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Read this: #131 - Free Speech; ARIA Awards; Coronavirus Spitting Image

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#131 - Free Speech; ARIA Awards; Coronav…

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Hello and welcome to the media podcast.

I'm only man on today's show Toby young, put your money where his mouth is in Defence of free speech to mirror settles her up a case with the BBC and Britain exit the creative Europe fund plus we have reaction to the Radio Academy Aria Award winners and the BBC's hunt for new radio networks and in the media quiz we celebrate the return of satirical puppet show spitting image to come in today's Media podcast the MD of gold wireless harassment hello Faraz hello.

How are you? I'm ok.

Thank you.

But obviously not as good as you looking at that ji-min.

Frankly preposterous salt beef sandwich that I wanted to get in a sandwich.

Does not look like a sandwich it looks like it looks like something taken to battle for a week.

I quite like I'm currently I'm currently watching Parks and Recreation and it's it makes me feel like that kind of championing meats in in the last 9 Days of veganism.

We often talk Alex Hudson or other guest about the benefits of recording studios, but we've never mentioned before the apparently they let you know they serve food here.

They let you bring it into the studio.

I don't know if there's a fish that I cancelled it and I was told you not to OK they let her husband listen to this now will change that run away from you.

I'm blaming you but I am moving to newsweek to become editor of newsweek international which thank you is terrifying utterly terrifying big heritage brand big heritage brand big us presents.

They did have.

The presence and rebuild that and grow it back out and it is my job to rebuild that present so big global presence UK first Europe 2nd February 3rd Middle East fourth Leeds Metro in metro online there may be an element of population hear that don't know what it's for my heard of it and don't know why I think because usually have such a big us brand.

I think it's job is to be the most trusted publisher which is Which is the where we have to build music up so it has to be has Nigel Farage writing for it has David Miliband writing for it as people across the political spectrum because it has to have all the views and all the sides and as to allow readers to make their mind up and that's something which we think and we hope is lacking in the British market.

You are just bang Centre and Banqueting and do not publish fightnews do not publish clickbait.

Get to the get to the bottom of the stories and that's my sort of PR9 at the moment.

That makes me realise how much of a terrifying ridiculously big job.

This is my mum keeps making every time he appeared on TV it likely eat your cousin.

What is the easy really already just browse dating enormous deli sandwich when you're going to getting on domestic or international flights be interesting to know everything that's going on at the moment whether or not that sort of market of papers and magazines who do get a lot of attraction in airports.

Been hit by letting people take a flight schedule first search.

How we build up the job subscription model how we work through it how we don't remove the sort of importance of the physical copy or the addition based publishing.

How we move into US of forward-thinking touched alright ok? What you doing to do now is your first BBC sounds podcast episodes of the death which was for BBC sounds and the Asian Network and was all about death loss and grief in immigrant Communities and the British Asian community we had an incredible Cup hosts Melina who lost her brother when she was a teenager to leukaemia and Simon who runs a cafe in Brockley and is also living stage 4 lung cancer and they're both been in in just been really open about the fact that we need to have this conversation and and we've uncovered some just awesome stories because I think this one of those things in the podcast in space once you allow people to sort stuff.

They just open up and they have the most incredible fascinating story so very proud of it should all be up there now by the time this goes out 6 episodes, please listen to it.

Listen, but I think that's for the beautiful cuz you just press play when you're ready to listen to work coming onto your wireless and expecting me exactly because it's such a huge broad Canvas issue that affects everybody death eventually you know taking it out of a supposed to sort of Asian Network fear and thinking how does this apply to everybody couldn't find universal so I think the death and grief they have been quite agree causes a massive podcast you me and The Big C is a really big podcast and they have been quite a few things in this place to get to the point that when we pitch that we will worry though.

It's gonna be another one of those things and not be taken out but I think that the way that we went about it is we really felt like this is a conversation that was having not been had within a particular community it which I'm part of the community and there will come a unique stories within that so we've got a guy who runs a sequel writing company who just buy a coincidence then lost his wife and had to deal with her himself after being.

We got his incredible story of this girl is anonymous who was in a secret agent relationship which is one experience a lot of us had the contributors as well and closing presenters about that and it's because I think we have that relatability and this girl she was in a relationship with another agent guy and we've been in that situation all of us all around that table and she went on holiday with him and then he got his for surfing accident passed away, so she can have that level of university about an Asian experience and then it gets tasered in the next level have to do a grief along the way and once we kind of getting to drill down into the kind of cultural nuances of it.

It really kind of demonstrated that today.

It's an efficient experience and we can talk about it.

We're really proud of him talking about some actual media news stories with you got the exclusive isn't until tomorrow till Monday morning.

We're digital-first to let's start by talking about the Aria Awards which happened this week formerly the Sony Awards the Radio Academy Awards wasn't just radio telling that was rewarded this year.

They were quite a lot podcast as well good representation of independent and BBC and commercial.

What did you think of the winners? Yeah? I mean it's it is dominated still buy the commercials and heritage brass from the BBC every time something dry Awards to me.

We got a job a few years ago to do some filming at the awards and exciting accept.

It was actually a reward in Sydney which is the equivalent of the Prix in Australia and suddenly we were prepping for a radio Waterman in realise that actually it was at the Brit Awards in Sydney so have it then throws me slightly but I think that the from me.

You know this kind of fairly new to us radio and podcast it's great that is being celebrated my understanding of it is that

Been a bit of turbulent few years and it seems like it settle down now to to be able to celebrate podcast from radio on an equal footing and which delivery time for them to catch up with but it does feel like it's the same same level and as a resident Leeds champion Alex it is kind of noteworthy isn't that it does seem to be generating more headlines now.

It is back in London to the Palladium than in the past 4 years when they did host it in Leeds United Sky all of the intentions and it was a good laugh going up there for people that came from the South it does have more traction of the headlines like you were saying has got some terrible SEO performance so that you Google how are you getting nothing? I had to how to hunt when is this morning to work at 1 because it wasn't that instantly recognisable and it hasn't got that crossover is about the factor.

Everybody listen to the podcast everybody who's interested Media knows about all the winners.

So Greg James just to BBC 7723 Awards were BBC Breakfast Show Emma Barnett speech presenter.

Crouch podcast sport chalet Got The Silver didn't they say that but that's a podcast I suppose that's noteworthy and got the best breakfast show for when extra Ian Lyons talk radio moment of the Year by the public that wasn't a moment if you if you haven't got him talking to a person who was thinking about taking that night and it is a haunting better and it's because mental health and that sort of stuff that I've taken such hold this year that moment was a key part of how that move the conversation on Radio 2 picks up station of the year and with all the conversations going on around the BBC at the moment.

I've had a few open to me and say radio to one of those things that needs to have a look at about whether or not it is the public service taking all of it say if it's station that is is kind of influences that the commercial aspects of matching and it's really good encouraging for them to pick up that award as I can imagine that Broadcasting House there's a lot of kind of nervous face is coming into work at the moment and particularly look at Brands like that so.

Do they are still kind of punching above their weight and it is a really beloved station.

I think it's a great thing and I think they want us to be rewarded for that the opposite is true Radio 4 so that there was looking for nominations and there was no nominations for radio for make to DE14 p.m.

Today programme is entirely absent and that technically being part of like to Sony award winning teams and they're both for today and the fact that today isn't even getting a nation either means they haven't bothered to submit or but what's what's going on there was a criteria wasn't there were only allowed 50% BBC in each category and relations to give Commercials a chance today with the bottom half of the BBC and that's interesting by itself and that LBC isn't there at all, but they've got they're very credible Awards early the Globe Richard one.

Really cares about them off into the things that again like as an outsider and loss program that but we

Like the space learning but it does feel quite confusing I mean the BBC got their own internal music and Radio Awards as well and it feels like it's it needs to coalesce around one brand that everybody can really feel like this is the Oscars for for this industry big social media footprint winning Awards then it's awesome award.

He is if they if they consider is important enough that they've won something in my share it with their followers there follows all like it then the job's done regardless of how credible the snow that is changing that you know you can get an award for left like abcdefg, but it actually wanted picking example best news and current affairs podcast at the publisher podcast awards for the week unwrapped ballyman.

Also on the same night as the areas that were all the cool kids wear that that's that's amazing.

Come up with a clever witty comeback.

I got nothing and how do I know this it's going to say I won this thing that just isn't important the playlist now towards very important at least in my radio experience always worthier so when I'm back my phone is Sony's were the things that you were trying to win.

I like it's from the BBC background to the BBC are very much into the Sony but it's so it's how you go and the with this blurry line of ware podcast again and how much of a how much is a roll of Sound having that so late Jacob Hawley on drugs like I'll give you should have one not because it was perhaps the best podcast because the BBC is doing it and the fact the BBC's willing to do that if you have you listen cos it's it's him having a really honest look at the drugs.

He's on BBC sounds up there like a drugs to do it every so often do they said that talking to his friend?

Real Frank conversations about drugs that the BBC was not doing five years ago and actually that's the exciting but that is that there is now show some stuff for the BBC didn't used to do that is now doing and it's because of the podcast the podcast filler it article more rest of the BBC is looking at doing that now also change the title of the word from best comedy program two years running now that Radio 4 has not won the comedy awards points of interest creative Europe now because as of December 2020 so that's because the transition period with brexit UK content producers will no longer be able to access the EU funding stream.

We found out over the past few weeks can someone tell me about the reference and by exist and how exist the problem because it's one of those is one of those funds that the exist to kind of my understanding of it.

Is is the kind of help?

Be part of that service and and look at new ideas and and they did a lot of working in lots of different regions in in the art space and it's unfortunately one of those things that's not very well publicized of in the UK I don't think that many people know about it and so it may not be missed anything that now I know it's been taken away.

I think I'll be like I wouldn't even know they existed.

They can't believe it's been taken away from us and every 18.5 million is what they're taken away over 4 years between 2014 and 2018 that's how much British industry got from it had more British finches.

No that's 1.5 in Euro available over last 6 years and so with that maybe there's wasn't wasn't organiser wasn't advertising the correct way, but it it's this beautiful thing around.

How do you turn a British idea into European idea or how do you turn a French idea into European idea? It's at least from the point of this fund is to turn a single country thing into a Pan-European things that allows travel.

It's all about the public servicing and that.

Is part of this European experiment of the part of each of belief in Europe that Britain has chosen to be not part of that the wiring to the regulations and there's a bit of it.

That's of says you must comply with certain EU regulations and policies a financial contribution in order to participate and that's where you get into brexit and that's that politically and prys you that sentence in funding program that Britain can still be part of after the money for it comes from each member states' contribution to being a member of the EU so if we're not be you anymore, it would be on the contributing to some your some European countries non-EU can be just using it, but it's that thing of anything we are seem to pass money to Europe it seems to be damaging to the current government and said that that I think is a big part of why it's been stopped.

Will it get replaced by step up whatever so considerate?

The Ramon brexit and say that this is another thing that will losing because of were leaving the European Union and unfortunately for me.

I think there's kind of demonstrates did the poor communication that was had about benefits of being in Europe and watch this is part of and we work in this industry, but I know very few people that ever access founder of ever kind of you know pitch to it and feel like it's something that they benefited from and it's another rubbish and now with the world working away is now we're all looking for the pots of money be it from the BFI in a weird looking at the team finds when looking at the children's fine.

That's going on a fire as well.

There's greater skill set which is now known as something else, but there's lots of identify word that money is and and tap into a where as previously it was just two or three broadcasters that you would go to with your idea and hope to get it away now.

It's very different economy and and so it's kind of like it's unfortunate is really bad time.

Is it the sort of thing that make smaller independent companies like myself would be going well, if that's something we can pick into that we know the big guys are ignoring and it disappears as a result and that in is a bit weird because it's quite it should be that we are supporting small businesses and we should be helping them grow and these other ways to do that and now it's kind of disappearing and where were kind of again back to the old way of doing for 6-months work here.

I'm here now and sneak it in tell me where definitely go for some really pro-european attention to the self proclaimed offender free speech 1 Toby Daniel mausam.

Young going up to this week standing at the Toby and decided to launch some sort of Union would you have to pay into the freespeechunion the prefix Union £24.95 membership? You didn't pay to and then and then they will do.

Link to defend free speech at I mean.

I don't think I'd get around in a pub and where you cannot hold knights of the Templar uniforms and and kind of Bosch they shut their stores against you understand behind yeah.

Ok, I think I was really curious.

I think that the Olde platforming issue is something that's that's worth having a conversation about because it is happening more and more and there is a kind of sensor everytime somebody gets a bit of a profile everyone digs into their all social media to see if they can find something that they can come back around the head of the Stick about is kind of quite cheap tabloid journalism, and we seen it a lot.

I'm even when the what's going on the Caroline Flack recently everyone's floating around Leeds a social media messages like Piers Morgan did it about Jameela Jamil it's like you know it unfortunately this kind of social media thing that We Created is easy to search through and get something serious story of the back of it, but but for me it's it's really weird that we're having a conversation about free speech in what I see is an error with never been able to have so much for my speech anybody can.

My phone and put something and you can say whatever it is, they want yes that may not align with your employer and your employer may take a few that actually that's awesome, but if it's a bit of you make a decision to put something out there and published there were going to be consequences that the most why would you publish in the first place is a bit of a weird thing too kind of so well losing or free speech wouldn't I think we've had more of it another before there are increasing numbers of people losing their job because the things they've said because of a woke Twitter mob and the question is is exactly the question should they take personal responsibility for that because they said is or it does a compass point where it's gone too far.

I'm actually mob mentality is really there's a clear line here and so I'm going to apologise to back now for what I'm about to say cos you're going to edit delete some of it.

I cannot say Toby young as I cannot and if I say that you will have the bleep three or four of those words, but I can say that he's made xenophobic remarks.

They say that he said that Claudia Winkleman's breath.

Twitter and entirely, what was in as being an incredibly offensive remark that has come back to haunt him and that's because I spent so long in German and I know the weather weather lorries have a deep understanding of what I can say to not to not be defamatory the libellous slander the difficulty is that on social media.

There is no clear guidelines as to whether it's slander or whether it's labelling and it's real rabbit hole essentially seems to go down to how many followers you have and how many people sit and have viral it goes as to where the court View on that is better than ever and about to get angry because you've been called stuff that you said means of free speech is alive and well.

I mean they're out of it is in the police have better things to do than be policing what people said on Twitter and it actually there should be some sort of group the support people that are being which is Toby young person to be doing my first thought first and foremost this has happened because Toby Young made inappropriate marks about people's breasts.

It's like you know it's and then he got he did get them.

Handed him his hip reverb you and I think that he then has been lovely become defensive about that and and it kind of demonstrates that he has been able to say something.

I think the only reason he would say that put down Twitter is too kind of create outrage into kind of get people to you know took too.

It's a bit alright about it, but he feels like it should only be a particular line.

You'll take it much further than that and it's a bit like wall if you want to say something.

I'm not have any consequences against it then then don't say it why you trying to rile people up and likewise? It's it to me.

There's just this weird sense that you know you're not allowed at this only people now.

So you're not allowed to say anything about you, but I'm hearing you say and I've never been able to hear your voice is before there are people out there now that are filming a Katie Hopkins at the Piers Morgan's that you know these people have built their careers on Twitter and being able to say outrageous things and then now the moaning about that no free speech has been such a parrot.

It's a Jolt rope, so he

There is no free speech in a column in the Mail on Sunday the biggest-selling Sunday newspaper look for things that he can then have to sit around a table in the podcast on Talk That Talk about him about and that's that's what I said.

It's not statistically true that nobody buys into it.

Is it I mean I haven't seen her people have subscribed but judging by the comments on the Mail on Sunday please bring to be fair literally no money to Toby young, and then it's a free country.

You can say like you.

I'm saying some people.

Do you don't need to be another front of it first of all and the way that he's doing it as lord.

Ok, but is there another organisation at the moment that exists specifically to make sure that people aren't no platform that University is that one of the things.

I want a non fragrance system that exist is that like if you want to say something outrageous people be outraged.

Esso people of people that will pay you to do something and they don't want you to do anymore then you lose that work.

It's pretty, straightforward.

Let's talk about Disney Jeff Goldblum Mickey Mouse because Disney plus and sky have signed a deal which means that if your Sky Q subscriber which is the kind of premium sky product isn't it? You'll be able to watch Disney Plus on a Sky Q app on your homepage with a pre-launch price of £4.17 per month does that mean? It means that skyers understanding where it's at the market, so the same I think it was yesterday or the day before they announce that's all really similar thing with Netflix and what it means is the beam on your podcast before the mornings of f17 different subscription services launch.

It's going to cost you £100 a month to be able to afford all them to have to pick which ones you want and Disney specifically am absolutely smashed out the park.

We was it 2 million subscribers of them like the first in a 3-second of launcher whatever the first the first 1020 days and sky doesn't have that same offering original content.

Netflix does a Disney does so it has to keep buying and that content and for consumers it means that instead of meeting the 5 6 1012 subscriptions that you could have needed with Netflix and Amazon Prime Minister just need one and skies hoping the sky as the ones I've got you stick with it add onto sad.

I'm sad on interpretation of that they feel well, so I interesting deal was announced.

I was already a customer of Netflix I moved my Netflix account as a customer from pay Netflix directly to paying sky because I did the mass and Mentos a bit of money in it was easier for my billing all that's all so there is a kind of good customer value reason for doing this if you have Sky already and I'm thinking about being a Disney plus member so I probably will do it through my Sky platform and also my understanding.

I don't know what the deal is but I do know the way the Amazon and apple work is that they're trying to build an interface where you will subscribe to their to other people's products through their pattern warm and then they will take a car.

Basically that customer acquisition that they've helped build the marketing manager and stars exactly exactly so if that's a deal that sky have done that's quite clever because it means they're getting a car driver from Disney it then if they haven't done that do it's still quite clever because it means that this whole thing that we've been talking for years and years and years and years which is who owns hdmi1 who owns that thing that when you turn your TV on what interface that you see and I think the most people who are Sky Q subscribers in particular a very satisfied that when they turn it on they see you're very good plush very well and stable interface system that is Sky q q subscriber as well, and I just got a letter in the post of the day saying that my packages is a pound more for the movies in the poem off the entertainment.

I don't take sport.

There's another two more as well and then it give me another £4 for Disney stuff which at the moment is bubbles in because we have Disney yeah, so basically to keep watching the things like already watching I have to give to another £9 a month which is like the cost of a NOW TV

This is not gonna this is gonna be the conversation people have moving forward because all of these services running as quite significant loss Netflix running at a loss Amazon I mean Amazon of different business model because I buy a marvelous Mrs maisel but but but the Jeff bezos say exactly I think that's that's what he's better business writing was around prime video.

I'm sure it's changed now but certainly apple are looking at buying people's devices and then again people buying the Apple interface and that's where you kind of get the they get their recurring revenue.

I think that's gonna continue happening to the sky there is going to be there all going to raise the prices so there's no way that Disney is gonna stay being £50 not me to greatest deal on television at the moment.

It's not going to stick like that and so this kind of prize create will be seen across the board and then customers or me to make a decision about when they get the email when is the time but they're going to ring up Sky and say enough is enough and I think sky Betting that there still a little way off that it was that's why the Netflix there was a mouse.

Because Netflix can take on Sky their own business and sky partner with the middlemost ok fine.

I think you are scared.

They're not scared that the doing brilliant business, but Netflix I don't think that's needed to do that Sky deal at that point.

I think Netflix already grown quickly enough that it could have taken its own but without sky nothing.

That's the interesting day.


This is worth noting that Netflix Disney different business model because they sell devices Disney aren't going to sell a device you know Netflix Netflix stick you don't buy a stick and the Netflix business UB1 every single platform possible.

It's good news after them.

It's good behalf of the sky too kind of do that deal.

It's not really a huge amount of heavy lifting.

You know what it means that appear on your Smart TV appears on your Sky Q box.

I know but nobody kind of goes well as an amazing deal the LG or Samsung have done the Disney plans and now you can press the button is kind of the same sort of thing it's my Skype

Machine is a lot stronger and overdoing it interesting as well to see the Disney plus social media accounts promoting The Simpsons in the past few days that all Simpsons back catalogue is going to be on Disney plus from day one there was no I never did despite created it and I think there was a so when foxes geidea went through The Simpsons obviously a big part of that and that's what we were talking about it was even a bit that the commission where Darth Vader kind of walked into the Simpsons world and that's going and Mickey Mouse all at the same time and they realise how valuable that branded particularly too kind of aldermen and I think they're original promo that went out in the UK didn't have any symptoms in it and I think it is suggesting that those deals and the reason that they taken so long in the UK compared to everywhere else is between because all those lies and tails need to expire remove around etc.

There's obviously been a lot of back until that happened and unfortunately again.

They managed to snow this one before launch.

Disney on Sky wasn't it because the Simpsons is so associated with going for years the Sky Satellite vans were Homer Simpson Channel 4 remember.

There's a lot shows like lost any are all that was I think it always was on Sky One but it's been on Channel 4 as well, but the public but it's a Disney it's this fight likes the same as friends friends keeps moving around where is 5 peacock which they know which I don't know this research will drive this money subscribers and you move you move from Netflix to something else that that people will bit ridiculous sums of money.

So you know how I met your mother all these sorts of things are still I think I'm going through licensing deals at the moment.

Ok briefly on this, but there is a link which is that Disney plus cancel the London launch because of fears over coronavirus a weather overview of

The impact on this we could talk about the way David is talking about it too much hoping it not information all that stuff but it date so quickly that conversation but I am curious as to what impact you might think it's having on on our jobs.

So I'm not a busy as I would like to be and I you know there's lots of the reasons why you could you were so that's the case we sometimes take up a lot of work around the summer around the festival is in around the Fashion Week season and wear a little bit concerned that we're going to be hit with a double whammy of it being the end of the financial year, so let's breathe and less money out there and also be a bit more cautious if you was going to happen and all kind of big fashion events going to happen and people are kind of sitting on their marketing budgets as a result that said it so kind of the non-broadcast stuff that we do we are a little concerned that if it continues it is going to cause an impact on on the on the cash flow that we have but to be honest.

I mean the reality is that where is my video company? It's not really about us about kind of the NHS

And there's a lot more things that we have to be worried about before whether or not I'm going to get video from Glastonbury Festival have you been telling service at home and not as it stands work keeping going as normal until the advice and the government Changes but now I'm heading to South by southwest diesel tech Music and everything else better look up the weeks and Facebook as yourself Twitter pull-down actually and promoting a record out 20th of March by from all the drugs but so actually I'm getting more offers of giving because the musicians time-to-time stop streaming begin actually as horrible as coronavirus has a bigger bigger thing.

It is for me personally the opportunity to pay more shows out.

There is exciting as well that Alex is a musician be interested in booking your spoken word album information.

This is where people like the BBC need to excel because

Getting public information about getting a fax out.

They're getting people to wash their hands more touch their face less all that sort of stuff is information that that needs to be fed through as fact and not be fed through Facebook and so my hope is it two things will happen number one we will start seeing the value of the BBC and of good news journalism as a result of this number two people wash their hands Mum which is always a good thing and number 3 from a completely different point of view.

I think more people stay in and watch TV and and you know what the media and broadcasting that we produce some make a list of all podcast listen2myradio and that's kind of a good thing as US President John Oliver's last night has done the best work on it so far though.

I look forward to watch it yet.

They did a false of 15-20 minutes on and it was spot on ok good.

I look out for that.

I wonder as well.

How many broadcasters are bringing their microphone? She is very in you think about it.

It's like a germ magnet.

Isn't it right next to your face people driving around, Essex dirty hands.

Let me know if started bring your own equipment to the microphone.

What are you doing at life on in the background with BBC sounds this happened? Love I said dinner's ready lose yourself with the Legends fall in the making podcast listen only on BBC time is the podcast man who was my mum and we have a special bonus episode of table manners coming to you sponsored by Sainsbury's taste difference autumn edition range.

The fantastic broadcaster an entrepreneur Laura Jackson all about how to host fantastically listen now on your favourite podcast app spiritual and Studios around by spirit land Productions providers of professional audio solutions to TV radio and online as well as their broadcast standards spirit land Productions also has a world-class OBD vehicle for audio and video projects of any scale weather is podcasting outside broadcasting or live concert recording producer with spirit land Productions go to spirit then now podcast for as Alex are still with me.

Let's talk about Samira Ahmed briefly because she's just reached a settlement with the BBC after winning the pay discrimination case on the show before Farage

Saying I'm paid significantly less than Jeremy Vine get paid for points of View for hosting newswatch albeit has a small audience on the news channel big tribunal Indian no settled because the the earthquakes linked creates as a result of you know.

What is what is the value of a particular presenter and your is everyone who presents The Show automatically should be paid the same and we're going to have that debate now.

It was it was a scathing judgement from from what I read.

It was pretty pretty damning and I think that the BBC lawyers again.

It's difficult to know about being in that but by the sounds of it the case that they put up was just bizarre.

Kind of suggesting that Jeremy Vine and his either way to he is intonation and there's certain things that I can't remember.

There are some things that was said they'd alloys put forward is a bit like this is not the case.

He needs if you need to be.

No, this is there is a really interesting logical argument about where the One Show or one presenting is were presenting.

It's not based around how popular Jeremy Vine is and and unsuccessfully I guess to explain the X Factor won't they hold up the legal water.

I mean it's like you unless you can actually get a get a scientific into go to say will we know that every time Jeremy Vine appears on screen appears on on the radio is he's the way that he presents means that more people are engaged that made that I've got to back it up with things that you have legal unit holy water and we actually asked if you'd like to join us today to discuss and she declined but she did give us this fact which I think is quite interesting thing for her to have said which is the news watch has twice the audience of points of view and I don't know if that was a fact that was recognised as

Tribunal it's quite an interesting one.

Isn't it? As it's one that wasn't really discussed around the coverage of it.

It's how the BBC just Devizes pay structure.

Is it sort of commercially competitive? So you know Chris Evans jumpship.

It is because you know yet.

Slightly more celery and the BBC's always said to pay you can pay the rate of the market and so then if you're going to kill capitalism.

How can you justify one person because more a person that commercial competitor would pay more for Jeremy Vine they would was Muhammad that's that's the sort of fighting relatively but the actual thing as you know the BBC couldn't prove it wasn't because of and so the BBC that ruling is a sexist employer the legal somebody but it just seems like the BBC didn't bonkers job interviews you loads of this job in internal Defender because the problem with this is that what we do know is that mean the whole news which team is now open to clean the same well.

I don't get paid as much as the point of you choose.

So you know so, why is it that you know primetime BBC

And a team that kind of have this and that was awesome and we don't like you know it's open up a Pandora's box as a kind of what about how the whole system works and you know it's it requires to be silly, but the Boston and put together sensible straight for life isn't it? Looks like that mean to do that in this case if you think that's what she claimed that it was £7,000 in back pay you know whatever that's a couple of pounds you both both sides.

Go in sort of talking big girls.

Don't know but I guess that the BBC the calculation would be even though it wasn't right to pay out the calculation would be how much we can have to spend to keep fighting this and it's public late.

I still think it is important gender equality around pay is absolutely insured if there was that question too busy couldn't answer about gender parity that need to be sold them as discussed many times on This podcast before that still not right the BBC is terrible.

It is just slightly less worse than it's competitors.

Think it's like yeah.

We need to come about getting really good understanding of the kind of why they made his argument and it doesn't feel like they did put that legal cases anyway and happy news tomorrow as also just been shortlisted for the broadcasting Prescot audio broadcast so if you listening to me well done City on radio the BBC controller of Pop Lorna Clark has announced plans to hire head of station positions for the networks that she oversees all of them which kind of means they're not calling it the controller of radio 1 in the controller of radio 2 anymore are they but they are essentially new positions vacant for the controller of Radio 1Xtra 26 and Asian Network I mean, it's boomtime isn't if your patient because it's a good thing until you try and find anyone who was formerly controller of radio on Hall radiator.

Louis Louis de carne with a formal the radio to you cannot find my internet Anywhere he is invisible Ben Cooper like I try to find LinkedIn does not exist.

It's fascinating where do they go? I appreciate it closes but they are completely eliminated from the internet do not exist make it half an hour if you can guess.

It's how you create the tone and Radio 1 like an and the and how you put celebrating actually having that autonomy of tone and of audience pushing animals different pieces which struggled when they're Vancouver ran1 Asian Network and when you know about 16 different things all at one time having one person focus on one thing is a good move and still sexy job.

I used to be a sexy jobs.

We can't already One controller editor.

Is it still yeah? I think I think so, I think that and I think that the the the value of these jobs is is.

That is you get to concentrate on building one brand and it's it's a it's bringing back the idea that all these things have individual season and individual personalities and and I think that's a really good thing.

I agree.

I think it was when you had Radio 1 and 1 Extra and Asian Network all been looked after by the same person because it's like you know the focus is on on that station identity is going to be diminished as a result so having one person by results each other brands means that you know and also having that bit of internal competition where they go up against each other we've already talked about how the BBC dominates in the radio space.

So yes, they should be kind of domino competing for audiences as well and I'm going to be a really good interesting insight into kind of what the BBC themselves feel like the identity of those stations and and how they hire internet according to come from the commercial world in which jobs because it's usually internal candidates, isn't it? Because even if you've done really well at our or global wireless you make a different kind of radio generally Originals basically less talking smaller playlist.

Growth of LBC global of all of these commercial vans commercial brands of suddenly jumped up on the BBC and dominating what is released on a on an even keel with audiences now so BBC in the same way that looks to YouTuber TiK ToK for the new presenters looking to Commercial for news of editing on controller Talent is no longer as unlikely that used to be like if you look at radio one is called ready at 1 then actually it's audiences about social it's all about video.

It's audiences about kind of in a Pop Culture in a different way that the radio to Juliet says which is more purely about what the nuts Radio 1 and 1 Extra has to represent a cold shower and 6 Music has to represent the music scene and and having one person trying to put all the different hats on is is silly so I think this is a very smart move and I think that what you're seeing different types of people go for those sort of jobs that require exciting is typically been sort of men in their 40s and 50s have been running Radio 1 you think I should cut off.

Should there be an age cut off for Radio 1 UK is supposed to be about youth coach I believe in Agecroft let me know I think John Peel and Mary Anne Hobbs and Pete Tong and you know these are still David Attenborough one of the most beloved and watched.

I don't think he's running for suggesting that you have to be a particular used to relate to particular audience.

I think is new and it's actually a little bit silly.

I think you understand and know that audience that's different and you understand where you can get a talent from and you can understand how to communicate that all these properly that's that's one thing but I think having kind of cut-off surveys just because the demographics of particular thing is it's like you know marquee for instance.

He is dead music that the Asian Network and his wife, but he grew up in Southall your part of the job.

It's cold here now music genre music but more than anybody else out there it just happens to be a middle-aged white guy so do we get rid of him? He's not Asian I mean that things going to me.

There's a reason that the BBC particularly Radio 1 audience.

There's a reason that BBC

Because they do not trust young Gemma so young and so and if you're going to get these people in older or you know why diversity with BBC has to do then my god.

Speak to you get the people in you can speak does audiences directly because they have Direct experience of them and the reason the BBC is it because you do not trust your young journalists is the reason why I got the reason why my generation a form of BBC employees all left because all getting frustrated at the lack of opportunities and if you look at the people who left with me then I'm running and BBC Studios then outrunning investigative unit senao about to become international magazine and Mrs the BBC does not let people give them agency, Oldham any voice that relies on a 50-year old to come and say that's nice and do nothing about it until they leave ok, so I've been following my logic of execute Andy Parfitt but you are kind of saying it would be a young person needs to have oversight of people will experience you know where that line is but then just say that then be looking for men and push wigs.

That line is someone over the top of them say it's not quite right but make sure you keep saying yes and these people because otherwise you will lose them with the BBC keeps doing time and I'm surprised when we haven't recently wonder why that could be good news for audiences young and old now.

There is just time to squeeze in our legendary Media quiz you can sort yourself a sandwich again, if you still listening to this you a little bit of FIFA news landed this week, but the classic satirical TV show spitting image will return as the first original commission for britbox Forest of Dean began Donald Trump will all get a puppet but how much do our guest remember about the original series questions about the old spitting image to do is come up with the answer before their opponent you both know the answer so that she will say let's go what did Margaret Thatcher

Collective cabinet in the original series of spitting image, what did Margaret Thatcher call a collective cabinets multichoice for saying that would be bothered me invented to other and just tell you it was the vegetables here's question number 2, how much did the average episode of spitting image cost to produce Alex Alex £1000 at least one story about the guy the module or the co-creative? It is like any interview of his bloody brilliant easel areas that I hate this I regret doing it as rubbish.

Everything is terrible.

I got it was all come back if you give me enough money.

I would love to go for a drink with me.

Just had brilliant.

How much would it cost me now? Well that is the question isn't the question that arises.

I mean if £300000 vein in the late 80s early 90s to make it to that standard now and it be not topical because I need it to existing a streaming platform for and be relevant in night.

You think of the level of quality of comedy Talent they had back then and they had Harry Enfield and Steve Coogan behind-the-scenes, you know doing the voice isn't the gags is not cheap.

That's done my Snapchat all about puppies with Emily and cuddling you didn't win Ronald Reagan had two red Buttons by his bed each marked with a single word.

What were they original series spitting image 22 buttons xx Ronald Reagan's bed.

You are both going to have to guess on eagan MN no Alex yes, no new one isn't got in you and you got half a point.

That's fine.

Alex's 112 buttons when nurse and new joke about his that is dead on britbox.

I think people I think people like in a sign up to watch it, but I think people who have britbox might keep britbox for longer cause of it and I do think it's going to spend on social media clips of it.

It has been very good writers and to get those jokes right.

I'm not in a 15-second clip of like melania trump doing something ITV ITV kind of similar reboot not spitting image, but it was cold, but they had a kind of comedy satire shows and is it a great hit rated sign for this is how can you be part of that little conversation? How can you get into Westminster how can you get into the Minds of the public? And I don't think that's possible because of the internet.


I think that's the one there.

We go just got half point Alex congratulations there might be the first one the first one a long time.

New job in the media quiz can only go downhill from now.

Thanks to Alex Hudson and Tifa as many thanks to you if you enjoy the episode today and you won't help us make more kind of money that britbox are checking spitting image.

You can just take out a voluntary subscription forever much you like had TV media / donate and choose your amounts to keep us going all year round the previous episodes and get new ones as soon as they're released by subscribing for free via our website the media podcast the next time.

Hello, I'm Jessie Ware from table Manners the podcast now here with my mum died and we have a special bonus episode of table manners coming to you sponsored by Sainsbury's Taste the Difference autumn edition range check about we talk to the fantastic broadcaster an entrepreneur Laura Jackson all about how to host fantastically listen now on your favourite podcast app.

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