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Read this: Nadine Dorries

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Nadine Dorries…

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts hi, I'm Katie razzall, and this is the media show from BBC Radio 4 will the dinos congratulations on your appointment fantastic job came as a surprise to you.

I think and lots of people and I guess it's fair to say wasn't welcome by everyone and I was having a look what comedian said it's great to have someone who's written more books than they've read another cold the most intellectually vapid MP of the modern era, and a crime writer says places you get to you.

Get to culture is if you're eating a pot of yoghurt? What do you think is going on well? Yeah very friendly and actually it's really interesting because if you could I think one of my comments that time was that you could hear the almond milk latte.

Cups hitting a floor across the BBC when my job was announced, but all I take that as a form snobbery.

It's very much on the left wing snobbery and it also kind of highlights of nastiness across politics and the kind that left wing divide in politics, but I think doesn't do any favours so I was disappointed, but I think you know as my people said to me all the right people were angry so the right people being I found this come.

It's quite misogynistic.

I also found them absolutely they looked at me and looked at my background.

They would have known that wasn't true people making those comments a political attack and nothing else.

So you know they want the person who said that I've

A bit more but has no idea what books I've read or or what my capabilities are in terms of literature or anything else, so I just found them thoroughly unpleasant comments that I would make everything anybody else has ever made when appointments been made your supporters were saying the opposite.

They were saying she's perfect she writes novels and things.

What is a change to have somebody in a role that so not I was a nurse and I was put into the prime minister.

Put me into health which you know I could really see that everybody said in a round peg in a round hole and you know I'm also an obvious sold two books and I'm probably reading your book you having a got this job.

It is really interesting.

It's based so much on your life growing up in Liverpool which probably a lot of our audiences.

Don't know about that you did come from a very Yoda

That's reflected in this book.

How do you think it's shaped? You one of the fields in Liverpool with the sound of the cop and it is certainly had an influence on my role now.

It could cause it to me throughout my life.

You know it's usually contributed to what I write my rights because I I almost in a way.

It's a social documentary on what life was like in the 1950s and 60s in the poorer parts of Liverpool people would be amazed nowadays to know what that was like.

You know did you go hungry? Yeah absolutely went hungry once very small fireplace to eat a whole house.

You know I was on a Thursday Tuesday and Wednesday

Stuff and I think people today would be if they would step back into my childhood was made it pretty unbelievable what we have to enjoy in terms of an existence.

That's why I find some of those comments particularly grating.

I have no idea about my life.

They have no idea about my up at the first 25 years of my life like that old now, so I kind of lives through but it's certainly shaped.

Not just what I've written which I think it's always a social documentary on this times, but it's shaped what I'm doing in this department as a secretary of state usually I can't I'm on the reasons.

Why can't deny it is very quickly when I ride it department what it was I wanted to achieve and what I want to do and and the reason for that is that in the early 60s 1960s and has grown up if you wanted to be a part of the Arts you could be Sophie I was taken.

Very first theatre experience by charity to the Everyman Theatre Liverpool when I was 10 years old to see Chaucer's Canterbury Tales I love sausages result and I love the theatre as I am I believe that the theatre is a place where I'm welcome and where I can be but I know that many the kids who are on the same street, but I grew up in now think theatres are not places where I can go let alone places where people like them can work or contribute to and so I made it might austins department within 24-hours of arriving every department every policy every decision.

We take has a filter laid over that decision and that is does this policy help those from socially deprived areas to access both arts and culture and sport is what we're doing because those people knows backgrounds are of.

Every sexuality but always looking after everybody when we talk about diversity, nobody would say that was a bad idea everybody thinks that the access to the art should be widened what I'm confused about is that you know you want to widen access to the arts but the Conservatives to all these institutions to everything that counts right.

That's why it's important for everyone but you know because of 11 years and over that time you off call figures show a dramatic drop in for example kids doing art subjects at GCSE and a level so in the last 10 years is performing arts down by nearly two-thirds dance down by half lots of teachers say that as a direct result of you.

No funding cuts and the fact the schools having to make positions in a very kids that you want to get into this kind of selective so it's not something that's happened.

Just over the last 10 years have been something that's been happening for a very long time.

It's been.

25 years and so

The difference in the number of people being involved today, I think in those those kind of distance that you talked about which are drama and dance and music and performing arts in schools.

I think more relates to that's because actually although they may have dropped in some schools.

We have more schools now, which he dedicated just to one of the first ones.

I think I'll be in Liverpool but there are a number of schools be have won in my constituency in Britain which actually really focus on on those particular disciplines, so you will find him those huge percentage of young people are actually there in that school because they want to be part of Performing Arts and a part of the whole artistic experience you wanted to know absolutely auntie know if you're looking at my constituency that if you wanted to do if you were somebody who wants to go to the sixth form and do performing arts and you would go over to that.

If you didn't you've probably go to a different school, so I think the way school function today and the way they offer tickets sixth form GCSE the way they offer courses is very different that's possibly cutting his touch anything.

It's been wrong to cut school funding it easier so I I can't I don't have I don't I don't know the what your school funding cuts.

Why I don't recognise that what I'm recognise is the increased performance that we have from people's in schools both at GCSE and a level the number of passes that we happen and young people are going into a apprenticeship sanity University and in higher education, so I don't recognise the picture your painting about cuts.

That's what I say I pupils in schools doing so much better than they were doing 1520 years ago.

I say and even 10 years ago.

I see pupils in schools getting the

I want in the disciplines that they want because they have those opportunities.

No choice is now that they never had before so I don't recognise your your question about cuts to school because as far as I'm concerned better much better now than we have been is it important acknowledgement of quite how difficult things still are for the sector you know the pandemic Lily has been a nightmare for so many not least the cultural Arena worried about theatres little museums whatever it might be going bankrupt without this support.

So so just let s knowledge and did 2 billion pounds and the reason why that money was allocated was because we knew that this this Sceptre was probably one of the most relevant does to be affected by the impact of course audience as well going to theatres and of course they weren't you know those people who learn and educators through through the arts.

Of course.

They weren't going to continue.

Make no mistake about this many theatres would not be standing today if the government haven't supported them over the last 20 months.

So yes, it was a recognition that some of these theatres actually would those organisations which which were successful in their beds for the funds? It wasn't just you know we need money.

I hands up.


Can you give us some money because they surrender their accounts.

No, they would the Treasury went through and looked at each organisation who did need the funding who really was in danger, because it is very important that taxpayers money was targeted in show the hasn't been any fraud exactly so we have not as aware aware.

We wanted to know which theatres and why the ones really needed the help to keep going and which because you're here some people say you know we can get any of that money, but they are still standing and they are still running with please backup and

To the fact that they didn't need the funding because they are still here now the funding were doing now is to help people through the recovery period we we know then you just support right turn off 20 months they still might just getting back on their feet and hands and make sure they get up and then I'll just go for him.

You know from two Heroes overnight with with plays and with the complex programs that they running places like this overnight, so we've kept them functioning now.

It's important that we hold our hands and get them right up to the point where they running and able to continue go by themselves and I'll put the third phases for and that's like doing it and I wondered if we have a look at what I've taken on board anyway about part of your agenda a lot of it seems to be around you who controls cultural institutions, so are they to elite? How can we broadband access to them? I wonder if you have you?

Man City talked about left wing snowflakes killing comedy suppressing free speech comedies almost Dad we're just I think Dawn French is that the woke agenda and I wondered if you was to the Bank of England for example to remove as it's down the bus and paintings of 7 governors connected to the slave trade because I don't think you can I think it's really important that it's retained and this is our policy retain and explain and to make sure it never happens again.

So it's about you can't cancel can shall we can just wipe it all out like it didn't happen and pretend it didn't exist it was a warrant and it was appalling.

I think those very reasons we need to retain it and and you.

Whatever as part of education program for the young people particularly, this is how important it was this is awful.

It was that this was out.

This is a part of our history and it's something that we have to acknowledge and we have to explain you can't wait away or history or the bad UK throughout history UK Museums of Advanced basis and Prejudice use of the world they said in a document recently so I'm not aware of that document so as I haven't read it.

I cannot comment can you say you don't believe in the culture Wars you talked about Council do you think there is an issue that people are frightened to say what they think so yes, I hear this all the time.

So yes people are but I think freedom of expression is a really important principle of democracy and sometime.

We just need to kind of like tone down the condemnation and the judgement and an evaluator and engage a little bit more than we do.

I think social media is a lot to this.

So you know people afraid to because of because of the amplification and the Echo chambers of social media so I think it's a distortion really on what I want to contribute in what they have to say in how it's going to be receiving it because we've seen it happen to some some good people many times so I think that's about distortion comes from and what do you think in your opinion? What happens to the UK if people's right to speak out your isn't protected.

Where do you think the country is heading? I think it's important that it is at a bill for next year called The online harms Bill and actually it's really important that as well as protecting children and holding somebody's big social media giant to account both criminally and width.

find that we also protect freedom of speech within that particularly for the Press as well, so it's the basis of democracy freedom of speech and that's why we need to protect it and the way that we do because what happens if we don't what happens to Britain do you look to America and worry so

the erosion of freedom of speech and and if it did disappear Adam really reminded me that you want to go to where we'd be I just think it might have one objective that two bills that we pass in my department to make sure that that element is protected people might say you're all of this this to the defending values into your hands and actually you know culture is a way to unite people and that there are some things that are called woke that you might call work there actually about being kind of listen to different perspectives that on I take away by that anything and it's that's what's important to protecting freedom of speech that people do listen and people do understand and actually that people just listening to other people see you so I totally get that kind of perspective.

I'm not I'm going to

What kind of charger isn't true and it's what other people say about me? Not when I say I'm not just listening to young people to their perspective on many issues as described as well.

It's actually quite important, but you know you could talk about it left-wing snowflakes and then woke agenda.

Is is quite well, there are some people politicized and and that's what I'm talking about when I do that.

So you know there are people who campaigners who kind of space that young people would like to occupy to talk about some serious issues, who sung the left to hide.

That's why I said that to my comments are talking to Dad not young people who want you to want to engage in debate.

Seriously I really just been talking about but now the divide between Old generation thinking what younger Generations think and how was a lot of a lot of room for discussion and debate.

Understanding negotiation at the moment, can you see it to work the BBC just published the 10-point plan to deal on a number of issues like a lack of impartiality and many will have read and heard about if you spoke to Tim Davie at the BBC I think you'd find the direction.

I think you'd find that there is an acceptance at the management level of the BBC that the BBC does have challenges and another issues and but I have every faith but as part of the ongoing discussions that the BBC and and they done that you don't write a review and what they published as part of their 10-point plan.

I think they've made a good attempt to stop dealing with some of these issues and I wanted you doing this discussion of this report you know unfounded at the

Report supposed to be a freeze at effectively cut in real terms of inflation in the director-general has said the BBC will have to choose what to stop making if that happens as one of them your perspective.

What do you call the things you think the BBC could do without could cut I can't discuss what actually brings the most revenue into the BBC because it sounds it all over the world so I spoke to become if they'll cuts have to be made.

What would you say are you from the perspective that perhaps the BBC shouldn't be doing light entertainment there other people who like to take entertainment you concentrate on news and lots going to be drawn on what the BBC Weather it's just indeed if it did come.

That's not going to be in 2014 if I'm right in a block you said in this day and age attacks on the ownership of a television is a completely outdated concept the turkey felt take into account changes in the media environment over the last 50-years.

Are you ideologically opposed to the licence fee is not interesting.

I forgot about that was 2014 and 2020 change your mind so you know I was talking then Save the Last 50 years.

Yes and Netflix invented Amazon Prime know any of the other streaming and even then you told without data as yeah and young people today.

He spoke to many young people they do not go home after work and switch on TV or college and watch the BBC

They consume their television and very different ways, so you know fast forward another 67 years what one is the horizon going to look like will it have a licence? What do you think it should have been ideal Logic get looks from back then so at the moment and discussion about the settlement of the licence fee those discussions about how the BBC is funded the long time.

I'm not coming up until the tata India which is another for 5-6 years away, so that discussions for the future and but actually think we all need to tell me what the BBC survive.

Yes, we do is the BBC at a fantastic global institution based here in the UK yes, it is everyone across the nurse this relaxes the BBC how is the BBC going to survive competing against organisations like Netflix today and Amazon Prime and all the others.

Be coming over the next year's how the BBC survive in that changing environment of how people watching consume there entertainment then use that television.

They are my discussions for the kitchen because that you want the BBC the BBC to survive I see that changing landscape and I can see what's happening not what's happened in the past, but what's happening in the future and know what's coming down the line.

I want the BBC to survive that's why we have to have those really hard discussions about how do I enable it over the long time to remain that global institution that is if for example Facebook it's called Now doesn't rain itself in can you see monster about going to jail?

So, I'm not going to be drawn on a question like that, but what I I will say is this that there another principles around this Bill and the most important Prince of Bel-Air young people and children and would you trust them with your grandchild children? We are looking after considering making somebody with an organisation like Facebook or rebranding doesn't work by the way that one of those organizations primarily responsible for something.

We are considering including in this Bill and would somebody be criminally liable.

Yes, they would and will they become reliable soon after the bill received royal assent.

Yes, they will and should therefore online now start doing what they can to remove the harmful algorithms which affect young people so hope act upon them so dramatically should they be doing that now?

They've had notice.

They got found warning this bill is coming advised by your terms and conditions Now remove your harmful algorithms now another 20000 engineers that you're going to put on to put them on making Facebook a place which is safe for young people to go to now music Radio podcasts.

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