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hello, have you got out of the cupboard and glory having heard so much about the problems over years I do wonder if I'm missing out on a national cultural event that should be as much mine as anyone else's when the Proms begin though in a rather truncated form due to covid-19 talking to the director David Pickard and whether there are plans to change the last night whether there will be any promenaders actually in and whether stravinsky has been done down and is the BBC under covering one of the biggest foreign story I trusted the BBC as a new source from the almost complete absence of coverage from the appalling developments in South Africa is a standing too will be talking to the director of SAS about the coverage what he believes is the Great

Prices of the country since the end of a partridge and skip the asked me to buy a baby dragon Winehouse called The Legacy of a lioness and what's the title Justified find out later in feedback.

The Proms are back next week go for a slightly shorter run of six weeks rather than the usual 8 and after last hour with plans to emit the lyrics and play instrumental versions instead the last night will feature Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory song in full however the concerns over covered as meant that for mystery Proms have been scheduled and it's how many people will actually be in the Albert Hall itself well to answer some of those questions is the director of the Proms David Pickard what are these mystery Proms you going to plus well right now.

We're still working on them.

I mean one of the reasons.

Why we wanted to leave these concerts blank was because you know the time that we were planning most the rest of program.

We were in complete lockdown in January and February and I just wanted to make sure that we had the flexibility to respond to circumstances as they changed the very different position now from the one that we were in February and with constables open and

Loud so we're hoping to be able to announce shortly exactly what those programs are going to be but we have a me for something a little bit more and just put so far this season having they will happen absolute radio through would shoot me if they didn't have a live concert every night.

So can we ask you about the audience is a question from one from span Judy macaris the Albert Hall included within the government.

This is a British national institution national pride just as much as football or Wimbledon last year the p.m.

Waded into the discuss the Land of Hope and Glory Rule Britannia in Jerusalem how are covent restrictions going to impact on the promises here and particularly on the Last Night of the Proms David Icke audiences of courses me remained very up in the air certainly of the last few weeks, but I'm pleased to say that with the recent government announcements.

We are now going to be open up but the whole of the other old folk.

Play so that can be happening you as we speak Roger we're making those arrangements for that to happen so exciting me we have the potential to have much bigger audiences and the other than we thought we might be able to what's the largest audience possible is what's 5000 and I thought you were going to have a bad 1020 percent of that you're not going to have up to 5000 we started to 2000 identity gets to as many as 5000 is parking at much bigger stage to accommodate the Covent requirements and of course we have holes for cameras and various other positions, but the main thing is we will be able to offer many more seats to our audience and also right now to put on more the cheaper price as well of course which is an important part of the festival is obviously a very difficult time, but it's an opportunity.

I suppose as well certainly happy king of Britain is very excited about this year's program.

Does absolutely tons of great stuff at the Proms this year.

I'm particularly excited about the performance by nubya Garcia the new piece by Shiva feshareki and that there are so many women conductors.

I'm very impressed with a programming and just wish there was more of it.

What happened to the late-night concerts for first of all is this a real opportunity? Have you actually enjoy the freedom to broaden its been an odd experience because it's been very challenging for all of us working with promise, but you know there are positives about it and it's very nice to hear those comments but you know we what we try to do is keep the spirit in within the smaller number of concerts that we have and of course I would love to come late night concerts as well as mine evening concerts but again I think we just have to be really careful not to over program in a day means another to rehearsals in the day.

We have to be really careful about how we should your concerts and I think the upside of it is that even in the shortest season you know we still have 52 concerts that there's something happening every night for 6 weeks and I'm very proud of what we've achieved from on my team so we have the number of listeners.

Also very keen on what you're going to include that some worried about what's been left out here.

Nicholas is great there is so many living composers represented with premieres of new works however with the exception of Philip classed as a whole golf music written between about 19 and 2020 that isn't represented which makes the Welcome addition of a smattering of women and global composers seem very tokenistic David Pickard well stick to what we doing.

I'm think it's incredibly important of the Proms you know we redress the balance of the musical pass by making sure that we do represent more ethnically diverse and female composers program.

I mean as for the lack of music from 1930s to 2000 eunos.

There is plenty music by composer to write in June..

There's four Williams has blown.

It's just took over this Prokofiev how many composers not all alive today of course but actually writing that pairing rocking really significant pieces amusing well as you know there's always a worry with the Proms and Radio 3 or other section of our audience which is all.

Where is about so-called Dunning down this time or email comes from Christopher Fox at Brunel University I think it would have been furiated stravinsky 50 years after his death that the operation of that anniversary didn't include any of the amazing Music who wrote in the last 25 years of his composing career canticum sacrum in particular.

Would have been perfect Albert Hall this feels a lot like a dumbing down of the composer.

I think was the greatest of the 20th century.

Well.

I won't ask you do with picture of your dress, but why nothing from The Last 20-years of his composing career well the pieces mention that can come back from would be a great piece includes also piece of involves a chorus which is really still very challenge at the moment in terms of porcine.

That's been one of the big limitations of this summer's Proms am I hope that the disappointment about you know not representing some of his later works is mitigated by the fact that you know we have some.

37c Symphony by the London Symphony Orchestra we have the ballets Yoda carp with blood me Ruskin vlpo.

That's very rarely heard in the concert hall, and the Amazing experience of Aurora playing this week from memory which will be such a different and exciting way of looking at this great composer.

I will you have your fingers crossed for that.

So you have to be confident about well done this before it's one of them being the most extraordinary promise.

This is amazing Orchestra who throw away the music stands and play it from heart and it's a really extraordinary experience and a concert hall on and it will be again this year whether I listen to the France for the first time.

I don't know if that's the case with Peter Alan but he certainly are a relatively new listen only has this question where and how might I most easily be able to enter into something from the promise to creating more interesting me in this cultural event which for years.

I have heard about it as of yet.

If not taking the plunge into so David

Can you suggest an entry point for Peter Alan well? I think it's great that you're thinking of coming to the promise of summer and I would say that the most important thing at the promises is to try and pick a concert house was really great piece of well-known classical music in it because fuel slightly nervous about the concert experience and I'm want to make sure that you enjoy it.

I think that's one very important entry point for people so something like New World Symphony which is on August the 8th or the Elgar cello Concerto on August 9th season 2 fantastic tower in pieces of Music and and I think you would have a wonderful experience hearing them in the concert hall and in the the proms in the Albert Hall which makes every console I think feel very special well.

Obviously you've been covered is not everything very dramatically but your overall strategy when we last talked to was to try do more concert from out more promise performances from out of London from different spaces does that remain your ambition once covered as well, it's not defeated but is in Greater retreat.

Absolutely remains our ambition and I'm sad that we're not able to do anything outside London this year for all sorts of practical reasons, but you know it is very much or intention from next year onwards that we will be doing more outside on the building that sort of presents outside the capital and you know it's something we started already before the pandemic with concerts outside London it something I'm really really can we continue in the future? When do I get that after this year? They'll be no experimentation with the Last Night of the Proms the last of the Proms last year was performed.

I think more lessons people would expect it with you and Land of Hope and Glory song in the Albert hall, and it will be sunny again this year.

I think what will be different this year and what will be exciting this year is there will be an audience there as well to enjoy it, so I'm sure to be very special evening of The Wizard and I'm sure as well.

Hope you don't get pinged of you and your performance don't get a picture too often take out.

Thank you very much for talking.

Thank you and you let us know your thoughts about that interview with address.

David Pickard or anything else to do with BBC Radio and podcasts curry has the details of how you get in touch email to feedback and bbc.co.uk write a letter the addresses feedback PO Box 672 34 London se1p 4ax you can follow your activity on using at BBC R4 feedbag, or you can call us and leave a phone message on 03304450059 charges apply on some mobile networks all those details for on our website for asking to BBC Radio listeners to step out of their comfort zones and listen to a program that would normally be on their leader this week.

We have to day to take from Glasgow

From Croydon if you were stranded on a desert island News cast dead ringers and the Archers what about you then Jack round by you and yours p.m.

And Desert Island Discs what we asked you to listen to in one of those of course instead to Legacy of a lioness Amy Winehouse documentary series on Radio 2 and also available via BBC sounds and is also an additional podcast you can listen to Jack how would you describe the program explain what it's all about this discussion between three artists we have Jessie Ware Ella Henderson and Alexandra Burke pop singers who have been influenced in some way or shape or form by Amy Winehouse during her it's an hour-long kind of exploration of her life and Legacy so we start with her career Beginnings he goes through various facets of her work song writing critical acclaim and

The Beginnings of her downfall it kind of picks up on parts of her career V Festival where things started become a little bit unfriended ending to the story anyway.

It's really was in part 1 the Golden Years in these documentaries songs by difficult to get the balance and it between music and interview sometimes you feel shortchanged.

Did you feel short changed by the music by the interviews actually thought the music was the best bet it was a bit just like see people gushing about how great we thought she was but I didn't feel the gave me a lot of information on new insight lesbian some good documentaries on Netflix and that was quite good, but I didn't feel the radio programme really achieved that will it century it wasn't a life story my story is integral to the music it was The Legacy of the Venice on the claim was that she had a very substantial impact on music popular music.

Play them know I didn't think I think it was a bit stretching to see that any of these two artists near perception know they perceived that she has had an influence and Stitch 2 cannot claim that he was a real an important one.

I was actually yeah, because I thought that the strength of the programme was that some of these people that degree removed from Amy Winehouse so I wouldn't necessarily of connected Ella Henderson Alexandra Burke with Amy Winehouse before I listen to the documentary.

I wasn't familiar with Jessie Ware it was interesting to reflect on how she responded to my house in the same way that maybe African Americans may have responded to Billie Holiday in the 1930s.

I mean the voice you took me away and I personally was singing a lot of jazz standards at school.

I was seeing you lots of Gershwin lots of cold Porter and then I heard this jazz singer who was a Jewish girl who was the same age as me?

And that first intro with stronger than me and you hear these words and you're like she's getting away with saying you're longer than frozen Turkey and yeah, it sounds so poetic animes.

She sounds like she's so North London I just keeping is about when you're getting pop stars to talk isn't they talk about the subject and they talk about them settles to think that was the case in this instance.

I think it was maybe you need a bit more Direction about more Crompton to cancel the floor of what you were saying and it was a lot of repetition and you would be listening to in 15-minutes and it would certainly be introduced the program which can I cut off the full of anything.

It's just a bit of a confused the idea was good.

I just don't think it was delivered, but maybe it just wasn't matipo programme well.

They do keep reminding people listening to Radio 2.

Music apps just in case you was switching off but I think that's a station Style but we're doing it Jack would you like to have a presenter who perhaps need these things together explain some things in Coventry and then to have some of these interviewees to think there we say two little hard or more differently about what they were saying with that.

I helped you think it felt like it needed a presenter definitely agree with Julie and I felt HSE where are the kind of presents to have that role and it's a saying that she didn't really ultimately really good actually really liked her and I felt she came across really well.

It was a lot of onions and I think one of my concerns going to this documentary was because Decline and Fall was a tragic but that's what we always focus on.

How did it happen? How could this girl before she's 40 have gone this way who can have stopped who's at fault blame somebody what this programme did was remind you at home.

Beginning senator prime how good she was talking about the festival key to the line but anyway wasn't to sort of mortgage and anyway wasn't it? Didn't elaborate unnecessarily which I think was quite sensitive at the end of your comfort zone have some for the second question as well to you.

Which is whether you're going to listen to part two of the documentary so true.

We were out of your comfort zone think it was the kind of style in the weight was laid out and talking about a singer and an artist so I think I actually fell asleep during the second listen to the end of the first one, but I don't really listen to the second one, so now I wasn't really mapping which is a shame about music.

I would have presumed have enjoyed it, too.

How about you Jack out of your comfort zone? I was out of my conversation because I don't normally listens to the documentaries on Radio 2 on the factual programming there, so I would look for it or found it but I did quite enjoy it.

I think that it would need some further work little bit more investment in giving the programs and structure represented, but I would definitely try similar programs.

I can in future and party.

Will you listen to the podcast and then I'll make up my mind.

Would you listen to Amy Winehouse again and more than you would have done truly my dad actually like me to buy you a few years ago.

So we should baby tracker out and Jack we should be on your playlist more she will be she's on my playlist before in the past, but she's back on there now, but I can't really thank you very much for talking to us and do let us know if you would like to be put out of your comfort zone.

Well, as if curbing wasn't enough South Africa has been suffering from widespread rioting and looting a polling violence into provinces has resulted in over 200 people dead and 1/2 thousand people arrested and many businesses have been torched all this follow the jail in a former president of Jacob Zuma was the first large be spontaneous, or was it pre-planned the supporters of the former president has not been up to scratch and that there's been two little bit earlier.

I talk to professor Adam Habib director of the school of Oriental and African Studies at the University of London and formerly vice-chancellor of the University of advertisement in Johannesburg I asked him if this is the greatest South Africa has experienced since the end of apartheid absolutely I think that the we've had other crises since 1994 but

Does crises have threatened the legitimacy of the South African state effectively in at least two parts of that country the fundamental question that the scale of the riots is some at least significant players wear questioning the authority of the state.

It was if you like the pub the single most significant challenge to the legitimacy of the South African states since 1984 will it to give that sort of assessment that some of our listings of wondered whether the BBC coverage has been extensive enough or if you like inside for enough? This is from craigmillar.

I trusted the BBC as a new source for many years yet the almost complete absence of coverage from the appalling developments in South Africa is a standing to me if the BBC mention South Africa tool to put the reason for the right down to the incarceration of former president Zuma

Set my evolution been an excuse but now parts of the country look like the aftermath of major walk and the story has evolved the wholesale looting and destruction have nothing to do with Zuma but I'm sure the BBC would say that of course there isn't a complete absence of coverage that has been some coverage, but do you think professor have been it's been sufficient? No, I don't actually I was tracking the initial days in a row as you can imagine the South African located in London having just relocated your 6-7 months ago.

I was looking at what was playing up and I cross my mind why is the BBC have such a small coverage of what playing out in South Africa compared to let this guy or some of the other broadcasting houses and quite struck by that now.

I can't say that I listened to all of the stations, but I was quite struck by their not being a sufficient coverage of this I do things rumours.

Isolation Play-Doh I don't think it tells the whole story I think there is much to be said about a fictionalized and divided agency and stakeholders within the ANC fighting for control of both the ANC and the ruling party and then government itself and also think that one has to the scale of inequality and how the scale of inequality in the society has had a dramatic role in if you like The Glitch is violence that you saw in that played out so didn't quality of you like is the tinder but what seems to have in your setting in this case use of the lights or rather the sort of matches have been provided by supporters of President yes, so what I would say is that South African many of us have been writing about this for many years is a very very dangerous social economic environment high levels of inequality.

Tinderbox if you like but inequality on its own doesn't explain why you took place a deceased oracle moment politics matters and that politics manifesto firstly by the fact that you have a divided A&C and secondly by the fact that zoomer got incarcerated and what the zoom Attraction use that opportunity to ferment Lynn to be honest.

They were quite astonished because the rebellion bring viral at least into provinces and it ran way ahead of much to think that is due to social media and the amount of misinformation that is around at least that's what president ram.

Opposer has claimed the dramatic of levels of misinformation.

Do you think that Africa is that is perhaps in the United States and it seemed to me that social media played an important role false information played an important role and what I call malevolent.

politicians with deliberately try to fan the Flames of rebellion and Tom Jones try to find the Flames of racism manipulated the times of Wickes well listeners, Stephen panels has another question about the BBC's coverage the BBC show the people looting and police and army deploying with a cetaceans of inequality being a threat but what about actually getting to hear the voice of looters for civil Society leaders in the areas where there is trouble although the Zulu King and Anglican Bishop of Zoolander getting thrown and other local leaders would have been helpful to have heard from them or more in-depth investigation into the real extent of inequality shooting that needs to be more in-depth coverage of equality and giving voice to people who don't sort of automatically stand-up like president Zuma or others and call the attention of the world's press so I do think that's

I think that is impossible.

I'm not so sure it should only be with local leaders.

I think that that's important, but I also think that they may be of value to speak to actually actually involved in the act and there has been some work done around.

This is a beautiful pleased that I came across the other day from a young man who was in the interview Motors and what day spoke about what's the depth of inequality the depth of the poverty and how covid-19 and the impact it had on the economy in the loss of jobs over the last 12 to 80 months.

So what what we've had is not only a society that deeply and equal and has becomes more since 1990 for the last 18 months.

You've had a pandemic that are actually throughout the social structure of South African Society

And literally employment to immigration and so people wear desperately starving people didn't have food on the table and many of these people I don't care about Jacob Zuma I saw an opportunity to get bread on the table and so I think coverage that speaks to the flavour the daily flavour of the inequality and how defines people's lives will enrich the powerful when's the BBC capture that to be honest.

I don't think Money Media's is kept that I think it's Africa only if you were able to get to the off the flavour of what was playing out my thanks to professor Adam Habib SOAS and in response to the criticism of the South African coverage BB

Escapist this statement the BBC has covered the recent unrest in South Africa which has been described as the worst in decades including reports from correspond in a circle and Romana Kizi on the ground.

We have explained the reasons behind the unrest and reached out to different voices in the community and from across the political spectrum b04 featured on the news at six and the news at 10 as well as across the BBC news channel and that's it for feedback for this week next week.

I'll be talking to comedian Mark Steel about his new radio unite which has just come to an end and whether there are more Mark steels in town in the pipeline.

Do let us know what you think of those series had any questions you like us to put him until then keep on keeping safe goodbye.