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Read this: Biggest BBC Cuts Yet To Come, British Journalism Awards Guardian hits 1m

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Biggest BBC Cuts Yet To Come, British Jo…

Love This podcast support this show through the a car support a feature.

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How much you give and there's no regular commitment just hit the link in the description to support now welcome to the media podcast I'm at digging on today less show more repeats.

That's the future of the BBC a coin for national Audit Office will impact what that mean programme makers and audiences meanwhile the Guardians hit 1 million subscribers all without a walk to work another publishers learn from this milestone.

Look back at the scoops of the Year as just by the journalism awards ponder ladbible rise and rise and in the media quiz we find out who's to blame.

That's all coming up in this edition of the media podcast and play make me a media podcast debut is journalist writer and comedian Marti welcome to the show you some kicked off with a podcast around Black Mirror were you tempted to say.

Turn on succession a bit.

Yeah, I managed to bring into about succession into another podcast to do cold, but is it funny which is about comedy criticism so it's a comedy.

I think is a big question and was there much succession charts at the British journalism awards this week actually.

I think a lot of the conversation was around so it's so nice to be here in person because he before play Summer judged it last year and it was a virtual ceremony.

So it's really nice be back in The Ballroom at the Hilton Bankside didn't you just lovely to see people but obviously it's just before we got this panic again about the numbers.

So it's a blissful time.

You haven't been paid yet then no no must have done all rights at the awards and also making their debut.

It's the founder of the week John Connell John I'll be on that forever.

I but you're a serial entrepreneur so I can imagine you been resting on your laurels.

What are you working on at the moment? We have a habit in life.

Will do the same thing over and over again.

Something which is different to the week although it has the same kind of general idea behind it.

I mean a week after all I can see more than 25 years ago and I felt there was wrong for a daily newsletter.

Which goes out you not short daily newsletter 5-minutes a day.

Just bring in the most interesting ideas fun quotes the best little star is from the day and that's what I'm doing and we've been going for a few months and it's been quite well and that's called the knowledge call the knowledge and where can people subscribe that if they want to get in there and go to our website the knowledge website and you staying up at the moment.

It's it's completely free so it has and I suppose one thing we try to do is against the Sword of Doom and Gloom which infiltrates the media everywhere I suppose I did this up to point in the week that I also to define slightly more positive without being pollyannaish about it slightly more positive stories.

So, so that's what we do.

We tried of reflect the most interesting comment around the world but also to bring you some of the the the more fun stuff that Jake kanter congratulations Shake on moving to the paper of record and thanks for answering my calls looking back at the last year.

What do you reckon the biggest story you've had to cover is that's a good question.

I was going to say that I have not a newcomer feel at the Hackney featuring on This podcast what's the biggest news stories the last year that is extraordinary.

I think one of the big stories between my touch on later was the amazing scoop in the Guardian from the reporting that that carried on over a series of stories about an l.

Clark spot the whole meet even in the television television industry which is kind of still going on now.

I think we will see the results of that next year when a

Review completes into whether process is a good enough for people to raise historical complaints a bit later.

We'll talk about some of the British journalism, but another big story that you've been covering is the national Audit Office report on the BBC which was released on Friday morning.

I supposed to start with you Jake what were the findings.

Yes of the national Audit Office is done.

What is essentially a pretty comprehensive review of the BBC savings initiatives and it's not extremely critical of the BBC it makes very ugly reading and that is because the BBC's finances are in the increasing turbulence and the BBC has to find more and more savings it has already saved close to a billion pounds over last.

26 years and the BBC forecast has got to save exactly the same amount over the next 5 to 6-years again and that is a best-case scenario for the BBC depending on the outcome of the licence fee settlement which were expecting early next year and Cooper another Denton it's finances which means it has to make savings now talk about savings can be quite abstract.

I think the thing that matters here and the thing that comes through clearly in this report is the BBC made the easy savings all the back office behind the scenes stuff that we don't see as audiences the majority of that work has been done the majority of those savings wrong out of The Corporation now is the time when we are going to see the greater impact on the audience facing services of the BBC has and 1.

Manifest itself is through more Pete's we've seen an increase in repeats across the BBC over the last few years and the projection is that only going to increase as the BBC's Focuses its financing on prime-time in the chair of the public accounts committee make Hillier she sort of the BBC should be worried about it's going to Battle Fairview as now it's starting cutting money from from what we see on the screen BBC One That told to make cards to that their money is cut back anyway.

They got probably less than inflationary increases with the new settlements, so your income will be in decline.

What what can they do that the damned if they do any damage if they don't on me?

It's a very difficult predict man to the BBC and the new settlement that will hear about next year.

It's very unlikely that the BBC's going to get an increase in its funding more likely scenario is will get real terms cuts and at the same time as that kind of domestic story.

We've got this global story going on for the BBC where it is becoming increasingly in the face of competition from the lights and Netflix Amazon apple and all of those players are not only competing For Rivals also driving up the cost of making content which is kinda like this jewel pronged pincer movement attack on BBC equally BBC is contending with people refusing to pay the licence fee.

We've got an increased number of licence for you refuse mix about 700000 according to the last and report and that is only.

Stop if people are thinking that they are being served up a diet of repeat and also to do more co-productions of people like Netflix but let's have a knock-on effect to the money.

They get back IP rights or other third-party sellers rights isn't around the world so save some money early on but not so grateful for featuring come in a huge increase in I think about eighty 46% of 86% increase over the last 3-years in the number of Cobra that's working with the Lights of Netflix to fund drama.

Are the shows so a good example of that is something like bodyguard, which was funded by Netflix so was Dracula and that's that's been a crutch for the BBC has allowed it to invest more in.

Big buddy drama, but as you say it could come back to bite them later on because they will be bringing in less revenue from intellectual property news at the BBC's division data stored over some of their over their savings.

I think I should have let off a bit over the over coronavirus.

They've got another 1980 million-pound to save they cut things like the engine Neil show their produce Newsnight budget where more can they can they target these cuts to think it's a horrible thing is things like investigations which cost money or also things that build trust to be start cutting is expensive project which are long-term which cost money over time which could maybe on their budgets quite easily you are kind of playing with your reputation and that's another thing of BBC wants to do is to lose reputation.

They have which is incredible and global so that's

Does tend to be truth newspapers that that's what's cut firstlook investigations we trim something off the Prairie can be looking at the the salary the biggest stars aren't they and then we've already got place like she been used once you're going to mention later.

We've got other broadcast services that will be very happy to pay the more and it seems like that will be what the future that people colour looking around the BBC clean baby so much for asking me to live on less.

Why don't really want to do that may be looking elsewhere because the computer isn't just for the competition also for the people who make the news.

He make the shows you want them and if they're well-known.

They can take the audience elsewhere that could be the Dangerous Thing John we changes we've got issues around drama repeats is there a big danger for the BBC with all these cuts when there is but as you said there's

Resistance to raising a licence for UK increasing concern about numbers people who went so I think that's a dodgy courts to try and do that and I mean I suppose the BBC's just concentrate on the things that is known for the things.

It's best at and I mean I rather agree that the investigations are import Panorama style programs and that's it's really news by the BBC scores think it's going to have to be careful about new drama occasional new drama in areas, which are rather upmarket and which are not really probably so much competition from Netflix etc, but I don't personally think the having a lot of repeats in non-prime time is a bad thing is more important for the BBC Two Focuses resources on the things that goes really well, and I still think it probably tries to do too much too many radio stations what we really loved about the BBC BBC1 and BBC2 but also the world service and personally again.

Like to see them back doing more supportive in the only Major sport event now.

I think I right in saying they do is the Wimbledon final Jake do you think this is exactly where the government wants the BBC know? It's round a round of cuts now.

Having to re cut into two programming things that people love one of the Conservatives issues is often without popular the BBC is with the pub.

This is this is what I've always been after isn't well.

We often get some double talk with ministers.

They talk about the BBC being a beacon excellent and a British around the world but the same time when they're not necessarily on the record their briefing.

It's the BBC all their political aides are siding the BBC with their quotes.

I think the government clearly is minded to reduce the BBC's funding in some way, but the noise is that we are getting is that?

we don't expect the BBC to be punished really punished in a way that perhaps the music was sounding even a year ago before Boris Johnson has hit the break and was riding high he felt in Boldon to bully the BBC we think that has that has turned down a bit but yeah the BBC is a target is still an easy target with seen the Dean dorries questioning the impartiality of individual journalists such as Andrew Marr the BBC's not brilliant fighting back and therefore it easy political point scoring mechanism for Minister's to use the Guardian as they've got over a million paying subscribers half of which are outside the UK they said so I guess when it is put them in terms of other top news providers c200k what what do you

How do you think they've rate monthly others economists and Financial Times which is a really big deal actually, so he could have had about 964000 and the ft 987020 counted and Lisa from June 2021.

They probably have got over that million now, but he didn't mean to be announced that the Guardian made.

That is used to get past the applications, but we'll see the God is pretty much interest as only one hand that's helpful because it could appeal to a broad range of people or the other hand the FTL economist have quite a wealthy or Die an audience.

It's companies.

It's Stephen business who the very motivated to keep my subscriptions going to the one I got he has had a bit of a bigger job every time you read an article WhatsApp I've been up Wikipedia say you've read many articles.

Would you consider doing XYZ got a nice toned when they like pitched it correctly, but it's difficult.

Person by person, it's clearly works out and I think part of the reason is the expanders of the US and Australia in 2011 and 2013 as they built up at 40 over a decade which is clearly done some Elton John I was really impressive is they've done all this what I haven't instigator paywall.

How did you manage to coax a million people to to pay up that they've done that.

I've been begging works.

If work way of putting it.

They don't tell you you have to pay that asked you to pay and in the end you get prep Shane and I think it's rather clever.

I think you're right that it says it's sort of the way that their approach is rather friendly and nice.

I've always thought the guardian news coverage is really good at almost as good as the telegraphs but with you not everyone everyone politics, but a lot of people love the way they do news it's very easily accessible and I think they way they tackle that is is clever.

Just constantly asking I mean substack Andrew Sullivan who I follow on the subject as something rather similar which is he says if you want to subscribe to me you can pay $50 a year or $1 a week and you know most of us feel well.

We're going to enjoy this guys, but a living to make and we feel a bit the same about the Guardian did he said something about their audience as well.

Yes, and I think it maybe you know particularly in that kind of age where they went through sort of trump and all the feeling of you know the Guardian was sort of fighting a battle against all that kind of stuff people want to support them.

Yeah, so I do think it says tell me about audience in a way.

It's a surprising thing because they're not the aft of The Economist audience and yet there.

They are happy to contact rather encouraging for the legs of me what you make it what the editor can't find been doing with the paper and under website said she took over what about 5 years ago now.

Play what the benefits of subscribing are I mean you get you get ad free content and you get you more crosswords.

It's probably not one for me.

So it is it's really it is really impressive.

I agree with John completely it's fantastic.

It's clearly The Guardian occupies a reason be unique place in our broadsheet landscape in the UK and that is something that works to it's advantage.

It's also shows that there's a third way.

It doesn't have to be all advertising or like the Times which is entirely behind a paywall and that's really encouraging for the future and what do you think about? What cats done to the product? I'm not a guardian reader.

Modern and fan it's just me very personally but I felt that I feel the range of comment is a little narrower that used to be I feel more voice is Brett back during an arrest Bridges do but that's just my own reacts and I'm still pleased to see Simon Jenkins in there however, but I I read it mainly for the news and the sort of G to start browsing for the comment, what about Adrian Chiles with this morning columns internet phenomenon.

Ok? Let me to the British journalism awards has he said you were there as a judge? Can you run a sound the biggest scoops? Yes, I was one of which is my arts and entertainment journalism side, so what the British journalism awards wants to do in Our Stars judges to do is looking at Genesis skin and rigor is it revelatory to bringing you information to lie?

I didn't serve the public interest it's really that kind of journalism classic principles and so are the answer entertainment which is not classically where you left three gets up big investigations Big Brother this year.

You know one thing did really stand out and I was staring kale Lucy Osborne looking into the actor director Noel Clarke loads of allegations against him and in his treated and really what I've done is change the conversation around how you think they working ATV Industries unregulated industry in terms of their late night people go location.

It's got a very blurred Lines that have you got to work be physically closely with people and so there's kind of ample space for things to happen at the same time because you don't have classic rear party.

Don't have job security most beautiful answers people very afraid to speak up in to say this powerful person did something.

I'm very uncomfortable.

I feel like you know whatever they felt so negative happened and I'm going to speak up very sleepy.

You're brave enough and basically people felt they be believed so to text investigation and white string stories around it.

I think one of the best things come out of its apart from exposing what's happened.

Isn't that many many more people have come to the allegations there are more stories in the offing and it's it's about the sources feeling safe and feeling like they're not paying their livelihoods on the line in order to do something and do not have a guilty will I should have said something because it's happened to someone else if I did say Something There Goes My Life they shouldn't have to make that choice anything.

You're all the other judges.

You know that the clear winner in that science and it was such a big breakthrough and we'll loads of other great entries in the answers entertainment and the category but before me this was kind of fitting that kind of public interest journalism you two women in charge investigation that doesn't happen often enough evidence newspapers and again.

It's the Guardian doing investigation really well.

That is very interesting to people as something that Break new ground and they did say it in the Guardians and have broken a million paying readers.

They did the Pegasus investigation Aldi's investigation add to the centre of people going on I wanna go back and read them.

I trust them and I will pay them to do more of the stuff that really does help in terms of then getting your scribers and furnishing a reputation it does provide real value doesn't it's unique stories that you can't just pick up on rewrites on on other sources and effects after on the back and they had to really rethink how they pretty like hands or hey it's it's an award.

We don't see any of this stuff, but I had to eat with afterwards no problem the comedy bar.

There's no human resources like everyone's a freelancer and there's only been charged and who do you complain to do if you actually enforces the Solutions

And I think about 2 can say we just give out of water but actually there in a position of power they given no club positions of power and it's bohemian positions of power over other women younger women women who new to the industry and allowed the exact as it's not afters fault obviously but the same time that I stand that what who they decide is in the right or wrong or who they support you put on their panels and put in front of podium their wards that tells us for me, but who they believe in and who they think is right and so yes to begin with after didn't wanna play and download the change their point of view but they did eventually vesication so it took on this committee and so it will actually represent the best of TV and film in the UK are you not going to do something then? I actually yes, we will again.

That's a huge breakthrough.

I read it and I just thought this is masterful in the way that they sort it and told the story.

Whitley absolutely brilliant.

I was entirely and Incredibly jealous when I read it because I just thought I would I would love to have been involved in a piece of work.

That's all that's the one that I would really liked yes, it has made change in the industry BAFTA dealt with subsequent allegations about producer call Charlie Hanson who has worked closely with Ricky Gervais in the past on shows like after live later allegations and most about him and BAFTA was rapid into spending Charlie as a member.

So it has it has shaped the way the industry things about leasing the other things on the list that caught my eye I am in my clip comment about the garden to one side of Marina Hyde was very very worthy winner of the comment award the Sophia Smith galer as well.

Who has done pretty remarkable work on tiktok.

And showed how Potent tiktok can be as a platform for journalists in terms of engaging new audiences and explaining things in an entirely new way to I think she's done brilliant work on my front in one night.

I mean your across this everyday now with the knowledge.

Do you think jenlisa meeting good shape in many ways, I think it is I just wanted to Echo quickly then.

I think Marina Hyde is very deserving of award.

I think party because she brings humour at into things.

I'm in as Michael Deacon does on the Telegraph and I think it's quite a rare commodity and British papers and it's one to be celebrated and I genuinely funny and make some points and I'm in a witty way, but no I think that you know there's always talk about newspapers being on the way out and so forth but but but there is so.

Now ways that journalists can get through not just to newspapers, but through podcasts that they sent through blogs and so on and I think that that actually the diversity of a pin.

You know it's amazing really how much stuff and we're always struggling for choice on the knowledge.

We're trying to pick out surprising and interesting views every day and that there's a lot of competition from not just come here it right round the world.

You know where often Rock running comments from Africa or Australia and it's I think it's rather sort of a boom time for jealous and will be back with more opinion after this Christmas bring people back together and enjoy Sainsbury's Taste the Difference cookie Cup ties with no turkey crown with sage and onion stuffing.

And treat yourself to a salted caramel and chocolate star finished in shimmering gold make it a Christmas to save her install and online here's a little brain teaser.

How many elves are in the following sentence to talk to a friendly doctor by video regular brain training is good for your cognitive health need a GP get a same-day video GP appointment with living without going to the doctor's down Olivia bland does l i v i a boy went got £29 including prescription sick notes and referral.

John and jk.

Still with me and it's time for some media news ladbible the British social Media platform has been valued around 200 million after floating on the stock market this week.

It's owner Alexander solomou pocketed 50000000 the process John that's not too shabby.

What is his secret? Do you think I think it's a very clever little formula, and I mean it's not really what you'd expect which is a sort of celebration of old-fashioned masculinity or whatever it's just found a niche and they seem at first.

It's really they've up their peel hugely the students again.

I mean you know I'm sure she can do to land and Jake will know more but it seems to me that they do it with humour and quite funny and it's and they're always coming up with very shareable stuff and I think that's important so that you know it's all that sort of memes that the stuff that you can share.

It's not I don't think you could say aimed at me, but I think they've done a wonderful job and and and again.

I think one of the lessons of this is that the future of there's more more going to be indeed and people who identify and knees and then really go to know how to create character of what they're doing and and and and appeal to particular audience and I think it's it's not something that I sort of follow, but is definitely something that cuts through and you'll see on on other platforms or OC reference to lot recognisable compared.

How it started their 2012.

Where was little more.

Maybe misogynistic.

Do you think it's broken through and Away From It's Beginning see her apparently.

They knew that is the problem and there's a real effort to change the lad meant in ladbible.

So it's been changed to be the Caring individual who looks after the friends mental health and where is that plastic waste produced so

Terrific I love it.

I will know more about this individual but I think about dolphins just so many things but what I think is very important.

Is it started on Facebook page and if anyone sort of maybe Jake has a bit has dealt with like social media teams on a newspaper particularly.

They have got their stats down to an art form.

So I did some work on social media team over at the mirror when I was there and got reports upon reports upon reports that you think generally the social audience person will have all the websites kind of traffic, but the social media team have everything because I do like customer services because stuff is coming in at stories out.

They've got starts beyond belief as they know exactly what works what's get engagement videos doing well, and I hope it to video in about 2015 and to redundancy if it happened there, but your social medias even got the goods as it start from the social Media platform.

You can't leave your work and stress.

She's really quickly and then there's just another piece I found.

From November this year on the drum and bass of the LAD Bible team to the whole day off to play PlayStation 5 that's a dream for you guys.

I cancel a PlayStation 5 from a Gameboy so if you lost me, so basically, they said they had a bit of a Victoria thing.

I think we've PlayStation Lisa I don't take the day off and let's play PlayStation 5 and audience know what it's like and I think they are the position ourselves as pretty much the same as their leader and then you've got to have a really strong used to do that, but it's very satisfying just like yourself so test protesting an item.

You might want to buy to show you what a day in the life of is like and how the time in the Money in space to do that is pretty incredible, so I think they are doing work for potential reader already by say look with the saying you and I let's go and do this together.

Let me do not search you around today for me.

You're going over yesterday for me or no and the fact is they said they're getting the car.

Is two-thirds of 18 34 year olds in the UK monthly and they get 750000 comics a day on Facebook alone and a Facebook is losing eyeballs.

It's many problems and be seen as an older generation thing to still be doing that in 2021 means that they are reviewing their strategy for engagement constantly because their data and they doing it well closer to the audience than some established Media is perhaps.

I think they have a very good idea of success story ladbible on the chattering classes, but you these figures and Alexander solomou earnings are Testament to that and what we've just discussing spot on a minute.

It's a traditional publishers have tried to adapt to the social world.

A publisher that has grown out the social world and let's not forget that all well.

Not all but a lot of big tech companies have slightly questionable Beginnings if you look at Facebook that was facemash initially and then yeah, I send you another Snapchat was popular because of certain anatomical pictures that tell that started and yeah, I think one of the things that is really interesting is that lad bible is now away that Politician's tried to reach out to different audiences, so we've seen them do interviews with the likes of Rishi Sunak and it's gone the other way as well.

I know that I know the former head of comms at ladbible guy who used to work at BuzzFeed as well, but he now works at Downing Street

News news as there's some developments each episode This Time Simon McCoy erstwhile, the BBC has left his show was about 2 or just been replaced by Eamonn Holmes reunited with his sky in his partner Isabel Webster to launch you things would he made of GB news launch and first few months I can't say I watch it very much.

I think it's it's it's very very hard doing this kind of stuff especially when you have to have a huge budget and it would you do for TV when you've got so much competition? I think having the loss of Andrew Neil I don't forget never really recovered from I don't know the numbers, but I think the dangerous if you got lost another one now stream media person like Andrew leaving immediately you know someone like me.

I might watch it.

If Andrew Neil's there because I don't seem on the BBC and I think it's a brilliant interview at the

Better and he really knows how to question the politician in the way that most political journalists good at this him, but now that is there it's very hard for one to give many rooms does the way you want to watch GB news? I mean I can see that is a counter to the BBC in certain ways, but you know the BBC does it's job very well and if you more right-wing opinion this plenty of newspapers will give it to you and Andy plenty of other sort of podcast so I still feel that it's struggling in a gap which are not really exists and you and you're right.

I do know you know what it's like launching these new things that everyone thinks the weeks of magically appeared and suddenly it was very successful, but it was a lot of hard work and a lot of time get there it took 6 or 7 years to really make it through and make a profit and you know that's way back in the days before social media and so it's tough and I

I would I wouldn't wait.

It's chance to be a big success myself Jake obviously is going to face it's a competition We Talk TV what Talk TV gossip.

Have you got surely? You must have some my life wouldn't be worth living if I was holding talk to Albert the Andrew Neil debacle is behind you been used and it was a debacle was a complete disaster.

I actually think the station is quietly growing in confidence and I think the Eamonn Holmes signing is actually Testament to that because I think they have a clearer they have a clearer idea of their audience and the best way to serve that audience now really think that Haven homes probably fitting quite well.

He has an appetite for the kind of contrarian commentary that has become a hallmark of TV news and he showed it though.

Slightly slightly alarmingly during a pandemic when he refused to dismiss conspiracy theories about covid-19 and it's linkster.

It's linked to 5G technology now.

I'm not saying that I'm not saying that she been uses is it set out it's tool to further conspiracy theories, but what they do do is challenge the colour mainstream agenda into the mainstream views on certain issues, and that's what they set out to do and that I think they are achieving that many ways they also have had success with with Nigel Farage show Nigel's getting close to 100000 viewers nearly new week in Week Out he managed to secure the interview with Donald Trump which made headlines across the country across most major media media outlets and generated the

Stations highest rating since it's launch night.

It is still getting zero viewers occasionally, but it is challenging sky and BBC news on some nights.

Is it is it though I mean everybody figure has been lower than the previous week the time the the trump episode 180000 which is amazing get for him great interview for Farage but like if that's what they can get with you know the person.

That's a really interested there audience does it is limited for them that show Sky News and BBC News and a channel that is a few months old.

I would say that's reasonably good work.

I'm sure they would they would be absolutely delighted about that.

Do I think that GB news is going to be a huge Challenger to those brands.

No, but do I think that it has?

Audience and the ability to take what is being broadcast on television and beaming out online and generate millions and millions of views across YouTube and other social network.

Yes, it's clearly there is a formula that is working and I think Talk TV speaking on my boss is here.

They've seen what you been doing.

This is what this is not necessary but sources in the industry.

They've seen what you been uses doing they've seen that there's a gap in the market and they are They Are Young Thing to mine similar territory well.

I'm sure we'll return to GB news news in a later edition of the podcast.

It's the gift keeps on giving and squeak is entitled the blamethrower.

I'll give you a media story from the week and you've got a tell me who was blamed with a rightly or wrongly three rounds you.

With your name if you know the answer so Jake you will say Jake John you will say John and setanta Cup will say David and again.

Yeah, let's play the blamethrower number one here we go Boris Johnson is still reeling from the Scoop surrounding the Christmas party at 10 Downing Street but who did he blame Jake Jake Boris Johnson BBC I don't think we can go quite as far as saying Boris Johnson himself, did I mean maybe he did behind closed doors, but yeah, this is the the Mail on Sunday splash this weekend where it said that Boris Johnson is Furious with the BBC for a story that was first broken the Daily Mirror and then and then further dim.

Play ITV News yes, you're right firstly main reported by squeezing the mirror.

I'm not quite sure why the BBC gets the blame other than it's useful punching bag for mailonsunday, right number to staying on the mail the Daily Mail was incensed by the BBC royal documentary the prince's and the press particularly that the widely hailed revelations didn't come to pass.

So whose fault was that the Daily Mail who's fault was it Meghan Markle Daily Mail how comes first the show was going to be accorded Palace sources, so they were somewhat.

Themselves ok number 3 down the sun's coverage of party Gates was rather muted who did is it blamed for that John because the sun was having a party at the same time and it was for them to make a big fuss about Downing Street having a party when the sun was having its own party on I think the same night.

So yes tangibly the coverage was a bit neutered.

Yes, that's right.

It is alleged by the ID at the staff of a sudden had a Christmas party around the same time you're connected to the print world's of the tabloid world any go around Christmas parties.

And maybe he went to the party nearly jobs.

I hope is Armed in that and that he had a great time if he went allegedly and all of these things slightly delicate for everybody isn't it when they're when they're talking about a Christmas parties and reporting on it and yeah Jake there was some thought the on some of the government number 10 parties.

They might have been the turn the stairs as well.

I haven't seen them having Boris journalist mates up to the flat number 10 has been different events are talking about the same Christmas party.

There's been the focus and the ITV News reporting is that right? I do think that he held meetings with the number of senior relatives around that time so I think he

what for example Tim Davie the church general the BBC and Fran Unsworth he's a director of music BBC

around that time although these would have been it's clear from the from the logs from the Downing Street logs that these would have been business meetings and probably rightly entirely separate from I'm sure there was no cheese and wine available for any BBC staff at number 10 winners this week.

I think that's probably a draw a draw between John and Jake congratulations.

You can come to the winners Party when will my thanks to Jake kanter chakrabarti episode 10 famous the price of a chocolate fountain flat party that you probably we're going to have but haven't to donate head to the media episodes when they drop on your podcast app of choice or pop into a browser and type the media podcast you can find my weekly newsletter at the audio industry. the producer of this episode was Matt Hill it was a rethink audio and PPM production.

We will see you again in 20-22.

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