Read this: Is the UK media obsessed with Westminster?

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts from BBC Radio 4 rocket going on in Holyrood it's salmon vs surgeon for the future of Scottish nationalism perhaps Scotland and maybe even the United Kingdom also says the media is generally seem to be finding the story difficult to follow colonists are proclaiming their confusion news networks are mislabelling prominent Scottish politicians is British Media just to Westminster abscess to cover national politics properly returning as a TV channel.

Yes 6 years after you went online only a clever ploy at the television to win back younger viewers or a desperate attempt to compete with those streaming Giants we may have mentioned one or two times on the show let me introduce you to guess Stuart Murphy was the controller of BBC

it launched in 2003 is now the chief executive of the English National Opera lyra, O'Reilly is media editor at Insider formerly known as Business Insider recalls teddy night is fully focused that's a production company which is behind the new BBC3 comedy PRU or PRU Moore from them in a moment later in the show will be frank O'Donnell is the editor-in-chief of DC Thomson newspaper DC Thomson's newspapers in Aberdeenshire that's including the Press and Journal and evening Express before that he was editor of the Scots with no less and Callum bed is editor of The National the Scottish paper launched in 2014 welcome to all new you must have one screen on this zoom call and then and by the way I'm using cells and you're speaking screen on this phone call and another fixed on a livestream from Holyrood

On and on and on and down a few rabbit holes and I'm going over the same ground over and over again.

I think the watching Alex Hammond's evidence last week.

I think you can you can tell why these two people have been such significant figures in Scottish and UK politics of the last 10-years because they are both really accomplished the list and and no question is probably got the better of you so far like yourself will come and sit in a bit Frank O'Donnell every local paper share of business personalities golf course and hotelier on your patch to ask you what has Donald Trump that's it has Donald Trump provide you with any good.

Copy these last year's a lot of good.

Copy of last year's at absolutely.

Yeah, there's a huge interest I think in trump because he wins the golf courses in Aberdeen

And that continues to be the case, I think possibly The PJs got yourself into a bit of bother before with it stands on on whether it's for these golf courses are does it get about that does he care about I know about Fox News just Donald Trump care what the present owner has to say about his golf course yes pretty true that he phoned up a lot of times.

He phoned up the news there supposed to not only the PJ bit and my old job at The Sportsman he would phone up journalist directly at that point to make sure that they were properly breathe and then you was going onto yeah.

I think there's an element of does care.

It's not even what's happening in Scotland it's not good to have you with us.

Let's start with the news that BBC3 is returning broadcast TV channel next year subject to approval by the regulator at Laura O'Reilly Media Insider what's a rationale that the BBC presenting about bringing this back now.

Especially ever since BBC3 when online-only it's really pumped out hit after hit we have fleabag clingy this country, which I love drag race you play I mean normal people alone was requested to be watched something like 63 million times and I play as it does seem like the smartest strategy in media prevails, which is the Investment in original content so it's going to be refreshing to see a train from what was essentially the Family Guy repeats channel.

I'm being mean but I think the Sun from the BBC is it can rightfully deserve a channel based on all of this recent success in it.

It does seem like the previous decision to make it online only was a bit of a blunder the idea.

I suppose is that there are still people.

Would you believe it watching TV as it's aired on linear not as many as before but there's still an audience there.

There's some Bob data out there saying that 16 to 30.

What about an hour and 47 minutes of can a broadcaster TV which includes things like iPlayer and 4oD player and so on but just over half of that what's actually as live so there will be an hour taken off of them received.

It was CBBC my question is about what happens to BBC4 now not least as Sky Arts has moved to Freeview as well, so yeah, but remains to be seen how it's going to be thought thought about when it comes to the Excel spreadsheets back in 2003.

What's your assessment of its return think it's really good news.

I mean it's pretty hard trance on the TV channel in middle of the internet because so many options so for an audience that tend to be pretty lazy and quite like things come to them on a plate to sit back and watch on.

The TV channels amazing super was the worst decision when they took it online if I'm honest did you work the time running all the TV channels their head of BBC TV at the time phoned out of courtesy.

I just want you to know we're going to take it online.

That's where the emoji answers.

I said I think it's the biggest strategic mistake ever.

I'm delighted because why was it because you kind of flick through and then your pores on something in capsule in by mistake, so it captures the passive you and anti-system it allows you to do cross-promotion in the way that you just can't when it's online and I say things about the kind of reasoning philosophy which is people stumble across stuff.

They don't yet know they love cross promotional hammocking in the schedule when you put two big race ensures either side of known show a really really important ways to get audiences into something they didn't get no they love so to Britain in the kind of wilderness of online men.

It was only really proactive you as when found.

And hats off to BBC3 unbelievable hits working what you're saying Stewart and didn't know that this is working right this country normal people killing.

Eve rupaul's drag race pre which we going to talk about with teddy, II if it's working why change the strategies especially when more people going online so young people online you can work even better.

You know I think the approach the BBC is taken as you know we've got hit here.

That's super super sized to hit that's not just think it's working and trucking let's bring it more on BBC One late night as they have gone to her trust channel.

I look at what the BBC offers and if your 6-year old white guy in in Southern England your other catered for you have got BBC1 or BBC2 BBC 4 Radio 2 3 4 Radio 5 and lots of BBC News they're also the most vocal complainants so I think the tide has changed into Society and it's no longer just

List people in their 50s and 60s who can dominate what the media output should be and just licence fee payers and just needs to get young people paying licence fee to justify bringing universal thing before I bring 39 on that point.

Would you make a lara's assertion that this raises some questions about the future BBC Four or 3 and the older Channel 4 The Reason reason being if you call the young 13 and the older one for you.

Call a holder 13 and the younger 14.

It's it's easy to access the young one absolutely everyone and younger audiences at the moment.

Have a big shows on BBC One like EastEnders and Radio 1 and Radio 1Xtra cater for them but other than that does not lots for

4:25 on BBC hours apart from BBC Three ok what I've put the the point of view of consuming.

It's like this from the point of view of the producer teddy now.

This is presumably fantastic for you.

You're ready mate programs for including PRU for pupil referral unit is a comedy series about people referrals units that launched this week now your programs going to be a linear channel be realistic about this really is in your TV to your it's not as important as it would have been before everything went online order streamers that we have but I think that it still has a value definitely for production companies as well, so proud you know when we create something and it's on the TV on the mainstream, which I like this lot on BBC one that they have with BBC3 at the moment after 10 so late night colours.

Everything's financial difference to you think you'll be more money coming your way.

Yeah there should be because it's linear instead of digital soda budgets.

I should change it also it's their commitment to use quantum a which I think is is great because it's needed and I think that it can generate lots more great content that people want to see the event will be bringing people over but still have iPlayer and they'll still have delayed nice long.

It will be a Chinese telly, but if the point of BBC abuse of your programs like PRU is two eyeballs.

Why not go to wear those eyeballs off isn't tiktok or YouTube or Instagram where the BBC voting I'm glad you're laughing like I'm going to explain that laugh in the moment, but tell me why not going to be spending money on those platforms rather than a TV young people you can still hit all of those platforms up wearing a cross-platform world.

So when you create your campaigns to advertise if you just make sure you.

Everyone and then bring them over to where you want them to land said he said I mean you should already be there if your programming say younger people tiktok should already be in your marketing plans controller BBC3 the most treatments companies like Netflix would kill to have a linear channel available for production.

I'm reaching that traditional audience.

I guess this David there's a level of respect that comes with the linear channel.

They were there first at the end of the day and I think there's still nostalgia feeling towards them so I think having been able to offer both is is a good is a good overall offer.

People tend to miss miss understand what your audience is love and people think they're skittish and they only like short attention span TV they also thinking that they like really homegrown TV and it's it's not just that they love that in when it's appropriate.

They look at and Thrones that's completely involving cinematic standard of TV fleabag was was massively high production values really involving a new onston, but silly and reflective and it was complicated.

I think those outside that young audiences x characterize the audience is just wanted to YouTube stuff and they do at some point but also they love comedies like teddies and involving dramas and factual series as we seen on BBC2 you got extensive experience expertise evening in BBC Politics albeit from a different area you know you were there for the year of Gregg Die Hard is it just how hard do you think it's gonna be for the BBC now?

BBC3 while for example there's this huge uproar over the over 75s licence fee because the BBC's there to take things that work for the BBC and on politically so of expeditious things to say so they just focus on the audience first and foremost.

It's just easy you're trying to get the noise of a sum of the louder newspapers in the hard because it it doesn't sit well if you say older audiences have had this possible in the younger audiences other agencies consume all in a TV than younger audiences sit absolutely right the older audiences should pay why not they consume enormous amounts of TV they earn more proportionately the audiences suffer from huge amounts of unemployment they differ from a normal stress in terms of genders sexuality you know political.

Feeling disengage from the nation nationhood, I worry about the stress that younger audience is the BBC step in and and not just give them stuff and drama, but give them factual stuffing and help them make sense of the complicated world.

I can hear the Furious of our audience hear you right now Stewart and say how dare you say that such a thing about the old telephone interview on this subject.

We talk to me about BBC for those who haven't watched it.

You don't know what it's about.

You.

Don't know what these programs are on.

Just tell us what cruise about you next.

I'll which is a place where young people go to they've been expelled from school and I think that not a lot of people know like a lot of people even know the name pre or what it means so I think you're great opportunity to show that even some people who do know about the may have a negative Outlook on what they are actually they can be a place.

For many young people that mainstream school hasn't been a good fit for and having that smaller classes and having teacher.

They can give them more time and energy and you can go on and achieve great things so essentially we follow up for the characters and are all of the chaos that ensues.

Are you pleased with the Range you're getting so how's it going? Yeah? I mean who knows what the numbers are cos we don't have to wait about 30 days.

I think to find out but yeah the reviews have been good with that pic of the weeks and must watches and stars in different things across the board and the feedback we're getting from young people and people that have been to prove them people at school Dad you know been kicked out or not or just no people that have is that you going to get a bigger audience after this? Thank you so much.

Daddy stupid very briefly to restart the channel.

Should it repeat Little Britain

Personally, I think you should play things that younger audience is loving people like me a 49 year-old hate very nice worth let's go back to the question Nice where should it repeat Little Britain playtime Is Not Stupid Little Britain I don't comedy of the heart of comedy often involves offending some people and that's why people laugh and I think loads of Communities are strong enough and confident enough to laugh at themselves.

Personally as a gay dad.

I don't find the anti homosexual jokes in Little Britain offensive, but I can see how some people might be really offended.

I think it's made with love.

So they should probably repeat it someone who has to explain BBC Politics always told her to say BBC Politics 4matic Stuart thank you very much to events in Holyrood focus on the implications for the media rather than politics video we got to the most.

In Scotland on the show Callum Baird the national explicitly pro-independence it was founded by newsquest in 2014 why because of an imbalance opposing I think the daily original titles at the time and also getting it on 3837 neutral or a stance against independence and the one that did the Sunday Herald saw some great commercial success of the back of packing.

Yes, that was a company and the guy that was anything like that paper Richard Walker inspirational editor pitch the idea of the effects of taking out daily in Derbyshire non-commercial and we'll get the would you say to those critics of yours now if you not just a social with you say that you're essentially the in-house journal of the SNP

The cause of independence and the Independence movement is to bound up in the bottles of the SNP in an actually an assorted normal can of normal it might be the case that you don't have to a 3 parts which are actually pro-independence and then you can kind of a bit more of a balanced view, but it's actually believe the same thing so you think this is this is a lot who is Sam sturgeon drama at the moment.

They really can a smell blood hearing think that the way of damaging independence and Away of a halt to India to for another 5 years.

It is, can you give us an example of how you've given them really hard time in the way you have others who are against independence turn off on on things like land reform without the not independence.

Exists within Downing Street which actually is is complete building collapse new cabinet, where's the Independence unit in Hollywood that's why I said ok your towards mechanism Politics show and I can see why the moment with your long experience has got his present Scottish Media what would you say is the national since it launched nearly 7 years ago.

Tell me be closer to the same, but I think it's probably activated some people who had stopped reading mainstream Media I ain't giving them a home and give him a place to to look at and to reflect some of the reviews are there is R&R bodieve opinion that says the job of a newspaper is to confirm people's biases you will hear that and into an extension.

I suppose the national does that in a way that some other papers the other political views do so but

I suppose from me anything.

I suppose that engages people in what's going on around them has to be good thing and you look after another papers in Aberdeenshire Frank including the present invention the evening Express on the Aberdeen city, do they have a political stance know and completely independent and that was the case as well when I before when I was in my personal view.

It doesn't rhyme with with the history of the where is the I believe that we shouldn't be telling people to vote I I want to be challenged on the pages.

I want to I feel I succeed if someone turns over the page and reads an opinion and vehemently disagrees with it because even if they don't change the view at least the understand a little bit more where that person is coming from and I think the job of a newspaper The Challenge people and is to is to make people read things that make him feel uncomfortable because there's too much tribalism in society these days.

There's too many people who take stances and don't act of stop being curious.

Why people I disagree with you literally I want a range of yous personifying the case against Twitter I think about it.

Had the pleasure of looking on that particular public in trouble.

Is there a referendum on Independence Frank tomorrow would your favourite neutral then absolutely paying attention to the issues new store at the end of last week when Alex Salmond appeared at the enquiry at this current way that bass guys.

We made by london-based Media is your argument the prosecutor through stages that the UK media to Westminster obsessed to cover national politics properly in London that have been covering this and covering this for a long time.

Are they can a Scottish voice is so what within the UK media so people like Fraser Nelson Andrew Neil The Spectator have been kind of all over this case for.

Hasn't been much.

I would have said from from the rest of something like Alex Hammond's testimony happened last week and everybody suddenly switched on a ring up about the legal advice in judicial reviews and harassment policies and all these things that we've we've been talking about for quite some time Scotland historical lens bigger storage.

You actually think this family Aquarius really are your reader's that interested you think there's a case that some people making I'm not making this case.

Would you think some people saying that this story has been overhyped by the media? No, I think it is a huge story when you think about the proximity of the election which is coming in May when you think about the case for Indy ref 2 when you think about how important Nicola Sturgeon and Alex are tadacip.

What are the interesting debates people have is if a sturgeon wasn't they are who would be the next leader and there is your some argue.

There is a paucity of Talent behind.

So far ahead of the rest so I think from that point of view the implications for those individuals for the election and for independence and then constantly for the Union I don't know you cannot overstate.

How important is Callum's only when you look at the the web figures of people coming through that that that that is backed up by the ocean.

Sorry to hear that your assessment of her biggest stories.

It's issues completely agree with everything Frank is saying that is when it's involves two people seen at the SNP not tempted to take sod you must have great connections with Virgin and camp salmon, because my sense of people people like to categorise as there's a there's a starman companies in pain as a sturgeon can but my sins is actually that the much bigger camp is in the middle and just as always really kind of respected these two political heroes and it's just a bit sad about the whole thing but obviously.

Two accounts on either side that are very vocal so it's just a case of telling it straight reporting the news doing a really good job done with other job on it, but not gonna have you spoken to the bus station in the past few weeks.

I see the newsquest your publishers lunch this week this week a Welsh edition of the National digital only at the moment got the same name is it actually the application or is it a branch of yours of yours? I've not been heavily involved but the managing director down near the makeup of questions and give them some advice.

It's got very different political mission.

It's neutral politically neutral and we are we are kind of the opposite of that so it's got its own journey to take it's obviously inspired by the looks of the people who inspires which which I only take it as a compliment and Westmoor vet ok question about whether British journalism has a Westminster problem.

Affects people in Scotland do you think that London is exactly how many principles Frank because there is also Another Way Fleet Street titles, so cold after have a completely different take on a story in the Scottish edition vs.

One and the rest of the day.

I see your groove thing is because we doing this until I can see your facial expressions which is illuminating at the moment is that has been because it used to be the case to you if you wanted to know what's going on then you had to know a set of characters in London and now I think with the with the Devolution and the pandemic is highlighted that the strange powers exist to cover the UK properly not decided abominations is a lot more complex a new ones you're out of the issues the characters a lot more, so it's understandable that there is a bit of a Westminster bookers, so I think that some of the characters in London you do cover Scottish politics 10 to cover a bit like a foreign country and I think that could be.

Donedeal to understand what's going on in Scotland particularly when this the what's happening and won't be so important Laura Riley from the Inside Out just briefly to and finally to you as you're not doing with that analysis.

It's a subject that doesn't come up perhaps every every single day.

It's not a subject that everybody and Westminster is perhaps following can of eagerly on Twitter and refreshing there.

They're all the time so I think unfortunately yeah.

They're probably doesn't need to be a little bit more education.

There is two dominant in terms of how we look at this country.

We talked about on this show is idea the lobby Daniel Westminster which days have people from Scotland innit of course excuse politics towards an English in particular advantage vs.

English politics.

I was going to say internationally.

I think everyone else is going to ask you to their own country, but I think yeah undoubtedly there's there's an England skew that's where the majority of images based.

Thank you so much for the National Frank O'Donnell editor-in-chief of Aberdeen journals Lara Reilly was Media editor at Insider Stuart Murphy formerly of

3ina co-founder of fully Focus