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Read this: Nicky Campbell talks to our guest host Steve Bland

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Nicky Campbell talks to our guest host S…

The radiator day programme with broadcast bionics creators of The Bionic studio listening watching reacting to and learning from every spoken sweet and SMS to a mix unlock and understand your content to the bionic studio transforms everything about radio except the way you make it.

Hello and welcome to the radio today podcast I'm Steve Bland and I presenter BBC podcast called you me and The Big C I've also spent many years working as a producer at BBC Radio 5 Live and that's what I met and worked with today's guest Nicky Campbell's been the voice of Breakfast at 5 licence 2003b you'll also known from The Incredible ITV show long Lost Family the big question the program and if you have a certain generation wheel of Fortune Radio 1 and Top of the Pops 2 he also presents a podcast called one of the family all about how dogs make the world and in a better place and as you're here a few times.

He's just written a best-selling book of the same name all about how a dog called Maxwell changed his life Nicky thank you so much for me.

It's a bit of a role reversal isn't it cos for so long we worked we work together and it wasn't that your interview with me, but you know I was kind of I was going to working for you.

I guess but

Different relation to hit from there to talk to you man servant in Worcester a little bit like that.

Let's go back a few years to a very young Nicky how did a young a young Nicholas Campbell fall in love with broadcasting and radio in particular well funny.

You should say that place to get a copy of my book one of the family is get a Sunday Times bestseller.

I actually I've been talking so much about stuff in the book recently about adoption about the wonder of animals in the back growing up in my sense of identity and trying to reconcile that was being adopted and always complicated and complex existential issues mental issues the psychological issues, but there's a lot of other stuff in and one of the things is how I fell in love with radio that nobody is really asked about so it's actually I'm glad you asked me that because it's a bit.

And it is your story directly I discovered when I was about 13 or 14 years old that you could quite easily get on the air on Radio 4 which was the commercial station in Edinburgh where I was maybe a bit older than that 15/16.

I mean I've always loved radio mum and always had the radio on and the Radio 4 plays and everything like that and I was just trying to be friends, then I got into music radio.

Just thinks all the radio on jokes and I just thought it was the most amazing thing to be able to sit there and speak to people in a Halogen you could play them records you can play the music that you were in a bedroom playing a friend's music, but it was going to be lots and lots of millions of people listening and just that way of communicating and connecting with people that was an amazing thing and then maybe.

Clever stuff for clever clever staff not clever stuff, but being creative and doing stuff in between so I love that and then I found out you could get on there.

You can get on there by phoning competitions on phone and phoning programs and it was just running program a Sunday morning on Radio Forth which is the current affairs programme for dial Webster and it was thermostatic itself very seriously and so I just basically every week called up being lots of different characters on the phone in program, and then my friends got onboard my friend Robert who's a clever boy at smack the pony and Green Wing and my friend Ian who was letting Glenn who is Game of Thrones so we'll sort of triumvirate and we with my love of radio is leading the way and so we were being you know professors of this and doctors have that an old one.

Morningsiders, lives have been told by vandals and self-confessed vandals and social workers and counselors, that was all us doing the different voices and obviously the other two you were pretty good.

We were pretty convincing doing it you like a vet advising on rabies one day.

I was doing it.

I did the vet advising Andre because there was some berzasca and Edinburgh about rabies coming from the continent brought into Edinburgh by wild dogs and my parents were doing the roses in the garden Nevis takeaway the small terraced house in Edinburgh and small the small bit of garden and then the road the main road, and they wouldn't put the radio outside and sat in the living room and washed them and put the radio outside beside them and I waited to go and I was on there that was my name is the vet advising on rabies terrible terrible terrible terrible disease.

That sounds like a quick does drastic solution or like a drastic solution, when is the only solution and I've got to go now.

I've got a diuretic horse in the living room and the line and they still believe you and I'm listening to and my mum came in with the gardening gloves on this year's might turn on the radio and then she came into the room and I said it like that single parent sometimes come across but they're not it was quite across but if they can I thought it was great and and and I did that a lot you know and I used to take the text to school you can set to school you be on the radio and crazy people and their competitions off phone enjoy whatever and put on cassette whatever cassette is and then take it into school and play that break time so I was playing at break time my radio days and then everyone was hanging out of it.

Into the class that was like a throng of people that one of those railway carriages hanging out trying to listen trying to get in and say that was my thing it's really good for myself dreaming about like to listen to what you were doing and that was my that was my interradio and I just excitement and never forget the excitement.

Am I want particular time random a friend Roberts house.

We will waiting get to get on the air and John is online one and when you're on and when you get here if you can hear in the background when you're on the radio is exciting feeling like that and haven't lost it that feeling still get the bus as you did you know when you were young lad you making those programs with your friends are still making his programs for the whole of East central, Scotland

The Nation's phone-in programme now and that was that was what I was doing an idea.

I've got I still get that exciting feeling of going on with that little because it's what I love is what I love doing and it's what I can always wanted to do apart from beer composer and rockstar and acting footballer you doing radio on a think and writing saying in an 86/87 and in a you come from you come from Scotland grown up to make any coronavirus been talking about what was it like all of a sudden jumping into into the bright lights of London broadcasting to in the UK Ulverston well, I went to Capital you're not before that ok.

Yeah, so that was my first thought of big London thing.

I actually I've got a picture of your hand.

Can I had a row with my girlfriend at northsound radio shows commercial radio station in Aberdeen I went under The Newsroom did DJ and stuff in The Newsroom I wandered through to the new the breakfast show on northside and I saw this advert in broadcast magazine and it said producer wanted for a capital radio so I thought I'll be so I put it in the post.

I got a call back or lettuce in fairness and they wanted to get me down for an interview to wind down for an interview and three of them.

Sat there.

I've never had anything for my adversity to Radio never done anything else, but pretty pathetic London did the interview.

I sent them a type of my breakfast programme and they said you know what we want to try on the air so I went down and I Saturday afternoon show which was normally hosted by Mick Brown

Make Mickey boy brown and I did that and loved it and put me on some through the night shows Friday and Saturday and Saturday and Sunday then I go out and do my breakfast on Watson and then they offered me the weekend breakfast.

It's Friday the weekend breakfast, but before that first ever show I was absolutely terrified.

I was my terrified of course that I ever had been even to go on ring and sing on Radio 4 or dial Webster or anything and I had to walk around the block.

I've been in London since I was 11 so I had to walk around the block at Warren Street member capital radio to use to remember.

It's big blue sign capital radio and really prominent psychiater a real landmark, and so I went round the block about three or 45 times and Kenneth Williams

Just up the road, and I just thought my goodness me first time in London for what I be done for the interview, but this was a big day the first time you know doing a show properly on the are going to speak and all these people like Kenneth William bloody hell and then I went in and I was terrified.

I was on at 2 and the open-plan office was completely empty apart from another part of the other side of it a little little office was mainly open plan but the little offices at the side glass window officers was all in blue and I'd like paper strewn everywhere entire space of the office records Record boxes in a wonderful Saturday afternoon messed with nobody there a camera on my god to Alan Freeman it's cloth Freeman and it was coming to us me and chain and the bomber jacket.

The cigarettes we could smoke in them days inside always had a cigarette on the are you on today and said yes, he said you nervous I said yes, I am a business is good cos he's not nervous you won't be any good.

That's so true.

Isn't it? You've got to be you got be a bit nervous to be good.

You got have a great so kind.

He was so nice.

It was amazing and I also got Kenneth Williams then in every single Carry On film that I ever saw the growing showbiz Legend raconter.

You know sample is fluff Freeman answer.

What do you want to come up and do a changeover come and do a changeover with EV I must admit the night before the other producergrind me up.

Can I ever it's on before you and you? I wouldn't recommend that you do a changeover.

Just going out to.

Evil destroy build destroy you so don't bother doing that so I thought ok.

Yeah that sounds so the other producer that was a David who went on to invent Who Wants To Be A Millionaire along with a couple of mates.

He's ok.

He said come up now to do a changeover with f and I thought oh my god.

I don't want to see the other man said not destroy me so tight upstairs, and I think the night before Tony the other pages and night before I'd rather speak to up a bit because everyone else said everything absolutely lovely, but I was terrified terrified anyway went to the studio and I sat there and back you know it's 1:50 and I'm on at 2 using this little world created this little world watching.

Steve Steve Wright it's just using his own little bubble is under the world of stuff and so I sat there and any microphone.

What's your name is Nicky Campbell tomorrow 2 and Dad and he said don't be any good or I still have you farted farted and drag down, Euston Road and it was all a bit of a laugh and he was fine and he was very sweet and that's that was cool and so it was it went alright apart from the fact that I think the first record was the Four Tops that I was I'd had it on I normally have failed to start and I've had it on the other one by mistake cos I've been on the other one before so I open the nothing happened.

So that was a bad but anyway there it was Kenny Everett

Freeman and I did capital radio for a year and a half then I got a call from the BBC and how did that and how did that come to change things in a did you have to change the way that you you broadcast? How did did you develop as a broadcaster when you join the BBC what a lot of people got in this picture here.

This is one of the pictures.

I had which people can't see about describe it.

I just had to have it over there with my conglomeration of over the years and it's so it's it's not very diverse.

I got to say you can see it now and you can get describe.

It is old men.

It's all the DJs on Capital radio so I've got left Richard Skinner with a post from Radio 1 who went on to split into the regular am capital radio.

Is it 15:48 remember and cfm Capital FM Capital FM which played this new thing right?

Please yeah yeah crystal Clear CDs ever always great this is amazing.

It's amazing where the technology has got scd2 is OCD based and I've got it was Conor Dire Straits all sanding crystal clear and smooth.

Ok, so he would eventually office in my timeless cfm started and it was the time when I went I remember going to the 67 the 20th anniversary Sergeant playthrough, but it was it was their beliefs must be before that anyway.

It was the release of the Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band CD went to Abbey Road whilst at listen to this listen to that.

That's incredible little did we know that vinyl was actually better if we were fooled into thinking it would be.

Is better by the novelty of it and there's me and it's Paul Gambaccini and there's Mickey by brand has Charlie Gillett great broadcaster who passed away years ago, but love this world music does David kid Jensen you did drive time is Jeff Graham was another Scottish DJ Christopher and breakfast greygables back that the Soul Show John Sachs and who I think he just voice-over agency Rodger Scott who was a great he died.

He was a brill music.

He did end up on actually do the Saturday Show already on sunshine radio on which was gonna music music music serious music serious music choice wonderful music taste is Richard Allinson as well.

Great bunch to learn from as young broadcaster.

Yeah amazing for you to go into that environment and I'm just gonna be a sponge.

You know soak it all up fantastic and people like in a gambo and floss and Terence and Everett's it all very and David and kitchen very nice over extremely nice mother's as well who were there.

It's not in the photograph, but basically what happened was I was on a bit of a screw you contract and then wasn't I was on non-stop like when David was on holiday.

I was doing was on holiday.

I was doing the breakfast so I was on about 6-weeks everyday and I was doing the weekend breakfast near me over a barrel aging came down from Aberdeen capital radio they said alright.

We're going to give you this for that sign here.

Great you know not a problem, but I was on so much that eventually I got a call from Radio 1 from a woman called Dorian Davies who was the head of music who is famously one and there's a wonderful story about it that they were playing walk on the wild side by Lou Reed on Radio 1 during the day and the light the line even when is giving head came on and she didn't know what it meant somebody up in the office explain I'm she came rushing down into the studio apparently.

Don't know who is on the might have been based across the studio.

He came down three floors and before the end of the Needle On the record off when she realised what was going on.

You got me unless you want a wig and she why is that relevant? I don't know it.

Just seems to be but she got me along and she sat me office her office and she said I like.

I like what you say with it which is always struck me as kind of Curious, and then Johnny Bailey in the controller came in and then they hired me and they sort of said ok.

We want to take you on because we need a Scott DJ they were trying to get diversity.


I wish I'd ever since I was there push for diversity and my god that was while you know time there was an experience while and experience going in there with all those DJs like Bates and Gary Davies and Dave Lee Travis and it was like going to Jurassic Park I don't mean that have Gary but so much as the other these people who grew up with you know on the pirate ships was like really and me and Simon Mayo and Liz Kershaw with the first and Mike Goodier the you later with the first person to be there Simon was there before who had professional professional parents so I've done.

Different generation my god it was interesting on the one hand you were in it and you're a part of it and the other hand you were sort of observing it thinking these people are busy this whole thing is crazy, so I can acid trip you know right Radio 1 Oliver's and then Top of the Pops you know everything like this sign in the studio is Johnny beerling a put up just to clarify approach which said one thought one link so is that must encourage you not to get too modelled between the record 101 link so don't you? Just just keep it simple and I remember thinking myself well some some here not mention any measures would be struggling to even put together one thought restricting it200 and who else was told my goodness me Bruno all sorts of people it was.

An experience lots of debts, but I think my first show was Saturday night, then moved of the weekend breakfast shows again, then I did lots of depths and my favourite time was the late night show from 11:50.


I was completely free range when it came to guess when it came to music choice and I love that late night 5 just speaking into the microphone and speaking to one person and connect with smoke swelling around the studio and the desk lamp desk lamp on and no one else in the building but of the security guy.

I love that and I did that from 1989 tonight and 848994 and I think of all the times and radio have Ida pinpoint one time that would be my favourite radio programme ever all sorts of amazing casts and I just used to go into the office to know what I play Louis tonight.

What can a wild side yeah, even then even when she was giving head and then I'll play Little Bo

Play Little country Opera or play Sex Pistols on whatever everything.

I just find everything and people responded to it and then what's a kind of running out about through all that just played what I felt like playing playing talking and running order out and it doesn't sound like you music, please.

I just want to play that record intimacy radio that can a picture you paint isn't it in a smoky room chatting one-on-one to a listener and then play the records that you love that's intimacy a radio that we all kind of love it and you can play your mood as well.

Cos I was going through some difficult times as well.

I need to play my mood and not in a bad way, but just just just something how you feeling with rub off on your music choice.

You take people with you and those people would responded it's really remember.

It's been happening for some time now.

When I am at work with colleagues and they say alright you got me through my GCSEs so whatever feeling that with my A20 A Levels are fantastic feeling that you've connected in that way through music of people say that REM session you did when they came in and played live on the Bee Gees came in Bicester the other or when you that you introduce me to that record somebody said the other day welcome to the Cabaret by Christy Moore you played you introduce me to that record you introduce me to that lifelong.

Love of my Morrison astral weeks.

I love over Morrison stop my first time I heard it was on your program.

So I think there's some people that was a musical education and John was on after me.

He was on after me and stages on before me that it was on after me Bob Harris wasn't very good friends Bob is a very good friend and John Peel was and that I tell you jump it was all the funniest people ever.

She could make you can make with a dry comment a well-honed dry barbecue make you cry laughing what a couple of people to be sandwiched in between the Kia mustard real a real education for you.

What do you think you you picked up during that period that maybe you should have taken forward.

I don't know I don't know but they had they were both broadcasters enormous integrity.

What does that mean? Well, they just didn't cut the cloth Runner when I just do what they wanted to do and also I mean they they said stuff and underwent phone is I can't deny that there was some difficult people on the station at the time in beings underwear a lot of could you make me stronger that was strange characters, which has been validated by some other stuff.

Some strange characters and some weird stuff going on when I joined Radio 1 ID ID a photoshoot my big photoshoot to join where the alarm was with Savile so he was leaving Radio 1 at the time to the best am off to go to the world service and he was like Legend Legend Legend Savile Jim'll Fix It and I said you going to do a photoshoot with Jimmy Savile and the stick was Jim fix it for young scot's DJ night and so that was quite terrifying but again it was only the situation Steve that was your you're in it but also you're standing at the altar standing at the side and you're not watching it.

You're watching it all happy and it was incredibly powerful is powerful charisma.

Is that you know that?

Cleaning professor Andy just of any take me to one side as the photographer was getting up the young man you just change the keys to open the Bank of England I thought strange thing to say I've that is really not my priority on joining Radio 1.

I'll be up to radio bingo northsound radio or anywhere because I love radio it's cos I love music.

I want to play records to people and I wanted to share that love.

I mean I mean musician as well.

I just you know so much in a part of me and I love that thing about getting people into my bedroom and set what is I want to play this record and when people love that record.

That's a great feeling same thing on my friend's house on a Friday night when you're 15 as is sitting on an asa sitting a studio national radio stations.

I want you to hear this record and that's why it was so good in those days because he can pick everything you played.

It wasn't coming out of a sausage machine.

You must say that but Savile saying that he said you've just obtain the keys to open the Bank of England I thought what take what I take on all.

It's all about it's all about brass.

It's all about it's all about making money and I'm bloody occurred to me at all.

Really know I'm it was a job ok job, but that's always some stayed with me.

It's not it's not it's not the worst of them, but I thought it was strange at the time.

Let's take a little fast forward now 2003.

I think you joined miss Top of the Pops in a carry-on 2000s it on BBC4 on a Friday night to mine is part of my childhood Friday night wasn't it this Friday night now on BBC Four people can people.

Friday night, but then as well Thursday might be Tuesday at one stage.

Yeah, it was Thursday sometimes you record on a Wednesday and Thursday sometimes it was live I did a few of those and they do play them on BBC4 on Friday night and I Know It song cause I might be having a glass of whiskey a packet of crisps reading the paper and watching something on the other channel and then I always take all his treats come in and say so I know it's on and then my kids are watching can't believe it and then say can you turn back again the other channel so is there any negative feedback you joined you doing capital than done ready around your profile must have must have just absolutely rocketed and obviously Top of the Pops on top of that.

How do you set a coat with the

Get more of it now, because it's social media than you know when good and bad.

I guess most people are nice most people are nice most people of distant human beings just this book.

I've done one of the family call Maxwell change my life that has been amazing.

You know people say lol that's my wife out.

That's not my life.

I really appreciated with me.

That's it.

Thank you very much for talking about your bipolar.

Thank you very much for addressing these issues.

I know that really that means everything he does mean everything and I think it's a tiny tiny tiny tiny amount of people who are nasty, but what I would say is that there was no social media about it.

I'm out I might I remember when emails started and we started getting emails faxes before that faxes and I think it was then that we realised that.

Oh my god this some horrible people out there will literally just want to be nasty.

You just who are listening you just want to put the knife.

And an email a little bit more and I think they've been Twitter on Instagram or whatever are then? I'm not sure.

I'm not sure if I am quite fragile and a lot of mental health staff told good now on it, but not not then.

I'm not sure if I would have been able to handle that I'm not really focused on that so much until now.

It's a good point.

I do it would have been really really difficult because all it does is it seems to it says the seat of self-doubt and somebody says somebody says something that you have that fear about in your and your deepest soul you think I might got that is something to be going adoption thing and not feeling in your own life and feeling that you don't you're not really worth it.

You don't deserve to be where you are because you should have been somewhere else.

I have somebody said something you think I see maybe they're right.

A moment of that when comedian lady Anthony one night on a programme when I was in five live at really really viciously and I was literally in bed for 2 days after it, but I don't know how I don't know how to cope with that.

How do people cope with it now? You know yeah mate.

There is no I mean Rachel my boyfriend.

So when she was on 5th with you.

She would get in a plenty of Praise but then the 118 wheat or the one other one text said her hair looks funny or whatever she's wearing that's funny on the on the webcam or or what did he say that it's that one message that kind of sticks with you, isn't it? Yeah? You're right.

You're absolutely right and yeah, she was great the great broadcast but does it is funny house sticks with you that one thing then going to be like 2000.

Talk about my blood I read that you join the breakfast in five live 2003 and you know I did I did five or six years on 5 Live breakfast producer.

I didn't have to get up early every morning.

You know just some of the mornings.

You've done it now for 18 years in a girl but the crack of dawn to be on from 6 or 6:30.

Is it is now how on Earth if you said of manning Stainton is what is it? It's kept me going for 18 years now.

It's something is most exciting show to do with some amazing people made some wonderful friendships, but I assist exciting time.

I do this you know welcome to the day.

This is what's happening.

I prefer late night.

I think about that show I did on Radio 1 but then late night lights to late night speech radio.

I wouldn't be able to play Walk on the Wild Side even when she was giving head so I won't get but no but

I love that show breakfast getting up.

This is what's happening.

This is the agenda you're with people there is an intimacy about as well breakfast.

There is a night as well.

There's a there's a kind of want a one-to-one as you could really connecting with people as they getting their heads together sometimes.

I haven't been able to get my head together getting up at 4:30 in the morning, but it is tough.

Yeah, I mean require nice to do something a bit later in the morning at one stage at some stage, but yeah, that's what that's what keeps the thing is you wake up at 4:20 or 4:30 get and stumble downstairs and think oh my god sees and then you can have a cup of tea and do just stuff and then have a shower and then get on get ready and you can get in and get into the studio and then you're reading stuff reading up on staff.

I'm an program starts at 6:30 and it's gone this is why I do it all of a sudden.

I'm on the air on Radio 4.

As a kid lying on a carpet with one of those 70s phones does groovy 70s phones and I'm I'm speaking I'm on the radio and people listening and his brilliant and I'm going to tell the missing I'm going to be able to tell them that I'm in this three times.

I've woken Tina up.

It was bin Laden's dead and I wasn't with the Manchester arena, a Trust jobs in Manchester with three times when I was here and I've had permission to wake her up at 4 in the morning but not immediate permission but she was glad that I did and it was Osama bin.

Laden's been shot Michael Jackson's dead and it was we're leaving the European Union and she's like and I'm charged with long with Rachel saying that to people who are waking up and that's

Ring privilege, you know we don't hold that lightly I had to say at 5 part 157.

We are hearing that David Bowie has died.

You know I said difficult to say that because of everything he makes me on my life, but you're the person you're the friend who's telling people.

It's amazing and it's an interesting one for a breakfast show to isn't it because you you don't you don't very often get things that happened to in the night.

I can I can recall I can recall walking in for a nice rest of the Boston bomb was news the Boston bombers breaking of course has to be the main story the following morning.

It's a challenge isn't it? You need to get yourself together that that early in the morning with something that's breaking on you.

I think it's it's not an easy and easy task for you particularly and the production team is on yeah.

I'm in there bro in a step forward.

Do Brilliant Things fixing people getting on the phone telling the phones thinking of who to get thinking of the right people to talk to for any particular story time? It's manic absolutely manic and for us.

It's mannequin heads sure but I see what those are a lot easier then the Monday morning showing there's not much happening in the lead story is a report from the Audit commission you know but those are the shows that you do actually spring into action and it's kind of what you're there for and even if your brain is not working on it doesn't work because it's so big and adrenaline running and pumping and the red lights on and you have to get this right to feel the pressure a lot more in that situation when people are eyelet assessing your your delivery your tone the way you describing thing with the questions that you're asking around.

I think I feel more pressure trying to send you know kind of articulate and on it with story.

I would be every store is important, but stories perhaps that aren't quite the stories that you want.

You know you're really telling people stuff.

I find those what's the waiting at those seat of the pants programs a lot easier because you fly with it and you go with it and I find out a lot easier than there are the more structured stagepro.

No program has stayed obviously because we're on live radio, but in relative terms.

I loved in a my best memories from Five Live were getting out and about think of some of the video be outside broadcast that we don't get a golf golf the open the Ryder Cup you know event to you know Glasgow or Edinburgh for Scottish independence day related things we do we did remember one that we did he went to a little village in in Surrey I think it was sorry lol Davina McCall lifting with yeah, it was to do with WWI

We tried to people about their relatives in the young man that died from that built in the first world war do you enjoy getting on about because it always struck me that you were very good at it was one time.

We were in a pub in Edinburgh and and and you just literally walked in and as a group of guys that in the corner and we had to do some isn't recording and you decide play microphone straight in it seemed very natural to you to be able to talk to these people just off the cough it seem like a real natural ways kill4u.

What's that something that you enjoyed? Yeah? I love it something you enjoy so that's why my phone is just talking to people I asked way prefer talking to what we call in the business real people real people I much prefer that captains of industry all politicians.

I just

I do you know getting the crack going you get some great insights get some fantastic insight the golf there was a press.

We're at the ghost press conference Ryder Cup wasn't it on Watson yeah, and remember infidels classic John because he has to get the press conference.

I think of the American captain who was sucking Tom Watson and everyone to the one of his lovely well here we are at this stage the stage where everybody is boxing and boxing on.

How does that mean boxing and kickboxing? What does a great great affairs aren't they early to be wondering around media village and all the excitement and

Bands in the lorries and I can remember interviewing now interview Justin Rose and and and you know I'm thinking about in a making into be different it holding two evils was all about whether he could recognise a Nokia ringtone from a Samsung ringtone.

When is bringing down down this remember that's brilliant.

I remember the good times has it been been difficult changing tack a little difficult the last year when you know 5 Live is always in a looking to be quite positive.

There's lots of light and shade has it been hard in the last year when you know when a good news at times, but we always have to qualify that I sing it.

Hasn't been half a stuff we got it easy as we're working but in in in in that context it in touch with us and their lives falling apart.

Just crumbling beneath them and the desperation that we've heard and the earning and the longing and the sadness and fears and Tara what's going on if you can quite understand.

What's happening even even with that we've got a head around it.

We can't really understand.

What's happening and yeah, go to you a bit.

I can't deny.

It does go through a bit.

I've had a few weeping moments on there and I'll probably cried about 10 times in my radio career since I was talking to people on the radio and I think 2405 been in last year just

You know you are returning to us which is such a privilege as well and that they trust us and this is his friends.

That's that's what I love that.

They do receivers like that and Rachel and myself.

We are we cherish that but it's yeah hearing that it's gone home and just yeah, but then when you're thinking and you're lying on the sofa and you and your pulverized by you think you know what I'm nice sofa in a nice room in a nice house with a nice job.

So just think it's maybe it's hard hard to say but you think the media in general the broadcast Media particularly has has done a good job covering over last year because it is difficult isn't it difficult to keep thinking.

Anyways to look at it different different takes on it.

Do you think that the broadcast Media in general has done a good job? I think it's been easier for us because when when in touch with people and people are in touch with us, so we've been tapped into it and as I said people see nurses wave asking questions getting questions answered telling us what it's like out.

There are inverted commas being a and having a national turbo cliche but true national conversation so I think I think we've we've been lucky in that.

We've we're powered by business and so that's I think I'm very proud of what 5 Live is done.

I think 5 Live has been amazing.

It's it's what fives for isn't it to be at the heart of things here for the nation when stuff is.

People need to work out what the hell is happening and we need to tell them I need to tell us about what we told them and they need to tell us about what they are actually living through what they are actually experiencing so I think 5 Live has been superb such a privilege having that was that was the right word.

He's always can I felt it as a producer of it particularly when you did you know when you were producing call the phone in it was a massive privilege to you know who created an environment where people were you know what comfortable and often and actually confident enough to ring you up and tell you some secrets.

They wouldn't even even Nearest and Dearest that's that intimacy about radio isn't that you feel like you're part of family and community and if you get one of those phone ins that maybe lot of people won't call but the people at the Hoodoo call.

The colours are amazing.

You know those ones.

Yeah, I mean get the big volume ones we got a big hole in one the other day massive volume one where we were basically saying Sarah Everard protests protest wrong word.

Sorry the Sarah Everard video what happened.

I get it turned into a bit of a protest and then what happened with police then Clapham Common about half a mile from where I'm seeing what everybody special.

What did you think about what you think about? What happened and T100 of gold on the other hand you can do one about.

Well cancer for example Amelia I can do it you can do what about you no 11 with the podcast is unbelievable we can do one like that.

You might just get for calls of that people who want to come on at all that you want to do you think they're still should be told don't get great volume.

You might get you a few doesn't calls but you might just get phone calls on but they're amazing and you can spend time with you.

You know the quality of it that you would set you would spend if you were doing a TV documentary was 10 weeks fixing that finding the people putting them on you know that and you've been a busy boy during the pandemic currently as well because we should talk about the podcast what it's all about how it came about.

Turn the family bits most of dog central not mentioned.

It's it's gone and found dogs focusing away, but it's that people on and I do features about stuff.

I'm interested in female Sciences in their behaviour stuff.

I've done guide dogs have done medical detection dogs after Ricky Gervais Kevin Bridges and all sorts of people Rachel's on soon talk about her puppy Rachel Burden is Lorraine Kelly David Lammy is the next one the MP so yeah, I know I love putting it together.

I do like a radio show not really like a podcast.

It's not yet.

I continue I love putting it together editing and the music for it as well.

I love doing that.

I might alright.

I'll probably music for every episode.

And record it and put it insert enjoy it and it gets it gets a good responsive also been phoning long Lost Family which is a wonderful thing to do is making this family big questions last one coming up in the current series that's been going 14 years amazing and yeah, that's yeah.

It's been busy and I was doing a lot of interviews for the book as well.

You said you do the podcast about like a radio show on podcast in into the broadcast journalism that kind of thing at a university and and I get asked asked a fair bit in a what's the difference between Uno radio a normal and Anton casting and wonder what what you would say in terms of your your job as a presenter, how is it different episodic so that's

I speak like the David Lammy one which is about to go out.

We spoke about his dog silver and the the different dog is little dog silver and made to the family in terms of giving them Bond around and talk about The Catalyst emotional catalyst that dogs can be until centre sentient being at the centre of everything sentient being at the centre, but everybody say gravitates towards and is it kind of emotional conductor forever so we was we spoke about that.

That's what dogs are wonderful qualities dogs have in bringing out the best in us and then we will get on to speak about adoption and adoption of his little girl.

So what I would do.

I treat it like a radio show and then do that and Dolittle musical Bridge and I might say what year was more from David Lammy I would do it like a radio programme yeah with that's just not do that because I don't really.

What would you ask me that question it's it's it's it's I mean I think you can do it and all kinds of ways that you can't you I think you're right to say you can do it in a very much like a radio programme but then the flip side you can do it at some of the ones that I I work on time Attenborough timeless.

We try and make them completely stand-alone like a box set maybe you come back to the many years time some of them end up as well the quite different in a 90 podcast of the same particularly over the last year the last year of a popping up everywhere with a different people doing them.

So it's it's a changing is there any interesting question from a production point of view as well, you know how you can edit them is a little bit different but now I'm in your pockets is fantastic.

I've heard of her.

What have you know Emma I'm going on myself.

It's just that down next is it is great? Yeah, it's going up to 9 years old now.

He's is days is fantastic and actually lots of the things that you've always said about your dog with you know we've often that talks about dogs and lots and lots of things have always had dogs have resonated a lot and he's a very is a very important part of the family has been for the last 89 years maxwells 13 nearly 13 and it's just said yesterday.

You can get up his back legs when it's just desperate.

I mean it's it's it's you.

Do think about that, but he still has he got plenty of spanking them in one sense, but he's he's in his life around for mice walk earlier on and loving and lovable and he still he still loving life and I I love him very much as well, but

Lorraine Kelly she's not really because when I spoke to her, but there's lots of different themes as well and that music I put between us speaking was my attempt at a time to listen to it and then put it out right.

I don't like to do that.

Let's try and clean up a little bit.

Yeah, you can get a bit clever with the best the best ones are recorded as live.

You know the recorded.

I don't mind if you Mum's and ours and you know I don't want it to be too polished you got a few of those in here and I'm just looking to see what was on the link anyone fantastic Lorraine Kelly on her precious dog Angus free speech wildlife conservation and the idiots who drink tiger penis tea, as the wildlife trade you know seriously has people and he said come on people who you know the problem is no tigers so that killing Lions for lying pianist in.

Businessman drinking lion penis tea and china getting all the parts because it gives them an erection doesn't a horror of dogs Dr Daniel Allen on fighting to change the law and Jodie farrier tells us the heart-wrenching story of firm still in 2013 reunited with her family 6 years later, so I did Lorraine was a lot of fun and it also had a lots of seriousness and passion and then this terrible thing of dog theft rampant and right at the moment because of the scarcity of dogs ever wanted dogging the price Premium on the key imagine.

It's heartbreaking.

It's been really really really wonderful to chat to you in and in there was a lot of time to you over the last 4 years in a plenty of stuff in there that I I never knew so yeah, thank you for sharing your radio story with us or thanks Steve I really loved it.

You'll edit it down to a decent 10-minutes.


Fibre 10-minutes of the great yeah that one but thank you very much and thank you very much Nicky as well another fantastic episode of the radio Today programme this week have I mentioned cleanfeed to you by the way that whatever you're doing and I'll be or your coasting a radio show and podcast clean is designed for radio ham for podcasters and it's simple to connect live audio over the web the quality is great near to record as well.

Clearly doesn't cost you anything to get stuff and you can see more at cleanfeed met.

Thank you very much for listening this week.

Thank you for following the radio Today programme at this is why might in here at catch all the news and views and stop going on our website of course at radio and will be back with another podcast similar to this but completely different next week.

South and Stacey

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