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Read this: #153 - BBC Four Goes Archive Only; Spotify Buys Locker Room; Time Out Revenues Fall

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#153 - BBC Four Goes Archive Only; Spoti…



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Hello and welcome to the media podcast.

I'm only man is Kay Burley leaving sky will she be joining team GB news.

We speculate wildly also the program has BBC4 start commissioning new shows what's left of the channel and it's mission plus Spotify by the next Clubhouse we look at the press outlets claiming furlough is about the state of the industry and we give you every Subway this is Nightmare in the form of army vehicles.

It's always come on this edition me today via the magic of etc.

It is planning director at Edelman Karen Robinson hello Karen so the media are hard at work.

Actively creating fake news As Anything caught your eye well, I have to confess to having been taken in by one at least for a little while many years and never actually been fooled by spraying but today in my neighborhood of Walthamstow I read a local Media report that Waitrose was coming to Walthamstow and got briefly excited excited that must have made you supposed to finish for quinoa and I thought this isn't that's not nice you get the slap in the face and you realise you're the target for satire also joining us former broadcasting exec and all-round media Guru hello Liz what do you think of April fools day as a tradition does it still have a place? Cos it does?

British countries, do they do but I'd like to put up a Volkswagen Volkswagen remember the very famous? I don't know in and Carry would remember but there was one that the garden did years ago.

I've had an island called salsa, and they did a whole extra supplement about this island, and what you could do on this island, when it grew and on and on and those in the know new that's on sorry for the font and it was sort of printers journalist type in Joe but I remember people I also remember when I was on Panorama they didn't think about spaghetti being grown in Italy I can absolutely I can remember my mother turned into my father and said he doesn't grow their does it Fred and you know they won't bother mother was particularly taken.

Realise quite how much easier than when people were quite so knowledgeable as they are now and they could be taken in a lot more by the April so worried about the April Fool that you become sort of grumpy and truculent all day.

I should say BBE and you made reference to that is also with this is LBC broadcaster or Edendale hello, Ian this isn't in April fool's.

We think you just breaking as we record that Kay Burley may not be returning to Sky News which uncannily was your prediction on the media podcast addiction special this year, wasn't it? Just I got one right anyway.

It doesn't look as if it's true.

I just checked her Twitter feed and all mentions of Sky News have been eradicated for it.

So it's been reported by the Express in the mirror and is about to start trending on Twitter as I don't think this is a great surprise.

I think it would have been quite difficult for her to go back to that job and the question is what will she do next to go she started start on Sky News

With Andrew Neil back in 1989 that people will naturally draw the conclusion that she will go to 2 GB news that they've already appointed two female presenters for that so Kirsty Gallacher and Rosie Wright not impossible that she could never really wanted to do breakfast at Sky did she's going to put on breakfast because you know they will need to do something with her breakfast because it's quite recovered after that is true, but given that they filled up most of the rest of the schedule.

I'm not sure what else she would fit but does she think they're so the present to type anyway.

I'm not sure she's particularly right-wing chorizo is how you're raising your hand is it to say that you can have a breakfast with more than two women have more than I do think about it anyway, because they count up in from what I could see they've got 14 names that name presenters and 5 of them are women so.

You don't seem to be the bigger names are so big name like Kay Burley would be a real a real cool, then I would have thought we mustn't say you know how it's breakfast therefore.

It's got to be women on the ground to make you breakfast.

I don't know what that thing is.

I mean k is a very competent to understand could go anywhere in the schedule and do extremely well.

I would think and they can always with something like that squeeze is this weekend to cover there's all sorts of things going on in the schedule.

Do you think if all the presents that do provoke a reaction but do you have very strong flavours are migrating a 2 GB news and possibly this new Murdoch effort Sky News might be looking not to replace them with equally spiky people but actually Bernice for Sky News might be to look even more like the BBC yeah.

I mean I can tell you that it's guys strategy.

I mean the news is a lot.

So they really use it as a reputation underpants Horizon they use it to drive trust in affiliation from monks there.

Stakeholder audiences more chosen to drive a commercial audience or or a consumer audience as much as they obviously you know it's Kai they always want there waiting to be maximized for them about credibility and reputation and they've done a great job with the new service of of building up that credibility and reputation to I expect they will be looking for presenters that have a lot of gravitas rather than as you say spiky ones in the next round will ok, let's get on with some other stuff, but well done in for correctly predicting that back in December we can start BBC there's nothing quite to compete with the seismic flood of announcements that we pulled over inelastic butterbean have quietly this week.

Let it be known that BBC4 will no longer produce new shows and will become an archive for the broadcaster sort sounds for me a bit like those.

They're essentially ring from the TV version of Radio 4 to the TV version of Radio 4.

Extra do you think people will notice the difference the Difference and one of the things that I'm interested in investigating?

Can't see any worries if they're going to still be taking material from European and Scandinavian channels which is something I really liked about BBC4 to get some really interesting drama on there and that's what I went there for I think the idea of an arctic channel is interesting and could be quite sensible and storage BBC sweet, so it's not going to be necessary necessarily all bad news things have got to change and BBC4 if they're building up BBC Two BBC Two so I don't think it's necessarily awful be encounters ruining a fabulous National Treasure I think it could be quite a sensible evolution.

Yeah, I suppose the question politically because there's a dimension to these decisions these days is whether a channel of repeat is a good use of the licence fee or the digital spectrum and well.

That's something they can justify it might might be able to say.

What is the best way to get ready for a lot of people think the BBC1 and BBC2 become as well, so I'm not sure this is particularly innovative me.

I actually don't think it's a bad what I think it would have been the same to read a BBC4 as I know you were speculating on one of the recent additions of This podcast I think that they have such a vast archive if they can make it have a popular appeal.

I don't mean just repeating things like Only Fools and Horses and things like that, but they have so many dramas.

I have so many documentaries that don't see the Light of Day for years and years nothing.

They really make the most of it could actually get a much bigger audience and then he gets now then how often will watch BBC Four but I would say it's kind of once in a blue moon and it's almost I always thought BBC4 was BBC2 light in way or heavy in some ways that they could I see the other week they had a thing about Welsh poetry and this is that really something for us of nasty.

I'm sure it is what is it so can both years and have made the point that you can see a lot of similar stuff on BBC2 this might bowls to BBC Two ident if you see what I'm saying he was tweeting about with regard to The Thick of it.

He was saying well.

That looks will be before if that hasn't happened there be no Veep because you know The Thick of it wouldn't let him the Newbridge with lead to be that actually true ID of commissioned to make a new political comedy for BBC2 when you but you need to give credit as a place to get started indeed slightly risque things in slightly things that the filter slightly different money in so I don't know if it's going to be you know the End of the World as We Know It for Channel 4 to switch to that, but I do think it's BBC 40 such that but it's a bit of a shame in that the suspicion is that it's going to mean you know the net number of new programs produced is going to be for you.

Means each number of pretty new program produced is going to be that little bit risky and therefore you know perhaps a little bit safer.

I think BBC4 with a place where you can you could be a little bit more proportionally sync external international product and I'd like to know what's going to happen to that as much as about the production itself because production will find a place that will be in areas and where were they try out the new production weather in BBC4 was the rights of incubation for production.

I don't know anyway.

It was really busy to get onto BBC Four all the other areas for that, but I would like some reassure scandi-noir as I'm going to go away but not Clarifying that so yeah, but they've said they will be new storyville still on BBC Four and they will be international shows.

Used to watch that kind of slightly nerdy kind of Neil Brown Mark Kermode stuff, but that's so BBC you know this idea that will do an hour-long program about her George Gershwin that's what I've lost on BBC4 is right at the beginning.

They used to lots of political documentaries, which I absolutely love things that may not have ever been done on BBC2 they haven't been doing those for several years BBC 2 has stopped doing them with Michael cockrell used to obviously hour-long documentaries nobody's doing that now that the effectively the BBC Politics department been abolished and it's all been subsumed into news news.

Don't really make programs.

They make news programs, but they don't really understand men trees and I really worry that on the BBC now.

There is little outlet for proper documentaries that both and I'm not a hope.

I'm not saying too much like and I will get it but those ones that we used to remember.

I'm sure this is involved in commissioning a lot of in the 80s and 90s it I think it's a real shame that the public service broadcast this country is no longer doing that kind of thing I'm not seriously now.

Let's move on to audio now and Spotify have found yet more money than the sofa at this time.

They've gone and bought a live audio social media thing known as locker room.

It is part of a deal but include parent company Betty Labs Karen what do these words mean that I'm saying well, I'm still working out myself, but locker room fundamentally years.

They call a social audio platform currently focused around sport so I think the presumption is that a temple sports a really good opportunity for live audio because obviously can do the community around it really I think the intention is that they would take that technology probably we brand it work for something a bit broader than just sport and and launch it out there probably I'm not being sort of like a clubhouse can.

Something similar I think there's a lot of proliferation of these of these platforms.

I think a lot of them all fail, but I think Spotify have been aggressive in trying to position itself to to completely dominate the audio market place.

So this is yet another example of that and I wouldn't bet against their strategy there.

They're pretty dominant right now things that people look at this kind of thing and Clubhouse was the first 2 remake ways and think what is this going to kill podcast is this going to kill radio as if there's always a winner, but it seems like completely new space this idea could live interactive audio phoning but I mean he's kind of you in the sense that it can exist alongside always new advances can be in parallel.

You know canals didn't die because of railways in that you know video didn't kill you.

Radio star on all of that stuff but I actually have a problem understanding what this club has thing is so probably could explain that to me before I can't even begin to opine.

I mean having read through acres and material and what do I do with it when I get it? You'll have to be doing Sports at the same time or something rather? What is it? I keep getting invites to Clubhouse and I'm thinking I don't really know what it is.

I probably will join it just to see what it is at some point, but there's only so many hours in the day to do social media reach things and I spend half my life on Twitter I'm not particularly interested in getting another social Media platform, but then again if I do sign onto I'll probably become addicted and loved it when I saw this locker room.

I thought it was a Donald Trump podcast I think you're all new things are welcome some as Karen said some will fail some will succeed and those it's a generally deserve to and.

Defy, I don't really use Spotify very much but they are able to spot winners aren't they are very very good at that.

I feel like I should I should just say Felicity and benefits, so Clubhouse the one who uses music video and I use it for a couple different purposes we have there's a regular drop in discussion for fellow American expats that happens on a weekly basis that I've participated in its of crisis or sense of community, but I think one interesting case study is I'm I'm also a regular guest on her podcast where the podcast is recorded by a clubhouse in the only difference to that is that the only members can be invited in so if you want to do a queue if you're a podcast here you can do it by a clubhouse.

There's some facility to get audience members in to ask questions, so I mean I think it has its limitations, but it also has its opportunities.

Old are you to invite those listeners in people have to start talking over you and then on the show you can still shut them down and you can you can choose their name? It's pretty little Pretty open platform you saying that it could be a competitive phoning slightly facetiously but actually is kind of my Spotify interested in this space.

You know that they're obviously looking for radiostyle links in your daily playlist of pre-recorded podcast in this startup you can imagine it would be a threat to talkSPORT for example if they had a live phone-in about the football.

I think it's the key is getting the audience in the first place and we all know when you start something out whatever it is no matter how much money you've got behind you it's not automatic that you get an audience for anything.

Are you you look at shall we say some radio star on top so for the last 4 years who found it incredibly difficult even when they've got a big name behind them to get this mass audience.

The best are presenters will actually want to have so I think in the sports area that there are lots of niches within sport that may be more difficult to find another another massive market for Sports podcast now in I listen to 405 football podcast have any discovered three of them over the past 3 months and they are literally newstarts and it but the word of mouth that makes them popular now it can you have enough words of mouth to make this sort of thing popular.

I'm not sure you're a West Ham fan.

Don't you? I am in God I've never asked this question my life, but what is the best West Ham West Ham podcast is called more mwo re by Bobby for your information Ollie Moore than just a podcast and it's for fans at iPlayer on This podcast occasionally but they record on a Monday night, which obviously can fix with the day job so I don't do it more often now.

They basically spent 2 to 3 hours talking about the

West Ham related news and I listen to Around driving home and it is just like listening to 4 minutes down the pub chat that you choose a show that you're on this intensive business to buy Friends Reunited you remember when everybody got terribly excited about something seems to be going to work and then in the end it really did the series there is this chasing after something at the often quite dangerous and can really be very a bad strategy for the original purchaser, so I don't know I've been carried is probably the best place to stay with her and she thinks this will work well.

It's finally on that Karen the reason Friends Reunited didn't really work for ITV by the time.

They worked out what to do with it was in this case Spotify I suppose is the Facebook

Yeah, well, I mean it is certainly spotify's ambition To Be the Facebook of audio and I think there are you know they're taking your similarly as if aggressive strategy to put Facebook a diamond buying up WhatsApp and Instagram they're buying up things and I think I think Spotify is aware of the derby winners and losers in each of the different areas they making their beds in and clearly their intention is to kind of put their money behind what they think is a good bad and then get power to put themselves out put that one in the winning position doesn't mean there isn't robust competition now.

There is so will be really interesting to see what comes out on top ok what we talking about nothing sort of actually let's discuss the new serial production.

That's about to drop the improvement Association have you had the trailer I haven't heard the trailer but I know which I'm super excited about has anyone heard the trailer IFor the trailer I can tell you it's quite know about election fraud.

Isn't it? Which should be quite a lot of?

As well because there's a component about race in it, but I was listening to that kind of 2-minute trailer not know the whole story and just thinking not sure I want a deep dive with this presenter on this subject, but maybe this fascinating.

I mean it's a story that I followed really closely from my you know my political bent but in North Carolina there was a house election us house election it was appear to be won by the Republican Kennedy until it turned out that the Republican candidate had been conspiring with a consultant to the campaign running a valid in a registration outreach game just taking the vote of the most the african-american people have been working with and just dishing number for actively or feeling about Friday lately so fascinating about it.

Is this is the kind of rumour that flies around but it was just robustly proven and there was.

Drama around it was his son son who actually expose the campaign so it was it was a really fascinating weird story in resulted in I think for one of your own times in US history has overturned and how to rerun the election because it was it was so clearly fraudulent.

So it is a fascinating story.

I would be surprised if the serial team anything good out of it, but sorry to hear that the Year presenters.

I'm just saying I guess expectation is so high that one of the Blockbuster brands now on playing podcast I expect to be completely blown away when I press play and I wasn't maybe there's more competition out there these days or I don't know it.

Just didn't it wasn't hitting the mark for me in the way, but that's very first for the moment.

You press play.

Can you send a picture to another podcast from the sofa from Lady team?

Any wine from the New York Times team and I'm sorry from the from the American Life team and the serial team looking at a really interesting story around the Newark school system in endemic racism.in but also kind of what happens when where why parents show up and exert their influence on schools.

It was really fascinating.

I learnt a lot from that.

I didn't expect we will have more media news in brief after this hello.

I'm Lorraine candy, and I'm helping where from the podcast postcards from midlife and we're on a mission to help women make the most magnificent midlife from careers and parenting to start health and everyday living where are all the lookout for the things are going to make day-to-day living just a little bit easier and way more fun and fabulous managing the weekly shop if you never seem to have enough space in your fridge freezer to fit everything in that you need to keep the family fed for a week.

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You know why you're on trial here three BAFTA nominations including best film and golden the best screenplay deadline calls it the best film of the Year overthrow the government peacefully in this country.

We do it every four years the trial of the Chicago 7 only on Netflix

Discuss the media news in brief first up some furlough news news companies across the UK of continued needing financial support from the government according to press Gazette that includes regional publishers jpi Media Archer Midland news the Guardian who were the only national newspaper to use the Thurlow scheme, but aljazeera and Tortoise Media join the scheme in January for the first time it is and city am with the only publisher to reduce their fellow payment that say about the health of journalism fellowship agenda, so should be working on all the things.

We need to know at the moment.

I think that's quite concerning.

I think it's concerning that the Guardians gone for the furlough scheme.

I don't really know what they're what they would have to do that.

Just makes me feel very uncomfortable to be honest it just doesn't seem right.

It's a bit like you know nurses are wrong further isn't it? Well on that in the Guardian

Play really pride themselves on having this unique business model and having the Scott trust you know but they can invest in journalism.

I mean of all titles.

There's a question mark about whether they should be using the fellow scheme at all.

I don't know how much the Scott Trust have squirreled away, but certainly remember a few years ago.

It was rumoured to be around the billion pound Mark so it does slightly stick in your craw when you payoff asking the taxpayer for funding I thinks much smaller regional local newspaper publishers are in a bit of a fix and the story that the price was that was about time out now you can understand why timeout would be in difficulty because I've got nothing to report on so I don't think anybody is going to have a problem with them resourcing to earn money in the end.

If people who read the Guardian don't like the fact that they resorted to this.

They will stop reading the Guardian and the customer Innocence it is Kenya if you just leave something you withdraw your customer but then.

Regards to put more people on the timer example of interesting isn't it? Because it has been especially hard for free sheets because their distribution model has gone people on tube stations to pick up their free copies Indian says there's no one advertising events are happening in London and as a result yet timeout media store revenue plunged 58% in the second half of 22, but could there be a bright side there if they just managed Klingon long enough you people talking about the post pandemic roaring 20s.

I mean timeout could be the place to find out about it could be an absolutely brilliant publication and I wish them well.

I think it is noteworthy that one of the reasons.

Why they're there figures.

Look so so particularly poor is that they had a very strong corduroy before which suggests that their commercial model was working reasonably well, you know they had switched.

They were touching away from Carnival lying on the print publication and towards you know as he said more freesheet distribution in.

Seems to be working reasonably well.

I think they were in a pretty healthy position so all the more painful for them to have had to go through this but as you say it feels like a situation or problem rather than a problem for them.

So I've ever hope that you know we would love to see them come roaring back there.

Obviously had a lot of value to to the London seen the big challenge now.

I think for everybody were there are published in the media is the thing ok? What is the second half of this year going to look like and how can we maximize our commercial advantage from it and there is going I hope this is another prediction.

I get right.

I think the economy and the next six months is going to go gangbusters there all sorts of dangers in that but the government may be worried about inflation, but I think for all sorts of all good commercial organisations.

They get their strategy right for the second half of 2021 and the first half of 2022.

They could be incredibly successful and also the opportunity to take some of the learning's from the last year and a half about how you can.

To work from home, how it can be cheaper to use staff in a different way and actually make a product that might be more popular and generate more money that cost less to make absolutely excitement, but you know all those holidays that you don't take you got that money.

So there's a lot of people sitting on quite a lot of ready money to go out and have fun and enjoy so I might even saying because if there's all this money.

They're ready to be spent people going to want to spend it on things and that will feed into a short term huge boost the economy, but on the other hand it could be the Friday dying and doesn't do anything with it on their money, but I think the psychology is going to be more to spend spend spend.

These are the things that are actually if you think of them is the original London magazine has been running for 50 + years actually in the last year and a half they have been better off Karen wouldn't they stick with the subscription model I mean that's the one sector publishing there's been reliable is people getting magazines.

That was a subscriber until they basically told me I couldn't be any more because I love the magazine and have they been able to keep my custom then perhaps mining people like me.

They would have had a little bit of a blanket to cover them to protect them through the hard time so maybe that maybe that resiliency is something will have to be thinking about in the future because this is surely not going to be the last prices that we will indoor subscriptions is very interesting people all sorts of subscriptions whether it's subscribing to be in a choir or subscribe to a magazine or whatever.

This because there's always that hope of normality and is also supporting an organisation which you really value subscription model is is really cold to keep the finances going but they'd already moved away from that night.

I totally agree with the small amount of subscription.

It would have been there probably wouldn't go through this is a massive disaster for something that's marketing event because there aren't any event trusting as well that definition of subscription vs.

Support and we were talking in the last episode of this in podcasting Context about subscribe follow, but in media consumption terms now as well.

I mean that's what the gardener asking you to do is it support their journalism? It's not subscribe to the product to give money for nothing in return additional to what they can get from reading it for free and isn't it funny were criticizing the BBC for not looking at the subscription model and it may be that subscriptions are already out of date.

Eleanor Mills the former Sunday x x x who's resigned from the Society of editors bored? This is a continuing Fallout from Harry Meghan interview cross-reference episodes passed his needs to do to get on top of this narrative is the way to modernise anyway.

This is like a lot of things to do with broadsheet newspapers very male-dominated.

I sympathize with the sun that has taken here.

She gave him time.

They didn't come back and I think she did the right thing it's not Piers Morgan and you know she was there at temperature in the way she dealt with it.

She went to them.

She said she thought the response is inadequate she waiting for response and it didn't come so quite right too and I think that the idea that somehow you can say we're not racist.

It's just too simplistic and who's racing who isn't good.

It's just there ok and it's not like that.

So I'm 100-percent behind Anna on this.

She seemed to have been given the Assurance that they were going about to make a statement climbing down.

What happened before essential acknowledging the elements of the British Media do have a problem with bigotry and then never made that statement if somebody gets in this come on we all need to check up with it and know that sounds very welcome whatever there is something about work.

We should really good and that's one of them know.

That's why the Society of editors exist.

Doesn't it? Because it can be an umbrella organisation and they can be under that and I think the whole thing is just too pompous and it comes from a very old-fashioned sort of damp point.

I don't know if you know degree.

I think so, you know been a bit anyone would think that I would think that I don't I'm worried.

I'm being a comeback.

I bruise like what you said that Eleanor Mills is a friend of mine.

So that that might have influenced Simon what I say, she's to commission meeting.

Usually long interviews article Sunday Times magazine delivered about double length of words.

I should have done but I think that she has an absolute point here if you doesn't matter whether it's Society of editors or whoever in US Society nowadays, if you haven't as an organisation looked yourself in the mirror over the last year and so are we doing what we all have we got a problem if we have what we going to do about it.

I think most organisations have had that conversation with those conversations internally certainly Barrett organisations.

I'm involved with have and it's absolutely right to do that another Society of editors stamp that says no we have got no problem whatsoever and yet we as the newspaper buying public website viewing public you that some of them absolutely do and I don't expect the editor of The Daily Mail to go on television.

So yes, we are racist newspaper.

I don't actually believe that a racist newspaper, but they have had articles they've

Headlines that could lead people to believe that they are now they are slightly but they will say well of course we now know that a lot of that interview a lot of the Meghan Markle said about interview have been proved to be factually incorrect.

So they could they can sort of lean on that as much as they like but they still have a problem and they still have something to deal with and I need you but Karen what Eleanor Mills wanted was for them to come out and make another statement apologizing for the statement they made before and I mean that's what you do.

Isn't it took two brands about Dr and stuff.

I'm in Front from their point of view.

Would that not just sort of add a whole second acts to this whole Saga which they're embarrassed by and they want to close and they're not having a conversation internally they just might not want the whole world to be part of it again.

So if your device as a PR professional I would point out they're having the second after right now and then on control of it right.

So they put out an amazing in control of what the next version of the story is going to be.

Whereas with a small amount not even didn't have to be a miracle but I didn't have to be a rendering of the reading of the clothes it could have just been a simple look clearly with you know we've missed a position.

Obviously you know there is work to be done a little bit of humility goes a long way and you don't have to say that you think the entire industry is rotten from top to bottom you can just say that all industries in my goalkeeper.

We all have to work on and on overcoming our inherent bias.

That is something we take seriously and and by the way we would like are minority staff members to work for the for organisations to understand that we hear them and we take that seriously it would have been easy to do and it would have solved the problem for them.

Very quickly one last Newsroom news story ITM have warned Ofcom that they risk creating a news desert within the next two years and this action is taken to give great prominence to high quality news outlets.

Icma submitted to Ofcom I don't really understand what they're asking for what what do they mean gave prominence to high-quality news as we all know which outlets they are what what they want a little stamp in the corner of the screen, please you probably I'm guessing might have more sympathy with this what they want is what they had before on Sky which is provenance.

They want that on YouTube and Facebook don't know that's what I interpreted it to me.

How can that happen Netflix what am I going to see you? I'm very bloody sympathetic towards ATM I think they are often overlooked in the BBC there a great organisation and great news, but I'm a bit vague about what they actually want as well, but I wasn't sure at all.

What it was that they were asking for because it's not as going to be a news desert.

It's going to be that there's a new smorgasbord of all sorts of crazy news outlets.

That's the problem.

Problem at all, it's not used to be able to go down there could have the whole conspiracy theory news channel, so there's no difficulties about the ratio of a desert is not one of them and what they want does does baffled baffle me too, but we must remember that they are an excellent used in terms of expense that the money is already gone in to making the news the prime source of news, so actually reproducing the news on other channels is not a great expense I don't quite get too expensive for other organisations that use you can't actually say to all providers of broadcasting material.

Have you got to have a news, but it's got to be itno I know that the trying to say but it's not practical in of their responses and practical enough.

I don't think it's complicated.

It's just if you've got trending news on your service.

They're saying the publicly.

Staff should be there and shaking her head so you've got in Karen to the complications of it, but equally I would say it has been a big problem in the in recent years that as you rightly say that it's difficult to ascertain which is the quality news outlet which services we can trust there has been and I mean edelman's Trust data has shown that there's been a system-wide interest across the piece in media as well as in government in in pretty much everything and so there's this loss of gatekeeper function has been a problem.

I need is both technically possible you probably in the best interest of the provider is to find a better way of signalling which which sources of news can be taken as reliable with some.

Application in which are not I think the Facebook is in a very poor job of trying to do that their efforts have been pretty pathetic so far and I think it also is a problem in terms of if you look at the landscape in terms of people's changing behaviours.

I think if you look at streaming services Netflix etc.

I mean you can argue.

They have a lot of a lot of news actually not consumed in a news like format.

They were they have had lots of documentaries and social work, so they don't really have anything that we would consider to be a regular news updates, so I think it's not unreasonable to say that we should think about this maybe not maybe I T and hasn't handed them a ready-made solution, but I think it's it's something that would be in the best interest of both the consumer and I would argue the to find a way to make that were better.

What would it look like? What would I see when I was going to get this the Public Service Broadcasting news element when I'm doing my

But you know on Facebook it could be as simple as given more prominence two more trusted outlet which is something that they've tried to do them.

Just done a terrible doubt it when you're cooking on trending news.

You are presented with live news stories and one of them is always from one of these PSB but this is this is a typical attempt of existing media companies trying to stop new entrance coming into the market because they are scared that they will lose market share to these new entrance you look at the Barrage of criticism.

That has been aimed at GB news before it's even broadcast a single second of news out on which the British Fox News well, engineered is absolutely adamant.

It is not the British Fox News will see when it comes on are they the BBC ITN and to an extent sky will have a vested interest in this in keeping new entrance out of the market.

They're not going to be successful there an international world as well, and I just wondered whether all of us being a bit more Media

Your average news consumer.

I mean if you're talking about someone who lets say is in their 20s and lives in Britain and is presented with a news story from our tea and a news story from Deutsche welle and there in Britain and they don't know which one of those is more trusted.

They're both just for a news outlets.

Not every 20-year old is able to navigate that in the same way that the people who run the simple of comb draw the licence from RTE is the simplest and it is not a trusted new service we all know that we know that it's funded by the Kremlin we know that it's completely biased and I don't understand why it's still on Facebook it's less material isn't it you talking about? I'm not going to get into your question about TV news because you say we haven't seen it yet, so we don't know what it's going to look like but a lot of the new entrants to the market.

How many of these platforms are not actually needs providers all their malicious prepared.

Pause news under the guise of delivery working very hard to make themselves look like credible outlets and consumerism is informed and I think it's you know it is a problem and I don't think we can just wish it away by saying the market will decide because it hasn't and it won't the new entrant many of the new entrants are just not credible sources of information.

Is that to take my demographic it might not be the younger people don't know that the News at Ten is on ITV it might just be they don't want to watch it, but just not interested, but if it's if it's British to be prioritised over other outlets which are not doing journalism in anyway in any meaningful way to reach your demographic create a strategy to do so I'm not aware that they actually have them.

They don't have a 24-hour needs child.

I don't remember seeing clip after clip going viral on Twitter from ITN but I see that from Sky

See that from the BBC News you do you class as opinionated news as well as well and talk about cricket.

I'll be nice because BBC local radio has secured the rights to county cricket in England and Wales for another 4 years coverage of cricket in local radio and is it good for cricket fans in you told us to listen to football podcast with cricket man as well, I do like cricket, but I could think of nothing worse than listening to local radio cricket commentary of a county cricket match.

I'm thinking audience must be in the dozens or the hundreds for that and you can say all those Public Service Broadcasting but I mean you only have a limited amount of hours to broadcast in a day and the one thing isn't in.

This is how much the BBC of paid to have this privilege and I think I could probably think of better ways of spending that money depends on the audience appreciation index.

Oslo doesn't it?

The audience were listening love it going on here appreciation and he likes it does seem to have some arcane indoor Sports on there an important way of life and therefore should be reflected by the BBC but don't seem to come in it except if it takes time away from things.

I would like to listen to Mostly online waiver medium wave.

I think stations broadcasting it exactly exactly is it a problem? It's sort of like.

I don't really know why were talking about it.

Sorry.

I don't want to be rude about this wonderful podcast he doesn't really rock my boat.

I don't want other people watch to it that might be the story.

I'm in local radio have been able to get the rights of this because probably there aren't any national media players are interested in it going what is probably know.

PlayStation 4 think about how many people you see going to the county cricket match and that will tell you the level of interest in this we also the BBC I think of million with Sky millions of pounds the right women's football now, but may send a signal it may send a message but how many people are actually really interested in watching them sort of the extent.

They have to go to a match when I run UK living we did already nice lining women's football and we got really quite good figures for it.

It was really quite popular with local cricket dam in the USA women's football team does much better commercially than the men stay in there for more fans and then another men's national team so so yeah pick up to the girls.

They should give it a chance in all this West Ham stuff sounds like a bit too much to me.

Why don't you diversifying? I'm going to lay my cards on the table watching women's football is like watching it at 30.

Third RPM compared to the men's at45, I don't think it's entertaining.

I'm sorry.

I'm not that I'm really not I'm trying I'm not being sexist about it.

I know what you're going to say.

I am but I just don't get enjoyment out of watching even if it's first time women playing on BBC 3 about that that was actually quite interesting but as a sport.

It's not it's just not the same.

Is it the case within the media landscape though, there are so many narrow indecent race are not saying women's football is necessary one of those but certainly is you say County Cricket probably is there are so many of those sorts of interest at their best catered for by the use of podcasting and you know channels on discord whatever did they are on local radio these days till public money being spent on it.

Is it and not that there are so many different outlets now for everything and she say I was listening to Laura kuenssberg confidential Podcast episode podcast.

What's happened and it was quite own at times? It was quite funny.

You think this would never get onto Radio 4 because of it that the format is it was very podcast you think it's great that podcast exist and the existent there lots of non-league football podcast and lots of lots of really nice sports that none of us would be remotely interested in but you don't always have to chase the biggest audience I suppose podcast exist which brings headlong into our final format points the media podcast quiz this week.

It is entitled backwards thinking I will reduce the news headlines from this week in reverse order you just have to tell me what the story is the three and you buzzing with your name if you know the answer so lazy also history number one, but what's the story BBC leaving after news gb2 McCoy Simon son is leaving.

Used to go to GPS yes, what do you think? Yeah? I do I like sewing and he's quite unusual sometimes which I've known him for a long time is very professional and I would have thought temperate sort of person which I wouldn't have expected to find Simon on British TV show that placing to Ian's point about we need seen nothing yet, but the only thing is I don't think we've got high profile profile enough women so watch this space again by the time it comes out.

What's the story doesn't let me know the answer is that again slower algorithms information Facebook buy Hitman daily you literally just need to.

Got the story Ian Daily Mail information close enough.

Yes is the Daily Mash was excluded from Auntie missing formation algorithms even arity satire a good and I've lost track now.

He's winning but anyway review strategy.

I'm in the library televised number clearly was there in front of the phrase number 10 press briefing room.

That's B&B was used for the First Time by Boris Johnson this week.

I think allegra Stratton is her day little three times a week briefings on the 17th of May six months later than planned the whole things cost 2.6 million.

It does look a bit Kremlin s.

Doesn't in the in the game.

It's a bit Gaudi well.

It was a bluescreen it Karen was just seems like a basic fail doesn't if they don't want to be Darren done all the way I can only assume that they did it on purpose because they have set themselves up perfectly to be.

Find maybe they theorized that they brother brother generator movie and negative memes and be heard then then go silently into that good night who knows you need Whitehouse style briefings fascinating things to watch in the ministration has been how well we all get along and the media Lens without having daily White House the White House press briefings have been very effective benjani done one press conference in it's gonna be fine from the podium of the white house all the time you put up the information from the subject matter experts.

Do we know almost Donald Trump's press conferences and I come and whatever you think about it was box off TV was buying something.

I'm sorry it was it was a complete and utter snoozefest a president or prime minister in the modern-day needs to do more than one press conference.

Having said that I can't read the last time Boris Johnson at the moment is £120.

I mean that doesn't seem like a very funny right now.

I think she can I just say something.

I think it's quite talked about going gentle into that good night.

Which is a quote from Dylan Thomas who is a very famous Welsh poets who was probably featured in that documentary BBC4 which bring back Donald Trump and cancel women's football congratulations and thank you to all our guests and we're all the heading of Clubhouse now to have the aftershave debrief two weeks time with do follow us on Apple podcasts on Spotify ever get your podcast that you never miss our briefings.

I can only man the Producers not hill and Peter price the media podcast audio and PPM production.

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