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Read this: #125 - Political Freesheets; Clarkson’s Climate Climbdown; Bloomberg’s Blackout

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#125 - Political Freesheets; Clarkson’…

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Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm Ollie Matt and Prince Andrew plus Jeremy Clarkson son wakes up to climate change just in time for his new TV show and in the media query as we say farewell to broadcasting Legends Clive James and Gary Rhodes enjoy me today chair of the broadcasting press Guild Jake kanter.

Hello Jake hello you have a new job since we last saw you you are international editor of deadline Hollywood you that horribly wrong.

3-years Business Insider and obviously I used to work broadcast so yeah, it's fun to be covering a media again and I guess that used to be if you had that job in London and you were writing about us Productions or you were writing that British production through us audience there would be a clear transatlantic divide there, but nowadays I mean all the American money is going into things are being filmed Elstree and Borehamwood and wherever these days on your right about Netflix commission that could just as easily be here in London as it could in no Hollywood and the money that flowing into the UK from major companies is Explorer is a great time to write about telly and not those British TV Christians use right now work for the American tech companies who now has gone from Netflix and many other examples the sweet spot for us is always the intersection between the us and the UK and luckily I'm I'm writing in that sweet spot.

Mummy says Arsenal is already you want to search about Richard Lindley I think you know it's really exciting the future will look into the past is quite informative to and Richard indeed was a great report in the golden age of those charming and glamourous young man went around the world telling us.

What was going on.

He was a great report and it's really Carol stone.

I want to talk about his ex-wife and they were a really interesting love match.

You know the immediate love I think at the Edinburgh television festival delays in life and they were quite different Carol is a great network is a great now because she's an incredibly good Garrison great fun Richard a little bit more aloof but they got together and they were great couple sadly Richard suffer from dementia later on and Carol looked after him and she was absolutely wonderful and I saw the birthday party in the summer and I

It was to see someone with dementia and someone looking after them and then having a great time with this party, but sadly they were involved in a road accident a couple of weeks ago in Soho and then which was in hospital Carol and he died and I think she must be devastated and a lot of us of the older generation our generation to our hearts go out to them because as I say they were a real love story my story.

Thank you for that days and last but not least veteran mediapad commentator Paul Robinson director of creative media partners always flying in from somewhere.

Yes this time.

I try to keep telling cards nice and gold Robin going a horrible blue colour invited to speak at the st.

Petersburg cultural festival.

This is a festival promoted by routing and designed to encourage people to invest in Russia and it was fascinating and some very interesting performances, but whole purpose really was to get people to think about how they can work with Russian producers.

Co-production and what they do it with their nounced in fact that this festival the 40% tax credit on production down in Russia so it was conversations with Russian Studios licking them with Western companies ways to get to kids animation into Russia and then to produce a show that will work around the globe in a masha and the Bear people know but it was an accident.

It wasn't designed to be a global show there's never really been a Russian animation has travelled around the world and they want to do that.

So this was about promoting that and paid for by the Russian government's that's all good international companies to think we want to do something that feels culturally like it could be done with a Russian company or is the idea more like the tax breaks in Belfast or you know Detroit aware of the way you just go and make something there is no one really knows it's a Russian cultural references are important but for kids anyway to make something successful.

It's got to have a global appropriateness.

You need to tap into stories and things are kids care about globally the Russians no they're not very good at that.

The very good at physical animation their production is fantastic, but their story writing their character design not as good and they recognise if they going to export Russian creativity to the rest of the world Dr tapan some global storytellers and within a British or American writers showrunners to reduce to show that will travel look at it so Peppa Pig she coming soon if there is an election going on there is some shit going down which we need to discuss so don't even know where to start but my script says let's start with the Lib Dems newsquest bus Toby Granville this week threatening to boycott coverage of the Liberal Democrats in his newspapers after the party publish their own free sheets that looks like local paper when if you seen the examples of this that people online get your nodding to greet you think these things the mid Hampshire Gazette in the northwest Leeds and Wharfedale news if that landed on your doormat you would you believe that?

What was a genuine local paper but I don't know I didn't think it was new I think there's an old trick that's been used by the political parties in the past and it's insidious misleading dangerous, but I kind of look at these things these days and construct my shoulders it all feels a bit Parochial on forever going on forever and this is kind of particularly British thing isn't it and you look at a world in which Donald Trump got this enormous megaphone in which she lies to 70 million people at once a little newspaper fake newspaper like going through someone's door doesn't feel I don't know maybe maybe I'm being too fast and really bad attitude.

I mean just because they bigger lies doesn't mean it's a small lie that isn't good and it's ever so slightly.

The most dangerous thing is happening is electricals.

I don't think it's really useful at this has been flagged this fascinating because in a lot of areas local authorities read newspapers that look like a genuine newspaper and they're actually you know the local councils and organ over communications and I think it's really important that people have their attention drawn to this people do Reeves local newspapers, are they wanted but particularly comes with the door 43 and it's really I think quite dangerous when political party pretends to be something.

It's not it is not the publisher of an independent newspaper of local journalist of the people want it to be real.

You know it's always told local Media is dying and I don't personally believe that necessarily true.

It's probably mutating and this is an interesting example of how it is meeting and how it still does matter to say that he will not cover the Lib Dems in his papers and mothership.

I'm nothing.

Yourself in the Foot but it's interesting that it matters enough to fit the headlines.

It's also the thing of I mean if the newspaper said actually been called Lib Dem news.

Paul then everyone would understand it's a Pamphlet that for the local paper we get what that is is the fact that they tried to make it look like the genuine article Liberal Democrats was written very small letters.

That's what feels insidious mum pleasant about it.

These days people have always done it, but now it's highlighted news.

It feels hypocritical a distinction and draw parallel to and that is you know when you're with anybody you need to know what the source of that is in another example would be Wednesday the tour than Wednesday advertising and that's always been something I think in the UK with been pretty good at differentiating.

So you know when it's now virtue editorial.

This is clearly misleading they're not the only political party to do things that perhaps are not completely whiter than white but I do think is it demonstrates that this?

Spring force of the local level is give me a lot of tactical voting what happens in local constituencies.

What matters you know whatever the swing maybe nationally what happens locally may be driven by other factors and therefore local papers are awesome so I think it is quite encouraging the local journalism, but I do think it's very clear that we call this out.

It's changed because obviously but perhaps since the last decade is it when people get stuff sent through their door.

That's locally targeted at them or when people actually get a Facebook ad even as locally targeted at them.

They can share screen grabs of it with everybody else is no longer something that's just for there is only everyone can see when the parties are lying.


I mean the best example.

I think that is election is the Tories rebranding their Twitter account as fact check UK let's have a little rant about that everybody I'm gonna try and fill an hour but let's talk about that.

I think it's really interesting the whole fake news and

Clearly from a prejudice point of you like a political party.

You need to know about that need to be clear about it, but that sort of thing as always gone and the whole idea that fake news is something modern and completely you know of the moment is so wrong.

There's always been fake news right right back to the middle ages when people bleed all sorts of things about the saints and went on pilgrimage isn't so when I'm not saying it was necessary on true, but there's always an element of doubt about these things and people were promulgating things that possibly won't do it always had argument about the leaflets that it didn't matter cos it's always going on say that well.

You did sorted didn't mean the local side of it and social media thing though is the fact that they were pretending to be an impasse checking service is not even a case of removing the Conservatives branding and sound and Boris Johnson too well, but actually trying to fight with you.

It's not good absolutely not know.

Partial journalistic organ that straight out the Donald Trump play forgiven, but you must have the of the public when this thing happened.

I hope that will actually react accordingly and judge people on the ability to trust what they read.

I hope that people who are actually doing such activity and and misleading the public will actually pay the price because they won't be rewarded by supporting.

I do think the public are not stupid this important nowhere and if people are cheating and they should have the consequences paid and that whilst having a cold this week that show that of the most memorable events of this election so far.

I think 9% recognise that fat check snafu or and that was right up there with people remembering.

What was in the contents of the various manifesto is so people recognise that was an issue, I think.

Twitter bubble wrap that they remember it in the terms that the Conservative Party wanted it to be remembered.


They remember that people took issue with what Jeremy they're coming from in the first place.

I think and that's really really important because there's a reason people have by various newspapers because they already been onto that particular try and sort them particular views.

Yeah, exactly is there a bit weird that the Electoral Commission gets to sort of adjudicate on all of this stuff rather than the advertising Standards authority or you know the individual social media companies seem to make up their own rules for something.

That's been most important part of our democracy because regulation and statutory cover it doesn't extend to social media and it will in the future is going to have to happen Como somebody is going to have to take a few on this at the moment during this transitional period but it will change that John Sweeney as well.

I don't know if you saw the Open Letter but he sent to Ofcom I mean it was it was sent as

Website accusing the BBC of failing to broadcast mostly his reports on the far as Russia and brexit.

I think it's got to be looked at because every Whistleblower has a point that's why they blowing the whistle there are some interesting things in this example and a programme about the Maltese journalist Daphne caruana, galizia opening hours axed, but then I notice yesterday on the BBC News was quite a long piece about multi didn't problems in Malta and I thought how interesting I never seen that before and was interested in this because I know what to do Maltese to understand my work and I was really surprised to see this write-up on the BBC and then I find the Apes a Whistleblower said they actually show about it, so I don't know it's interesting isn't it? It's up there on the news specific examples in specific job this one of the things.

He says is that Jon Sopel shouldn't be doing corporate work for I think it was Philip Morris and the another one as well.

Is Justin Webb from the state program also doing corporate wait from one of the companies that I think Panorama we're looking into is that right but high-profile BBC presenters if especially freelance shouldn't be take corporate gigs on at the implication because any corporation you work for is going to have some doubt but that is true.

I think I think that perhaps you've got the terms of the contract and they have got to be able to have the freedom to do other I would like to opine on it further than that it does as you say start to sound like sour Grapes when it gets so personal working news.

He's not saying that if been saying if you are the North America editor.

You shouldn't be taking money from one of the biggest companies in the world that might be at the centre of the stories you report it is that fair point on or not? I mean clearly their contracts allow them to do otherwise it will be doing it.

I think if I was in their position.

I would think seriously about whether taking on work like that would compromise my judgement and if John so bald.

Report on a major Whitehouse candle or American scandal because he's a North American editor involving that huge company in the US then does that colour is reporting question that's not me suggesting that the doors but it certainly doesn't help it's reporting.

I don't think I guess there's the thing as well of salaries because you know we've talked many times on this show about whatever I'm getting paid as the BBC the story before to consider what their position of the BBC get something corporate.

I think what's important is that we expect to BBC journalist to be impartial and do tell it straight and not to be influenced by any other paid remuneration.

I think you're not in any business.

You have to avoid conflict of interest that is absolutely critical that you do that and as a salted you have to think very carefully if I work for this company.

Is it going to cause a conflict with that company? Is it going to change my decision making ultimate you're paid by somebody it is going to change at least how you think and that.

So best it's perception issue, but it probably means in reality you do acting the somewhat different way, so I think it's important that BBC journalists are completely beyond reproach and can be now that means say to be denied doing this work either.

It's going to be an area where there's no risk of any conflict with their news reporting or there.

Have you paid a different salary to enable them to work for the BBC 6 not take this work on I might be being a bit too optimistic, but I cannot imagine that the BBC would allow them to take a post with another company which is going to cause a conflict of interest this must be examined even if it's just exactly as I don't think it does happen release it's probably at the margins and overall out the BBC generally gets it right to me the fattest been christened this election campaign from both the left and the right that spicy other way.

Give me some sense that probably be getting about right and centre party invitations.

Do you think there's another one of his accusations John Sweeney said I'm Rogen's from the accepting invitation to party.

What does the word for in what's wrong with his party interestingly some stuff in the north of England years and years ago probably 40 years ago.

We are invited to a lot of parties by a British nuclear and I was in a conflict about whether we should go in this chat said let's go.

It's only bribery if it works and that's the difference you can go to the party, but it is only bribery if it works PR works.

There is a bit kind of does work.

Isn't it? I mean he unintentionally about saying a brand name because you know you have a goodybag to ring your head, but you've got to be very careful and you know as you put the greasy pole you do that.

I suppose it's a difficult one but how prescripted can you be about what people do we are all influenced by things all the time the schools we went to the people we knew the background.

We have I'm saying that people should take vast amounts of money from The Corporation and then favourably report on his of course not but there's a point at which you cannot edit out all our backgrounds Newsnight for a brief moment we should just

On the interview Emily maitlis interview Prince Andrew over his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein it was on telly.

I think the day after we recorded the last edition of this show and obviously made some waves who would like to go first on this he talking about the BBC that's not being as strong as it should be when reporting the news and risk-averse.

I think this is a smart the BBC raise this this exact point in their response to John Sweeney by saying hang on a minute.

Look at look at this story within on Prince Andrew look at the interview.

You know it's not every day that Britain's national broadcaster.

Rugby tackles the Queen's son that of his royal duties.

It's a once-in-a-lifetime story clean up every single Awards I think she was amazing.

I don't know that she knew what she had.

Contents but I remember her teasing the story on Newsnight the night before is broadcasting on display program as well and she said something very flimsy like how you've never seen a member of the royal family opened up like this for people who make up their own Minds it didn't feel like she news I'm going to be that was going to bring his career down it was because it was the reaction from the papers that that really pleased it's a great interview very interesting that he was quite downbeat during holding.

I think it was the waves that will call back caused by the red tops that created this huge brouhaha.

How long do you think they worked on it? Paul well? You have to give the production team because I'm amaze.

They were able to pull this off.

I would have thought the palace would have said I've not gone to Emily maitlis, Newsnight I would definitely not have gone to that particular out.

That is all the places.

You could have gone to the interview and her.

Intelligent as you say forensic style which is always going to unwrap it, so I may so loud that happened and I mean that had been pitched differently you know we can talk about this but also other things he wouldn't have been subject to the scrutiny was under and he was always going to fail so I think it's a major failing by the palace.

I'm amazed having had in the past all sorts of other so partying the one that sort of spruce is the Martin Bashir Princess Diana one, they allow this to happen.

There's also that bit of the end weirdly the people I'm talking about because obviously there are many other things to discuss but just looking back on it where he tried to publicise pitch at the palace is incentive that he did with startups coming round which is now all around him and he was talking about because it was clearly the case these people said look ask a question about that.

It's so out of white with everything else.

They'd been discussing and obviously no one said that we need to start by talking about there so we need to talk about all the great work.

He does he was actually handled that bit of it.

You were Prince Andrew PR even in the context of having agreed to the interview because Emily maitlis did the PS4 the Sunday Times I think it was always at Sunday Telegraph I can't remember which he was but she did a very good.

Look up how the whole thing was put together and she explained how they started months and months ago new year ago from trying to get this particular interview and they've worked on it and it has gone to come back in the producer come back and all the rest of it.

So it was really absolutely down to that program that team who made that approach.

It wasn't at the palace was looking for somewhere and landed on Newsnight it was the Newsnight we've gone through it from the beginning and I think that's really interesting and probably that's why there's Paris Palace fell into the Trap because months later they thought we need you now having another team for Prince Andrew training explained himself and this invitation lying in the definitely credit to them ok.

We'll be back with some more media news after this we going to be talking about Clarkson

Join miquita, Oliver and will Lions as a chat exclusively for guests have an exceptional vintage.

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Spirit land Studios are run by spirit land Productions providers of professional audio solutions to TV radio and online as well as their excellent broadcast standards to facilities like the one I'm in now Down Productions also has a world-class OBD vehicle for audio and video projects of any scale weather is podcasting outside broadcasting or live concert produce your next show with spiritland Productions go to spirit land now welcome back to me podcast my guest Jake Liz and Paul are still with me in the pub now because the former New York mayor and media billionaire Michael Bloomberg has kicked off his president run for the Democrats this week by banning his own media company from investigating his campaign.

I mean he's basically said.

Bloomberg can't it be involved in any investigations into himself and I think Bloomberg will cover this other day today in and out of the election push and other media outlets are reporting on Michael Bloomberg but they won't be at even though.

They will be able to investigate Donald Trump they won't be able to investigate him.

I mean that was certainly what I read some of the North Korea is when is extraordinary and particularly at a time when my my former employer which is Business Insider they publish report yesterday looking at court records going back about 20 years which raises serious questions about Bloomberg behaviour.

Yeah, it's been accused for Peterlee in court records of making crude remarks to be my employees.

There's clearly room invested work as far as his track record is concerned and there are journalist that Bloomberg who absolutely would be jumping of it to do that kind of work.

This is how he emails to.

1700 people I mean if you're going to attempt to try and muzzle your own people you might do it anymore subtle way, but I found out 2700 messages.

This is inevitably going to the pub.

I think it's absolutely arrogant and naive and of course it plays perfectly the Donald Trump no one could be happier now than Donald Trump what why what's the what's the play that Trumps make a with Trump is always saying it's me how the media of God in wrong.

They don't understand him and so on and look his rival doing exactly the same or worse yet and actually I mean like news.

Isn't it from the trump camp my phone is now managed to make Bloomberg on the list of fake news providers which the president going to be calling out.

That is sad thing is looking any democracy you want to have a range of options to vote for you.

Need to have no choices to make and suddenly the choices have been somewhat damaged.

Everyone was hoping that be you know a Siri

Tender your next time the elections come round in the US and of course, this is that she damaging that chance of looking at this as British people not as American people this absolutely makes the difference between the British election coverage is run which is organised by statute representation of the people all of that and and American election coverage is American media is much more the product of people putting their money where they wanted to be having their outlet saying what they want to say not being regulated in the same way that we are and Bloomberg is just a man of that type.

He's bought his channel.

Is he wants to say what he wants to say on it? I think in the radio interviewing.

I what he said course.

I don't want my child basically slagging me off.

We've got to look at it from their point of view.

They have a completely different Media I don't know Alexa personally don't Alexa party me know people keep talking about you know the leaders of the parties in the UK will not Alexa one of those leaders were electing a party so different.

I don't know if Jake Wood

Much more famous what's going on in the US but it is a very different set of isn't it? It is the thing that staggers me about all this is the Bloomberg has been built into a fantastic news brand also responsible for some amazing journalism and this diminishes and undermines all of that only in our eyes.

Maybe not the eyes of us are supposed to play in his view what he is.

Obviously a conflict of interest because I am the agency said white let's not pretend that they can be apart from me.

Let's send everybody an email because you know in the US you only child is your channel you say what you want on use this story being reported in the US will anyone in the us know about this all they care.

Yes, I've seen from inside of a Bloomberg clearly seething about this from the Union representing journalist at the Bloomberg industry group.

I'm not saying it's good.

Is different from marginalism we have to look at it and see how do us citizens reactor they say made judge it different retouching cause it's his channel.

It should say what he wants on it.

I mean is the average USS England bag if you actually becomes president then like Trump's company was supposedly.

I've got to be outside of his influence then some gym then Bloomberg would have to be so all might have to stand down from the border whatever but the point is during the campaign.

I mean he's made it into the campaign with the most expensive series of blisland.

That's of all-time funny and sell the way I'm not surprised you said this to his employees but the amount of money that's been poured in this fascinates me.

I really I just don't know which way it's going to go it like vs.

Like isn't it? And it is appreciated.

Open with the likes of Payzone in the Washington Post soccer bag if you choose to run for president, I mean you've actually got basically if it's going to be a world where only billionaires can stand to be the most important.

What's that's always been the case, but now they can control the message entirely as well.

No not entirely the other channels is the US it's different from us.

We have our system and I hope you believe our system is better, but it's all system with a different history they do it there and really worried so much about commercial involvement you look at the American TV and very blatant commercial activity influencing behaviour is not something people have any problem with therefore more worried about you know sex on the TV was here.

We may be happy of you.

Ok? Let's talk about Jeremy Clarkson I thought he just disappeared behind an extortionate paywall, but he's back to blame climate change activist Greta thunberg for ruining car shows like his 14 Amazon Prime

Who saw this story as well go on in Cambodia and Vietnam they basically joining the river and they start at a this is what I get the pronunciation wrong, but it's Tom ASAP in Cambodia I think and basically there's nowhere near enough water in this leg and that's down to two things one one the Chinese better and reducing or supply and secondly climate change and I think that's the most important Factor in this and it is the first time that Clarkson and his crew have acknowledge climate change on screen.

And makes no effort to conceal his his displeasure about her he still has those views but I think importantly in this recognises for the first time on screen that climate change this and it's not a big issue, they they they they make a note to it on the show say this is desperately worrying and very quickly as Andy woman.

Who's addicted to see told me afterwards.

No not suddenly become David Attenborough basically is Somerset made, you take a certain worldview boomers basically are ready for this piece of information now Clarkson climate change does exist and tweeting about this the Exeter regarding significant is important for people like dogs and publico to make this statement even in their own way which might be considered by the twitterati to be rather insensitive.

Time it change or is he having a go at Greta thunberg? Obviously doesn't like oh, it's just both but it's mainly this person you think is the most interesting things about this story was the fact that Jeremy Clarkson was only 59 as I was much older than that was really entertaining when you said that the greater is an idiot for claiming.

We're all gonna die because clearly his kanadai sooner well, you know the proper 3859 but as he was much older than that probably sit in the car all the time isn't great for your skin in the small way trying to appeal to more millennials to get back just to be cleared.

No no he could not give more of a damn about the animals he was pressed on this point.

We had a press Round Table after the screening and yeah, he he doesn't care about upset millennials doesn't care about upsetting gen Z snowflakes.

People who have a spare room.

How does it work so it works it offers free places to stay and then the issue is that the stuff? What's the saying that to have an unpaid internship in London cost more than £1,000 a month so then people can't afford it.

I think the story slightly confused as to things there's there's the issue about diversity and insuring.

There's a proper installation of journalism journalist reporting stories that obviously right, but it needs to reflect the population of and then there's the issue about affordability so this is taking both of those things people who can't afford to undertake an unpaid internship and also ensure we got diversity and a proper representation and particularly know this statement.

If there's if you look at the professional journalist who are from working-class background is a very very low number and way below the the population average, so basically journalismus still somewhat dominated by middle-class elite and an Oxbridge in fact.

Always got a bit lost over the last 10 years.

I feel that is cos obviously understandable reasons lots of focus on women and lots of focus on BA my people actually not much talk about who hasn't gone to private.

I don't think of it as well.

I don't think you're quite right there.

I mean I was in postgraduate education and it was a constant worry that the applications did not come on a large number of applications did not working class people in Northern people who could come to London and that is that what people who are recruiting for independent production companies with think about that.

They might be thinking about what colour is their skin and what gender are they not thinking more and more something am I really do I just on my own person experiencing talking to employees talking to students.

It's really up there is something people are worried about I think this is a great skin of it myself.

It's so good and you anything that helps people get into journalism who aren't from the obvious background is really great that doesn't mean you know that there's there's not great people from other backgrounds.

It's just the diversity element to make sure there's enough people.

Comes with the decline of regional newspaper journalism, is that the probably isn't the way in the region that once was through the newspapers like when I started I don't actually work on a newspaper the last people I worked with worked on you and it is that's one avenue.

That's closing a little bit of other avenues to websites and so on are opening but the problem is and is always been the case that the really important influences the big newspapers national newspaper cm70 based in London and people work in London and have a london-centric you and that's that is the problem with this election with everything that's going on is that we feel that we don't represent the whole country in the way that journalism used to do and also I think we've got to rethink this in terms of the election because you so right.

He said it's been on a very local if they're on the journalist out there reporting locally then political parties pretending to be done as I'm gonna get away with it.

It's really simple.

You know people can't afford to live in London

I've got an internship.

So give them free accommodation and a mentor in 10-minutes a clever simple thing, but is it practical step is fantastically smart and addresses a huge issue.

I think is right.

I'm in class is increasingly being considered a bigger part of solving these issues and yeah.

I just reflect on my own experience.

I was very fortunate to have a apparently works in the tree who was able to help open doors for me and I lived not far from London and those things I think probably put me at an immediate vantage that others didn't have and I think anything that done to address that gap would be is entirely welcome, but will free accommodation actually inadvertently perhaps end up propping up the tradition of unpaid internships that so worried that this is not a great singer told me I don't think there's any unpaid internships should last longer than 6-weeks.

That's my view and I have seen people in the past horribly in my view by very important.

And it's all wrong.

I do wonder if I could give you an anecdote.

I've started a club for children at my local primary school since I've become semi-retired call the news club and these kids are incredibly diverse backgrounds.

Would you like to take the newspapers home and most the kids? Thank you for the newspapers and one girl said no no we've got loads of newspapers at home and I said oh, that's great.

Well done and she said yes, it's cause rabbits you said so I think the fridge.

Yeah absolutely bring a huge amount of businesses that thinking at the right point and that's it's very easy to exploit.

Sunny in the past that we had people who then have gone to get jobs.

I think 6 week scan after being a bit short to be honest because by the time you get in the door.

You know you've got to get that person comfortable and it's very important get real work to do and not just give him the side of the the desk and read their sorgo, make the coffee you going to get really involved, so I think actually you need a bit longer than that to really build skills, that's why don't you maybe 10 to 12 weeks, but I think it's very important as continue to 12 weeks unpaid 12 weeks as an intern.

I didn't say I'm asking and after number of weeks.

He might start to pay that person because the thing is actually the reality is isn't it that if you're completely new to this you don't have contact so maybe you're straight out of university or even school and you come to the big smoke E-Lite 506 internships you need six months in 6 weeks even if it might be 6-months.

It's very difficult to meet people who can't get Internship

Play the play the playlist in the waiting list there aren't enough internships for that to happen in a what what matters is that people get the chance to get into working environment and then that gives me a better chance of a job.

Maybe getting a job because you found someone really really good one is interesting is that this crowdfunding fund has worked and that says to me that people are willing to put money in a the value and that's very very briefly was Ron diversity Liz obviously every time you come on the show we catch up on how the women presents on the major news that we had some really amazing statistics and I can actually give you an update as we just had some fresh ones from the end of 2018 beginning of 2019 which show that it's down to 21 in that means the only twice there only twice as many men as women and when I started doing this anecdotally about 89 years ago.

There was 6 times as many men as

I mean, I don't know what's causing what's effect but you have definitely seen more women being interviewed as authority figures on the TV news, then we know that you did a few years ago.

So yeah, it's looking good profile examples as well.

You know two women and coming breakfast or Good Morning Britain let's not be naive about this to still a peg after still in it's still 221 and it's all it shouldn't even be that I would argue that sort of reflects the level of female thoroton Society and that might not be right, but it's realistic when we started again the broadcasters was saying oh well, you know we're just Society but they weren't there mate discriminant discriminating against women so it's not all bad news, but you've got to keep your foot on the accelerator because if you stop it goes backwards.

Ok, let's talk digital media now and reach the company of the titles including the mirror and the expression OK magazine these days as well have 40 million unique visitors in a single month.

That's good right joke.

I mean I'm not unique visitors.

Think a little bit confusing but when you look at website metrics that puts them close the top that's UK readers or in a month and it's got all their title should be celebrated The Express and Star trickiest the clickbait holes on the internet.

I let me know her scan at website today in preparation for this and some of the headlines are just extraordinary.

I mean then cyclo mean suggest asteroid warning.

God of Chaos asteroid may set the world back to prehistoric times.

I mean as a headline today.

I think I would met and that headliners lifting but I think what we increasingly seeing is the Debate shifting from one around reach and uniques to what a conversation around engagement and

Increasingly becoming a more important metric for publishers websites as well done with those instead bought them and basically Daily Star website is almost indistinguishable from the mirror.

I mean it's just slightly low around like you'd expect but it doesn't have enough sense of fun and it doesn't feel that to me.

I can't imagine someone repeatedly going back to that website for any particular.

They designed their homepages are one thing I'm dying thing these days, they still important for the brand but the way that people and on the Star Inn Express website is through social media by finding stories at going viral and their feeds.

I think the mirror is responsible.

I'm not so sure about the Express and Star but I the one thing that Unites all of these websites.

Is there all a terrible experience they?

Are slow to load the pages you are bombarded with advertising you are bombarded with videos and I struggle to click on their links by trying to avoid it because I know I will not get a good experience.

That's interesting I do that as well.

You do that and it totally do that when you when you want to look for new store in you search for it.

Do you make a decision on which provide your click? I'm not based on the journalism absolute house that every single day as well is absolutely a bit of a red herring not least because in a News UK or just behind the 38 million and dmgt just find that 37 million reaches a very very rough and basic measure.

It doesn't tell us jokes about engagement you want to know how long people are on there.

You know the extent to which they return and if that for commercial purposes reach doesn't give you anything at all.

What matters is how.

May your consumers on that side because that's what you buy you buy impact you don't buy reach so I think it's sort of a non story the way what's interesting is that you know reach as a company have been really changing quite dramatically they change their management have really been focusing on digital absolute drive on digital and I suppose you could argue.

This is some sort of validation of that strategy and Tuesday now and I'm sure people listening to this may well be confused because of retreating the reach of its difficult companies called Reach and it's now saying it's got this amazing reach of unique users what I don't quite understand is if Google sites totalled 49.6 million and reach the company is getting 240.

I mean that insure.

It doesn't seem quite right to me.

I just thought Google would be huge by comparison or am I being naive UK numbers and numbers of the UK and the rich numbers are all territory.

So that could be someone Googling Kim Kardashian from Canada is not really I mean News UK that you can see that trend News UK and overtake reach next so impressively forensic for 6-weeks also would be helpful though, even with a good story.

It was an accurate good story and then you will comparing apples and apple with a shareholder community there is just time for a legendary Media quiz we having the room today actually well sad news because it is about the death of a couple of broadcasting veterans who influenced our.

3D landscape in more ways than one.

I'm talking of course about the tv critic and writer Clive James who this week lost his Battle with leukemia and the TV chef Gary Rhodes who died and the age 59, so I'm going to ask you 3 questions about the men's lives and work all you have to do is give me the answer before your opponent you buzzing with your name when you know the answer to Jake you will say Jake call you something else.

Sorry ok, let's go, what was the title of Gary Roses first full series for the BBC in 1990 for the answer honey name clue spiky hair is it roads around Britain roads around Britain including his new British classics and a series of MasterChef which wasn't on roads in a bit more detail but I really think that.

Give us a joke out of you.

He was right the TV was the first the first proposed was one of the first Big hosts of MasterChef before I became really be again done all these individual shows yeah, he was responsible for a big Revolution British cuisine and the real sadness about this is he was about to do is first shown about decades he was on a break in filming when he died and company called Rock Oyster nicomedia was making the show I hope that maybe ITV an oyster Media can get together and bring some of it to the screen.

I think it would be really good tribute to him because he's you know people think of him.

I suppose is being a bit naff the spiky hair and it was a while.

But actually what's your heritage resetting in that peace was the travelogue thing was basically ripped off by Rick Stein and the cool young chef did things ripped off by Jamie Oliver and actually almost every in cookery now that wasn't established by sort of friendly Craddock and Delia Smith was first done by Gary Rhodes and he's clips of him yesterday and he engages with the camera the way he talks about what is preparing the skill and precision with which she cooks is utterly engrossing and hypnotic is lovely.

I was once on the Tube and there was a woman opposite mean.

I think she must be a relative of his and she's been to a shower something and she was saying.

Oh, yes or Gary this are Gary that and it just sounded so warm and lovely and I thought it was incredibly well done the roads.

Is best known TV review show I don't have a confined this and produce Rebecca for Saturday Night Live Clive Clive know anyone else Clive James on TV on TV called in the early 90s and it was brilliant.

I mean all the Japanese game show stuff again feels passe now didn't at the time I heard of insurance before Clive James introduced the revelation we can't believe people being humiliated in this way on television.

He brought that to us for the first time and he's writing about TV was just so good.

He was just absolutely an unlikely TV

He's not the best-looking TV star you know nothing obvious TV person, but he just had style and he was dry and he took the mickey and Away that was you know acceptable and fun we stay tune every week and I wanted to try and book in for a show and original ITV showing years ago that co-operative well.

I don't blame him really because I rang him up by mistake at 3 in the morning because I didn't realise it was abroad and it still makes me squirm thinking of doing that to a TV legend of James's that he understood the power of the medium heel of TV and knew what it meant to people and I think that really came across in the way that he reviewed TV as well.

I mean just because he was Australia yes, I think that was so important.

And you know people on the beach in the newspaper did Clive James write a TV column between clue not the Observer between 2011 and 2014 the answer is it the New York times.the New York Times the Washington Post The Rumour was when the paper got a new editor-in-chief they sacked in the telegraph pole pull it was the Daily Telegraph you've won the quiz congratulations.

That's impressive Happy Birthday for today.

My thanks to my guest list hello Paul Robinson and Jake cancer if you like or up to him on the media podcast and you want to help us.

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