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Read this: Threats to journalists in Northern Ireland

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Threats to journalists in Northern Irela…

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts from BBC Northern Ireland threats to journalists attacks on cameraman, the key question many Newsroom tackling right now.

How do we cover? What's happening in Belfast there's been credited about the slow uptake from London day use rooms.

So what does the reporters on the ground you've been covering this for decades think how are they navigating A Volatile story and protecting their staff plus French Media giant Banerjee licences, many of your favourite TV programmes from MasterChef to Peaky Blinders we'll watch let me introduce you to today's guests know Doran is editor of the Irish news the daily newspapers are based in Belfast Suzanne Breen is political editor for the Belfast Telegraph Marianna spring is the BBC's disinformation reporter and Kathy pain is the chief executive of banijay rights and overseas.

Mammoth roster of programs from Black Mirror keeping up the Kardashians to MasterChef so Cathy what's the next big thing you're cooking up at the moment.

I'll put me right on the spot that question there.

I think there is a huge company 120 production companies across 22 huge catalog we have in in terms of cooking shows and what we're cooking up at the moment.

I think as you know we've got then and Masterchef finale tonight Daisy eat with reschedule.

I would say on a theme of cooking using MasterChef is a global phenomenon produced around the world.

It's about your real people real food and he is a fantastic reflection of Culture everywhere.

We look forward to that show tonight start with the scenes of violence.

playing out on the streets of Belfast and other towns in Northern Ireland almost 90 police officers have been injured as protesters mainly teenagers through petrol bombs and fireworks the riots began in loyalist areas of Belfast they've been broadlink to anger over controversial Republican funeral and the IRA seaboard in pose as part of the brexit deal, but this has proved to be a very difficult story for the media to cover which is what it weird and I'm going by two leading figures in Northern Irish journalism and editor of the Irish news your paper has historically had a Catholic nationalist readership is summarise it very much and the Catholic and nationalist tradition constitutional politics, but we do they were very proud of the fact that goes from the tradition as well, but certainly are available is nearly at the newspaper which is Which is within the Catholic and nationalist tradition here and Suzanne Breen Belfast

How do you categorise your readers reflect the Northern Ireland population traditionally play the paper has been seen as a constitutional unionists paper but it is read by all sections of the community and where there to reflect Northern Ireland Society as it is and I'm actually both actually picked up quite a few international readers as well in the last couple of weeks.

Xx work out what's going on.

It's been widespread feeling that london-based newsrooms have been late to this story is of course a judgement call to be to be taken whenever anything like this happens, when does a disturbance which initially in this case only involved with couple of dozen teenagers, when does that become a serious the story how long have you been covering the buildup to this and when did you think right this needs to be covered?

Well, we've been covering the buildup of this for weeks.

We thought it was very serious from the beginning we watched it spread from Derry in the northwest part of Northern Ireland spread further down near Belfast and then to Belfast I think the media were called out not paying attention to the violence at the start then right, then they did arrive, but when they arrived it was mainly starting to Taylor and there is a bizarre moments in the middle for less than a petrol bombs thrown in Northern Ireland disturbances on the street the police under attack tenshintai and the Daily Telegraph front page a story about Rory McIlroy accidentally hitting the golf ball and you know that was the part of Northern Ireland in the Northern Ireland person that they chose to focus on Northern Ireland very much apart from the British mainland.

Baby 500 miles between London and Belfast but really it seems psychologically a time like 5 million and a petrol bombs were being thrown at those disturbances in London Cardiff and Edinburgh they would not have been that job of a week.

I'm not kind of the history of the trouble is nothing new right now generally the British comedian attacks in England or the was British soldiers been killed in Northern Ireland as opposed to local Northern Ireland people or police.

No, do you do agree with that? It's nearly there is a there is a squeamishness in London based newsrooms about the sorts of incidents in Northern Ireland of myself when I was a report of a Newsround back in 2013.

I was sent to cover the flag writes the last time.

There was a major flare up of violence and it was the most intimidating story.

I've ever covered.

You know it's been a long time researching it but in terms of the identity politics.

Everything that you could say wrong that could upset up or worse you know offender large group of people do you think there's a problem with with london-based Museum simply not wanting to tackle these issues funnily enough the flags that she was probably easier to cover because of the symbolism and the notion that our flag was being taken down from Public buildings and there was going to Rose and other people can't focus on it and people could probably also focus on a dispute over parades because you had the roads in interphase been stopped and the the balance which is unusual because it's different factors involved in it and the Northern Ireland protocol.

Clearly anger over the Bobby Storey funeral and the decision not to prosecute individuals as a result of their and also this big sensor.

And at the allegation that people in for missing out on some sort of Peace but other jobs and testament housing was going elsewhere it difficult to explain exactly and then in Newtownabbey Carrickfergus came to the place for all started in 1990 between the Falls of the Shankill roads the cemetery was unmistakable people in the lower side starting to attack the police burn buses trying to get through the peace lines which are still with us to confront people on the on the Other Side lyrics sense to that and people were entitled to wonder how is how we suddenly got that.

What's the people themselves of outsiders hatred of their perceived and enemies and a chance to attack them came came along and things develop play some of those seems extremely violent you know petrol bombs being thrown at buses violent disturbance is always hard for Germans to cover and this weekend sees the anniversary of Labour MPs that she was working as a journalist and dairy when she was shot during a riot last week.

Kevin's got a caravan working for Belfast Telegraph was also assaulted covering the protests and he spoke to BBC Radio Ulster about what happened, so my way down to the vehicle behind me.

Where was Emile wearing a mask not really most likely but also the cover his face and he was already on top of me that point out of the ground and one of my

From across the road and then proceeded to kick back camera and the other car was damaged on the ground of time as I turned around a second meal and approached me as I stood up and just wants him he decided to step back by voice and as I turned around the other name was on top of me again standing in front of me at that point by everything's Adam including.

What are you doing stream? Distressing there another photographer also had his car trashed as well.

We don't see that was an attack but Suzanne Kevin is a colleague of yours.

Have you spoken to him? Is he ok very very created young man he's 26 years of age.

What was there from the Catholic Community the attack with by loyalist sectarian abuse is told to ask back to his own area but he was back on the job.

Really that is what you have to do you have to show these people that they're not going to beat you and they are not going to defeat you they security measures taken by photographer photographer actually close in a way that journalists reporters aren't the security measures that they are very we will see some TV cruise coming to the riot and they actually have a security personal minder with them somebody with war zone training and it'll be that person's job to look after their their what's the camera crew and they kept watching see for the journal of park their cars there with one that I don't know what is a Russian or a full PPE black jackets military grade helmet, what's most common? Would you advise against that Suzanne

And what they feel safe most local photographers just prefer to wear baseball cap with a hard shell or maybe at most skateboard.

You don't want to draw attention to themselves.

They want to stay lowkey.

They want to be understood and they want to be like that.

They can move around quickly but it's very much for balancing at find over the past week or maybe choosing not to work in their own the way that they would but to work in small groups to have a wee bit of cover experience was awful, but a lot of the talking that I would speak to you would say that hasn't been a major problem with the writer's it will only be if if they're too close and a people feel like their identity.

Is it going to be shown up a couple of them writers are legally wearing my nose problems are not arriving there have been some exchanges if what happened to Kevin was horrendous, but there hasn't been that much.

No, do you think there's been a rise in attacks or threats against sir journalist in Northern Ireland in recent years there has been different forms Suzanne and Kevin outline the particular experiences which photographers have had the day with the lads out of the blue almost continuous attempts to attack photography cameras that there's been a very sinister attempt to intimidate journalist from a number of different papers including our own because of their work threats being phoned the police and crime stoppers and through other intermediaries making suggestions of individual journalists could be shot examples of graffiti being painted on the wall Airport from from our paper and another outlets which is very difficult to cope with one of our colleagues Alison Morris now moved on to talk to work with Suzanne had to deal with.

Put on a wall.

She had to deal with threats being phoned through Crimestoppers against her at which are very destabilizing now she stopped to hurt asked and people are aware of the journalist have been targeted in the course of the Troubles as well, so it's something that we have to get very serious consideration to that we're on a regular contact with the police over with Paddy unusual directly with senior police officers about the security of our journalist and it's probably worth pointing out that has been a change in the police.

Are they take these matters much more seriously, I've had to take calls from the Chief Constable about our staff and safety of our generous which is very much appreciated.

So it's definitely booked up the agenda for the reasons.

Why does my agenda these tensions are in ever to be being stoked on social media quite early this week from David blevins Sky News is Northern Ireland correspond.

He said putting out the fire on the street will be difficult while someone somewhere.

Pouring petrol from a keyboard Marianna spring BBC disinformation Special let me bring you in here.

That's ok video was posted on Twitter last week appearing to show around a dozen or more young boys running and petrol bombs adult to seeing in the video clapping and golden the videos now been viewed more than half a million times at least but it's origins and the context around it are being pulled over by people we know about it.


This has been a blueprint for how this information spreads are online particularly when you see protests or rioting in the streets.

You need to WhatsApp what's been happening in Northern Ireland over the past few weeks.

We've also seen that happening in the US and in some parts of the UK as well with regards to different kinds of protest happening when this is happening on a very political background.

She inevitably see videos like the one you spoke about being misused misappropriated in order to fuel setting narratives sometimes.

It's confusion people are.

What's going on one side or the other have been behind a particular videos in this case the video appears to show as you say young people on the side, but it was shared or x people claiming fake that is an act that people on the other side and this is all part of an attempt to further my message to the man who first made it go really viral and he can send all the details about the video to me and I think it just proved to us all how important it is when scrolling through my social media feeds to try and get to the bottom of what's happening in a video.

We're seeing again old footage being shared and other kinds of images in a bid to point the finger elsewhere were too inflamed tensions and these videos I travel so far so far because they are very watchable and voucher matekane as well, but the general picture in Northern Ireland that does interesting study from the digital forensics research Lab which is also.

It's part of an American thinktank it.

Fake social media profiles also being used to stir up tensions in Northern Ireland in general walk-in tell us about that definitely and it's very interesting and concerning at the time see this happening again.

It's something that we see happen a lot when they're retentions or protests because people look to further inflamed nose and they have different reasons for wanting to do that and inauthentic accounts which were removed definitely have the hallmarks of an influence operation you then begin asking the question well, who would do this and why and we seen other messages circulate like WhatsApp which is very difficult to get to the bottom of you showing them similarly with Facebook profiles that can be very hard to figure out Who originally set up these inauthentic account and why they did that why they're looking to further violence or cause trouble and talk about for an influencer campaigns.

They speak to do just at to destabilize countries in this case this could be domestic.

It could be people look.

Stabilizer again for their own gain.

It's another thing to really watch out for on social media inauthentic accounts or influence operations are used to deliberately make the Liberty make people angry at that quote that you first mentioned is so poignant because what happens on social media very much bleeds into what's happening on the streets.

Have you seen much of this activity on social media? There is a lot of static on social media and can spread on social media in the journalist was more direct no hundreds of thousands of people can say it.

There's a colleague of my inner fantastic young female journalist on a sister paper of the Belfast she works for Sunday World call Patricia Dublin she's received multiple there for her work and loyalist paramilitaries her name is appeared on the wall alongside cross hardest actually.

Her baby son and the police have been good and dealing with some of the cases that no one has outlined but they weren't good at all and dealing with Christian they didn't take it seriously and off and she's actually had to have the kickoff on major Foster blighted to get the attention that it deserves.

Will it take a sharp turn down and think about the world of TV we've got Cathy Payne hear the BBC announced last month that BBC4 would in its words become the home of the most distinct content from across the BBC archive basically will no longer commission original content for the channel rice medias also closing its linear channel in the UK for years after it launched on Sky's what does this all mean for the viewers one of the biggest television biggest players in television heading up the arm of damage a that sells programs manager is the biggest international content producer and distributor with over 120 product.

Under its umbrella that means kathy's responsible for some of the most famous and love shows in the world including Big Brother Keeping Up with the Kardashians and Peaky Blinders Cathy to give us a picture of your lips.

Take you back if that's ok, so one of the first major deals that you did hopefully can still remember it back in 2001 use old Home and Away the most at the much-loved Australian soap opera although this man myself, but you said that to channel 5 for 40 million pounds.

They were reported ITV offer twice as much to keep the show can you take us into the auction room for that deal? What role and why did you accept the Channel 5 offer ends is the process he was a 9-month negotiation process and the values that have been stated there.

Channel 5 for 20 years so it's a long long period of time Home and Away been much loved and was on ITV and been on there so many years was up to up to a renewal date ITV made an offer to renew the show at the time that was a lot less than what the Show had been achieving a lot less commitment my job at a bedtime was to think what was the long-term benefit for this show the audience and B IP owner who is Channel we were able to take the show to market at that time Channel 5 or launching they needed they needed some shows I need to still someone and they came onboarding and made an offer that ITV at that time we're not prepared to to matching and that was the history was a risk.

Is always a risk of moving your varies from one network that one is paid off.

I think it's the end of the day.

You've got to look at the commitment of the network and at that time and it was really hard to move it from ITV was that for my commitment and have continued without commitment always about the money then there's a lot.

Do you have to weigh up when you do these deals just to give you a bit of a bio.

Just helped the audience as well as you went on to be the boss of Endemol perhaps best known for reality TV and game shows like Big Brother in 2015 Enduro merge with shine group the company run by Rupert Murdoch daughter Elizabeth with you as the head that deal had to be signed off of course by the European Commission because it was so big and potentially powerful in it.

Sorry that should say how do you respond to people who worry?

That's so much TV power rested in the hands of a company like yours Banerjee what you have to remember that we do operate 120 production company in 20 territories.

That's where we physically produce content and for a large part of the rest of the world where we don't have production entities.

We licence the right produce shows all licensed chosen already made with governed by broadcasting standards in each of those territories and whatever you say about content and consumer content and audience in any market tells you what they want to watch and there's culture culture taste associated to every territory that will never that will never change that is why many of these global streaming companies who will come under pressure to have quotas on them.

They already know to be 6.

On a global footprint I've got to be telling stories that a very relevant to local audiences in those local markets which should I think the audience dictates surely size does in your game as well and with that power do you ever do you have a strong arm a channel into perhaps taking a drama series that you're trying to push in it for something else.

So you might say to the BBC yes, you can have Mastermind for this match but you have to take this series as well.

It never find yourself make a note sort of deals in some charity done some programs.

We weak camera Rath The Division that I'm responsible distribution, so we're doing original Productions in on footprints.

We do co-productions to program sales.

Yes, sometimes is leverage that comes into into a negotiation.

That's no different to the way that you could say the

These are offering great Talent deals to suck up a lot of the talent to be available exclusively for them, but yes very few use leverage in the wrong way and never pays off then his my experience you have had lived experience and that I did say master minor thing and it's MasterChef isn't it so huge back catalogue of content that you've got the pandemic is obviously limits on match of the new film that can take place Studios about to close down or does that mean that channels have been rushing to buy your repeat has it been a bit of a bumper time for you to things you've got the rise of streaming platforms globally we all know the global big ones and hopefully the Amazon the Disney plus, but then what you have is all the domestic when I call domestic streaming platforms who are looking to develop probably.

What was a catch up service originally into a proper demand offering.

Britbox in the UK or iPlayer for the BBC where they actually require programming just for those services in addition to their linear services Italy with a pandemic.

They was the real delay was on the Script reproduction non-scripted was able to get up and running quite quickly except for some of the bigger format require international travel so suddenly they were slots available and it did have attention on library re-running Classics that has been that has been great to be able to do that but the real big growth his friend streaming services who are looking for a long-running franchise in our catalog we do have and I'm not talking then Tim Davie the head of the BBC has said that national broadcasters.

Can't and shouldn't try to compete with the deep pockets of Us streamers like Netflix prime and Disney do you agree with that?

I think that data from paid in a different way they compete by having a very focused on domestic shows that where they can give them attention and deliver something to the an audience.

That's very focused for that market streaming service may not wear a streaming service do want shows the work globally the BBC and it's no different to services or around the world Domestic Services and I wouldn't take them for granted they fighting back and they can offer a different type of program offering to the to the audience, so you still think about the BBC is it as a customer then you don't go straight to the the primes and the Netflix is out there.

Obviously I'm Australian person that the BBC is.

Such unique unique offering it's unbelievable.

There's nothing like in the world but BBC of course is it in very important client as his ITV Sky as his Channel 4 as in every other market in Australia the ABC channel 7 channel 9 those what would say linear broadcasters with with the coming platforms in their own right everyone is important to us and you own the rights of his branswell.

Don't know it's not just the programs themselves I spotted that you're launching a peaky blinders wine.

What are the spin-off of commercialization of of a programs? We do when we MasterChef we do number of couple we have various initiatives in different territories.

We have cookware that is is one area for MasterChef but you look it anything.

Excuse me excuse interrupting Cathy thank you very much for that.

We have another time.

Thank you to all of our guests this week after paying chief executive banijay rights Marianna spring BBC reporter and editor of the Irish news and Suzanne Breen political editor of The Belfast Telegraph amo with that next week.

Thank you for your time.


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