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Read this: Carolyn McCall, boss of ITV

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Carolyn McCall, boss of ITV…

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts from BBC radio one of the most interesting and important institutions not Justin British Media but in Britain itself with formats soaps and dramas watched by millions provides glue that binds our culture and energy that drives our Ministries but what a time to be an Advertiser funded business with a public service remit terrifying competition from the richest companies in human history a regulatory framework that most people agree out-of-date and delivering public service in an era of cultural and that's before you chuck a pandemic in it's quite an instrument belongs to the chief executive officer of ITV she has six TV channel a global Studios business a streaming service in ITV hub and britbox to manage nevermind the latest plot twist on Corrie fancy joins.

We now carry welcome to the media show.

How are you very good to have you with us and appreciate your busy.

So thank you for giving up big chunky of time we going to send that I'm talking about a TV in your leadership there, but you have had this way now.

You have had a rather remarkable at life and career before ITV and not Justin Media people with no that the possibility was born in Bangalore and raisin Singapore how can morning bangle and raised in India and then I did my GCSEs in Singapore and then I came to Matlock to a Convent in Derbyshire so a very hard quote on my dad.

My dad works mother's family have lots of fun have been in India for many years so I have a link with India and Singapore as well.

I went to school to do my GCSEs when I was 15 pattern amongst the various leading global ceo's that we've had on the show from Bognor to Arundel to Tony which is when they are grown up there watching huge amounts of usually British or American TV

And then it became very nostalgic about it and then they have been media companies in try to recreate that stuff so if you're going up as a teenager in India this itinerant lifestyle and then Singapore what were you watching remember when my mum and dad were fortunate to get one of first TVs in Bombay as it was then and it was a tiny black and white box set and everybody in our house.

It was just unbelievable was like a theatre and I remember that tiny.

I was really young and I remember that day and remember that kind of deal are used to watch on the load of American shows in Singapore actually and hardly any TV in India was a really big deal all the way through my family's life and my grandmother my great-grandparents listen to world service in India a lot which is still an amazing service.

We forget sometimes so nice brought up and a lot of American shows.

Very sensitive that's why I leave the classrooms the word of advertising's you did I didn't really I left the classroom cuz was kind of laying off a load of brilliant teachers and giving teachers like me a job.

No really anything about teaching and it was a really horrible thing to witness and I just thought this is a mugs game.

I'm going to be one of those teachers saying you know so I then went into research.

I work for a company when I did my master's degree in politics aside it part-time and then I thought all of them a man you need some do you need to be a civil engineer to get anywhere in Costa in and then I got I applied as a researcher and that was what's my media careers within three months of being at the Guardian that's what I wanted to do.

I didn't really know that much about the medium.

I just loved it.

I love it was America see it allows you to do so many different things I was involved in so many different things there was no real.

Hierarchy was very very flat and I just loved it.

I mean, it's a long time since you left the Guardian where you eventually see you and it's currents if you can it's 10 years since you were there and there are similarities on there within the challenges that the Guardian face is now on ITV face and one question that goes I have for you about that similarities by the time you left the Guardian in 2010.

Did you have a nagging sense that relying on digital advertising a loan which is tricky with no way to find modern Media was started quite a lot of the digital stuff at the Guardian I'm in Ireland limited as it was cold and which was a digital version of the Guardian I remember thinking this has to be about users of the internet not about the print version straight on that sounds really basic today.

It really wasn't basic then people would just putting up their magazine straight online although their papers and I remember starting in 1993 something or

Classified advertising service that was a long time ago and I think the reason I was digitally aware, so early is that I was lucky enough to be involved with wired launched in the UK with a team of people here and I can was exposed there for two that thinking at a very very early stage in my career was very lucky was one of those and I absorbed I was like a sponge.

I just learnt so I was very digital very early Amazon you know the internet.

I was on email and 93 you know and that was a lot of people are not and and so I always knew the digital advertising was going to be an important piece of what we were going to do always but classified was important display was in the display was important, but I always knew subscription was gonna be important to Nigeria remember having massive debates with to keep people at the Guardian about making Media

Pay for service because it was a really Everyone in media.

Would look at me to garden and I wanted that to be a pay for service as a trial but really the editorial team they really do that.

They really really didn't because the whole thing about the Guardian is a bit like BBC is about universality.

It's about getting it to his many people as possible the timer for most sex.

I was one of those guys who take me to Gardiner probably what ITV mostly but I read me The Guardian excessively pretty couldn't afford it back then but I remember the 2010 everyone saying it was very strong for you within the Guardian that people won't pay for stuff online is just we're saying that we have definitely Park that debate having we know now that people will be the reason that I always believe they wouldn't pay necessarily for news online because we are very well and dad that news on the BBC is competitor to anyone who was charged for news online right.

I mean it's just an obvious thing but they will pay for specialist content that has been proved over to my media will specialist it was a nation it was.

And so that was my break, so I always believed.

It was going to be a mixed economy of funding it was never going to be only about advertising when it was digital or not successful and long-range forces easyJet very different business different people different challenges, what's the most useful thing you learnt that easyJet in preparation for ITV Accelerate that digital transformation that is just so even though it was a digital business.


There was no paper.

There was still so much that was reliant on processes and not making things easy for people to work there and so on so you know it is interesting that the app for easyJet was only created in 2011 at 2012 and I I brought that in Whitby stuffy, and we've made it a world-leading app and be airline industry will say that is amazing but we learn from everyone.

Sometimes it's not so bad.

You know we were fast followers, so it's quite slow following that so, what did I learn? I learnt a lot about customers and I have always been a customer-centric but it really mattered.

You know my 8-years that was the transformation was it was about being a customer-focused organisation and getting everyone to believe in the benefits of that I believed in digital wholeheartedly that digital makes everything easier whether it's the back office or whether it's how you deal with customers, but you need to humour is the front end of if you're dealing with customers, they don't like speaking to robots right.

So there's there was a lot of learning and you know what I also really learnt in massively out a lot.

Are you go to all the bases? I see all the crew and I loved that bit of my job and I love that ITV because I believe you only really know what's going on when you get out and about you.

Actually doing the jobs were no ITV is first in terms of content.

What do you consider to be the Crown Jewels of the ITV schedule Kelly we do national and regional news.

I think the Crown jewel Frost actually regional news.

I know national news is brilliant.

We got it.

We do it very well.

Just as you do, but I think regional news as well ITV Excel it is passed the community it takes a huge seriously and invest 78 million quid doing that really really well and the feedback we get is amazing entertainment.

I mean ITV does entertainment.

I think obviously better than anybody else.

It is about massive audiences.

You know we regularly get

Big Show's BGT 11 million Saturday Night Takeaway 11-12 million I'm a Celebrity 12 million 4 million miles 78 million brilliant.

We know how to bring shows to screen entertain people and then actually build the success of those shows drama strong.

I know looks BBC and ITV now we collaborate a lot now, but we also competitive when it comes to dramas.

We've got 4 out of the 5 top dramas, which is amazing.

You know des quiz Pembrokeshire murders.

So you know it's very proud of that so sport when we do sports and we often do it with the BBC actually which is a benefit being PSV and getting listed events the euros for instance.

Are we doing amazingly the World Cop 26 27 million people watching England game Uno live amazing that still happens on TV

Entertainment we do yeah, I would say what you know those the things those are crowns yours and I think we do this really well one of things I have mentioned as the soaps.

I think they are very important.

Tell you why not just because they entertain but because I think they really fulfill this thing about the public good because they are soaps we can often do what psvr supposed to do which is we inform and educate but in a very subtle way, so when you look at Emmerdale and the Down's syndrome story which has got so much so much noise around it.

It is about forcing people to think about some of the stigma around that and we responded to every single email.

We've had on that but it's really created to debate whether that's having sexuality gay marriage whatever the issue.

You have we done so many serious issues through the soaps child abuse grooming.

Societal issues and I think you know what we do really well is in a very subtle way we we are able to connect and help people so we're actually not just reflecting si covid-19.

It's not possible to film auditions how you going to feel the schedule and the hole in your address you got something lined up and running in a do tennis.

What will you got lined up? I can't I would get like honestly I get killed so I can't but we have got something lined up which is which I think will be fantastic annotation based competition show.

Globally and because of travel we just couldn't do it that will come back BGT will be back next year.

There's no question about that.

So it is just a postponement to be about this before but I've come received 24000 or just a bit more complaint about a protest related to Black lives matter and you subsequently signed off and put out an advert Express in solidarity with Helen rather than taking a position on black lives matter.

Why did you do that because we thought it was very important to back our Talents on that and also because I think what they were doing is they were they creatively expressing diversity of the show and if you see the show you know it is a very diverse show and it has a very important moments back our Talents and you know it is true that what you're watching the emotions that are created the things that you remember all those moments on TV and so it was important for us to do that and you know there was so much so so

It was just horrible for those people involved.

It was really nasty and we felt we had to broadcast come out sport that show and the social media doesn't reflect actual opinion remember that it's a very important point this if you try and run your business on what you see on social media initially you will be making the wrong decision because actually it is Sophie bright and so loud and so kind of explosive to begin with actually if you put it in the rounds you then get a much much of a mobile as picture.

What is really so many people react to social media immediately for journalist and makes you think that's actually what people talking about.

Where's if they went out onto the streets of my people talk about different stuff that a lot of national institutions ITV certainly one of those faces kind of dilemma in trying to reconcile a bit of a generational divide often often to stereotype too much more often older audiences.

You don't always turn up.

Sam causes and younger viewers you feel very passionately about them not least because they're on social media.

How did you try the CEO to reconcile the Heartlands who watching Corrie with generation Z yeah? I think it's the big issue for for all you know do we call ourselves anymore.

I don't know I mean but I think to distinguish from streamers because we do streaming as well and we do on Demand as well.

So it this whole area look the benefit.

We have unlike print which you refer to is the prince decision for consumers is substitutional you are you don't can you speak but you go digital right for TV everything is coming through TV ok some people use their laptops and iPads but it's tiny compared to the bulk of people that lots of you through TV set so all content now is coming through TV so that means you know how you're watching then what you have to do.

I think it's really really thank you.

Through how you attract those under 25 aside say actually there.

It's really the 16-25.

How do you attract them to content that you know they will love in different way to the wave marketing before I think the content and the marketing has got to be very targeted to what is really in there and in bed kind of raid off now as a PSV you also have a duty to make sure that they're watching your news right now.

They're not going to watch the 10:00 news so to do as we've just looked we launched about a year ago something for the rundown which is a very snappy headlines of the news with very young kind of quite very cool presenters actually and we put a we put them out on every social media channel and we promote it to ITV News so it's actually doing really well, and it is capturing under 25s.

So it's a way of Us

Repackaging what we already do trusted reliable news well resourced by great journalist and bring it out in a different format which is going to pull people in so we have to work much much much harder to get back about the distribution and I would have come onto the bigger picture, but I mean more or most of the controversial aspects of our culture and the fact that on something like black lives matter in a time of polarization fibre reviews on social media hard for a national broadcaster to represent all shades of opinion, so how to use a CO2 try to thread that needed to try to ensure that your stay out with your talent in your back and fully but you're not disenfranchising people who see a protest on Britain's Got Talent think that's not entertainment TV is meant to be about we are good at that.

I think that's what we do.

You know our role is to be you know as balanced as we possibly can be and to reflect as many views as we can say.

Good Morning Britain is very good example of this action which is we get a lot of people saying you know he has dropped off mad because you so opinionated he has an opinion but Susanna balances and we have lots of other people on that show that have a different opinion to peers and that's how you tried that line.

That's how we do it.

That's why we don't fall foul of the regulation look highly regulated industry as you know and we don't we can't really put a foot wrong and that's right.

That's how it should be that's how we do it and would you just taking without consent for a moment what you say to those people that me but this is a sentence of our listeners on the show have the in pursuit of popularity channels that ITV1 in particular have to go down Market the spectacle of seeing sweaty cheese eating yellow ostrich testicles whether it might be on prime time.

It's not it's not million viewers.

Popularity and you need to say advertising against that and to your credit you do in life, but that's not what a culture should celebrate many Fast and I think you know you know one of the Brilliant Things TV does not just my TV is that it is always involved people in the public right right from the 50s public participation has been a really really important part of TV and the public love it.

She was loved it and so my answer to that is we do a whole range of Culture we do have a read if you want to watch top drama you going to find out on BBC and ITV if you want to watch Big Poppa entertainment shows family shows like Saturday Night Takeaway you gonna find it on ITV and if you want to watch I'm a Celebrity you're going to watch it because it's riveting and it's fun and fantastic on it, so there's something for everybody and I think it's wrong to say that bit of our culture is not as good as that.

Releases everything we need more of it rather than that.

I'm not with you as you know I'm in partial imagine one of the hardest moment your 10-year has been the question of the Jeremy Kyle is Lucas getting on into the death of a former contestant and for obvious reasons.

I don't get into any specific details about that.

Why did you cancel that show be cancelled because actually felt that there was we had we would we did our own look at it.

It was probably something we were looking out anyway to be honest with you and I didn't we made the decision because because we felt in that it was the right thing to do just that it was felt the right thing to do and that doesn't mean to say that they did anything wrong on the show it just felt that give him what happened.

Thought it was the right decision to take the early had a briefing around that came from Jeremy Kyle coming back to ITV in a different role, is he coming back to ITV

Not that I know what I mean.

I don't know what the plans are but not that I know of at the moment.

I mean Jeremy will certainly do lots of other stuff again.

I'm sure he will not just on ITV but there are no plans at the moment another chance your face which she gave evidence to select committee follow the death of some former contestants from love Island again for this reason.

I'm not getting any details but what did you mean by extension ITV learn from the events so I think the thing is the first thing is a lot of people in production knew there were two individuals that have been highlighted obviously in the impressed a lot you know personally and they were you know the dentist and as you would be just as you know.

It's a horrible thing to happen.

You know the procedures and processes and the duty of care that we we have literally it's world-class now.

I know that we have strengthened ban.

Wasn't doing that well in the past.

It's just simply because social media has genuinely intensified what happens on a show where someone is out of the limelight for 6-weeks goes in quite well known maybe but not really but then and then comes out with thousands hundreds of thousands of Instagram followers or whatever it might be it's a big shit and we've done a lot of work on casting on what happens in the show but also on the aftercare so we've been forensic about it, but particularly through the lens of social media and what will they will explain when they come out of the show that you've got children you know do you feel hesitant about the fact that the business you run is part of a good real part of a culture in which a lot of normal people really want to be famous.

They really believe in getting likes on Instagram followers on Snapchat or Twitter where we might be and the pursuit of fame.

Is really dark side and it's a small way love Island is part of that DarkSide look.

I think lots of programs can be you know that you can put a lot of programs into and you can have done that for the last two years actually it's not the recent phenomena is genuinely the social media echo chamber of the trolling and the kind of intensity the scrutiny and intensity people get I think what we have to do is ensure that people go in fully prepared with their eyes open that's what we do.

We get a lot of previous contestants to explain exactly what it's going to be like Dr Alex brinson.

Could go we'll go on and say this is what I experienced other people will say I was trolled because I had xy&z.

So you have to fully prepare and you have to make sure they are really bringing consenting to this as adults and they really want to do it and that a lot of people have fantastic experiences on all of these shows.

Things that will get the most attention, is is when they don't have a fantastic experience when something goes wrong and of course people's lives are complex.

It's not always just about the show or any show it's about what they're singing their whole life and do it be will be coming back it.

Will it be filled in the UK this year don't know it's been for a little while we didn't do it last summer so we want it and you know we're getting you know when looking at all our options at the moment because I think pandemic makes it hard of course.

Let's talk about your imagine and please tell me if I'm wrong but your picture the job was the ITV needs to ride several different horses, so you going to keep the linear channel going to Mostly found in advertising funded.

We've also developed a really strong and be a production powerhouse in ITV Studios with hit me formats.

You can tell around the world how much of the business now comes from those II

Legs if you like from the production from a digital from the digital viewing so I didn't you know I look I went through a rigorous process, but I was not looking for that to be honest.

I was really I was very happy at easyJet and I thought after easyJet I will just sit back for a bit and reflect so the thing that appeal to me about is it total transformation about to be you know it is a digital transformation story really because we know that in the next decade more movie was going to watch different iptv is on stream right, so the internet is going to be a delivery mechanism.

I hope we come back to that and I hope you have time to talk about the massive implications to public service broadcasters, so for me.

It was like we are so strong has got such a huge presence in the

How do we make that transition that is as strong and what it does and tribes in the digital world so it's not just transforming your means a distribution.

It's about your content.

It is about how you monetize that content it is about your mindset and the culture of the organisation tilting to the Future so that's what appeal to me so right.

You know it was about transforming particularly the broadcom what we were calling the broadcaster vision which we now call media and entertainment it was focusing on demands.

It was doing the Hub much much better putting much more on making it much more destination than a catch up service which in the middle off.

It was trying to get britbox off the ground so to do a streaming service we got all the public service broadcasters together so Channel 4 Channel 5 BBC iTV as one multi series box sets in one place that was quite a tough thing to get off the ground.

G2r experience of subscriptions, we are the local subscription-based streaming service in the UK and that's a good position to have when you got your all of those other strimmer with all of their global content coming in the communications act 2003 which are campaigning to have reform do we get into the handbrake box just before we do that.

I love finding out.

Have you got so when you say you weren't looking for a job who called you was it Peter bazalgette? Was it headhunter headhunter and then it was Peter Bassett and what do you say DMG days when he was at come and have a coffee and you didn't tell you upfront that he was looking for a new CEO but he dropped.

What do well at the moment in terms of the format for selling to other countries ITV Studios business.

Obviously must be hit by covid but which of your format to making a lot of money.

I'm a Celebrity does hugely well everywhere, so does love Island actually does very well globally game show The Chase so my god.

This is so popular in America now.

So lots of drama.

So when you came in to do transformation.

Obviously it's been hit mastery by the pandemic, which it's both production and advertising sales, but how effective has that transformation been how much have you been able to grow the production business and digital pandemic the business would have grown between 3 and 5% the margins for strong between 14 and 16% We doing very very well and production of businesses and business and it's probably the second biggest Unscripted producer in the world.

I mean it's a massive business, so it and it and it has its quality.

It's got a quality pipeline.

And you asking question about Revenue and profit.

It is probably half the revenue that we have but it's a bit less on the profit because the linear business the broadcasters higher margins, but it is 50% of really big progress by to be that that means we really diversified so I would say we are launching britbox resetting the Hub building a data which we didn't have at all.

We have one person who did Analytics in in ITV3 years ago.

That has been a big thing really developing Altec platforms, which we've done to launch britbox.

Which is big big progress has been made.

I should already on translation, but we've obviously got more to do and I think one of the it.

There's not many Silver Linings of her a pandemic, but one thing it's done.

Is it because it's accelerated everything including digital it has absolutely accelerated on drive.

Towards the strategy says made us much faster.

We make faster decisions.

We do things quicker when much more agile.

Everyone gets it because everyone has had to work now very different way, so that's quite a positive that we will take out of this so I mention this thing good communications act 2003 which nerves let me have have read you want it updated and your campaigning loudly for primary legislation to replace it.

Why ok look we've just talked about fat and within the next decade TV will be distributed on the internet not TT which is terrestrial at the moment that means the internet memes global platforms.

It doesn't mean we can distribute in any other way means our distribution via Amazon apple sky virgin all of those massive global platforms and

Samsung all the manufacturers it would that's where the distribution is now or at now and is going to grow exponentially in the future that means that we are totally Reliant as psbs on our distribution on massive global dominated companies whose interest is to make their shareholders for the public good not for Britain it's and in the old world or in the mini world.

We all have prominence that is guaranteed in law that if your BBC iTV Channel 4 transfer you are seen in the top listings so that when you come to your tea, you know you can see what's on BBC and ITV and Channel 4 you just see it because you've got problems and you have to be included and you have to get some fair value for your content because you give it.

In the digital world none of axis, there is no there is no regulation and digital world.

They don't have to carry PSP if they don't want to as channels.

They don't have to give you a prominent.

So you can imagine a words where any any global platform will charge for the tiles with Tuesday on your TV now instead of your EPG electronic program guide your charge.

Maybe the hospital.

They say will give this to the bitter PSP won't be able to afford that and then you'll have to have some fair value.

You know the terms of reference the terms of trade have to be that you can't be dominated but you can't be taking advantage of just because your PSV and you can't afford to to demand what you want what you're saying for everything to do with the invocation of what is that we have immediate Media ecosystem, which has the wrong people in charge and I pointed out on this show before that we had his extraordinary situation is some local newspapers in Britain and now doing the parts rural Brit

Depending on the largesse of California tech Giants to give you a few charitable donations you know so people in California making decisions about parts of Little Britain that I've never been to the boss of ITV is saying to us here that we need primary legislation in this country to force Californian companies to give a little bit more Edge to a public service broadcaster, but it can be fixed we can I mean the interesting thing here.

I think is gonna come out very clearly and their records and they are the regulator they're completely objective and they've said the PSP provide public value the public ordinary people really value the PSPs they won't stream as well, but they don't want to lose Public Service Broadcasting all the things entertainment news all the things we do that are by Boris and about us right about Britain with all its diversity.

They don't want to lose that and so the

Come out and we need for government to add with urgency.

This is not a local newspaper.

You know honestly I worked do you have local newspapers and I remember the pain of that transition trying to do local TV trying to do I mean it was a nightmare.

We have to change the 2000s require legislation and the government it's in their control.

We've spoken in the public have spoken and said they value this and I know the government they have so values.

What's the BBC iTV Channel 4 and Channel had it done no Miss information trusted reliable information on the pandemic about information may be used as a platform to communicate themselves because they know it is going to get direct me to viewers viewers going to believe it.

I'm like what you

Look at what's happened in terms of the information information about the vaccine message to them about her urgent this issue a problem cease and the consequences of inaction government is bigger than teasing as this is a message really I think long term which is if you don't act with urgency and paste this ship will also sell we are not protected in any way just as we shouldn't be asking for favours protect the past we're asking to modernize and that was before Amazon and Facebook even existed having Facebook crash so it needs to be more.

Nice has to be updated to see how serious the situation is an urgent situation is and it is in their hands.

So there is something that can be done about it, but have to ask you mention the distinction between the quality of impartial news and social media tells that the calibre and the trustworthiness of the information there what you just here in your words.

What would you say is the case for regulated broadcast news of the car.

We have in the UK which isn't nearly as opinionated as stuffed on social media or indeed as a stuff on us cable news.

I mean we are regulated and we should be regulated.

I think it's really this is why we have such strong new services in this country.

I think they will have a different.

They have a different tone.

They have a different style you know if you compare what you do at the BBC to ITV News it's different but it has one thing.

Which is in common with all PSP is and that is it well resourced.

It's strange journalist it tries really really hard to do everything with me and impartiality it tries.

Very hard doesn't always get it right, but it tries really hard and that trigger is really using look at all the stuff.

That's gone on with election interference on threats in terms of security and kind of intervention is actually bigger many nuclear.

I mean actually this the digital world where it's all going to be down.

There is GB news a threat to that fragile ecosystem outside Ofcom regulations going to have to stick to boundaries right on news is it's going to be professionally run organisation and it's going to shake things up.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that because

What you say about what's going on social media is very very important such as a couple of times not to assume that social media reflect public opinion, but we're talking in the week that some people are pushing for a kind of creepy Boycott of GB new don't advertise with with BBC news TV news.

Don't spend cash there.

I don't over-egg this is really enjoying the publicity but what do you make of a campaign to stop advertising on a channel that hasn't launched? I don't agree with that really because I think that's a bit.

It's cancel culture that cancelled things that you don't like and you might like what you been used says or does or if it's working within a where they are regulated by Ofcom they are speaking to buy Uno rules broadcasting rules they have a right to to broadcast and just on the problem which gu2 be the solution to this weekend and you know it's going to be a cheering presenter on that channel wrote a piece of sun Express he said he came at the direction of news debate in Britain is increasingly woke and out.

Touch with the majority of its people and national conversation is become to metropolitan to Southern and to middle-class is that it wasn't talking about ITV cuz the one thing I will say unequivocally is that are our original news is not metropolitan anyway, and it is not London century can anyway so she talk to anybody and any borage and we have enough so we have double digit numbers of Regent's we do something like 18 live regional news shows a day right.

So it's huge.

So I I don't think that and I also think you look at our daytime programming does rigorous and very debate has already touched on a danger in redefining impartiality as balance you mentioned Piers Morgan is selfie mentioned on his show he's a big star for you.

He's a ratings winner generates new generator noise and away and social media this week.

He called the prime minister dithering and shameful, Watson

It's part of a balance program, but that's impossible to start the same thing is there a danger in the leak from impartiality to balance definitions of two different words mean that they mean different things that Ofcom too and I think he will be judged on impartiality and it will and the mitigation is often balance right so if you are stating an opinion you get balance now that doesn't mean anyone who was working to BBC and ITV can step out of line on because they will get rats out of common.

They will be there will be a consequence that so I think that's a very big discussion.

You know the impartiality of time and I want to talk about britbox because it's it's a bigger then you said at the Brit box is the biggest risk that you've taken it ITV you know you don't know ITV controls the platform.

A partners why was it the biggest risk is only presuming the races at your work with a partner in the BBC that has a completely different model to you.

That is why did you take that risk, but that's not the only risk so I think they're a number is one is I'll be up too honest.

I think it should have been done years ago, but I really do I mean I think it was it's been late in so when you delays something that long you're you're on your slightly back fitters.

I think the second is financial you have to put a lot of money into any streaming service to make it work the 3rd risk is different models actually right so particularly between BBC and ITV incredibly well very very constructive we both wanted to work.

It's actually doing brilliantly internationally it's doing well.

It's on plan in the UK is doing really well international we just

Is in profits is far exceeded? It's target to do 1.8 million subscriptions there.

We've just rushing Australia it's doing very well already and Australia the next market will announce the next couple of weeks now.

Can't tell you now, but if I guessed correctly would you tell us in France are you can go on can you just get out explained Jaipur exhausted listening.

Who's heard so much about new streaming services.

We are JB Perrette on last week's bottle Discovery talking about their new offer.

Why do you need your own? Why do you why do you need your own app for this content? Why wouldn't carry macaws you think I've got this great production school spitting image and sell it to Netflix and I'm going to make loads of money for sale rather than customer relationship like the one you wanted britbox different Pillars for your future strategy.

I just don't think one pillar is going to do it and I think.

Not in production we do some amazing shows for Netflix you know in the States we we do a lot of shows Netflix and Amazon and for Apple but that's one business and that kind of business to business model.

We it is very important for us to have Direct customer links.

It's it is going to be more of the future more more about the future and in addition now.

You know you and I remember time where people wouldn't pay for anything now people will have seven or eight subscriptions in their household very and they're willing to pay and I'm currently you know a lot of people are willing to pay for britbox in addition to Netflix they see as complementary our research says that and I think having a local streaming service where you can get all the Marty series box set all in one place from whenever so strong archive Service with some Originals is actually good can.

Proposition and that's how that's how it's researched.

It's a good consumer proposition the global stream.

Can't be working relationship in the states of course you're working unless you turn it all the former boss of the BBC that was obviously strumentale to that product just tell me about it.

Where did you guys? Where did you go to meet his products Ashdown over dinner at the walls the side hustles at TV festival no look don't he was very important, but so was Tim Davie and so with the team Charlotte and others have BBC so very diplomatic what I want is gossip what I want.

I want this could not have happened without Tim Davie and with Tony Hall and actually so and from my end this would not have happened without Kevin lygo and without you know.

Who work for both BBC and ITV so because I was doing the international that I'm not let you know just being generous later.

I'm just saying this is what happened and yes, you know my uncle's was to Tony Hall obviously you know what to say, what happened with this brick box thing and it was about happened 5 years ago, then it stopped does the real story.

Thank you for responding to my question with answer.

I read in the Sunday papers that there could be in another streaming service launched by British broadcasters.

What's that I do know I don't think that's right.

I think you might be referring to is being on a next-generation platform basically were all the broadcasters will be in one place and and nothing has been about whether it be.

You know one gateway toll having this is all about this is about Freeview I think you're referring to yeah sure so what would be even though it's very.

What's the thing is out of Freeview it allows the Channel 5 to come in and that's still with Ofcom by the way and DNA I think it might be but it's only with Ofcom that allows you to have a platform to be effective One website or one app.

Where are all the public service broadcasters can be delivered rather just for your TV at the moment all of them will be available on Freeview and and and that will be developed quite considerably.

I think we'll put quite a lot more attention and focus on that going forward, so that is a big pretty pretty one idea that you very much.

Xx xxi idea ITV include Studios of course which is big multinational production and distribution company it was my TV studios.

Company that made the Bodyguard which was a BBC thriller starring Keeley Hawes huge huge hit and that became the BBC's most most watched drama for 10-years.

What are the upsides and downsides to you the model that sees you help in the competition which is fantastic and it's a wind v-studio because they made you know it's brilliant, but it was made by one of our one of the companies within the group fighting.

That's a win-win doesn't bother me that the BBC degree.


I want the BBC to do really well, you know what's happening with the digital world is less women for some reasons that you've outlined YouTube because YouTube announced last week that they had revenues for the last quarter shut up 46% No that would have been at the expense of TV channels around the world.

Increasing moving online as you articulated one response to that could be for traditional broadcasters to join forces and this is something x talking about when we spoke to him last summer he thought they cancelling the UK broadcasters might be part of the answer and he actually quite advanced discussions.

I think you put Channel 4 and Channel 5 is that something you would consider it something you're looking at a murderer Channel 4 Channel 5 so that's not something on the cards at the moment.

I don't think because we are all we have very different ownership structures as you know where public company and swearing by shareholders, so we that's that's the reason is it's a coin brilliant to what we do Channel 4 owned by viacom very very different so I can see the consolidation, but would have to be a very very large-scale to do what you're trying to say which is complete with YouTuber I think YouTube I think that's looking at.

Different way, I think YouTube does what it does.

It's user generated content you only have to watch a tiny amount of an ad on YouTube to be counted as a viewer I'm like which has a very robust gold standard measurement we have to watch the whole add.

Otherwise we give the money back right so I honestly believe but what YouTube is one thing what TV doesn't answer is a different thing in terms of advertising and clients are becoming much much more aware of the differences and how to use one and the other it's not I'm not sure consolidation really helps you with the YouTube problem because I think YouTube is a very specific user generated millions and millions and millions of tiny bits of stuff it does what it does well.

It's not what we do.

That's fascinating.

Thank you.

That's turned finally two people.

I know people have been a big focus of your

10-year ITV's big focus of your response the pandemic that you notorious Lee when your boss of easyJet with I think it's called the gash where you would clear out the rubbish imany of flight is the way of getting to know the people you work with and widely lauded let your winning quite a few Awards one group of Media workers in particular has had an appalling time over the past year and that freelancers.

What have you done person was ITV done to look after freelancers are the most vulnerable with the industry industry is full of 3 lancets and we all use them and it's the way we can keep Productions productions are the Thailand you know you need farm and then you don't so it's I think it's when this pandemic hit in March Martin Lewis helped us as you know Martin Lewis does he's is frequently not daytime programs.

He helped us campaign to the treasure.

That we could follow freelancers who had just left so they were able to benefit from following which they wouldn't have been allowed to do they have been out in the cold example of what we would do.

I mean we do our really aware of it.

We are we try very hard to look after freelancers.

I think they like working for us when they work for us and we just developed a digital platform actually called freak on where we have all of our freelancers on there and so if they won't work they can come to us and log into that and if we want them to come back so quickly we can read some very quickly as we now have all their data in a very easy access when I would never had that before I think that helps as well.

I think your freelancers just want to work.

They want to keep that useful information for the freelancers listening to the show there is also a lot of talk around in the industry that have been calling me up in a concern about bullying and the past couple of weeks with her dedication to brilliant behind the scenes on some TV production.

Bectu the broadcasters Union Close bullying is a widespread issue, and they're trying to forward set up a hotline for staff including freelancers and a you've done.

I think it's a weekly podcast during the pandemic 12-week and their concerns.

What did you make a what channel 4 did that hotline and you considering one ITV maybe we've always had a hotline so we have a long time and I'm very coming in especially working for an airline wear a hotline is really really important.

Is is I work very closely with my HR director to make sure that everyone knows about the hotline and how they can access it doesn't let me use it there.

Will you get some of that yeah, but it's not freaking but I want to just make sure that everyone knows they can speaker and they can do it anonymously that's the most important not going to go to the hr manager or they're not going to go to the producer.

They're just not going to do that if they're feeling bad about something all they want to complain they need to do it anonymously and they need to.

Through a channel that is not you know the the work channel is that happening at the moment ITV but I would know if it was serious right if there is something that was we would be there was something serious.

I would know about it and there isn't anything but every company and I sit on a couple of other things and I would say that every company will be getting people saying not feeling great about this.

I don't know whether I want to come into work.

You know do I have to my managers saying I do etc etc.

It's everywhere.

It's going to be everywhere really important to me that people feel confident that they're not going to get into any trouble for speaking up.

I've always felt that I felt that in every company I've ever worked for and I want to be accessible.

I want people to be able to say this is a culture that doesn't mind if you speak up.

I would get told off vigorously by every member the production team on this show which there are not many I was that every member of my family if I didn't ask you that Agatha Christie

ITV with the highwomen Agatha Christie adaptations for a long time is there any chance of pyro Marple I don't want to let you down so let me find out looking through which is very much.

It's really brilliant apparently final question when you got a new game show coming out this spring she's fronted by Ian Wright equality and you press it hard when you're easyJet.

Why so few ITV game show presented by women you know why did you ask sweet talked about that just yesterday.

Cos I didn't inclusion diversity very good sources.

We have all the networks represented and that came up and we said we gotta fix that I don't know the answer to that to be honest you so we looked at that we said there are a couple of real weaknesses because we've actually made a lot of Pro

We really have and we should I mean we needed to make progress on screen, but I don't know the answer and so they've gone off to find out and and talk commissioner's thank you very much indeed for your time appreciate it.

Thank you so much for joining me and thank you.

Also to say Hockley Today studio engineer.

Are we back at the same time next week.

Thanks for listening and goodbye.

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