Read this: #140 - Times Radio Goes On Air; Media Job Losses; Facebook Boycott

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Hello and welcome to the media podcast.

I'm only man on today show Britain has a new national radio station to x radio plus.

It's more media jobs are lost millions more dollars according to the podcast market and Facebook faces and boy card from a third of big brand of the season celebrate the Productions that have been made in Dagenham it's all to come in today's Media podcast magazine journalist and blogger Elizabeth Carr Ellis hello, Elizabeth I keep seeing you popping up on the news campaigning for menopause awareness.

What is it like being on the other side of an interview because you've done a lot of interviews in your time.

Yeah, it's horrible I hate it.

I love it because I'm getting the message across which is great, but he's jealous and A questions that time and meet me have to think we're not just telling you what sound bite to say so that it fits into 10 seconds.

Lot they have channel 5 news.

We literally got stuffed into a SEAT told you will live Saturday for 5-minutes and then got told to get out.

So yeah, there's no pre warning.

There's no nothing.

It's just purely on the hope so I'm talking about that later on the show also creative director of folder medium at his back hello Matt how are the British podcast Awards are happening happening this weekend and my happening.

Can you tell us more yes, oh Saturday night 7:30 p.m.

By Clara amfo and Rhianna Dhillon so we have been rehearsing that for last couple of days.

We're going all in on the live stream is going to be relatively adventurous in the present live and we going to go to winners door steps to give them the trophies so we have been getting ready for that.

What could possibly go wrong with trying to feed live video into her a livestream will give it back frisson of excitement British podcast Awards.com if you want to see all fall apart 7:30 people whose background is podcasting doing a live video stream.

Not least the evershine retiring editor of newsweek international Alex Hudson is back.

Hello Alex hello.

What's the latest on move for kids basically? That is what the government is alleging so the House of Lords of just released a report about how is essentially gambling for kids and to come up with a good reason why no one's regulating so the fact that you know drummond-murray machines at the arcades that use definitely all parents have ever used over and also regulated by the gambling Commission in the way that Luke box of expensive the £5 of time and there's examples of people spending £600 on it in a month.

They are not regulated an example of a particularly high Alchemist possibly of escapes the biggest ones are in fortnite or in and then fee for the FIFA football game has changed it's called mechanics.

Delete boxes anymore, but you can easily spend 2030 £40 and there and your chances of getting a good player or a great kit are less than 1% you working kids medium.

I am really interested when a sort of mainstream Media brand like Adam Thomas and friends for example your then go onto the game version that you get my app store.

I've done this with my for you and you realise that what appears to be a free game with a few optional extras is infectious a giant and and within 5 minutes if you're very excitable four-year-old.

Yeah, I think the complexities are licensed brands.

So people who like to see things to them.

They got the game rights to make stuff and are they in Thailand with that brands used and does the brand understand the modern options that sit around it and also I think if beef is a good example games that perhaps.

Acknowledge the fact that lots of children play them and they all know where we've got to be over 13 to play we got to be evening whatever the rules might be knowing full well that actually it's not suitable for young well boxes here.

I've got a full running order on it all three to listen to so let's get going it is not a good week to work in journalism or should I say is if you still have a job because as well as publishers reach letting go of 500 staff.

We've learnt that 450.

The BBC's regional journalists also face redundancy Elizabeth your magazine journalist has been pretty precarious for the last 20-years ago.

Does this feel different to you? I started off in the regions, so that regional prices being hit is really really worrying.

I mean regional price is a lot of way that working class kids like me could get into journalism, so it's lots of jobs are going which is.

We going from say then, where's the footstep going? It's already difficult enough because every job now ask for you to being London really I go round to my old Newcastle Chronicle I go to the officers and they're not there anymore there in a tiny little office now compared to ever used to be same as when I was at The Scotsman then on a tiny little office so the original is has been here over the last few years is growing and growing and this time it does feel as if this is the end of Faith it's going down whatever happens now is just it's the middle of the end if you like very much towards the middle of the end of the end, because they have just been mated so much we've had so many centralised hubs and they're talking now about centralising more which means that those regional news stories in a where you would literally get some.

To the front office to complain if you got something wrong, it's not there anymore and I think that was have a huge impact on the industry because you're not going to have that accountability.

That's right on your doorstep anymore.

You're 7 something for example and it in Newcastle and you're working from a centralised helping Yorkshire which I've heard of happening.

You're not going to know the name places properly you not want another region and you're not going to be accountable to your readers is much.

It's very difficult to imagine what else they could have done though Alex I mean if you look at reach for example is formally trinity mirror this company revenue for the second quarter of this year is down 27 and a half percent year-on-year print down nearly 30% and if you had to make a case for a more streamlined Newsroom if you were one of the better now, what would you be saying to your stuff? Reach is a really interesting one so the meetings about those redundancies.

No second happened started happening today.

So just before we began.

Podcast recording I was speaking to some people very familiar with the matter about what's going on with the Daily Star and the Dara papers now with nine reporters on national newspapers with 9 Rupee and some of those reports of the filing 20 stories of shift and that's baffling and confusing and it and I think there's a problem with the model about how you need an an infinite number of audience members play the advertising colours that you can make ends meet but if you're going to run a national newspaper with 9 reporters left on it.

It's a national newspaper.

It's still got a significant circle is just further evidence make people pay for journalism.

How can we move people to keep an appointment with her with a with a publisher? How can we get people to pay for the story that if 10000 people in Newcastle would pay for that German every month that survives not possible if it if you can say it and executive level is very hard to tell journalist those 9 journalists, but those cuts are necessary in May going to have to work even harder.

Isn't it? That's my point is.

I don't even pretend to know how you can have this conversations because advertising is falling through the floor because of covid-19 but if all of the publishers Runner very healthy began the cuts wouldn't be as severe as they have been and you should have you see this of the group editor-in-chief Lord MP who rumour has it his announcement was even worse and perhaps it might have been in there zoom meetings that started today.

I don't think it according to those people have spoken to you who were in those meetings.

It was not handle the best.

There is no easy way to do this.

There is no good.

There is a good thing coming out of the covid-19 crisis incredible journalism around this thing itself, but it's it's how you handle it and it's how you build a young thermostat without draining the sun that stopped because of this even fewer ways into German and then there were three months ago.

Isn't it with what's happening in the BBC regions as well? I mean the last edition of the show the panel were discussing the possibility of inside out would be scrapped.

It has been now and these cuts are affecting local radio which is one of the Stepping Stones isn't it for me tell him to come through not to mention diverse tell him if we also talked to her a lot.

How are you supposed to get your foot inside out in effect reinvented a program with Les Editions maybe less episodes throughout the year.

I'm on the local radio side it would have a look at it basically works out of 4 to 5 people a site and you like radio and the the talk about sort of any double head is going and extending shows suggest.

It's probably half of those people are actually Radio presenters who probably has been surprised that the management that can have more senior management level imaginators haven't been reduced.

Sync my huntswood be actually in the other sort of voluntary redundancies that happening with the BBC that probably number of those will go at that point but it still beeps local radio is relatively well supported and staff wise now because everybody doesn't like anything contracting but I think definitely compared to Marshall competitors something that is relatively well supported free shows in daytime everyday or hosted by one person so I mean you know the connection with the audience really is depleted by this.

They will notice in a way.

They wouldn't notice structure.

Yes, and I think I think they know the roussinos.

I have to save a lot of money and a lot of nice things and things that the good across.

All aspects the BBC going to have to go and presented on local radio and I get paid because I'm covered presenting whatever the guy who does the usual gets paid and that's it from at the most.

You're talking 250 quid for a show it's typically like £120 120 quid 2% of 3 hours.

So they're not saving much money by doing really easy cross 40 stations that it's only those numbers of times for tea, so it does it does add up, but yeah, this is this is just the beginning of you large elements of the BBC that are going to have to relieved talked about all the line on the podcast but in a knocking out 252 750 million of a budget for thing that's 4 billion that's going to make big cuts.

Yeah, that's that's that's the Big Show's going elements of networks going you know to be honest and you could argue that the car radio got off relatively lightly.

In this round for the scale of it, they could have made senses together had multiple stations coming from one place sharing programming all sorts of things which was potentially but that hasn't happened to me Elizabeth once you taken this decision ok.

We need to save money so we're going to reduce our schedule if you go onto the little mini websites now for the BBC local radio stations universalised just called the mid-morning show let's it's gonna basic fundamental misunderstanding of how listen is engaged with the presenters that they which I mean.

I'm shocked that the BBC is doing I'm sure there's a reason I'm sure they're revamp it in a few months or whatever but it looks I think and any it's as if the listeners over 70 because that's what we talking about the case is just don't matter to the matter to them even though the demographic for the BBC

I think people are becoming used to study though.

I was thinking to the day watching a news report where the zoom failing and everybody just accept that now so I think she is almost there again.

It's what people expect so if you don't have your name on the program then people are ok with that now as long as it's somebody there because we just accept second best with Elizabeth we discovered this week as well.

We will move on to some happy and using the moment.

I will be starting in August because there was some hope of a reprieve for the over 75s perhaps you surprised.

They are very much proceeding with that because because I said huge winner for which of our government is in so happy because they're going to be losing a lot of the over 75s for doing it TV my mum is 90kg is her lifeline and she's very fortunate.

Can afford to pay but there's a lot of people who won't be able to afford to pay it and it'll just give up going for it or just had to call scrap the licence.

They won't pay and they'll continue watching telly and prosecute for 95 year olds.

It's difficult as I was saying something's have to be cut or the BBC has to work out a way to make more money the BBC looks the mall commercial things that looks towards more branded content across BBC World either try to make more money from the British audiences either that will that be britbox or another subscription service or back on BBC Three if it wants the biggest stir for doing the least amount of damage can't BBC Radio 3 see what happens the entire Lose It lose its head everyone is Up In Arms about BBC says it can't support anymore, but when you're looking at radio stations cost polistena.

That is the highest customers from across across any radio BBC radio stations.

And it hits a market the BBC already has gone so I think if a 95 year old isn't pay my TV licence not gonna be banged up you're right, but something has to give her the BBC content enough people want to justify the licence fee.

Don't worry.

I've got a bag that make the environment greener cleaner and more sustainable discover.com my mum and we have a special bonus episode of table manners coming to you sponsored by Sainsbury's taste difference autumn edition range go and check it out with all the fantastic broadcaster an entrepreneur Laura Jackson all about how to host fantastically.

Listen now on your favourite podcast app radio station national one that you can get for free.

That's been launched in the last fortnight.

That is x radio of course mate.

How's it sounding to you pretty good does a lot of discussion about it being in our commercial radio for which I don't think it was ever really the case listening to it.

It's a bit like the sort of 5 live from kind of 15 years ago.

I think actually there's a quite a nice things news your news UK talkSPORT talkSPORT to talk radio Virgin Radio now X radio x radio talkSPORT what's VO2 options in the biggest problems 5live houses the news people hate the sport and sport people hate the news so you know News UK now have more structured options.

I did all of its pretty solid it definitely started very well.

They clearly spend some money on it presenter too good.

It's a bit middle class as is the brand yeah, that's not a big surprise there and I think Matt Chorley show times political reporter.

Previously is good is some kind of feature is doing things slightly differently.

I think that's probably the most stand out at the moment, but it's all pretty good the fact that you end up in ever to be making comparisons with BBC services though.

I wonder if that was always going with this idea because the times as a brand I mean if I buy a print newspaper.

It's the one I buy but I couldn't really tell you what they stand for apart from them and they are slightly right of Centre and they've been around for ages.

I mean basically the audio version would be the BBC wouldn't that's the problem that is the problem.

X radio is desperately trying to outdo Radio 4 and at the moment.

I just think it's not got a sorry mate.

I find it really dull and boring and I found it slow bit like the times when there's nothing really interesting in the magazine.

It's you know you flip through the pages and you know it's very working but you'd rather pick up the sun.

Well.

I must I quite like listen to John Cena in the evening.

I do think he was under used at five live so it's nice to him hosting a drive show but I wonder if Elizabeth Alex has put a finger on something and actually it's a middle class is designed to appeal to people that we get to guest on the media podcast does that mean it's going to have cut through with the general public.

I think there was a bit of a person from BuzzFeed earlier in the year that kind of time Sunday x I'll look into reinvent their brand a little bit more like the New York Times which is such a become.

More UCL Masters of funkify a little bit and make it slightly more call the daily the podcast it reemerges use of millennials operation or leased is a bit more tweet that way than the paper would have been 30 years before and I could totally see Times and Sunday Times thinking that's not a bad place to be moved into more subscription model suite of products radio station podcast all those dates, but I don't think what they doing has that sort of the youthia.

Feel especially when you've got people like this more Giles Coren end of things or a Amber Rudd and daughter.

I think a little is a little unnecessary not particularly attractive so young audience but I can see why it would appeal to you x readers mix up with the radio station in Malawi

Just a really small small tiny little thing which means if you ask us not giving you got the wrong radio station and it's just something that mean the rest of the National press can have a little bit of a laugh but I I think radio is an interesting idea because actually you know you can't charge for radio yet the whole point of it as it's not been trying to reach 6.77 million subscribers towards that and that was saying as sweet of things that they offer and so if this works is it is it unreasonable to expect other other publishers following this model and you know everyone says your radio is dead all the sort of things isn't bad but can it drives loyalty in a way that means that people subscribe to a publisher for it? I don't know it's a short answer to that one, but what other publisher could actually afford to post-holder tell him to the BBC 2 radio station in Britain I think you're up against I think if you look at the Daily Mail group.

I think my sort of haven't passed away with that thing.

Anyone in real life you actually business to it, but it does exist yes ever subscription podcasts podcast behind their kind of paywall member club thing and newspapers have will be very good at putting money into things they think are important for their brand or actually for reaching politicians or or that might be no global relationship with LBC got a lot of time and effort in that is partly a public affairs play as well as an audience driving thing and I'm sure they benefited from from that existing your the Guardian do a sweet forecast already.

There was always been rumblings about you.

Do they convert something to a radio station you can totally see that Bloomberg the TV channel have radio operations ft economists use my podcast of The Economist so they're all the rolling it a better place to do it the top with any radio station and establishing any radio station is you have to stop.

Listening to something to add this one to your list, so that stuff yeah that stuff you giving up the Today programme or Giving Up Chris Evans or whatever it is difficult and just because it's on does mean people listening about that is generally in the data and glasses these days you forget that if you're using DAB and you've got a little spin wheel and you're a radio for a 5 live listen.

It's a bloody long way down 2tu.

No, it's ok sweet talk radio on Virgin and also for times radio all the wireless stations a long way away from the bees and Alfie LBC is in the middle well, so you've got the funkees before you get there very good to I was suggested course presets doing sister everybody you can give her and that way but that's because this is a situation where it is entirely a x cock up in the air.

They have a self-install the skill for Alexa which most people got not everyone got it and that's because Amazon and Google is with Google home.

Do not care about radio particularly without a lot of it to tune in they were on tune into it should have worked but TuneIn on Google's x / x built into its system shows you when you go on when you go to platforms for the radio industry.

Don't own these of the problems you get if Amazon or Alexa or Google home want to change something later on that could not be good for you.

They can do that and I say back to establish a radio station that smart speaker is great, but you need to know what you're asking for with a dial.

Obviously you've got Discovery there, so the more radio sort of goes IP the less than difficult it is to establish continue playing with my homepod earlier and you need to.

To play the media podcast with Olly Murs if you ask for the media podcast you get an old edition of the BBC media show Elizabeth how do you write the Today programme is that any better than x radio? I'm asking because there's a new editor there a when a Griffiths and do you think she'll find the current head of the Saracens a tough act to follow or not? I give up with the Saracens Today programme with you months ago.

I listen to world service in the morning now.

It doesn't make me so runty Today programme so what triggers you Elizabeth Today programme weather today programme was a very I hate all these all the BBC is so brexit supporting, but it just farted if it was just seven brexit and leaving the EU big one that got me was when John Humphrys said you couldn't do breakfast £400 these days and that was it I just went.

I know yeah, but the rest are all little that nice middle-class very quick idea and if I want to hear people shouting in the morning then.

I'll go onto yes, Morgan and do that.

I don't really want to do my headphones, but I think she'll be good.

I mean I do like p.m.

And I do like broadcasting house and I think should be very very good.

I think it might be more and it might make you change and I don't think I like going to be really too bothered about the conversation from x radio, but one of the things that is different about what time radio is doing is there letting the interviews run long is a notable point of difference isn't it? Especially with no ads and you do their notice when you flick back to Radio 4 Especially For Today programme that you get unless it's the you get 4 minutes with each guest and you don't really learn as much as you could you learn when you start working there that there is a very such as a program and you cannot change that if you.

Stephen tinker with it for a few minutes you get complaints and lots of the sort of one angry person you get a lot of complaints and so when I was working out here when I was a senior producer on the stairs when I was working.

She's bloody great frankly and she went off into the Newsround she's doing piano broadcasting house now.

She's a brilliant unless she thinks incredibly intelligently she understands how to edit incredibly well and he has Today programme at her heart and she's been being around in and around it for over a decade and it's super excited for her and super excited so programme where it goes next talking about BBC bosses finally, where's the newly crowned head of BBC 6 music now Samantha maloy.

What can you tell us about her so Samantha my one for quite a long time was Chris Moyles is producing there for about 9-years 6 Music at something else production company so it's definitely been around the BBC and the little bit in and out of it.

I think people were.

Surprised when the current sort of boss of six music up to left last week, but obviously this was about to be announced to maybe not big surprise.

I think means that those BBC networks have a mixture of new and old Talent so I lived at Radio One has been doing that position for quite a while.

He was Number 2 under Ben Cooper Radio 2 a similar thing where I can get PTS cos it's taking that the step up in network something worked in around the 8th floor who's got out to run to the prison radio under a sort of job swap take basis has come back into on the Asian Network so there's a bit of a mixer and all those networks now ok.

We've talked about radio for long enough and we've done print with done gaming so let's talk about social media now and the growing trend.

International brands to suspend advertising on Facebook Elizabeth the 3rd of the Worlds brands social media spend this month it's got to be with us election hasn't it took his to it? Yeah, they're going to you have big brands like Unilever who are going to stop spending on Facebook and during the US presidential election so until November because they said there's just too much hate too much right-wing racism going on and that Facebook doing enough to come down on them Facebook actually had a meeting with some of these stop hate for profit groups and Facebook basically just seemed to say we're not going to change by the sounds of it the groups were very disappointed and they couldn't see anything changing so they're still encouraging big brands to boycott advertising on Facebook they've been joined by some big names apparent.

Duchess of Sussex are also back in the campaign is quite a bit but actually three quarters of Facebook's money is made to small and medium-sized companies and I get an automatic on afford to stop talking people on Facebook now.

That's not all business model.

I think that's in sync with Facebook is so well diversified in the countless knows how many millions of different businesses use the advertising functions so if 1 drops out an infinite number of others will pop up the big business isn't as integral to say TV advertising for example TV that big businesses Facebook still can but what does Facebook do about it noble advertisers to the big companies suddenly cry profit margins have gone down or revenues have gone down and come back or after this.

They realise that Facebook isn't a power that it once was an actually they look good.

If I can also when it with Facebook Facebook owns the internet already Facebook owns WhatsApp owns Instagram and all of the different things before Facebook what do Facebook do they start limiting for anything this stuff is obviously way of the line like kill x destroy Wykeham it some illegal act and that stuff Facebook argues there already taking down but when something is really insensitive or disagreeable in Adele saying I will argue with you and I will disagree vehemently with what you were saying but I will stand up for your right to say it where does FB stand on that a lot of people directly people who like David Icke and breitbart to see my add ice cream.

You know it you can actually specifically asked for those people.

That's the genius of it, but it's problematic isn't it is also different things happen in different countries has been seen on.

Daily top 10s of the most interacted with content and it's all kind of daily caller Fox News sort of super right way and then Staines been publishing the UK equivalent which from the couple of days ago was number one ladbible NHS Ibiza holiday woof woof some more ladbible the garden BBC News and maybe the in America that much better using the platforms for their evil.

Am so we haven't really cotton onto it yet in the UK I think a lot of the the advert it's coming off Facebook I'm not a lot of CFO breathing a sigh of relief at the moment going while we can car ad budgets and see my way good guys.

That's useful.

Isn't it? So will I don't know it's difficult I think it has forced Facebook to make some decisions that they didn't look like they're gonna be making six months ago, so has been some movement on face.

Internal policies for your interview today about labelling content which they have they have not done in argued strongly against doing so there's something which is even more comfortable than they normally work.

I wonder if whether or not it's a long-term thing as this might simply depend on who wins the presidential election.

I mean if it's fighting then you know clearly these people have been asking for a boycott will feel to next mission accomplished let's go back to what you were doing before if it's drum.

They're going to Double Down on there something.

I don't think so I agree with me.

I think it it's very short-term way to look good and could any advertising budget while pulled into round think Facebook is too big into powerful now everybody has it around the world and people are gonna want to advertise on it and if they don't have Facebook can't really going to be bothered because they're going to be plenty more people who will still use it.

in a way to get to a certain demographic Facebook is there social media and Facebook can argue that they're not publishing when you have the little dishes Britain First for example of a very good at putting out tweet about better and sleeping on the streets which gets paid by my family for example these things that are being targeted by the advertisers as hate, but they are very much in a helpful way, so it's a very hard line for them to cross and I think come December it'll be business as usual for the Facebook is actually write a right-wing government in America is much better for them than the left wing government because there's been a lot of discussion about the Democrats and what they would like to implement on to those social networks and particularly that the big prize being to try and split up Instagram what's

Facebook hence, why they are busy trying to integrate new so tightly that they can ever be a world ok.

Let me know what you think facebook.com / Alex Martin Elizabeth I'll still with me and there has been a lot of business in the podcast world this summer at the latest is news of Spotify deal with omnicom at what is behind 20 million deal building their own add engine network for podcasting Spotify have a very successful add engine inserts ads into your music streams if you're a Spotify user and so it's a version of that in other places and I think if we look at at Spotify recent netting of

Cast stars and to make an exclusive to the platform, what's interesting is whilst a US advertising might not changing my staying house for this broadcasters suddenly options around the world to do things so by creating relationships with large media owners Media agencies is probably a good thing if you're trying to build out a new advertising products money.

That's in there instead of cash for ADS live also talked about your research initiatives Spotify clearly want to position themselves as the main branch to go to the large-scale advise on podcasts the network the networks around the world you look at the A-Class and the audio booms two networks at Dax no, it's in America to represent lots of a selection of podcasts by having access to two big stars that can be crushed motocross all of the Spotify platform not just in app.

Open Podcast ads a definitely give them something about all these people.

What does it mean for me? I mean I've got independently distributed podcast some of them are some of the rondex ready getting injections of advertising like you may have just heard if you're listening to this UK right now, so what happens if that's distributed on Spotify can we get that do you think of the Spotify catalogue being a combination of third-party shows like this one and then shows there are exclusive to them or owned by them or the companies that they've bought you can in the same as you might use a class for your ad insertion across your platforms and your listeners and people have to go to Spotify to to reach their shows now the Challenge For All platforms is a can they balance the third party content and their own content so you may not appearing playlists or

New promo as much if suddenly there's a ad network associated with some other shows were they make more money out so yeah small platform products interesting for you users which you know isn't it shows your mate injecting AIDS into third party.

So yeah, I don't think so, I think they will stop offering opportunities for podcast to move 22yr altered at the moment.

I've got ankle which is there to the self-publishing platform which has had seen it and I can see that being a rooted people want to be hosted in x Spotify directly podcast series do they think Spotify will do a better job of making the money than some other people in the market podcast listening skipped over to Spotify point is any of this spend worked on you.

I mean I bought gimlet anchor podcast the ringer or are you still you no listen to Apple podcasts podcast?

Doing the same thing having original content Waldorf content or do you think they're approach of basically or anyone can make a podcast? It's still the right ones 13 years later still of the anyone can make a podcast find I hate the trend for every celebrity now to have a podcast if you look at the top 10.

It's celebrity filled and so it's just the same old same old I much prefer the old method where anybody could get into the garden shed make a podcast and it would reach out and touch somebody to be very hippie dippie about it.

I like the idea of being a bit more pirate radio now.

It's a big swissbit Sleek and it doesn't fill you up as much as the older ones does it have found it don't make you think is much.

They just same old same old one of those very old names in podcast Alex stitcher who own Airwolf for example if you have been making Comedy podcast for over a decade they are now.

Required by siriusxm satellite radio jam, what do you make that? I think it makes perfect sense area so it's a 300 million deal with going to the Wall Street Journal and that would be a huge acquisition bid for serious.

They don't have a pronounced sort of podcast presents and if you're looking for a sort of starter kit then you need to go into someone who's already got the audience.

You got all of the infrastructure setup and Sophie and podcast as we talked about on This podcast many times before is becoming is having it's absolute growth spurt and the more money they spent at the moment the Spotify spending and Syria suspending an apple and Amazon echo and the more likely it is to stick so if there is wasn't doing this now.

They have a rest and Spencer in the $1000000 and it is not to spend any money on the same, so you know that they've got a lot of Big Show's nothing.

They just porting over some established shows it seems like a very sensible thing to do for now.

Is a ridiculous amount of money but not a ridiculous amount of money Elizabeth when big brands get involved in podcast sensibilities.

I'm thinking of the story this week around No Country for young women the BBC podcast tell us what happened there, No Country for young women and they put up a tweet on BBC sounds where the host and Dr Charlotte Riley and Amelia dimoldenberg.

How not to be a Karen Hauer Karen is a white middle-aged woman.

Who's there now having racist views, but basically a carer now is just anybody who's white and middle-aged and the advice they were given with it break things as go out and read a book or basically.

Just get out of the way.

What time they said basically leave now that might sound great advice, but I have to say when I was there and I wasn't reading books about racism because I was going out and March against apartheid so the whole thing just stank of complete ages and with young people who consider the older generation not to have any idea about what's going on in the Alex you used to work in social content for the BBC and this clip that went viral and attracted criticism along the lines that Elizabeth just personally wasn't even from the podcast advertising was it I mean that's an interesting decision.

What do you think is going on behind the scenes thanks, but it is a debate this happening to the BBC has to reflect it and if you want to create a splash on social media.

We talk about you know the algorithm favours of the rising views right now.

That's a polarizing view.

But it's the idea of a carrot is newsworthy the average BBC audience member is only just discovering what a Karen the modern definition of a Karen has become so it is a news topic.

Just whether or not they approached in the right way, is it is up for debate? I think it's an interesting conversation.

It's not because I mean that we were discussing last episode map with regard to question time which has also been slated for taking clicked out of context but at least those clips were part of the Debate I mean should the BBC be making market designed to provoke people 34 year olds who's the podcast targeted at and ask them what they have you have the clip was it might be different how different demographics field when I watch the I thought it reflected if you look on the website imgur or something like that.

It was in line with.

Days days views and thoughts and you're the BBC are hard-working incredibly hard and focus on trying to reach younger or could I understand why that got put out to to to reach those to do that job? Yeah, I can was it the right thing to do it.

That's up for discussion is the problem Elizabeth isn't that the narratives around you know brace and feminism and millennials and the intersectionality all of that cancel culture.

You know all of sing a huge subjects that get boiled down into these little nuggets that gets shared with polarized opinions on social media and noclip can do Justice to that conversation, but maybe the the actual show cam clip has made people like me who would learn a lot from that because your family have a lot to teach us older people that clip.

Stop make me do it and that's not the remit of the BBC the BBC prides itself on unify and reflecting the entirety of the United Kingdom no that didn't not specified very specific demographic and it was also high in the surgeon istick in that there is no Kevin and he went discussing the differences between ages it was very much attacks on women which again BBC that's in the nature of the slang word.

They were discussing Craig the term Karen did David report it over from America so then you're right there isn't a male equivalent, but that's not the fault of the podcast about it according to father that there is a medical is Ken does it does it need addressing by the BBC I suppose that's enough of this isn't for a lot of people somebody that kind of conversation is best left to independent should be absolutely by the BBC the BBC has to ring if it's it'll be at this isn't the best for all the guests on this program it still says the old is millennials or the youngest Alexis best best they're still not this young.

A young people BBC let give young people agency.

Yes to BBC should provide a window into Society as a whole not just a middle class B although all the middle aged bit of a problem for the BBC is by being the right.

This is the view from you and you think one thing and let's have got a view from someone who he feels the opposite even entirely balance, but we won't talk the percentages, but that makes a seem ok, but the problem which comes with come out the back of that is the drop-in Trust is partly driven by a lack of authenticity in the fact that people don't feel like they reflecting reelviews that they're just being in the middle of everything.

I think having a selection of used including this one probably more positive than negative.

I think they're the the danger is the BBC's always had which is I pay my licence fee.

I can't believe dot dot dot dot q.

Tory MP quote Sweeting and spouting off something and then the BBC is stuck again.

They haven't created the promise that haven't created environment where they we are the place where there are these discussions and we Marshall these different things that you can see that's the that's the course you would be fine if there had been a discussion.

It wasn't a discussion.

They were discussing the issue of Karen they were basically putting a lecture out with say this is what you should do a coding to us a discussion that would be fine.

There's a lot of discussing this but it wasn't a discussion guests guests opinion that's the other part of it now someone in social HQ decided been a good way to talk about the show and therefore this clip out of it, but you know some guests did some content and why can't that be in opinion.

The tweet was deleted pretty quickly shows that they made entirely the wrong decision and they realise they made entirely the wrong decision will come home, but it's just been launched Alex to make us all feel warm and fuzzy towards a public service is this promotion they've done called our stories are your stories? Have you seen it this video that went out? Did it make you feel warm and fuzzy? Well, I said it was intended to make us feel warm and so this is something that was on simulcast on BBC iTV Channel 4 and Channel 5 extolling The virtues of the importance of public service broadcasters for some reasons people.

You're actually already in the blood that time already involved, but what did you make of it? I watched it.

There was some things from different programs from the voicemail other stuff.

It is so forgettable like that.

It's my guess is why it was made as because they BBC News piece around different presenters walking.

Insane ambulance sort of stuff in there and they talked about how important is the news matters and that got all manner of brilliant social media reactions rightly so it's really really cleverly done peas that this is a late night if a wandering around and start Christmas TVs and ridiculous places as different programs clips in and then ok.

That's good what you're saying that TV is good.

Ok.

Good good that you're telling me you should watch it that there's no overarching out if there's no reason why TV is suddenly changed because of covid-19 the way the hazard Toulouse public service broadcasters are different to other telly look at the great work.

We do and how we make Britain Phil United are they that they are they are different but the BBC trying to rip off like left right and centre.

So it has a skill formally in bringing the country together, but that's have Public Service Broadcasting was 30 years ago and

It was very instantly forgettable and at the same time that I couldn't regional program and I just thought we were watching the program because there's nothing else in the North but the Angel very cliched image of the North and between us it was formed by the star of the public broadcasters saying don't either a sellers off Force us to cut a licence fees don't be enamored by Netflix who actually create programming that works internationally even though a decent chunk of its crate in the UK but doesn't really reflect British life and that the public broadcasters way to to continue that I'm actually craving Sunday pretty good job of bringing the country together Netflix doesn't create BBC Bitesize local TV news big etc.

I thought it was probably all a bit subtle but I assume this is the first of valley of things that those companies are going to work together to communicate to government and the public is actually a bit unfortunate from Channel 4 point of view Elizabeth if you agree, but I understand why the BBC would make a promo like that and ITV I guess as well to remind everyone have public service credentials and Channel 5.

I'm happy to be involved.

I mean you know Channel 4 have their own case to make the government don't care about how they publicly funded but also take advertising.

I'm actually it could be that the net effect of that for Channel 4 viewers was there a kind of saying we're a bit like the BBC and ITV I've been country to everything I've been saying for the last 10 years ago information in that telephones been sent since it began.

I mean it was the the channel that was going to break boundaries and do new things and yeah by aligning itself with the rest it like.

The establishment now very much bigger enemies on the horizon those in Whitehall and those in Silicon Valley for all of those those companies work together to tobacco off another weird fact about this promos.

It was also simulcast on paramount TV because it's owned by viacom which I don't think people think about my kids together.

There is just time to squeeze in Isle legendary Media quiz this week.

We pull focus on Britain's next big film studios Barking and Dagenham council have approved plans for 100000000 film studio in the Thames Estuary if the Mayor of London gives the Greenlight Hollywood blockbuster could arrive by Way of the east London borough, that's big on concrete, but not so big on glamour until now Dagenham has already been host to some story production ships in the past few years, so let's see how.

Guess know about the neighbourhood Media history, I'm going to ask you 4 questions about Dagenham filmic story all you have to do is give me the correct answer before anyone else is question number one superheroe feature films from Sony Pictures Productions made in Dagenham last year doesn't know the answer matte matte black widow black widow or mobius both Marvel films from Sony Pictures black widow had its release date pushed back to October from a mobius not expected in cinemas until next year number to play movie massive Netflix sci-fi series made in Dagenham from Charlie Brooker Alex Alex Black Mirror building was transformed into a clinic and police station in 24 the first series two are on the streaming platform has question number 3.

This is 10 seasons exciting play for now.

What is the name of the company Who originally backed the Dagenham studio Project

No one it is at pacifica Ventures that I was looking for there apparently pulled out over brexit concerns the council have let that stop no and are in talks with potential joint venture partners.

I'm here is question number for so I mean is if you could do us a favour not make this at I break that would be appreciated.

What will have to move in order to accommodate the new film studio site if cancer goes ahead Alex market of some sort good enough for me the city of London wholesale markets including Smithfield billingsgate in new Smithfield market were going to open a new site of Dagenham Dock and other markets will be relocated to a site nearby that sounds ominous doesn't it? Well done Alex congratulations you won the quiz on my thanks to our guests Elizabeth Carr Ellis Matt Deakin and Alex Hudson and that is it for us for this summer we are taking our traditional July and August break right now and we're not going.

For the TV Festival this year each and everyone of you who supported The Show this year with a donation you have enabled us to keep going thank you if you like what we're up to hear on the media podcast and you want to help us.

Keep making it then do visit vmedia podcast.com / donate and selected amount to keep us going all year round if you make a donation even a small one you can have a future episode in the autumn dedicated to You episodes and get new ones are released by subscribing for free.com the producer Rebecca Drysdale Sherry the media podcast is a PPM production and we will be back in the autumn.

See you then.

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