Read this: #147 - The Audio Adventures of Harry Meghan

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Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm only man for the future of broadcasting is Ofcom announces a new review of the TV landscape Snaps up Harry and Meghan we take a look at the former royal podcast strategy and another spend a year for the Swedish music streaming giant on the programme The Guardian report record donations BBC invest in the comedy scene and in the media quiz I insert my Christmas paraphernalia into the weeks media news on and join me today in our exclusive Media hub, my digitise Groucho of the sky is audio on.

Extraordinary at Matt himself, Mr Matt Deakin hello, Matt you've had no radios to analyse this year as your Christmas been ruined because that's how I imagine you send it then beautiful.

I see data conference my interview some radio station bosses and asking questions about Radar and did they miss it? It's it's like they all suffer from Munchausen syndrome in the face of all did and they really wanted it to be there every quarter.

I think it's just so used to it more than anything else.

I mean like I imagine you would I convert Simpsons gets little baseball flags, you know waiting for the season premiere.

That's how you are waiting for the next door to finally be unveiled.

We're gonna get some next year.

Do you think I think we're gonna get some in August I think we have that long to get some data.

I think they're gonna be into the market in Q2 which means you won't see it until August when I click on my viewfinder is this letter.

Media Rebecca Messina is back on the show hello Rebecca now you have the answer to the question we are all asking.

What are the best decorative chess sets for your home? I actually write that one myself.

I'll be honest for me.

It was all about the matroska Dulcet from Amazon only 4899 talking point are you can't afford not to buy it and we will make a small commission on that referral fees important at this time of year magazine publishing I guess you know it comes up to Christmas traditions.

You have to create twice as much content to get through the Christmas break and simultaneously plan January is that basically your experience at the moment the last week or so the last couple of days when I really felt like oh, it seems like there's a lot of time for Christmas but we're not actually working for almost all of it.

So yeah, I'm going to have a mega day off Facebook

Yeah, right ok and your packing stuff up for weeks and weeks to come in you know I write a column for print magazine and I've just written February it's really hard like we haven't had Christmas Day yet putting the last Christmas and work and January train stuff, but on the magazines on the print teams are working on March April May even now, so yeah, it's crazy.

They're already picking what we going to be loving this summer a Merry Christmas everyone on to the news and we end the year with a little look into the future of broadcasting as the culture minister John whittingdale cesnet could be placed under ofcom's jurisdiction one day this comes after recent announcement by Ofcom to review Public Service Broadcasting in the UK at something they call their small screen debate the report said new laws may be needed for Public Service Broadcasting to survive in the online world the public service remit could be extended to additional content makers.

Gsbs must create new partnerships to better compete at lots to unpick let's start with partnerships.

How do you read the rules for the BBC and Channel 4 PSP must create new ships to better compete in the crazy thing is we don't have much better partnerships of the regulator hasn't stopped things like kangaroo have been 10 years ago.

It's nice that the regulator say all you should work together it may be a lights for that.

I think things are moving fast.

I just got a new Chromecast that comes with Google TV basically Chromecast with with a remote control does that job of pulling all the stuff from BBC iTV Amazon and Netflix into one scrollable thing there's no EPG in it cos it's all on-demand content no rules around probably says content being you know top of the list or whatever you that's in.

That's the challenge of the way these devices are going and some government regulations around that if you think that's the

To ensure the public service content reaches people's important the dangers if your own Netflix aficionado and you just didn't really consume a lot of broadcast television you're not necessarily seeing what was the public service and should those services be mandated to show stuff whoever makes it seems to me there's like an intrinsic contradiction Rebecca in what the Ofcom report says cos it's celebrating Public Service Broadcasting 01710 adults love Public Service Broadcasting love to have British made stuff.

They love very news and then in the same report it kind of saying but Netflix is coming for your children which is it like if it's so popular then it will survive if it isn't then it needs to be regulated.

It's quite a clever idea in the Ofcom report the idea that rather than trying to force you know BBC to become more like Netflix we should do something before US Netflix to become well at the BBC

You know it's like yeah, of course we celebrate Public Service Broadcasting because it's an amazing service and it is important, but the same time like you know we celebrate vegetables.

They really help.

You know the better will be but like you don't always want them to know the meaning like you've got generations of people now let you know my generation and younger who are used to consume their content via stream, and when you are given the choice of literally everything you could want you're probably going to choose to you know go and re watch Parks and Recreation or something aren't you you know over watching you know Newsnight but that doesn't mean that is better and I do think there is something in the idea that maybe the the best solution is to place more constraints on Netflix I mean you are kind of artificially lino restrictions.

I don't technically need to be there but that might actually have to be the solution is not necessary very pretty but at the end of the day if you leave it open to the consumer market people probably just going to choose what's easier.

Comforting what kind of constrains I mean that if you said to Netflix right you need to produce a portion of your content needs to be about British regional news that is what we said, then.

I really would be a direct competitor for the BBC and that would be a problem.

They likely win in a lot of those and they have my budget early for you could argue then who cares whether they BBC win or lose if consumers get the right public service content then who cares whether you know Harry gration makes a big money transfer to Netflix then that's that's good news for Yorkshire I think there is an interesting bit about British content and public content being surfaced on those places so Netflix doesn't have to make north west tonight, but maybe they surface that to consumers.

I don't think I'll be a terrible thing and what about this business of the public service remit being extended to additional content makers, so not necessarily platforms but companies.

I wonder whether there's an argument for much much smaller providers that mean actually people like us.

I mean here.

We are actually having a public service conversation, but spoiler listeners isn't profitable I mean you know we could we say right.

We we need you to become top-slicing.

Didn't it? But we need some public service money independent production companies to make audio for commercial radio and community radio and that's really successful fishing shows for fun Kids we've had quite a few Indies work with us for the first time to produce great material that sits on our platform, but it's also von podcast so I think once you wants to brought one of the issues is historic Lee booking the volume to three and four were super essential and where everybody went now if you ever 55 that still the case but for large change the orientation the case anymore.

Originally the 90s and noughties introduce Rosa nepg so that could you ups be content must have dropped top of the EPG now and an EPG this world what you do, but if you strip away the child who's been important that the content becomes important.

So if you say Matt you need to make the all-new good morning Yorkshire and I asked her I can do that and I've done a deal with Ted Sandos to make all Yorkshire people see it when they log into Netflix that so that's a a similar replacement for what was mandated by the way to ring the 80s and 90s well except of course it would put public service television in the hands of a big American corporation and we met that is the argument really for the BBC and not for Netflix isn't it already so can you can we see to BBC obviously with iPlayer to a lesser degree ITV with husband Channel 4 with all for the all of them?

Removed from catch up to destination with mixed success but to be honest.

It's going to be to the to the wayside because of the new device that can be Freeview play as well as Apple TV and Google TV collating stuff and bringing stuff together.

There is a person in the mix now.

Tell us what we can see on the television actually Netflix are spending more money on British content anyway.

I'm leaving without being asked to they just collaborations with the stormzy's brand consultant amazing job Adam from the filmmaker writer sex education bisha.

K Ali voices basically Rebecca getting big vehicles on Netflix do you think they're playing catch up there or do you think they're ahead of their rivals?

Recent things you know like small axe on the BBC I think that's starting to go and you know in the direction that yeah activist been talking about forever now, which is you know not just casting actors from ethnic minorities in random roles not just colour blind casting back to be telling stories.

You know by black minority ethnic creators like about people from those Communities you know we've seen me has seen an increase in that and I think you know even seen it interesting things happening like the backlash over the famalam sketch dream of the Jamaican countdown lots of people got very angry on Twitter exploiting stereotypes of Jamaicans but it was made by blackbridge places and they were able then to have this conversation, but it wasn't you know pale male stale take a joke.

It was you know creatis and that community engaging and you know a real debate with other members the same community about what's acceptable the same thing happened with this.

About 6 years ago, but it's much less sexy example a right I suppose yes, it's a more sophistic is a new one conversation.

Isn't it between minorities making the shows and minorities claiming not being represented than when it's white people making me and I mean.

I'm sorry if it comes down to budget on Netflix just has so so much money to splash out, but it's relatively easy for them to you know to grab a headline by investing unitex million into this thing RX maybe into this country.

You know they can make those kind of pronouncements that the BBC couldn't really compete with Global the other thing is actually a financial model isn't there to say you know it's not a minority group.

It's available to everyone in that minority group.

All Around the World in some countries where you're not a minority.

Any goes into UK production companies but that is designed to be a program that doesn't look British it does look to British so you're not really sure what it's meant to be designed that way and the other crown of his Very British but that's designed again to be shit to ship everywhere reflecting British stories is the challenge and I need some of these save announced do but I think the challenges Netflix can get the headlines it doesn't actually could use that much and volume compared to UK pro casters who having to make the changes more programs for the main channels than the Netflix does Netflix put out there you know saying that they going to invest more money into telling stories from the expected, but when they mentioned socio-economic.

I thought that was interesting to especially as you're saying that you know they're a lot of their stories are designed to be relatively you know brand.

So they can you know be showing across all their different territories.

It would be interesting to see what social economic.

What is going to look like to them diversity.

Why's example of that global audience involved in Netflix snapping up Rowan Atkinson's next series as well.

I mean that's there after Mr Bean audience physical comedy series Man vs.

B I mean every digital platform in the world would want that so absolutely and I think I'm weird isn't it? You think Mr Bean's being such a success and I know that Rowan Atkinson is probably pretty cheesy about what he does but to come up with a kind of a version of it.

Would you let me know what it is yet, but kind of a version of it.

I imagine they got the cheque books out but I'm sure it'll monitise beautifully in Uno 100 markets in like 30 years time Mr Bean clips on the ITV series in the 90s are still massive on YouTube it's insane little bit podcasting now and less than a year since Michelle Obama's podcast.

If I have landed another big proposition Harry and Meghan will be delivered into your ears in The New Year in the form of the incredibly an interesting remains podcast archwell audio Rebecca what is the show going to be about people? It's you know it's been as corporate.

You know they might not be working royals officially anymore, but they certainly can't get involved anything.

That's a bit bit dirty or a bit edgy.

So it's going to be very uplifting content and I don't know unless they start sharing things about their personal lives.

I don't know how wide is a periods going to have in the long term but the style of it and then we only have a trailer to go on so far, but the style notably podcast e and not that corporate.

We can hear a click shree Teresa

I mean, I'm Harry and Meghan people and hearing their stories in a matter what the story they usually offering and understanding of her someone else is coming from and at the same time remind you in some way of a story about yourself and that's what this project is all about to bring forward different perspectives and voices that perhaps you haven't heard before and find our common ground different perspectives establishment and elitist and a member of either of them personally and I'm sure it'll be totally listenable.

It's the idea that they're telling stories that haven't been told as though there are hundreds of podcast is out there have been doing that for.

I think of you I kind of always thought that the more celebrities get involved in podcasting.

You know you Gemma Collins is everybody it does drive up listenership for podcasts can ultimately that's a good thing for everyone making it podcast inside carries.

All Ships so more people in the sex is good audio production company name rather than brand name, but maybe they'll be fixed later on it will be the most people who said to Spotify they had problems with royalties so maybe this is Direct position of gimlet.

I'm not going to say it's paying off but this is another do that at least uses some of the things that they bought because that style that informal so we just had in the trail he is 0090 Meghan Markle is a seasoned actress but even so it's a produce Prince Harry to sound like that.

I imagine must have taken actually quite a lot of effort and that's the kind of thing in a good that is a year.

That's all the people Livesey acquired companies and their positioning themselves that you have to basically use the Spotify app as your podcast app because it will combine shows you can get public from Morrisons feeds with shows are exclusive to the platform and this just like Joe Rogan will do that and you know they are playing a blinder.

Will it be a super successful show if it was them solving family problems that's something.

I need somebody why do you think it is no Rebecca that for I mean.

I'm using a short and calling I know technically they're not in the official practicing royal family but for royals.

Why do you think podcasting would appeal where it's hard to imagine a royal even excommunicated one doing?

Radio shower TV show LBC phone in which she is very very safe way for them to do things you know they make themselves as sound relatable podcast if I come in your friend in your ears, but also it's obviously going to be you know editor very carefully so it can be in a presented in this in the package.

They got in mind.

I'm another lie.

I mean I might listen if they drop a few you know hints about their private lives.

I mean on that does their willingness to allow such vetted Media organisations access into their Private Lives contradict with what they're doing in the High Court and associated newspapers are suing a picture agency for invading their privacy can they have it both ways yes, they need to make a living but they are making a living by selling access to themselves.

It's going to be entirely be on their own terms and that's a mixture of legal giving exclusives owned media and I've got a documentary thing with Netflix as well as I got this Spotify play yeah, I mean I think it's the back now that works or not.

We'll see I'm sure it will be absolutely fine for them.

I think they also know that they've got to buy being totally against the press which is pretty much what they are.

They need access to the road Media social media podcast and the Netflix tele2 to get their own voices heard.

They do in between mass of the Sun or the Daily Mail to communicate to the to the public and they've done that to the channels to to speak to her subjects directly I think you know we have seen recently a bit more of a celebrity push back against this idea that it is a trade-off.

I think you know decades we've accepted as part of a fact this idea that.

Famous you owe us a certain amount of your personal life it comes with the territory and we've just kind of let that be you know just the fact basically saying push bike and I think you know awareness and environmental health has contributed to it.

You know there are celebrities are saying why he says you know and I think having their own you know social media podcast platform has really boosted that movement towards know what I'll tell you what you can have do.

You know how they judge whether it's excess mean? What's the m cos? Anyway? They make money is by converting people into premium subscribers or selling until you to bed to have you that's that's so podcart if you're a Spotify subscriber and don't get ads on the music.

You will still get ads on the forecasts.

So there's an ad model there.

I'm looking forward to make.

Redoing squarespace and doordash ads play who do the reeds for them you know but that's that's the market for Spotify to hold your remember the music bit doesn't really make any money but all they need to do is shave a couple of percentage points off the royalties.

They pay all the volume that they pay the record companies to make the whole thing profitable so if I was them and I was saying hey 70% of the audio consumed on Spotify is music now when we come up to write negotiation.

We won't have another look at that so by being broader.

I think they let me have a few leavers.

They can pull the could actually make the operation much more profitable nothing podcast things apart lyrics to I wonder if there's something to be said for the fact that you're princeton's I'm not I was a premium subscribe.

It slaps I'm not anymore, but if I put on a playlist of music I don't really mind the ads and I don't mind if it's getting around at random cos it's my playlist but if I'm listening to a podcast if only gone to the next like I'm going to be happy if it skips 22 episode before you know there's a certain idea that you need to have control over that you know the order that you're listening to each episodes, which would probably push the people so she shouldn't affect your podcast listeners that should just be all just like normal like any other app, but this is a chat now.

Sorry are shows on Spotify Originals as well as the normal audio ads they can put video into those they now see more about you.

They can get a better Premium on those those commercial independent shows like this one.

They're only adding adds to their own shows at the moment because then if you make a podcast and you're listening to this and you're thinking I should be should I be telling people to listen on.

You might be fine.

I don't want I don't see any ties you as a surprise, but they might they building ad network for their own shows which I'm sure at some point be turned up to other people already have that with anchor which is there to the self-service thing that runs out from the network, but and some people might say you know what rather than be with a car stored access ba boom.

I would my Spotify selling my head's the other thing that will see from Spotify is your back in the day when playlist first arrived there were loads of indie playlists and they were promoted by Spotify nowadays.

It's maybe Spotify playlist to music industry partners that operated when we look at podcasts, they promote a lot of podcast at the moment sure that will drift a bit more to look at their original so they control the audience and what they see.

What is that what we saying earlier about your Netflix and flagging shows and access to that promotion.

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For more information had to rethink audio.com now and Rebecca are still with me and it's not comedy now because the BBC's head of comedy Shane Alan has launched a new comedy Association its press release says it's called purpose is to promote inclusion and represent screen with a commitment to engage and enable a new wave of comedic Talent a bit like what you were saying that famalam earlier basically now.

They'll be mindful of their you know the recent idea that there aren't enough right wing comedians which is it was months ago now isn't that it first we can be talking point but it's all been bubbling along under the surface so I imagine that this is going to involve some kind of half-hearted harebrained chase after some comedians that they can stick on panel shows.

What is a diversity of ethnic representation but also class background political views? I haven't seen it happened yet.

Probably get the thing is though maybe the maybe looking at it charitably maybe when next time there's a Labour government whenever that might be it might be easier.

It's just so that'd be a right wing government and to have right wing comedians especially on panel shows like I Got News For You that are very political.

I could be right wing and go on there and he didn't stag off the Tories maybe you wouldn't be considered.

You know certainly labourer satirised enough there last year in office.

Which is about supporting up-and-coming comedians of whatever political persuasion outside of the usual mechanic so one of the things she is saying it's basically he's not think we don't need to go anymore kind of saying stop just getting all your new comedians from Edinburgh Festival you need to look elsewhere.

You need to look at tiktok is what he said question mark with you need the BBC to support you.

I mean I think I think it's somewhere.

It's the other way round the BBC we lucky if social media performers one-a-day their presents linear networks, where is at the moment? They'll actually control their own networks and they monetize it directly the successful ones much better than a fee to be honest.

I got news for you and there's a question as well.

It's like the difference between format someone who can do incredible arius 22nd tiktok videos, what will they do on the BBC is for instance if you know they going to

What is get show a sitcom etc like it might not always fit and there's also the thing of I was talking to a friend the other day.

I sent him a video of someone being funny on Twitter and he said before Twitter how would we have got this and that's true.

You know this there are people who are excelling in this format that doesn't really exist on entre no broadcast Emma broadcast TV and even streaming platforms really because it's like you know short form comedy.

It's a case of how do you use those people that there's not necessarily even a place for them like an old-fashioned BBC2 Channel 4 sketch show why doesn't matter actually we would sit down and watch it half hour sketch show you don't like them.

That's basically a microcosm of the whole issue with traditional television is that?

Big helping a random things that you either like or don't like and you just have to sit through them and there's obviously now you know younger Generations saying why would I when I can just go and pick out the best few of those things you know that they've become so popular gifts so they've gone viral people cite them all the time but people don't sit down and think I'll stream and episode of the Mitchell and Webb so because most of it was crap like I mean, where is there is also that makes them Webb sketch where they say is this going to be the one that's not very funny.

If anyone that follows this I me know if you are the next match of the website for example.

I mean if actually if you are in this poor now divided minority of Wight Oxbridge can you can't get a break if you are still best off going to Edinburgh and doing a one-hour show on you if you're that kind of comic like if you want a Radio 4 show the Old memes.

I guess it if you have been coming comedian.

You need two things that you need money and you need platform / awareness and historically the best way to do that would be from BBC Two BBC Three or Channel 4 and the question now.

Is is is that the case? It's probably speedy route to do to do well, but if you good you probably had a Twitter YouTube TiK ToK break out already and you would write fully formed at Edinburgh is it isn't much of a thing they might go to Edinburgh to make some money and that's crazy.

There's people that make money, but it's reversed of it is that you don't go to Edinburgh to practice you have practiced online or on two platforms are on a paramount Comedy Central comedy spin-off thing and then you've and then maybe you've taken that up to Scotland so I just think he even say

You look to the internet.

I'm not sure whether Basingstoke people that bothered about what broadcast Ellie wants news now and the Guardian has announced.

It's getting over a quarter of a million new digital Kitchens and the current contributions over the last year an increase of 43% Rebecca I feel like at the moment.

I've just been so much going on this year and especially you know the conversations over fake news that I didn't have people to you know they want to hang their colours to the colours colours to the mast and covered of course you know people obviously invested in not just getting the latest updates but in getting the most accurate updates.

It's good news regarding it's not often that you hear the Guardian and a story.

Having you know positive financial break interesting to see print subscriptions are up to marginally.

I mean they've been declined for so long to look at it go is it a change or is it just sort of the bottle of of going up or down 119000 because that's the right subscriptions with the Guardian Rose Neill movie producer.

Just newsagents who deliver it a map of counted as this anyway newsagent for most of this year has had an effect and that there's a group of people have been very unfortunate with coronavirus and the work situation and had to change their lifestyles because of it.

There's also another group of people who have to work from home you have a much higher disposable income because they haven't been there going out or doing things and maybe some of that is gone on traditional and on and digital media.

It's something that we've noticed that immediate as well as that print subscriptions have been up significantly and I think that probably you know can't really confirm it, but that's probably covered in terms of people not wanting to be going out too much.

You know prefer to have the news brought to them like an old days, so that possibly has had an effect in that way in scriber two things this year that I wasn't you know because of kovid most recently Conde nast traveller.

Can you believe just because I thought you know what actually that's exactly what I want to read right now.

I want to look at pictures nice places that I could be wrong.

I wonder whether you know you think about the news of the last 12-months and he's a lot been going on Rebecca is not a lot going on is it is a lot that really is in the Guardian Jeremy Corbyn standing at a national election you had President Trump standing for re-election in the United States he had black lives matter you had a crisis over climate change.

Housing wasn't going to show when was it is traditionally the way in which middle-class white people try and find out what non middle-class non-white people are thinking so I definitely see that you know the black lives matter protest cetera probably driven interest you know in hearing those perspectives which the Guardian is already you know only compared to the rest of the mainstream Media but has recently had a bit more of a handle on on you know on Showcase in those few points will open the big Christmas present and discuss radio of mass consolidation across the commercial networks, but there are some new launches to discuss tell us the ones that are coming next year next year was called boom radio and then JACK fm.

Which has a station called Union Jack on national dish radio and some

Stations in Oxford a launching to spin offs dance they British music and it's not kind of Nigel Farage UKIP style radio.

It's just be happy to play songs like people is the people behind their probably the one of the larger less independence remaining on radio so this year / last year about our acquired celador radio they quiet UTV local radio stations Lincs FM group so much all of that into Greatest Hits radio so these national stations on National DAB over the last remaining independence so Union Jack sort of rock flavoured mix of genres.

Music Union rock Union Jack Rocky and Jack dance sorted do what they say on the tin but their description of those John was very very broad so dance is basically if you can tap your foot to and Rocky's.

It's got a guitar or you thought it might have had a guitar if that's all that sort of breath and give me the Challenge for for the Jack Brand is your the world programme radio station is looking good people involved, but basically no presenters right.

I know they have a breakfast show in Oxfordshire pendolino presenters.

They have kind of amusing interstitials written by comedy writers of comedy writers who write B maybe also bought lots of comedy clips from TV shows that go in between me and you get Sky News and information as well, so it's a different ways to do a station.

It's not quite a jukebox, but the big chance of them is this Cutting Through

The second station which one she is I think in February next year definitely in the first 3 months of next year was boom radio this is from Phil Riley and David Lloyd they've been long time they fill created heart and then ran heart and galaxies and then they realise LBC it sort of this first of LBC pretty much came from Phil and David David spin pretty much every main radio station over the last 4 years and both of them in their 60s now will definitely getting that way to sort of semi-retired, but I've always said and I've spoken to them the boys said look the big gap in commercial in your radio.

Is is over 60s and now Radio 2 result of moving away from the older audiences and so there is a gap so that the big question for them is there's definitely a gap in the market.

Is there a market in the gap and can people.

Play raise the revenue from a group of people have a lot of money to spend but the arguments always been there the group people that have already made their brand Choices That probably slightly old-fashioned and you're a 60-year old now is very different to a 60-year old 20 years ago.

Yeah, that's the thing isn't it a lot of the heritage brands that are targeted at that audience went design for boomers.

So you got your BBC local radio stations which removing younger anyway, but can't have quite a frosty image and you've got Saga you know which again if you're 55 now.

You're going to think of something that you know possibly even your grandparents went on Saga Holidays so what's what's the thing for you and what's interesting about? This is from what I understand.

You're intending to make programs that sound like contemporary radio for younger people still interested in the world around.

They're interested music yet.

What has been considered oldies radio was kind of stuck for a long time in the 60s 70s and I think it's only natural for my radio to obviously younger audience members and they were previously but it's also sense in which time has just moved on and the 90s is Aldi's out but I mean it's 30 years ago, so I mean it does mean this enormous trash of people who I think probably then they're not the Radio 4 audience.

You know that's traditionally been this idea of you know old people listening to Radio 4 but if you want use yeah, I do think there's a huge gap in the market of people in their 50s 60s 70s and they haven't released a line up yet, but I think that would be very interesting to see you.

It's Direction they go I know the feeling David of talk to the person that when they were announcing the launch about bringing in people who were you know presenting during that time period which I think is that's great.

Obviously it's a great idea.

Aspect but hopefully you know they'll remember that you know non-white people and women were invented in the 90s.

You know they were around in those days and hopefully that will be reflected because I think sometimes of the audience was thinking about a specific type of person but you know obviously men women black white Asian etc.

They are people in that age group as well and so hopefully it will just be a throwback to the 80s and 70s etc source of in this patch though.

I mean that is what they're doing with Paul Gambaccini and Simon Mayo doing this amount of that it's more traditional.

Can I order commercial radio audience which is their targeting is probably more likely 3555 3565 is probably going 60 plus their trick is to probably have a good chunk of all the songs of songs of this audience grew up with but to have a decent.

With new music on Modern songs that audience really like because you don't want to behavior 6270 definitely don't feel old and you don't want to be seen as being and getting that balance will be the the Challenge for them and if you're calling it boom.

It's very clever name but I mean in 20-years time you know you going to get a 60-year olds listening to them listen to a station called boom after boomers.

Will they they have a station the big popular station? It's kind of a hybrid of radio to Radio 4 is called P1 and P1 sort of in the early noughties had a big colour of DLT style kill off all the old DJs and Anna fresh and obviously must be effective the ratings but still popular station.

Today then launched nrk.

P1 plus and P 1 plus worth a the basically used to listen to P1 before they all told to get lost and a grey TV ad campaign.

Where is like the old DJs going to like slightly dustier Studios I believe that you remember from the 80s and 90s Hood prince of brought back and the station is a massive success Mrs and ok broadcasting always had a good amount of marketing behind it but it's when it got very popular very quickly because it was an audience that didn't have station for them and what kind of dealing with the least worst option and I think that's a question for you over 60s now is the station they listen to you at least worst option rather than something.

They really like in sheep and at the moment.

It's just a single brand that they're launching rather than a suite of stations like Union Jack now has become but I'm interesting that idea of the kind of family of stations thing because it seems me even if you don't.

The spinoffs if you're using a guess what we might now call a traditional DAB set rather than the smart speaker as you've been through the dial the fact that you have to go through three or four stations called Union help something that Brandon your hair doesn't it's like Virgin Radio with their children their anthems or lemon it just reminds you that Virgin Radio because it takes that little bit longer to go past it and they also think some of those stations are gateways to brand so when Absolute 80s launched yeah that had a lot of people who didn't listen to Absolute Radio warily sure what it was but he understood the word 80s and interested in that and that was like ok.

I'm an absolute listener and I think spinoffs nothing can do is they can stop you watching Channel to a competitor and try and keep you in the family and I think that's that can be quite powerful as well.

Well, we can keep you in our family for just a few minutes longer.

You'll be thrilled to know there is time for our legendary Media quiz this week is entitled can't see the wood for the Christmas trees.

I've taken three headlines from press Gazette this week and inserted my Christmas paraphernalia to distract from the real issues very much like Christmas day at my house.

You need to identify the story of obscure via my Chris words to school yourself a point you will say Rudolph here.

We go Sunday Christmas Mirror Sunday ivy people elf editor snow Paul wenceslas, Henderson coldsteps Mariah Carey down in restructure.

I think of that.

There's a story about Paul Anderson stepping down as editor it is yes and he's not been replaced Rebecca I know.

The mirror is supposed to be a 7-day operation these days, but it's a bit hard having the Sunday People without an editor isn't it generational make its generation of Destiny I don't understand.

Why there should be a whole second team of people working on the same newspaper one day a week in sides of the mirror around a Sunday People cover would anybody be there a number to potatoes bubble and squeak to Queen's Speech James Noel Edmonds Dyson root presents out of the UK brexiteer James Dyson got I got a Christmas bonus from the Daily Mail for labelling him very elegantly done.

Yes the Daily Mail £100000 to Sir James Dyson over misreporting other Rail

With his housekeeper and finally the tie-break wow.

It's the end of the year.

We have a tie break.

How exciting is this his headline number 3-ft mccrann Boxing Day crowned indigestion journalist of the Year stuffing for winter wirecard solstice investigation.

That's the end of the year from the genus of the year at the British journalism awards for his wirecard investigation which looked into German payments company wire card exposing a multi-billion fraud in the British journalism awards you see that I don't know if that indicates a flourishing market Rebecca or just a bit desperation on behalf of the individuals concerned to get notice before they said it was very interesting the story of the journalist of the year then goes something series covered trump etc, although that obviously did Chopin some of the other Awards Stuart Ramsay got London Heathrow with the title award, but it was his peace from the Italian hospital back in March 31st.

Matt you are the festive winner of the media podcast quiz.

How does it feel do I get a christmas bauble? You are our Christmas door and Merry Christmas everyone my things to Rebecca Messina and digging we will be back with our annual predictions special early in January in which year centre forecast for year and mediahaven bring to account from 2020.

You can get that episode as soon as it drops when you subscribe via any number of apps or at the media podcast.com where you can explore all the Ghosts of episodes past and donate on the air long enough to reach 150 glorious episodes Hill it was a rethink audio and PPM production and until next year.

Hello, I'm Jessie Ware from table Manners the podcast now here with my Mum hi Mum we have a special bonus episode of table manners.

Come you sponsored by Sainsbury's taste difference autumn edition Range and check it out.

We talked to the fantastic broadcaster an entrepreneur Laura Jackson all about how to fantastically listen now on your favourite podcast app.