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Read this: 01/04/2022

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01/04/2022…



BBC sounds music Radio podcasts the conversation surrounding sex and gender has become a mindfield for broadcasters did Frank Roche presenter step on one.

I've only shouting minority persistently attacks miss Rowling and misrepresents of use your present as I'm justifiably added fuel to this misrepresent does Thomsett agree in feedback this week.

I'll ask him if he misrepresented the popularity of JK Rowling's views and Bracket her with sex offenders which BBC presenter put this on his website my head capitalist my heart socialist my soul and a guest well.

He is describing what it was doing last Wednesday we were 32 hours after the Chancellor of sat down and we have to analyse it very quickly with a collection of experts which we yes.

It's money boxes Paul Lewis who had the and

U-boat ask explaining Rishi Sunak statement in detail within hours and also be asking him whether attitude to money is changing in the face of the climate crisis and two out of your comfort zone review Radio 2 podcast in which the singer Gary Barlow interview The Geordie musician called Gordon Sumner Sting in the Tail I'm not sure what brought to the table to be honest, I would hope that a music journalist might offer more insight and more questions rather than sledding sting took out find out if he had our other guests about anything to recommend about the program later in feedback.

Off the Record many broadcasting executives editors and presenters have told me that covering the sex and gender controversy can be a nightmare the danger is that they're just not touch at all the fear of The Likely response in last week's front row.

He discussed the Philosopher's Erica tell my maths book drawing the line with its author and explore the relationship between artworks of all kinds and the morality of the Minds behind them is it morally permissible to enjoy the work of art is to personal views and indeed lives are sensible even criminal was something you help the discussion cross the line when the author of Harry Potter was mention and do you think there's a major philosophical distinction between artists who have committed have been found guilty of crimes and artist to simply have unpopular opinions and then you bring up the case of JK Rowling who clearly has a very unpopular opinion.

gender identity and and has as a consequence of that has faced severe and serious criticism are those the same things or something different into happening in that case from London the BBC is going to have to get a grip on the way it covers turn on their rights and reverse the way they have been sidelined in the name of trans inclusive the icing on the cake was in front row on 24th of March when a discussion on our morality with Eric italo matters managed to conflate the entirely reasonable views of JK Rowling with the life of child abuser Eric Gill Rowling's views money out of line with extreme transgender campaign this is Alex from Merseyside I was horrified to hear Tom Sutcliffe repeatedly attacked JK Rowling

After discussing whether the art of R Kelly and Eric Gill should be viewed differently following their identification is sex offenders he bracketed JK Rowling with them and repeatedly referred to her in a way that clearly implied his negative feelings JK Rowling reflects the law in England that does not from Sussex I have just been listening to front row and was dismayed to hear the presenter.

So that JK Rowling views were unpopular.

They are certainly not on popular with middle age women old women women everyone who writes for The Spectator Janice Turner writes for the Times middle-aged men men men Susan Moore used to write for the Guardian and Telegraph etc.

Many people agree with JK Rowling's views, and I just too frightened to say so.

Well, I'm glad to be joined by the presenter of France Tom Sutcliffe can I do with the first of those complaints which says that you are bracketed JK Rowling with R Kelly and Eric Gill who are sex offenders do except.

That's what you do.

I don't think we bracket her with them.

I think we made the point that this was a different case that the spectrum of things here from crimes having been committed to having opinions which are shared by every reader so I don't think that's quite true.

She was at the end of a very broad spectrum of responses that is covered in this book, but how about the other complaint that where you said that you had an unpopular opinion fused that were and pop in the viewers could said you had put forward by Sarah and others giving you a wrong to say yes, I think I was wrong.

I don't think it's wrong to say that her views around popular because they clearly are with the sector, but I think.

In hindsight, I should have done two things.

I should have questioned Eric matthes a bit more closely about whether his characterisation of responses to her work.

Just extrapolated from a very small narrow world which is essentially American academia.

Yet.

He works in a Massachusetts college, and what is consensus in the Massachusetts college is not a racist everywhere and following that up.

I do think I should have been much more explicit about the fact that many many people do not think that's JK Rowling's use our big temperatures the word that he used it's a fair criticism to say that I left the impression that there's only one way of thinking about these things when in fact that is anything but the truth I feel a bit of a hypocrite asking you about these questions.

This is recording if I do something daft it said it out you were doing this life.

Of course well.

I was as you always do and interesting they are thinking about this is because of the

Can I looked at my notes and my my question to Eric matthes as a written out in my notes much more explicitly stated that many people don't accept this is you stick to my written questions when I'm doing a live interview because live interviews of dynamic.

The interviewee responding where you haven't expected they answer a question you're going to ask in three questions time no see you're constantly thinking of things and I think certainly one less know would have learnt as if you're going to walk through a minefield.

You know have a very good map and stick to it.

This is a minefield particular mindful in many ways for men not to say slightly older men as we both are to talk about and I'm getting even talking to people but higher than the BBC another presenters a genuine sense of nervousness about discussing these issues and of course.

That's a real danger in itself isn't at the idea that was so terrified that will use the wrong words that we don't dare deal with issues.

Do you feel that?

Pressure when you move into these areas well.

I think you always feel this pressure and it is partly because of social media because as it where you know the will be response and that's what people feel very very strongly about it and I think that was my mistake in that was not to give a voice to that count of you because people are capable.

I think of listening to view that they don't like as long as they don't feel that they've been excluded entirely or not acknowledged, but the end of some people there and I've heard this cold intellectual terrorism is to capture the language in other words.

They don't want to put their argument.

They trying to shoot them down always before they speak in any detail by a criticising them as individuals and be criticising the language.

They was trying to appropriate the language for their course so we never get to as it with a debate because people have been honest disqualified beforehand know well.

I thought that was one of the interesting thing is here and in this wasn't a debate.

Sitel on front room wasn't to debate about JK Rowling's views on gender.

It was about the ways in which people feel about art works in the people who have made them and the connections between those JK Rowling was with an interesting case to talk about here because even those who criticise of views on gender recognise the moral quality of the books and indeed very often praised.

That's why I bought a Daniel Radcliffe film listings what angry about that they thought I was siting him against her in fact.

I was saying he had recognised in her book moral qualities and it's not paradox that this person that you would dismiss it out of hand and one case you would recognise that they had put into that book quality of tolerance and compassion so I found it fascinating discussion and now of course there's the issue of a Russian cultural Boycott and the question of whether Russian artist should be holding someone is responsible for the active.

The dictator who have surround their country so it's a very happy this never goes away this argument.

No, I don't think it ever goes away, but I think there are new facets to it and that JK Rowling now to a much greater degree.

I think fans and readers wants artist to align with their views exactly in a way that perhaps might not have been place in the past and so that was one of the reasons.

I thought it was legitimate to talk about her in this larger context find me some can I ask you about front row.

Which is now been extended and obviously to 45 minutes.

How does that affect the program we have taken the decision not to cram extra items in but to let the items we got breathe more and you know I hope listeners presenters.

I know do like it.

I certainly like it because you can get very often to the sixth or seventh question which is the point at which the person you're talking to hasn't heard all the questions.

You can get to the things you don't know always the answer to but it also just loosens up to the programme now that we've got people back in the studio.

We can get a bit more crossover program because of that x x said that somebody who has come in say to talk about the book of poetry may well.

Have a view about the play You're also talking about and I like that very much when you get a bit of current between different guests are thanks to Tom Sutcliffe presenter of front row and please do let us know your thoughts about that interview or indeed anything else to do with BBC Radio and podcast.

This is how you can get in touch you can send an email to feedback at bbc.co.uk or write a letter to the addresses feedback PO Box 672 34 London SE18 4ax.

You can follow activity on Twitter by using.

At BBC R4 feedback or you can call us and leave a phone message on 0333 444 5004 standard landline charges apply, but it could cost more on some mobile networks all those details are on our website for asking to BBC Radio listeners to step out of their comfort zones and listen to a program that would normally be on their radar this week.

We have Georgina venison from Norwich and go really who lives in sale, but is originally from Nottinghamshire and Daniel just to get a sense of your listening habits.

What are your top 3 programmes? You'd like to listen to if you were stranded on a desert island programs documentaries and comedies against my top 3 would be more less and the Unbelievable Truth and the enquiry which one they will service and Georgina your top eyes.

Play comedies along with the Daniel I must say but for my favourite three I've chosen last word which comes just before or after this program the 7:30 evening concert on Radio 3 and Outlook on the world service Mary Barlow we write the songs and in this episode he interviewed sting BBC so it was like a desert island discs without the actual discs but with lots of music scattered throughout giving illustration of what sting was talking about it was interview format and clearly done his homework done his research Daniel is that a fair description? Do you think the show itself says it attempts to get to the head of songwriters and Gary Barlow talks to the songwriter.

True that person's career and really tried to focus on a few key moments Rocky songs now.

It's claim in the program.

It says that it's real story the real stories behind the songs Georgina did you get a lot of real stories behind the song oh yes yes for example Instincts background.

I could barely had a Jazz background.

Yeah.

We learn why he's called sting and the reason is just for the girlfriend.

I guess a long time ago and this is him a yellow and black jumper he didn't want to wear the uniform of the jazz band.

They were very folder some bri-nylon, so he refused to and he will the stripey jumper and they said he look like a wasp so that moved into sting of all these things is picked if you have a Performer it was also interviewing is there is rather self-congratulatory.

Do you think they avoided that whole thing is actually and really talked a lot about his background and he even said he was.

Getaway you've got to have we cannot cross quite well and religious explain quite a lot about what inspired him and how we hope that as well, so there was anything unexpected for you in this.

Yes, I don't know listen to Radio 2 and I was a bit surprised to hear trails.

I will trailers other shows in the programme rather that the stuff in the engine is quite loud and they took me out the room someone surprising who were the first one.

That's with me right now came with had a great day warning musicians.

Do is create a sword of a frame around that perfection pretty but the perfection of a moment of a second of Silence is something I buy value from BBC Radio 2.

Surprised you did shot by the trail 70 period in the middle of the interview absolutely I thought that another program has popped in.

I thought there was a mistake on the broadcast.

Oh, no, somebody's press the wrong button in Peugeot I really did it was totally out of context.

I agree with Daniel 100% my body started off by saying that sting was the master of songwriting written stone Cold classics and I suppose that's true.

Isn't it Georgie name? If you don't like it that is a fair description of some of things thinking Roxanne Don't Stand So Close to Me all of those things that I think he played right stone Cold classics and personally I do love his music.

I think he's brilliant and perhaps that's why I enjoy the program if it had been interviewing somebody who was music.

I didn't particularly like and I think I probably would have listened as a songwriter once you've felt that success and that.

They've been so big was it like straight back into the studio and on we go I think we made two albums in a matter of weeks while so studio both Arms s200 cost about 5000 quid or told to make we would go to like I'll be interested in the to be interested in this program.

I think it helps a lot.

I wouldn't trust myself as a sting fan.

I do like the music and I did find myself listening to feel to gold on my Smart speaker after the program.

I don't think that I would be that interested if I was listening to somebody who I wasn't really familiar with and I wasn't aware the songs.

I wouldn't enjoy them that such as well having a senior position is an interview that could have a downside they might want to talk too much about themselves, but the upside could be that they really understand the creative process and are really interested and want to share in a conversation.

So Georgina do you think this is a genuine conversation in which both sides as it will open with each other yes, I do.

I think they were very well matched the generation with different but they both very good and successful songwriter specifically songs and Sting said that a few times.

I'm interested in songs and sort of imply.

That's why he went went solo in the end and broke away from the police, but he had the songs in his mouth and Daniel do you think it would have been better to have same music journalist do the interview and Gary Barlow on the other hand is it is a songwriter you can compare them understand process, but would a journalist have been rather better as an interview with potentially yes, I'm not really sure what brought to the table to be honest.

I would hope that a music journalist might offer more insights more questions Robbins learning sting talk and roll out the same old thing they might say no interviews and The Beatles fan and I've listened to quite a lot of interviews with Paul McCartney and John Lennon about their songwriting process.

Songs when they talk about how they were written or what inspired them to do that and I'm not really sure if I speak into a sting fan about this show that they were say the same thing which will disappoint the future.

We say lovely.

Have you been out of your comfort zone Georgina I didn't think you were out of your comfort zone and where you know I think I'm quite easily pleased that I like the desert island disk format.

So now I really enjoyed it, but I don't know that I want to listen to me again.

If I didn't like the singer songwriter involved and Daniel have are you out of your comfort zone? I think it was an enjoyable show be more tempted to listen to other music documentaries on Radio 2 and I think that listen to encourage me to do that rather than this show.

Thank you very much for joining.

Thank you and if you want more of Sting on BBC Radio 2 also recently start acting and singing in a new Radio 4 drama by Michael Chaplin called.

I must have loved you which you can find on BBC sounds.

Moneybox on Radio 4 presented by Paul Lewis is not afraid of campaigning on behalf of those of its listeners, who are the victims of fraud or administrative incompetent listeners off and in desperation and prompted this comment from Rachel I was so moved by Graham story I was driving home and I couldn't get out of my car until I turned the end did nothing to deserve this I feel so much for him and his family.

Let's hope the company selling the house do the right thing and don't let it go through to Wars I have commission on the Royal Air Force 22 years.

I have flown around the world.

I have my friend around the world.

I've lived in many countries.

I have experienced death.

I've experienced awful tragedy and yet.

I have made us gross terrible terrible.

Actually doing everything away to this for that was part of an interview carried out by presenter.

Paul Lewis who joins me now Paul as we heard ground was tempted to invest savings in the currency in the end up losing his savings is guaranteed his house.

How unusual is his story as you come across like but we have a lot of cases of people losing large amounts of money life-changing amount of money certainly six-figure amounts of money sometime to get it back some time for you.

Don't but I have to say since we broadcast Graham story we did have another contact us having lost a very similar amount to a very similar fraud fraud does a very clever.

They're brilliant at their job.

I have to say it though.

They are thieves.

They are brilliant at it and they live with their lives and they make you do things that in retrospect look foolish, but you're afraid at the time Graham was afraid.

He'd lost all he put in so far so we put more in then.

He was afraid.

Have you put more in it's like gambling? Why you just gamble once more to get back your losses and they are so skilful that should I heard types of some of them and it's very hard to resist the EU can obviously warn people by publicising such cases online away and the latest struggling to keep up is that the case? It's absolutely true in the first half of 2021 which of the latest figures.

We have over 100000 people lost 300 million pounds this type of fraud similar things where you're persuaded in the way to take part in the fraud and there is one thing that might be done to stop it.

The banks could be given complete disability for refund and another suggestion which is made with quite often is at the heart of all these frauds is the faster payment system where you know I could transfer £20 to you.

NS and that's part of the problem the money moves very quickly so there is a suggestion that I believe it happens and some other countries that you could put a 24-hour delay before you have paid money.

Can you pay well last week because we had the chance of financial statement and you've got to react to this sort of thing are you Saturday where is sometimes when you have to say to me will hold on just look at the small print quote hotpicks said it's an internal source of conflict between the public relations of government and the role of someone that you trying to say well actually this is what's actually happening.

Does it get wearing? I don't know it's my job.

I quite enjoy it actually because I like looking at all those things and finding the truth and getting help from accountants and financial experts to find exactly what the truth is I like getting out my spreadsheet and working it all out what I've been doing for the last few days, so we do that and is it depressing although I did this I've been doing personal finance as a job.

For longer than I care to say and I have done this job all the time every politician every chance.

There is the same what they say on the day is not quite what you going to get as an hour as an individual so I'm just used to it.

I suppose it's well.

Obviously the major concern of one of the major concerns now is climate change policy and the way it will affect us well.

Not just now in the future.

He is a question from g in Northamptonshire wi with a global climate catastrophe on the Horizon is there so little talk about how I can use the current situation as inspiration for creative change in favour of green Solutions isn't reducing fuel Duty and incentive to not cut back on using petrol and diesel there is a clear contradiction between the price of petrol which is what the chance with him in his spring statement and trying to get to net zero by 2050 so I do think there is that conflict in making it easier to draw?

And reducing climate change we've always looks like they used to be called now.

They tend to be called esg environmental social and governance and firms report their esg credentials in their annual reports and there is a big movement among Alice's but they want their Investments not just not to do bad so often tobacco.

We're not in Arms or whatever.

They want them to do good.

So they want to invest in firms that will do good for Society no money box is moving to Salford this part of the B&B policy of trying to produce pregnant small around the country any difference.

You are is essentially dependant upon listeners, and I suppose it doesn't matter where you are.

We proved.

It.

Doesn't over the last 2 years Roger because since the lockdown since covid began in March 2020 done every money box from my home.

With two exceptions for various reasons of a headache going to the studio in London but every other programmes has been done from my home and that will continue when the program is so so, what does it mean what it means if there's a new team which has been appointed now in Salford a new editor a new researcher are reported and Whitworth is based in Salford anyway, and we will be a Salford programme from the Salford studio snow in the long term do we and I don't imagine that this is all here very much that's different.

We would like to get out and about more on that may be easier from Salford than it is from London for various reasons you might be more of a knot in the studio and maybe something on the patient and I look forward to that very much, but I think the idea is that it will sound look and feel very much the same.

It is a successful programme 1 and a quarter million listeners and over a quarter of a million on podcast so I think it is a it's going to carry on but we will see subtle changes.

I'm sure that was released.

Thank you.

I have to say thank you and thank you to you and if you want to hear the full story of G ordeal which I discussed with Paul the program is available on BBC sounds.

It's the edition broadcast on Saturday the 19th of March and that's it for this week to let us know these years you'd like us to discuss and investigate until next week, goodbye.


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