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Read this: Spotify means business: how buying Gimlet changes podcasting

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Spotify means business: how buying Gimle…

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Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm on today show Spotify enjoy it 230 million gimlet digital journalism and publishing crisis and Instagram Scrabble to add on sensitive content plus Sky News turn the cameras on their own team and where they will young could take down the ground and in the media quiz we play Love and Hate you're gonna I mean you're gonna love it.

It's all to come today's Media podcast and John yesterday making her mediapad.

Stay with you.

It's the founder of podcast production company broccoli content Rene Richardson Hello welcome now when we met.

You working for panoply before that you worked at Acre know you have your own podcast production company with all that experience.

What is the gap that you're trying to fill I saw.

I know everyone's skeletons the Buried and I wasn't doing and just figured that the world needs to be a bit more inclusive that's not just realised it's just different experiences.

Everyone shouldn't need to work at the BBC to work in audio.

What do you mean by that across all media platforms you almost think podcasting is the one that shouldn't be erratically need any larger.

Tall cos theoretically the barrier of entry is so low is but there's only a certain type of podcast he's allowed at platform.

So you can make it because doesn't mean anyone going to listen to it, but there's podcast companies like panoply anymore, but now give me and we can talk that lots.

Companies who make podcast they choose the same kind of telling they literally look to the BBC and they make contact with them.

There's loads of people who the BBC haven't even touched who available to make so that's kind of here.

I come inside never worked at the BBC sounds and colors.

What's that about? I seem to be the people of colour represents for the UK audio community recommendations and I've got jobs everyone comes to me and I actually don't know every person the colour in England weirdly, so I thought let me tweet whether people thought I should start a group and yeah, it was said yes, I did so it's not my group.

I literally did the entry Google but it's just a place where people of colour can join together share jobs opportunities and then people can also email them jobs on offer.

Right out and if you're listening and you think you should join that group.

How do you do that at and making this week Alex Hudson Alex I said the other night you ranting about an egg the Instagram egg.

I don't understand why that thing is so popular.

I don't understand why Instagram I don't understand the people want on Instagram and don't like eggs.

Ok, briefly I realise I should have started this entire world now.

I've never taken an ad exec came up with an idea of I know Kylie Jenner has the most popular picture on Instagram so I want to beat it and I want to do it in the most ridiculous way possible, so I will upload a stock image of an egg and then put it towards you and so let's make this the most popular thing ever on Instagram it worked and for whatever reason and everything went alright at the Super Bowl ad break the thing that's annoying the exact the moment is that no one has any idea quite exam?

Actually, can't repeat it, but it upsets you so much because all of the time that people spend on the Syria stories beautiful bits of journalism and still is it's pointless forgets that's now believe you were 10 million and so the brand Hulu Lulu didn't advert about mental health that this is now worth a believed 10 million.

Just because a member follows it has double the amount of and written about this and it's not what people should care about and I appreciate that because I'm Precious at pretentious and media is here but it's easy and it's stew and journalism has to be better than that.

OK and there, I was Falling Into the Trap opening hours so glad your hearing Spotify have been shopping company started by an Alex blumberg and sleep and I paid 230 million for it.

Why for it so it's testing podcasts and said in the format two TVs left in the blog post by Daniel EK Alexa

A clear that their intention was to take over the audio world.

We want to be the one place where you come for all your audio.

It's not that are interesting developing ideas for telly.

This is just about going podcast to bring him Spotify don't think I'll be with you.

I think what's the waiting at the internet the moment is everybody wants to overtake everything so tiktok want to take over Instagram and wants to come out a Snapchat to YouTube Youtube Peppa Spotify and so on and so on and so on and spotted tried and failed video and if you look at the sound of music at the moment and look at new James Blake album.

They're starting to experiment with video formats in audio and they can see the gap in the chapel is currently collecting the podcast format and they're not really focusing and whatever else is running around things this huge growing industry and Spotify want to take over the world like I've had off-the-record briefings from define people very close to Spotify about the sort of stuff that planning I can't talk later specific, but it's not just its billing as a publishing platform.

Not just a hosting platform and that's why you should going that's why Facebook is.

That's if you like apple workday with music and apple ITV it's it's a two forks of the digital Industries I do you become a publishing platform would host the People's content and Spotify choosing to produce the Apple proposition doesn't really exist yet.

We're guessing as to what it might be in detail but something what does is Netflix seems to be the most easy and allergy to make his Spotify want to be Netflix for audio and if so does that mean exclusivity around gimlet content and if so isn't that going to piss all the listeners.

Are I mean everyone wants to be the Netflix for audio every press the thing everyone says Spotify actually made a podcast last year for Spotify exclusively, which was dabbing with a visual element.

They have a thing called spotlight.

Which is a play light playlist.

It didn't come out here it did come out in America so he was just an audio podcast they just want to be the place that you they just want to have every you're all of your experiences in one place them for trying but

I've got a Spotify premium account and I listen to on an Apple phone.

So either way as well women so there's not they don't really care.

They kind of still have control over these platforms like Facebook found out the other week and it's all data.

Is it they just want us to have all of our user habits in one place but Netflix haven't done that.

I have Netflix I have Amazon Prime if I had it in America I would have healing as well.

So it's like they've not got everything Netflix and Amazon Prime with fighting over content like it leaves Netflix it goes to Amazon Prime all that stuff so you will never have the one place, but it is good that Spotify are investing in content a place for you to have a one stop shop in the way of everything.

That's the thing isn't it? Well maybe it does maybe it has to have to submit your podcast apple Spotify open now.

Volume backdate although what Hunter like 500000 but anyone starting a podcast now can have their podcast on Spotify and they open that last for a consumer.

It will be irritating if some of the I want to listen to exclusive to Audible someone their exclusive to the BBC some of the exclusive to Spotify and I have five different reasonable comparison apart from the fact that podcasting started on the purest of things it's not RSS feed and get it anywhere you want the launch BBC television channel that there's a lot of arguments for and against that but one thing is doing is a powerplay as you don't need to go to Apple podcast you don't need to go to Spotify coming to the BBC Radio 4 Radio 4 and all of these podcast his new brilliant exciting order a formal.

Working on all-in-one Plaistow the BBC stay with the BBC retention time of the BBC introducing that content I mean the thing about this is if you are an independent podcast of Rene and what was putting you are an instant cast and your stuff goes onto Spotify like you said cos it's open that anyone can now and then Spotify start bringing premium new content posted by Paul is the celebrities to get the concert in and whatever your stuff out of the premium subscription that they paying to be on the Spotify service because the fact that they can access your showing the same place you part of the reason they carry on being there and you're not going to see any of it by me if I was bringing in enough audience to Spotify they would do that, so I would get a slice of the pie, but what if you would like 200 people there so if you're bringing 110l some people.

You up turn up the volume of the audience can't be the same as this is Stewart Lee I'm just feeling inside you actually good idea that 10000 people really care that something is way more important than 100000 people can have listening not really caring and I think that's a new one that you risk losing with this the more but listen to the better.

It is we know we going to talk about jealous in a minute and that's the model that slowly falling away.

It's how much people is something how much people care, how much will remember something that there aren't any metrics at the moment with Spotify risks losing my legs blog post said they going to spend anymore hundreds of millions of dollars on this over next year is it the right play podcast? I personally think it's exciting because I just started podcasting because I like it, but I also do like money and I'm not going to lie.

I have bills to pay and people who?

You say oh for the love there.

Obviously making money somewhere else and good for you, but I only make my money podcasting so I like when a big brown says they're going to spend loads of money in it because it means I might be able to get a part of it and then buy me clearly but I could pick contents of their spending money on container spending money on Sony shows like I said these are all facts.

So it means that if you have a good idea, but you might be able to get your show and before you only had to go to what pitch the BBC maybe audible so it's good to have another player.

That's a good thing to get advertisers used to advertise on podcasts like there a radio TV I think that's already happening so I think maybe a year ago.

Maybe 18 months ago that wasn't the case.

I think whatever happened last year it be serializable the media podcast Wetherby the right now.

How many podcast on at the moment due to suggest hit with the commercial exacts and they're taking notice because they know that we would even sister podcast at the most loyal.

They know that they actually listen.

I don't just likes it there.

No you click through some news stories.

You have to listen to a podcast and commercial organisations want to be part of the ones that are most exciting the ones that get people talk and it doesn't matter about the million people listen to it.

It's the those conversations happening and it's moving up the priority list for commercial companies some of that will come into play with an ex Tory as well, and that's that it's been a pretty terrible week for journalism in the UK with the closure of the digital brand for women the pool and also confirmation now have job losses at BuzzFeed in London which we talked about the last episode being on the horizon.

What happened with the pool the pool started with Lauren Laverne and co-founder Sam Baker and they wanted to offer a platform to women's sloth pyjamas and which at the time really wasn't getting Focus at least in the actual voices you getting the fashion and beauty content because that was very lucrative commercially but you weren't getting is real voice is particularly about you beauty backgrounds particularly from the Amy backgrounds and they want to.

And it was successful for a time and they had some big names in The Economist Edward exciting new voices and they were growing something and no matter who I talk to you all talk about how great it was and how much could contact number produced by past tense I mean inside from business model.

I mean is it not still popular at this point until we went through the very recent problem.

We're not reading it it was popular but the problem is advertising revenue going for a slump at the moment and without it charging for content without it setting up a subscription model have done a lot of money for the high-profile countries and it wasn't making ends meet this is prepared to pay for the premium content the advertising isn't there is literally no money.

You know it's a Pyramid Scheme worked at the pool and sea was made redundant started.

Making redundancies last summer and then it kind of it down here, but yeah, if we see before all of the money stuff everyone was really supportive of the writers of colour opportunities, but in some ways do like to pay for content if it's visual.

They don't like paper written content and there are some like smaller magazines like black ballad offering United scription you get the editorials and and people are payments really really minimal and so the poor just went too big Too Soon problem, was it didn't bring enough people with it, so it had a large leadership it had a strong leadership, but the thing with BuzzFeed them she would have gotten a minute is that those badges and love marijuana people actually literally wore those badges and that's Enterprise a hip surprised about big affiliated with BuzzFeed the pool had a huge opportunity for particularly female audiences minority audiences to be that's the flag waving site that we took on the dishes really challenge and

Always threaten to I nearly got there nearly got there and never quite reach that thing where they can be organising real life events and we like parties and provided as an activist base that would really move that Brand on what is it seems to be in a shock for the staff who working at the pool and for the freelance writers who were commissioned by them.

They don't seem to have been aware of the financial difficulties the company were in at all.

They were 760 outstanding personal loan at 40 grand I borrow £250,000 against the company's assets and lost 1.8 million pounds in the previous financial year at the villa on Twitter is basically saying she still doesn't know what the finances of the company where she wasn't included in those conversations.

They get profit and loss away from the editorial team and it seems like no one was aware.

They were writing for this sinking ship and a bit stranded when they won't pay yesterday and about this.

Yeah, and she was saying that you met last August all the directors resigned buy one so someone should have noticed something basically lanserhof black and these layoffs, then there are the does not paying in Weston still working to the last day.

It's they're doing it in and really mean ways responsible.

What's the right thing to do when your company is going into administration because what does in for the readers.

There's not a notification at the moment if you go onto the pools Twitter page.

It's just the Last Story they posted if you go onto the website is the last.

I think it's an entirely new ground here when you think about the closure of today's newspaper that made all the national ever have a real sense of nostalgia, because the last Edition and that was in the final thing that they are aware of it, but now that we're in 2019 and was seeing increasing with the digital media the expanded so quickly starting to serve shrink at least at least of my view.

We don't know.

Of course you've got Facebook to play little bit you know the Belfast mentality and idea of moving break things which means you go in and you don't understand the human class the best outdoor evening Standard that's that she may not ever see and its people's jobs because Liners and journalism is a tough industry anyway, and now you've just got twice as many freelancers looking to pitch in two articles and pictures of news organisations and becomes even tougher Furbies young journalist with the pool is that there was an infection from the audience certain specific articles anywhere in particular campaigns and whatever that people like play failed to translate that into brandloyalty that meant people were checking my homepage checking my email you have to be pragmatic.

So you have to set the world on fire lead music genders you have to do this beaches around so what's the point being a metre location he also have to put in the hard labour underneath that for the sort of stories that would do 5000 views everyday of the end of time.

The green explain is the analysis all of that sort of stuff that are the nuts and bolts at contemporary digital journalism and from what I can see that it didn't do that well enough and it didn't dry batteries Homebase digital media setup 5 years ago all photos on Facebook first Google second-hand Direct traffic third and email newsletters are remember I'm very proud Leon on Radio 4.


There's any modelling news that is at the moment until someone way more intelligent than me figure out is great for brand loyalty and so if you dream that alongside all the other activism you doing all that sort of thing of if 140 shirt proudly then, that's how it is Malcolm work if their newsletters are just a nice bit of information close them it doesn't drive your brand home to your target audience and therefore not to Commercial partners that you said the people wouldn't in this particular demographic was aiming at pay to read online stories is that the endgame or do you think there is a possibility of of getting that audience to pay ever?

I'm at the stage where I'm started started to pay for things and people are but it's just because Lenny letter was the same any better when it's gone now as well and it's the same kind of audience.

They were trying to get but what you were saying he did everything he got people to unite got the traffic.

You know made new people talk about if people like being associated it.

So there's clearly a bigger issue that I don't have no idea.

What is what people use to call a bubble over investment in some of these titles I mean BuzzFeed as we talked about the last episode huge amounts of money being poured into it, but it couldn't justify in what it could make you could say the same about gay people were to create their spending money so in the old days people used to be more conservative when they were starting a business you say you got investment you kind of spend it.

You know you wouldn't spend you one everything but are these businesses just going well with the money? I think I'm going to have.

This last week as I was arguing with him about the future having with your works and it's that the most difficult stories and most time consuming the most expensive stories are the least easy to make money from so you're talking about you.

Don't want to sit around that you're talking about poverty advert.

I don't want to be anywhere near it and that's the most important.

Gemma's and that out of Janet absolutely certain that every news outlet should cover and cover properly, but there is no revenue model unless you're charging uses for that and so what you're saying is the busty model of the BuzzFeed news separating serious content from the content and I think what bus would you find is the less serious content is easier to monetize and that's the scary bit that digital media has to solve ok? Let's talk a bit more about digital media of a different social networking and Instagram has promised measures to limit vulnerable uses exposure to images of self-harm.

This was in the wake of the discussion around the 14-year old Molly Russell's suicide.

When I talk through the idea of the sensitivity Screens and then click through to see it.

It's a double click is that it? It's partly that but it's it's Instagram being on the distance itself from responsibility is that whole thing about whether or not is a digital publisher or not? Are you a publisher that image or are you just a person whose show me off and I think my view on that has changed.

I always used to think that Facebook and is excited about something that you might have been wrong one of these adamantly finger wagging Lee talk someone down and said you were right you you're saying you actually might have been wrong all the time.

Early yesterday, where's the story? I might I was making sure it's true.

That was like paper photocopy, Revolution wasn't Causeway photocopy my people it's not Instagram causing these images of people causing them is to proliferate and the thing that I'm changing my name is that increasingly I'm thinking that particularly to those under 18.

I think there is a responsibility and publishers to hide.

I think how they do that is a incredibly difficult job and it might be because I'm getting older than thinking of the children, but it's on those publishers to at least show people define stuffing censoring is the worst thing possibly do because it means that conversations don't happen, but the key is B and M open up those conversations is always that if you look at those images same as Google Samaritans if you're Googling certain topics will say Oasis emergency number open that conversation don't just block it begin that dialogue and open those chat understand that.

Because there has been a bit of a backlash against the initial responses from Facebook owners of Instagram but they do the kind of thing Alex is talking about because people said we'll just take self-harm images off completely you know if it's leading to teenagers take them off completely but there is an argument for saying it's important to the bait gone because they're just we know when there's like a young kid was killed in the Bronx and it was those #justiceforjohnnydepp and if you went into the discover page who ever liked the things you would see his murder.

She's one of the reasons.

I deleted Facebook because I don't want to see someone getting murdered as I open an act.

Would it did it leads you know could it lead to conversations around you know youth violence.

Yes, but the news for that and I don't need to see them.

They shouldn't have these things on there.

I think there's a tricky balance money reporting guidelines for the Samaritans rightly surrounded by suicide and the risk of coffee.

Anna and how you report death and I report murder in or around mental health and generally and it's vital that you ring up smarter than we talked to Martins Light most weeks about our report certain issues, but just by not talk about them the mental health stigma around above is already huge because people don't feel like they can come and talk to adults with just talk to their friends because they've there then instantly x without blusher ou health issue, RK and then you're excluded from other conversations.

It's part of a social networks duty to to remove the stigma around the conversations and once the signature move then moving as images part of that but removing it straight away and hide out of mind doesn't solve the issue because you have with the mental health conversation.

We don't need don't need to see someone who slit their wrists or he's cutting themselves to see to have in order for me to be triggered to have a mental health conversation you can have those you can there's other way.

Can create the opportunity for the conversation you don't need the actual images.

I think the images already full full of it from Gallows anything showing recent self I'm certainly scar.

That is not currently healed is already against guidelines are already been removed and there's a whole different issue about Instagram reporting issues.

That is fine.

This is ok.

Let you know when you see a horrible hate crime happening.

It's not bad when you see something really minor and it is but the wider issue around blocking reason to ignore that conversation and remove your duty as a publisher to cover these responsibly I think it must have a problem solving.

It will know that there is shoes around on internet you know in a real life experience.

We all live encounter issues around all kinds of taboo subjects which the mainstream Media completely ignore being an internet Culture thing.

I should take this point.

I contribute is it and nodding at me whether that's illegal drug used for underage sex or whatever the thing is on the internet things get said photos get shared ideas propagate which if the BBC is they did on the ten oclock news with the

Around a 14-year old girl put the light on at you by the end of every internet company when it they will have to come and we must take action isn't it time that people started doing this I mean because it's like is a disconnect.

Everyone's head between what is the online and what they expect everyone else in the media fix fix the issues like same as like the Chapel-en-le-Frith huge problem across the internet trying to do it's horrible, but you just driving to people underground you choosing to get better proxies better DNS servers there more hidden from mainstream conversations same with the self-harm the more you hide driven underground the lesson about the mainstream of Leicester gets fixed the other side of that things are baby uncomfortable.

All this was as if you saw the BBC reported a surge in calls to the farm charities following the reporting of this story as if they'd opened Pandora's box and all these people who were parents of children who can influence into self harms or Instagram then cold.

Clarity but actually I was listening to that story and thinking well.

Maybe that's the reason everyone calling out because it obviously is an issue, but also you've had you Edwards read out the action line on the 10:00 news remix running now saying if you've been affected by this issue.

Give us a call and nothing to do with Instagram at all.

That's about self-harm.

I was just thinking about 13 reasons why season 1 was obviously document in the teenagers suicide and then there's loads of complaints and so season 2 was in about dealing with the issue the mental health issues.

They could dance like you said because they are too bad things but if they create content that maybe maybe we'll talk about it like the newsreader that every day more people like a call this number if Instagram did something like that you can still get rid of the images, but you're also doing the mental health campaign targeted at younger people with that would work all of these.

Some of the fact that mental health because there was more information available and people have more in tune with their feelings that it's it's impact in more people than ever before and someone has a step in and do something is not burning just that something ok.

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What UK and Alex are still me and Will Young has threatened Amazon's Grand Tour show with an Ofcom complaint and legal action after the latest episode featured homophobic jokes Alex if you've been following this story this seems like bread butter at and it comes down to the Grand Tour having a particular image.

Just as top 2 year did before it being free white petromin talking in a way that the 1990s thought was perfectly ok and now in 2019.

It's less ok, and it will young challenging that to actually no actually works have an impact on young people particularly in young man and the word specifically I mean it.

Didn't it? Didn't get much worse really and I don't mean to say this isn't offensive but it didn't get much worse than them saying the Wrangler

Is a gay car quote on let's put a pink roof on it.

Let's make some make some jokes of the kind that actually had the presenters been gay probably wouldn't have been problematic.

The point was people insinuate that certain time.

That's true.

They come with the Backstreet right you're not just seen Jeremy Clarkson isolation like he's just been invented yesterday.

Maybe people might have given the benefit of doubt if he wasn't Jeremy Clarkson but those words that's like you look at the police because kids get you something when the word game was being used to mean bad or that's ok.

All that sort of stuff you saw a rise in teenage suicide attempt from the gay community like those a smaller size things seem to us from the outside for teenagers greatdays a huge problem and it has a huge impact because it makes being homophobic benefits of light fluffy hilarious homophobic can a passable for Society and on the actual mechanics of whether or not Ofcom can intervene on a show that Amazon a broadcast?

It's Complicated and I'm Googling as we speak because I feel like we should therefore we don't so the actual thing is the Netflix for the Peugeot 16 of Holland not the UK even though it's plugged in the UK and it has to abide by the terms of the European unions audiovisual media services directive which is a standard 4 on Demand services potentially harm to children Amazon is even different again so with prime it does abide by the avms directive.

That's the audio visual media thing but that Amazon is enforceable by Ofcom in the UK so sort of the top not there is a difference in the sense.

I suppose that this show isn't being broadcast in that sense of the word over 2 people who would passively watch it you have to elect to watch it.

You know the sense of humour forget Amazon have taken money you know from young and old people and they know what homophobia is and I know what homophobic crimes in a hate crimes are just put a stop.

Out 2019 point it wasn't just that it could have been edited out.

It wasn't like most jokes in in those programs.

It wasn't an adult joke was it was obviously produces contrivance to do a whole story about this car being a complete with music visual jokes and everybody else.

It's not 1995 to 1989 Sky News launched 30 years ago.

What did they do to celebrate this week? They celebrate with all sorts of different things but mainly around the gold I'm not asking what Adam Boulton for everyone is a cake they launch Sky News raw which are the backroom behind-the-scenes footage of everything I did that day and I think people have reviewed it and said it was actually successful by giving a giving a window into our hard-working and use rumours.

They run a little bit delayed to avoid.

What I work in his room all my working life.

There's a lot of swearing rather than that that was my biggest concern so obviously haven't watched all 10.

Hours is the amount of stuff that we say we say that xx did while at know obviously that will cost as you know 20 grand yeah, and so the instant.

Was it Thirty Seconds to know which bits to cut and anything you can do like blessed.

I think it's an incredibly caring thing to do.

I don't know that anyone outside the media bubble car, did it matter run over people outside the media bubble didn't care.

I mean people inside the media bubble noticed.

It was a cool idea.

It does underlines.

Go in user's credentials as innovative news broadcast it's trump card forever.

Just like anything but good for them.

I mean the Guardian tried it and no one because you get instant metrics and how many people read?

The garden trident 900 B no, we're going to read on news sites the actual news stories in the stuff that we spent hours and hours in and that's an increasingly difficult task people that want to see how they made at the same time as which anime people just do the sausages in the end of it why that is about the Guardian using for example and then use meeting actually editors and cut down.

See you soon.

Polly toynbee swearing and you know that would be but not going to watch the whole thing live.

Would you cope well with the cameras viewing your day today behind-the-scenes work process.

I would not like that at all.

We try that with the BBC and we found that no one cared and no one would know where was this Today programme and we tried a bit of question time as most successful, but no one cares.

What did you try to film to the behind the scenes?

About you know how the presenters get ready that sort of stuff question time this is after I left it became successful, because it was Dimbleby sliding down part of a set that one mega viral and the kids have more pressing is do a time and we never got user engagement when David audience for those things ok, let's have a number of people cancelling their TV licence and the burden of let me over 75s telly for free over 75 should get a free TV licence and if so who should pay for it because the government has put the put the cast onto the BBC forever even know that means a shrinking budget for program people getting their TV licence and I think that will continue as a point they offered it.

They can't take it back you can.

That's not fair because people like are you and I'll send you 5000 get through TV discount offer for black and white sets as well.

I still do but I'm still exist but it would be reasonable to that out now.

It's not I mean I used to try it.

Just having a telly and now they say that if you watch iPlayer you have to pay I mean why not evolved the licence fee my not say that it's not our fault the government made us pay for the over 75s.


We can't give it to you because you're opening hours box of the regressive taxation policy around charging everybody regardless of means exactly the same fee and that's the problem over 75s have to have them into absolutely payforit people who are younger who don't have them in shouldn't be able to pay for it should be part of a main taxation think it's entirely ring-fencing still maintains BBC impartiality.

It's the weird aggressive form of taxation that doesn't take into account a person's means and that's a bit wrong with licence fee licence fee always exist and is vital for the BBC particularly news format particularly and popular formats to exist and to be funded by the taxpayer this isn't just currently the correct way of doing it but give

TV licences for over 75s doesn't take into account that means there's plenty of attention.

Is it doesn't but I think blanket offering free tv.

Licence for over 75s when they are the richest cohort the way more money than 27 things entirely ignores the current financial state of which generation and generation to generation and the other people watch the TV the most so I doesn't make any sense to Mitchell stop it stop it now ok, so right.

So you're saying stop giving me over 75s TV licence, but you disagree with overtime left to its own devices TV licence will literally fade out because people would volunteer to stop paying I think I think it right that there is a risk that might happen.

I think we have to do everything in my power to make sure it doesn't everything's at the BBC does the other broadcasters would not do the things that the publishers cannot do and I think BBC trying bloody hard to get letter l and bring out new voices and the thing that is hit with its budget.

Is the it's focusing back on really traditional format and not experiment as much as it should the BBC ceefax all these different things are now Netflix doing the stuff for Amazon saying it's definitely look at the difference in production values play the BBC original Netflix original it just shows you exactly that the limitations the BBC's budget are having its content compared to Netflix before I think about the way that the iPlayer Netflix doesn't exist that iPlayer agree, so the ceefax reference that I enjoyed strong in ITV meeting I'm going to do this low low res information service that Bieber left click through on buttons commercial viability because it doesn't have a commercial viability know whatever did but the fact the BBC can do that even if it had failed horribly no one ever used it is vital that the BBC has the money and the freedom to do that sort of weird stuff at the bottom line is at the moment.

They are shouldered with this.

And they do have to cut budgets if you're around the BBC what would you not even Radio 4 or something specific? Just radio audio or just all the nations and regions switch on the radio to get rid of the people watch BBC Four I mean that is the one that does seem like the one that is 20% if you want a crane impact if you maintain Lucy funny you cut Radio 3 you threaten that and then people people go crazy for it and it doesn't cost anything really.

Expensive the radio stations and the audience and it hits a certain audience that the BBC cannot anger because they have the loudest voices in Westminster and in the in the London bubble, and that's why they moving BBC reminder TB is it should have been fixed along time ago and that should have been the breeding ground for all manner of new content.

Just get rid of BBC2 just get rid of the BBC series where they do the high-end drama.

I think test out the best and most interesting channel radio Radio 3. say radio is not the relatively good reading for the radio distri Greg James his first quarter in his new Breakfast Show Radio 1 shows the growth in reach.

I don't know if you're surprised by that I mean he's more popular basically any surprises there he's more popular, but I would also like to see the average ages of those listeners and the listeners that he's gained.

I would be incredibly surprised if he has lowered the average age of the Radio 1 audience think that's my name is she would that higher is that it's a very safe option as we talked about before and he's not zeitguised he is a lovely human, but he's not going to challenge the status Quo what BBC cliche is the most people don't know the figures on the big new breakfast shows Chris Evans Zoe Ball Lauren Laverne we don't know about those until next quarter it is.

I think that talk radio still hasn't cut through there got this investment from Rupert Murdoch's company by the wireless group they've got Matthew Wright have got Eamonn Holmes they put loads of telling on here and it's not like people don't like speech.

I mean Radio 4 has gone down the LBC is gone up.

So why can't talk radio get an audience LBC if you look at the amount of quality guest LBC getting out if you look at that sort of status of getting LBC has become list of commercial Radio 4 and Eddie Mair who is one of the brilliant broadcast of his generation is now taking that station by Storm and there's a relatively small gaps in them and they need to push harder at market heavily.

I'm really see either go big or go home or else they going to be continually washed out by the BBC and by the big existing players and also it seems that the results are in on magic going 100% Christmas certainly didn't on them and it's difficult to tell with the quarterly result because obviously December just a bit of it, but didn't see a declining listeners in fact the reverso.

BBC more stations going 100% Christmas disassembly body holder was it for the home and yeah and also we've seen more consolidations and commercial radio this week Alex power acquiring cellar door and the Lincs FM group it basically means that a tiny party radio stations and outside the control of the big groups that a little bit but then do those things that white chuck it all about you know is it the big conglomerate Facebook and Google to blame for this just going to take over that's what podcast is meant to bring and podcasting is this new thing that's meant to be independent for it removes that innovation at removals of the pirate radio cliche in this matter the style do we have about what radio really wasn't the Innovations that happened in the 70s and 80s? It's now.

Just Greg James and people who look and sound.

James and people who play the same music as Greg James a crossover every commercial channel is interesting to see the decline in Manchester of key 103 is only one but now they called him radio Union appear.

Not to be making it on the radio Diaries and that's going to be a warning sign for better as they try and roll out these big national brands putting a nice vanilla wash over all of the content to make popular it doesn't offend everybody welcome to put a vanilla wash the end of the show in his time.

You'll be thrilled to know for Media quiz before we start an apology for brought some fake news in our last Media quiz we told you that David Tennant's new podcast was being produced by The Economist in one of the answers in our last Edition and it isn't it's been made by something else yt number one in the Apple podcast charts.

Oh well done to them and by the way number two is the Intelligence which is the shows has been made by The Economist at least it was a newsworthy fuk up right onto this episode quiz and this.

I have found three stories about things that medial and loves to hate all you have to do is identify which I'm talking about the winner gets a holiday for two in the sunlit Uplands the loser is off to a special place.

Help your buzzing with your name when you know the answer so we know you will say and Alex you will say Alex right, let's go music request show on BBC Four got a critical kicking after the first episode aired Friday night jukebox live play Grogan and featuring tracks from the BBC live music archive why did people not like with Spotify or whether people listen to music.

Song Sometimes the songs called a playlist of the to spell brandy to expand its output with the podcast partnership with wow, I've started so I'll finish with delta Airlines and the documentary series with Netflix yes really the lifestyle brand often ridiculed for its endorsement of expensive ephemere are releasing a series of 30-minute episodes this autumn featuring herself talking to experts about well.

Will you be watching that there's no songs in that podcast she had oprah's the first guest, so it's clearly gonna be good people on the show so yeah, I like to learn there is so little to learn about Boudicca

Suspect and you know they're a lot of wellness trends are asked me to spend loads of money that I don't have and yet.

I mean this is partly a kind of women's media thing.

It's a bit like the Kardashians I'm not sure I understand why women in some of this stuff like it anyway, Korean beauty and has a section and you know I like to just try and pretend I can look younger in the healthier in that's what it's for escapism.

It's giving a bigger platform to someone with already a huge platform brilliant business from Netflix is really clever because people will sign up and I will watch this thing but I think the idea that we're going to expand their knowledge of wellness and mindfulness and mental health because it would of power and things are going in Bolton is a stretch and honest question number 3, it's not the tiebreak, but you could prevent yourself from being humiliated Alex which long-running Breakfast Show could be looking for a new presenter after its long-standing host suggest.

Wouldn't be there much longer.

Yes, Alec my former colleagues and yes, he has told the Daily Mail will people the assumed he would be leaving the political programme by the end of the year after 32 years in his autobiography a lot of people mentioned this quiz is all about people love to hate a lot of people come on this shows like doctor on Humphries but it's difficult that's over 32 years is that people will miss him that man incredible journalist and I think but the biggest Gilly has is that you can pinpoint the question that the audience want answering and that is a skill that is a lot more difficult than it sounds and he's been up at 3:30 in the morning for what yet 30 years right.

So that's a testament to him and the fact that he still Politician's still scared and terrified of and anyone comes on there's always at to the sensitive when I used to be broke assistant that you take them in and you could see them physically slightly shaking a little bit about the fat going to face this man and that's

Just the power that that has no questions asked and he gets up criticism for the amount of runs unctuous Tony users, but that's part of his job related to your hatred of already extend to boycotting John Humphrys as well if you're in to what we're doing then.

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