Read this: 19/11/2021 Radio 4 Feedback

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts hello after cop26 the future appears, bleak for beef producers, but a recent the Radio 4 The Food programme looks at how meat and dairy can play a positive role for the future of people and the planet some listeners however reacted negatively presented a very biased view of so-called small scale animal farming in the sedition.

I'm a regular to the food programme but this edition was shameful in feedback, this will see if Mr saladino is ship ashore unrepentant and as the green popularity of podcast Mark the beginning of the end of broadcast radio and it's networks what does one of the BBC podcast commissioners if I'm honest I think that radio will be with us for a very very long time and just because I'm like the next Radio 4 on at certain times of the day.

Love that companion abilities that was Rihanna later and feedback.

I'll be discussing some of her commissions and finding out whether Louis Theroux will be back soon with his grounded podcast and R2 out of your comfort zone business are rather confused by an edition of radio 4S new cultural program and its subject the filmmaker.

Michael is making some distinction between naturalism and realism that was it I think he was saying that his movies are one or the other which isn't his enjoy it find out later in feedback.

Radio 4 The Food programme like many others on the BBC's networks responded to what was being disgusted cop26, but it took a markedly different angle it divert addition to examining North need to drastically reduce or even eliminate livestock buttermaking meat production sustainable the programme was called cop26 the case for cattle and pigs here's an extract when our hunter-gatherer ancestors between farmers 10000 years ago.

They not only domesticated wheat and barley, they also domesticated cattle and pigs and created a cycle of food and fertility son into posture posture into dairy dairy internet without fossil fuels and waste only in the last century or so that we began to disassemble that system and here is what some of you have had to say about this edition of The Four

The Sophie Harris from Brighton I thought it was a really excellent program, although I did have to stop listening when the pigs went to the abattoir even though I myself eat free range and organic mates, but I learnt so much in the first 20 minutes or so if the program Naomi from Birmingham I was extremely thankful to finally here serious argument keeping cattle and pigs on Radio 4 often when the environment is discussed the only voice that is heard is the loudest one which calls for veganism and vegetarianism and yes, I strongly believe that this is a short-sighted view of the environmental issues related to agriculture however.

I do agree that as a population.

We need to radically reduce the amount of meat that we can see Dan saladino is the program producers as well as one of the presenters of The Food programme and he presented this edition that your prayers.

They're damn but don't worry the same.

Susan to come but before we get to it.

I want to ask you first.

Why did you decide this was an appropriate program to do links to cop26 absolutely essential that we made this program? We need some calculations put agriculture sort of a quarter of all greenhouse gas emissions that CO2 methane and nitrous oxide as well as being one of the drivers of climate change agriculture and food likely to be adversely affected by rising temperatures and unpredictable weather patterns, so goes to the heart of our agenda.

Looking at the future food.

What we wanted to do in the program that some of the nuances and the complexities of meat and livestock in the context of coffee before we talk about the editor of stars of the programme.

Let's talk about one of the things within it there are specific coverage of an abattoir you recorded taking two pigs to the abattoir new didn't stop outside referred Sophie earlier say that you found that a bit off-putting and we've had this tweet from David black.

After hearing today food programme at lunchtime and listening to the description of the efficient slaughter process of a small abattoir I was glad it was nut cutlets for my Sunday lunch.

So dance.

I don't know why did you have to go inside the slaughterhouse and not switch your recording machine off because we are journalists and it's our duty to take the mince in two places that will give them information for them to make their own decisions a programme about livestock and meat we followed the two pigs which we introduce the beginning of the program bayesian stick into the abattoir to show the reality of meat production.

You did give a warning as well, but the question some people put to assist you looking probably best practice on here are small saucer houses with people.

Obviously care is that representatives of what goes on the home? It's representative of the small-scale abattoirs that are part of the system that we were Explorer

Program and on the food programme we've been into some of the largest slaughterhouses in Europe I went to one myself in Scunthorpe and included quite graphic description on the food programme but again the purpose of the slaughterhouse visit was to follow the pigs through their life cycle and explain how they fit into a system that we've had lots of this criticism from Paul Freestone who is a vegan and you love is on behalf of them and vegetarian Dan saladino presented a very biased view of so-called small-scale farming in this edition the main claim was the animals raised on Pasture have a negative environmental impact via soil sequestration the studies have disputed this example a 2017 report titled grazed and confused by an international research collaboration led by the food climate research network clearly states.

Better management of grass fed livestock does not hold a solution to climate change and substantially outweighed by the greenhouse gas emissions these grazing animals general or dancer dinner clearly Paul is a campaigner and there's a vegan has particular position, but do you think you did make a case as a post to impartially examine the evidence where you promoting a particular? You know that I'm just should out as well that the central conclusion and this is the idea of the program ends on his that we all need to be eating less meat but we wanted to do was to make sure that the audience during cop were having access to arguments that explore the nuances and the plexity and so this is why another title the program could have been you know it's not the cow.

It's the Palfrey still on others would say well it may be argue but we disagree with it and

Space on your program for us to make a substantial challenge to what you were saying I'm in what can understand with the short program with ideas which are not in the general mainstream that you wanted develop them and an exam, but do you think it was a mistake not to have critics because there are critics on your programs.

We are not taking a stand and the program I made just before this edition the central contributor was a vegan asset manager who controls trillions of dollars and is trying to influence the food industry to get rid of so called animal factory, but you do now then OK accepting this afternoon should be using another program in which you examine and create space for the critics that approach.

We have made programs dedicated to the subject meat alternatives and lab-grown meats.

We've looked at vegan cooking and even jainism.

Which is another branch of this as well.

There is no shortage of those voices.

Is arguments in the food programme yourself because people with long long memories will think that's how the food programme started out and of course I mean sure you do come in for good food for healthy food you with campaign in that sense.

Don't I think the origins of the program and and Derek Cooper is somebody who many people would consider to have been a rare invoice in broadcasting calling for good food, but we are journalists and the program is a journalistic program which we are exploring the food world the Politics of pleasure of it and I think all of us on the background in news journalism, and that's what I consider myself to be a journalist rather than a campaign thanks to Dan Marino presenter and producer of the food programme and please do let us know your thoughts about that interview or anything else to do with BBC Radio and podcasts.

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Well this week.

We've been asking to BBC Radio listeners to step out of their comfort zones and listen to a program that would normally be on their radar this week in Bebington who lives in Great Ayton North Yorkshire and bill Burr living in Ely in Cambridgeshire Ely originally come from.

In Ireland I moved to the UK that for years ago and before that I spent about 13 years and Hong Kong listening to the world service at believe quite a lot.

Yeah, I used to have that on as a constant background companion the world service was my go-to listening source and I was born in place called leak in North Staffordshire which part of the Potteries probably get a sense you listening habits if you were stuck on the mythical desert island, what would be your shop TV programme sunny it would definitely be as a Life Scientific and Saturday lie, which I really like I'm very entertaining and also Desert Island Discs and what about you by Steve Lamacq 6 Music show on Radio 6 at look from the world service and the confessional on Radio 4 well.

Thank you very much for those choices.

We asked you to this.

Ultralife on Radio 4 and in this episode of presenter John Wilson interviews filmmaker Mike Lee is a clip of the program because of the nature of the number friends like the film The the wheels on a stagecoach would go around back with you and I was thinking when I make films still go around the right way now that was a very early x w o l Lawrence 678 Michael a very chose moments from the cultural landscape that influenced his work very much in the style of Desert Island Discs but instead choosing music choosing moments from the cultural landscape and the tune is that what it sounded like you.

I thought that was a very good description of it by Bill I actually found it very very.

The work in the weights, I don't find Desert Island Discs do you like my please work is films.

Have you seen many of them? I'm not a fan of gritty social drama in fact.

I rather hate it so I had a slight prejudice against him but I was really ready to be engaged and involved, but I wasn't you heard of Mike Leigh before having to list of this program.

Yeah, my perspective is very different to James I'm a big fan of what was the phrase a gritty realistic big fan of Ken Loach and the like my family are certainly you know seen one or two of his movies and recognise the name but didn't really know much about them.

So if you weren't interested June in the man himself or rather his work.

Did you gain anything about understanding the creative process? I don't think I did really and I think in a way that was the

It's me because although it was technical an interview.

It sounds almost like a monologue in away with the presenter kind of feeding him certain things that were easy to answer the one thing mysli went round about organic acting he mentioned that quite a few times.

It was never picked up on and I still don't know what it means and I didn't gain any clue sometimes you get presenters who don't ask the symbol question because I know the answer that and the audience perhaps doesn't detect from what you said earlier that you got the John Wilson was innocent simply queuing up anikdote.

I did really I did get that feeling and I listen to this program halfway, and then I found it such that I had to have a break you switch off.

I did and then I

Just passed halfway and also I need a break so I came up with about an hour later listen to it for 5-minutes and thought I need another break and I will try and converter.

Can you knew presumably did listen from the beginning to the end? I did listen from the beginning to the end.

I won't try and convert June I think she's a lost was very different perspective on at enjoyed it.

I find it quite interesting how about the Leinster because it was what 42 and a half 43 minutes long-running something out that lens is A Dangerous Thing for producers and yeah definitely it's not going I think it's all about in this case.

It's all about the gas.

Then I would agree and disagree with June that The Departed relist is that the presenter was with very much kind of not involve just a sounding board for Mike Leigh to give his ideas.

That's a bit.

I'd agree with but to me that wasn't a problem.

Quite happy to listen to Mike Leigh spout on about his career at ok.

Well.

How do you feel about this evening at the end of all of these discussions we say we were comfort sound June will you guys really out of my comfort zone.

Yes, OK Google you out of your comfort zone slightly out of my comfort zone some of the references to maybe like new wave cinnamon and things like that so to a certain degree.

I was out of my comfort zone, but not to the extent that it took away from my enjoyment of the program funny thing.

It's kind of gave me new Leeds that I'm interested in following and solely by listening to another edition of the culture alive.

I won't actively seek out the program will listen to big factor in determining whether I listen again is PS they have in the show I can certainly see myself tuning in if it's on the radio on the way to her from work tidying around.

Singer laundry that kind of thing well.

I don't know if you have your comfort zone, but not the most enthusiastic couple with that.

Thank you very much indeed Bill and you thank you thanks.

I'm fun and all the additions of this cultural life are available on BBC sounds.

More more people listening to on demand radio and specially commissioned podcast rather than have network schedulers help determine the listening for them in 2020 there were nearly 500 million places podcast and on-demand radio on BBC sounds grounded with Louis Theroux the Battersea poltergeist fortunately with Fi and Jane and the Poet Laureate has gone to his have been some of the hits with Alistair's a little earlier.

I was joined by the commission of those podcast Rhian Roberts who is rather long title is the commissioning editor for digital and podcasts Radio 3 Radio 4 and 4 Extra I Began by asking your if when she was appointed to her job.

She was told that she had to be the entry point to the BBC for those much sort of younger listeners interesting question that never came up interview.

I think it's more about making podcast That feel authentic to an audience that likes podcast.

And we can see from the audience data that we get that they are right across the audience spectrum.

We've got just as many people who might consider themselves older and luckily we've got the other audiences.

I'm one of your podcast which has it had a considerable impact with silver audience is the dramatization of the nearby trials this is what some of our customers have had to Mrs Shirley Baker I was so impressed with radio for Nuremberg Trials it was put together soon well, and it was fascinating to hear of the tremendous hard work of the soldiers and lawyers and who helped to put the trial together.

I have watched the newsreels of the trial in the past and just assume that the accused had been ushered in from prison to hear the charges against them.

I was amazed that was involved very well done.

Personal instructions, when must come together to fight the 148th Watch belt suspenders necktie 46 soldier Lynn Solomon I have listened to the first episode it is utterly sportswear the terrible star American accents and the overacting similarly the actors playing German Nazis at the picture them as if they were pantomime wicked scary monsters rather than the ideological believers that they were this type of depiction Rangers Nazis harmless is a lost opportunity what a shame properties dialogue problem in these factual programmes in the sensor to a dramatist can create a character over quite a long period where in his documentaries people have to immediately established their American or they're not is it a problem? I I don't see it as a problem the reason I'm going to say I don't think it's a problem is I think it's

Quick way of bringing stories alive and a placing the listener right in the middle of the action and it's a matter of taste.

I guess I'm very pleased to see how many people have enjoyed it on sound difference between the style and tone of that particular podcast drama and a more traditional perhaps play that you would find on Radio 4 they doing different jobs and one of them is that makes me very happy is the amount of that stayed so all 16 episodes was a very high retention rate the people being driven onto the next point in the story.

It's taking certain moments from telling a story through the drama of that particular moment rather than through.

What's actually happening to the characters is a vast range of characters in there and it's a huge story millions of words and thousands of court transcripts to put together into a quieter a story with a medium with drama, so I suspect it's got more to do with that.

The story in the way we chose to tell it than an attempt to ignore the importance of characterization as you can look at the subject matter.

We haven't got 6/2 hours here.

We've got as many as we did the public will tolerate because we don't have to fit into a schedule, but then when you then handed over as you do a network like Radio 4.

What do you do? How do you cut these things down or do you create them in the first place with an eye to them being broadcast in a specific time slot cancel my fellow commissioner who looks after drama Radio 4.

Is there a certain ideas that come in that lend themselves to a more podcast way of telling a story that is the story can happen over some episodes that maybe cliffhangers those kind of ideas.

We look at together.

We genuinely co-commissioning them and it was one of those with 28-minute episodes on the Radio 4 schedule and sick.

Episodes of 14 minutes for the podcast and we were able to do that and make sense of that narrative genuinely in both spaces because it was a commission so from the beginning.

That's how we worked with the drama.

That's what they were expecting to produce, but you're able to attract just English actors at to his dramas.

I'm in Radio 4 has always had a remarkable ability to get some of the best actors before people to sign up for the do you was doing lockdown and then after lockdown it started to get more difficult.

I haven't noticed any difficulty I think you can't underestimate the wide audience that you will reach by appearing on if you have a podcast as well that audience is even broader increasingly podcast being seen as a place to find great ideas for tell the film associated with a podcast which is then brought up as bastard poltergeist has been and turned into that's quite a nice things.

Opportunities what pilot programs for movies one of the question like to ask you about the end of lockdown, how is weather some people who because they couldn't make programs like set for example Louis Theroux with his grounded podcast worked on podcast now.

They can get back into telly have they done so have they said well? I enjoyed making podcast for you, but I haven't got the time anymore.

I mean would you get people like Louis was no indication that we won't work with Louis and I hope pretty soon, but you know like a lot of these people that made television programmes for a living they have a backlog from the TV contract so I know that those got quite a lot of work going on at the moment, but we will talk to him and his production company pretty regularly and you're definitely will be hoping to make 3 with him well another podcast which is still making an impact is the long-running history one you're dead to me John deane's Oxford this is head and shoulders are better history show.

Any I've heard or seen before the mixer so well judged the comic content enough to lighten the touch.

I'm showing some empathy onto the story without ever competing with the content and the new one is a great idea fencing besoffen same posting.

It means the listener gets a version of the story before it's challenged which makes the facts easier to retain at the same time as it reminds you that there is room for interpretation.

What happens at onto then you want to win.

This is where Sophie and I take a little break and stop the candle to talk for two uninterrupted minutes about whatever he needs to hear Susan Foley RAID group using schoolboy human joking and stupid comments to engage your audience on Radio 4 really however it makes listening to the content very difficult and annoying.

What are interesting but you are far to self indulgent in your presentation? There are lots of history programmes in podcast deliberately try with this program to reach an audience if you thought is not interested history of thoughts.

It wasn't interested in his the jury of the programme.

I think was doing the reason it's so popular is that it works for both and it also works if you did a little bit of forgotten or indeed if that take on history have to kill a character has moved on and so I think we revisiting some people and introduce new characters that you may not have been offered on your syllabus when you're at school or university and presenting it in a very accessible way and you know if you don't get on with your dad Radio 4 does history in lots of different ways.

I love in our time as well.

I love the long you you can have that take on history if you're more comfortable with that and that's fine.

There's a sense.

BBC One to do two things one it wants to do distinctive public service material it wants you to be popular and the temptation to compete another crime series, please not a real life time is another detective series there must be a point at which you have to say actually if the market is providing that we should be looking for something different.

Are you aware of that 10? Yes, I think I am aware of that tension and it keeps you on your toes.

You keep reminding yourself all the time that you work for a public service body, so I'm going to go back and dad's me the joy I think of your dead to me.

Is that in a matter how we present it? You know that because it comes to Radio 4 and has a rigger around the facts no matter how those facts a shed we make sure that the river and the values of the journalism that Radio 4 on BBC are known for runs through all those podcasts that something but I know that something that I hold very dear.

Also a point where you looking at the market and thinking yes, there are plenty of true Crime if we are going to do true Crime you know how can we do it differently? How can we be innovative? So we're not trying to saturate the mark or follow the crowd we're trying to look at trends and see how we can do them differently in present and differently thanks to commissioning editor for digital and podcast for Radio 3 Radio 4 and 4 Extra Rhian Roberts for feedback for this week until next week.

Keep on keeping safe to buy.