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Read this: #123 - Samira Ahmed vs the BBC, Daily Mail podcasts, Apple's new TV shows

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#123 - Samira Ahmed vs the BBC, Daily Ma…

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Hello and welcome to the media podcast.

I'm Olly Murs on today show how podcasts are helping Spotify grow their profits can audio help them male-dominated news Cooper go after Radio 1 + Samira Ahmed and Ofcom give the BBC more headaches and in the media and the original series hello nice to nice to be here 11 all coverages later, but in the meantime.

Just give us an exciting Q3 radio ratings headline.

Obviously the most exciting thing is.

Best ever radio performance yeah, yes my own radio station the other my other fact is the hours for younger people is starting to drop precipitously ok.

Obviously the biggest event at something else recently has been producing the excellent episode of archive on 4 presented by currently open to eat at Ollie man flashes.

Tell me instead about on the Fred and Rose West Tapes will it snow salacious as you might think it's a podcast that I think is episode 8 is out now and it's basically going out soon as the journalist who first one the first it was the Fred Rose West story he's got his original micro takes from when he was covering the story 25 years ago so is interviews with lodges and lawyers and family members and so we retelling the Western particularly focusing.

On the victims stories which at the time with tabloid journalism really got ignore their released the list of names and it's a series that's doing very well, but don't go on this week.

We're recording it's now the car now gone past 1 million listens.

So thank you and I save the best till last we have a bluechip panel with us this week.

It is the annual appearance of the Queen Mother of Media pundit that you got the women in journalism event this week understand going to see because it was like a defensive fortress offensive that I couldn't find it and none of this is actually by accident of course when you've designed these huge buildings and it's I think directly influenced by nine.

In fact that cos you know effective very much so being a New York worried and I think probably understood that there would be future threats to people actually just trying to do janaza of any sort of financial journalism, but yes, it was a good it was interesting because they were very experienced women giving their knowledge and experience to catch lesser mortals in in hp engine is one of the things that came out kissing really was that women if they wanted to literally nomarch up the up the scale and become the buses are going to have to be very good.

Just going to have to be less drinking Violets and they're going to have to come forward.

You know if the story gets dismissed you put another good one.

You don't sort of runaway and your corner and sort of have a little dweeb.

You have to sort of there a man up or lean in Sheryl sandberg indeed.

Retweeting each other that's changed as it says when you started out.

Yes, it has and I think there's also there's a whole confidence level and there's been a change and the past 10-years and it's being driven to buy the fact cannot now for example.

Just have an all male panel on a discussion show with you.

Do you realise it's a bit wrong or you it's very specialist subject, so so there's more equality share of Voice although obviously there are still more male voice in female voice but all of that has improved immeasurably I'm in one of the people on the panel was Liz how who you've had on the podcast actually pioneered an awful.

Lot of the he might come monitoring really I'm content so yeah, it was a good evening.

I enjoyed it ok.

Let's dive in then.

We'll talk about her ofcom's second annual review of the sea and their findings that Auntie continues to lose younger audiences matches of alluded to this with radio, but this is the case across the piste report.

Is quite feisty with the BBC and a taken to task over a whole range of activities? I mean gender age race is in there, but also nearly got a bit of a kick for how they doing in On Demand vs other S4 providers like Netflix when really it is ofcom's fault there in this position.

You know we're going to work together on a thing called kangaroo a number of you get with the perfect time this was all kicking off and they were told no that would be anticompetitive and now they're getting a kicking because they're not doing so well for the particular that your referencing there is the younger people were more likely to watch BBC content on Netflix and iPlayer that's pretty damning.

Isn't it? They wouldn't even know the Doctor Who was the BBC show the doctor is a baby show but they have a device and an app and a system that they can see my lorry television on that's that happens to be onto and they're not too bothered about going to the to the BBC's platform.

Show they may not have got the message yet with there's a section on iPlayer for them also.

I think one of the big problems for the BBC Television is it's been programmed so that is average age is in the 50s for BBC1 and BBC2 and probably a great surprise that young people I'm going to go to the on-demand platform for the service that mainly reaches people in their late 50s and I think that's a big loss to they say all the BBC 3 content is on BBC one, but again it's on the channel which you know probably people on consuming and they were in a world where we schedule are TV and radio stations by knowing what they do so I think absolutely the BBC's jobs to fix the stages.

Soft part of their problem that they caused some hits I guess because I'm in a lot to be made of rupaul's drag race start that's been advertised not really is BBC3 show but on iPlayer and secondly it's not over a decade but I think this is the problem I've got myself into is they've got no places to broadcast this they've they've lost any channels to do the job.

This is why radio BBC sounds and why the big bushes they're pretty much have to do all the heavy-lifting for BBC as organisation to reach young people so do you think I should make you end up seeing the BBC doing a BBC sounds but for telly there is a real my player in the pipeline.

Isn't there maybe it will be focused around new content that young people you can't get elsewhere, but I just don't know I mean if I could just pick you up at 11.00 this kind of chastising of the BBC overnight.

Catering for younger people this has been of Clans attack on Channel 4 really for the past decade before it came into the area of regulating or seen the BBC2 and yes the BBC are pretty annoyed actually with Ofcom when we're another and I would also add that if you look at ofcom's somebody not me that somebody needs to actually do a proper examination of come operates because it is actually still quite a young regulator and all I know is for my history Channel 4 that Ofcom makes mistakes.

It wasn't actually necessarily opposed to the kangaroo apart from that was really a competition in you which was probably wrong, but there has been is constant and nagging really about younger audiences while at the same time expecting the BBC to be all things to all people my view is that a lot depends on whether the licence fee is sorted out this over 75s you if they don't somehow.

The money that they were expecting to get from a government then there in if and I've heard quite a bit about this if the Gambia deal done once we get over brexit once you get past the election once people start talking about policy poppy once we have a culture secretary more than a couple of months, but I have heard very good conversations that they can be some sort of fix on this then maybe the BBC can stretch its wings a bit Morgan was using about publicly was the idea that the licence fee becomes a subscription.

I think most people in college that sort of always been on the table, but in like 40 years time but might be that sooner than expected.

I just think that's proper very very slippery slope in terms of if we genuinely believe that there is some sort of role in the production of content for the BBC then to go down the subscription clear.

Starts to make it a another service and I'm not sure that's necessary the the Right Move I mean I think if you want to talk about big steps to BBC should be taking we all know that historically it is the TV people in the controller to have dominated the the politics and the Landscape at the BBC to the expense of online continental expensive radio and that has to change your mind is there is a big it was a big argument bring a big fight coming between the role of iPlayer on the people who are leading iPlayer and the role of channels and where they might stand a loss it gets to the heart of the sea which is the older audiences achievement through the channels in younger audiences Arms radio haven't we going to play out and you hear people work radio for complaining, but it's got to be sounds that has nothing to what happened to BBC sounds was a bit better organised as well.

They made a sort of somehow in in this so that everybody always does this when they relaunch them and online site.

It was get it wrong.

I'm in Channel 4.

Reddit Wolfenstein pudding for all on it just visited a model at the moment that's coming with sounds I think because Jonathan wall is in there now and he's got a box of track record of working with the small dynamic team because he used to head up live and I know that he's already getting in place much more great organization, but obviously it just gets to the heart of audience behaviours and it and you keep coming back to the same point which is once you get an on-demand had it why would you switch back that idea just turning on the telly and hope you gonna find something would just turned on the radio and hope you're going to find something is not going to happen.

It's not a logical Direction and also what they need to do those they have to then invest in the actual technology more because it's a delight to use Netflix as opposed to I can I let's be honest about it.

You know the the Netflix experience is extremely seductive but because I really really really work on the technology and you don't get a buffering and they managed to find and I see the new time programming budget for the BBC just that I'm just trying to.

That if they do get some compensation or something changes out with the over 75s then they would have a resources to put into that as a post content, but it this is a problem is across all of the domestic efforts to do online sites.

It's not just a BBC Weather Leeds today mestic.

Let's not forget the iPad is still very good platform and does lead the way but you're right.

It's up again some really really challenging and also that transition from being a catch up service to meeting her but destination and have always had trouble defending one and going into another can we talk about what I said about BBC news as well, which was essentially journalist need to be more willing to challenge extreme views basically saying this idea of balance gets too overly impose.

That's what is over the Naga Munchetty

And it is interesting because I've well they're also saying that younger people if they want to be if it's the BBC wants to be engaging them like gritty stuff like views and they like things which stand out and some of these things do run counter to the BBC culture which is to try to be measured and balanced and what I think is actually think it's nothing to do with this is I think television is a very difficult medium in which to discuss complicated political ideas and it's perfectly it's a spoken Media visual medium and in some ways the best way to actually work out.

What is going on history proper newspapers or to read the document so I think it's really hard to be informed at the moment about what we're being offered in Breck I feel the BBC gets a bit caught up in that but yes of course it is to anodyne.

It's it's coverages is under attack from both sides, and I don't think that necessarily means that it's

In the right place mental point which is that it's quite right.

You could strike a balance on an issue where there are two genuine points of View so you know of abortion classic example.

You know you agree with the other side, but there are two genuine points of you when you get something like climate change and you have Nigel Lawson on the Today programme who is a climate change the night and talking nonsense and all the science is there to show that this thing is is happening.

That's not a balanced issue.

That's not a point of let's show the other side because the other side is factually incorrect which is what he says, but the problem is now if you're a presenter on the BBC you've got a lot going on you got people speaking in your ear you've got to represent the values of the BBC you've got to digest a news and presenting no way that successful and entertaining or less the same time your nails supposed to be for ya is this an issue when I don't have to be buttons do I have to say the counter example thing or do I actually say no you're wrong? It's a lot to expect of a journalist on telly.

Live in the moment but also I think the shift is also because we're in a much more divisive Society now Could Dream by brexit and also consumers of Media particularly the ones are on Twitter and the social platforms are used to having more specialised hearing more specialised views, so there's a lot of people who just assume that if you are in London or trying to strike a balance.

You're lying you know you are withholding your view and actually secretly in what you've said.

You're attacking one side or undermining the other and I think that's the problem is the assuming that successful talented journalists a cheating with what they say and then you look at something like LBC and I think you have Iain Dale who is used to be an MP is right wing however because you're podcast because you know that you can make a judgement about what he's saying.

I think it's you.

I think a lot of people feel that is.

Honest because you understand them as a human being and staying in the middle and perhaps just doesn't scale to more complex digital world really think is Nigel Farage going to be allowed to have keys his position in commercial radio because I don't know if your son is a you know what I'm doing and even if he hasn't got disqualified him from broadcasting.

I need to double check the room is really changed that the climate on what's acceptable under our so-called impartiality rules and I listened and I think goodness little circle where they were the presenters are placed in the schedule as well.

You know they're not being buried late at night then writing your Facebook maybe driving around in cars.

You know going on journeys.

That has completely changed the the atmosphere and so has actually the Naga Munchetty decision which has Rocked the BBC because it appears to say that on morning shows maybe you'll know Good Morning Britain for example.

You can have opinionated people the best kindness is actually rational scepticism that is the phrase I've heard national scepticism evolved use hello.

I'm Jessie Ware from table Manners the podcast now here with my mum died and we have a special bonus episode of table manners coming to you sponsored by Sainsbury's taste difference autumn edition Range and check it out.

We talk to the fantastic broadcaster and entrepreneur Laura Jackson all about how to host fantastically listen now on your favourite podcast app.

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Sound aponix that make the environment greener cleaner and more sustainable discover the power of green savings bonds is episode of the media podcast was recorded at spiritlands studios in London's Kings Cross spiritland studio to run by spirit lamp Productions providers a professional audio solutions to TV radio and online as well as their broadcast standard studio facilities Productions also has a world-class OBD vehicle for audio and video projects of any scale weather is podcasting outside broadcasting or live concert recording produce your next show with spirit land production, let's go to land now well.

It's not just a reminder of the Guardian Media

Like back, then we are doing a hefty chunk on the BBC song and moves on to the next BBC story so I can get through as many as we can which is the radio One controller Ben Cooper has announced his departure from the network a brief over to Steve and what do you think as prompted him to go so Ben has been controller Radio 1 for I think something like 8 years.

Maybe something like that.

He previously held various other produce an editorial roles of red wine had a stint at capital as well.

So long term radio person clearly someone who is very passionate about the radio.

I think it's probably a couple of things put first will be early in the year.

You may recall the Lorna Clark appointed as I think I've not heard of that that is above the controller of radio 1 and I don't know this is fact but I would be amazed if they hadn't gone for that for that role and clearly he didn't get chosen.

I think the other thing is look radiant one is a eustachian.

It's it is having.

Faster pace than ever before I don't know exactly I'll probably late forties something like right.

So so I would imagine that the you know the other issue.

Is is just the radio one is as we just been debating with the TV channels is facing real real challenges and then probably looked at it and it looks his expertise and the demand for audio professionals that that there is now the things that podcasting is probably thought ok.

I think I know I can I have a good chance of picking up a very nice well.

Someone else worker.

Everything is going to go briefly.

I don't know but I mean if you look at previous controllers in music station BBC they usually go into the music production could potentially be any other one of the big American podcast company tullos.

Typical BBC2 commercial radio change because they are so different as organisations.

Yes, they share some frequencies, but they work is almost entirely different and on another BBC story Maggie they are fighting a pay dispute claim from Samira Ahmed Samir Ahmed experience stamp Janice she was at Channel 4 but she has most recently be doing been doing two spots really for the BBC and she is saying that she has been serious underpaid at £425 a week for a 15-minute slot newswatch, which really is on the BBC news channel, but which gets dropped into the Sunday breakfast show us and the problem for her is that the person who does points of view or has done points of you when she was basically doing her job.

Find and he was originally getting £3500 for a point of view that isn't gender discrimination that sort of BBC One News Channel issue is the point of using entertainment show news watches, she's getting paid the same as the previous male a bit really I am not a bravery but there is a difference between a news channel program permission for a news channel which gets repeated and and what might be a high-octane entertainment information show big breath.

She is Jeremy Vine is is it a star that's the fact of the matter.

He hasn't much I've listened to him actually on Channel 5 is Michael weakness and I also quite like I'd like him very much fun on Radio 2 and he has a lightness and he has a width and he's just a very.

Accomplish broadcaster in every area as far as I'm concerned and I think that may account for the difference between a he's not there now because we know what's happening at the BBC is it for to pay policies have been actually very very models and I include the people right at the top who remember getting bonuses in the 90s and Furious in The Politician's you've got presenter some of him very few now remain, but who could come on whatever their agents could get for them and everything has changed really plus of course.

There's this biggest you yeah of being far between people being equal pay for people doing equal jobs, so I would be so I'll be surprised if she wins would be your right everybody needs to conjunctively Bigger star than Samira Ahmed but her point is no Woman was allowed to be as biggest are is Jeremy Vine in the scenario where the head presenters the big nut the big money went to big male names.

Simon and Robinson used to do very well, I don't know I think I think that there is a difference between people who are genuine big stars and people are not and this is just an unfortunate fact that the BBC also happens to be in business as well as in public service with it.

Would you touch on a little bit is it's not just about the size of the star.

She's saying that in effect the shows he was doing was based on the content as points of View and therefore.

That's why I should be paid the same and obviously tried all sorts of issues because you know where does that stop in terms of apples and pears you can completely see in the Carrie Gracie case she was a correspondent in China and she was complaining.

I'm not been paid the same as in a special Correspondents in America and so you can say ok you can see that is an affect the same job and there is a clear a strong case there.

I think there's a real new.

Around this that is very very different and I can you know I think we all agree with the principle of equal pay but this feels like it's not quite a fair comparison though, how the hell was for a program that bloody watches.

Yeah, I mean imagine Claudia Winkleman gets paid a lot more for doing the film programme on BBC One when she did that and then whoever host the Mark Kermode thing on the news channel content Simon Meyers moved out Jeremy Vine has moved out or diversified.

We've got John Humphries apparently doing something for Channel 5 Classic FM

Was when you stroke her all the politics you realise he's got a great radio voice actually is pretty well suited to Classic FM to get up to speed on all the pronunciations and the start of the station, let's move on from the BBC please talk about online streaming Spotify results are in revealed some interesting data matter what we learnt.

We learnt that Spotify are doing you didn't need a big investment to the podcast space earlier this year.

They acquired three companies give me the media podcast and anchor tattoo lesbian content companies.

They were already making some of their own material and what they've decided seemingly is there an audio system not just a music app and they are keen to have everything that goes into people's is going going through Spotify they should their course the reports both are buried in the data was.

If people listen to podcast through Spotify there more likely to convert to paying subscribers at the service and that's coming into thinking that see that's where it comes from.

There is not funded product in Spotify and the pockets have done ok with their had money and that's growing quite a clip, but it's still dwarf by the subscription revenue service is podcasting a way to get a new subscribers.

It seems to be the right thing for them and Steve as a podcast producer.

How do you feel about that? You know Spotify a chroin say all look we can use podcast to Leverage our users to subscribe to premium give us more money.

So what does it you're not people like your show where they giving Spotify more money to hear it.

Is that right? No, but where it clearly helps podcasting is the investment that they are putting into podcast in don't just about them buying the companies.

They bought for significant amounts of money.

They are also investing in original titles so in effect becoming a commissioner and they're buying existing shows so successful podcast.

Are being made offers by Spotify to take their titles over to spot a big around investment going going in from that means.

I'm paying you to take away jobs that are annoying me people who are making a financial contribution aren't line in your pockets their learning a third parties pockets that you haven't inject that is true that they also paying for a system and marketing which people to listen to Our material and it is a podcast provider.

I'm very happy that there are a number of competitive apps out there as well as apple in Spotify and another thing I want them speaking bective at because there's have a better chance of not locking me in some content dungeon and getting me outside potential podcast.

I'm actually really really pleased to see commercial radio doing so well.

I mean I think when I said earlier that the regulators make a hash of things very often.

I think regulators made a total hash of radio in in the 90s and it's good to see national brands being created LBC going national for example mail.bcu was completely beaten up by the regulatory system managed to survive come through so now I'm I'm quite happy and you're not actually going to see you can't have when the whole time the BBC is still in a very very very strong position as a broadcaster in this country on in all areas, so it's inevitable as commercial radio really gets it's act together at which time start the sorry to say it's taken too long.

It's there you're going to find.

Challenges Inverness find digital channels that really at strip them and that's how it should be that's competition for you network channels are doing well as Kisstory absolute is welding absolutely over with the main kissed.

You know they found a thing that works which is dance goals 4-1, and very well one of the machine that with hearts and hot 80s 90s global of just launched the whole suite of new national spin-off Services based on their big brands, because they seem huge both reach growth, but more importantly H gross as it's the hours and total and provide the commercial impacts that these beasts can monetize.

How did scholar do though because that was actually a bold New Idea wasn't it classical music for young people that doesn't seem to cut through.

They have dog drop on their opening radio and sat there around 230000.

I think they know it's a big build.

I'm sure they would like to be a little larger.

I didn't say the Simon Mayo was off or much of a quarter and I think there's some telly to come to promote it so it does show just showing a station national doesn't mean instant success and the things connect to Brands at other things that I've done my colour because you are not easier to introduce something but it's just been off with something people know and love to start from scratch and rubber depressingly for people who like a local radio station back in the day more vindication for the networking strategy is no, I think I'm writing saying that the combined ratings for the heart breakfast show is more than all of the individual hearts out it used to be so happy out today in a lot of the local stations cos they're smaller have their radio measured annually in Rolling quarters as well, you know.

So it's perhaps not totalview on those shows yet, but I think I think there's a good point which is particularly for the pop radio stations that I know popping entertainment Jamie and Amanda on heart.

It's Friday stable.

She's busy.

I think she's she's really good and it's different to what the local stations delivered, but it's high quality and I can see did pretty well.

I'm talking about BBC failing with young people earlier.

Maybe a Glimmer of Hope in Greg James ratings on Radio 1.

They're up yes great great Outlook when he's clearly connecting with an audience good good time.

I think Radio 1 on the whole continues to sort of find it quite tough going on still looking to Max's much money expert than me, but that's all that sort of chips around this sort of 9.2 to 9.7 million in its about 9.3 million at the moment.

I think that's a reach figures.

That's people's listening to 5 minutes of Radio 1 in a week and I think.

You never lots again lots of competition with talks about they spin-off stations people can have a very good useful radio experience without Radio 1 at which you couldn't do even 10 years ago and they was going to find a challenge.

I think the big shift as I mentioned earlier was about hours and younger audiences and reach actually as held up pretty well around so many people that listen to 15247 to radio 10 years ago this into it today, but the amount they listen has changed and that comes from being a point where at 3 music entertainment was only provided by the radio that would you cause is not the case now so it's been great surprise that young people listen to it and we should be very pleased that they they listen in their volumes, but that's a big Challenge for commercial groups that are built on their hours.

So if you see you look at the share in London which is why people look at LBC is kind of been at the top of the last few quarters and classics actually doing quite well.

What's the capital in the kisses have been drifting and hot and magic and doing better and that's because there isn't the volume of listening for younger audiences, yo1 basically a channel that radio station that appeal to younger people outside of London and sounds to me very sort of quite posh actually for a D10 Bitterne station.

So this is very much the joke is the research shows whether radio one is very much for the Millennium kids unit id001.

They work quite hard to have voices which represents a lot of the areas great contest last week for a treasure hunts and they got in England Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland with voices from each of those places being kind of Champions for the winners as I think I might be going to look at her.

How great does outside of outside of a different Chris Moyles

He is an angry me as well.

I think it's it's always more traditional radio listen and what what grade does but it's a much more consistent listen.

I think that's what he's doing well and finally on on the new station from LBC LBC News is anyone get into that you had listened on launch day, so LBC News is a 20-minute roll.

So if you change your headlines and 20-minutes 30-minutes that's basically except when there's breaking news and there's been a bit of that this week and may have they will take a parliamentary debates and it's it's it's presented live access to pretty good resources now.

So that they can they can do a good job of it, so it's really well done and I think if I was coming for what's the BBC a bit odd look at that and think this is an obvious thing.

We should get some I remember saying to you on this show before Steve Ackerman but 5 live like they have a sports extra should have a News Extra they could only 5 years ago Run pmq in full done press conferences cos it's just so irritating the body.

Anything is this is and I hope Maggie will will northern confirms me but this is basically the same thing that a previous incarnation of LBC tried baby.

I'm obviously taken from a from a us us format.

I mean the BBC the truth is I think the radio stations has always been slow to didn't want to Asian Network today was a commercial version didn't look launch 5 live until talk radio was going so yeah this conflict as she say when there's really big sport and big news on at the same time.

It's not be on the Witcher from my from conversations.

I've had I think they would like five live to BH22 registrations and I think they've had conversations to try make that happen, but they regulatory challenges from imagine particularly from TalkSport with talksport2 and now with from global for LBC LBC News and I think that they have missed missed the boat where they are doing.

When is the new Alexa music app which is a bit different to other ones where you can query for more information and going to skip headlines and it may be a more non-traditional new server I like the fact that Alexa wasn't being used very much when you when I read the radar reports and I mean I've turned my Alex off and it says you know nobody is really it's not growing this via.


It's not when people fall out pen and paper diary to say now.

I think I think the people say about a third of Alexa to a third of listening on Alexa is to radio so it's like the second or third most popular things to do on the device, but interestingly it's 55 plus is that really do that about 60% of their listening to Alexa is to radio so play broadcast? I love it is a device cos it's another radio.

That's out there, but the Challenge for registration.

Alexa is there's no way to choose a station other than say the name so you need to have a brand to have consumption.

Ok, let's talk now about the latest shenanigans at MailOnline mailplus, where have they got that name from every class init a Premium service which includes a daily Radio Show and also Weekly podcast is being launched by the tabloids Matt basically souping up and making a bit more digital is how I understand.

It says as more in the out.

There's they're trying to cultivate their subscribers more than just give him a digital version of the paper is already there as well which is all available online.

I did some some google, searching a lot to different words together and found all their pilots and they've been practising this since May lots of different shows many bluesound announced that perhaps will not see the light of day.

So they audio similes is quite a big push for them and you peers is going to present this.

Radio show it's daily at a set time, so that's why it's not a podcast that's why it feels like maybe I don't know why the Thunder Bay radio station does he didn't know podcast podcast and this was Michael crick as well video series.

I don't know who make promises so much good quality free podcast content from right and left and whatever your prediction is I'm not sure Andaman hotel bed show and others build Desire desirable subscription-based as much as they will capsule like them.

And the other thing is this is really a big push by the editor Geordie Greig and he's put his deputy.

He's a very capable person Justin Davis on to it and so I'm sure they will have changes known you ever get some sort of thing right first time.

I maybe not second time, but I bet you they will go on free resources that it because they know they have to do something I know there'll be kind and I don't imagine Poldark will be listening now babe used their titles at and their radio stations to promote their podcast and still struggle to have hits of the last few years is LBC of showing this for example that if you have your branding in big letters behind a Provocateur then it will go on Facebook and even people don't click it and listen.

They see your brand.

I find it.

News UK good at that when it comes to talk radio and talkSPORT but I haven't done it with the time zones is a videos of the stuff of the sun and I wonder if MailOnline actually but I tried to do is just get instead of Andrew Pierce on Good Morning Britain just I'm sitting in front of a Daily Mail listen to it or not.

I think it's part of having an offer so he was a reason to subscribe if you never actually listened to it, but you know I will give my 495 for what it is, but I mean the daily.

That's what they want to be isn't the New York Times the daily is in a very well resort like 27 people that work on the day and also don't forget to the daily is it was always an accident you know you know they they start with a much more the team and suddenly found that there was an audience through it and they were making you know 8 figure sums out of it sticking with the male Maggie there one of the Likely suitors for the Daily Telegraph again for sale potentially be going to get a lot less than they paid for it.

64 something 42004 Jeff bezos, but I can't really see why wanted I think we're so there's some the former editor of The Daily Mirror whose name is escaping me and I can't believe it and what's it called national world and he's always up for a bargain so we don't really know the bike the boxes are so secretive.

You don't really know what they want to do either a off-loading a paper that lasts is just scraping into just under £1000000 a profit.

So yeah, I hope it goes to somebody responsible because it's a it's a sad movie paper.

I feel compared with the data graph used to be a proper newspaper in the 80s that used to do news properly and in fact that survived.

Under Max Hastings really and I think it's just lost its way to the person who who would I'm including it would buy it would feel that they can get a bargain and that they can turn it around as a business but on a fundamental basis, the newspaper model is now broken and is only going in One Direction and so from that from that perspective.

I'm still in my gym to who you know why anyone would believe at this point in time.

It is it is a business model that can can still reap rewards the dive in the prophets is astonish the way it really is somebody who's got very deep pockets to invest properly and heavily in the journalism and to erect a paywall so that people will pay for it alongside at advertising.

I think of the general public the brand does mean something when you have no idea or quality journalism with the right wing brexit loving.

Then it will be kind of right on tune and it has had some it does still break stores and wrapped in Twitter's of course a spectator which I'm absolutely certain somebody would buy it's always been a rich man's point really I don't know what what the future holds.

Why don't know what the prices we seen the way the Daily Express was subsumed into another group and it's really also what's been happening in the original pressing the obvious suitor would appear to be the Daily Mail who did want to buy because they are in the newspaper business whether they and under the current ownership and management really want to dive deeper into a very expensive probably lost making paper.

It is just another matter.

I hope some of my heart.

Hope that all the people in the shires who still likes to read the obituaries no rest of it.

I hope that somehow it does find a new enough major customers left to device.

I don't want something like it's over 260 million quid and it made up 1.6 million a military wives off my body any of it and that there is someone who wants to be able to have the prime minister and have tea, and it's only going to rain the influences the numbers keep on going down and and and I suppose I wonder whether the issue for the telly with an older demographic is yes, you would have thought you start to go and pay.

Will you be more online content but for an older demographic that's not an actual place to go for cos you got a really reinvent reinvent the brand to make it had to give it a much wider a pill in Ibiza at the moment.

I think it's almost virgins about the BBC and then news coverage.

When are they look at who reads the online versions of news? It's older people so it's not as if.

It's people over 64 something on the internet and I'm not actually accessing news other than the newspaper but the factors other people older people also like to my point about democracy if you really want to understand things.

Do you need to read manifesto after the publication because I want to see you on to your specialist subject to make sure there's time for this.

You've got 3 minutes to talk about Channel 4 launch genius creative Hub in Glasgow are it was a little snowman because in fact they were they are opening and national headquarters in Leeds especially true and it is a year after they announced their decision to do so there will be a largest number of people that 300 jobs have been created for the upcoming but at the moment.

They're still waiting for the headquarters that they've chosen which is this rather.

Building called the Majestic if you've ever been in the did you come out of the railway station in there? It is and used to have a number of things in the nightclub for another so they had to have their party in a in a very trendy bar, which was fine and that came along and it's quite clear that there's a whole move in that region is Bradford as well people from Newcastle they're all hoping that this can be a real moment of regeneration for the television and the media Industries there and there are a number of quite you know interesting things that Earth going through.

I will be going through least and then this week.

Of course.

They they trumpet of the fact that they are also opening properly and doors go now where number of being placed and of course the same will happen in Bristol so they're 3G can go too well actually.

And money into these places will that's the theory so for example the head of drama which is not one of the biggest areas actually and Channel 4 in terms of their overall output.

She is based in Leeds and she will go down to London I think what you have to remember about Channel 4 is only 850 people all the commercial side of it the business side Israel in London because they're 95% dependent on advertising if they don't run that side of it properly there isn't a Channel 4 but they are what's happened basically over the past 1015 is that mean a lot of cheating about regional Productions switch really have not been regional production Productions and social well-being know where you appear to be planting a production team to make a program but actually you import all the people who can do it.

The Metropolitan line, you'll have to show you know where people live now.

Yes and one of the first Big commissions which Channel 4 made in their new guys is going to be made expectations which is the big of the new indie rather being run by Peter Fincham and you know it's a rather sort of london-based Metropolitan who know what they're doing but with an art poster on a partner in Leeds so they have to find hits that are generated outside of London as that's what the big that's the big question for them now.

I think they're probably do it ok.

There is just time for a legendary media careers reviews for the first original production for Apple TV Plus and they're not Grace I'm going to give you the headline to a review of the morning show you just have to spot the missing word from the headline buzzing Wigan open you know the

To Maggie you'll say let's go his headline number one Jennifer Aniston can't save apple what and what debut drama the missing words with your name when you know the answer Steve Steve hit Newsroom and drama.

No rudderless and his number to fraud with what about what it is and who it's for Steve confusion Steve you're in the Independent I'm here is question number 3, it's all to play for Apple TV Plus Rises but doesn't what with star in new drama Matt yeah, that's so so close to me.

Conservatory cephas, won between review for Rolling Stones have apple underestimated, how hard it is to make telly yes companies going to a different sector people who watch television or listen to the radio think they can make it and guess what it's like hard and it seems but are you going to be watching Apple TV Plus because you're a long time.

We've been together already.

Have you no room in our wallets in our minds for another subscription you get it free with a phone? I've just got a phone so well.

I think you can you underestimate apple at your peril.

I think it's working to Amazon because it owns all of these devices and now if a smart TV it's obviously going to be embedded of course.

I'm not going to get everything right, but do I think they've got the deep pockets to change Netflix for their Netflix is very hard to change.

Yes, I do and it's

Another number that's coming over the hill and they all need all these big global companies seem to think they really really need to be in extreme television and that's what's happening if I think it's important to their business.

They will buy a massive studio to do it properly w209 when you've won the quiz congratulations.

I'm just say thank you to Steve Ackerman Maggie Brown and that digging if you like the media / donate and choose an amount to keep us going all year round I can only man the producer Rebecca Drysdale sherry and the media podcast until next time.

Hello, I'm Jessie Ware from table Manners the podcast now here with my mum died and we have a special bonus episode of table manners coming to you sponsored Sainsbury's taste difference autumn edition Range and check it out.

We talked to the fantastic broadcaster and entrepreneur Laura Jackson all about how to host fantastic listen now on your favourite podcast app.

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