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Read this: 25/03/2022

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25/03/2022…



BBC sounds music Radio podcasts the first casualty of War is truth into the Russian invasion of Ukraine the truth from the lies, so blatantly told by the Russian president and his army of propaganda.

I was so horrified by his words but know that this is exactly my TV on our screens in feedback this week will be talking to the BBC World Service is editor of disinformation who tells how she tries to counter the Wiltshire of lies and misleading information about the complete which is seeping into our lives of the airwaves and through social media and are you seeking Solace in culture than you may well listen to this cultural life with John Wilson he tells us about his choice of guests very often.

They're talking about the Works that they love and these are people who make the work that we love it's a really interesting route into.

Seeds the formative moments the creative process, but Wollaston is love the program as much as he does and R2 out-of-sample the new drama series our friends in the North which has just started on Radio 4 what I want to say how lovely it was there something with Geordie accent north east accident happened to hear something from my area.

So that was lovely.

It's really refreshing does it matter that the friend started out on television 26 years ago find out later in feet.

Complex with had to wait days and sometimes weeks to discover what it happened and our information often came from only one side now.

It's social media were almost witnessing events in real time from both sides except of course in Russia where the Putin government maintains a vice-like grip on the media do with a Russian people have any idea of what is really going on in Ukraine what one listener wrote was recently Chris party.

I heard the Russian foreign minister justifying the attack on the maternity hospital this man.

Felt entirely Justified as they were soldiers in there.

He accused the critics of whining and any women and babies in their I was so horrified by his words but no that's exactly what are the Russians on the TV on our screens one of the biggest forms of propaganda is to say nothing about what you are doing ignorance is enough to sow The Seeds of doubt.

News, I have to believe that we are being sold on the line reports although there is bound to be a degree of selection.

So how does the BBC determined between fact and and what stories to cover but I'm delighted to be joined by Rebecca skip the disinformation editor for the BBC World Service I just part of a team which has been in place since 2018 this and first wall from the the point of view of people within Russia and what they are hearing we hear various accounts.

I don't know how people know this and maybe 78% of people within Russia believe what they've been told by Mr Putin to think that's probably accurate.

I think it's really difficult for us to understand as people who live in a society where we do have organisations like to see we have a pluralistic media.

What is actually like to live in a situation where you are fed a state narrative constantly that can have absolutely no resemblance to what?

Out in the real world so to speak and that's what we're saying in Russia now, so the main channels.

There are still not calling this a war zone.

It's a special military operation and the people have been told that Russia is there deliberate ukrainians.

Who are you know under the floor love neo-nazis, which is you know one of the reasons and we did a piece on this at get this extraordinary disconnect between families many of whom have relatives in Russia that you were based in Ukraine and they're saying literally the headline was my mother won't believe that.

I'm being shall definitely Under Fire from they talk to someone and relative whatever in Russia and they don't believe it.

That's what is happening.

They think of the Ukraine say bum in their own city.

That's what they do.

I mean.

It's absolutely extraordinary the level of disconnect between what happening in reality and what a lot of people in Russia or being and also saying conspiracy theorist that you going to this I think when.

Evidence to the apartment read committed there was someone from Chatham House I think you are Giles who said covid Denier spirited seamlessly to back in Russian disinformation.

Yeah, it's extraordinary.

It's really interesting it is absolutely you do see this.

I mean when we should have follow conspiracy theorists they've gone from anti-5g anti-vax to climate denial and now they're pivoting to being anti-war and it's all about this kind of idea of the big state the state narrative that can't be believed and because everybody's talking about Ukraine and Russia this is the thing that they've latched onto as something to question, but it's difficult for you.

Isn't it anymore both sides, is you propaganda both sides often lion the National in this case it's predominantly Russia but there must be a chance that there is propaganda coming out from Ukraine for understandable reasons which isn't true.

Have you seen it?

I think one of the things that we have to be really careful about and you know my team doing this is brilliant from this perspective is we don't take her a viewpoint as to you know the people who we know tipper do this in the people who we think of a kind of inverted commas.

Good guys in the situation.

I wouldn't want to give an any sense that have a false equivalency Russia is where the vast majority of the different is coming from but we're seeing from Ukraine is what you would expect in a war situation.

Yes, it's propaganda.

It's kind of there's lots of them young people putting memes of superheroes mythical narrative around Mr zelensky.

Who is I have to say it an absolutely fantastic broadcaster from that perspective has managed to get his message across in a really affect urban Legends that started popping out so things like the ghost of Kiev who's this mysterious fighter pilot who was apparently sort of you know brought down lots of Russian planes, so you've got.

Troops that you would expect as part of a war propaganda machine to come in but as far as the actual kind of active this information is concerned we haven't seen a huge amount of that coming from Ukraine there is so much disinformation.

You must feel in at the moment.

Just plug one hell.

There's another one over there.

Do not just get exhausted and demoralised by the sheer scale of what you face especially when it started and we were just having literally it's 7 in the morning and I was sorted like ok right how we gonna do this and what kind of grabbing people left right and centre and what's the most effective way of making sure everybody knew the stuff that was writing the stuff that was wrong.

We have this kind of verification grid that still it actually is working now that we did on the fly and yeah, I mean it.

Can I think if you let it can feel it but we've gotta keep going at it and also give people the tools to be able to check things for themselves because we can't check everything so yeah, but it feels like it's important that we doing did you have to check your own stuff?

In this situation, it's impossible not to be emotionally involved and not feel oneself on the side of Ukraine in the face of this information, but you can't on the side of anybody can you you have to be on the side of the truth insofar as you can ascertain if so, do you find some of your stuff emotionally you have two on the save them hold on you've got to remain objective even in this situation.

They are absolutely brilliant from that perspective and I completely take my hat off to them because obviously you know a lot of the people who were working with also because of the skills that we need our people who from Ukraine or are people have a connection to the country and right from the word go when we brought all this of team of people together people who are experts in language in the region in open-source intelligence and information.

They have all banded together and every bit of information that we've seen that people have asked us to check all we've seen going viral.

They dealt with it with the same sort of impartiality and level.

That's allowed us to really kind of tell the accurate story of what's actually happening and there is the good side of social media isn't that I mean in the end the oppressive state does find it more difficult to control social media than it does state Media almost by definition so anyway to Russians were gradually understand.

What is happening in Ukraine at the moment Facebook has banned Instagram is banned.

You know it's very difficult for rushing to get access to Western media although the BBC just doing its best from the perspective of putting information out on shortwave radios and giving advice to people how they can sort of circumvent some of these restrictions, but you have to hope that will happen.

Yeah, that's what we do if they will service you know we've try and make the truth available Friel people so we will keep doing this and yeah, we have to hope that it will get through to people.

Thanks to Rebecca skimage the disinformation editor for the BBC world service and on Wednesday shortly after we recorded that interview the government agreed to give the BBC an extra 4 million pounds spent on countering the Russian disinformation over Ukraine and the additional cost to reporting.

Please do let us know your thoughts about that interview or anything else to do with BBC Radio and podcast.

This is how you can get in touch you can send an email to feedback at bbc.co.uk or write a letter the address is feedback PO Box 7234 London SE1 4yx you can follow our activity on Twitter by using BBC R4 feedback or you can call us and leave a phone message on 0300 333 4445 standard landline charges apply, but it could cost more on some more.

All those details are on our website well one of these shoes that you've been contacting us about has been the disappearance of news briefing broadcast daily on Radio 4 at 5:30 in the morning.

It's absence for over a week has been noticed.

Why is it been dropped? Will it be coming back? I'll be busy spokesperson told since the start of the pandemic with kept schedules under review and stream does necessary and it's very occasionally still necessary to make Changes but waiting to minimise these as much as possible.

Let's hope that means it is coming back soon which week we're asking to BBC Radio listeners to step out of their comfort zones and listen to a program that wouldn't normally be on their radar.

We have Georgina Bennison from Norwich and Daniel Riley who lives in sale but was originally from Nottinghamshire that the usual listening habits if you understand.

Topsy choices listen to programs or comedies, so my top three would be more or less the Unbelievable Truth and the enquiry was on the website and Georgina it will be your top it was difficult to Whittle it down but now I think last word the evening concerts on radio 3 it comes at 7:30 and Outlook on the world service programmes to a new series was the first instalment of a new series starting on Radio 4 which is being very heavy publicise.

It's our friends in the North you may remember I certainly do the TV programme from 1996 at Georgina is the story of 4 people from the northeast starting the late teenage years through to their Middle Ages what else was it about you think it was a big.

What was it Saturday night Sunday morning type of thing working class or middle class people in the

Coming as age and their life.

I think it's time but lots of the references relate to what's happening today.

Especially people disillusionment with his dated in anyway portrayed the first episodes events from 1960s.

Do you think it's seem to know in that it was setting that period so it was absolutely right.

It would have been funny if the language have been updated and yes, it was 16.

So it had to be in 60s style of speaking in the context of the North in the 60s and I think they got that spot on this is the difficulties and with his programs which deal with his certainly recent history.

It said they've got to be true to the time and they're gonna be relevant today and you're a pull off those two tricks.

Did you think they did it down? I think they did that relatively well.

It was of its time and it was set at referring to some historical events that are happening at that time.

I think that some of the things they talked about people's disillusion with politics coming-of-age making a large choices character not dissimilar to a certain crab, North architects at call John Coulson I mean that becomes clear all of those things if you actually did behind the drama.

There's a fascinating history.

Do you need to dig behind the drama? Do you think I think it might have a little bit value to that drama.

Obviously I'm not of that era.

I wasn't alive in the 60s.

So I wasn't sure that it was quite interesting to hear things on quite a micro-level.

So what would people experiencing in the north east that time with delayed movement and they will reflecting on the Civil Rights Movement in America as well.

But you didn't know in detail that background was there enjoyment in a you enjoyed the thing I was regarded as I thought they presented in terms of reference what happened my picture and some of the things worth money and Georgina do you think it helps to know the historical background if you are aware of what happened in the first Labour government of the High Hopes at the beginning and dissolution later.

I don't think you needed to know that at all.

I think it's self-explanatory and that's what was so interesting and I must had one of the things.

I loved was the music of the time the soundtrack in other words the musical soundtrack some things I've heard I knew them but it was lovely to hear them in Context that was going there so that's what they were listening to.

I've been a student for a full week and my world had changed from black and white to technicolour.

We met our usual place where we always met you soon obvious nothing would ever be the same for us and Mary it says which is you know you want to change the world Italian cheese your success that it was really good and again like the television production, so I can't compare it, but what I want to say, how lovely it was to hear something with Geordie accent north east accident and it ties in with the fact that film The Duke has just been released for me because I saw that and it's so rare it had been rare to hear something from an area and most of the accents were northern northeastern so that.

It's really refreshing but there are 9 episodes actually today, so the question is how you going to come back for more Daniel will you be linked to the second third or 80 of the 9 10 episode.

I think it's doubtful.

I don't know listen to radio drama and it was difficult for me to really engage with this.

I normally doing something else and when I listen to BBC Radio and for this I have to sit down with headphones and listen intently just to follow, so I can see the value of the programs.

I just don't think it's and Georgina yes, I'm much more like you to listen to some of the others Megan Hall 9 or 10 episodes, but unlike Daniel there's something like that.

I do make the time to sit down and we can listen to it on Catch Up I can make my own time I could listen to it one evening for example and not do something at the same time not do the washing up to have it just listen yeah.

Yeah, I'd like to hear a little bit.

Are you out of your comfort zone and thinking you're not judging is yes, I'm not out of my comfort zone.

I like it very much and Daniel your hovering on the edge.

I think I'm not sure in the sauna out.

When is it like it, but it's not something I wasn't sold to let us know if you would like to be put out of your comfort zone.

One of the relatively new art strands on Radio 4 is this cultural life a 42 minute Interview series in which John Wilson formula front row.

Speak to cultural figures about their creative process inspirations and experiences it started in the autumn of last year with guests including Tracey Emin Kenneth Branagh and Paul McCartney who claimed it was John Lennon Who instigated The Beatles you were in the biggest band in the world.

They remain the biggest and they're saying but you are of course the person who instigated the split of that band and people were heartbroken still stop writer.

I'm not the person who instigated the split you brought the lies in their dinner.

I know no John walk into the room one day and said I'm leaving the beach is that instigating the split or not, but you'll left at different points that you walked into a room and said I'm leaving The Beatles and he said it's quite thrilling is Rod

Divorce ok and then we were left to pick up the pieces.

This is what some of you have made of The Strand so far pull the rocket Headingley Leeds just had to write feedback to say how much I enjoyed the Tracey Emin interview on this cultural life is an interesting person and so eloquent.

I was totally absorbed by this interview and inspired by her story and Ferguson Lewes Sussex what a brilliant start to John Wilson's new series Kenneth Branagh was of course a gas fire excellence every day acquity even offering of Olivia in Gill good along the way but John Wilson was a perfect interview this was radio it it's very best to join by John Wilson the host of this life and I suppose the first enjoys you wanted challenge this quote that it was radio it is very best and that you were the perfect interviewer blessing as I have said here.

Can you read out those very kind but very welcome comments from listeners.

That's lovely to hear where the idea come from and where there was a big debate about.

What did you ask your mum should be where did this cultural life come from? I have done so many interviews over the years with cultural figures with artists who say I worked on front row for many years and elsewhere on Radio 4 joy the long form interview format and I think it was a chance given the was a shake-up of the schedule.

Just to go a bit deeper and the format is some which I think is really interesting.

It's all about the creative lives in the working processes of the world's leading creative figures, but the purpose of our conversation really is to find what makes the creative mind tick and not to jump on as he is very often offered with an opportunity a chance to talk about the new work and that sometimes is.

Promotional interview are you often surprised because obviously have a carefully structured interview know the thing backwards, but there are the moment say anything and it realise that and that you know way does the stamp moments where they think I haven't thought about that.

Yes, I think that has happened in most of the programme to every interview.

I think is revealed something surprising because people are allowed to talk about the experiences that really means something to them and they started dig deep into their own memories and saiki k.

I'm after instance actor director running the Young Vic theatre.

He talked about seeing Steve McQueen film 12 Years a Slave now.

You would expect him to talk about that as an inspirational moment in fact.

He said he walked out the cinema and thought it's all over to me.

What story is the left to tell what can I do as a creative person anymore Steve McQueen has done it.

It can't be better it happens.

I think in every interview.

There's always a revelation.

Well, at least his appreciate this is one wants to comment on your style roast Battle East Devon thanks to you to John Wilson for your sensitive guidance and listening and you up from your thoughtful answers and the extra descriptions you gave us so Connie the awful racial abuse you experienced the hours in the garage.

So beautiful story of your father's friend the taxi driver just to mention a few moments, but it was all wonderful it felt like I was sharing a real conversation not knowing where it was going or what was going to happen next Dublin does the conversation sometimes going directions.

You don't expect you presume you got structure, but then you're suddenly listening and you think we better follow this one that's interested.

I've got to say thank you very much to Rose I love that episode with Akram Khan as well.

It was incredibly candid and it was powerful and it was very revealing and personal in advance of each interview Edwina Pitman

Will ask the best to come up with 405 cultural turning points or works that have had a real form of impact and that can be anything can be a person that's influence summer relationship global event a personal trying for a failure, but the important thing is that it has a significant impact on their creative and I do know those choices in advance Roger we can do to find out how those things might have informed the work that we then know and Love by those artists were talking to but often the conversation goes into really interesting and unexpected areas nothing.

That's where it becomes surprises well.

We features at the Orange Tree with Mike Leigh in are out of comfort zone furniture back in November 2021 and this is what June Bevington from North Yorkshire and Bill Byrne from Ely had to say although it was technical an interview itself almost like a monologue in away with the presenter kind of feeding him certain things that were easy to answer.

The one thing my family went round about organic acting he mentioned that quite a few times.

It was never picked up on and I still don't know what it means and I didn't gain any clue slightly out of my comfort zone and some of the references to maybe like french new wave cinema and things like that so to a certain degree.

I was is my comfort zone, but not to the extent that it took away from my enjoyment of the programme if anything it's kind of gave me new leads that I'm interested in following words on Wilson June Bevington didn't know what you meant when you refer to organic acting and what did you mean? I don't think I refer to organic play refers to what tune was picking up on there was might Lee talking about his incredibly idiosyncratic method of filmmaking where he creates the characters.

The actors and I think he was talking about the Organic process there.

We want these supposed to be accessible first and foremost.

We want them to be entertaining revelatory moving as they often are but we do know that the guests will sometimes two things that the audience might not be familiar with you mentioned my Glee they're talking about the new wave.

I think that's what they was referencing there.

I think the point is that yes, he talks very passionately about the influence of seeing French new wave films in the 1960s, but we did also explore his life drawing class as a student at his Love of illustration and of course as we've already mention that incredibly idiosyncratic very personal filmmaking and in terms of letting people talk.

I probably consciously have sat back more and listened more with this series and allow the guest to lead us into this.

Testing territory because they're not here to sell a new a work.

This is not promo they agree to do this show as I said because they want to do this show because there's no commercial obligation to do so and I think of my questions I possibly simpler that fewer that's partly to do with experience.

It's also having a great producer keeping me in check and we're not doing linear biography on this guy.

That's the other thing we looking at a life through the prism of those specific experiences and we can go dn19 episodes who did most like to interview in the next few months does a cute person Wishlist Bob Dylan would be way up there, but I think more realistically cos he doesn't really do many interviews.

I think they took the two women I'll give you both brilliant artist who are doing things their way who have been and remain real cultural game changers, I think and that's Beyonce and Taylor Swift so there's an open invitation to both of them for the

Well, of course both will be listening to feedback John Lewis and thank you very much.

Thanks Roger that was the presenter of this cultural life John Wilson and that's it for this week next week will be talking to Paul Lewis from Moneybox who's been hard at work analysing the Chancellors latest financial statement and what it means for us all to let us know the questions and observations you like us to put to him and then goodbye.


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