Read this: Media Business Podcast #1: The Oscars' Business

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Hello and welcome to this new bonus series called the media business podcast broadcast magazine and screen international.

I'm at MB your screen international in every month will be taking over the media podcast.

Sorry I like to bring you an extra slice of business news from film TV advertising and more will look at the driving some of the big trends in the media sector within our system our editorial team and insights from key industry players in the first of our Media business podcasts were going to be looking at the Business of the word season as a whole not just the glamour of the red carpet Cineworld ceremonies themselves, but what drives you work this.

What does it mean for Talent producers and distributors? What do you actually have to do to win an Oscar

Will also be sitting down with Elizabeth Carson and Stephen Woolley from london-based Independent production company number 9 films will be honoured at this year's BAFTA film awards ceremony for their outstanding contribution to British cinema first that start with a discussion about the importance of the words using for the industry.

I'm going bye to colleagues from screen international she film critic Finn Halligan and news editor Charles Gant and by Daniel battsek the director of film for and previously at mirror Max Cohen Media Group and National Geographic films welcome to all the word season.

Can you remind us at the big tiles and how they feel that this year's Oscars and baftas clear leaders and both cases Roma and the favourite.

So when would the Academy Awards room with Auntie nomination is the favourites on 10 nominations over the baftas the favourites on 12 nominations chromosome 7?

And then we're moving on down with your cademy Awards Spice age green book 5 blackkklansman, Bohemian Rhapsody Star Is Born and black panther and more or less repeated at the baftas as well with the exception of first man that comes into the baftas and how has this particular words using a bold in terms of where it ends up.

I think they were obviously film with the words in quite strongly and maybe a faded and some other ones and picked up the picked up to sort of place along the way I mean.

It's always a rollercoaster ride when you consider that the actual season begins in Toronto and ends with the Oscar is 6 months of the year which is in same and in that time.

I would say A Star Is Born it was a real kind of front Runner people that movie Thor is nailed on you can just now and I think it's picked up another nominations.

It's not really favourite in hardly any categories apartment song and I think first man also it was a Venice Film you know had a lot of heat.

I think that film has not really scored in the major categories clareforyou this you picked up a BAFTA nomination for Supporting Actress but that's come on the fade.

I think rising would be Bohemian Rhapsody when that film first appeared critics sort of work put in a bit short shrift.

I think there was a lot of heat on Rami Malek performance but people thought that it's going to be it's actually picked up serious nominations in major categories.

I think blackkklansman has been a real so late surge movie done better across to dominations and expected and also black panther that you know there's a lot of the lot of support unit corner, but people didn't necessarily think it was going to get that crucial best picture Oscar nomination which it did I agree with cos I think what's interesting about this year, but seems to be interesting about every year is just how much Evan flow there is because there is so many different awards and festivals between.

I mean someone say between cam which is in May all that sort of faded a little bit as a as an Oscar prognosticator, but certainly those for festivals, but then you have things like the sag Awards the DJ Awards the PGA awards and you can get situations where directors get nominated as that has happened this year for DJs directors Guild awards and then don't get an Oscar nomination sudden you go for a high point down to a low point.

I think that happened certainly with green book and with a star is born in that.

We're both Bradley Cooper and Peter Farrelly got dga nominations, but then were bumped out of the Oscar and then as Charles the saying black panther due to its enormous box office huge critical support appear to be real frontrunner then kind of drop down but then it just won the sargon sample which is usually have very good sign up of Oscar strength because the sag at screen actors Guild have so many Academy voters suddenly black panther.

Back into the conversation so it's a it's it's a constantly changing situation with will go right down to the Wire I think we have to mention to to Film4 Productions which of Earth's core strongly with the Oscar nominations and about nominations cold war and the favourite in both of those instead talk about the directions both of the directions of those bones Pavel pawlikowski cold war and you'll get your favourite taking the slots that perhaps maybe would have otherwise gone to Bradley Cooper and Peter Farrelly for green book certainly in pavels nomination incredibly deserved.

It was surprises.

It's pretty rare that are the director of a foreign language film gets a Best Director nomination from the Academy given at the film was only nominated in the floor didn't get into the best picture, but yes this year you've got to foreign language film directors in in Quran and pulikowski and and you'll be learnt from us for for the favourite so

Everything all incredibly well deserved but certainly not necessary the way people with thinking there's nominations we go do we think the Increasingly international membership for the academy in the last couple years ago a lot of effort on there? Is that come into play it all in terms of the way the nomination nations have saved up this year data SIM Best Supporting Actress as well as orange nomination and the film.

It's a really big showing for a film michroma, but is that because of the membership or because of this promotion because I think there's been a huge spend.

I mean that sort of factory in this year's both better and Academy is that Netflix making a gigantic attempt to get themselves noticed and they have a wonderful film.

I'm not arguing about that, but they've spent and peoplesmart.

Money on Academy campaigns on Studios do Netflix have now spent them by a considerable margin, but alongside that you know I think again.

It's just because I you know mainly responsible for independent films and supposed to studio films.

I think it's fantastic that I feel like the favourite has been so celebrated has been so rewarded as was the case for three billboards last year and in fact the last couple of years.

There's been he hasn't only been box office that has been the source of the source of most significant Factor about film success in the word used to be the box office was so crucial now.

I think there's only a relativity about the box office in other words if a Forever film outperforms what people expect it to then it gets and Glow that Academy members.

Love to be part of because you would want to be part of a success.

I think the speaking of the the new return supported for Netflix it might even be as much as 25 or 30 million.

That there is any on the Roman campaign just looking back at you know the recent kind of decades since you've been but the film she is is that a figure this out of the out of The Stratosphere in compared to have been back in the 90s or 2000s is that a lot if that if that's ok? It's never a pure Academy campaign.

It was mixed up with my normal.

It's mixed with the release of the film so use of ad in the Academy campaign within the release the time because the funds tend to be released more less concurrent with the Awards season is that number reflected a pure Academy campaign that would be at least double or more than double then them or even sort of significant studio.

It's Ben but Studios and independent spend spend millions of dollars on Academy campaigns don't get me wrong.

It's it's a very significant portion of of a marketing budget and

Honeywell Centre Oldham are these outcomes that the commercial outcomes are the potential for a word season films worth the obviously the amount of money spent on something that campaigns how much impact the nominations and the wind actually have on the box office but what I can certainly say is that if you look over all at the English language movies that are coming out the other kind of playing at had Cinemas that are targeting independent cinema fans now even more than was the case 10 years ago or 20 years ago the award season is absolutely crucial to the situations of the release of those films and therefore Daniel agree with me that the Green Lighting of those films.

I did a list of the top 20 in the UK box office the top 20 English language.

Look independent / has movies of last year 10 of them came out in January and early February during the to the bath window.

That's half.

Films and loads of course I like you know best picture nominees like darkest hour three billboards the post to shake of water ladybird and a phantom thread and the top hits of all of those films.

I think got a significant boost from from the association.

They wouldn't particularly.

I think more the small the title a phantom thread.

I think you know that that's if you look at the trajectory.

It's American box office and the UK box office it's participation that was a little bit surprising in in the in in terms of nominations.

It was getting best picture nominations absolutely transformed the commercial life of that movie.

I mean they took a massive bear on there and I know I know at the time a lot of people outed.

Why was that film in there and didn't play any of the key festival so it didn't have any of the normal runway up into the Awards corridor and so it was.

Do or die strategy is deservedly getting in my opinion best director and best picture nominations and suddenly dead life but looking at your own free billboards last I think we did 40% of its us take post nominations and something like moonlight.

You know made for under 2 million gross 65 million dollars world.

You know just based on all the noise didn't win best picture but even without that leading after that you know A24 went from a very limited release to put it on 1500 screens in the US so I think there's there's examples every year of film specially in the Independence of the sphere that that rely on that nomination great think about the nomination period is why you have nominations.

You're a potential winner and it's only when he was actually come around that you go from there to being either win or lose it so during that period of

You have the opportunity 34wks whatever it is of you know having those ads with 10 nominations including best picture including best director and everybody wants to be part of the conversation and in order to do that you have to see the films.

Do you think the aztral suggested the existence and importance of allwoods season factors go into calculations for weather weather project gets or not? I mean with the university and The Prestige drama and high-end.

You know Indian films that obviously tend to score well with with the with orange spiders be careful not to far ahead of yourself because when you're making decisions about a film production and Investment you were making it.

There are so many things that come in and into that sort of information gathering and so many creative decisions so many financial decisions but certainly for wee wee very.

Keen to have films with get that sort of Awards attention, so you tried to work with filmmakers who have a track record in that area you try to deal with subject matter that has potential to appeal to you.

No more often than not does include many Academy members, but anything would be wrong to suggest that we should have put a note in the diary the first day that we green like the movie and sort of thing are great ok.

Let's make sure we're entire tax on that day, but would it would it have any input into maybe the budget level that film with that with that Factor and it's all I think that's very very difficult one to two again to forecast because although we giving examples of Incredible successful units of Academy campaigns and the way that those impacted on the revenue for particular films.

They're all so many many many films that fall by the wayside something which we mentioned.

You know that should start off like that's a first man that start off with a huge kind of trumpeting at a festival and everybody at that point.

I think would have bet on it going all the way and it didn't so I think again you you just got to be very careful not to assume that you have the goods until until it really is out there playing 22 audiences into critics and I would say that universal had it from living in the UK and a willy head.

That's what they release date because if you do go in that October or November slot.it is competitive and it's not in a lemon Dave they've they kind of got their box office ahead of them not securing their nominations which is a tactic, but you know can be used if I think sometimes you exactly you you have other kind of box office you have other potential.

Box office that doesn't realise it wasn't me blackkklansman, as well went weird of the of the sort of the so-called Oscar corridor, because because it was a film that was going to make a noise anyway and so it did very well and then then the suit of what happened post nominations and stuff is sort of icing on the cake rather than cake itself black handles back in US Cinemas of off the back of the word so is going to pick up a few extra million.

I think from that re-release might be potentially you know have a little bit of an edge in the best category for this is first nomination.

He's gonna he's got such a history of filmmaking behind him and he's never been recognised this way before by the Academy yeah, I think this and you can you can make an argument for every one of the best director nominees they all have a story to tell and their Studios are telling their stories loud and clear.

Would you say that?

Pay towards season has changed significantly at the mechanics of how it works is anything significantly different from the way it was back in the 90s when obviously Harvey Weinstein was in his heyday.

Well when you're at mirror Max is there any big changes or is it kind of business has was back, then? You know the dreaded Harvey Weinstein is largely responsible for the fact that this has become such a high-profile and heated and debated and and money spent on a complicated operation.

You know anything he he and mirror Max were the Vanguard for this entire situation, which which ultimately has benefited many films that would not have received anything like this.

Sort of recognition or awareness or box office and many filmmakers.

so you know anything going right back Unit 2 films like my left for the Crying Game and Pulp Fiction and so many of those early miramax films which you know massive campaigns of manea publicity and there's were orchestrated by Harvey and Incredibly incredibly successful, so I think that sort of the beginning of this new age where I'm going up to the Oscars been going for for many many years but but I don't think they were anywhere nearly talked about in public life as they are now everybody has an opinion on them and they're so much of an industry around them in terms of the blogs and the problem is on the Las Vegas odds and you know I mean it's it's it's a whole industry onto itself and as it lasts a good 6-months and that's

When are fiction that was starting at canso the corridor was even longer than it seems to have contracted and sort of intensified over the last couple of years to between Venice and really the actual dates for the six months of intensity to that.

I think can partly due to its specific selection policies.

You know refuses to play Netflix and partly because I think Studios we just buying it just too difficult to sustain a campaign from may until the following March so I think that has suitable most that is used camper.

Can you say used to be a vital part specially for a mirror Max films of starting that ball rolling of throwing up that flare their film was considered very especially if as import fictions case you want the Palme d'Or but I did number of interviews with Talent for screen is national towards week leaves and talk to some of the actors and filmmakers and then.

Say the same thing Keira Knightley who we interviewed for Colette obviously didn't ultimately nominations didn't really and see you, but she she was just saying it's crazy like when I did and Prejudice I did write 23 q&as and in a couple of covers and even a few years ago to the Imitation Game it's not as insane as it is now I spoke to the green book film makers Pete Farrell Never Been part of this whole thing he just could not believe his schedule.

He was like going out his phone going I'm flying here and I'm doing this and then a greeting in airport with a text with a jacket and I'm doing that and then he just what is going on.

He was absolutely amazed at what they know you know you know if you're part of the industry, then you have to pay your dues etc, but I must say when one has been on the road one of those campaigns like for example.

You know when I did No Country For Old Men

You see what your stomach is have to go through in terms of they made the film you know 6-months prior to that.

They done all sorts of other things and suddenly they shut down their lives for 6-months while they go as Charles mentioned 2QN days around about the place to various glad handing events to all sorts of Award Ceremony with no country because in your job and even cold and not exactly the party person and eventually after you and it one everything has to be said and some point they literally everybody from the film refuse to attend and it wasn't metabroadcast critics circle awards ceremony and so suddenly the finger was pointed at me that if we won.

I would have to go and collect this award was televised as well sure enough it did win and I just remember so well going up to collect the award pretty no breaking as it was looking out.

Sea of incredibly famous faces all looking at me basically saying who the hell are you as I collect it whatever it was they still glass jug for No Country but I mean it just it isn't The Long Haul and it's sort of it requires a permanent sort of smile on your face if you're if you're any of these actors or actresses or directors because if you put it on everybody knows about him as a backer of films like three billboards in the favourite.

Would you be involved and any of these strategizing around categories? I guess what I'm thinking about is perhaps the favourite best actress split.

You know when it was decided that Olivia Colman would be put into the best actress category.

Where is Rachel Weisz in going to be even though all three actresses probably had roughly about about the same as the screen is that any anything that you were privy to in terms of conversations or I'm in the returning our conversations about a 1:50.

Actually evolve as to what is the best way to go about it.

I mean in a way sometimes you really you kind of don't want to have too many choices to make as it happened it kind of put out the delivery would be best at being the best actress category that seems like the natural thing that worked perfectly and then both Emma Stone and Rachel Weisz got Best Supporting Actress would you gain times you can sort of feel is seems like an embarrassment of riches and can be complicated if you feel like suddenly the vote may be split between them and allow somebody else to go in to get in but I hope that something to happen negative campaigning because that has obviously coming to play Many times in previous years and of course this year particularly with the green go with green book has been there been a factor negative.

I mean is it negative campaigning or are kind of Embarrassing details organically emerging or are awards campaigners enough.

Journalist in the direction of potentially interesting negative stories, but it's always been around it's just that now because information is available in so many in such a more thorough and because it's so available to all if feels like a tiny little mermaid can create huge waves and I think unigreen because it is a good example of that but I'm going back to unit there Shakespeare In Love vs.

Saving Private Ryan controversy.

That was all sorts of talk of the mysterious phone calls being made it separate set and a yeah.

There's always listening.

It's a it's a very hard fought campaign and huge number of people consultants upon consultants become a pun console not all of them follow the Roebuck you know by every line of that and and certainly it's it's certainly true to say that every year there are.

You know I've negative campaigning one sort of sort or another and I'm sure that will continue to update the president of the United States at the moment, but it is received it seems quite tough on the people involved that they have to have such a part.

That's very low but yeah, I mean listen.

I think that's just that's just the way it that's just the way it goes it's become to become so high profile.

It's as we discussed before it's responsible for such a large amount of money.

You know those campaigns and whether you win them are not that it is bound to result in in people digging up old you know past misdemeanors and trying to use against the filmmakers off today.

It was interesting that I think the Producers Guild really made a statement by giving there a water green book.

They would just saying this is.

Boys we don't care about this stuff actually.

We think it's wrong that people doing this and we're going to give give the price to greenbrook anyway, so one final question asked her briefly noted this popular film category last summer before hastily retracting it and if at this year's best picture nominations to reflect a little bit of a they have some commercial success stories amongst the number including black panther in Bohemian Rhapsody which we've talked about.

Would you have welcomed a popular film category back in the day Daniel back at BVI Rebecca you know any earlier in your career or do you think that's something that you don't think it's really necessary and do those days.

I think it's unnecessary.

I think you know that the you get a pretty good representation.

Is this year's nominations have demonstrated of of quality and quantity and I don't see any reason to mess with it.

I think the Academy have enough to focus on.

Example finding a host of the show without worrying about creating extra categories, they have the way that the cookie has crumbled has been actually been great having a set of a warden films that are engaging audiences.

You've not only got black panty also got films like Bohemian Rhapsody in the Star Is Born wishing a genuinely genuinely popular films well as you know a crowd-pleaser type movie like green book and maybe doesn't have the box office but does have broad appeal and in the UK you know the movie that Israel packing in the Houses is the favourite you know which is is gone way beyond.

I think what anyone would have probably anticipated.

I think the idea of clarity is such a set of subjective think the favourite is a popular populist film and it's only 14 million at the UK box office that means a very wide audience has seen it.

And it didn't need to be termed a popular film in order for that to happen.

It's just an incredibly entertaining and very high quality film and that's that's what it takes troll spin and Daniel thank you very much.

Very good luck with your upcoming ceremonies for cold war and the favourite and thanks for joining us.

Thank you.

Thank you.

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Subscription is required terms and conditions apply overpaying for an old phone Jack mobile mobile and increase value deals on the latest phone £170 mobile.co.uk at this year's BAFTA film awards ceremony Elizabeth Crossing and Stephen Woolley will be honoured with the outstanding contribution to British cinema award the producers of such a claim features as Carol made in Dagenham and Elizabeth and Stevens that was screen internationals senior reporter Tom greater discuss what it's like to navigate the Awards season trail it's a journey that goes all the way back to 1992 the Crying Game which chain.

Game for independent films being recognised by the Oscars here Steven there was a little bit of worry from all of us about how the film Would fair, because the UK release the Crying Game that was ok, but it wasn't spectacular and the UK response the film was ok, but it wasn't spectacular so when we had our first screening at 10 arrival first top McCarthy from from variety said the producer Steven we got up say on stage and said don't give away the twist and I feel right.

I won't give away the twist but but I thought the film was something more than that so when it happened he was quite stopped and I think people were shocked and turn around and they wrote incredibly well about the film and it was like sending a message Neil think it's ok.

We going off like a light vehicle off the explorers and tested the water and people really really have to fill and we got very.

No, because we wanted that twist to be something we originally tried in the UK and work in the UK we giving her Presley's same please don't give away twist, but there's use my credit card into mermaids for the publicity and marketing at the film and I have to say they deserve a lot of it because I worked really hard on it, but didn't have a poster for the film when we released it the window posters and cinemas near 11 New York trying to see how the first audiences will respond and those actually no posters because I couldn't work out.

They just didn't know quiet didn't like the title because they bought the film called the soldiers wives didn't like the title of Crying Game so they had to come up with the strapline for the poster which they did very well, which was the strapline was play it at your own risk because they wanted that trailer aspect in there and they felt the Crying Game played to sound like a melodrama so like a lot of British and European films it.

Survived the critics the critics went overboard for the Crying Game that won't just at first with you in Brighton and Tom McCarthy wasn't a good review it wasn't a great with you.

It was stupendous.

It was awesome praising every single moment and that's kind of sort of what European and British pounds needed at that point so the campaign whilst it was very good was based on those two things the twist let's keep the secret of the Crying Game and that the secret it was really really really just constantly drum time and the critics just loving the film.

There's a wards getting on and all those things and obviously it wasn't your first success, but what do you think having such a significant impact on the order at what did that do for your careers? Did that move the

What are the reason that we travel to work every morning other and chauffeur driven Rolls-Royce and have her own private flea a private jets.

It's because the success of the huge impact on us on both of us really and allowed me to go into to make the film with Warner Brothers which three films after with the studios with me and we are able to know we were able to get set up some of our projects.

He wants to make it a little bit make little voice not long after that.

So yeah, I did it made of he was a huge difference to us and I mean I think Awards can do that.

You know that you're a bit as producers.

You're only good as your next movie.

I mean it's very hard to make unique or original movies which is what we try and do and

Start again, you know we can we start again.

We don't continue on that franchise upward Curve we generally like snakes and Ladders to get slide number in 98 and and a ladder and go back to one again, so we will generally go in a circle and the nature of of we do in the film business.

We like to work with good different voices and and on the good unique projects, but I think that for me one of the most memorable things about screening the film in telluride was the response of the audience and back then I mean 26 years ago.

It was 26 getting en427 probably it was a very small festival and the audience were so struck by that.

On in very deep profound ways and I remembering particular a couple who were middle-aged middle-aged couple perhaps retired to that are quite cultured who came up and started talking about the experience of their child and really what the film did for people that I think they found entertaining but also that it presented a trans character and a character who love and be loved and presented a scenario where Steven Reyes character assumed that he was entering a relationship with a woman and then you have this moment and it really put right in the centre this question of why discriminate against people suddenly because you find out there.

Physical member or they are you know it just it really put that question right there and it really captured people and people whose children had been you know the victims of can't do you send discrimination and remember the film really came on the back of you had Reagan and you had bush and you had all the legislation that was being introduced against homosexuality and you know that you had the political groups like active in Gran Fury who were demanding that the government pay attention to people who were dying in thousands from AIDS and and this film really came just after in the midst of all of that going on and I think that was also very very important that it registered in the way that films unit like Philadelphia starter kiss the Spider Woman or and that was definitely a part of it and it was just very very moving to see how deeply affected people were about that movie and said thank you so much.

Call let's flash Forward to 2019 let me take the opportunity to congratulate you on the BAFTA that you received this year for outstanding contribution to British cinema.

What does that mean to use independent producers extraordinary? It was almost impossible to process reading the first line of a letter because you know you just get your head down and work and despite what people say.

Oh you deserved.

It was overdue or you know you don't expect mission of this level to happen and it was extremely rewarding and very gratifying and in very humbling and just saying think we've worked away and you've had your ups and you've had your Downs and it's just all about the work in films and passion and to be recognised by a body like the British Academy is for your output.

Tremendous really tremendous your we we we represent I suppose quite a last portion of the business has independent producers and obviously we like to think this award.

Isn't is although this for us personally and they are giving us one each which was very important that I established established that because you know it never happens with only been together for a while.

So yeah, I know all joking aside it really is an award for all independent producers and everything that everyone struggles for and and we have been around for a very long time and we do like to take risks and we do like to work with filmmakers are also prepared to take risks and you know sometimes that that does go on you know sometimes your films don't get the nominations you want on sometimes you feel like you're so screaming in the dark and it is lovely.

To turn around say all you know his knowledge moment you do exist and soda all the other people like you the so we're very very thrilled by this and you know it is a celebration for us.

We wanted to be a celebration.

It's fun.

It's something that you know it never happened to us.

We're never going to back towards 9226.

Lot of the nerves of the evening.

You know when Elizabeth and I will not release of the Carol we got nine nominations.

I didn't win one which means there were nine lots of different people who is slightly disappointed end of the Affair we got 10 nominations only 11 award, so we don't have to contend with all those other people because this produces you don't expect it in a way where I'm always thinking well if it comes out tonight, but would be nominated.

How great is that? You know I remember with Mona Lisa

Bobble with one so we would go to all the all the all the festivals and everybody evolving the film Norbit win which was brilliant for Bob but always a bit like it's a shame we didn't get something.

Can I see some Grey in the movie? You're the best screenplay? You know you always think and no problem is your wardrobe and I think you know for us.

It's a bit of relieved to go on staff there and not and not have to disappoint the downside is of course that we're going to have to say something profound and and fairly wise and a very short in a very short speech because otherwise will be cut out and we won't be shown on the telly and so I think that's that's a bit of that's that's the only thing is to be nerve-wracking is to have known for so long but

Genuinely as I say all joking aside.

We are pretty astonished and pretty but you know we feel very honoured collaboration is completely a comparative form of business and arts and we have had people that we worked with three decades and you feel their joy and so you're definitely sharing this recognition and the award with all of those people that have collaborated with because they make you look much better than you probably are the people around you and I think that's a really important thing to hold onto but I also feel that winning twice a winning not we haven't as we've been recognised with us award in this year.

I feel very excited buying Move by because when you look in particular.

The best foreign films and you'll see the range of those stories and you see all of those things that I think we have been fighting for things that have driven asses telling stories about people who were typically you're outside us on the margins and you'll see you know the first film that I worked on parting glances and then we're Stevens Workmate sand and then two of us with the Crying Game in on you know Carol and all the films that we've told and you look at the films this year.

Are you know like Roman cold war and Capanna man I mean I think there's such brilliant brilliant films and I think they really show in they show the themes and the individual and the causes and the artistry that really have driven us as filmmakers and it feels such an honour when I look at those films that have been nominated in the

Behind them and thank god.

We are here this year with that group.

It's great.

It's a great feeling.

How do you think you was season has changed over the years does it become more influential independent filmmaking? I think it has become more influential an awful.

Lot of the Awards are driven by publicity and spend the money.

I'm that's really sad.

I'm not saying that they haven't always been but as we move into an age where newspapers and print doesn't mean as much you know people think of new ways of of getting people's attention.

I mean you know we get some DVDs of films and just without seeing any titles united one particular film we will send 8 DVDs off and that's a title that did get quite highly prominent recognition so it.

I'm in the campaigning is no more sophisticated for me the difference of their campaign during the time of the Crying Game and little voice was very very different from the experience on Carol the machine is so much bigger and so much more demanding and so many people are involved in it and their level of sophistication and strategizing a minute.

Just felt like it was a sort of them presidential campaign in many ways and it is quite grueling and demanding for the filmmakers.

I mean there's a lot of travel and you know not complaining about it, but it was like and Olivia Colman said something in the Guardian not long ago.

It really is very grueling and you you have to just block out 6-months and sometimes.

There's two so we just have to move to LA for 6-months and I think it's hard can be hard on.

Also, because you feel sometimes that you're an environment where your pitted against each other fortunately.

I found them in the of Carol that you know edguy neihu wonderful person a great friend.

He was there with some room and all of the the team of spotlight with there and actually we all just became really friendly and we're joke about it.

Would be at the next airport like a tractor pulling out bags off for the next session and the next panel and it was a lot of fun, but it was demanding and I think that it's also sort of effective distribution of it because for independent films to get out their distributors feel you need to have nominations and Awards behind them to give them a real shot at breaking out and so consequently those this logjam a letter released around this time which is not really that healthy because some of them just I'm not gonna fair in that Lions Dan of lobbying and competition.

And some organisations, do you have many many more research resources to put behind that program so I think hopefully it will self-correcting people will think you know what let's just take that film out.

I mean filmisnow independence March as a good year.

So you'll see some films that are you know what that's just not even be a part of that.

It's just too expensive it's too crazy and we're not going to rise above it and if we don't we'll just left behind will be left behind we were able to compete so just riddles are moving them out and thinking will put them in the Spring but there is a lot of pressure you feel love you have to make a phone that is going to be able to compete in that raise, so that distributors feel they have more of a chance to get the box office Returns on that in London film but it's much much bigger.

I mean it is changed beyond recognition from when we first did it years ago the reports recently that Netflix it's been up to 25 million.

Campaign for Roma and what he made her that that's what I was saying I mean for normal amount of money.

I spent because you know it's just cast a corporate level and it's perhaps has become increasingly aligned with business plans and what those Awards do two shareholder prices and what potential is for a business which is subscription-based and how you bring more subscribers.

You know there is often an argument that economic imperatives are the best way of breaking down boundaries that exist around race and gender and you know they women report into the workforce because the machine needs to keep going and needs to be in so you know the fact that a film.

Like Roma which is at the centre or women and you know the story of a housekeeper a mother those types of characters are Mexicans not the English language wouldn't really be seen in a macerated level in the way that you now with the Netflix to campaign and you know in the political climate that we are in.

I would say that that is a very fine thing.

I mean not only are they celebrating a phone which really is a masterpiece, but it also is celebrating a story which I really do believe cinema is Ava in some ways to change the cultural and says your political landscape.

So yes, they are spending that money and there is many different reasons why but I think there are many positives is there.

You could say negative then.

I think that Carlos corens comment which I know he was quite spiky about what Netflix distribution whatever however that happens with a streaming platform meant for that film was very very apt and you needed to listen to it to confuse content was in fact and The Gambler Netflix have made in investing that money and I have no idea investing to board 25000000 play.

I'm sure I'm sure that that is close to 25 million the newest to Bob but whatever that person is is the argument and this is what can buy kanban Netflix the argument is very claim all to see which is that if you go if you put huge amount of money into.

Really like Roma and it's what it's one or my Oscars there's no question in my mind of all the films.

I seen Roma is probably the one night.

Love however if that does when the Oscars has Netflix film and that the only way of seeing that film really is on Netflix because it won't didn't my description you got some distribution and if it's because I put all the money into it.

It does sound a signal and it's not about the content of that film.

It's about what the future is for cinema and how that future could be interpreted as well.

That's cos you know what does the Oscars then become that's all it's not because I've not making anything in about it.

I'm just playing out what we're seeing you are questioning.

Wow, it's changed.

You know it you can compare it to say you know other move is which of which have been astonishingly revitalise by you have been thrust into the mainstream by the Oscars you know films like pregnant mountain princess.

You know which maybe nobody would have seen with all the Oscars you can list all of these great movies that the Oscars have given the big lift up to and always great filmmakers and directors notes and writers, but this is a different phenomenon this isn't about a spanish-language black and white winning an Oscar will be nominated.

It's about a big company like Netflix coming in and doing something that is a is different and different Manchester by the sea with Amazon this is slightly different this is an effort level so that is a discussion as to take place at some point how much impact do you think that Romans promise?

Make a potentially have on the success of foreign language and languages struggled in markets such as the us and the UK in recent years teacher there and there's been quite a bit of conversation at the moment.

How subtitled foreign language television shows are travelling without any problem and if demographic of watching those shows as quite young then you're creating a scenario where those young consumers that this letter called now of these stories.

Don't have a problem with subtitling and I think that creates a foundation of acceptance which will cross over into cinema and I think that the success of Rama will definitely raise.

I think the profile of foreign films and hopefully create deeper and wider in.

Particularly younger demographic I think that's where the challenges are the one thing we've learnt and certainly I've learnt in 40 years is the change change change is always changing every year.

There's something is I still come around the corner whether it's you know when I first started on in the early 80s.

There was no VHS and power and Peter and who's going to win the hs1 on my god is going to sleep the country and nobody but didn't happen.

If one cinema more that and then of course there was satellite Skies come in sky cannibal the movie channels with 100 movie channels and it's going to go watch films as 100 movies to watch it didn't happen and then DVDs Cayman DVDs lovely little things you can take them anyway can show them anywhere as it and it goes on and now we have Amazon and Netflix and it's all going on Hulu and Robin we watching like box sets for the rest of our lives novas, Leighton cinema.

Will it make it maybe this? Is it maybe this is the Armageddon that we've all been talking about and I better doubt it.

How's things will not necessary remain the same and things will change so we very optimistic and things will always come round to Great stories and we always fighting scrape voices and the quiet voices in the voices and no one hears however.

There is the normal back of my head this idea of how now, it's about the economic necessity to sustain Cinemas under sustained exhibition and sustained against the grain is out there which is Tina and property development and all those things and do you know how do you forward have your cinema and how can you afford to keep that going and you know we to help support the idea of Independence Of Independence we want to support the idea that the Independence can still the same themselves would they?

Side of the hits and the downside of the Mrs cos we got to make a lot of Mrs to make a few hits so the worry is that there's Mrs The Hunger Games that Steve McQueen made all the Returns Davis films all in my case, you know going way back the dairy jarmyns and the can loaches and you know they don't they don't walk Snowdon to film festivals and take all the Awards they're to make a lot of movies do we need to make the flops for fucking make that we sadly powers got another two Oscar nominations, but she stuck restarting without harming and answer and So It Goes we need to make the Pops so we need to have an industry that can sustain that and I'm not just a talking about the Ape I'm talking about it and independent industry, so that's the fear that's worry.

That's true today.

My thanks to Daniel battsek, Steven Willey Elizabeth cross and my colleagues controls and Tom and of course.

Thank you for joining us.

Polymetal return with the regular Media podcast next week and will be back in a few weeks time with my colleague from broadcast magazine take over to discuss them and fixed trends in the Global TV market to get that episode make sure you on Apple podcasts Google podcasts and a whole load podcast apps just search for Media business podcast and subscribe and please head over to screen daily.com for a daily news coverage of the internet by overpaying for an old phone Jack mobile mobile and increase value deals on the latest phone.

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