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Read this: #157 - ARIAs 2021; Amazon Buys Bond; Discovery And WarnerMedia Merge

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#157 - ARIAs 2021; Amazon Buys Bond; Dis…

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Hello and welcome to the media podcast.

I'm only man on the show this week.

It's a merger and acquisition specialist Amazon buys, MGM and Discovery merges with Warner Media what does it all mean for the Battle of a streaming Giants programme The Fallout continues from the Diana Panorama scandal is Fleet Street and the government push for more power over the broadcaster all that plus friends at the recent audio wards in the US TV upfront Honda Facebook's latest news deals and in the media quiz we go the full Lynda Bellingham in this edition of the media podcast turn back on the show today with a fresh trifle of delicious hot takes editor of newsweek international Alex Hudson hello Alex how are you yet?

Your office and actually met the people who report to you.

I have been in my office once to pick up an office chair, but I only met the the head of HR it was a lovely lovely person who was great but now I have to me any of my colleagues now 14 months then in person opportunity to an office chair at home.

You had to go and steal the one from the building without paying for it.

It's getting a cab.

Sent to me with a with a post-apocalyptic where we might be heading but happily we are not there yet.

Are you going to continue to be spending a proportion of your work from home? Do you think when things potentially go back to normal? I think looking good news week.

It was already the case beforehand.

So I think that will continue and also I am so bored of these four walls.

I'm with my partner in a one-bedroom flat so we have two rooms to go in so she is not related to the bedroom and as I get this phone to record this podcast so you know more rooms any rooms any offers.

Wonderful and we are really looking forward to getting back to me some some semblance of an office I can see from the webcam.

You do have some lovely plants, so that some small consolation today is Chief content officer of content company something else Mr Steve Ackerman hello Steve hello Ollie as we record it was the Arias last night the Radio Academy Awards were you in the Will you down in a bottle of vodka in your pyjamas out so that was what was it that was best specialist show with jamz Supernova what did you think of this question about 100 times over the last year, but these Awards are becoming less remote and more hybrid now aren't they so, it's a legitimate evolution of the question.

What did you think of the awards ceremony now, but it was going half in person half on the computer.

I'm very sympathetic to I'm genuinely sympathetic to the fact that it's a real challenge.

I think to try and do something that can feel like a bit of the water.

Obviously works remotely and in a sense.

I think they base of the best.

They possibly could you know an Auditorium the presenters and Anna sense about it? It's probably not that much longer that we're going to still have these sort of hybrid Moments you know hopefully by this time next year we'll be back at Paul's again.

No, I'm sure showing a remote version as well for people to watch we're going to be good.

I'm not sure I can get that emotional bad either way to be honest.

I mean you know magic so nice station, but nice is probably the right words that I guess because I thought that all the winners of the

We're going to be because of the coronavirus being such a huge story, but it shows that I suppose for a lot of people this way the flipside of horrendous news story unfolding around you as well.

Completely I mean come on.

We've all had that experience where and when you think back over the past 15 months.

We just feel I cannot watch any more news because it's just dragging me down and you think about what is the complete opposite it's it's Phil Good middle of the road music that is not offensive and just does you know they do exactly what they say.

They're going to be there, but I don't want to hear dancing ceiling by Lionel Richie dollars, Amazon gets access to the James Bond catalogue which Netflix Netflix wanted to buy just the upcoming movie for a billion dollars just by itself, so there's obviously competition there.

And this news comes after we landed Discovery are to merge with AT&T to create another new streaming giant which will take on Netflix Disney plus and Amazon Prime so don't worry travel actually so in away as I mean should be asking why Amazon was willing to pay so much, but they were in trouble and obviously they have been advertised.

They were up for sale, but obviously they do have a very valuable inventory.

I mean you only have to look at ITV2 schedule to know what we know.

What are they going to do with James Bond get stripped away from them.

You know it's probably has to be I guess along with what else Star Wars and Harry Potter when the most valuable film franchises in the world and it keeps on giving obviously so so in that sense.

There is a genuine value there and and and you can see for Amazon how it makes sense.

It's not just think how many times can I watch James Bond but actually I suppose owning the IP is different, isn't it? Because you can make new versions of it.

That's what Amazon have proven with the Lord of the Rings coming up.

Rocky RoboCop Wizard of Oz you can make TV spin-off of all those things I think that's just how many times people watch James Bond and I'm friends with the friends exclusive without the without a day that show a lot like the office is still watch time and time and time and time and time again by people and James Bond audiences are just watch this one.

I think it's because you are listening to the licensing in that back catalogue particularly for its audience which are incredibly likely to subscribe to a digital service if James Bond is on there was one part of it and I agree with you VIP is amazing about what you can do with James Bond although you know are you going to make it a beautiful wonderful new in a bit of saying or are you going to have 7270 first? I was filmed.

30 seconds as is happening at the moment, so it's it's how do Amazon find out balance.

How do you still make a James Bond release an event even been delayed what 12-months and how do you keep the new James Bond is picked even more screen.

You'll be on Amazon what they do next but that back catalogue is worth the money on the other hand Steve if you went to talented creators and said we've got 8 billion dollars to play with we were thinking about buying MGM but would like to do instead is come up with 50 great new brand we could exploit for the next 100 years could mate but anyway without owning RoboCop you've got something if I hear and you know when you look at things like the Marvel universal.

How is expanded the starwars universe you could easily see how potentially with that James Bond universe or some of those other franchises as well you can expand those out quite easily you got backstories to tell on daddy's you've got.

Characters of pop-up you know movie after movie who you can spin off in different ways, it's the fact that you're buying something that's fully established and it just gets back to the same thing.

I mean especially with Amazon who are such a dated and smart smart people they're not going to the numbers and they filled it absolutely justifies the price Netflix look a bit weak.

Obviously the point isn't that compete with the big beast Alex and Netflix doesn't have IP with that kind of 100-year heritage does it was actually Disney Dance because you only do they have Star Wars and fox now have Warner NH VI which will talk about in a minute Netflix owned and that's how Netflix pivoted what 10 years ago.

Maybe with House of Cards was that 10 years ago.

That is true, but so Netflix bought all of the rights to all of those films all of the BBC back catalogue really early on and the audience but now they have 200 million subscribers going on.

It's what can Netflix be definitely what Netflix is always a new upstart Ms and search brand is in creating continuing brackets new is new formats if the game shows in reality shows and is in Netflix on you in a way where you were saying like Woodward Netflix .5 billion dollars on an existing for my new format.

I think she's finding that in breaking through in those brilliant new things and then they look at the Oscars or elsewhere is how Netflix makes it seems like an authority on new content just buying in authority from other companies that other deal the 43 billion dollar deal to merge Warner media with Discovery Steve I mean to me reading between the lines this sort of seems largely to be AT&T acknowledging.

They don't quite know what to do with the TV and movie studio, they have Warner HBO they kind of bored it up and pissed.

All the films are going to come out online at the same time as the cinemas and they just said like we've got established player here.

We've got David's as love who runs Discovery he can run the Movie Studios if we team up with it seems to be what's behind it largely well-known.

I think I think there's another layer which is come on the week doesn't go by on This podcast when you are talking about the streaming Wars battle and how many subscriptions can anyone person pay for and you know we think it's going to be 4 or 5 or is it going to be 6 and that's really what's at the root of this? I mean with this onto big player in 15 million subscriber since January not bad you look at Netflix's 208 millions.

Is it worth getting your Rover Discovery really they're not to be played when you when you turn the two companies to get a catalogue then.

Obviously you know you have a very different different picture.

I'm sure we're going to carry on seeing more of this because ultimately you can see that there's a controller.

Going on in clever people than me.

I think that I keep reading is is the average expect the average of about 4 services? I think that's about right.

Isn't it? So wait, so we're not we're not necessarily at saturation point yet? You know what sort of getting there and is obviously big competition you got also peacock by the services that haven't actually launched in the UK yet.

There's also battling in this space.

So really these are the sort of early you know done shots being fired battle.

It's going to take place over the next couple of years probably Alexa to talk about this picture is premium content had to get Sky basically and spend £67 a month then there was this whole period of cord cutting and now we're going to snow anymore.

See everything in Disguise a good example like so all of the TV companies all of these big corporations 11 Monopoly back.

So if you look at like sky just owns if you're paying for a service 90s you're paying for Sky if you're looking so let me USB cable network same thing and Netflix for a long time was the only company that you gave money to online to watch TV or movies or whatever so people are making what was the 18 and 708 billion then making 108 billion dollars bets on the fact that they can you get them and even though the market is so much more now and everything and Disney's and there are so many operating a bit can't believe in offaly, but they're still looking for that and I still don't think they will be that point when people start to cut down again, because there will be that one brand that they tie themselves to dial to brands of their time selves.

don't have enough time to watch all the TV if they're watching YouTube checking social media for actually having a life when real life is allowed again and so it's it how that people died for that one or two subscriptions rather than the three or four sometimes running a business can feel like swimming upstream and Siberia

So you can keep them running smoothly soon.

It will be more like you going down a waterslide 60.

Will the next entertainment like friends the reunion the one where are favourites get back together so perfectly car just search now membership membership required.

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Let's do Diana Gate BBC has been doing his usual self flagellation this week following the Dyson report into Martin Bashir interview with Princess Diana have a government of responded to as well of course home secretary Priti Patel said the licence fee midpoint review changes to the broadcaster from on high Oliver dowden laid into the BBC's quote group think there was a little more cautious in his criticism of the way that you dealt with this week.

I'm in the current director general Tim Davey in particular.

How do you think they handle the Fallout from this? I think Tim Davie and they're pretty well.

I think he was he seemed to me to be pretty on the front in a very difficult situation after 4-days of not saying anything.

Say something you know because obviously this is not his making it's not like some of them recent the BBC website on his what she's not even not as DJ you know it's something from a long long time ago however and the obviously is it is a disaster story to the movie because it just gets to the principles of ethics and and journalism and and and the BBC such as you know it's built on on that element of trust the other thing I'd say about it is the holy predictable I mean you you you don't need to be any sort of Media expert with this government to know that if there's a chance really to grab the BBC by the neck.

They will do it in their chance unfortunately the BBC game that opportunity and you know to start saying something happened 25 years ago means.

They need to be complete upheaval now and clearly that's

What organisation could you look at in any sphere of business or anything else? That is run now the same way it was 25 years ago hasn't changed over 23 difficult so you know Oliver dowden pretty for sale.

It was one of 10 out of 10 for predictable response there.

Is this inconvenience rehire Martin Bashir in 2016 for a job that I don't think existed before Did It religious editor.

I don't know replace him since he resigned and you know that was a decision that Tony Hall was part of James Harding was part of so it's not as simple to say what happened 25 years ago a curious person might have been aware that there was an issue around this year, then.

That's a steal about the whole like it's 25 years ago things have changed but how he got retired which critics are saying there wasn't the so.

Sources in reporting and said that the heat just got home without an interview there wasn't a rigorous process the BBC says that there was a rigorous process and it has followed its to recent for that to Be Forgotten history inside the BBC said that it's going to reduce editorial practices and investigates, but what that actually means in practice is just due diligence if you're hiring people your job is a look for every social media ever been made and show that you have absolute confidence in the people.

You're hiring is I didn't know until this all came out that this year was launched by staying in to be like he will beat reporter beforehand.

This was his moment this is this is and so the idea that he is this naive person didn't understand the rules is plausible the idea that he hasn't gained so much from that interview and then why I think the question is what did the BBC One from getting him back in and that's that's that's the question that the the

What do they have does Billy want to keep his mouth? Shut? What what is the reader in back? Is it because he has the best weather just had it so that the BBC that point or is it something else going? Yeah? I should be the point about what he got out of it.

Originally is a sad.

I am old enough to remember the original into remember watching it and maybe what what has she hasn't been reported on now because it's a story but he then landed a massive into with Michael Jackson on the back of it which was also you know Michael Jackson circles.

You know this is big news on the internet at the time that was massive because he was he was the absolute global superstar and never gave interview really was the super fans are saying we need a review on the Jackson as well with the same there.

Isn't it? Which is whatever the methods not that the the means justify the ends, but whatever the methods they both uncovered and essential tree Michael Jackson was preying on children Princess Diana was available in the marriage and 3 people in it.

Yeah, but at the end of the day journalism has to be built on ethics doesn't it and especially coming out of the only thing I wasn't aware of until the story really came out what your losing to Alex was that he then went on here.

Obviously works for number of Us broadcasters, but there were a number of dubious reasons why some of those jobs came to an end as well.

I don't know the details on those I just know there's a suggestion of something you know something happened in some of those jobs, which you know clearly again.

I think place to Alex's point about about the rehiring and kind of it was enough due diligence down there the time in Channel 4 dispatches and others over the years so pretty Prince Harry's that such practices are still wide by today and he said that it's bigger than that one that work.

I want publication if I think you.

Prince Harry and Meghan have seen all manner of its profession the to the precise reason that we have to be out to a higher account every time something does go wrong.

It makes national newsletter and Johnson the back of it and it becomes a national talking point and so as we all know if one thing appears nemesia on it and it gets traction and other headlines of here and people think that's why is relieving that's happened to me or 4 times and the existence of humanity and Jasmine is more transparent and more FA Cup has been which I know I said on this every time and I will no doubt get criticised for saying so but it's not it's not a signifier of where German is now.

I think it could be argued that it wasn't signifier of white runners and was 25 years ago and I think the amount of Janice like.

Just had it better or coming up there trail better when you look at things like that was one other side element of the story this week beery papers like the sun and the and the male who wants love the fact that the BBC have been exposed to a 2 degree at sighted in the editorials phone hacking and Levinson and some of those issues because you know they feel that the BBC guardian cambus of jumping on the ethics of the tabloids in the mall, but you you look at the reaction now and again.

You know we're talking about a very very different story here until the day and obviously the most famous into probably there's been in the past 50 years, but the flip side of that is I don't think the sun on them or in any decent place to be about whether the interview should have been played again in for diversion.

I mean when Parliament are they ever show the panorama?

Falls from 1997 show clips from what is you suggest is pretty much the most important interview with our life.

No, no, I don't think you can wait once once it's been one Suzanne allegation or of it was obtained under dubious circumstances whatever.

They are talking about it now.

You can't talk about it.

She got the contacts in clips of I mean.

It's like saying are you can't ever read an extract from mine camp you know he surely to talk about it.

You need to start saying you can't have a phone hacking Casey at listening to the to the phone calls that were recorded history of sweet spot as well for the BBC or whatever 6-weeks in regard to the Royal family over 7-years whatever it is.

It's amazing how frequent when there's a proper scandal that goes ballistic at the BBC it's always to do with the royals whether it's the League of it.

The Queen's reaction or Danny bakers supposed to be racist weed when it affects the royal family that's when it's like everyone chimes in the conclusion is often kind of all now we can't trust the BBC anymore Trust has been eroded but we're not royals that why do people feel that on that particular issue that why do people feel the trusses been eroded when someone is in your road has been conned into taking part in a doctor so you know has 10x because they are trusted in those environments and so when it comes after 9/11 you switch on the BBC didn't switch on another network and the royal family in there is no big events around the royal family necessarily but just having any news around the World how many syns a big event and something BBC should Excel in so the stakes are much higher faugan it wrong steaks and much more.

The royalists in the Britain are the chorus of the cold BBC audience and it's all times of the idea that the BBC has to be right all the BBC audience and and the tablets they are even more closer than usual in another sign that the BBC is on the back foot BBC Studios is resetting it search for a CEO after a 10-month process according to deadline BBC Studios the production on the BBC still can't find a hare's they have 2 billion dollars to spend on content and they are one of the world's best makers are content this sort of has a slight ripple around the previous story which is as a public service broadcaster.

There is scrutiny over salaries and you know there is definition about being able to afford.

Got Talent but the other thing is kind of bearing in mind the story would just been discussing you know that if you come to the BBC there is the risk of just a whole new level of scrutiny to what you do for the shows you make all the people who work within your organisation that you don't get in any other media organisation globally and especially bearing in mind the competitive marketplace them again going back to the stories.

We discuss the area around you know mergers and acquisitions and you know there is at that.

There was a very competitive market for top Talent and therefore frankly I'm sure it doesn't mean as much as I can get Elsewhere and I get whole lot more grief what I what I want it so Endemol shine group CEO Sophie Turner Laing is turn down the job apparently all3media CEO Turton the YouTube emea, bus Cecile frot-coutaz as well.

He's just signed up to come the next Chief Executive of sky Studios

The person who gets the job will only get the job when an article in the Guardian harold's the content people of turn it down all the way that's not good luck.

I visit I was very intrigued actually with a line around the story which said that the new BBC chairman whose name of a tree but is an ex Goldman Sachs banker, and I think nobody of Rishi Sunak wasn't originally is looking for people outside of media and I'm not really thought maybe stand out because they think that someone had no experience of running a studio or program making or or TV in this isn't it does seem extraordinary? It's not like either businesses where you know? It's not like you know if you run John Lewis you you know you can possibly going to other areas a retail because you're under our shop work.

So you know I think the idea that you could come in from a different sector does seem quite amazing go maybe I'm just not even and then and some of them quite understand the bigger picture there the BBC is used.

The BBC was always the dream job and I think still in use there a few places better to work a course newsweek is one of them, but there are a few places better to work it in used in the BBC and when it comes to progress 1520 years ago the BBC was the place right and where as now please when you have Amazon you have Netflix you have the Disney you have these places where it is more exciting and freedom and your last night and get a lot more money, so I'd like to your list like president CBBC the list of people who have been approached and said know that you cannot think they need to rethink how that works and it and the scrutiny they want to attract the right saw people topic and the GB news has announced its launch lineup.

What do you make a bit Steve Hartley intrigued?

Things to do that for me what the time and even answers free impartial or something along those lines and it really really hurts and yeah, I know they're saying is operating to Ofcom guidelines which they will be in the UK than there are in the US but that was the thing that stood out for me along with I think they've got a show that ok or something or Andrew Neil programme going to have a work watch that doesn't mean that the whole program is bison a particular in the UK I think LBC for those who don't have done really cleverly.

Is you know it's a 24-hour news channel commercial radio and I guess equivalent of 5 Live but they done that what I've done.

Very cleverly is Pepper that with people who very clearly have asked you I'm different.

Spectrum very clear positions either right or left and that allow them to have very opinionated posts and to regenerate some great content and two obviously interviews all that sort of all that sort of stuff and from what I understand about GB news.

I think they're going to be trying to do a similar thing which is they will be trying to cover the news that would be x in their schedule where they are just covering the words for when is going to be some shows that have very very clear opinionated presenters and I suppose this really gets to the heart of of the times.

We living in there is a cultural going on in that sense.

You know quite interesting if you've seen the YouTube videos launching the station Alex but it all the leading up to the launch, when Andrew Neil's been asked about brexit leave vs.


He saw several that's decided it was ages ago.

What difference does it make of course we can employ people that voted for leave and people who voted for remain and we're not even.

Own promotional videos with only 5 minutes long, but they have a little tip of the hat to the brexit referendum and divide the country was in all the presenters say something about you know we are the station for people that have different diesel every country won't listen to you know this is a seismic and made me think twice about delivering news.

They are referring to it.

I think that's it's code for not and Sophie if you look at their hiring spree which is next level out like anywhere and another person is brilliant if you look at a number of different people across each different county.

If you look they've got a while sport that they've really spent the time and money finance people in those local beats and you are known by the local community because that's what you think.

They're going to get the subscribers from other watches from they're not going to be known as much as they might like to think that you will hate watch them all that's not going to happen.

How can they grow outside the usual conversations you no answer all of this you know woke watch and media watch and and an appointment at being counter-cultural you know even though it's owned by what is coriander in a portion of ITV it's all about connecting people in feel disconnected and that is clever political rhetoric United how about the general is actually send you nearly new was going to have prime Time news program every night, so is Michelle Dewberry each weeknight Dan Wootton as well 5-minutes week Alastair Stewart I think five nights the so-called Alastair Stewart and friends, so I don't know how long that program is exactly what the format is and the presenters of breakfast and Nana akua Kirsty Gallagher Rebecca Hudson Inaya folarin Iman down the calf and Rosie right.

I think I have seen as a convincing argument possibly for it on business terms, Steve is that because the price of advertising is come down and Alex they're trying to be all parts of the country.

Sara Lee what are the news channels at the moment maybe they could attract advertisers who wouldn't normally see themselves as TV advertised is possibly.

I think it's going to be tough you know we're not the us.

We don't have that scale and as you know Sky News is run as a loss leader for many many years even though it's fantastic channel and doesn't does a great job and many other ways has done a great job for Sky but it's not it's not something that's the that's a money maker for Sky clearly.

This is this is a cheaper operation, but it's difficult to see I mean you know the cost of advertising has come down that doesn't play to business trying to make me some prophets technology as well.

I'm curious about that they claim to be the first base Newsroom I wonder if anything Alex launching in the pandemic.

Does me maybe they can come up with something more agile Solutions a new technology that you wouldn't if you started fighting years ago.

I mean.

TV channel in 2021 so I mean as innovative as one can be so bad Hudson new you mentioned no relation and it's spelt differently but she's an old college friend.

Is is running on the digital side and Simon and see what she comes out with his father of the dish element of this as far as it comes with the advantages to your point that we are not we are allowed in what they're doing tonight Sky is already animated around that because of the pandemic in the BBC Studios so it's what do they do differently and I'm looking all the things and I can't see anything yet, and I'm like better is very good at what she does I'm excited to see what happens, but it feels like it's still live in analogue products in 2021.

Is it a surprise by the revenue of the business Broughton actually is digital editor of DVDs unlikely Alex perhaps.

Would you be telling them to do you know across digital spectrum?

But they're not because it is all very Focus isn't it? I'm a kind of old-fashioned TV watch it appears that depends that depends on the videos, so it's the LBC spoilers.

How do you turn those viral clips of LBC they go round every few days.

How do you get the TV news every hour of the day and how do you make sure that they're over 3 minutes so that Facebook can put an ad in front of them have some more media news in Brief and really do it earlier the Arias radios biggest night of the year to place on Wednesday evening a hybrid affair with some attending person most people at home early trends Steve at the Arias yes the BBC One lots of the wards again and global didn't because they didn't enter as we discussed before 4 years now so but yeah, you know you I mean the BBC just just completely dominated it which is interesting because to be fair to the artist the way the judging works is

Is a is the number of nominations are set aside for non BBC Productions never 70% of patients 50/50 so there is every attempt to in the neck be some sort of even playing field bearing in mind the the size of Resource and and and the commercial pressures that the BBC has so I think that sent especially if maybe in a pandemic.

Yeah, I mean when was not surprising you know lots of news wins and you did really well most of it picks up award imaging so that so that's probably a good sign into the station that looks beginning on track but the headline is basically look at those categories the winner is the BBC sometime BBC local dry mean that is you know that's not obvious from the headline is local radio stations within which is kind of hot men.

You know their budgets are so small BBC Radio Sheffield one and particularly.

It's almost they are every local radio station.

Everly's the BBC where every every commercial businesses of looking to focus more likely the BBC is not so that was heartwarming huge huge deal for Radio 1 at the time when I thought I was going to vanish Without a Trace because of the pandemic that changed the schedule.

They made shows longer.

They took shows out.

Yeah, they were supplying local audiences with pandemic news which is really important, but it's hard to imagine that people don't feel stations are worse than my where are year ago, when they have more things happening on them all those things will it does and I mean I actually feel those were changes needed needed to do because a lot of BBC local radio hasn't innovated for a long time also when you look at the size of audiences that some of those stations get it.

How to justify really the spelling is obviously a public service element to insuring local service in a local areas are served by the BBC and I completely understand that particularly once you get outside of London but some of those stations do not have racing Erskine audiences on Friday one at least I think so Congratulations the Crown 0622 to the Crown and how we got here.

What's what? I think is a few a few things that stuck out to me.

I mean first to the breadth of shows which is which is fantastic.

I know that the entries are up by 50% so again.

That's really impressive and obviously completely indicative of where the market is amazing people want to win there isn't it? I mean that's interesting you know from you one where it was a bit of fun feels like competition absolutely British podcast Awards gets reported.

In the mainstream press now than the Arias do you know I think you'll see a lot of pick up around the British podcast Awards the answer at the uuc mentioned for shows that you know it was the British podcast Awards winner that sort of thing that's the difference in the podcast space.

They are just one of many and that's the exciting thing you know they're they're not actually particularly significant player in podcasting against lots and lots of the shows and produces.

I think the other thing that stands out for me is in a lot of the categories now you see and really well made high-end.

You know UK podcast production is reaching a really good moment now and I think you can also see that in the best network and will we got some really fantastic British companies nominated in front kids plosive Productions stacking of a really good production companies making great podcast and so it's wonderful scene going up against other bigger players like like the BBC

Economist the effect it which is being rumoured to be bought by the New York Times so so you know this is this is a wonderful event and and and hats off to the organisers because I just think this is a part of the podcast landscape in the UK I mean it seems very striking to me and this is absolutely what British podcast and excels as it was with budget.

Yeah, it is obvious to me that the things we good at shows where two or three people have a chat and an amusing way or you know have a chat about surprising subject, but he's there in this list that competes with the kind of podcast people love from the states does that I think the without the US market a lot more mature when it comes to the tires and as we all know that us budgeting UK budget whenever really comfortable and you can sell overseas and I don't think there is that many UK podcast that have the international crossover.

The Rogan podcast and a few others as big as they are in the UK and maybe like that you know the football Weekly podcast has 50% UK audience and they still isn't the revenues behind podcasting that will get you this of index of hi-spec then the next level of podcast name Talent isn't it like included in the nominees this year you've got French and Saunders Alan Partridge Louis Theroux amenities the names people have heard of but they're doing the kind of shows that you record remotely over Zuma Doncaster that money that's not what I've got to take issue with you earlier.

I mean I mean obviously there's a lot of shows nominated here and it's easy to pick on the shows that got big name's Alan Alda at studio three shows but equally you've got shows like hunting delain or transmissions the definitive story of Joy Division in a diesel well-made shows in Huntingdon Lane you know exactly that model of selling the TV rights you know it's going to become.

Yeah, absolutely I and you know I can lift many many others you know where is George give me or you know and then even with the studio shows I think you've got a really good quality shows like how do you cope with it? Not just a couple of comedians larking about that has a purpose and that is very much in the best religion to some of the best studio bass shows we are coming out the States advertising and cheers add crunch has now been confirmed as terrible according to figures released by the advertising Association last week.

It's Drunk by 7% overall in 2020, but it wasn't equal newsbrands down 24% regional newsbrands down 35% magazines down 29% That's pretty scary percentages on the radio and it's about 12.6 and 11.8% by comparison, but they are terrible figures for regional news Alex let's start with that because they've already in Dire Straits before coving.

Think about regional news and it is a little bit more analog-to-digital and news every national news brand has an entire team dedicated to maximizing CPM and RPM stand every other dimension that will be at the Google and Facebook and a large part of that market the optimisation and the code in that goes into making sure that functions correctly with user experience the journey the amount of nerdy phrases that I know now working at Costa at the minute means the technical detail and getting getting that revenue from Google from Facebook from wherever it and if you don't have those people which you are less likely to have an original newsbrands means that you're not going to NCP that means I'm not going to have those new forms of Loving You So Well sponsored content partner content content coming in and even that and it's a quick is a very steep learning curve for me even watching.

So if your original use when you hasn't had to deal with that before it's the pandemic just brought into you're not you're not going to be able to innovate quickly enough to cope with the nationalist brands consolidated now.

You know for example should be clever people that work with the algorithm.

Is it just the stories only such a relatively small number of people u2000 people you click on the story football match at the local school.

I really interested in it, but no one else in the world is and I don't know might come down to gdpr regulations and integrated data policy where you can track people across then you cannot see p.m.

Because you can share data with Google and you can tell that goes out tomorrow exactly from the data.

That is looking at from from the from the traffic is down.

It's just the revenue associated with them is so far and because people are turning to different places and the local news Kate needs to look.

Pipers ASDA's ASDA most German places near it's not the traffic is the revenue that traffic is traffic command is shrinking by the week the obvious one to ask you about down 12.6% to 614 million pounds so I mean nothing but you know commercial radio stations and advertising what's going to be the consequence already seen Talent taking takeouts haven't seen the schedules been stripped out what else I mean eventually you'll have to start looking at the cost base because there's not much walking holidays in the industry.

It's not a surprise because obviously you've got a dual attack down on which is music streaming on on the one side and and the very aggressive growth of podcast on the other and so share a vehicle radio stations is really you know he's really under attack this moment where people weren't going to McDonald's and Tesco you know flying with.

Flybe because they couldn't so I mean something advertised as well come back.

What's on of making bad, but I think I think that isn't a lesson there from newspapers which is ultimately if you have a size go and they find other places to advertise effective oil or impactful and generally that does seem to be related around online activities whether you're advertising Spotify or advertising on the podcast you know you come back.

You know the data and information that you can get around who you're eating by going to those sorts of places as opposed to a radio station where you're lying on radio information is just incomparable the wireless model at the moment then a sponsor in shows and sponsoring channels that we staying at the times and the Chris Evans breakfast show and granddaughter because that does seem to be a version of something you can do instead.

I mean I mean you know well done to them because they've looked to innovate.

You know genuinely I have no idea commercially whether that works with them or

They're paying for some you know some really big Talent there and obviously times radio and with Virgin you know the big names involved there, but equally news you can have deep pockets and can afford to invest and and and and hope you a slightly longer game.

So you know I don't know whether it actually works, but I think I think commercial radio in many ways has needed innovation on lots of fun and certainly News UK are company.

I think I'll doing that Alexa at home talking about Google algorithms.

I like it when we put you into an uncomfortable place and make you look at us up fronts programs the US networks are showcasing around for the new and returning series this week.

I think the the diversity thing so the idea that is now financially viable is really really interesting to the idea of that you can actually expand put in stories of people of colour on screen and not having to sort of.

Audience is a beautiful wonderful thing and this thing called aspirational content which is once again new phrase hadn't heard that before the idea that we're creating this of aspirate the Kardashians scripted story right says you are selling the Dream of these lies Rob natural real life which is a person who lives and dies with documentary surprise middle bits so the escapist aspirational fair little blue skies, as is the because I mean Steve Alex has picked out a couple of relatively innovative things babe.

You can also look at the list of things been turned around as a remake of ghosts the BBC comedy.

There's a new version of The Wonder Years you could say is a bit of inclination towards comfort food TV here save Welburn even with The Wonder Years mean how you know the Invention invention with an all-black family so that's really.

Interesting and frankly you kind of want to see the same sort of attitude innovation coming from British TV and it still seems to be you know me you know yes, we minorities and diversity but also with with wider innovation it often seems to me that you know a lot of that does seem to come in a scripted stuff seems to come from the states of Australia where the Australia network ABC is done a deal with Google and Facebook to use their content funneling millions into supporting their journalism.

I suppose I'm sorry to sort last you know what does this mean for us? That's what does this mean for us? What does it mean for the way things might go in the UK you were saying last time you're on Australia's Got a safe place for the likes of Google and Facebook to push the envelope because it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme.

I don't think it means that much for the UK and us this this freedom of the press thing that the UK and the US and so you know that I do is lost all meaning and but

If you are going to start invoicing news sites for Host hosting their content Google is more likely when it's real revenue the plug and see what happens like Google and Facebook are most like to start playing chicken with these providers and in the UK and the US because where has Australia provides a nuisance xx biggest country when it comes to Google and Facebook traffic but you get back to the question of whether or not publishers need to give them more than any publishers.

I think this on Facebook and not the same entity so I think the actual decisions made by Facebook and Google could be very different so where as in traffic from Google is different from the present to the traffic again from Facebook which wasn't the Case 5 years ago, how much power Google has?

Facebook housing be very careful not to trade secrets, how if you're just launched in the UK that's Facebook trying to get on good terms with Google News initiative from Google and which is a form of Article that they open Source software smaller publishers can build website 2 a.m.


To make si quicker and more friendly to Google that deal by itself does not have any in the UK us and it would take a snowball in another three or four country started following it could have a major impact did the biggest play here is the US and I can't see the US movie and then in that case the UK is is going to change the United States

In every country of the World as well, I think I think it goes more back to the middle part of your sentence there the richest companies in the world and that gives them a lot of sway at in terms of what they do need to agree to you know I haven't got a wider perspective not because I'm about to the journalist wisdom of Alex's immersed in this world and you know xx biggest market think I think you said Alex you know can you really see this applying in the US you know don't think so something really very firmly in your wheelhouse Steve apple subscriptions for podcast landed now and not only that is affiliate deal as well.

What does that mean publications in a you gonna use it as something else well, what the affiliate deal means is that you can you recommend someone you can pass this not on for a subscription and benefit as the as these as the program or you know the company whose past that person on you get part of that parcel that payment so you're in.

You're advertising promoting and pushing apple subscriptions and incentivize to say they do so which is obviously a really sensible move to do especially with a new product that's being launched because there's going to be all things we still quite haven't worked out as podcast as are we telling people subscribe and then you do it across platforms maybe Spotify maybe patreon as well.

What do you say specifically go to Apple podcasts because that's where you're getting your affiliate fee.

Will let you know I think the biggest thing about Apple subscriptions is obviously the scale you know patreons grey and he's got a great business model and overseas business.

It's now been really Spotify obviously very very important, but you can't get away from the from the amount of devices that have apple podcasts on them and therefore the ability to reach and new podcast this when is it testing ones and obviously convert a small percentage of those into subscribers because I think probably that's that's like any construction freemium model.

That's what it's going to be if there's going to be a small number of people willing to.

To get an ad-free show or show with extra content or some other benefit.

You know I owe you know I I actually I think I should have done is is really smart.

Yes, yes absolutely I mean what am I gonna use it as individual as a company we are absolutely getting behind it and you know trying a number of different shows on it and and the number different ways that we know we have we book some shows together that will form a channel.

We doing other shows as individual shows that you can subscribe to and we really keen to sort of player.

He just see what sort of metrics.

We get back in and what sort of what amount of users we get back so we can get some learning this is the messaging really clear to listeners though, because that seems a lot to take on board if you're just someone who just download the church of phone.

You couldn't remember it.

Got there.

You know someone then go and do this thing or are you just letting the Apple podcast uses just seen the big button and press it.

I'm not sure it's the right question to ask because it's not necessarily a bad day one impact.

I mean super aggressive and interestingly son in the UK will not a penetration.

Yeah, you know we're not about 50% of people who every week.

I listen to podcast we've got a long way to go still and so you're trying to affect the behaviour change and that's not a day one thing that's about that.

That's a long-term thing about how you start to impact on the behaviour of podcast listening patreon and moonclerk and those kind of company nearly got the hipster bit covered so like there's something more corporate.

Isn't there about doing it via apple podcasts which might put some podcast listeners you feel like getting an elite club supporting something indie might put them off people go wherever their favourite podcast are so it's not really about if they're on if they happen to go and have a look it up on Monday if they're on Spotify Spotify money if there are independent and Celeron patreon or wherever else that's all go to.

People and more like if you look at the impact the Joe Rogan had on Spotify and how many people flocked over to the network like every all people is speaking to your content apple needs more exclusive content Netflix moment of work podcast go believe that has been cornered by also the hipster market the ones you already paying for podcast and so it's all of this emerging market of the the older audiences although other less less avant-garde.

God that's nonsense new technology familiar that people with an iPhone maybe you want then you would use as they're looking for the most things to do on the media.

Podcast is a course the media quiz the highlight of every edition of The Show and we have reached that moment this week.

It is entitled second thoughts in this role.

Play I Will Be James Bolam you are all Lynda Bellingham I will try and Weasel my way out of a number of established trends in the media or you work out what the situation is with hilarious consequences you buzzing with your name when you know the answer so Alex you will say Alex and Steve you will say Steve clear second thoughts.

I'm just reading her script its best of 3 so let's play a bit more exclamation.

No, I'm not having a midlife crisis.

What story am I paradine through the medium of James Bolam change its name to great here story number to but what is it here's my excuse of course I still love you.

I just happen to think that 10:45 was a bit too late to start having a serious.

Alex Newsnight is moving back to search Banff ab45 to 10:30 p.m.

Look Linda I like camping I really do but all the kids do these days is sit in front of their screens.

Endlessly trying to log into a stream.

Let's just watch Eurovision what's the story with parrot excellently buzzing with your name when you know the answer Alex Alex is this about Glastonbury trying to stream my festival and not being able to stream a festival because apparently nothing can never work correctly and said that a lot of Media types of been saying about how difficult is the strings.

Yes, it is exactly that story and I did deliriously hear it being discussed on 5 Live at the end, and they all failed whilst trying.

So I mean come on past 50 months been terrible losing all music festivals have been terrible Glastonbury is the greatest music festival time they tried to do something to replace not the UK with basically no, I mean just have something there.

It's clearly been very popular and people wanted to watch it and then and pay for a ticket for it.

So yeah, you know I got massive affection for Glastonbury so I just want everything to work for Glastonbury and I really hope that they're back next next year in in in top in topstile.


I will see you at where you found next Year's Eve but I'm afraid you have lost Alex is the window with that tram from second answer congratulations Alex thank you.

Very much is a my thanks to win Alex Hudson and Steve Ackerman the media podcast is totally independent which is why we went down the 90s sitcom route for quiz we are beholden to no-one that you if you can look forward to.

then head to the media donate episodes when I drop on your podcast of Joyce you can subscribe for free for now at Media podcast the new Microsoft Surface laptop for has more power and all-day battery life to run your favourite absent games the vibram touch screen comes in two sizes and a built-in HD camera and studio mic delivers crystal-clear video calls Microsoft Surface laptop for is designed for performance and style the Microsoft Surface laptop for is available at John Lewis and Partners

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