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Read this: Media Business Podcast #7: Edinburgh TV Festival 2019

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Media Business Podcast #7: Edinburgh TV …

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How much you give and there's no regular commitment just hit the link in the description to support now welcome to media business podcast by Media business insight for publisher of broadcast and screen international media business insight today on sitting in the heart of Edinburgh for every August since 1976 to Edinburgh TV festival have been bringing more than 2000 movers and shakers for the Global Scottish capital for three days of navel-gazing hobnobbing and Kitchen TV ideas under the nose channel controller with a cash to splash and the power to make it happen in This podcast will be featuring a highlights of some of the key TV festival interviews with controllers and

Across the Next Three Days of the UK market and also hearing from one of the streaming Giants Amazon about it's plans the UKTV commissioning and a big Productions bring into the UK market themselves starting with Harrison control of BBC4 and Patrick Holland control of BBC2 interviewed in a joint session by Jackie long social affairs editor at Channel 4 you and what were the successes and the failings they're I call them that so we were starting from scratch with the Fallout 4 race across the world because we wanted ideas of real we wanted the producers to come to us and say maybe there isn't something which is going to cost this amount of money and be filled across this amount of days and and take a factual entertainment show crossed l.

The world in the way that did and we gave it a real Focus and I think that like giving it that Focus and same to produce this ok the ideas need to be in by this point and then we can put development money the ones that we really excited by and then we have a cut-off point in terms of when we were going to the commission that so the ideas were really exciting and really and did challenges and hopefully we did come on that and as I say it had really packed for us race across the world we commissioned at 4 not one but two more series and so I was I could not be more delighted by it's also in home in terms of its sense of purpose.

There's lots of talk at the moment battle entertainment and you know constructs and should we be putting people through particularly you know stressful situations race across the world is a skills-based challenge show which is very stressful, but it's also hugely filled with purpose your changes to fact then last year.

You know the the big call out this year is about.

I'm just wondering how did the people in this audience even begin to pitch to a channel which in your words you know you want to be contemporary and bold and diverse and get the average navigate that in terms of coming to you would idea to feature today.

So if you look at the channel this year and you look at your home made perfect which is an 8:00 show which uses vrt.

Is a way of looking into home transformation shows I think it's the best home transformation show for a long time on telly.

It's got a completely young vibe to it Angela Scanlon fantastic is the presenter of it and yeah the same time it appeals to all audiences, so I think you're earlier but produces wanting to see content on the channel.

I think I could make you know but I understand what that towed is inside the factory.

You know lots and lots of people try and make imitations of inside the factory for other channels and they fail because inside the factory has got that.

Town and that unique sense of mystery purpose that makes it BBC2 and again young audiences older audiences come to it.

So there's broadcasting brings people together can really bring people together and if you're looking at an 8:00 show and wondering what the tonality is then those two pieces are a very good place to start also remarkable places to eat that there are there you can bring in audiences young and old if you have that spirit and if you have that mischief as tone but also that BBC two grand is losing.

I'm audiences.

Isn't losing young audiences in in areas of the of the schedule, but as I said earlier BBC2 if you take it from July to July so forget about the Winter Olympics which slightly skewed the numbers the year before that was in the Ofcom report in the annual report then we've grown an Audience with grown on audience on BBC2 because of all.

Places I'm talking about you're not worried.

I'm worried in the sense that not I'm not worried in the sense that I think that we don't have the answers has broadcast television got an issue with young audiences of course it but one of the answers BBC2 particularly.

It's always been a channel directed out or greeted by if you like older people older posher people to tease but the whole of broadcast television is has got older posher people watching television the BBC 2 has not always been something which is only been folk singer older posher people that as I've been safely last 4 years BBC2 has got that unorthodox DNA that's why I came from in the 90s music but if you look at the BBC2 that I grew up with in the 80s and 90s then it was filled with bases like The Fast Show pieces like our friends in the North I think that with PCs like resolve editing.

And we pieces like Frankie Boyle's new world order that we have got that spirit that tone back just a couple of years ago topflight critics in the Guardian was still writing are the headline.

What is the point of BBC 4 this year broadcast digital channel of the year.

Do you think people now know what the point of BBC4 is home? I would hope so I mean I think it's a little unfair even 2 years ago for people to be asking that question I think that BBC4 is always had a very clear remit about what is what it's for and what it's about it.

It's about you know is a very distinctive offer a something very special something.

I'm very proud off which is Uno cerveza channel which is about diving deeper than any other British television channel does channel that culture is a channel about arts channel about music and it's a channel with a global perspective spoke about your upcoming AI night and the made by machine documentary BBC

Should it be absolutely again? I think that's something on tremendously proud of which is that we have the flexibility and the space to be able to do things and look at forms of programming the BBC inevitably Collins but we should also be and that I feel that the channel should be a testbed for otherwise new ways of making television.

I'm in the AI night was interesting.

I think it was a reassuring into far as I don't think any of us are under threat from being replaced by artificially intelligent schedulers in the near future as ways of exploring.

What are the boundaries of what television could look like and what shape can be very kind of the Drogheda from the drama perspective pieces of brilliant peaceful nature make me up by a young artist called Rachel Maclean which is an extraordinary kind of fever dream of.

Post Handmaid's Tale feminism that looks completely unlike anything else that you would see I'm contemporary British television businesses all over the world right now trying to reach delivering packages treating patients or running a global customer support centre your customers due to invent new ways to stay connected is a platform millions of developers Trust visit to learn more don't worry.

I've got a bag locally to support green projects that make the environment greener cleaner and more sustainable discover the power of green savings bonds at

You're listening to the media business podcast direct from the Edinburgh TV festival and I'm Gone by Alexa who's the managing editor of the commissioning in the Alex busy here lots of stuff happening lots of sessions.

What are you? What are you seeing? What some of the key themes all the main broadcaster well represented their controllers are all attending and most of them are speaking a lot of commissioner sessions including some of the newbies serious or Lexus turning brown from Amazon somebody keeps friends.

See you lot of bad news the Battle of fake news sexual documentary making editor-in-chief of broadcast magazine Chris Curtis to the session on the making a mega dog which was fascinating and it send it I think.

It's a current fake news Debate and the death of people have about the media that completing the current the current trends, and it's not just here in Edinburgh that's what the commissioners are asking for rossio, especially growing play the great big role in the growth of factual programming in documentary making but that's no it's obviously everybody's looking for the new love Island ratings ratings worries on in That's Entertainment space and also there's a lot more drama and demand for drama channel 5 now enter the drama room so be interesting to see what comes out of that you've got how many commissioners in the commissioning index Alex and now has 426 commissioners listed and we have a database of.

Productions UK and us and how much do you think is missing from the analysis that the controller sessions here is mostly the positive and not that much of an unlucky.

Yes, we have a team of Media researchers that make sure that they attend all the sessions and make sure that they get new intricacies out of what commission send controllers are looking for overall.

We are in daily conversations with the broadcasters and have all the updates that are required so I wouldn't say they're big shocking reveals for us here in Edinburgh Channel 5 in recent years a turned around performance and perceptions on the controller Ben flower is now punching well above it's weight and is increasingly popular with viewers critics and juices you like fries.

No nonsense tile and commitments respond quickly pitch ideas ratings anxiety and depression.

Sweet spot well, there is no sweets, but the real sweetspot group of young people yesterday.

It's so bad that you've got nothing to lose you can read the whole thing up without Without Fear of failure.

The most agonizing thing is when you've had a really successful run futures I meant to hit the autumn and the money is a bit tighter and the competition get tougher and you go up a business where we have to do even before you sleep well.

That's a really good it if you stop drinking at 9 and then you can have a you know I like a good bottle of water before you go to bed asleep.

Really well until people based in which in the TV industry.

Is coming up up on the train from London in a curry ideas? Can I think before I get to Edinburgh so you know you're reading the papers.

You're watching succession you're looking at the posters in the train station.

Is that an idea? Is that ok, Ben you got an hour's think of 10 royal documentary that you can do go now.

You know and then went so when you get home at night.

You can occur.

I seem to come down really quickly and set long is the audience and who they are changing that we are much less obsessed by young people.

We've changed his soul demos and when much more interested in upmarket people and a mature audience.

I think there is a place for young people on digital channels, but you know trying to snare a young person.

Nowadays is really god damn hard and I kind of

I have never really worried about the demo so much because I've always believe that especially in this new World Order weather so many challenges in so many options for people at the end of the day it just the content.

I'm not sure viewers really know what channel.

Is there watching what they know is content but there was a great series that depends talked about all that they read about about or and the Devonshire but definitely tomorrow at market definitely it is I think I'll probably as much more intelligent.

I think you look at Faces we have now you know the paxman's Esther Rantzen the Portillo's.

You didn't pay into this world.

I'm not saying there's work to be done.

It's alarming how you women there are out there that you can really bring to a child make a statement better really interesting Discovery the last few months so there's work to be done all that kind of stuff but definitely audience.

And I'm happy and that's so no longer that you're not chasing you you're not chasing anything you just have to do is it a good idea to do believe people will come.

How can we make it in a way that will make people find it like enjoy it be rewarded by it and then you do it.

I do we have huge desperately want a young audience and they want you know I don't know when you're going to go fishing and chucking stuff out there trying to track young people that cost a lot of money.

I don't have a million years ago when I really think about that money and pretty sure you're going to get a return on investment and you're going to be pretty sure that problem.

There's only a limited room for failure when you have a limited amount of money and you have all those stops to fill and your computing so you kind of you can take the odd with here and there and it could be a bit of a funny why do people like pus zit er.

Oh, you know hot yoga hot body whatever you can have this is for you in some form rather whether it's ratings or revenue or reputation for One theme running through every controller session is increasing competition for the ideas and telling even the BBC can't rest on its laurels now as you competing with the likes of Netflix and Amazon so what are Amazon's plans for the UK when it comes to commissioning and how will local commissioning fit the platforms global ambitions Georgia Brown Amazon director of European Originals was in the controllers chair interviewed by Asia has Iraqi a couple of years ago and I was the first.

Us hire for studio so prior to that everything was run out of this Angeles and then when we went global in 2016 really we had a different conversation with the audience at that point and it was very clear.

They wanted well local Originals in local language.

They love all us Originals they travel incredibly well around the globe but they really wanted to see something.

There was a bit more into their life resonated well with them.

So they bought me on board to setup the studios and there's a couple of days if that's if there's one is obviously physically setting it up and that's an awful.

Lot of work, so we've been busy recruiting as not as you know I'm getting the infrastructure of the team right and that's not just the creative team will come on to talk about them in a bit, but that's everything from production post production finance business affairs legal because if we truly have the local we can't just the operating creatively locally we have to make sure our deals at here to local laws local regulation regulation.

That's really important to us so that kind of phase 1 of setting up the team.

Very much emotion and we're nearly there.

I'm pleased to say and then I suppose face to of that is working at what our customers actually want.

What do the audience wants and therefore? What do we want? You guys to start pitching a switch? I know it and it's been a really fantastic journey trying to figure that out gentle he when she started summed it up really well, which was we're going to be the studio that created want to call home with the place.

They want to come back to and really what that means.

We have to be focused on two people in the world firstly.

It's our audience and we have to be completely obsessed with them what they want to watch.

What are they getting on television? What voice they need to see and then it's also the Producers you know what stories have they been itching to tell the years and years, but they just hasn't quite being the right home or the right slot all the money to backup that idea and she very much is leading off studio creatively everything we do starts with the creative and work backwards from that.

So people are often shops know we spoke about this when they come into the studio and picture ideas and we never the people that were.

Can you make it for this amount of money and delivering q419? That's just not the way we operate a show take as long as they Show takes to develop a relief that are different model and how are unique but we don't have the idea of slot that we have to work too so we can be quite fluid in the creative process which allows ideas to really comes to life in a way that maybe they wouldn't under different and in terms of your I suppose that the Netflix and like how would you say you differentiate from them? What's different about what you're offering.

I think are setup on a model is incredibly different for a start you know Amazon it's not just an escort service and if you're looking at video alone.

It's so much more than that we have tea board.

We have channels.

We have prime Direct what is a business we offer so much more as I said earlier a creative canal come to us.

We just a topic or a genre an idea that they're not quite sure what it is.


We can sit there and have that discussion is this TV is?

Movie actually is it a clothing line? Is it that you have to do often do a soundtrack? I don't know there's so many different ways you can work within the Amazon business.

That's not just this kind of S4 streaming rude.

I think that offers just a variety of Richards for creators coming to work with us, so you're not offering people are kind of a single model.

It's a very bespoke sort of deal in terms absolutely different needs absolute that comes back to carnivore or mission.

I suppose which genus out which is we're not the service.

That's going to come to the market with hundreds of new commissions every month we're going to be so bespoke and we're going to be so focused in we're not doing the volume game with very much about you were bigger better and again that allows us to give ideas a room to breathe you answer develop into what they need to be without having to 42 Sutton slots or genres or timelines to be beholden to a business research for the commission.

Specialises in US commissioners in controllers all the time, what's the difference between when they're looking for a commission in the US vs.

The UK how they operate and go about it.


I guess a big difference between the US and UK is is is volume and the amount of projects that are in the market, but also advised in the market.

So it means that she's quite a lot of place to go with different ideas and if it doesn't fit one.

There's always kind of room for it to go in the UK could have a smaller Paula broadcasters.

Take your idea to but I guess the main difference could be there's an agent system which can often be restricted for also beneficial because the the agent could really breakdown for your lot things that you don't understand every Circumstance that can be used for they can be used for just mainly translating the language and kind of the nuances between what happens over there and kind of the UK system.

Sometimes you can get in without an agent and it can just kind of work case-by-case.

We're quite lucky at the moment because the you are so kind of recalling out for UK producers in both factual drama.

I think there's a kind of way of looking at the UK's specialist in factual and robber and so you have a lot of us networks kind of queuing up on the big producers in the UK who's bringing out noteworthy know why these things so it is a good time really so kind of take your idea up to you ask would definitely on the rota from the controller sessions and concessions is Netflix why do you think they're not here? They probably don't need to be there in boxes a full enough as it is that's director programmes for Channel 4 is still a relatively new boy in the world of TV and it needs job is background is news but he's now running across general channel where he needs to deliver creative and commercially successful shows.

In drama and factual and has Channel 4 move to create a new national HQ in Leeds what will that mean for those pitching ideas broadcaster Anita and at asked the questions the creation of leaves as being national HQ created pubs in Glasgow in Bristol this is the biggest changing channels history, how much of your life is Celtic's here at the moment overwhelmingly excitement now.

I think we've done a lot of the tough part of this which has been working out which roles we got to move the last 2 months to the people we've been attracting.

So we've got a glass will have one of the most.

Respected commissioners around she's gonna be a headache daytime and head head of Glasgow got such a fantastic documentary maker and passionate passionate advocate for Bristol Bristol fabulous squam Arthur Lloyd S4C drama commission is responsible for Welsh why it's like keeping Faith terrific appointments in Leeds we've already got an extraordinary calibre of people coming in and we've got rolls with we'll wait and decision-making influence.

The challenge over the next 6-months is going to be actually figure out as a work integrated commissioning teams that are spread over 4 locations.

How had a meetings actually look had a week when we'll see each other.

Are you irritated with this? I'm not moving to LA from London to Leeds

No, I think it's a fair.

I think it's a fair challenge.

I think that I mean the reality is the larger Army commissioning team is still going to be in London I'm going to have to be across all our bases some of the time.

I'm going to be travelling every week both Alex and I will be travelling every week tell you where glam my depth.

She will be some next week's so I think you'll be plenty of coverage at our level book.

We've got a lot of people's heads of departments.

We got the wonderful Sinead rocks managing director Leeds dynamic and inspiring figure we're going to have a very silly figure running out operation the creative.

It's true to say the most channel stuff would rather take redundancy than move.

What does that tell you?

I'm not sure what it tells everyone that one of the and if I just that my world and she's a commissioner b.

One of the problems that we've got is that commissioning editors jobs senior jobs that people quite late now careers standard generally got family often got kids and they're quite in bed.

It's much harder for them to move if we had a wider population in commissioning of twenty-somethings you were single and we have lots more movers, but we have got some people moving and by the way as I've said before if if we had your 60% of people going you'll be asking me why we are hiring more local talent.

This is not for me from Leeds Live website to hear what you think.

They are saying in a huge win for the city.

We proved are cells that develop a tech-savvy creative Blossoms

That would be a perfect laws on home for a major broadcaster, so you can understand why the news that most Channel 4 star for chasing redundancy it said a relocating of such a Kick in the teeth.

I just haven't encountered that you at 1 in Leeds a lot and I just as a talk to the Leeds Indies at talk to Civic people in in in Leeds have been involved in in the bed.

That is just what we are hearing is universal Enthusiasm about what the rabbit channel 4 is going to do for the city for the area excitement about the Indies are open past has moved up there.

I just I just don't think that flies.

I can only imagine.

I've never had such a lofty position and never will but commissioning I can imagine it's a bit like herding cats the 80s.

How are you going to manage this unusual touched on this a little bit Bristol creative hubs Leeds are you going to be thinking of what you might be doing we're going to have to be.

The moment from organisations that do operate across split locations fortunately my boss Alex has run business across multiple locations and there's a bit about this but we we are investing in an surprising to see you at the same things that I used to be in in my old life at the BBC where you would frequently have Manchester Cardiff on teleconference to the same meetings.

We gonna have to get used to do it all about we already have a head of Sport now drama based in Leeds run out regularly turn on heating and we're just trying to work out what the right rhythm of actual physical connection is because we can't all be technology.

We are all going to have to get together at the time.

So we're working out.

It's going to be in London summer time in Leeds some of the time.

But we learning I wish I will spectacles because I was moving into my nose and look over the top.


Can you give us a definite opening day for Leeds

should may be answered this it's it's

October please right now that we have got a kind of temporary space and office right now and imminently we're going to move into another officer Leeds pictures are very boring for a year while we revamp the Majestic old nightclub in Leeds going to be a permanent base but not for a year's time.

We will be we are up and running in Leeds right now.

We will have a number of commissioners leaves in the autumn BBC1 the BBC's flagship channel and the UK's most watched channel, but what is its controller Charlotte more planning and what areas of the schedule are up for grabs with increasing power of the iPlayer and soon to launch britbox.

What does the growth of on-demand mean?

Commissioning and scheduling strategy newscaster Tom bradby, ask the questions for us.

I think that's a clear what the BBC's place in the market is I think it's to tell stories with British talent about subjects and issues that you know the very diverse Communities of Britain are interested in that makes.

I think a very unique Focus for British broadcasters that can really kind of talk to that is not driven by commercial imperatives and ads on the way, they will say Range and breadth and making sure that we cover with that possible the channels becomes really important, but I'm quite sure that they will be in the newcomers to a new world then get overtaken by others learn from them when I think we're going to see seismic change in platforms in the next two years and how how I'm just now about how I think channels on iPlayer work together and I think the fact we have tongue is so powerful for all of us the fact that it's like almost you're using your channels to market that content.

The other way that is is I plan obviously of Commons just give us approval to have those 12-months will give her off her and for us to try and help audiences find that offer a service that region-specific for a moment because I think we talk to while ago when I want sex education on Netflix the thing I found most extraordinary about things one there.

Was you can clearly tell it was someone in the UK but there was no idea where there was almost no specific cultural reference no sport nothing actually placed as English and I don't think anyone can be as regionally specific as we will need and want to be and I think that's incumbent on this as British Broadcasting to do that sound the BBC is absolutely at the heart of that so.

I think the sensor placed a sense of authenticity.

I actually think that's what made many of our shows so incredibly successful, and I think some white Gentleman Jack is absolutely rooted in truth in that sense.

What is really quite specific 22 and listed life so I think that's it's great strength.

I'll probably say the same to happy Valley and say the same for years and years.

I think specific is incredibly powerful than audiences really loved it.

Do I think everything else to have that no, we're always play different ways of telling stories, but I'm but we're always looking for diversity of voice looking for stories.

We haven't heard before or subjects with perhaps visited before but with telling them with a new perspective so I think I think there's so much choice.

I think it is it might be telling one thing is incredibly exciting for created to think it has my people to stand out and I think that sensor play Stand and having your own also check will become increasingly important.

For people wanting to pitch to you any kind of idea is what you want.

Just in general changing as a result of these things we talking about or is it pretty similar to What You've Always look? No I think it's opposite changes every year because we have such a wealth of of good programming out there is more incumbent on us to stand out and feel that we doing something you and I think whatever would take risks and where we venture into territory.

Haven't gone before or a brave with the storytelling actually usually you get massive audience rewards, because I think like all of us we all want to watch before because there's so much to me.

I don't need to watch something similar that's not to say that those big Love shows whether it's strictly or MasterChef also, it's not to say but you are not constantly refreshing them and we spend a lot of time of the Christian team thinking about those big size and how can we bring them to new audiences and I think last year's Silent Witness

The largest 1634 audiences that we never had before I think that was because we've had all the past series on iPlayer and so there was a kind of real.

I think we brought a new generations in the same way that I think when you know the much-anticipated Gavin and Stacey land is Christmas III know that all those you and that's 10 years and I know that was going to be new generations of experience in Gavin and Stacey first time at the helm as one of the industry's most experienced controllers Kevin lygo.

So what his plans to succeed in a market audiences are falling and competition has never been tough on Sky's Kay Burley the questions team 13.3 million of UK households have signed up to pay TV services that's Risen from 11.2 million in 2017 to present broadcasters.

IPlayer and your own home as well of course.

I haven't watched it would appear.

They are struggling to keep pace with these friends.

Why didn't I think an extraordinary amount of television that viewed is still live and from terrestrial television 82% is still live on the night.

Honestly sometimes get a little bit of processed with television in the sense that everybody watch lots and lots and lots of television, but it doesn't mean it's the most important thing analyse a lot of people after holidays work whatever it is.

What's on tonight at the overnight sister? Yeah, they're really important and anyone getting good overnight.

So they're not important and so I can proudly say that.

Even if they're going down there still a really good indication of our popular program is how many to watch it so withdraw more immortal you see the overnights have generally gone down.

I mean I bet 5 years ago if Charlotte or I will ask what you think Tom is going to get we wouldn't have thought they'd be you know for 4 million plus quite good because the ketchup is huge now.

We've just tried our first BBC have done it before be easier for them living but the the the water is recommended it is placed on the Wii episode 1 channel and then all available on her and we were very serious really as an experiment to see what.

And sure enough a much larger number than normal went ahead and over the week between episode 12 have watched 23456 episodes and then you look to see how many people have watched it before it went out if it's just me and it was well over a million and so actually is fine our challenges.

How do we make money out of those people if they're watching it on a service weather on tonight at the 599 britbox is a is is a different theme and a wonderful new content on there.

There will be some new content but I think I think with the nine months to watch britbox with repeats of borrow that I can watch on ITV yeah, because there's a lot more to it than repeats of marvellous.

They are I know this is going to have the box is many things boxes us looking for a new revenue stream.

That doesn't cannibalise advertising revenue that isn't just off the back of the success of our Studios business and on our global production doing well, but you know everyone knows that advertising is challenged and and an uncertain future so boxes about subscription television we all know that viewers and ourselves is lovely to watch shows on there.

You know you choose what you want when you want how you want you later and that is really pleasurable and so we want to be in that business as well because we're we just want to be with you all that party.

Why it won't we don't believe cannibalize are in service.

Obviously arrival to Netflix and Amazon has been billions and billions.

This is a way to use the Archives of the BBC and ITV and no one of the things.

They don't do very much at all but this.

Full of yes famous old chairs from the past from the BBC and ITV there's so much to watch now and your availability to watch hasn't essentially watch television in the evenings between you know 6 and 11 if you think of what you have watch a take a successful drama gets 5/6 million viewers that means 40 million people haven't seen it and I then I've always how many times I say it's really good and people don't come later.

What's a radiator and make them it would be I know they enjoy it and they stick with it and so when it's one of the things that will be the word-of-mouth about who did you see that I missed it whatever what it will always be there.

Until the day we die at the Edinburgh TV festival my thanks to the team at the festival to help me with this podcast am I thank you for listening in another edition of the media business podcast in a few weeks time so hit subscribing your podcast have a choice and tell your colleagues to give us a listen remember you can catch up with all episodes of Media business podcast that will cost you can also access more than 400 commissioners who are commissioning index service the media business podcast is a PPM production the media business insight produced by Rebecca Drysdale Sherry goodbye.

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