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New BBC Studios Boss At Last Where Are C…



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How much you give and there's no regular commitment just hit the link in the show description to support now hello welcome to the media podcast by Matt ticket on the day BBC Studios prices finally chosen spoiler it's the same as the old one but now it's a look at whites taking the BBC so long to sort over Europe 2 radio Industries been getting together.

Look at The Fortunes of broadcasters during the pandemic is confidence returning to the audio all that plus the rise Rise of substack has channel on the directed.

It's hard of hearing audiences and in the media quiz we see who's dropped onto the Casting Couch that's all coming up in this edition you focused and ready me today.

It's an all-star lineup.

We welcome back to the editor of newsweek international Alex Hudson

Since last year on the show you had something of an anniversary to commemorate 10 years since the Hackney riots.

Yes, I was out reporting.

I'm not allowed to save the BBC because it wasn't for the BBC it was just on my own back very clear legal definition that I was I was out reporting and head up in a bit of a Confrontation and my life and that being Saved by the Hackney heroine who shot the viral foam for a video recorder 20 minutes before she save me by not being pushed into a car and having to flee through a block of flats it was.

Fun in retrospect, you know interesting Jenner's and but terrifying at the time is that your most dramatic Media story of life and death where yet back of the show is Karen Robinson playing director that communications from Edelman in case I don't expect that you've been burning buildings recently quarantine to my home because my daughter has covered so that's our personal drama at the moment will parents isn't it in and out of school school issues, somebody else is having issues this week is wpp what's been going on in their accounts department in the US believe for failing to prevent bribery and happening across their global business and I am happy to say I do not work.

Wpp anymore and from my experience when I did work out wpp I can only say that I found this news disappointing but not shocking so wpp play Killer conglomerate lots and lots of operations, aren't they and they're up there all across the world so some of their subsidiaries have been greasing the wheels to get from fundamental is basically a Holding Company that consolidates together huge number of agencies than advertising creative PR agencies around the world and so brilliant an amazing people who work across the business and business is doing fantastic creative and strategic work across the business, but there is a real commercial drive that happens it gets pushed down from a parent level at wpp which you know I personally have always felt undermines a lot of the good work that is happening and then you know obviously that leads to results.

Less than ideal creatively and strategically but also perfectly some of the time unfortunately Maggie Brown when I should have taken over from Holly in the interim here and he said that you're since you're books come out.

That's it will run out of things to talk to you.

Is this what else is going on in your life, where have you been? What have you been doing post-release delayed virtually for a year and so I was getting very sort of upset about that, but in fact for me the whole Channel 4 privatisation debate started up all over again.

So loud so obviously but it's been in demand and I've been doing quite a few of these discussions via zoom or whatever.

University that trains are other people for jobs in TV production and another conference about Public Service Broadcasting so, I'm actually found myself quite in demand in these kind of specialist can people get quite a bit wrong about Channel 4 when I think they probably ought to know a bit more than they do but trying to be polite people and understanding that I'm a bit of a sort of you know that tick on on this subject, but it's been a good experience to be published in America history from Big Brother to The Great British Bake off all Big media companies lots of chopping and changing Channel 4 over people which brings it on to offer a story so after months of rumour and off-the-record briefings.

Even you had a BBC Studios the BBC production home and Alex this is taken what 13 months to sort out who's got it, and what's been the hold-up so the man who's got it or Tom FreeCell he's been there since we been in charge in September 2026 been over a year and the hold-up has been that who would want that job who would want lower paid than you are elsewhere who more scrutiny than you get elsewhere who would want their budgets and you get Elsewhere and how do you deal with a fat of licence fee is coming and the increasing scrutiny, so you'll have to find a particularly motivated candidate to be visa commercially minded person within the BBC so from what I've seen his done good work.

So he's already above targets of Revenue and is 1.2 billion revenues by next year so in in terms of what is looking at financially that's why it's looking a bit still he's he's not being paid as much as a Netflix executive of some.

Level so that's why it's taking so long.

Just come out of other people are other options and he seems a good chat.

So so actually you can have it after all well.

I mean it feels like it's not ideal any time you've been in an interim position for upwards of a year you'll have to get the suspicion that your bosses are looking for someone other than you.

So you know hopefully going to take his tenure in the post, but I think I like a really good point about it's a very challenging position.

I think the BBC is in a very challenging position right now as I think we might come on to talk about a little later with the political environment being really challenging for the for the business, so it may be that they were hoping for someone with a little bit more almost like political savvy to be able to navigate and add value into the interview see studio is that would help them navigate in that climate, but you know I wish him all the best.

That's the kind of ceoe.

Go because obviously if you if you end up money BBC Studios which is upon job big international operating our do more things in more countries, but you can I Tim Davey above you never really gets her own that space is that right is stretched stretched at the moment.

So I would have thought that you would have a lot of responsibility on your shoulders has spoken quite eloquently actually about the fact that he sometimes has to just go off and be quiet and they have time to and he's got his responsibilities as a very delicate time for the BBC I personally I'm not actually to remember we were coming into the centenary celebrations next year 2022 and I am sure that they will come out with some fireworks and I'm

Play against friend thinking that the BBC is going to be diminished in importance, but still are very important institution for this country and Tim is one of the good things about him.

Is that he has actually been at the BBC a very long time and it has as we've been talking about you know has had to do with the commercial side that he's also an extremely clever person who understands almost Every Corner I was save the BBC from Radio 2 to international can get the politics right.

I mean he's made a lot of quite sensible things you know he said his prevented the rollover just Roma the person who is coming in to head up news.

He's managed to sidestep quite a bit of the issues or countries that have been sort of potential.

You know elephant traps, am I think he's he's managing pretty well actually, but I I just thought Studios is is it since the person has been running it for a year and nothing terrible seems to have happened then.

That's the marketplace.

If it is the job isn't paying as much as you would be getting in the commercial sensor that that's also the marketplace and he's obviously decided to stay with a public the great public service broadcaster, and I suppose he does have a bit of an open door British nurses one of the most marketable things at the minute.

So you know between Britain and Sherlock and Downton Abbey and you know even Idris Elba write the most sellable things in the world at the moment if you think you know BBC just make my Doctor Who make more strictly Strictly Come sellable formats make more Top Gear and you know that'll be fine Emma raducanu.

Winning US Open is it?

The perfect example of just how sellable British content is at the moment actually buy Facebook one of the most key themes that I was watching all of it came out of it wasn't facts.

Why was he Studios opening up in in the UK it's because those who respect for art centres old tradition of storytelling for the kind of people that we have in Britain for writing stories and fiction that can be turned into script answer the general level of expertise that we have in-depth which has been built up for an offer in on time and it was most heartening.

I don't think that they were they were almost seen from the same script time simplifying it, but that is basically the theme that emerged from the top dogs of the of the streamers so I think that you're absolutely right the problem is really weird things like.

Is that the warmest dynamited the old tradition of costume drama which we come to love the British version and it's become obviously something else with the Frigate and so although it's very fashionable and it's available the questions for the BBC will be how does it continue to do if you like traditional costume drama or dramas, which still remain British and is in a marketplace with millions of millions of younger people are expecting something different from it.

Won't be Justina a prim Jane Austen kind of adaptation.

That's the Challenge for the beautiful and do it properly on a much slimmer budget than Netflix can afford as well.

Hopefully service broadcasters were in lots of discuss that really Daisy Europe this weekend.

Just gone so I'm

Lisbon for that it's the first time the conference has been back after 2-years of coronavirus related pausing that it was their third reschedule date about half a number of that normally that was a pretty good turnout about 800 people and obviously coronavirus came up as a topic a lot and I think for radio radio had a pretty good coronavirus and listening to buy poly broadcasters and commercial broadcasters.

Speak, I think there's a real Desire or a real understanding that they had sort of reconnected with their purpose the fact the listeners uses a trusted you saw some radio with skulls for awhile as a trusted news source that they alter their programming they change how things are broadcast a lot from people's homes in a post coronavirus.

It almost sounded like it's some special sauce which when competing against the new entrance been over the spotify's of this world or podcasts or or

People or Facebook with you know lot of fake news trouble at the moment then actually maybe it was one of radios core brand values that they need to re-discover and Alex I knew you had a look at some of the videos that they were streaming from their website and the atom Bowie popped up from the BBC talking about some research that they done so they're research all about that just how much you know radio and audio in general realise so much and that you go to work.

You have any a car you have it on the Tube or and trainer ever so they were interested in the end.

Just what happened during the pandemic explained the commuter coach to just vanish and I think the first two things to say just how they couldn't do the rajar figures, so they rely on going to people's homes which feels very old fashioned to me, but you know they go round and now it's night a chat to people in person.

So those figures haven't been around for the last 18 months.

They're just starting to come back now, but but what research they've done showed that the morning spike was significantly less sharp scythe.

People going to work but what the exciting thing was for families to us during the day more and more people listening to audio so in freak overdose spikes at lunch time and space 2020 working but now with more people working from home.

Are you going to get there people listening to music and headphones? I just need to radio on their headphones are podcast or whatever so they're actually quite excited about the fact that list the day has significantly increased coronavirus.

Get towards my personal audio habits have changed in very much along the lines of what Alex was describing and what their research affairs out which is this instead of the 2 hours of door-to-door comedian as a really concentrated said about Tubidy I'm finding opportunities to Listening across the piece and I should say that this kind of vitamins own.

Looking at changing behaviours and so forth and it all makes sense along with what we're saying but we're thinking about it's not just when people interact with content that they consumer content to different parts of the day.

They're looking for a different things out of their content so I think we should be thinking about what types of content better suit this new way of consuming or do you know where our kind of data seems to suggest that when people listen in the morning that morning commute is much more leaning type of thing it's a daily catch up.

It's what's happening.

Where as they listen times of the day it can be more subject matter felgains people who are interested in possibly having a deep.

Dive is a little bit less avenues and ketchup and I think it will be interesting to see if content producers weather Whitby podcast Radio starts 15 to contact the feels a little bit more spread across the day, so we'll get first sight of radar return on the

Gates of October and coming out of taps and people and there's been a lot of 8-weeks to methodology, which I think we're going to talk about quite soon.

I'm sure we'll pick up on on the podcast which I'm sure I will find fascinating as much as I try origin has raised over £300,000 for a mixture of equity crowdfunding and private investment she spoke to press Gazette this week, what was she saying so she was saying that they were very excited to allow the way she kind of put it was like I'm now in the community to support and back of business.

You know there.

Is it station which is designed to it's aim is to tell the stories of black British women which I think is an underserved emigra come in the media landscape and I kind of got the impression that she was almost saying ok here's your chance for this community to put its money.

Where mouth is really stand up and be counted.

I do think that you.

Black women you know in terms of the kind of overall minority ethnic demographic love women are not only underserved and immediate environment but also the pay gap at it for black women is the pickup for black men so there is money are there and there is a consumer audience that's worth the reaching out to even if you leave aside kind of diversity and inclusion which I think should be considered.

This is an audience.

That's that out of content that she's able to provide in I would hope to see more of this kind of thing Alex what she's doing is it isn't something massively different we've seen can I have the last 12-months people are really doubling down on Communities of Interest particularly newsletters subscription Media what's your take on on this are we going to retail in C minor subs tax you can subscribe to?

Search and it was with the podcast and now the media is publishing to newsletters and it's not a get rich scheme is not this magical Silver Bullet that sells me these problems you know I have my newsletter everything popular is wrong.

It's right now and Ollie when I set this up.

You know knowing what a full new media.

Hipster.

I was said it was a little bit retinol fashion.

It's not it was a head of the game and you know it take techniques that we now have half a million leaders.

It's we don't do that by it's not this the thing that is going to this magical thing it it requires a lot of work.

So all these substep things about people setting up and taking a thousands of Dollars very very quickly it's not the way it works if you get 1000 people willing to pay for your content then great wonderful you have a really sustainable business model if you're if you're if you're one person doing this thing but those those models are rare and it takes a very special Talent to be able to convince 2000 people to hand over their cash to you and so there is there is so many infinite amounts like so there is

Mainstream Sunday at newsweek, or you know pictures don't think that was anishas more effective is under-represented, but what there what there is there is are you can think of five things that if someone offered me of particular expertise on it.

I would happily pay £5 a month for and if everybody has five different things there is there is so many different things that could be done but most of those subjects and his little be set up and it won't be kept Weekly or they won't be very interesting although just won't be very good.

I mean she should have felt there wasn't room for the journalism that she wanted to make and so she said ballad to do that is the problem in The Likely to lose specialists or other people who can bring a new audiences to master if we don't look after them.

That's a data problem.

So the analytics to show what is and what isn't popular if you still go on pay to use which is not the answer no should know whatever was it but it it's still often.

Answer then you lose a lot of niche audiences because you don't you know if 10000 people read it read but stayed there for two minutes.

Is that worth more is that worth less than 100000 people been there for 30 eventually Analytics will show that the 10000 people were more valuable both in lifetime value an audience memory and all that sort of nerdy data stuff that I would never about do not let me if that doesn't understand if we don't get it if we don't keep employing people who can find really engaged if small loyal audiences, then we missing a trick and everyone will go to substack and find the 515 things they want to read about rather than just going to a new site and it's how you know that was when we'll be talking about 70 letters in a year will be appointments and habits and all of that dateable start coming Maggie you're a specialist to Alicia in media journalism Siri talks about you know you're stressed interesting Channel 4 any plans to start a substantially newsletter.

Do you think you could get a very high?

Premium audience to hear your thoughts new media, but I actually agree with Alex that the the analytics are really interesting as are the finances all the manager quite a specialist areas it is the case and he is right, but I can think of many areas in the media were the in-depth coverage is not what you would wish and it's all about really recognising the fact that diversity is is just expanding whether it's the kind of music you like or even kind of the let alone foreign policy and all of the heavy subjects as well, so that this is the World War II now and I'm watching favourite to be honest, but I do think.

You need in the mainstream Media is you do need very good specialist to be able to explain important stories in a way which the majority of the population if they choose to understand which is the other end of the splintering of Interest otherwise you don't really have a body functioning Society so we have to have the in-depth stuff will have the boring stuff to will be back with more meeting news.

No login required after this hello giovanna Fletcher here, and I am very excited to tell you about my brand new podcast kid by Walt Disney travel company called journey to the magic each week.

I'll be chatting all things Disney holidays with some of my celebrity pals.

They'll be sharing magical memories funny stories and family traditions from the holidays to Walt Disney World Disneyland Paris and Disney Cruise Line you're certainly smile there mate.

It'll to and get lots of ideas for your next Disney adventure subscribe now wherever you get your

I've been coming to Ally Pally since.

I was a dad used to bring me to watch the snooker but now I come up here to watch the sunrise before my seeing all the kids out in the park run remind me of my childhood and I can't wait to bring my own little one till we live and breathe London and expanding the ultra low emission zone means we'll be able to breathe it all in with less air pollution search ulez expansion to find out how the changes could affect live and breathe London Maggie Alex O'Connor still with me lets cover some more media news in brief Conservative Party Conference where is much Tubthumping about the role of the PC and of course that channel for consultation and she's she's got straight into her culture Media sport and digital job and

Surprised some of the TV sector with her views on on Channel 4 Maggie did they think they'd got away with it into my book because what actually is this that you have a turnover of Culture secretaries and they don't last very long and they propose things but they're not there say long enough to make sure that something happened.

I didn't have a think but because John whittingdale and Oliver dowden had been removed from that post.

So it would be plain sailing for Channel 4 I mean why they held a consultation they got the results on the 12th of September it was a very unsatisfactory kind of 3-month process over a summer holiday a decide outcome and involved in that was Andrew Griffith Conservative MP who had been the chief executive officer of the sky so they were all too.

Down this line of not allowing the status Quo to continue so I didn't expect her to back down but I do think that they've this is she's the 5th secretaries since 2015, so I kind of think he was bound to say that whether it will result in a big change.

I don't know but what I do.

Think is happening is that timer for is rolling out its regional and Nations policy really fast and that is making it very difficult for any party that trying to woo part of London is not just and it's also quite clear to but Channel 4 will still have an important role to play it seems to me in our creative economy, whatever happens to say that because she wants the result of sorts.

She said she's not there for the status Quo none of them off it.

They're going to dismantle.

Can I would have thought now you talked about Facebook but will it really look play well if you know I don't like that channel 4 keeps buying popular programming like the Great British Bake Off god the audience loved it very crude public interest terms play.

Are you going to annoy millions of people by messing up their up some of their favourite programs whether you whether you love them yourself example to the Paralympics came out just at the point when they were changing over culture secretary Channel 4 had a rather magnificent Paralympics this year will just pick up on that so did they paid a bit of a blinder leading up to the consultation on Emirates coverage on Paralympics on all those things relation to Regents but Karen the shoes.

They had a bit of trouble recently all their supplies red bee have

A massive fire which is basically knocked out of the subtitles on Channel 4 for over 3-weeks now people aren't happy are they know they are not and so they're still start getting subtitling and full accessibility on across a number of very popular Channel 4 shows and what we saw coming out this week was the host of the Last Leg Adam Hills you was calling them out on that specifically on his on his program which I thought was a very good intervention on his part because he's knows his audience and Voice trying to reach but also was extraordinary to have him on a live show effectively openly critiquing his employer it was it was a pretty bold move which I expect will have gone down very what is audience and I and and probably not so much for the tunnel for themselves, so really interesting stroppy presentation from him.

bubblebox, they do allowed criticism of Channel 4 programmes on it, so I mean that the real problem is actually the the fact that so much of the broadband contract have all been concentrated with red beef used to actually broadcast itself from its own Headquarters and I do think this is closing one of the vulnerable if you like of outsourcing as we've seen in other Industries

Yeah, I mean I agree.

I think it does expose that so it's availability than 13 but also it says where your priorities are because if accessibility were considered to be genuinely business-critical.

They would have solved but long before that I suspect sorry Alex Alex the travel press on this normally.

They seem pretty good and responding to these issues.

They've been a bit trapped.

I guess because they control getting get it fixed and getting subs back on there.

Yeah, but do you say sorry we messed up, but it's kind of our control.

There is no way of prn.

This well at all.

So you know the more they talk about it the more they realise that there is no way to apologise effectively for it and that they they could be not saying they are they could be heading out there still a small percentage of our audience are directly affected by this and that's not a good thing is it but like by keeping quiet about it still that's more minority of audiences who are going to be directly affected.

Sweet from Ofcom today, so they say we received around 500 complaints about channels on going outage will shortly communicate to it's audiences the clear messages.

It's taken to restore services to say the Channel 5 is now restored the services to its forward schedule is Eamonn back to recent On Demand programmes where they are lacking we working progress will continue to engage broadcasters to make sure the service is restored as a priority 3 million people that use subtitles are varying levels of hearing loss BBC basically had the Black Ops Channel 4 not so much Channel 5 less channels that even like I think one of the four music Channels Only basis.

Just gone back on her properly so it's clearly a list of things.

They're trying to get through to get the back on it audioboom is getting into the Originals business with the launch of audio boom Studios for sale look after hits right.

No such thing as a

Why do you think they getting more into content particularly in the UK and Europe I think it's just a natural expansion strategy as you say they have a good roster of content saved from others as any business as it grows.

I think wants to be more in control of its own fate.

Also give them a greater probability ultimately because they they can share where they go with it next turn up on a few it makes sense.

I do think this is a increasingly competitive space so I don't think it's necessarily a given that just because they put the resources behind that they can look and get so there are risks associated with it, but I always like to see people crazy new original content rather than just recently caving other content so you know good luck.

I hope they may do make a success of it as I say they've got as you say they've got pretty good I in the past 44 hits that they can discover so hopefully they can apply that to the rivers run commissioning.

Best success with original Siberian see that knowledge and understanding and apply to other markets this week.

It's entitled call SE3 analogue services have recently announced digital spin-offs.

I'm going to give you the Talents they've announced and you tell me what's been commission ok free rounds buzzing with your name if you know the answer so Alex will say Alex Karen will say Karen Maggie will say let's play casting call QVC number one so I'll give you the Talents tell me the media that's been voted number one export World presenter miquita, Oliver and journalist Grant Tucker Sunday Times saying video series thing and it's little monkey.

Antarctica doing some sort of like Talk TV thing yes Sunday Times culture magazine show for YouTube but no doubt will appear on Talk TV whatever talk.tv 1.6 number 2 star of MTV's catfish Julie is it a GMB spin-off YouTube YouTube special of the table with that one? Yes, that's right off tablespoon of the Good Morning Britain team which change to debate some of the most important issues affecting young people today and it's going to live on YouTube play Alex interesting couple of YouTube shows their yeah the pivot to video happened long time ago, but people seem to think there's still some dash in it.

I was bitching morning breakfast shows the BBC that appeared on YouTube only 11 years ago still isn't it? It's still seen as a bonus.

So you know that listen to a longer less well educated.

View across podcast let's not the idea that people better contact local people less good content it it's an interesting for iron to it, but compared to GMB main revenues are YouTubers not that unless they are not getting millions and millions of users every episode so interesting to see how financial it makes sense of them.

I did wonder if it links to the conversation.

We were having earlier, but people's changing listening habits and I think they're changing habits is probably also shifting in this postcode landscape.

So it might not be that breakfast telly is appointment viewing anymore and maybe you can soon that content over maybe that's the Play-Doh making here could be interesting finally voice-over artist Vicky blights Karen Karen yes, it's some sort of our campaign about older people teaching them how to use digital radio.

Yes is Lisa's campaign from the shredder, UK and it's aimed particularly over-60s understand how to get DAB and dab plus services digital divide that stronger with older audiences, are they got more time to actually understand what's going on occasion programme with your audience is all about making demystify so Congratulations to Karen u r r quiz winner for today might next to make you brown Karen Robinson Alex Hudson if you enjoyed this episode.

Why not bonus the price of a flat white from Soho house.

Just had to the media podcast.com followers to him new episodes when they drop on your podcast app of choice if you haven't got one of those just happened portfolio.com / the media podcast into a browser and it would drop you in.

An app my name is mate, and you can find my weekly newsletter about the audio industry and more at that you can top.com the producers of the media podcast from that hill and Pete Price it was everything audio and PPM perceive in a fortnight.

Hello Savannah Fletcher here, and I am very excited to tell you about my brand new podcast presented by Walt Disney travel company called journey to the magic each week.

I'll be chatting all things Disney holidays with some of my celebrity pals.

They'll be sharing magical memories funny stories and family traditions from the holidays to Walt Disney World Disneyland Paris and Disney Cruise Line you're certainly smile then a tickle to and get lots of ideas for your next Disney adventure subscribe now wherever you get your podcasts.


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