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Read this: Andrew Neil: a 50-year media career

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Andrew Neil: a 50-year media career…

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts afternoon Monday the 8th of March that is before Harry and Meghan interview with Oprah had a beard on ITV and in eternity before Piers Morgan left ITV hello in 1983 the Sunday Times was a stayed and liberal title does never quite left the 1970s Rupert Murdoch made the brave many thought reckless decision to give the editorship to a 34-year Old wonkish Grammar school boy in America file who never done a day's work at a national title to be launched the 40-year journey of this scribbler from Paisley just west of Glasgow to the summit of the British establishment with whom he often went to war but the British Media he would go on to remould.

It's posh English pigs in his own Scottish and singular image.

He would become Britain's most famous newspaper editor.

Revolutionary who managed to infuriated Murdoch the queen and the prime minister with a single splash story the founding chairman of Sky Britain's most feared tv interview at the publisher of several magazines including The Spectator and now the chairman of a News Network GB news causing conditions in the BBC from which he is estranged my aim here is to understand who he actually is and what exactly is plotting now.

There's a lot to talk about without you know and you're welcome to the show.

Thank you very much for your time for us when you're busy.

Thank you to talk about that as well as even use which we gonna come on to start with attention.

I've never quite resolved at years ago when I was falling in love with the romance of newspapers as an undergraduate.

I read your book about the Sunday Times full disclosure and I thought about them that you came across as an Insider Lantern with the prime minister of the rich and famous it since then a few different jobs and I reread the book in preparation for this interview and I'm now struck by how much of an outside.

2 Fleet Street to London to the Murdoch Empire to the BBC to help me are you the outsider who became an Insider or the other way around I am an outsider you can't do all the jobs that you've just been through without becoming something of an inside.

I'm afraid that's inevitable in the end.

I'm outside when I join The Economist in the early 70s.

I was from University of Glasgow Grammar School that was pretty much a public school Oxbridge Monopoly there.

I was certainly an outsider when I went to Fleet Street in the form of the Sunday Times because I've never even worked in sweet street before it's everybody very kindly pointed out is so most of the driving him something I've been outside at the BBC to never really quite embrace mate, though.

They did give me lots of good shows and I had many happy times there.

I've always tried to retain something of the outside so for example.

I'm not in the least bit interested and all the bottles for the state may have to offer knighthoods off period is there anything like that I simply believe the journalist should not accept Awards governments are they are paid to hold your accountability and I've never really tried to be on the inside track joining the right clubs meeting the right people getting close to the right people we kept the bunch of friends.

I had 2030 years ago so I am in inside and now you can't deny that you can you can be The Economist the Sunday Times a Scotsman sky the BBC without being a spectator been something of an Insider but I've always try just to keep my distance a little bit and yeah and yet you can you find yourself in open water in confrontation with your employers we're going to get onto Rupert Murdoch you mention that the BBC about journalism and what is it about you which means you so often been intention so you say with you.

Welsh part of the problem is that if we get this was particularly true the Sunday Times but the results of times of The Economist we got really good stories.

I was into Pompey stories out which meant I did a lot of television and a lot of radio and gained a certain notoriety or profile by doing that and there were others were in the vineyards.

Who are the resented actually clean rubber murder.

They profile in the public eye that I had achieved and I think that caused some tensions whilst he was getting the publicity wine on others you remember Rupert Murdoch one stage was people think it's your Sunday Times it's not it's mention your profile another word for profile of course his fame.

We talking the aftermath of Oprah winfrey's into Harry and Meghan come back to you, but do you think it's been easier for you to be an effective during this?

By becoming more and more famous because I know who you are but I wouldn't say that's essential and indeed sometimes Fame can get in the way.

I've just the hard graft of good journalism and in the end good journalism is not a bad thing.

It's about telling stories breaking stories that parcel people don't want to be told I am that's got nothing to do with Fame at all.

So I think it's a double-edged sword spend can be good to help you newspaper.

Help me magazine help get publicity, but you mustn't think celebrity is not the endgame here.

We're not in business to be celebrities wear in business to tell stories and to produce things that other people should want to read and that's very different from Fame and I think sometimes there are celebrity journalist.

Usually the end up being famous for being famous not famous because they've done great stories of broken great stories are told truth that need to be told will it go back long for you a favour if you were born in 1949 into the post-war boom you turned 18 at the peak of the Swinging 60s your further Desert Rat in the morning mother and worked in the cotton mills and how did how did it shave and affect you my mother and father both working class Tories that mean in practice deferential mean that time in the 50s as a 50s Ron Harold Macmillan would be the conservative leader and Conservative Prime Minister posh guy I think I've been crafter in the Highlands it would have liked the Scottish connection.

They were working class Tories who thought the Tories did a better job running the economy.

And they also they had benefit in a bit from the growing prosperity of the 50s.

Wish you would have happened regardless of who was in power, but it was I think my parents rather like the way they became that bit more affluent.

They got a rather nice semi-detached council house, which they moved into a 1953.

I think it was from a rather dreary tenement building in the centre of Paisley at the time and so they saw their prosperity there increase opportunities including for me as well as part of what the Conservatives have done folding in the 1950s and their benefits the Conservatives benefited from that kind of support forget.

There was a lot of working class Tories in the 1950s indeed and indeed in the in the pre-war years of course is it just you mentioned prosperity.

I've always felt there was moth.

Play some news actually there two kinds of wealth as material wealth which is known as money in this moral wealth which is known as love and I have to say to be why wasn't born rich but I was born into Great moral welfare very strong family very strong immigrant value to get on an education matted you've used similar language in twos.

I've seen saying you were much more privileged then some Richard boys.

What do you mean by that? I didn't come from a poor background the sense of the grinding poverty of the Gorbals or the east end of London renting like that you came from a pretty ordinary family of modest Ashlands even Athens is too strong a word everyone starving we run out of food.

We had a nice house and garden at the front garden at the back.

We done it.

We rented it from the council.

I went to a decent school.

We should just open 1954 9 Craig's primary.

Set me up well for my 11-plus.

So it's not that we came from any kind of grinding poverty but we want middle class.

Hi there, we didn't have that kind of afterwards.

We are the different kind of Athens I was very lucky that I had a mum and a dad.

I had two parents and they both cared about me and they love me you wanted the best for me and they gave me a set of moral values and they gave me a solidity in life and they gave me a sense that they wanted to get on that generation dolls my parents were born just before the first world war broke out in 1914 came grew up in the 20s and 30s the terrible time of depression and very bad in the West of Scotland in particular and then just as things were beginning to get better the second world war breaks out my father leaves for his basic training in Aldershot 1939 does not see my older brother who was born in April 1939 for over 4 years because he was sent to Africa to more than Africa to fight Romans

Panzer divisions and then eventually got a bit of afternoons after the Second World War they were as Tom brokaw the Great American the greatest generation generation and I think they were two Wars a great depression modest affluence at the end of the Royal having seen of the greatest Evil the world ever known in the form of the Nazis and I think both my parents new could have been different from them and different circumstances, but it was what it was and what they wanted me to have the opportunities and the Education they never had and that's what they instilled in me and what I took advantage of so that in many ways was privileged.

I have lots of rich friends now and I know some of the kids and all the rest of it these rich kids did not in many ways have a privilege the background as I will you feel that you fulfill their promise again.

Education Glasgow University which is produced countless characters of little Renown including Adams Adam Smith of course where you left you became chairman of the federation young Conservatives who wrote A Few speeches for teddy generation of Conservative church live in a different generation.

I think you are now this will your politics so that stage and do you think you need to go into politics politics? I did write a couple of speeches for Ted Heath when he was prime minister.

So destroy experience and his speech right.

I could ever have you just wanted to rush up to the podium pushing out the way and tell him this is how you should read the speech.

This is how you should do it today.

To kill any speech that you had when I became chairman of the federation of Conservative Students there was no money in it and I just graduated from the University of Glasgow they wanted me to come down to London Eye how can I do that? I've got no job.

No income people that have private incomes and son but to be fair to them.

They give me a job and conservative research department and that paid me while I was the job of federation of Conservative Students chairman my politics them well, very he tightly certainly on the left of the Conservative Party by the largely to the left of Mr Blair as well.

I believe that government should intervene.

I believe regional policy believes in the market economy, but I believe the original Colosseum that role in making sure the economy perform properly was very much Harold macmillans, Middleway iodide economics at the University of Glasgow political economy as it was.

Call there and that was very much the even said that you know mix department as well, so I was very much in the mainstream in the middle.

I remember being very upset when Ted Heath would not be builders in another place.

Just give us a sense of the heady scent of Opportunity you felt when you went to America quite a bit later on about me going to America with the timing so the kind of broad politics that I believed in from Harold Wilson on the centre-left to take Heath Health Centre right had been the Politics of Britain since the 1950s and by 1979 it had led to the winter of Discontent in I'd lead to a country that was regarded as the sick man of Europe and it lead to

That was regarded to be inevitable and perhaps in reversible Decline and of course I have been a supporter of these policies incomes policy intervention in the economy of the rest of it and I went to America began to think more see more of one of vibrant market economy can do of the importance of Markets the importance of competition as an insurgent as a disruptor not as an establishment vehicle the took that away which America with breakup big companies because they were too powerful and important and also social mobility the importance of it doesn't really matter where you come from.

No Jesse what school you went to university just how good are you and all that road in my time in America in the 70s and early 80s when I came back to Britain I've become much more in favour of market economics and much more suspicious of government intervention.

And it was a if you sent out there has to burn it was your friend and mentor of the late as to burn it, you know I was sent out by an end to this was at The Economist and it was a relationship connection with one man that readers will change your life and that wasn't Rupert Murdoch that came later.

It was in stelzer who change your life wasn't it? Just have to earn was what the organisation neerad you guys said that but leads your meeting Murdoch Jewish kid from New York the Bronx when I can remember which brilliant man has a PhD in he was Doctor in salsa PhD in economics Ivy League university educated came from very Audrey back his speciality was micro economics economics of the market not of government policy and he was brilliant and I met through mutual friends, but I was The Economist North America

Responding we hit it off.

I think he says some similarities in easily working-class kid from the West of Scotland he was the working class so Jewish kid from a New York we became good friends didn't know that he was friendly was with a murder.

I didn't meet Rupert Murdoch I didn't meet murder in America when I was over there but earlier and I really hit it off and you became my support and I did mention my name to murder and that's what lead to being interviewed for the Sunday Times Are along with the others The Economist at the time were huge intellectual influence on me at so when you went in to meet Rupert Murdoch in Grays Inn Road was it the Old headquarters of the time it was the famous Hitler Diaries scoop of the century was looking for a new editor by paps.

Available cobblers we're terrified.

I wasn't terrified but I was apprehensive and I wasn't quite sure what he wanted either.

I didn't think you wanted me is indeed song I thought that he was going to make Alistair Burnett my old mentor at The Economist with making it is the Sunday Times and he wanted me to be deputy a position.

I would have gone over hot coals to take to transfer data second interview I saw Mr twice the actually wanted me to be edited.

I was quite gobsmacked by that I was usually surprised.

I really worried and wondered if I was up for it, but I was also hugely excited I mean and these days Sunday Times was the greatest sanding paper in the world is about to get better and it was about to get better.

What did you want to do bonding with him because he has had this level for America which and the free market which he had.

British establishment, how fundamental and centre was actually it is I wasn't as confident as I became to be more critical of the British establishment in these days.

I was more timid when it came to establish matters.

That's been with The Economist for 10-years.

It doesn't get more establishment that wanted to be editor of The Economist until Rupert Murdoch offered me the Sandy time, so I didn't think my chances of being editor which were perhaps never that strong anyway, but would would have hands by becoming this real anti-establishment figure.

No, it was actually Rupert Murdoch irony to be ages of the Sunday Times Rich liberated need to be coming and then she establishment figure.

Let's talk what you did with the roof at the Sunday Times I say, I'm not on first name is Colin Murdock and eventually got so close to murlough and the Murdoch's that you regularly spend Christmas day with him and his kids in Aspen Colorado Elizabeth's.

James running around you are there on Christmas day you put the family the family don't know it was back.

Then you had to be pretty tough.

It was a highly competitive the family.

It was a very well brought up then the an American particular second wife with whom he was married for 30 years good lady from the West of Scotland she was a very good mother brought the car is not easy bringing up rich kids.

It's pretty hard not to spoil them, but I think she did a pretty good job.

Especially was there all the time I had a long honeymoon was Rupert Murdoch did I was surprised, but it lasted as long as it did that was a long while when I was one of his in a circle called and things way beyond the Sunday Times he will get me to come back and conferences and involving things that were just about newspapers and I enjoyed that I wasn't even got to meet Donald

In 1986 and Aspen I met him he came to a new years eve party with some Playboy bunny.

I think it was at the time because he has he said to me I hear your editor of the Sunday Times of London and I said and he said I should be on the cover of your power magazine leave a great colour maxi heard of you and you said that's why I didn't he never got that will make me laugh.

You know Shawn Mendes there's nothing was suffering from promoting himself even a new years eve party well.

You'd established herself in Circle by then just think about what it was like for you.

You're 33 when you were given the job, so before we started it was on a plane from New York just before you started the job you have a panic attack the air hostess at to hold your hand I wonder what it's like if you want day one as editor surrounded by all these mighty forces as you can.

My first day too similar job at a newspaper.

I did terrifying moment when I do what's called paging up where you look at the the flat plan which is the the layout for the next day and I never worked at the news desk.

I came up to the comment desk and absolutely baffled by this grid of 64 pages in front of me, because it could have been a Mandarin it was actually terrified.

You must have you must have had similar moments never worked at national paper hear you were the mighty Grays Inn Road giving you this job.

Did you have any idea what you're doing University of course how to do bases together in the same scale as the Sunday Times I was apprehensive to and a little bit frightened.

There was not exactly a lot of warmth to me.

I think I was the youngest number staff were several people there.

I thought they should have been a editor.

I was clearly murderous appointment that didn't India me to them either and it was a

Time I wasn't sure how long I would survive I thought they were number of people that didn't want me to survive either when I look back.

I might have overdone all that I think I was probably to robust I probably too many decisions to quickly I probably got rid of too many people too soon as well.

I had a fear that such was the resistance Among The Old Guard but if I didn't move quickly they would wear me down and kind of vehicle guerrilla warfare and that I would never get anything done if I have to do it again.

I would things differently would you be kinda? You would require cos I mean you write you write several times before disclosure that you say you're too quick to criticize too slow to praise you say a quick I become a harsh unforgiving editor you had eaten Jack the great feature writer when he resigned he wrote.

You're very sternly worded letter.

You sent immigration's responsive than he wrote your soft a letter return it will quite brutal about your management start.

Bride-to-be and I think a lot of that came out of insecurity and also I think a lot of it came from lack of experience of realising that I didn't really know what I was doing and as I said I do that again.

I would do a different neighbour.

I was also well aware that with a lot of people there wanted to see me Fal they really resented.

I did Ian Jack one of the greatest writers of his generation also Scottish I didn't very hoarse letter from me in Jack the irony was because I never once been asked to Ian jacket all knowledge after you got back to him actually the second letter in which he apologise I made the sun.

For purpose in the 1980s in a way that it wasn't because it was languishing in the late 60s and 70s so in the end regrets.

Yeah, but in the end the the the result produced what I wanted it to be and it ended up a Sunday times that I built and they didn't actually be wasn't being created by anybody else and I think it was a good why you at the news right ready to lead the the move to Wapping that history been told so many times.

I don't know do it but just succinctly if you would why do you feel that Wapping had to happen? I think there is just one small and then I think younger listeners viewers, wherever you think I'm making it up, but I move to the Sunday Times in 1983 no journalist could touch a computer keyboard if you touch the computer keyboard they went on strike because all copy had to be tight send on computer if they had computers.

Prefer to use the old hot Metal linotype machines, but even where computers have been introduced in the ad been at times newspapers it had to be done by members of a print Union called nga, no journalist.

Could do that.

Just seemed to me to be absurd and the way to an early grave for Britain's newspapers and this of course was for the digital Revolution came along and we were I wanted a literary section I wanted to style section.

I wanted culture section none of that was possible as long as the Union charge with new printing presses that weird built at 60 million pounds lot of money in these days.

We were not able to use them as the unions wouldn't do it.

They stood in the way of progress.

Not unions as as normal people with regard unions they were run.

I can't remember by a kind of print Union mafia.

Only tried to stop the sound.

Vintage because Eddie Shah who was a little entrepreneur from Warrington because I call to Mehdi Shah and I see what I'm calling a baby shark as he's called any shot.

No, they said Salim Jahan and I said right.

Let's just stop now the National Front is taking over the Sunday Times will print no more papers tonight search for all these reasons and it was brutal it was messy was violent was dangerous, but if you couldn't go see if you waited the future as the Americans papers, had is European paper.

Would you doing then in the end? It was probably know no other way and if we hadn't done it the British newspaper industry will be dead in the water what you are close protection officer for a very long time.

It was obviously if you stretch your security, but I wonder if I obviously there was a very strong financial argument for using new technology to improve efficiency and lower costs about the human cost you didn't you're actually terrible suffering.

Few people directions to a lot of people losing their jobs, but our action was a necessary if they had accepted to come we wanted them to come to the new printing.

We did not want to fight people we wanted them to come come or at least if they all came.

They would have to then be a program of redundancies to we might got the man in the right for the new presses.

We will bring us to employ people to press buttons that no longer exist it with generous redundancy already.

We wanted to go say remove every other sensible industry had the gusseted moves to new technology so in the end.

I'm afraid they brought it on themselves, so many people were badly misled by the union leader decent people people didn't want this fight people have been happy to come to Wapping but there was no way they could be intimidated.

Would you say to those people who haven't forgiven you.

Into you now watching you now think actually I was respected.

I got a decent wage this guy came along and we check this out.

I didn't working practice new machinery and new technology.

I wish your hand been that way my life would have been a lot easier if I hadn't been that way.

I wouldn't need it to bodyguards for 13 months as the result of the MOT in the hatred of the kind of people you were talking about but he couldn't be done the Peaceful way, it had to be done the way we did it and it had to be done again.

I would do remember we did not move to cheat non-union labour we moved to a different Union and we paid that the highest wages of blue-collar workers in United Kingdom not somebody unionization cheap the labour way at all.

It was to try and rid ourselves of unions who wanted to deny the latter.

The 20th century existing stories that you covered you managed with a single Storey to infuriate the queen Rupert Murdoch Murdoch Harry and Mrs Thatcher it had the immortal headline Queen dismayed uncaring Thatcher uncaring quotes get away with it because it's most powerful women in the country the prime minister under Queen maby you could away with one of the other but doing to was somewhat Phil Harding I got away with it then because the story was true and I got away with it and also because Rupert Murdoch did Stand By Me and that was one of the advantages of having a a proprietor who had no interest in the social investment in London Society annual you allowed to give you until you alleged that you have evidence that Buckingham Palace try to get you sacked through people at the moment John Stevens whatever has to have for that claim.

Don't forget the times had a series of what were meant to be independent directors these with directors that Murdock had to a point as part of the price for buying the times and the Sunday Times in the early 80s and they were terribly well connected establishment figures at the time and with the number of lions into the the palace you trevor-roper of the Hitler Diaries who is a great friend of the royal family are working back to me because there's independent directors.

Got involved.

They hated the story they were very upset that I need to get Michael che the press secretary of Buckingham Palace resign or be prepared to resign and I remember saying I'm just with a press secretary in the Sunday Times and then come back with him.

William Heseltine who was then the Secretary the Private Secretary to the queen public the most senior official in the palace? What about if he resigned with the with the editor of The Sunday Times resign in the end? It was Alastair Burnet my old mentor from The Economist who was also an independent director all times newspapers who said why we talking about engine you having to resign the stories true we all know the story is true.

Why is resignation involved in and in the end? We had together wouldn't say to them your appointed to defend the editor not to get the edges of fired and that Brother and also intend.

We're speaking in the most astonishing briefing war from a month royal circles and we'll come onto Oprah Winfrey interview technique in a bit the what do you experience of those stories teach you about the house of Wynsors fondness for spin and deals to get rid of people they weren't compliant.

Either when their backs up against the repair to lie, but it also took me that they were not very agile in dealing with a bush fire that was in danger turning into a forest fire that they were slow to react they were quite Legend booties that they were not used to being in the frame in this way and the provided you stuck guns in you assure the story that you had told was true, then you could see them off not without a few heart pounding moments but you could see them.

I think they probably got a lot better since we've been blooded a lot since that story way back in 1986, but they are fine, but you don't take them unless you up for the fight so much leverage apparently.

Did you ever get a public hearing to the idea that HIV does not cause AIDS

Yes, I've medical correspondent of the time that lifestyle played at much or roll in HIV as a virus itself and I think in the end she turned out to be wrong, but we certainly publicise goes to that you regret the extent to which he gave you are time give the digital archaeology two parts of the story when I think it was right one was that the government campaign to deal with I think people forget have frightening.

It was at the time.

It was a bit like the pandemic in many ways that we didn't know how to deal with we didn't know what was it seem to be stress are the government campaign at the time was trying to say that everybody was vulnerable that everybody could get HIV

And I thought that was wrong and say goodbye medical correspondent and we wanted much of the campaign to be much more focused on those who were most vulnerable because we thought that would save the most lives and that and I think that that part of the campaign was right this and yeah.

Yeah, there's a new one.

So what you don't find on Wikipedia do and I don't know that because medical correspondent it turned out to be right on that he then said citing some very well-known scientists as well, then he thought lifestyle behaviours that were more likely to be a cause of HIV than the virus itself, so haven't got the first bit right.

I went along with the second thing Jewish second it was a mistake.

Do you wish do you wish things that ended on the Rupert Murdoch yes, I do but that was the first making for 11 years.

I produced a very good newspaper.

I turn the new.

Round I've made it an editorial success to steam as well as a profitable newspaper when I left it was making £1000000 a week and enjoying that these days.

Let me tell you now for a paper coming out once a week.

Not a bad prophet.

I left in good heart.

I left with no animal stay at all, but he doesn't like people leaving and he was happy to get rid of people but he doesn't like people walking out on their own times so the fact that it turned with some animus was nothing to do with me and another some projects.

I would like to wish to involve Rupert Murdoch but they didn't and it quickly broke down since that day.

I walked out of the end of 1994.

He has not spoken to work to me that in a way.

That's quite good because I've seen so many editors and senior murdered people who leave and they can't give up holding onto his coattails.

Go back you didn't she still likes me maybe I could go back and get another job so in a sense having that complete break no for what is it 26 27 years no contact with them at allowed me to build a post murder Korea and Iran many post Murdoch editors have gone to make very successful careers without murder.

Which is everything for you imagine cleansing spiritual and professionally closet Republican but you weren't yeah, I noticed in a TV debate for ITV in 1997.

You are good for the Republic side against Frederick Forsyth and Jeffrey Archer not really I mean I'm not a cheerleading Miracast I can see the friends of a republic injections of the royal family at that time was basically Marxist

Like it was the Pinnacle of a class system and they were the top ones and my Sunday Times is devoted to trying to break-up British class system to America and I thought it would be possible to have a royal family but was separate from the class system.

Otherwise I've always had your dad is a Marxist as you know your apology apology rather complicated that you wanted the paper to be Neo keynesian economic policy radical right in industrial policy liberal on social matters and European and Atlantis on foreign policy.

You take the word radical that blairism I've never said.

Tell us now and I've voted for all three UK national politics Bradley yes, Broadway I think the job of government is to get to technical year bit to run aggregate demand quite high you that's that's how you get full employment so government should run deficits definitely to be I'm not against episode financing keep aggregate demand.

I keep people employed but at the same time the economy needs to be efficient enough so that aggregate demand takes place in it doesn't just suck in imports.

So you need supply-side reforms you need competition and all the rest of that.

I've always been a social Liberal one of the most liberating things that happened to me was when I came to London in the early 70s after university and I ended up going to this wine bar on the King's Road cover nose wine bar, NYC

And it was like the United Nations there were people from all over the world.

You were there living in London and the the bartender was a big Nigerian guy a bit as friends came from Battersea from Brixton they were Anglo Asian is there New York Jews everybody from the summer of mono white Paisley to this I just loved it.

So I always loved the diversity and I've got it needs.

It wasn't nearly is diversity his so liberalism was always good for me.

We were broadly support of the Mrs Thatcher in the 1980s.

We were against section 28 which was the anti homosexual legislation so no reason at all and I've always been pramerica in and I've always be pretty pro-europe as well.


We talked about the class system in the establishment.

You got a very interesting relationship with the establishment after you published the Andrew Morton

Princess diary went on news now and you confronted Charles more than that obviously right to The Spectator and you write in your book that more soon destroyed his credibility when he announced journeys should use hypocrisy and consider when writing about the royal family in the House of Lords you've never going house rules about his different journalistic approach to what you might call the establishment Charles Moore that effectively works for me, so would be inappropriate to discuss that matters with the staff ok? Why I wonder if you've talked about his manage with the service.

I should say that because I know you say you should go in for digital archaeology or offence archaeology but I'm in murston.

Fleet Street history, and I couldn't help but notice that in The Spectator 1992 Charles more of a long piece of following the morton revelations and I'm going to quote Atlanta that no one could accuse me of taking it out of context.

He said about you and you're laughing nearly 30 years on.

This is his face had that strange.

Quite common in Scotsman of being composed the features at the scale with each other and it's hair did not seem to grow in a natural or attractive way, he went on to describe use as brave and consistent but then he said the only threat to be the news editorial decisions is not that have a consistent point of view but ever consistent psychological traits a manic egotism.

When is papers attack to try to put down the cricket with petrol and abusing is Atticus when is own contacted criticise he goes to the law television camera.

He Rushes towards it he wants his this country to be in his own image.

He will not rest until he is people is I'll with Taliban and they also could ask you but I was speaking to you.

Why do in Cheylesmore so personal as a rude about you and his performance on Newsnight disaster for him not for me for him to say that it's their job to promote hypocrisy.

Remember Jeremy Paxman did that interview with a paxman's eyebrows were going to hit the his hairline.

He was so amazed by you know that was an order Britain and there was a newer Britain on the way and it was baking a smart and it was a threat to People Like Cheylesmore you take a certain item being his outfit bus today that photo was a benign employer.

I am that he is still writing freely on The Spectator let's talk about what you want to do it the BBC you and that is the BBC's rottweiler and chief the face of interrogator.

I will talk to you some detail about how you approach interviewing you pretty.

Tell me where I need to get stuff to improve.

Can you describe it as a high-level how you approach saying is you with the Premiership what's your starting point Blank Boris Johnson coming on the prime minister.

What is engineers think right? What if it's important to the prime minister would start with me sitting down with the editor of the program and

Are those who work in the program particularly the person is going to do the major research and we will can a scope out the areas that we would want to cover and that would be an initial meeting the the the the person in charge of producing the brief with and disappear and drop a list of questions on the basis of that scoping out.

I would like that and Amanda change it as further questions about what's the date of this if they see this what's going to happen here and this process with go back and forward at least 6 maybe 8 sometimes 10 times before we would them produce a series of questions each of which had backup data each of which wasn't just a question if he says this this is the answer to that here of the figures you might need if he mentions that and so on and so weird.

Whether it was a process of getting the questions, but also breathing ourselves at all the roots the prime minister might take as well and so finally by about the 10th iteration of the going back and forward I would also open the ask my colleagues at The Spectator for there in for two because they knew a lot of great things as well and by big is a major team effort we would get the spinal brief in which I would have the questions and bold type quite large bold type and then smaller Roman typed all the background information that I might need so when we finally went into that I was pretty sure that there was very little that.

I could could be thrown back at me.

Also had to be with a frame of mind off things went to certain way all of that had to be sidelines and I had to follow whatever I was been told I've noticed that you're at your most viral interactive the questions that you are often very short sentences.

Do you submit edit them down because I thought the idea of being the sentence less wiggle wiggle.

Yes, it was that team that didn't never fantastic.

I mean they were the best research resource.

You could ever hope to have that wasn't eventually did as well.

He hired the best and the brightest and they were a huge asset to me and they loved as young tenacious Jonas the fact.

Who we are interviewing we were going to go for it was going to be a tough interview and they love that approach as well.

Then came a time when in the course of the interview when you need to put aside the written questions you gonna come back to them this time but zoom in and I think that's that was the interview has said something and I think that's most clearly seen in the interview when I had done the anti-semitism in the Labour Party and is association with people who have been accused of anti-semitism and I just suddenly thought is he going through this and he was resisting.

I just thought I put aside the question.

I would you not like to apologise to Britain's Jewish community and I got a bit of Lionel and I just said would you know like to apologise?

So short these questions which are shorted you say was Dunnes involve a massive research.

Just straight to the point can sometimes be very effective in the frost tapeswitch is This podcast of David Frost archive David Frost was a friend and mentor to you as a podcast on BBC sounds Frost refers to a favour about the about the traveller who is confronted with the north wind and the sun and he said the North Wintour angry at the coke, but all is there between then the sun began to shine and all his beams were gentle and the traveller and his cloak and frost approach was to be the sunshine he felt if you could get the traveller the interviewee to take off his cloak be warm and was friendly you can get to what was inside you the Sun or the wind the Wind David Frost who is a great friend of mine and a great help to me a mental lovely man.

David was also the most emollient of characters and that was his style was too kind of bring people in get them in make them feel and relax to the studio never told you things they hadn't been to the top.

I have to say David also he had like me he had his folder forensic.

He was Firenza if you listen back to Frost Nixon on days 7 and is detailed understanding those legal judgement, but do you have this day before I see you tweet recently about to the way American interviewers approach certain things that we talking shortly after Oprah winfrey's interview with Meghan Markle and Prince Harry she's obviously soft cheese emollients.

She's she's friendly and she needs you as a friend went to their wedding which is inside status.

I suppose you would resolve from but it was one of the newest interviews you could imagine do you accept there? X

Soft approach can lead to the greatest news revelations.

Ok, I think I think if I ask them what their favourite colour is getting that answer isn't much of a revelation.

What is your favourite colour blue with more about the rest of the BBC a few buddies have told me that they were moves afoot to get YouTube let NewsNow you even try to turn It All About It why did that never happened was great resistance of the time in Newsnight to me going there.

I think they just didn't fit I remember one senior journalist there been absolutely apoplectic at the idea that a former Murdock editor could be an anchor presenter.

On Newsnight no not this was it was in the early 2000s that I was present in the times and even the Guardian pointed out on the night so I did it got the highest ratings of that.

She'd been given that program and I turned it Dad I was off I was often use night in the late 80s offer to be editor as well as the presenter of news now the so presenter and editor but I thought I done finish work at the Sunday time.

I still had more sections to launch more of my Mark to put on it.

I would have liked to have done it in the early 2000s but I think there was such resistance then that would have been an unhappy time and as it turned out it was probably I just as well.

I didn't it didn't quite seem as important by then as it had before.

If you're honest and I know you are being honest.

Are you a bit cheesed off with how things ended with the BBC this week wasn't successful.

It was taken off as it is not quite the right thing say a little bit frustrated Olympic exhaust meet again a little bit surprised as to why it was allowed to happen.

What happen.

What do things happen? I have to 16 years of great success with this week.

I suggested.

We should be moved to a better and the BBC just just blank refuse to even consider that it said there was no other time you can be well.

They asked me what time it should be moved to I said put up and put up against Preston on a Wednesday night that over his money.

We could come off the back of the news on Wednesday night, but they weren't for that.

I guess the they said to me yeah, but the problem is you also destroying use night as well.

That's enough as it is so it didn't happen.

I didn't think it was my job to schedule the BBC they don't pay me to do that.

I just said well.

You'll have to 16 years.

I'm not really spending anymore midnight's in Millbank I've done I've worked in the vineyards for 16 years.

I'm not doing anymore position was produced the Andrew Neil show which was doing well getting good reviews getting good ratings off and beating Channel 4 news at 7 and Wednesday night that often the pandemic without any without even calling me to say or explain what might be coming down the pike and I thought that was a bit unfair to so I was left in Liverpool this week was gone the engineer.

Was cans for the foreseeable and then we decided to Kenneth entirely by then and I thought that was a necessary, but they were bigger forces at work.

I had a good and maybe time to move on then decided after not being in touch with me for a long while they better get in touch and see if it wasn't something they could save but by then.

I think it was too late.

They did make some offers which were quite derisory one involving doing interview show that would start the BBC Four and I just thought that wasn't for you.

We've got everything that you've moved on to just get them and I have no and I was there for 25 years had a good time.

They give me lots of things to do like in the major in elections and referenda.

I became the major interviewer going on a prime time and all the rest of it.

I left without any at the most.

I think it.

Necessary but I would also say I think the timing was unfortunate for the BBC and for me the existing DG was on the way out the new gdd.

G I get to cook their feet under the desk and nobody was really taking eliquis.

Tell me who is a great advocate of yours before we come on to the Future broadcast.

Are you gameshare with the Barclay brothers press Holdings Reuben 9096? Why do they approach you do you think I think they wanted they on The Scotsman group by then and the European but I think he saw that as a precursor to be in Fleet Street proprietors, and I think they wanted someone who had worked in Fleet Street for a long while and you are worked and although my job is to run the Scotsman group to help them opportunities come up and I think it was people that knew about the do they offer you.

Every the editorship of the daily or Sunday Telegraph to clear that neither job due to me is traditionally on the BBC this it's quite uppercrust Oxbridge educated.

Hi Tory because that's what it was its history have always been there any course founded by a Scotsman around the Dundee Advertiser about is Upper Crust as me so it's history and always been that it had been seen to become that in the 70s and 80s with people like Charles Moore and others and then Boris Johnson himself and pick up very atonia cause Conrad Black was the proprietor much as he like to pose as being the outsider.

Just dropped in think he loved an English public school boy.

One gone to Oxford at one stage 3 on the Saturday Telegraph the Daily Telegraph and The Spectator my main job is I saw was to take it out of being kind of little cottage industry vanity publication and Mercury proper commercial magazine without losing all the editorial office that made The Spectator of The Spectator and I think that's what I've done that first of all editorial the regard for the high editorial quality of The Spectator under Fraser Nelson as well now universal everybody admits he is one of the top of his generation secondly the circulation of the British edition alone is that over 100000 way above or it's ever been in its long 190 ideas.

History and thirdly it's highly profitable as well.

How much is a private company and will keep that private but it's making a great return Legacy publication of his grasp all the necessary tools of the digital age to reinvent itself a magazine founded in 1828 never been stronger.

I'm never more highly regarded and not just by people on the centre right and it's profitable which is the best guarantee of its independence and more people are buying it and not just online buying the print edition 80% of 100000 subscribers take the print as well as Jewish charged online earlier.

Yes, I like most people in the publishing business.

We messed around for too long awhile Strood newspapers.

He was true magazines.

You know charging for the magazine, but we're making over content free online will what's the sense of that? That's like saying there's a bunch of bananas is gonna cost you the same bunch of bananas and you can have it for you if you go to this different platform, so it took awhile, but we got there in the end and the key the news change with to realise there was no future in digital advertising remember.

We all chasing eyeballs.

We all wanted to make you know digital advertising was going to print advertising it was a raised digital pennies and a race to the bottom with all of that preserve basically rubbishy digital advertising the Future was scription had to produce something that people were prepared to pay for and prepare real money for and that's the model that we moved on to 5 years ago.

That's the model.

Is giving this old magazine the oldest in the world more financial security that is ever had an assist and what editorial influence do you have The Spectator very strong editora heritage day today week to week basis none at all.

I really know sometimes.

I was going to be in the couple that week and tells me and that's the end of the conversation all the time I get to ask and I pick up the magazine with everybody else every now and then on a really big issue the editor will ask me what I think how you should approach it sometimes.

He'll say I got three cover this week.

What do you think and I'll give him my view.

It's up to you wants to forward my job, but we have a broad editorial strategy vs.

Is job is to implement that strategy is to make sure that he sticks to that strategy and that's what we've been doing the time and what the magazine says or what column is it has a wanted to talk.

I want to take their for a coroner's to say something before it caused you some concerns so for instance in a column of quoted in 2019 rod liddle Road my own choice of election date would be a day when universe your clothes and Muslims are forbidden to do anything on pain of Hell or something they must be at least one day like that in the Muslim calendar surely that based on what you just said you would have read that until you ready in print, but you have a response pertains weather not that stuff to reach the public domain may have a view of where the literally so, what do you think of it? I think it was just being a joke that seriously didn't you go on to say that we should all so choose a day in which students can't vote and then he had other people that couldn't vote to you can regard the joke in bad taste or whatever but that was just a joke, but I was much more concerned with taxis comments about is it red down the neo-nazis in?

Was it was it when a joke was Britain is being mugged by black hoodlums West Indians were allowed to recover after the wall x like flies the rivers of blood speech by the prophetic as well as true.

Was it that no, it was when he was talking about the Greek meal fascist to windows that so what what concerns you about that because I don't think that was a joke and I think he was so it's about supporting them.

So what did you do about it? And I do think I've spoke to the editor said that I didn't think this was in Keeping with the traditions of the editorial line The Spectator which is a broad Church but not broad enough to include neo-fascist and that it would be good at that.

He didn't return to the subject which he hasn't how are you? Just say one thing and you can hear something that's too serious joke about you should do that too often.

I think that's one thing I think showing support for a neo-nazi.

Is another and there is no role for that? Where is your line when it comes to freedom of speech as such it will come on to Four Crosses it for you.

But I think Dawson Nazis one that isn't fascism and Marxism and support for that I can call that and that's for the Spectators not for me to say lines in other publications on other platforms, but you're the one thing Fraser is done is buildup of Broadchurch with The Spectator onions very taken by the fact the editorial line was for brexit and I think 3 out of his for best-known colonists were all for remain so I like that diversity, but I think you know we have to have for a mainstream magazine like to speak so it cannot be promoting mice sense.

I'll be on the pill.

I'm even coming back to the remarks.

You read out earlier about tickets for Man City Nepal I would not want to see that repeaters in The Spectator right.

I think that is also beyond the pale because it's not true.

It's offensive and actually that you've read I just can't remember that all contacts the bid you read in itself is racist free speech which is one of the GB news completely, what did your 25 years at the BBC teach you about whether impartiality was a possible and be desirable what one is taught me was that in BBC News BBC News goes to cadets to be impartial and when it doesn't succeed it is not because someone has decided to be intentionally biased it turns out.

It's because there's a certain group think that exist it was obvious everybody has the same views and they don't even realise they're being biased.

I think that's what he told me but I've seen particularly in the milbank people that I work with.

The way to try and be fair.

I'm not to be biased and is I say I think of that was just a bit more diversity of opinion on the BBC it would they're not fall into the group think problem.

I think the BBC is biased problem is not in use it's saying it's drama and it's comedy and it's none factual output.

I think it is pretty much a one party state then what then makes this a good moment to launch an opinionated political network, what is it about the daily the hourly and social media the age of polarization which we living and so forth what's just happened in America that makes you think this is a good moment for us to have a an opinion lead News Network things from a different perspective than the BBC group thing.

It's always a good time.

As always welcome news channels and you jobs for joiners.

Great on Sky in 1989 it was meant to destroy the BBC or iTV just added you to the choice is available and if you look at the major news providers in Britain at the moment.

They all come from various shades of left no mad left or anything like that bit from centre centre left a bit more left and then a bit more left a lot of people here and say what evidence do you have for that you know you've written at the BBC News a lot and it's to metropolitan, but if you actually listen to local news in Leicester or Scunthorpe or Huddersfield it's not liberal left.

It's not Ramona stuff.

It's local news from local journalist.

Novelist you have the national bulletins lean left for the BBC I would say it is a moderate centre-left outlook in the world because it should be caused.

Metropolitan Outlook We Share the Same metropolitan values they have the broadly the same Luca online director-general of the BBC about this Tim Davie said to be maybe to metropolitan.

That's a different thing from centre-left said to left as a political position on a Spectrum was the BBC was at his happiest, but I went Mr Blair was prime minister because the BBC basically it doesn't make the bad people number of you's have actually a couple of the speeches speeches for Tony Blair when he was leader of the opposition a couple of times, but what you doing the time.

What job are you doing the time?

Did you disclose at the time that you were writing speaking to the leader comes to journalism would like to know did I want an argument with him in the pit of his speech.

I think it was the 1996 labour conference so you still in opposition for some advice of what you should see in education and I had come up with the phrase of Britain is still a country of Educational and he came back and he said I'm not I can't use that phrase and I said why not he said will Alastair Campbell says it's not helpful phrase.

Is your speech it's up to you.

You say what you want, but will you say I know we do live in a country vegetation apartheid your right hand side after all who first approach about GB news family the BBC Millbank parish newspaper splashed with the idea that channel GB news with his brain child and that he he was going to be taken to it was that story over it annoys his role changed.

It was he doesn't have any news from he was Malcolm you was the protein that people who became founders and the who is the Chief Executive and he has been involved in helping raise the money although the money still hadn't been raised.

He was in the bath or at least.

Conception of the channel and he approached me because the phone does wanted me to become the chairman and be a prime-time anchor.

I was the one that you news on he approached me and he came to see me along with the chief executive of Robin was the one that introduced me to the whole concept and to the people behind it Sheeran uses backbite Marshall the hedge fund manager used to find the Liberal Democrats very interesting little a heritage.

She has he left under the leave campaign how long have you known Paul Marshall I don't know the approach the M11 2AJ person that is investing on board meetings at the moment on zoom but I have never met Paul Marshall and where you delete manta.

Discovery hoover, Discovery already in when I joined you accept that GB news is the first explicitly political domestic TV channel set out with a political purpose.

The existing channels on political Channel 4 news is not political selling out to Sky News is not very different way, aren't you? That's not political but if you're on the centre of the centre right that's political.

No it's not that I'm saying what I'm saying is that there are a lot of people look at TV news and look at the the mission that you have expanded in public which is about answering a need for non-metropolitan news and the fact that you are going channel personality lead opinion evening broadcasts and that challenges or threatened potentially an ecosystem where impartiality is receding from public view and other people think impartiality valuable and yes, you'll be regulated by Ofcom but there are lots of people but there's very little people but lottery might have concerns that in the near of Culture walls and social media actually gym.

What is exacerbating the problems we have rather than answering them all the time that don't want you being used to succeed, but it's not the other thing that's run access which is part of that man tries.

It will be Fox News and so well.

It's just nonsense but we can only be judged by what we do.

I do know I'm I'm growing long in the tooth no denying things about a network that hasn't broadcast a second of programming yet.

Will we be different from the existing networks yes because the old do the same thing so, what's the point of doing? What they do when we come and stories a different way.

Yes, will we give the advices to people outside the Metropolitan Spencer's yes, do we have any understand Fox News no disinformation no conspiracy theories.

No there is nothing in my journalistic record that could lead you to Fox News

And there's no market in my view in Britain for a fox view diary that have you just gonna have to wait and see what we don't show that view that I've put out including the show several time so help me out here news writer centre.

It leaves towards opinion rather than using prime time and invest heavily in personality driven evening shows GB news right of centre.

Please towards opinion rather than news and events heavily in personality driven evening shows so GB news is different to Fox News because now describe MSNBC in America live version of the same thing.

So, what are the difference between GBP and give you a chat and lots of little compare GPUs to Fox News and get a new the chance to be explicit about the difference to people been used to people going to be deeply disappointed.

What is the small number of people that want it to be Fox News and the other of those who said it's going to be Fox News other ones are going to be.

2.8 it is possible to learn from the United States bus from the left wing MSNBC and the right fox about programme about the important not doing rolling news anymore unless there is strong used to do that's a lesson sky and the BBC don't seem to have learnt Americans of land at that you get appointment to you if you break up the schedule during the day with programs not rolling news programs built around strong anchors with Edge character and evenness Cuba that's very nice NBC and Fox News do as well.

You can do all of that without being either fox or MSNBC you can do that by having a dick perspective to the way the existing broadcasters come please the Metropolitan classes that control the existing network news.

No, but that's not hard.

Nottingham to please them we're trying to give people who don't feel they have a voice otherwise.

I'll give you a good example and is on the BBC and that is Question Time in the aftermath of the brexit referendum question time to give it Hughes credit used to be just out of London it goes around the country and it would go to Bradford Barnsley Wigan present in the North and is the post brexit referendum aftermath when the atmosphere was quite toxic actually more so than had been during the referendum some southern smoothie on the panel would say about brexit didn't know they were voting for didn't really know what the voting for to be met by a coffee voices with Northern accent saying oh, yes.

We did we knew will work for inform we won't be patronized by you saying that we didn't that's the kind of voice.

But you actually don't hear very often in British Broadcasting hope we'll give it a bit of a voice will your headquarters be in Paddington and what's the format of your show going to be it'll be on between 8 and 9 at night for nights a week.

It'll be pretty segmented.

So it can be replayed in digital format and digital nice as much as possible will have a model on to begin with we'll have the cover story main story.

I got to have work watch I think we'll have a lot of fun with things like chestfeeding and what was that police thing about being offensive is an offence in a lot of that isn't properly covered will do a min interview if we can get one not we won't do an interview if it's only the minister and I want to do mediawatch including a video watch that was ourselves to account.

I think we get things wrong hands up and say we got this wrong.

Sotheby's you to account as well.

I think we'll have a regular guests you know what a success Abberton Portillo wear on this week for many years.

I think each night will have an equivalent of that to be able to chew the card on the menu is there any to put it out themselves coming back maybe not yet, but what I've got as you will know being a broadcast arrive probably just giving too many segments there for another long show so we're going to have to know natural that down and just I will be with the caveat that if there is E Major interview to do that night saver the Prime Minister or the opposition or there is a massive news story that is a developing story that night we drank it all and we just do that.

You know Sky News with Kay Burley of course.

She's currently offer at Sky News

About coming over know I've read it because I've been trying to check the stories out but Julia hartley-brewer coming over is that true not that I'm aware Rachel Johnson Nick Ferrari nope all in a standard Story by the way which is exactly the kind of problem we face and do they publish photographs of all the mainstream Media Paddington what's a building? No, not yet because we haven't attention in what you're saying is on the one hand lots of beer associated with the GB news.

You know broken some stories there, so that's ok.

We're going to be closely watched by Ofcom the other hand you're passing yourselves is the

Pollution music in a drag British TV into a bright tomorrow you can't have it both ways, which are you? I don't remember the revolutionaries of your friends have been doing it tomorrow.

I've done this before so I'm quite careful what I say not many people have lunch the channels before I have and I'm very careful all I'm saying at the moment is that we want a channel which will be like all the others regulated by Ofcom which will nothing to do with the extremes of left and right which will be mainstream, but will come and stories and a different way from the existing news providers and in the process add to the diversity and choice of British news British television broadcast news is among the best in the world our reputation is global for a note just the BBC Sky News is watching all sorts of Markets to ITN

Wonderful brand we just think it's got a little bit still over the past 20-years a little bit set in its ways.

We ended up talking earlier and this interview about a market economy, what is the is the purpose of a market economy in the outsiders to come in to be insurgents and to challenge the incumbents? That's what we're going to do you think you're going to exploit this subtle difference to LBC is showing 36 between impartiality and ballads.

I don't know cos I'm not really listen to ever see my used to work there many many years ago when you were still in short trousers, but I'm not sure I was around I know you're going to say I know you I say and indeed.

I have done and will continue to but I'm talking to you.

So what's your assessment of news UK's video on demand offer which they've been developing under former CBS news boss David

Well, when I started getting involved at talking to GB news, which was towards the end of last summer beginning of the autumn news also in talks with me.

They wanted me to go there and not to be chairman, Mr Rupert Murdoch but they wanted me to to do a prime-time show to and the one thing that I couldn't they were really nice David roads from CBS news was a lovely man to deal with the one thing I couldn't quite get clear was well launching a news channel which would be on Sky on Freeview and Virgin cable than all the rest of it or was it going to be a digital streaming ever alone and over-the-top TTR platform that was never clear and where as I knew the GB news was going to be a linear news channel.

It wasn't cleared News UK was so that's basically why I went.

News even though used UK offer the money ever since it seems that News UK is not doing ITV News but they are going to stream.

Maybe 3 hours of programming a night what a new show probably the one he wanted me to do one and entertainment show on another an audience show as I understand it, but just 3 hours of programming a night done the top done by digital streaming, so I don't really think they are competition for AGV news my fear was it when I went into this it was going to be a report on Sky and it was Sky television against BSB squarial fit and we both be fighting for quite a Small Part to begin with of the marketplace and that would cost millions of pounds the news UK is going to be in the same space the we are that we will have the space we're going to enter to ourselves and that.

To me, it's quite comforting and I'm glad that situation as you say that they're gonna be less political and TV news.

I want you to grab uses a centre-right.

Just looking at some of your highest centre centre right centre centre right.

Ok, Alexandra Phillips UK ukip's had needed three years then and MEP for the brexit party Michelle Dewberry you stood for Parliament is a brexit party candidate the hugely talented Darkness wanting have in common is a distaste for socialism, so just how brexit will she be News BBC News brexit seven you know what I'm talking about to what to what extent will it be alright? When will it be if a number of our presenters were on the brexit side, so what the the main presenters on the BBC still covered the referendum in the proper way, they did then? I would expect our journalists to do.

The same the fact that there more brexit which is a dead issue now compared to the existing broadcasters and I don't think Channel 4 news is exactly chock-a-block with brexiteers.

I would think we have more remainers that they have brexiteers it doesn't matter but they are different voices in British Broadcasting has been done by remain people with that survived looking hasn't stopped them doing the job if we're hiring more people know who come from a brexit background that I was still expect them to do their job properly.

I'm not be propagandist for brexit very couple of minutes left to be very generous for your time.

I just go back to News UK for a visit Rebecca Brookside approach you about doing anything today then and did you know because I got two people we're going on other people are bringing me up whispering various things about her leadership at News UK they say that the papers are in financial trouble this new video on Demand services, Halton

The radio strategies rather scattergun, what's your assessment of efficacy as a CEO or I wouldn't dare to comment on that follow News UK anymore.

I've not been posted that for years and years now.

I wish Rebecca well.

I have no desire to Mark her card.

That's not my job.

I think that there are divisions in use UK about doing this new channel or streaming service.

I think the same who want to do it actually want to do a GB that was the impression I got from David Rose that he wanted his that there are some that done.

I'm not sure of Rebecca is a huge supporter of it and so they've ended up saving between the old days Rupert Murdoch with a said either.

Don't do it.

I'm not going there or do it is 100 million and

Before that bloody GB news gets on there and be clearing equipment before we finish with a couple of clothes and do you have any sense that discovery of Paul Marshall would eventually like to buy Channel 4 Racing in any way and you have any sense after the death of David Barclay at the Daily Telegraph is up for sale true that David Barclay of the two twins of David and Frederick is it true that David was the one more enthusiastic about newspapers have rung the Telegraph no for well over a decade maybe longer other night Aidan Barclay runs it he's the chairman.

He's the hands-on.

He's the day-to-day boss.

The managing director of the CEO report and I've seen within Berkeley quite regularly because of my duties at The Spectator and I've seen no indication from him that he wants to sell the Telegraph now that David Barclay has passed away.

What did you make the open interview wise dynamite as an interview.

It's a globe news story.

I think it is more damaging to the Royal family and the Diana interview because it's of much bigger issue.

Diana's interview was basically about this rather dysfunctional germanic family that she had married into and capable of showing emotion driven her to divorce and Happiness know the rest of it, but it was a personal story what Meghan Markle is saying is

A bunch of racist bastard drove me to suicide.

That's a rather different agenda.

I think it's usually damp not to say it's true that matter and of course Oprah Winfrey never pushed either of them to determine whether it was true or not to push them on the agents to do a proper job is an interview as supposed to say is a softball coming up the leg side.

Just work it for 6, so I don't think Megan would understand that as well regardless of the veracity of it is hugely damaging and they will have to be a response before I had the heads.

I've not seen her interview before I had the headlines.

I thought the law family me just typing I'm just let it go let it be a 1-week wonder I've been such a

She's raise, the can't do that.

So it is a crisis time again for the royal family in preparation of this into your switch when you're most senior lieutenants about you.

They said the big question about and why do you keep going he's in his 70s in a man of significant financial means by hard work clearly got a lot of fat in you.

You're on the airwaves and you're launching something this will be faster big dick last major cake before heading off to the newsroom in the Sky engineer.

Thank you very much indeed for your time.

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