Read this: Ashley Byrne - Creative director/owner, Made in Manchester

The radiator day programme with broadcast bionics creators of The Bionic studio listening watching reacting to and learning from every spoken sweet and SMS for a mix unlock and understand your content the bionic studio transform everything about radio except the way you make it hello and welcome back to the radio today podcast with me your guest house for the week James Brown my guests this week is journalist broadcaster and creative director of The Independent production company in Manchester or am I am for short Ashley burner say hello hello James you ok? You know what I'm super good.

Thanks thrilled to be hosting this podcast and to be speaking to you and I'm really looking for discussing the week that we've all had as a nation and as an industry and so I thought I'd start by asking what it's been like for you as the owner of a production company in the wake of the sad news of the passing.

Duke of Edinburgh it's always difficult as you know as a small independent production company of growing all the time but you know we've always in our 16 years had to juggle lots of plaits and do lots of things and that's the nature of the business and it's the nature of the industry really because no secret really that budgets in radio and not like budgets and television so you've always got to keep your ear out for for work and you've always got to make sure that you're delivering properly and delivering a good product and you know stuff that is really good quality and turn the commissioners will keep coming back to you for and you know we've been doing it now for 16 years and I have to say yeah at the recently.

It's probably been one of those busy periods we've had for a long time.

I think a lot of that is to do with the fact that a lot of things are coursework cancelled or postponed during the coronavirus period and therefore broadcasters and others have decide.

Now is the time to bring things back on board again and because it all have all happens at once and you've got a you know you could meet the challenge kind of thing so yeah, it has been busy.

We've been very very quite a few things but the great thing about broadcasting and the great thing about what we do as a production company as opposed to working in an hour's department at the BBC or some other company is that we have such a variety of things to do so at the moment everything from producing documentaries that we've just done about Prince Philip to a big temper jazz is to an investigative joke docking Japan through to a history series about the history of the body human body with Alice Roberts and then of course just before that we had our new comedy series The Likely datepart.

So yeah, it's been a very very busy period are we still got quite a lot coming up which is great with the same time as doing all that made doing the work going to constantly keep thinking about ideas as

The ideas are currency.

We're only is good as the you know that the last thing we came up with really so it but it's always been like that.

You know the nature of independent production really and I wanted to ask you what it's been like managing people managing the company and as you say you know keeping those ideas coming in when at times.

It's all sort of been up against us really yeah, I mean it is hard is it you know it's very difficult just keeping all the plate spinning because as I said before the budgets are very pretty small that you're dealing with on a regular basis.

So you know you got to make sure that the team you have on-board you know our dedicated are happy and you've got to be aware that people will put in extra hours and extra time including myself and that they need to make sure that we need to make sure that they get some you know some some quality time as well and space because the end of day.

It's really important that people are happy and enjoy.

I think people people do when everybody tends to put in extra 110 120% when it comes to something will have to be turnaround fairly quickly, you know everybody realised you in the last week or so that we had some Prince Philip docks that we were planning to do and of course they had to be made fairly quickly.

It's great to see the team of people that made him and structure get on with that make sure it happened.

You know it was it was a task, but I was very proud about what we managed to achieve you know we did 2 documentaries about 3 actually for the world service and for five live they're both angled in different ways and react to you know drop everything and act very quickly to make to make them happen.

You was a challenge with that really was the weed plant these documentaries the day.

I met basically we do a series of documentary on again for Meltham and

Dammit Bobby Robson the day I met Princess Diana we've done them over the years for mainly for five live and the challenges keeping them keeping them fresh when in terms of the content because we plan them for other events generally and of course as soon as Prince Philip died everybody was at the story and all very stories are coming out about you know different things anecdote Smarties is is growing open his his early years of the Queen and it is involved with different Charity please and all those kind of things and the Duke of Edinburgh Award was mentioned everywhere so you're constantly thinking one how much have we got in his documentaries that fresh now which extra do we need so that was a constant challenge because you know your where everybody was at it straight away when part of the reason for that was because we're in over the period which is where you know a senior member of the royal family dies and broadcasters.

Have to react to that and therefore as well aware of being a radio person everyone dreads the Old bit like going off and having to act on that basically means that blanket coverage for a period of time so yeah, that was really quite difficult because we didn't know when our programs when we go out.

We didn't know whether the rockers want them straight away or they wanted them later on in the end, because they're quite reflective and involved ordinary people and someone people's wealth in different parts of the world.

Generally they decided to make them specials for the day of the funeral released at a week to get that one Morris a week to get them to get the made, but I've got reservations in a way about the coverage and whatever will go to go on that if you want, but yeah, it's very good great to be part of a big event in a way.

I mean very sad event but it's fantastic to the situation.

Whereby you know the world service and 5 live.

Baby's funeral made something about about documentary so proud of what the the team managed to turn around in such a short space of time and in the end that work ended up going out in a very prominent spot in the schedule.

Play me the world service went out at 4 directly after the funeral so that means we were you know maybe Manchester was making his mark all around the world very important.

I'm and if I got some great feedback and somebody said on Twitter go to BBC world because you know that that's really great proud other people's memories and it's moving already and far better than the drivel that broadcast at the moment on the US TV networks is mixed together archive and not really presenter on this instance.

We actually did a present for the BBC world service in Winifred Robinson generally.

It's just people's memories and people listening to it.

I don't think.

What you think about when it comes to making radio programmes, but I don't think the audience necessary no always how much work goes into that you know that the painstaking work in terms of trying to you know piece it all together will be situations where you interview somebody and you know because there's again because it's first person than having to do several takes and you thinking which takes you we use is an art and itself.

I mean you know you know this James it's some it's very pain staking and it can be quite a lonely business, can't it? Let's face it because you got to make a decision there and then there are occasions when you can get together as a team and do stuff, but generally if you're doing something very quick and trying to turn something around you know it's all down to you at the end of the day.

It was won the very first questions about the business and ask you when I first met you because I'd only just have grasped this of I didn't understand how you could take that much information how you can take a 45-minute interview.

I tried doing it by.

Trial and error at that point and taking a 45-minute interview and boiling that down to maybe two-and-a-half minutes of the good stuff editorially.

I just I didn't have the mind for it and it's years and years of working with people.

Who do it for me naturally too kind of fall into it until relatively recently.

I just thought I just thought you said microphone and contributors were just talk until their story but the the real art is a finding those people and then knowing what to ask them absolutely but also about you having to make a decision because I'm not use what you don't use because you've literally got a packet into 26 minutes or 50 minutes or whatever it may be that can be awful sometimes because you're listening to be with you.

That's a really good bit they said they're and and you know they might be able to know people do repeat themselves sometimes but actually sometimes they repeat themselves for a reason because they're trying to emphasize a point and

You get rid of that that enforce it doesn't have the same meaning use me so there's lots of decisions.

They have to make it and making sure that you you know you don't represent them you want to make sure they are their stories going out so yeah, it is but I think the worst thing is actually making that decision on what stays in what comes out you know something.

It's quite people say what you enjoy doing interview then that's an hour-long when you got to cut it down make sure everything is 15 minutes long but as you know people don't necessarily talking little segments and it takes a while to get warmed up and sometimes the best bit they say is right at the end often when it's exactly the same in music production.

It'll be typically the warm when you're just testing out the microphones at the Battle do the best take exactly so yeah, it's been a challenge, but that's what we do all the time.

I mean we have done and

And I've done plenty of the teams did plenty of live programming and I sometimes think to myself you know be great to do Farm much more of that because if you doing live stuff, that's it.

Is that you know it's over and done with them in 1/3 hours or whatever it is.

If there's a mistake be made mistakes.

We made your waist.

I think there's a tendency when you're free recording things to really put the effort in to make sure it sounds as good as possible close to what we do is built programming here Radio 4 Radio 2 when it comes there documentaries and things and also for the world service and another broadcasters.

I feel the I think it was great.

I think the broadcasters themselves did a great service in terms of turning things around and doing and treating the story in the way it should be you know he's the the the husband of head of state of the United Kingdom will also of 15 of the realms and across the Commonwealth so huge important figure and you know.

Problem with giving do provenance in a way to that, but I think the comes a point in broadcasting where this isn't just about Prince Philip this is all stories really coronavirus and that I think sometimes we should sit back a bit a step back a bit of broadcasters and producers and journalist someone ever and and when we're coming to making schedules and working out.

What goes into things are just going to sing on the look at the issue of are we doing the story and ourselves Justice by making something blanket for a while due to me and I feel sometimes that we should paste things a bit more and then we should think about doing specials that really stand out and maintenance of Prince Philip when did die down for a bit and then there's more stuff around his funeral, but I think it would have been better to have you know this is actually sometimes when storybreak initially there's very little to say anyway.

Before anything actually becomes important important say anything the audience would would like that more.

I think of when I think back to the old days when I was growing up as a boy you know we everybody will watch News at Ten or news at 5:45 or the news at 1 because they were special moments and ok.

You know you didn't have 24/7.

You chat news channels and things like that, but something that I think you got from it.

I think people more attentive in terms of taking onboard weighers now.

I think there's so much stuff that sometimes actually the main message gets missed in away and you don't actually you know people end up switching off very quickly and I think that's the same with coronavirus in the sense that actually it's a really important story have been periods of the last year whereby the media.

I think it's gone overboard with it and actually what it's meant is that it's sort of.

Make people not take it that seriously anymore and of course that has an effect is serious effect on how people react to it in the street when it comes to social distancing already master whatever it maybe you know what I mean, so I don't know why we don't think about this.

I think we could I think we it would benefit us all to the things ourselves well.

You know does does a News Bulletin or something warrant complete 100-percent blanket coverage and they say it happens when everything you know it should have and then suddenly you hear about something for ages and ages.

Are you think you say what happened to such as why is that suddenly not in the mirrors or whatever anymore here to me.

So that's my feeling.

I don't know what I don't know what you think but you know there must be things that why you switched off at certain times at the story because you just can't just enough of hearing about someone I used to be a sponge for information.

I feel like a to take everything to heart and I remember everything in excruciating detail but having worked in a

Having worked on speech-based radio stations where they'll talk about one particular topic for a very long time.

I think I soon found that I had a very define threshold is to how much I could take on and keep and even today when I'm editing you know hundreds of interviews 3proxy.

I should be an expert now on jazz.

I should be an expert on the Duke of Edinburgh on certain of Japanese culture because the programs have worked on but I'm not because at the end of the day.

You've got a preserve your own mind you've got to do the work the best ability get it done and then move on to the one I mean, just saying on the theme for just a little while longer you've experienced a few of these in your time Avenue yeah, I remember being in Sainsbury's do my shopping when the Queen Mother died that she dragged into to sort that out.

I remember Diana yeah, I was on there and I was freelancing at that time.

In one place one week when she died then the next week.

When is a funeral I was on here doing the the live link up to the queen the Queen doing her little speech Kenneth Palace in the wake of a death can result tremendously exciting in a way covering any national or international event is it is big you know just not got the wrong with somebody was always interesting news and current affairs and things as a kid and then you know got my dream job working in journalism.

It was it was tremendously played really could be able to do to cover those things but as I got older I just realised that and I think because there's more media than ever before I just realised the constant obsession with certain stories at certain times.

I don't think is healthy really for Society in I just think it's just about balance.

About balance news and information are construct so it is down to an editor where it may be to decide actually today.

We're going to have we're going to cover this story that store in whatever but there are other things out there that you want the news bulletins and things don't have to be full of complete doom and gloom all the time and they can be there are positives out.

There are things going on you know to me.

It's sort of its you know and relative mine always says oh, you know that you know that this country is going to this go, but that again is is somebody's interpretation of it.

Yes, there's bad things going on with things going on as well and you know I just think we need to be a bit more realistic about how we communicate and how I think about what means two people at the other side units for a lot of people radio and television and

Is there lives literally because they know they might be on their own or whatever they haven't got anywhere else? It's sort of that they live their lives through the through the media so I think it's something we need to think about you know going forward I say this lot I said it's a lot for quite a long time to different people in the industry and sadly I tend to be a bit of a low voice, but I just think it and I've never I've not got official mental health issues in my life, but my pet's right my family have and my partner doesn't it? I do notice the impact that certain types things have on people I've noticed your Barry unflappable when I woke up on the morning of April 9th.

I woke up to a text message actually from a friend who simply said for fridge was down and immediately.

Men and then hit me I rolled out of bed and ran across the room to wear a keeper an old FM radio with an actual twisty knob for sleeping for the frequencies so want to experience that moment and to see what it was like when all the networks joined up and then I caught the tail end of the national anthem, but my immediate thought after processing the new South was so dear.

What what what must we do now everything's going to change with your way canopy recorded programmes for the working on live got a bit if you work scheduling and I got myself into a bit of a 8 is even though the media owners was not on me at all you on the other hand had to completely restructure your workforce and project lions and all the rest of it in order to turn things around really quickly, but it didn't seem to phase you all that much.

What are your strategies for just keeping a cool head?

The flapping into in a way that is part of the adrenaline isn't it? You know it's me that is part of it.

I don't really think about it actually in the moment when it's when it's something massive and you've just got to get on with you.

You just have to get on with it, but you realise at the end of it, how exhausted you are once it's over and done with you realise that these things do take it out of units mean and I don't know it's all about trying to again.

It's all about balance.

Isn't it a little balancing your life, but sometimes sadly in broadcasting broadcasting calls for immediate action you going to get on with it and do it.

I think I was always talk that you have to sometimes.

Yeah, go above and beyond in order to achieve things and that's always been the way I think all the way down the line and I mean you know when I was in newspapers late teens or early twenties often.

I'd have to go and report on something at a stupid hour of the day.

I'll be called out something because I'm in some horrible thing happened.

You know and I had to go and talk to people they've been some big murder or something.

Whatever you you just get used to having to go your comfort zone.

I suppose in that sense and I think we broadcasting terms.

Yeah, I mean it's fantastic to me and those situations part of a moment.

I think you know I think I think it's brilliant, but yeah, I mean I've seen you in Action doing think I think you can cope with it.

I think you rise to the you know the moment maybe underneath.

You know you're like a little duck with the the things flapping old touches on so many aspects of the radio mindset some of us production some of us work behind the mic some of us do both and it completely depends where your comfort zone is a what can you belong and therefore are the best equipped to deal with I mean when I used to work in overnight.

Play out on some of our daily beloved national commercial stations of the moment but the playout system would go up in smoke and the backup CD was nowhere to be found and have to present my way out of this.

But these days I mean I've grown up a lot of all gone back into my shell and getting back into studio producing.

I'm terrified of having to do something like that, but then in production situations you have to keep a cool head everyday is your job when all things are going wrong about you so just fancy.

What does it mean? It's not easy to ad-lib sometimes it let's face it it's quite you know you got to be in the mood for me.

Do it and I'm presenting various shows on radio over the years and being is presenting an early breakfast show on station and it was like the time in morning problem.

Very few people were listening anyway, and I didn't have a producer with me or anything like that.

I just literally go in and it wasn't one of those things where you could just do this is that was you had element of talking and yeah, it could be quite it can be quite hard because you end up you start you start talking and it going down a rabbit Warren

Recently, I'm guessing you've interview two most prominent names from the world of jazz spanning the last six or seven decades going really in-depth in order to get the best material out of them in autumn 10-part series 4 Jazz FM but sometime you also struggling that with speaking to contributors from all over the world for BBC World Service on 5 Live programme about the day that they met Prince Philip combining outdoor the Masters to do for the think I'll start a podcast and throughout all of that you never seen lost for words.

It is that something that you've learnt over the years or we just born that way.

I think it's time really I mean a lot of situations.

Whereby sadly I know because of what I do and they do lots of it.

I can't necessary know everything that every single thing and therefore to be the situation with by you are able to help the person that you're into being warm to you and open up to you.

I really have spoken about listening to that person more than anything because you can all go.

20-in TV with a number of questions and things you must get out of them and the rest of it but actually I find that sometimes.

It's better to go with the flow with a person and taken and see how they might say something that's quite surprising if you want little bit more about that kind of thing and I think it's obvious obvious things you want to know about something but I think it's quite nice too and occasionally we do we do this a lot now on our podcast distinct nostalgia, which may be managed to set up just over a year ago and it's mainly focused on actors right isn't people from mainly old TV programmes but also films as well some of the Great British films and you know that's tremendous fun because we can go into loads of different areas and I try and treat it more more of a chat then interview really that's quite important to do that and you know we get great feedback from that's a great wonderful thing to do so yeah.

It's about it's about a rapport with the person or anything rather than going in with all guns blazing wanting to do a Jeremy Paxman kind of interview and you know which actually I don't think works anyway to be leaving in hard-headed political interviews off to they don't get the best out of somebody anyway, but I am much more of the school of David Frost I used to do his programme Sunday morning breakfast with frost or it won't order it wasn't get a big leader on from a different country Boutros Boutros-Ghali or whatever and he come on as a Boutros Boutros out the devil.

Are you this and have a chat about something completely different before they got onto the topic of in hand unit me an actually.

He got far more out of them revealed far more than if you gone into the been really antagon.

I think that is a really important part of of interviewing people is just making them feel comfortable not to catch that out really.

Make them open open up to you and that's a Great Britain today.

That's also the radio.

Is it it's an intimate medium and you know I think people are more likely to open up through but they are through visuals sometimes and I think that's one of the big benefits the radio has over telly that just because it's complicated.

Do you think you know you haven't got lights you haven't got cameras.

You haven't got makeup running around or is it just because it's just naturally more intimate actually more intimate and still in a way even though obviously radio listening is huge and very well in this country particular and nosey podcast doing quite well as well.

I think it's because it's still in a way slightly under the radar.

You know I don't mean that in a negative way.

I just think people if something appears on TV or you know he tends to be hyped up in some particular way was radio just gets on with it and

Is there but you not sort of yeah? I just worry about what they want.

They were now the local what the hairs like or whatever and I think that helps as well.

You know even though at the moment of course.

What's heading to happen sadly is that because of coronavirus because everyone's using zoom the loads of people who now you end up doing interview with them and even though it's radio and audio.

They Know It's radio on audio the end up coming on you know with the all the Gladrags on and they're the best haircuts always do the makeup on that because the they feel as though they have to because it's visual looking at somebody often through zoom or whatever even they might be recording it in her in a did I tell you something interesting and I can't say it is but I did an interview with quite a poor person during the last 6-months and I suppose there's plenty of people doing this.

You don't see it this person was all very smart and already written then kind of person you expect to be smart and the doorbell went and they got up and then just literally got a box of this person was a very very senior figure are used example.

Oh my God but I'm sure there's plenty of that going to people who just dress the top half is imagination.

I might have seen worse actually but we won't go there.

I mean sticking on the subject of seeing things in radio and I don't feel the to qualify to even brushed up on the subject, but how do you feel about visualisation in radio at the moment? I have to say something that I've not I've not really warm to it.

Doesn't really radio audio about painting pictures in the mind at the end of the day.

So when I was a kid you know people parents will always listen to Terry Wogan in the morning and then it's so good morning to lunch time kind of thing it would be Jimmy Young

Obviously one of the forerunners to Jeremy Vine is that kind of show with you know consumerism and and and latest interviews with people and comments and over today and always a popular and Jimmy Young was an extremely popular and he'd been a pop singer at one point back in the 50s and then he's going to but for me it was a radio presenter and I always imagined them in a particular way.

I always thought it was this Toby sort of guy quite warm quite friendly and always to it and then when I eventually saw him because he ended up doing a program on Yorkshire Tea that you presented with guess someone ever and he was really thin and tall and what have any completely destroyed my nose my impression of in the way I listen to my did listen to All the radius is I know it's stupid, but it did you sometimes actually it's great to have been a situation.

Whereby you use your imagination and he left so now of course because

So many presenters on radio are former or existing TV presenter.

So you know exactly what they look like but certainly in the back in the day was very much about the voice.

I mean I remember I never thought Ken Bruce look the way he does not saying I'm not saying that you know that's good or bad thing a nice guy so I think Steve Wright 2 Steve Wright because the right always been a radio presenter.

I always had in mind exactly what you look like because you know it turned out to be something different so I think I regret the visualizer something really it away because I think audio on TV and audio visual is different.

It's a different medium.

I think yeah you have to want to be seen don't you and not everybody does yeah absolutely that definitely people have to say that you know people have got faces radiator got faces radio and TV but yeah absolutely it's obviously the way things.

I think there is certain people who like to see it and want to have a look at it, but actually largely.

I don't know what you think but large.

They think most people who are listening to the radio at any point.

I really bothered about listening to the radio.

I don't think they're actually that bothered about the visualisation really I don't know to summarise this particular area.

I I do think that you have certain stations.

Do it incredibly well the red thing.

It's so much engagement over Instagram and I love all that stuff and Radio 2 as well that especially is Finding whole new audiences through the online space the cheese and techniques and technology that global employees across most of its brands are just jaw-dropping spellbinding but then again.

I'm not an expert on thinks.

I shouldn't be talking about it.

I just love radio station in the studio and all of the kit.

Yes, I think I think you might be a minority in that case.

I know what you mean.

I know there's a novelty of looking at it I suppose and thank you.

What's going on, but it must be a bit of a nightmare to people who we don't do it must be one of the big networks.

Have you constantly thinking? Oh my god somebody's looking at me here all the time.

It's sort of would you really have to go into work thinking about what you look like as well as being able to be broadcast properly, but you don't you tell me cos you worked on some of the Big Show's of things and you know the presenters as worried about what they look like or or not most of them.

Just seem to have perfect Hair days every day for some reason so to wrap up then Ashley you know going forward futures looking bright for am I am? What have you got the pipeline this last weekend? We had 6 programmes on five different networks we had the Prince Philip programmes on world service and five live wearedore definitive history of jazz series on Jazz FM which is 10 parts.

We had a repeat of our.

Bodies documentary series on history of the body with Alice Roberts pressure Alice Roberts on Radio 4 and we had an interview that I did with John Harrington who was the comedy writer a second thoughts which was on boom radio and course we had start of our three-part series rock and roll Classics Ricky Wilson Ricky Wilson rock Classics on Radio 2 so really collect the programs there which is fantastic and really proud that we are managing to dominate the the output this last weekend on radio stick and I'm sure we got more opportunities like that coming up and certainly some exciting programs within a Bob Marley programme coming up to marquees 40th anniversary of when he died in 1981.

We've got some great things come to Radio 4 including the return of our poetry series Tom and took that dialect poets so we got we got plenty of things happening were hoping to get a second series of our

Dad's comedy hopefully fingers crossed also doing bits in the in the podcast Arena as well, which is challenging lot of people talk about podcasting as being this great bright journal rest of it actually you know a lot of the time.

It's job tomorrow.

It's very hard.

I think it will blossom financially for people over time it is doing for some people but I do think it's a much more difficult market than people have realised really I think there's a difference between America and here in the sense that here we've got the BBC that you know you got programming you get for free so in America it's different because they don't have that and therefore people are prepared to pay donations through patreon and always Coming to keep things going where is over here if you're doing something completely independent podcast sometime.

I think it's actually quite difficult to make it work other being a hobby and I think we need to think about that.

Because there's some great ideas great things going on in the podcast market and podcast Arena I think we need to try and find a way of Supporting it.

There is took the BBC my sort of trying to support podcast is on the outside as well as those on the inside of the BBC so you know what's this space.

I've loved that to happen if they can be encouraged to do it because that is a good would be a good role for the lots of things going on lots of ideas hoping to branch out and some more telly with done TV before hoping that my TV but yeah that's exciting and yeah, we've been going 16 years which is quite an achievement.

I think in terms of radio production because everybody's wearing radio.

It's you're not you're not guaranteed income scarifying and we have turn another corner recently actually customer programs with our brands that were are now getting interest from BBC worldwide.

So they may end up going in.

So, it's all good progress and where you know we're certainly bigger than we were the 10 years ago.

We have grown in that time.

I just like to be the situation.

I think overtime whereby we can make a few more things happen in terms of people's ideas.

Cos the biggest frustration I get as a creative director of an independent production company and around we have is that we cannot make these ideas people come to us with happen a lot of the time you know so many ideas just never get through the the processes of casters whatever that some kind sometimes quite designing and yeah, there's something that taken literally 10 years to get off the ground.

Do you know it's like and people you know people obviously they want their ideas to work that can Excel hope overtime one thing I'd like to see changing the market is just more variety more opportunities more chance.

Things to be made to happen rather than situations, whereby is the same people over over again or it's the same ideas kind of thing I think you know where about ideas.

I see people flourish through their ideas.

It's quite a few people who come on board over the years have done that and see their ideas do really well, and I'd like to see more of that particular with actors in people people in that in that's fair who obviously that have struggled in the last year with all the stuff to do with the theatres been at Beam not working up to working and like I think there's a lot of scope for in a one area.

I'd love to do more on his comedy with a massive death in comedy in this country in terms of in a good observational comedy and I think he needs more support drama as well.

I think we've got two point whereby again certain kinds of drama tend to be overkill you know crime dramas and hospital drama.

It's all the same thing over and over again without there's something ideas out there that needs to be explored and I think we've got two as an industry as a whole not just not just radio but TV as well.

I'm film we need to find a way of making sure we don't get drowned out by American America and the streaming services because if we're not careful we let them and modernize everything then our industry could suffer and I think it's really quite important that we should have battle against that and make sure that british-made program is up there and let's face it still does exceptionally well or aswell so many of our brands pick up telly end up in different countries and have done fantastic things and I think we just need to Cherish that a bit more.

I think is an industry because it's easy as we just saying now in the footballing world these very easy for big conglomerate and big organisations and whatever to take over and and then and then you've destroyed you variety and choice.

A good know we've got a nursery have we got in our whole artsekta really considering what they've been through exactly and also radio as well.

You know you're from Leeds to actually be doing what you doing.

There's lots of people like that would love to be doing what you're doing and we need to keep the options open for people to be in that situation you know because let's face it the industry has contracted recent years there are less and less opportunities for people to get into radio to do what you're doing now that you know the meaning we need to keep that open so the new generations are able to come in and and and and realise the craft and enjoy your dinner and you been doing this out for a few years.

I think you through if you would still be starting out now in the sector that we got at the moment cuz it's contracted quite a lot you might actually be struggling to get into it.

I think people are probably trying starting out now to get into radio probably find it quite difficult and even if you've got a so-called foothold that could be taken away from you in any moment.

Freelance I struggle for about 5-years to to get in and even now who knows where would be in a year's time.

I still say you know everybody almost everyone has at least a community Radio station within a bus Rider a cycle ride from where they live and if you love ready that much then you will find a way just keep plugging keep plugging away the number one factory think that's still separates those getting inverted commas to those that down other ones that just keep plugging away.

Just keep assistant doesn't matter if it takes you 10 years you know if you love it that much you won't mind and you'll find a way of doing radio regardless of whether you've been given.

The opportunities are not like like we are doing now.

I wasn't asked to get presenters episode I asked if I can guess present and episodes is that another that gumption that gives these little Gems to play with?

Because you know when I was starting out in trying to get to broadcasting.

He was very easy to actually go to a commercial radio station and say to look can I come in and watch what you doing? Can I come in make the tea, you can come in and just tell Pat and another period of time that commercial commercial radio.

They take your more because they see you got the benefit of having you there EK22 interested in it and whatever so but now cos you got another layer you got community radio and then you got another two got podcast as well.

So people do Know Podcast not earning what you are trying to do it may be struggling to get her whatever community radio so I'm getting you two commercial radio is more difficult now because it's become as we know most stations now sort of all merged together and all rest of it the less opportunities really to to do it and I think that's that's quite that's quite.

Exaggerate a lot of people being put off by all that very very quickly you know and then and we need we need new people to come through.

No just people have you not just people of people older people who might be the radio who got something to give as well because I often feel as though actually a lot of our stations could benefit from people who had you know another life the experience of life actually in a way.

Yeah, it's easy to get swallowed up.

Isn't it by work and I guess it's just important to remember to to step away once in awhile and live a little bit so that you've you've got something to bring to the table broadcasting about about lives and experiences so for life and experienced.

So yeah, that's a lesson to me really not to not to work so hard so so yeah well actually it's been fascinating as always to talk.

Lovely talking James and hope you all the best for the future.

Thank you James and thank you Ashley for this week's edition of the podcast fantastic interview great insights now before we close for a while.

It's a bit of information about cleanfeed because clean bit is designed for radio and podcast as well you doing I'll be interview or co-hosting simple to connect to live audio over the web because he's great and you can record as well.

It doesn't cost anything to get started.

Thank you very much God of the radio Today programme we're going to take a break for a while, but hopefully will be back at some point in the future.

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