Read this: #113 - Cash Boost for Children’s TV; Global’s Billboards; Gender Pay Gap Redux

Love This podcast support this show through the a car support a feature.

It's up to you.

How much you give and there's no regular commitment just hit the link in the description to support now.

Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm a cash injection bring children back to TV we discussed which face 80s pop culture is getting a lift the second ever gender pay gap survey but makes for uncomfortable reading and globals billboard takeover plus will play there were the stars in the media quiz it's all the come today's Media podcast managing director of indeed gold Wala it's fair as Osman hello flat at the moment.

Name all set up ok and making her Media podcast debut.

It's broadcasted Jane Garvey welcome to the show.

Thank you very much honey the first voices be first Voice on 5 Live I believe I was the 25th anniversary depressed.

I think I didn't involve me and celebrations this year.

I think it's like they want to pretend.

I never existed because I'm bit a bit Radio 4 on a bit tragic so I noticed I was kept out of I didn't get any cake as we know everyone can afford me didn't get an invite to Salford so they go did tweet about how did I said I wasn't to be around for five live 25th birthday.

It's quite a lot since.

I'm not just in the sentence, but this news and sport.

That feels like something from 25 years ago if you want your News Network now.

We have let's break for the live football continues to be my favourite radio station.

It is station.

I listen to more than any other and I'm sure I'm not in a minority.

I am interested in live football commentary and brexit and everything else going on in the world and I'm afraid I've had that they did do that on the day of the birthday was I think I think it might have been on the radio today podcast they played a bit of audio from the drinks party.

That was held at Broadcasting House on the morning at 5 started Adam possibly stuffy woman from one of the broadsheet newspapers is asked what she thought and she said something like I was after hearing a launch Breakfast Show which I did with Peter Alan she said I really I don't know who's going to listen and I just love you sound.

And I am absolutely convinced there a millions of people like me with a really with a broad range of interests that includes Sport live sport politics international news.

I want it all until I get it all on 5 live sport extra.

It feels like without kind of sex angry sycophantic feels like a proper public service and in in era.

Where is breaking all the time and things are happening all the time? It's actually quite comforting to be able to know the place.

That's shouting 24-hour news on the TV that you can click on and you know that you'll be getting the story that's breaking right now.

What what is interesting is that sometimes? I find it you turn on Radio 5 Live you're not sure if your football or if you're going to get what's going on in in the House of Parliament right now and that kind of whole understanding about and it's interesting about talking doing a talkSPORT and talk radio is alright and spitting out and so's.

Bounce against each other is is kind of part of the charm of it, but I do think it's interesting about how it is a real useful wherever you are the marriage in front of the TV on front of the TV you're closer to live news that can be offered and properly edited in a way that Twitter or you know what are things that we have been jumping to in the last few decades actually 5ly provide something that you can cut through all that and get what's going on live in the moment which was another great thing can a plug from local radio won't you 45 live before you couldn't hear me anywhere other than by coming to Worcester where in fact I was Broadcasting at the time.

So they must have been able to get hold of cassettes of my seminal work.

Yeah, so I wasn't plugged I applied.

About me it's about me but plenty of other people would like to take credit for plucking them, but rubbish I applied and got through and was selected and then they also spin this idea that Peter Alan and I was some kind of dream team that will put together I just couldn't find anybody else in the end and Peter was he knows this he wasn't the first choice to do the breakfast was just kind of God I think honestly a lot of people sticking on at the Beginning will be a terrible failure and then we can get some good people in once you've established the network in a couple of months time that career progression is kind of unprecedented now isn't if you're listening to this and you working BBC local radio and you'd like to think one day.

I could be on here for National that just be just won't happen.

Do you think you're right there? And I think that's a real shame and I think Radio 4 also has to look at it look at itself a bit here.

I did some programs weird BBC Radio Sheffield and woman's some sort of simulcast and working too.

And the brilliant mid morning presenter that got there is called Paulette Edwards sorry, she's at least as good as almost any other presenter on Radio 4 and 5 Live and I think you're right.

I'm not sure how this world.

I going to get onto national radio because once you're on National radio people don't they don't move and they just don't move and it's it wrong and I think Radio 4.

We are at the moment trembling in anticipation of our the announcement of a new controller and I think the new controller Radio 4 announcer 24 people I think they are going to have to make some big bold and Some Might Say difficult decisions about the network and would have left.

Setting up that's not necessarily a good thing I can having local voices that become very familiar and those places and it's not always seen as a job application for National radio, show is you know I would like it a lot closer to that and there is somebody interesting things happen in radio with no Tiffany who's now doing the Radio 1 rap show and it's Daisy who's doing the KISS Breakfast Show now after they've been to be like a bit of a round-robin going on with moving to Radio 1 Ireland moving to beats 1 radio and and that's kind of allowed an opportunity for new Talent to come through and those guys have been doing stuff online a lot of meeting with their own radio station in their own bedrooms and heard via a casting absent and via social and then that's really kind of Lead them to jump onto the national stage which I think of the different pass through and I think it's quite exciting but I don't think we should I really wish this misselijk radio as being a an opportunity.

Just yourself what I would say about local radio is its place.

I've worked the hardest at because local radio presenters work hard.

And and I don't wanna lot of money.

I mean you were talking about people who might well do a 3-hour breakfast show in the morning possibly now double-headed they probably drive.

They will be driving a desk.

They might well.

I'm having buy used to work 16 hour days out in Herefordshire chatting to a Wi-Fi in the middle of nowhere.

I have never have turned on the Christmas lights in Hereford champion, Hollybush sign which have been stolen slightly.

I think I think like a really long if O'Grady as well, so hard work is hard work.

Let's move to the world of kids TV where the British Film Institute hopes to bring back home-grown children's toy.

To the main channels as they're still coming them with an injection of cash prize.

What's the deal? What's happening kids TV for a long time is more recently happened is the junk food advertising has that law has meant that there's been a retraction of kids content on on the commercial channels, because I can't find advertisers to effectively funder so the government.

I think it's probably the states of septum and said that we need to do more beyond just the licence fee to help British kids content which is a very good thing in principle and that hopefully allow particularly the non public service broadcasters to be more tempted into the in kids content back onto the main channels and analogue bit more particularly the British tone of voice Roland just doing you all a good thing however.

I would say that there is a bit of a concern that this puts in another layer of your ocracy and I've got a little bit concerned about ideas are no longer commission just

Target those ideas are there also been commission on how many hurdles and hoops to jump through to get funding from the four different places and it's kind of almost everything that indie film are produced when you're always going to try and find money here there and everywhere to get something made rather than the idea itself going through Wi-Fi launching the young audiences content fund it's worth 57 million-pound.

It's coming from the UK government's contest.

There's a bit of space for public service audio for children as well as 3 million from the one that mean it's not having that hold the public service fund as it were and and you can go and apply for money or is that will get grants somebody not sure exactly the right terminology about how old do you need to demonstrate that it's 50% funded by a Channel 4 the other 50%

Isn't this well? I thought it was but I thought as well the BBC CBBC and CBeebies do the job and do well.

I remember I've got Media memories never forget the morning at CBB CBB started because I like it sold that they will only one was born before CBeebies but we were there on the morning at 6 a.m.

And I just went thinking my life has just got easier.

It was Bliss I was actually from then on but it was substantially easier.

It was one particular program, which I'm talking to it.

You never come outside of ever seen ok, Lynda Baron the actress who was in Open All Hours original version with Ronnie Barker

If she's looking OK that was she played episode of figure she was a dog owners mum know she was a dog owner the dogs called Pippin and they used to fly around in a plane exploring things it's called come outside and BBC only made twelve Editions over but they did some fun together including on the best programs have ever seen about Britain's sewage system come outside bring it back 12 episodes.

You still remember it that's the thing with kids telly is absolutely repeat this.

I mean there's only 50 of whatever but that's kind of fine because the kids only watch it for 6-months yeah, and I think it's incredibly valuable as well because the Nostalgia it brings and I really think that the end of the inherent value.

No, I mean you Dad

It's like the value of CBB CBBC is wrong with a pizzas my point there is there is nothing wrong with the pizzas.

No because I have no issue with that there were a few the refuse things about only having the BBC and CBeebies being the only place for kids content we need to make sure that they say and more diversity and what was seeing as a lot of kids are going towards YouTube and Netflix and Amazon which is a very merry the main all certainly not as British as some of the things that we hold very beloved and the second thing and when I would like you is the most important thing.

I'm on the bath the kids committee and we have the kind of store that sits on a very passionate about this is content for teenagers and so this contest will find goes up to 18 year old and I've been saying for quite a while that audiences at fifteen sixteen seventeen eighteen older than the CBBC BBC audience are widely ignored by most broadcast as you don't have any content for those guys.

Darren content, so the only time you've got to influence them is before they are able to speak out their own content and that's why it really does matter that I think in particular BBC does continue to produce high-quality and British you're really right to emphasise that British shows with British values that we all agree with and we we can celebrate the broadcast Channel 5 Channel 4 and this is commercially international.

I mean that's clearly set in England yes, but there aren't the right there are clearly gaps in their issues around kids television in the UK It's shrunk and shrank significantly there is a repeat sidemen which you can repeat all of stuff for kids, but there is a time when it becomes tired and old and you need to make sure we continue your fresh there were a lot of challenges around kids TV and and around the commercial.

Particularly when there has been laws of come through around junk food advertising which is on the hall the good thing we need to do what we can to to look at childhood obesity which is a massive issue, but we need to find ways I think that's what is fund is going to do that the tricky is how are you going to navigate it all in a world where used to the usually just got to commissioner get an idea commission than not have to worry about speaking to 15 which this could end up creating to commission because I'm talking a lot of the teenage end of things but at the school end of things needed in place and I steal you to know that comment so there was there was programming that was made at that time CBBC was on BBC2 and had lots of attention which is why you have the whole playground Gathering around to watch one particular program is why that nostalgia.

How much is now go on CBBC is now digital channel which again is probably a good thing but there is created differences of in the market and you know we've been out on ITV used to have CITV again at a block on the main channel is this you did the Landscape has changed significantly from when we are going up and I think that we are always nostalgic about kids TV but if you went back and looked at it now is very different to what to what we have and we were growing up for this important.

I'm actually watching on Amazon Prime at the moment with my 3-year old reruns a Fireman Sam which actually came on here just a few years off at the right but the charm of it the slow pace of it.

It was amazing watching it now.

I mean I mean they need a bigger department.

That's what Sam before he goes to bed.

It's so much more relaxing calm.

Has been made now which is like a massive thing Park right you see me if you want if you want slow pace television ok? That's low TV 5th generation.

It's incredible and my little daughters of tests of it before bedtime TV magazine publishing now where the face has relaunched well as a website but from September as a quarterly print publication.

It was an eclectic mix of politics and Pop Culture in the 1980s of course legendary covers with Kate Moss Grace Jones The Stone Roses but eventually as a print title.

They are going to have a print version of face again and I'm going to go out and get a copy of it.

I'm not interested.

I will not look at it online it not me.

I'm afraid that means nothing to me.

I want a own it.

I would have look at it.

I want to feel it.

I would have cherish it cos I have a very special relationship with the face by the way, I should point out that I'm probably the

Lightly reader of the face when I started buying it as an incredible an exceptionally nerdy and unfashionable teenager the face meant an absolute an extraordinary amount to me no I I I think because it represented possibility and a life away from the obviously but I chose to see is the Desperate tedium of my suburban existence.

I wasn't daring enough to do will be any of those things I read about us or in the face, but I loved being able to get a window on that world and I should also say that apart from obviously children and that kind of thing standing in Smyths in Southport and seeing a copy of the face and finding out they printed my letter will be one of the best moments of my life when it's nice to have that kind of excitement isn't 4 hours for me.

It was in the 90s and I forgot to bed now whether he actually.

Excited about it like Jamie's that's maybe not good news for a publication.

That's all about fashion and targeting young people for me.

I would rather didn't come back because because of exactly that I think that it had a it was an artefact of the time and it does a bit of danger that you bring these things back and some of you dilute how how impactful it work.

This is a really crowded now and they're a lot of magazines that didn't exist back when their face is a big deal.

You know there's Wonderland is Hunger magazine big thick quality publications 75% advertising and fashion advertising and you know the couple of articles here and there and it's all about the front cover because that's what you put in coffee table and that's what it's there for you know it has a bit of valuable and the first edition.

I'm sure we'll do very well be welcome back to the phase will be interesting to know it's still around a year later.

Harvey any adverts in it whatsoever and all these magazines that existed before hand were much thicker but now that he's struggling to get advertisers and you know there's six £7 for a copy of the magazine which is a lot of money for a monthly publication and so in the fashion world there does seem to be you know still a market to to get advertising, but it is very crowded now the days without their fingers out there Wonderland is out there.

There's a lot of these things a lot of choice then.

There's a lot choice for advertised as well that makes with kind of reportage infashion because the face that my letter is in which one with Terry Hall on obviously.

I'm going to go back to have three sentence thing about r e o Speedwagon being shit and auntie English better than Americans basically was and I didn't use my name.

I use some attitude.

It's pathetic, but I was 17 and this was.

Very big moment for me, but what was it about that that particular edition was it was mixing footage of a report from Bob Marley's funeral and send us fashion and the cover of that there was Terry Hall from the Specials was on the cover.

I remember this cos I looked did look last night and it will just one issue or a collection of magazines like galdem magazine and you know which we looked at south Asian representation that much more highly focused on a particular demographic and they've done as brands become very stressful.

My feeling.

Is is that the business plan around this isn't actually the magazine the businessman around this is to create a brand that you can then sell t-shirts around that you can then hopefully get a

You know Netflix in the face presents whatever that reportage pieces which is interesting in a BuzzFeed have had mixed success with that sort of thing vauxmead.

You have had mixed success with that sort of thing but I think there is a valuable brand that exist there but it doesn't I don't I'll be interested to see it really connect with the same under 25 demographic that the original face because I don't think they know what it is.

All that exist and the on that now and have had existed online for awhile.

They do really well.

You know I'm doing some teaching when it must be students.

They talking about now cos it's nice that guy them and they're really understand what the face is it was like an old piece of nostalgia other stop done all the stuff for garden and they always really interesting contributors and they do get some good stuff and it's stuff that I must be honest the programs like mainstream programs on my cars.

Would a struggle to get those voices actually advantage of the face as a brand new never heard of it if you're 25 all ever is that the values that it stands for are quite zeitgeisty still on their kind of sexually androgynous in the love DIY fashion and Instagram and like I said I think that it has a very powerful brand for people that remember the magazine back little being published.

It's been on hiatus for what 15 years or something like that which is Which is the fourth generation shift and if they want to cut a track that audience back to them again.

I think they're gonna struggle if they will track the Nostalgia audience people that listen to 15 years ago, then then they may have a limited amount of success already in the queue.

Impressed investors this week by increasing their subscriber numbers by 9.6 million in the last 3-months mounting competition from Disney an apple as we talked about on this show a lot.

Do you think Jamie Netflix strategy will continue to work in the face of that competition? It's a mystery is Netflix everyone's got it and I was coming here.

I look actually watch anything on Netflix for as long as I can remember so I looked it was on offer for me this morning and apart from the BBC documentary something I will watch sorry there wasn't turn on talking about me personally there was there was nothing that grab me but then I don't have a lot more time in my life for more binge-watching.

Where do you do a binge watching? I don't really binge-watch very much and I don't have a lot of time to watch telly and it would never be my priority so I do watch stuff, but I'm off to watch the television watch one episode forget to watch any more new shows like victim and the widow when they saw the first episode of the victim never watched any more it was you thought it was going to be.

And then the Crown will comes out in the autumn Christmas time.

I probably will watch that Netflix that this model is successful because well, am I understanding is the reason of subscriber numbers of increasing because they've been making progress in the countries that didn't have Netflix before they hit saturation points in in the UK and us.

I'm sure there's a little bit of the Grove that generally if you want Netflix you gonna have had it by now there, but when it comes to places like there's an interesting thing about launching in India and that's a kind of growth area for a lot of the streaming Spotify or it's or it's Netflix and there the whole different tactic about your mobile first strategy and making things for smaller Screens and making things available across 3G and 4G networks.

That Dave always been the first at and that's really really compelling and I forgot your question what your branding.

How many viewers they've got left so now so they started to release figures around certain shows and I've also the council searches are not getting enough figures.

There is movement there.

There's rumours that they're trying a top-10 feature of the top 10 most watched shows on Netflix too kind of promoting that space, but my favourite game is still looking at other people's Netflix it's a little bit like when he was house in the CD collection if you log into people's Netflix it's a different completely different set of shows from what you get based on their viewing habits and I always think that's what you can tell my mum and dad Netflix programme is very very different to mine and that's always a lot of fun because I had a lot of Mexican soap operas, which I didn't know you can get on that there's so much stuff that you don't know because it's not talking to you.

Listen, they are very good at kind of making sure that that programmatic advertising are not enough and I've got as well.

So they have got me absolutely hung out to dry over a barrel and they've got my money.

So they can do what they like with it and they are doing really making loads of content for other people to consume, but you want to pick on this.

I regularly for as and sort of teas to head to the launch apple and Disney entering the streaming service world as something that could be a game-changer and I am happy all the choices.

We know what they're doing now been taking roundabout by Disney in apple and I've got some thoughts about it, but certainly feels fairly obvious if you've got children you are going to subscribe to Disney plus.

It doesn't matter if you got Netflix all you got Amazon ready.

It is looks like an

This incredible job because their back catalogue.

Yeah, I mean every Disney movie ever released which is the name of other platforms, so they also unlocked the Disney vault what you can never buy all the Disney DVDs at the same time because they created built-in scarcity which is part of the whole original DVD and VHS attractive Disney had that's gone you can now do that you watch every Marvel movie you can now do that they own Star Wars they got content coming out with one with the world's biggest franchises and they are you know going to be able to connect to Annalong side that they will be done.

It's massive deal with Sky as well and your nachos is going to be on that platform and they can be doing stuff at Hulu Amazon still unclear but purposely speculating if you want my two pence 79p whatever you want to look at.

I I think that what Apple strategy is is and uniden particularly in the UK it's worth looking at what ITV and channel 40 doing so ITV and Channel 4 a boat launching subscription arm.to there on demand players britbox is obviously coming which subscription service as well and what it seems to be happening.

Is is the applicant be launching all these programs to move people into their TV app and therefore I subscribe to OL4 and ITV and it becomes effectively a shop front so I think the strategy isn't the same as Netflix or evening d.

The same as Disney I think what Apple strategy seems to be is open our TV app which exists on all the devices that you have including Samsung TVs in LG TVs you will see Jennifer Aniston and Steven Spielberg and all the great things which will draw you into that app and then when you come to make a decision about whether or not you want to subscribe to britbox or Hulu or even maybe Disney plus you would do that via the Apple TV app and then they will get a 30% cut of that subscription which

Very very very successful app store model has been and I think that's where we're going to see their strategy moved towards.

I think you need to look at an Apple TV as more as a distribution and shopfronts strategy Netflix via the App Store you cannot do that via the iPhone Apple the iPad out.

I've made it very difficult to like they don't want to share the revenue with their Spotify have done the same thing but if apple concurrent ice partners like Disney and I like Channel 4 ITV and britbox and all these guys.

That's a very lucrative amount of money that they will be able to turn over Month by Month and integrate different strategy to put Netflix doing a Fireman Sam Joan what's their own original content but I think the way to look at it when you buy your phone from Apple there are original apps on your phone which are three.

For the benefit of literally held up his phone then regarded as the best for dados utilities but then push you towards purchasing other apps via app store anything a similar strategy will probably be followed, but I need to make sure that they have the best possible content so that you do press that Apple TV button and get into that universe ok.

We'll be back with more media news after this hello.

I'm Jessie Ware from table Manners the podcast with my Mum hi Mum we have a special bonus episode of table manners coming to you sponsored by Sainsbury's taste difference autumn edition range go and check it out.

We talked to the broadcaster and entrepreneur Laura Jackson all about how to host fantastically listen now on your favourite podcast app.

Partners in the UK to support the pandemic response reduce the spread of covid-19 Miss information on all platforms fullfact in the UK to develop multilingual Media literacy campaigns that provided millions of people with tips as putting false news get the full story about media policy may have noticed we are putting out a few more episodes this year and that is all thanks to you and you're very generous donations to this show every time you played a piece of money to this show we play it back into the podcast well.

That's recording bonus episodes of finding you so help us make great new episodes all year round by taking out of voluntary subscription if you would be so kind just head to the media podcast.com.

Tell me the news in brief are still with me and let's Talk pay gap glad you're here Jane analysis by the press Gazette has found an image of third of UK media firms have seen their gender pay gap actually increase over the last 12-months and sadly needless to say not in favour of the lady is Jane what's going on here.

We know what's going on.

It's been going on since time itself began.

I see that I could hang on and boron about this for ages and I don't want to do that, but I think it's worth repeating a few sort of obvious call fact that the gender pay gap is not the same as equal pay for a start Women's Lives and men's lives are not the same there companies that have apparently very bad gender pay gap that might be paying men women the same they got to pay men women showing for doing the same work that is actually.

Of course where we get into very complicated territory and people lose their minds trying to work all this up.

Yes, so, why are there more men in senior roles getting more money because Women's Lives and men's lives working lives tend to differ slightly when it gets to stage of families starting to have kids couple starting her kids we know that what do we do to change the mindset that it's usually the woman who spend the time at home and I also got a bear in mind some women want to be at home.

I actually was at home myself and I worked part-time so that I could do bits of that and bits of what I wanted to do in the workplace so women make these decisions and sometimes they make them for very good reasons and I would absolutely back them up what we need to do.

Obviously as change change a sim to simply change the working culture and make it easier for men to feel free to make the same.

Some men won't want to make those decisions at all of course, but there will be some who are actually really desperate to be at home for longer at to be around more for their kids when they are young so I presume to allow those women who have taken the time was their children are growing up out of work to come back at an equivalent or more senior level up something for women returners in a couple of weeks.

This is the idea of return ships getting within back into senior managerial roles after they've been at home for a couple of years, but they've been at home for a couple of years and they lose confidence in their own ability they feel they've fallen behind they won't be taken seriously and it too often the embassies in those situations is not on model can offer but at the but she's thinking what is it? I won't be able to do at what is it? I won't be able to understand and they women a very reluctant to embrace.

What they have achieved in.

Which is not literally not a walk in the park although you will spend quite a bit of time in parks based on my own experience and the other thing I do is really important.

We'll stick to important.

I've always been told women don't ask for a pay rise.

That's a rubbish within do us for a pay rise and all too often.

They don't get one there's also the fact that women are not innocent here.

So they've been some women at the BBC throughout my time there and it's all part of it in our psyche women as well as man to be more likely to rate men than women so he didn't just men who raped men women rape men as well as well.

We used at the BBC and with the BBC women we use the with the presenters as a way of getting attention, but we're tiny would not even appear.

When it comes to actual representation and BBC and the ongoing problems we have situation we haven't BBC as he stays with producers across the entire organisation who are found that they are mysteriously paid unglamorous arms like 2 or 3 grand a year less than the bloke sitting diagonally opposite them doing the same job and is it what does that matter will over the course of a career pensions everything else it really does matter ok? So you obviously but what about this list now that is terrible the BBC of course is exactly The Economist has the highest pay gap although their chief.

Exec Chris stibbs says there is quite a healthy gender balance in recruitment and career progression.

What does success look like if you're looking at that list of media companies.

Is it about could you mention all the different factors involved is it about just narrowing the gap more? Is it looking for a parrot apparently actually not

I probably isn't really achievable not in my lifetime.

I wouldn't think I think it is it's already but we've had a God knows a string of uncomfortable conversations at the BBC about this and I think it's cause to certain amount of embarrassment that the BBC has been made to look quite old fashioned and I've got two teenage girls.

They they look at the BBC and they think what with this organisation offer a place where we are mothers enjoyed her what her working life and I have I should say but at the same time she also bangs on about how she's been underpaid and women of color at the BBC still getting a substantially more challenging time.

I would say than their white counterparts.

I think there was some issues at the BBC World Service about the way female producers have been treated and it's an ongoing string of issues and conversations that we are at least now acknowledging and we've also phoned her secret with all the group who are continuing.

Which other operator stories and experiences and I think possibly people thought we might go away what it is.

Never gone away that group is getting bigger and more women a joining and I'm getting involved.

So there's a nice looking at that list of commercial companies mentioned.

Yes, they done a good job.

Let me Dennis Publishing has women age more than men are suffering it's these things are obviously not going to be sorted out overnight except to say that I do think it's important that across all media will get the same chances as their male counterparts and because we know that men have dominated in senior positions.

I don't think there is any doubt at all across all forms of Media

What's the BBC people have appointed in their own image they have given opportunities to people with whom, they might have gone for a drink play golf with back in the day chatted to about West Ham all of these things do matter I remember when I joined BBC local radio there be a cluster of male producers and editors who would stand around the cricket jangling the change in their trouser pockets and talking ink to me and my female colleagues incomprehensible gibberish about what was going on the screen and out of my depth but we did feel slightly outside that actually worth it because we were on the problem is even if everyone even which I think is happening.

I'm not going to believe everyone in the industry and greed with Everything Changes as a huge problem must work towards it the solution might mean moving on very successful male bosses to equalise pay and the problem is if you're doing a good job.

Form of discrimination at this point isn't it's more the long-term thing and that's not what I heard from what I was saying female bosses were part of this quality would have morphine which means some of those mailboxes moving on doesn't it well and you know how quickly that rotation happens and is that a good thing or bad thing for creative and I would argue that you know more rotation is a good thing to keep you like crazy when you all alive.

There's also this problem.

Also exist with people of colour.

You know I think there's also if you're around there because I agree with Jane that just had any child and she doesn't want to work full time and where a small company that has very limited funds and we can't afford to have a head of development that works full-time so that's that situation at work so both of us.

It was a company you could argue that there's a massive gender pay gap because because me is a male is working full-time and Jess and die who don't want to work for time are there for earning less and therefore.

There's a man.

But we've actually actively hire people that want to be more flexible because I don't want to work full-time and so sometimes these figures can be slightly misleading but we do need to make sure that we into them properly and make sure there aren't problems and if this is what these surveys smart conversations and that's a good thing, but I don't think it's a simple as there is discrimination going on or desert definition of the I think there are lots of lots of reasons and causes that why have even dances we need to come and get all of them and find out if there are some advantages on the way it will be interesting when they're BBC puts.

Its figures again in the summer.

I think they'll be more women over because actually the problem at looking at that League table last time it was actually worse last year that it had been the year before when everything kicked off shore summer is going to show a few more higher earning women on that list but also there are some subtle points about this the highest earning woman who was killed in a Winkleman what is interesting is that she?

He has a degree from Cambridge she is a highly intelligent woman, but that isn't the reason she's paid such an enormous Nothing by the BBC so she isn't Andrew Marr or brain man although there are plenty of it highly intelligent women who work for BBC she is doing light entertainment brilliantly but the blokes earning loads of money tend to be valued for their megabrain and I think that's another thing that it's probably going to have to change good news for me at the media.

Podcast is the Producers struggle to find anyone have any gender who do this job for my salary about the nominations for the British podcast Awards released this week for the third year running at the article the British podcast Awards powered by Dax I've been told by the producer to say it's like the Chris Evans show with Sky that's just how you say the nominations were announced in a livestream by the cast of no such thing as a fish who would miss today been too slow to submit the entry for the deadline, so they were nominated.

But unfortunately any highlights from the apart from spotlight spotlights in this one recorded one light bulb ahead of you to get drunk so I look forward to seeing you there ok.

Well.

I definitely that well that I've got I do love that is probably cuz I love podcast that I don't listen all I don't watch much Netflix

Watching Apple TV or indeed Disney plus, but I do I did listen to Dear Joan and jericha, and they have rightly been nominated and it's absolute on a unadulterated challenging quite upsetting filth which I like going driving broadcasting isn't It Highlights to be looking at it seems that he's not making a lot of different categories and he's the most nominated.

I'm looking at this price the brexit cost is surprisingly absent and I think the brexit cost of the big break up for the year.

I don't know the answer that but it just feels like there's that that.

Where I'm standing, that's the thing everyone is talking about that's the kind of the porno will the serial of the year and I was coming expecting to see that being being shortlisted different categories.

Maybe they be too busy trying to figure out what it says all kick the can down the road when they made that occasion but whatever whatever reason then you know I haven't seen them on list but as ever this award ceremony great caused me great anxiety because it shows me that there's lots of stuff that I'm not listening to that's really great and I really don't want to describe two because my podcast list is growing.

I haven't got enough hours in the day end of days as well the Five Live podcast about Waco which I thought was brilliantly done and and what what's the other great thing about because it tells you you didn't you haven't heard and I didn't know about the British victims at Waco I just didn't know I don't worry.

I didn't know but I didn't know I know I found myself completely immerse.

That was really really good and with the level of detail as well.

I guess that you just wouldn't get in a 5-minutes when they happen and Dax by the way through as is an advertising dynamic advertising insertion type podcasting company story in fact global have been given the go-ahead to take over billboard advertising company exterion Media that comes hot on the heels of their purchase last year of two other out-of-home advertising firms primesite and plus we talked about on the show like it was a done deal, but it wasn't actually he's now and global are now 35% of the UK outdoor market at that so keen on billboards be like if spending a lot of money into getting a cash can an hour it makes sense that they know I think outdoor spaces a he's an interesting.

I was reading an article recently about how football advertising can be made dynamic now, so when you sit on the TV programme you can change it depending on what country you're you're watching that football show on so the Holdings around it may SE11 country in a different kind of different country and you know with the advent of more technology meaning that you can put 15 different adverts on one billboard.

It seems like this is becoming a more space.

So you know it will be interesting to see what they do all of that and if they are now going to be the people that affects big brand the country but fair play to them if they want to spend some money this based and is obviously a business for King James is the buses for example contracts to plaster radio stations across buses which are much frequented by BBC sounds magic I've seen at 4 at the moment absolute your browser or the BBC does it just stick in the throat.

You've got to give a load of money to globalls outside radio station.

It is going to be sometimes wonder when they going to stop buying things I mean to make a bit of the BBC

Probably run out of radio stations to buy stuff.

I've got a couple of driving along the whole golf whatever it is annual, but there will be a ginormous Nick Ferrari I think he started doing that so you can actually drive down the M40 and post review and Dales a Mrs on right now if BBC sounds want to give global a lot of money to my neighbours are going to take that money you there is a question about the inventory unused inventory, but that's not good thing for Global if people aren't buy ad space and having to stop on at that suggests.

They probably shouldn't that much out of days, so I'm sure that like you know there's a there's a kind of the hedge between the two businesses and

And we might necessary see this being used it's not very good use of space.

That is just all going to be used for Ian Dale adverts and Nick Ferrari advert and and I imagine that this is a different business here is something we don't usually do on the programme recommended book BBC Newsnight presenter Emily maitlis is on the press junket trail at the moment talking about airhead good title the imperfect art of making news.

It's a sort of autobiography of you about it.

Yes, I have unfortunately the award nominated podcast actually I'm quite quite revealing about her regime of hair hair styling.

She has hair done by a retired Albanian army general who comes around on a motorbike three times a week.

I just something I'll never forget about Emily maitlis.

I am I would like to wait to grab off-the-shelf at work Emily or you could just send me a coffee.

Is it actually Emily was involved into a kicking off the whole BBC women thing when she retweeted a tweet that I've treated and from then on going to college and movement little grand, but that sort of thing that has been changed now so of her profile heading up to me especially since brexit as a tranche of women across current affairs who are bacon Fallodon Way perhaps.

They weren't I think of people like Laura kingsburg thing for the

I think that female journalist at the moment firing on all cylinders, then more interesting.

They're getting better insight.

They tell stories in the better way and I think they're the best in the business.

I think as you mentioned Laura kuenssberg, Kirsty Wark and my mates are doing exceptional work and far out what I would argue with a fool not to pick them against each other in their male counterparts at the moment.

I mean you you will want to and I think it's in the UK I think what magic Moments doing but New York Times and in the USA she is now pretty much the face of the New York Times right now and it really demonstrates that the storytelling through journalism is at the moment feels like it's being absolutely nailed by that size of the gender balance fluent articulate speakers who can make really dense complicated issues relevant to people like me who do have an interest but by no means an expert and they're both really come to life on brexit cast as well.

Which is the format that allows them to be human and funny and it's a generalisation but I wonder sometimes whether the great BBC male political editors were in charge at the moment cos I'm not sure they have been quite so light light on their feet in terms of the verbal dexterity required at the moment and also enjoyed your cheeky question from female.

Let's be with him and certainly not me know you're right now.

He's he's he's a legend John 5 live for a long time so I don't buy them and Emily's book.

I will read it.

I'm sure it is going to be interesting also read a review the one you sent me about her personal things that have happened to defend her right.

Why should she bring us a personal story we Don't Demand that stuff from men usually not if men in a similar.

Tyrol high-profile intelligent intellectual role, they not usually required to about ok.

Well, maybe because I'm obvious comparison, but sometimes women you're meant to give more of your personal started.

So why the hell should I and so I quite admire her for not not going there actually we nearly done, but you'll be pleased to know Jamie want a little bit more from you because there is just time for our Media quiz this week.

It's entitled the things spokespeople say I have 3 quotes from the past 7 Days of media news you just busy with your name when you know who said it and if what they said there's any relation to reality best of 390g new to this so you buzzing with your name when you know the answer to join you.

Play JJ ok, he is quotes number one we regularly review what is on offer we offer a wide range of titles to give our customers plenty of digital print options for News business and leisure Reading material being called from no longer being offered to customers as they enter their plane cabin page-for-page saying that the reason was because they've written on flashing things about British Airways and BA say no we just review all media content periodically and for some reason the BFG on it but spokesperson.

You know the answer these panels are triggered algorithmically and our system sometimes make the wrong call ease YouTube will you close Jamie keeps saying something that you get given fact-checking in patients from Wikipedia but I imagine it's like come on.

What caught fire.

This is essentially what happens is there at there are conspiracy theories online and YouTube have automated procedures to take that stuff down fake news so that if you're Googling it it automatically Direct you to a page with take your medicine.

Have a look at this and think about it before you watch it but they accidentally recommended 911 conspiracy theories because because

His spokesperson un3090 answer I'm sure many of us would have made a mistake at work unfortunately Jane Jane Jane who's well party at I'm often find myself in interviewing somebody who could be my child and they just end up about it.

It's a generational against dodgy landlords.

I've just taken the wrong tack use the wrong tone.

I feel genuinely do have some food sometimes when you live interviewing somebody you get it wrong very good work for as though you are the winner week on this feed will be another edition of the medium business podcast in which the team will be talking sales so stay subscribed for that hill and the media podcast is a PPM next time.

This Christmas moment with more and what you love this Christmas including the M&S festive range geographical restrictions and delivery charge as a minimum spend £40 40s and seas that ocado.com.