Read this: 06/08/2021 Radio 4 Feedback

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts of us from both right and left attractive to authoritarianism feeling liberal democracy has let us down that was a claim explode on Radio 4 this park, so I can deal with this way did trump lost you definitely lost after listening to this fascinating interview.

I appreciate that the closest of the result was no accident in feedback this week.

I'll be talking to the Sparks presenter Helen Lewis about her search for fresh ideas and analysis and her determination to give interviewees the time needed do I blind them and a year after that devastating explosion in Beirut why did Radio 4 Sunday worship wants to come to church service has been used for an alternative political purpose and if someone's a lot of the good work the churches achieved over the last 18 months and the BBC is achieved.

I'll be putting that.

Watch TV series producer of Sunday worship and asking whether religion can ever be free of politics and to evolve menswear and out of out of the comfort zone's when they listen to a world service programme about modern technology that was used was quite difficult to follow.

It's quite complex yeah.

Yeah, but where there any moments of Enlightenment or Christ of Eureka find out later in feedback?

In Radio 4 spark, Helen Lewis talks to leading thinkers who posit solutions to the structural problems of our age at least that's what it says on the tin recent additions an interview with neurosurgeon Henry Marsh who discussed how the law should deal with terminal illness as he comes to terms with his own death sentence and a political psychologist and behavioral economist Karen stenner claimed her research showed that a third of humanity is predisposed to authoritarianism and sharp and how liberal democracy my deal with that challenge This Is What some of these additions Leah on Twitter excellent interview with Karen stenner who's researching insight of thought-provoking and can help us better understand how to reach those were prone to authoritarianism those with cognitive limitations on naturally likewise prefer simplicity and be ill equipped the complexity which sounds like a can attend all the way.

Stupid people more likely to be authoritarian.

We'll see how are you said that? I didn't there is no polite way to say that.

I'm just be careful with the words because it really bothers people in on the person who gathers and collect the data and tells you what the data are saying I can't help the fact that some people seem to have a limited capacity to deal with Diversity and complexity and that doesn't mean that we looked down and condescend upon them and smear at them.

I mean I'm on the record over professor Andy Levy haven't Lewis's an interview force me to reconsider my long-held and now I realise rather lazy view that liberal democracy is the only societal structures that can deliver the comfortable freedoms we take for granted UK apparently as many as one-third of us are predisposed to prefer authoritarian political Systems characterized by order and conformity compelling data from twin studies showed that about half of this predisposition.

Determinism is heritable which is pretty similar to the propensity to obesity so trump lost you definitely lost but after listening to this fascinating interview.

I appreciate that the closest of the result no accident somebody will find that fraser-pryce with paying quite shocking.

It's not something with you something to deal with the fact that they will be down size 20 will be musical reality every dragon side effects every operation has a risk Price worth paying but it's surprise Jean Whitehead I'm currently listening to a great time about assisted dying so refreshing to hear a man state an opinion and such a clear and unequivocal manner instead of the two frequent mealy-mouthed interviews with people constantly watching what say obviously Henry Marshes extremely well qualified to talk on the subject and which he has both professional and personal experience.

Please.

Can we have more on this subject and more?

People speak their minds in such a forthright way, well.

I'm delighted to be joined by the presenter Helen Lewis Helena wants to watch the spark.

You're looking for we really looking for some solution to something that was the plan of manifesto for the programme going in it can often feel like people having lots and lots of argument switch off and don't feel particularly productive and is a place for Debate and discussion and for people to things that he might find provocative but at the end of it.

You will have mood for reducing your jobs for presenter.

Not providing balance.

We have to challenge to a degree but essentially bringing out what and proven what idea is rather than providing a critique of it radio broadcaster before you know they are there in the trenches of whatever it is that they're trying to do and that I think requires a slightly different presenting style.

You know you can't give them the kind of fool hairdryer treatment.

They would climb up.

See my role really as a standing for the listener, who is there too kind of interesting but have you thought about this or let me just put this to you.

I'm not sure that makes sense and have you come to this out of frustration about the way in which a lot of debate is conducted either certain ideas.

Can't be discuss or something is discuss that has to be two or three people arguing with you.

Yeah.

I think there is a problem.

I thinking at the moment but we know that concentration cells we know that people are attracted to know rubbernecking big clashes and there's obviously a place for that there are divisions in our Society and people have a right to have but there's also a place to have a more quiet thoughtful exploration of difficult issues and actually one that I think this is the crucial thing comes through with the Assumption everybody is there is in good faith.

You know people disagree with you.

Not evil either and actually what we should really do is try and work through objections and that kind of what is a noble sentiment, but when you look at for the reaction on Twitter sometimes, so what people are trying to.

Particularly for example of the transgender is suing I know you've had some abuse about that.

It's difficult not to be long evil at least they don't want to listen and you think that that is having an effect on who have ideas outside of the mainstream who have to think twice three four times to advance them because they know probably the result of challenging conventional Wisdom will the baby abuse I think it's really honest.

It's not other people this is actually how I feel.

You know there is a reluctance to put your hand into the bear trap.

That's a normal human reaction what kind of mask is loves all the time but human Society only progresses when we have some allowance for people who say things that a minority opinions you know for Mavericks I'm writing a book about genius at the moment and it is astonishing Henry the great disk completely laughter and the time never came from people outside it off and you Mary Curie just really struggle to get a professorship in loads of stories like that and so we have to have a tolerance for minority opinions and

Same things which we don't necessarily want to hear otherwise.

He doesn't actually move forward.

Is it difficult to find people who want to talk bluntly I mean listening Dean Whitehead for example really enjoyed how doctor has been such as she said forthright way, is it difficult to find such people and do sometimes you get turned down when you ask people to come on the programme because the heat will be too great.

I don't think we've had any refuse, but I think that's the fact that we ducked out of the headline.

Kind of Culture war controversies and we tried to find some subjects for the preheated reactions, but are less well in school exclusions people who are strongly about that, but it's not something that's a constant day in day out subject of cultural, so I think that's part of it.

We were very lucky with Henry Marsh he is very plain spoken and comes from the fact that he has spent her entire career dealing with death Wish I think put in a few people shout at you on Twitter in perspective really and I think those are the best interviewees for us are people who.

11 breather subject everyday and they feel that what they're saying is so important that there are consequences for saying it is still were saying they really care.

What action did City into you did with Karen stenner at the cheese left academia, hasn't she did it free her to talk to you definitely free to her and I think if you search for people like Jonathan hate.

We do have an issue now and I can do me which is the disease overwhelmingly left wing and the counter point that they putting the book the copy in their commanders that institutions like the police have become much more right-wing and the people within them and what we should M40 societies have institutions with Diversity of thought and opinion so I think she raises a quite a challenging point for the left her that someone like her who's doing important work didn't feel it could do it within the Academy but at the same time.

It means that she has got more freedom to be challenging to all sites what I find interesting but she said you know we talked a lot about right wing authoritarianism.

More familiar with examples from Europe and America less familiar with South America which has authoritarianism, so she gets attacked from all sides of the political spectrum because nobody wants to paint hair is just because it's from the other side.

You should not really here to help but she not one of us which is kind of ironic given that the subject of researchers precisely feelings of oneness and sameness and how they attracted to people who used to be the deputy editor of the New Statesman before you move to the Atlantic and I think that new Statesman didn't you bound the word I didn't get to say to you, please.

Don't you? Don't use the word radical too much by the weather's meaning of national days or rather is being abused.

Yeah, we were a bit soft on the word radical and also the word revolutionary.

You know you have a lot of things been described as revolutionary ideas and I think there's a dangerous over what we doing what I think about this program.

I'm really glad that it people feel that it works because I think that people could have the bad version of it is very easy greens.

You know hero we did provide you a kind of Alexa

It looks like we're succeeding in October that what was succeeded in doing is saying here interesting people with interesting to say and radios the perfect medium to draw that out over a longer time period then you get almost so often the ideas are quite small in themselves.

So Hilary Cottam who wants to revolutionize in a radical way the welfare state one of the ideas is setting up essentially telephone telephone to the tag teams for older people that I can listen to music Together incredibly lo-fi idea cost almost nothing but to people who are isolated and alone is it literally a life? It means that I feel connected to other people.

I think that is quietly radical.

You know it's not going to go on the front page of anyone's political manifesto book for those people involved.

It has changed their life and that's the kind of you know we're trying to make even very small things can have a huge impact our thanks to Helen Lewis presenter of the spark on Radio 4 and do let us know your thoughts about that interview or anything else to do with BBC

Podcasts Neil sleat as the details of how you get in touch you can send an email to feedback at bbc.co.uk the addresses feedback PO Box 67234 London se1p 4ax you can follow activity on Twitter by using at BBC R4 feedback or you can call us and leave a phone message on 03333440524 standard landline charges apply, but it could cost on some mobile networks all those details are on our website this week for asking to BBC Radio Leicester step out of their comfort zones and listen to a program that wouldn't normally be on their radar this week.

We have a mother and daughter combination mum Amanda Richardson who works in adult education.

Leeds and daughter Emily who is a mechanical engineering graduate and works as an engineering Bristol the significance of which will become apparent now Amanda just before we start with your street programs if you were stranded on a desert island, just to give us a sense of your taste when I go for the Arches the fortunately podcast with Jane Garvey Glover and Tony's breakfast show on Radio 3 right.

What are you Emily you're my top 3 would probably be Desert Island Discs you're dead to me and the Radio 1 Breakfast Show a rather different program or an episode of the Tech tent on the world service available on BBC sounds presented by Rory cellan-jones and he has within the BBC reporter David Molloy so how would you describe that program? I would say is sort of a Roundup of news headlines relating to the Tech Ender

From the last month or so and Amanda who do you think this program is for students for people or it truly is it for techies or is it for the general list as well? I guess it depends on what the subject matter is I felt very out of my depth with a lot of what we discussed in the program will be honest and I felt that I didn't have enough technical background to be able to access some of the things that being discussed with three things weren't there been discussed.

There was served the Tech Giants bumper profits.

There was an interview with the CEO of Intel about trying to regain silicon chips and then there was a future is the battle with online terrorist propaganda being one that last one.

You know they're online battle would be in it would have been interesting.

Yes that was on a found most interesting and most accessible the interview with the Intel guy to be up to be honest.

I had to listen to it a few times.

I I kept switching off because I had no.

Interest in the subject matter I'm afraid this girl singer explaining how he would regain the lead in silicon chip.

So what about you? Emily was this a program.

Do you think we did have but the knowledge and interest of time yeah like a program that was of aimed at people who already work in their tech industry.

I think quite a lot language.

That was used was quite difficult to follow.

Yeah.

Yeah enough to go onto the website and I think some of them.

I would listen to you know the ones that are the social moral implications of technology and how its used I just think this particular episode apart from the bit at the end.

I just didn't feel anything that grabbed my interest in this situation and is the presentation and Emily they tried to be sort of chatty Rory cellan-jones and and Dave Malloy and it had a

Podcast feel to me at the front where the subject matter do that help.

I think it was sort of like you were dropping in on to technical colleagues having a discussion.

It was always like there was no need for them to sort of explain the terminology.

They're using because they sort of both understudy Johnny me this week is BBC technology reporter David Montoya how's your week been day been busy for good.

I've been recording and video games in the day and playing them at night.

So busy busy like your normal week here's a flavours.

What's coming up about the quotes you got a couple of other presenter reported that 1 things you can do after that sort of interview is as it were deconstruct the divide between a mother and daughter.

Do you think your mother and the people of her age and

Myself are actually pretty illiterate when if that's the right word when an Indian l when it comes down to technology that there is a massive divide between your mother and you and tells understanding.

Yeah.

I agree with you to a certain extent.

I'm aware my interview, but yeah occasionally think I'm useless.

I think the difference is that I was sort of a mama first teenagers to grow up with social media and seeing the evolution of smartphones really quickly new ways of doing things basically and I think it's more and shoot if your generation definitely yeah.

I think we have to learn where's you just pick it up well, let's ask the question.

We always ask at the end of these discussions Emily first.

We had a bit of confidence and would you listen to another program this Siri

I think I was more out of my comfort zone than I expected to be I'm not sure I listen to another one in the series unless it was specifically looking the social side of technology.

That's the part of the program that I found the most interesting and the part of the program that I didn't struggle to follow the technical language and economy was going to be to be honest, but as I said go back on and have a look at some of the other episodes and I thought I might give it a listen so that's the beauty BBC sounds can actually I can choose but yeah definitely family and Amanda thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Let us know if you would like to be put out of your comfort zone.

By the way, Rory cellan-jones who presents tech tent announced this week that he will shortly retire from the BBC at the age of 63.

He hasn't given a reason but his department is being moved to Glasgow and Rory has Parkinson's Disease the tribute from his colleagues, what heartfelt he is greatly light and admired a year ago to the day and nuclear size double explosion at Berwick sport killed around 200 people injuring more than 6000 and displacing 300000 Radio 4 Sunday worship Mark the anniversary with a broadcast from the National Evangelical Church in Beirut the oldest arabic-speaking Protestant church in the Middle East and less than the km from the explosions epicenter was it an appropriate for the programme? This is how something you reacted to the broadcast John Hopkinson very moving content and presentation of the impact of the Beirut blast.

Search there and on the impact on daily life optimistic service yet sad moving and real something terrible has happened and it came in many lives and homes however.

We are able to see something truly beautiful among us.

It was a revolutionary and Lebanese history however, it is very upsetting does after an entire rear no justice is taking place and those who died were injured or lost their homes were brushed aside on a penny it was an extraordinary opportunity to enter into the pain and the rest of the people of Lebanon we hear so many horrifying stories are around the world which can feel remote from the comfort of rural, Worcestershire

Celebration of life with all its profound anguish and amazing beauty has I hope change me a letter.

This is the purpose of Christian worship and I am grateful the explosion in Beirut sport was emblematic of everything that has been going wrong in Lebanon and which ended up and a big bang forcing us all to our knees and pulling US into a vortex of communal despair years of corruption successive dysfunction and governments deeply entrenched sectarian mindset where aggravated by the developments in the surrounding countries David Cronin today service is the first time I've stopped the BBC Sunday worship service in 18 months the topics in poorly chosen the Beirut bombing and it's impact on the Lebanon community looking very political and lemon unfocused.

This is not church and

Disappointing I really complain all feedback but on this occasion.

It seems a church service has been used for an alternative political purpose and the sun shines a lot of the good work the churches achieved over the last 18 months and the BBC is he well I'm delighted to be joined by the series producer a Sunday worship Philip Wilson why did you think it appropriate to do a Sunday worship from very well, it's a situation of massive human need with a big religious history huge religious history all the engine churches are there and I understood that so many of them have been affected by the explosion so it seemed natural to find out how they were coping and what was going on a year after the explosion well as you know most of our audience like the program and minded but David worried about this.

He thought it became very political and Lebanon Focus nieces.

This is not church and very disappointing.

Do you accept it was?

Well festival, I'd want to say how did I say was that David Cronin stated, so clearly that is enjoyed Sunday worship right across the last 18 months and he said they were excellent programs.

I'm sorry but she didn't enjoy this program.

I want about the charge of it specifically with a very political and lemon was always 11-speed very political but I do understand the concerns not to be political, but we were Mr music of a year ago.

It's a human story and another political than any other event that we might refer to in Sunday worship.

Did you when you were talking producing from afar were you keen to stop any remarks being made which suggested who might have been responsible for the atrocity of the word may not have been maybe just a dreadful dreadful mistake, but you were you keen to avoid questions of responsibility.

Well of course because we're not a journalistic program and anyway.

No one seems to know who was actually responsible all that was said.

Programme was that people are lying for Justice which is a distinctively Christian prophetic wish and we are really in the realms of the pathetic.

Love the political statement like that of course the relationship between religion and politics is much debated.

Whether one should have much do with the other and I don't suppose it's resolved plus Christ said render unto Caesar the things.

This is got the things that a God but when you're talking about situations on the ground.

Is it difficult not to be political you have to speak out presumably evening a non-political programme when you see people being a Preston abuse well as you know.

What are the Christian tradition is to address matters of injustice.

Whether they be racial.

Will they be gender-based or any other matter of injustice the prophets have been doing that for millennia and so did Jesus and so it'd be very strange indeed if Sunday worship.

Suddenly ceased to take any area of responsibility in this particular respect however, we are very careful not to be party political and not devices because of course nobody has a right of reply in a worship GoGo unlike any other gymnastic program.

Well tomorrow has this to say about a Sunday worship service in the I was touched by the effort of Sunday worship this week to commemorate.

What would have been the 100th birthday of the Duke of Edinburgh my only wish is that we as a nation like Echo the words of the Dean of st.

George's Chapel Windsor and be content to sustain our faith with an ordinary Sunday matins.

Where has the many pockets of the country this tradition is slipping further away.

I hope that Sunday worship may act as the revising Spa which is so desperately needed to see yourself.

Institute for ordinary Sunday matchings or do you support the view of Tim well? It's a beautiful and value tradition especially in cathedrals and greater Paris churches and as Sunday worship trolls to reflect what's going on across the country in all its diversity from time to time we will continue to have a matins on Sunday worship of the morning on Sunday however, it's also worth pointing out that be cool.

Even some tradition is very well represented on vegetable system network Radio 3 with both a program on Wednesday afternoon repeated on a Sunday afternoon and that is a very similar experience to matins but nonetheless we do want to provide listeners with patterns on Sunday worship, which will happen and continue to happen from time to time give me the forward down to how Sunday worship will change if as we fervently pray.

Does diminish to think that in the autumn, you will be able to go back to covering services on location.

I most certainly we are already occasionally able to do indeed to service from Windsor that tomorrow referred to was an outside broadcasts, so that's already happening, but I think there will be a mix because there's a lot of good things to do the pandemic in terms of Sunday worship programming and particularly referring to Christian human experience and how Faith has helped people very difficult times and those of the sorts of things we really want to hang onto in The Strand going forward better.

It's an outside broadcast or it's more the feature-based phone.

Thanks to Sunday worship producer Philip Wilson and that said the feedback for this week next week will be talking to Nick Brian's the BBC's outgoing New York correspondent was just published the book called when America stop

Great which I think Reeves and part Like A Love Affair gone sour do let us know any questions and comments you would like us to put until then keep on keeping safe in perfect and Messi and if I can borrow my son's driving happy ever been called a which I've been called much much worse than you think there was a special between dogs and women get a child substitute.

I can say it on the radio tower expect the unexpected Woman's Hour listen on BBC sounds.