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Dacre s OFCOM, ITV s bounceback BBC vs S…

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How much you give and there's no regular commitment just hit the link in the description to support now hello welcome to media podcast find Matt Deegan what's on the programme ITV bounce back with revenues up on the before x the BBC's under scrutiny is the M6 partnership with stone war and in the media quiz we learn a novel way to get you out.

That's all coming up in this edition of the media podcast and TV in the gold wallets Faraz Osman how are you and your new hot seat the first of this pod with you but front and centre.

Thank you very much.

Yes, I'm very good lock to my

Little audio box but I believe that congratulations are in order.

Yeah, we we we wanted to Pannal Ward for a preschool education for our Show what's on your head yesterday actually, it's hot off the press.

So yeah, I had a very nice sushi lunch to celebrate your delicious and I suppose you couldn't get to Japan so today we in I mean.

I'm not I'm slightly better about that, but yes it was very much sir as zoom flight to Tokyo and I've always wanted to be that never met you mind to get to so who knows maybe we'll be extended invitation for the next season next year next year.

It's the EVP of TV consultancy 3vision Jack Davidson hi Jack I'm going to be here good to have you here so you've been doing some research recently on the streaming Wars have you got any top data to titillate our listeners?

Latest Disney's results came out today which which which are not so good and their story is is it is just lost after after a fairly strong as you say what always covering the streaming waters and it is it is a fascinating time definitely obviously it's competitive but how the different studios in a different label players that kind of navigating this this more competitive environment.

I think one of the most fascinating is it almost seems now the US studio success depends on what happens everywhere else outside of the US a complete Reversal of how they always used to before when when they were sort of totally dependent on the networks domestic market.

Selling my stuff to channels like the old days the early period of the global launches people skimmed over their kind of complicated side of the issue of launching globally such as kind of MBC significant interest in Skye in Skye markets.

Such as kind of warning medias long-running output deals that go to 2025 and money and she's having to be address now and and I think kind of not just actually that that joint venture time that the embassy in viacomcbs launched, but how that also all of the activity that fits together so the viacom CBS venture paramount plus is going to be part of my in the UK but it in on Sky Marcus it will be part of Sky showtime and and then likewise kind of although not tied could have channel carriage deals have been done at the done it simpler times.

What are the things that are happening that revealing colour of the more detailed complex act aspective? What otherwise they used to call a global streaming roll, and I'm sure they're big spreadsheet that you guys have to keep track of all these things someone probably not known for spreadsheets full data format editor-in-chief of the Daily Mail could he really end up as the chair Ofcom that's the question men in the sexual now asking you delete syndicating interview panel with sizeable conservatively contingent the Guardian the latest panel member is Michael who worked as an advisor to conservative Ministers during the 1990s before co-founding the polling company populous as a quick reminder daycare was interviewed for the role earlier this year any failed the final interview the job was then re-advertised by the government and is expected to reapply and it seemed to be the top Choice for the government.

Can you explain why this pairing of off common Dacre is hard for us to get our heads around but government seemed to really do have them in mind and I think that in our yet.

There's people that have a have it drilled into us around impartiality and what we expect at the meet you in this country to do particularly because I'll either our television and broadcasting Media in this country is so healthy because it is meant to be unbiased from from political persuasion to have somebody coming who is so clearly from a newspaper space which doesn't have the same rules about impartiality as a broadcasting space and has a clear political slant.

Who is that that supports the current in power at the moment.

There are a lot of question marks about the the reasoning as to why he's the best person for the job and is it because he has the best political view for the job or is it?

Is legitimately the best person to be sharing this very important regulator so I think that that's a question that being held and obviously a lot of what does regulates the BBC and and that's the kind of big part of of water looking at here and and as we continue to have question marks around what is slightly call the culture Wars and and this government's insistence on on stoking knows what is is, what it seems at this distance in another strike crossbow assuming that he gets the job.

It is odd recruitment process that you would have somebody that wasn't for the job seemingly in previous instance and then process is rerun with different people making that decision and desert is a data general concern that this was a foregone conclusion before even started and I have to say with the recent scandals have been going through the government.

Patterson and and and how that's all kind of play doubt it does feel like this is one of those things where it's going to be interesting to see how far this government can push to you to rewrite the rules in their favour and and this may be the next shop that comes along the corner whether or not they can whether it is is going to be is going to be seen but it's a worrying time for anybody leaving impartiality and broadcasting about regulate it regulates industry radio even the post office and it's going to soon play the internet.

What do you think we'd expect from a a Decker heaven knows what to expect from that I couldn't agree more with what virus just said it beggars belief that you could resubmit a reformulation to be policy and then someone could come in and qualify.

It's a bit like kind of rewriting allrecipes, isn't it?

The vendors what I do know is it would worry me.

How likely is it? He's going to get the job give me a give me your percentage.

What do you think my god? I wouldn't bet against it is my is my short answer that I think that because it's because generated so much.

I mean we don't even know he's applied for the job again.

Is you know it is unclear as to whether or not even in the running and put himself in the running to go through this process of left associated properly this week in tea and also they've they changed the the job descriptions were and if you can you can read into them that fit slightly better to the current job description than the one he failed last time like a real robust case to say this is why they going to do it because it is so controversial and actually you could probably find somebody else that has got similar political persuasions, but isn't as in the public.

To take this position and it would be much quieter and may even have the same impact.

I think it's one of those things were de kerys is almost bigger than the regulator themselves and you know it's one of these can be such a presence and I figured it would almost overshadow, what is there any word that have come to moving forward which I think is going to be problematic for them.

So it seems a bit to me about wideacre.

What to do this when what's the what's the purpose for other than they just one another person to 2-0 to BBC over the head with cos he's obviously not a big fan of the BBC it has to be said you know it is very easy to criticise Paul Dacre and say that he's you know he said he's an ogre of the broadcasting industry and we should we should do everything that we can't stop him from taking the job, but he has grown one of the most successful media Brands in the country and admitted it to 2 online and away the very few other papers have been able to do but maybe the Guardian you know the date.

Is a is a massive juggernaut when it comes to its international presence and then you could argue that there is a there is some validity in in his experience from from that point of view my understanding is that it became such a big online Brand and so you know I'm sure he has got strong case for why he is an exceptional candidate for this position, but that comes with it.

Just feels at the film Jackie Toomey also going to be surprised on how much work is going to have to do on broadband pricing and postal regulation as well and that you were scared to spend this time make it harder for the for the BBC to exist to be doing some DAB plus stuff as well.

That's that's yeah.

All of that if I was not coming executive.

I'd be piling up his injury with incredibly boring things and see how he finds that somebody who regulates TV at the moment with revenues up.

Up and better than pre covid levels Jack items revenues, not just add sales, is it what else is in the mix the mix of of that sells I guess as well.

What's the what's the revenue but there was also ITV Studios which period after after wool production based companies struggle during coving during the lockdown in kuragin results their total revenue reserve the digital engagement figures that kind of all of them.

I think kind of ITV hub users registered users more people viewing but behind that and I haven't looked entirely that data, but what I've looked at the data before any time is a big football tournament and anytime love that has a big impact on the digital numbers and both of those events have occurred in this period so I I think they kind of my view is yes.

What's a good but actually in from a digital point of view? I don't feel that still doing enough.

I don't think they're giving digital enough kind of primacy or even kind of play away in the same way the other European broadcasters are doing it is tough of that same challenges traditional business is still delivering cash like it.

It's it's hard, but my concern would be they need to drive more users and heated kind of get people more addicted to the total service.

I think I think they said they've got 30 million registered users and a 9.6 million monthly averages for my question would be kind of wood are all the other registered users doing every month and and and they talked about improving a content proposition on the hub describe.

It is extending catch up and do more boxset launches analyst something about short form again.

I think they're behind in ambition terms of other broadcasters here they still.

Letting the broadcast channels kind of lead and not giving mushroom advantage or even fair wind ft for the hub, and I think they could do more than set rule sofa for britbox.

I mean I mentioned a britbox number which let's be honest very underwhelming he even though they said that they are pushing the A4 side of things to describe how planet V currently working very well and that sort of this is growing it kind of it.

Just seems to sort of those underwhelming confused position with that that way but they've had new shows on ITV that had shows for Netflix If I chose to Apple TV Plus what's doing yeah? I think there's hybrid model of having a broadcaster also being studio which is similar to What sky have as well.

You know they have the technology almond and they have their you know they have their own.

Making it is a model that seems to be working across the board because he can effectively spread your bets around content either.

You make it yourself from people and you broadcasted and you take your time on the advertising space all you take to climb on the S4 space being in both actually feels like quite sensible strategy for a lot of broadcasters and I have to say raises questions about the future Channel 4 and under questions around privatization if if ITV are able to be successful in that hybrid model it makes a case for not writing Channel 4 at a little bit tricky or I will argue also like if I was to jump on my own spec you know my own train to the speculation argue that a lot of this might be to do with that apples restrictions around Cook mobile phone privacy data which is had a massive impact on places like Facebook which is gobbled up all of the advertising revenue for such a long time if you're in advertising now you would probably.

And I have no to be absolutely clear.

I don't have any particular inside knowledge around it, but you know if I was to just look at it as an outsider if you saw what happened to wear so that app on this thing where you don't have to opt in to allow tracking across your devices and across your different apps if you use an Apple device which has hit Facebook business model quite hard because they use the talk to get from the use of tax information to get better yields and better click-throughs on US dollars, may flow back to traditional advertising spots to exist on things like ITV so this may be the beginning of her other kind of re-emergence of traditional advertising picture.

Just be a bit because lots of people at home and watching telly, so therefore advertising revenue became more valuable.

Are you not going to the cinemas for instance? You know when Cinemas last you so it be interest.

The signs for next year but I think the ITV's model of having having their own programming they make for broadcasters.

Don't have advertising like apple and Netflix and all the right channel where they could they can leverage the advertising revenue is a sensible and strong one as we continue to evolve through this market and I do think we are now settling down into a mix of advertising and subscription that programming and and people like ITV at the forefront of that.

I may be crazy for Apple to be the savior of TV advertising you mention their channel for a point of the time.

They close securing in multi-million pound deal for the Great British Bake Off and sort of associated spin-offs, how important is Bake-Off 2 Channel 4 right now.

I mean like this is no there's no bigger show it's the real both Revenue and eyeball driver for Channel 4.

I don't know what is that so I know they launch was down quite significantly on previous years and you know again.

I haven't watched this season like I have checked out after the first episode.

I haven't seen as many people talking about it.

There doesn't seem to be a breakthrough character that we had in previous years does that mean? It's going to be easier to renegotiate for Channel 4 does that mean it's not the the prize cow that used to be is all it all off today, but I do think that we are definitely in a in a world right now where the Next Hit is need to be found because I think we've got two point now where people have gone a bit stale on very well if you if you want some tips catch up with Bake Off on all 4 and it's free from week this week, but just got up Jack is having that Bake-Off still going to make channel for more attractive potential commercial backers with advertisers, but I guess even with the whole Channel 4 being being up for grabs.

I'm not sure it's a big program.

It would be fairly narrow-minded view of any of anyone either buying or looking at buying all planning a cell to think about two Factor just that I mean wheel loader the bullet points on channel 48 independence.

It's definitely unique status and and the fact that kind of selling it raises a few Challenge For The Independent production industry with actually just not long ago.

We completed a survey of the production industry impact survey for the Producers association and we're just about to finish the export survey that we do every year for them as well and unfortunately not quite finished.

I can't tell you the numbers but but the feedback from within that actually about Channel 4 with kind of the smaller Indies we're going to be a lot of trouble if it is Channel 4 with was going to be so.

And that's under understated yet.

They were going to go Boston and then they leave the market and I don't mean it is important to the Independent production industry.

I think then the question is kind of what's the rationale for it.

Can you sell it and and put it in the provides those the protect that just end up in a world of circular contradictions if you did you're not going to get a value for the value for the thing why you doing in the first place so I was I was pleased to hear the response to the consultation with extensive and big from lots of people and I was pleased almost see a breathless government thinking well to stop and think about this but who knows what's going to happen.

I heard Rachel Johnson speak yesterday about government.

On the stories and other media policy and she was saying that the things interesting no one knows quite yet whether she's just there is a place woman to do what the Conservatives and what price Johnson wants but she said yeah this might be the highest level she can get to in cabinet.

So we'll see use that to to do a good job and sort of stick there for a long time and give some of her abuse.

I think we flick between Channel 4 saved and then suddenly channels not being saved go on give you tomorrow you reckon next year ended up being the odds tracker for the bookings feel like I should be taken from this log off to be honest.

I mean I think the jackpot in like I don't want you selfish about it, but frankly the impact it has on other companies is a bigger.

That's the most biggest all the Channel 4 right I run a small indeed and if you're going to throw yourself without any ignore the whole.

This is a terrible idea.

You know it's not channel for everybody was exactly Channel 4 commissioning editors at their everyone that's kind of like got to nip to the higher echelons immediate.

They're going to be alright.

You know we landed big jobs at places like Amazon and Disney etc.

Going to be not worried about whether or not going to pay the mortgage in in the next year people like us are right.

You know when a small production company having a customer be taken off the table simply because of some some weird logic around they've kind of concocted around you know the future Channel 4 is a real concern.

There is a legitimately a debate to be had around Channel 4.

It's well overdue about whether or not Channel 4 is meeting it's really and then to go back to the conversation around Bake-Off you know love Productions isn't this Auction Company and its part owned by Sky if I understand right this again the people that run that company.

I'm going to lose sleepover Channel 4 disappears tomorrow.

You'll find another buyer for The Incredibles

Grabbing that the issue, is is that while Channel 4 continue to be distracted by those big deals and a big brands which frankly have found success on other channels and they're bringing them over and shipping them over raising the price of them.

It's the smaller Indies attic and left out in the cold and where the ones that kind of Uno champion it can I get you need to save this even port for business? It's really really essential.

Yes the voices from the bigger in these have come out there as well frankly know that the pressure on them is less significant and you will be companies like cars that will go to the wall and but we haven't if I'm being brutally honest and it's probably a controversial thing to say publicly but we haven't really had a huge amount of love from Channel 4 back about whether or not this is how we are meant to be surviving this and you know I wouldn't I would very much like to see for spending time renegotiating the Great British Bake Off and spend more time celebrating the small and medium-sized in the community.

That's out there that will be lost and as a result television creativity will be lost if if this continues.

To go to the reckon, it's going in so Indies but from a slightly different angle one.

Sorry that came out of the radio cademy Festival last week.

Oh by the way bonus episode we gonna possessions on This podcast feed there was some music about a new fund for emerging Indies have a look at what Charlotte more announced last week really confident in the way that they are trying to mix things up to to create a whole new world supplies out there.

There's the economy exact title of it, but there's a bit of separate project that be around to doing this like an innovation space that don't work in radio at all.

Which looks like it's going to be quite successful and got some strong ideas has come through as well and click Mia is that up and I think that is really a smart way of Kinder go in Worle actually audio Azur medium has changed quite significantly and we can have some new entrance coming to this space and see if they can.

Tried you think that the radio is very particular way of making radio which meant that it was the kind of custodian of a few production companies, but I think now that podcasting and got into it.

Yeah, I'm sitting here with a little podcasting desk and we've made podcast for the BBC couple of small podcast as well.

So this sort of thing is really interesting to companies like are so while there are three spaces the innovation of opening up the supplier base 22 smaller companies like classes is super interesting and will certainly excited to see where it goes and will certainly be picking her off feather in the cap.

That's not right.

What is it? I'll calling in the world.

I don't know what the right now.

Love you, but you picture of what she was a quarter of a million-pound fund first of all the ideas.

I know that radio Indies historically have never really had any development money.

It was so expected that you use underdevelopment yourself and then you hope to get a

Lighter on where is Telly should have had had that a little bit a bit longer I mean turn the money's important for any Media is not for us and that's actually one of the biggest that we have a production companies is trying to figure out how much of your own money and time you invest into development for an idea that you know the may not be invoked by the time you get to the other end of it and and have that balanced out is is essential when it comes to creativity because you're de-risking the you know the ideas that you can have in there for you can be a bit more ambitious around them.

So I think it's a really great and I think the development in in television.

Is is very much around the idea of let's try things out and if they don't work at least we've given put the Investment in in time effort and money to to see if we can make it work and I think the audio will end up with some better more exciting ideas as a result of it and you know some of the audio work that BBC sounds of doing yes and b.

Like you don't have you heard George's podcast but it is exceptional in the way that Radio 4 was always seen and Radio 3 that matter was always said is exceptional in yesteryear so I think the FA can be on the front that then you know I can all credit to them and I think it will need it will need development money it can't just be the custodian of wealthy people and and you know hobbyists it has to get them require a decent business plan behind it inherited it all now as the BBC's go ahead a content but are there any schemes in TV that the radio sector could learn from what in particular the fact that kind of TV is had support whether it's been at the high-end with the kind of tax relief that support that Productions had to had it.

Tax on on the amount of money that came into into drama production and just support from my go back to the 2003 communication act and how they kind of change is round and make sure that there was investment and a thriving kind of production community and that pay dividends because it built what is kind of one of the most kind of one of the largest I get creative and and commercially successful can a production sectors there is so probably like that.

I'm no expert on radio but I as a consumer in the listener.

I have a feeling that it's going in a nice Direction and it really interesting things happen and I think kind of yes investment in this is got to be good and will benefits come out of it.

Definitely demand from other companies something like in setting for a long time.

I just don't have actually the phone when he goes to people you know it's extra hours.

It's extra.

Day's freelance work.

It's not making people spend time to helping ideas that you then pitch to the BBC know it give them some money for that working with the show doesn't get commissioned thing that's that's in the UK already pushing for is tax credits.

Just pick up what you were saying their Jack because the tax credits have delivered a lot of TV investment and production for non-uk territories podcast audio books all that sort of thing so if the government do you want to build Back better and such things a small ASDA small amount of money tax credits would potentially make quite a difference the budgets with radio to be honest.

I understand the TV so what magnitude.

Play 50000 in development, but it's good proposal, but it is it significant enough is enough.

Do you think it's more than 0 right and I think that in development previously then there wasn't any so you know the audio is both cheaper to to make them TV obviously but also you know it's if therefore more more difficult to build a company because you know the revenues and the bottom line is an emergency dentist broaders as they are in in video one thing.

I think it is worth noting.

Is that from what I've seen again.

We've done some audio work and I'm very passionate about audio but the world that we are completely two feet in and and what what I've seen as an outsider is IP in audio is becoming more and more valuable and there are there a podcast have been turned into films are books that be lots of the back of podcast and and I think that like actually let's hope you have a little bit solicitors around this when you do development deals you also then take some of the IP as a result of that as well and

Charlotte quite sabby to this that actually if you're running a corporation that the BBC it's never about just one medium if you can find like there's there's a story out today about Chris Ramsey podcast being TV show that's the sort of thing where I think the BBC I can't go home in a minute if we can do some development in audio.

We may have a lot of a lot of games when it comes to our rubbish at the BBC Met Office and development money for the coming as long as it's not there deciding what gets commissioned.

I think I think I'll be ok now speaking about investment money.

Would you write back? I finally found a way to see a GP around my busy schedule a week.

I found out this morning and sorry GP quickly without leaving the house and the same day.

They take my prescription to the pharmacy down the road sounds great.

Download the Lily up now.

That's living4malaga the services available to anyone in the UK age 16 and Partners in the UK to support the pandemic response reduce the spread of covid-19 misinformation platforms story about Jack and Friday still with me and it's time to say media news in brief at the BBC have pulled out of diversity scheme organised by the lgbtq + charity, Stonewall

Very heated social media response to a podcast series investigating Stonewall by 5 Live Stephen Nolan BBC about we're being pressured into sex by some trans women which was positioning lesbians is being pressured into sex by transferring which David then decided to edit is under the past couple of weeks.

What do you make about? What's been going on and the response to actually this day sort of decisions impact those Communities and their voices.

I would argue not being heard in after it is important to note that the BBC is a significant work place.

It's not a place output and so when only things happened.

It has a very chilling effect on other Communities and and I would say that you know this feels a little bit worrying because we've had a similar sort of.

Came out around what happened with Marcus Ryder and the fact that he got overlooked for the the news beach up because of his campaigning work and I think Tim Davie is very much use the DJ the BBC is very much come out quite publicly and said that you know we need to do more to make sure that we are you know we're not being seen as taking a political stance one Way Or Another and there is a lot of value around that but the problem that this is creating is Communities with inside the BBC and people that may want to work for the BBC are having too kind of reconsider what they can be public about and the biggest issue for me.

Is that the trans community have some of the most horrific statistics around around violence and suicide that is kind of almost been brushed aside in this debate about about gender rights and and gender identity and that's a real concern because if you're somebody working within the BBC right now today who is having is having thoughts about their gender identity.

Then this news comes out and you know that your workplace is not being a supportive.

Is it can be that can have a real really really damaging effect with to a level that is quite terrifying and I think that we need to be quite careful about how this debate is being played out in to pop in public and buy the new gender but also how it's been played out within workplaces and people's personal lives and because I know you know from what's happening with the Marcus Ryder is incident I have become more conscious about what it is that I would say and how I would say it and and I think that's a concern like you know if I'm somebody that wants to have an opinion around diversity, but I know that that may have an impact on my future career that changes the game and it changes even more significantly from people that don't have power and an already division 2 being made by people that have significant power and that's a real concern for those that are are are in other Communities who simply don't feel like they have a voice in the first place and there seems to be a sort of Us

With the younger employees who and maybe more used to thinking about these issues and having engage with them the Old employees a bit like the the public at large and there's a sort of who's commissioning this material vs.

The older and doesn't it? I mean that's that's kind of years then all these things feel like they are just part of a news agenda and not part of your kind of identity and younger people by their very nature are thinking about who they are and what they want to become and all of Ed Sheeran diversity get mixed up within that there is no doubt that the fish you around the trans community and trans transgender rights and gender identity is becoming another one another part of like.

I mentioned earlier part of this kind of Culture war we have Piers Morgan stick his toe in and you know some outrageous things it's getting clicks.

It's getting newspaper headlines.


People RGB news term throw the Rams in the year and and and and and create programming around it so there is a debate around that and while I would while I'd certainly on the trans identities is not something that is part of impartiality issue.

It's true that some people identify to a different gender to the one that they were born with and that's just the fact.

I don't understand why that isn't seen as the norm there are people that are still going through that process so the best way to go through that process is with the bait.

There's no doubt about that that the issue.

I have when were considering it as a workplace it then if you're debating within a workplace that becomes significantly disruptive and and the cause of real concern to take out to the welfare of your team hills of the Rangers which talks about last time TVs thinking about overhauling their ratings data.

Like seems like Groundhog Day with the emergence of this initiative origin origin.

It is very interesting TV viewing of video viewing and a little place Kinder former TV traditional TV point of view and an online 20 view has been little of challenged area for year is traditional TV regiment bodies that have been kind of changing and improving innovative products for quite a few years, but generally around improving the existing kind of approach to measurement and incrementally adding kind of b.

S the measurements multiscreen measurements.

There's always been from from the temple interview.

There's always been issues with kind of the structure and operation of those times.

That's in the progress that because there's always been from the stakeholders involved in it in the time like total audience measurement.

Yeah, there's different ways they run around the world but it in the UK obviously have bourbon.

It's run by

Is it is a joint kind of industry committee of broadcasters and originally there were very resistant to change again and as a result the good or Barb ratings were the only see advertisers use to accept for TV and even as gonna TV started to Frank maybe catch up during and and and and consolidated view.

It was still kind of the only currency does accepted by the advertisers in and then they started doing initiatives and some of our clients have pay-tv operator had their own initiatives with using the return path data from set-top boxes that people actually using and but you always had a problem that the flow of data was resumed perfect because someone owned a high volume of better quality data that had a smaller volume of data, but it may be better in quality in terms of being able to identify what type of audience it was he they were the demographics and where they were.

The online video comes along and you might have to two sides to it.

You'll have to some of the data that the big tech platforms using foot online video and that feeds the digital video AD systems that are those two never have met properly and people have had problems with comparing those two as well saying it is you're not comparing apples for Apple so and what I find interesting about this initiative is the it seems like it's bringing together lots of the stakeholders important.

They call the social big advertisers and agencies and the global platforms and their aim is to bring together the data from different sources including including and he said that kind of the beaver data from the broadcasters data from the Tech platforms and talking about how they do it with some anonymized mechanism great fantastic.

Really needed improving but let's wait and see we're going to have to see her to get more detail on this initiative something you might have missed the editor of The Evening Standard Emily Sheffield has gone the form of an exact place for about 15 months about how editors at the standard has been hiding recent years.

That's like literally hot off the presses new and used to me kind.

What's interesting is she was really hit by bike over today.

She took over as covage started no one was in town to pick up a standard then went on to like Deliverance the standard at home.

I mean tough time to take over what still a rotary big paper knickers frankly you know commuting into town wasn't a thing anymore so I do think it's a bit of a a shame that she's not been given a chance to mould that title in her own images as good as she.

What to do so it's curious as to why it happened but you put in the same instance if you came into that job Creek overdue.

There's two things that play number one is that going to go back to what it was postcode or do you need a completely new strategy in there for a new editor to take it into internet? What will become the New Normal or whatever you call it now.

You know are people going to meeting in the same way.

Are we going to see as many people going into town and and picking up a newspaper or you are people going to be doing more days of work at home and will that impact the three sheets in a way that they hadn't before her appointment was made.

So you know view it makes sense that completely review all of that and if a part of that reviews suggest search Emily strategy was purely around the printer paper then maybe you do need to have a look at it again, but it does seem a bit curious not to give her at least a chance before as people sought go back into town and back of the desks Jack in the time that she's

Predators and because of the challenges that she's facetiming print Editions off and a half to a small as 28 pages on Sundays can it bounce back as a print titled? It's got a follow the Metro route which is in a similar situation and really Double Down on digital I think maybe that's why I don't think it needs to give up on but it's certainly needs to have the colour of a robust and strong digital strategy.

There's no question.

I did read this story.

I did it does obviously it sounds like bingo calling sometimes when they talk about the amount of money the standard losers like it is it is scary when you kind of read that I think it doesn't help her put aside all of her own merits that after you had someone who is related to David Cameron so I think that that kind of lead to lots of internal maybe Maybe sinason by the sounds of it, but yeah, I think.

There's lots of postcode for questions.

We will have about how we're going to behave but I I feel like the evening Standard will be kind of sitting on the Tube seat next to you for a while to come maybe she might good Ofcom share well that the strong one thing that we don't look for chakra.

C4 though is the media quiz which is purely based on skill and your own personal integrity.

I guess that makes me Mr Chips I'll be removing squares to reveal a quote about a me a story from this week.

There was it it's going to be fine basically are really quotes you tell me who they're talking about will be three rounds buzzing with your name if you know the sofa as will say.

Bras and jackal say Jack dream, but in the very Fabric of British politics and broadcasting and absolute item.

We will miss you this first.

This is Adam Boulton leaving Sky News that is correct to say Kay Burley the very beginning they want many journalist to a loyal to a publication of no, I don't know I'm trying to think there's probably some some BBC

Yeah, I think you still had a great innings at the moment which is amazing and the other one is David Cameron talking to a tree box and kind of kindly points out.

They are there's a whole whole trova.

It'll be alright on the night clips from Adam Boulton that I think that we can definitely commission the Channel 5 show off the back of his leaving tape entertaining imagine right number to buzzing if you know who said this and who they're talking about a right the use of the term pornographer when applied for client bojack actually wrong amazingly seems his by thing has been well known in when he when he bought Channel 5 that you wanted to sort of whitewashes past.

He's taking this to even more incredible Levels by I think it is it Wikipedia he keeps having is Wikipedia entry changed and that he can't be called up.

Yes and also the Guardian looked at this and clearly somebody in his team has been trying to keep editing Wikipedia against the rules to remove a Wikipedia writers a very keen to pop it back in your phone call from Richard Richard Desmond would like you to make it make would like to make you editor am I got amazing Richard Edmonds like elite titles in be like no you're just forget it Wikipedia page when he moved Channel 5 in with his adult TV channels someone morning open the dishwasher to get some mugs out and follow the sex toys that have been cleaned overnight right number 31 or

final one at will crown the winner Daisy can you or your agent pick up the phone we can't keep communicating through Carol Baskin

Faraz yes Ferrari is about a really weird story about her book right so under her book publisher said this yeah, well, you thought it must be it must be her and it's not arrange it for you.

Put publisher is saying something about this weird thing where like a Coopers paid Carole Baskin via cammeo to like faizan gangster book publisher.

So sorry I'm in trouble with the publishers or if not at least having lots of fun with them and so rather than speak Direct she started doing cameo cameos by Carole Baskin to give to give messages to a publisher, but this week the publisher which is penguin have requested their own cameo open Carole Baskin and she has sent a message back.

Shall we?

Let's Hear Daisy's first Carole Baskin message is not going to be talking you guys anymore.

She's going to go through Carole Baskin and bring the message through me to you because you guys are asking for a basket Daisy what she's old.

What were you thinking well done for us.

You are the winner of the media quiz where do I get Carole Baskin to meet up will get someone on cameo to send you a message.

Enjoy this episode.

Why not bonus the price of a hot chocolate at your chalet in the Alps or of a cameo that you might be looking for a colleague.

Just head to the media

That's the media / donate if you've just listen to 50 minutes of this maybe some of the few quid of course follow us to hear new episodes when they drop on your podcast app choice.

It haven't got no just go to pod / the media podcast and that will Direct you to replace to listen you can find my weekly newsletter about the audio industry and the producer was Matt Hill it was a rethink audio and PPM production and we'll see you in a fortnight.

Hello, I'm Jessie Ware from table Manners the podcast now here with my mum died and we have a special bonus episode of table manners coming sponsored by Sainsbury's taste difference autumn edition Range and check it out.

We talked to the fantastic broadcaster and entrepreneur Laura Jackson all about how to her fantastically listen now on your favourite podcast app.

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