Read this: Reporting the French riots

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts from BBC Radio 4 today we're going to be taking a look at the west in France any issues for journalists covering the story president macron blames video games and social media for inciting violence and did yesterday suggested looking at ways to cut off the likes of talking Snapchat in future meanwhile fake news false claims about what's been going on.

I've been in abundance journalists have been attacked and injured so lots to discuss around the medias role, Katya Adler BBC reporter stories with us.

We've also got unless you've been out reporting for French outlets, and we've got one of the boxes of adults France press the big news agency, but before we get into that I want to cry and start with Emma Tucker the editor-in-chief of the Wall Street Journal because this week's marks 100 days since one of them as reporters M&S coverage was arrested in Russia for your forehead.

Accused of being a spy charges that he the us and the Wall Street Journal all tonight he is the first western journalist to be detained in Russia since the Cold war and Emma welcome to the meteor shower last for the latest on Evans situation and a moment but can you just take us back and remind people the circumstances of his arrest back in March well is an accredited journalist in Russia he had full accreditation from the Russian foreign ministry, and he was doing what he always does he was out reporting from the ground.

He was covering a story over in the east of Russia and while he was out on this assignment.

He felt check in with us.

We have a difficult territories which I'm sure the other journalists will recognise whereby we ask people to check in twice a day you missed his morning check in and then he needs to go in his afternoon.

In Andover night, we it was confirmed that he's been picked up and arrested and taken back to Moscow to be held there and at what point of me after the first people.

I'm sure listening will be interested in the check-in system.

Will you will you very worried after the first non checking and it's very rare that he will not to check in.

It's unusual and I didn't like it, but I panic because you know people losing to the access.

They get tied up doing something so I didn't like it.

I did then panic when I don't panic but I didn't start to really worry when in the afternoon the manager told me that the second check in the head had been missed that point we all started to worry.

I went home.

I went to bed.

I left my phone call me if it's bad news and my phone went off at 4 in the morning and she get emotional thinking about it was so awful she was ringing to tell me that he had

Is espionage mean you have of course been quite categorically that the charges he was arrested on are completely baseless totally completely everybody knows that the US government and his family is complete complete rubbish and he's a Russian heritage and left his family left Russia before he was born is that right is American born his parents fled the Soviet Union his parents of Soviet Jews who left the Soviet Union in the 1970s to start a new life in America they took advantage of that was allowed to leave the Soviet Union and his older sister Danielle were both born in the US and educated hear the thing about Evernote bilingual and he was interested in his heritage.

You know he's with his parents and his parents on holiday.

What's the country he was really really understood the country as well, and this is this is what makes them such a great with water and what do you know now about the conditions that he's being held in.

What did you know you know early on the song before that one thing that we can one using we can report is that he was finally granted consular access the last time you got that was on it for the 17th of the US ambassador went to visit in beginning on July 3rd and she was able to tell us because we have very limited information, but she was able to tell us that he's in good health and he's bearing up.

Ok, so yeah.

I think he's there he's reading his he can receive letters from people that you can send letters out all heavily.

Everything goes to the centre, but do you know he's doing what is looking after your lawyers? Yes, he has someone that's where we get most of our information.

We can't speak to him directly but we can contact him by the lies and he's got a very good relationship with them and yeah, so he's in contact with them and you know the 100-day anniversary of his arrest is Friday the 7th of July what more can you tell us about these reports that would just yesterday about a possible prisoner swap because the person was quoted as saying they have been certain contacts on the subject but that they must be carried out and continue in complete silence.

Yes, we we don't know what he was referring to we can only speculate we have no idea we don't know anything I mean.

Is it in the normal course of events in cases like this is that once there's been a trial and thank you convicted then some sort of prisoners, what might take place and but again I stress we don't we have had nothing official simply be picked up on this this quote from the the Kremlin spokesman, which we don't know what it was referring to but he did say that and I suppose if you and me all editors, is that if he was freed as part of a prisoners potential of course give licence to other oppressive regimes to target Western journalists and use them as leverage.

Yes, it is a really worrying trend.

You know it's a 17 and the man and the that he's been arrested and then there's a wider question the use of chilling impact.

This is having on on reporting from around the world.

I think the sort of out loud all the Landscape for journalists for awarded in particular is not great at the moment because editors have to worry about the safety of their generous in very hostile countries there something like 40 American journalists have been wrongfully detained in countries around the world, but it seems are using to try and get leverage and it really is a sad sad day for all of us if that's because we need to be on the ground telling the stories of w.

Presume it I want to bring in Phil check when the global news director 4fp.

Presumably it when it comes to reporting in Russia there's also your has a chilling effect I think ever stop for afp before he joined the Wall Street Journal how are you feel managing your Moscow Bureau in light of what happened to him.

It's been a really really tough obviously an event like what's happened to Evan just cost to Cloud you know everybody trying to do the job in going to cook condition, so which is absolutely loved by the whole team.

You know nothing but great things I can say about him as a journalist and so obviously it's everybody who is there some decide to leave others cannot believe me.

They may be rushing and a try to do their job as best.

I can not really knowing where the line is I think that's what's what's so hard.

What level do you what kind of staffing do you currently have in Russia for Wall Street Journal it's too dangerous.

We have very talented reporters.

Who are you doing covering the story from outside.

They got contact still inside Russia but it is a very very dangerous place to present as we discover.

We do have to be behind bars and mistrust people in France have of journalist which he isn't the similar to here in the UK you were talking about you know the kind of issues facing cameras on your journey is particularly in Russia but but you'd appreciate the genuine with some journalists like reporters like heaven face in bringing them the news I think yes and no I think I mean one thing that.

Amazing is the level of support we've had from other journalist book from the wider public our own readers are really you know very supportive and outraged on our behalf that's been very encouraging but I think it's underappreciated at the risks that mistake and an importance of what they doing.

I mean America where they do take independent journalism very very seriously hear that so I think that's partly explains incredible response without here, but I don't know I mean I think that we need to tell the world more often.

You know how and complicated it is to maintain a network of phone correspondence.

You know the back work that goes into the security you have to make on the ground people's families.

You know it's a complex and difficult business keeping a phone correspondence Network going very very expensive and as I said you know this Friday

7th of July is the 100-day Anniversary at South how will you be mocking it by making lots of noise one of the things that we need to do story in the spotlight which is very difficult when you're getting limited information, but we are going to do it.

It's 100 days.

We are going to wrap the paper to remind everybody of this back to the homepage takeover and there's going to be a big twitter storm at 10:30 a.m.

Eastern time here where we going encourage everyone to take to social media to you again flight and you know the more we can spread that message to better because I say it's really important.

Keep reminding people that journalist who were simply doing his job is wrongfully detained and is behind bars in Russia and he should be released as soon as possible sure everyone listen to that what Echo that sentiment Emma Tucker editor and chief of the Wall Street Journal thanks so much for coming on the media show.

Set a reminder for anyone tuning in you are listening to the media show we were talking about the incarceration of Evan we're gonna turn to France now where yesterday president macron said he believes the peak item has now passed the starting point was the fatal shooting last Tuesday of a 17-year old male by a policeman in a traffic stop in a Suburb of Paris in the violence that for thousands were arrested shops looted and hundreds of people has hundreds of vehicles satellite across the country which is a tourist hotspot and as you can see there's right.

Please everywhere around this is not the face of France had a Man U on my car wants you to see with that was cashier will be talking moment she was on the streets of Paris at the Ngo reporters without borders says at least 18 journalists were attacked during the process and writing photographers have had their kid smashed reporters forget.

I have been assaulted a freelance covering protests in the city, but also needed stitches after being hit with a crowbar and a cold should also point out that hundreds of police have been injured.

So let's find out what it's been like for journalists have been out reporting not just Kasia the BBC's Europe editor Phil check.

When did the global news director for aliens from press FPV we have from earlier? That's the news agency my PSN is the editor of the local France and Boris Karloff is a journalist with BFM TV Frances most watch Rolling news channel and welcome to all of you, please start With You Boris tell us what your experience has been because your channel.

I think he's been reporting nonstop on this story of course is Windsor Motors surveillance out today.

Enjoy after this.

The start of the reality of this world is the average age of arrested in 17 years old a very younger boys 45 police wear immobiliser unit that nobody on mobility in fighting terrorism operation aware of this ever since influences of first time when I see her that's reported many fireworks as a policeman cars, where set on fire and lots of businesses and shops and police station same was attacked by two people incredible situation is very difficult for us to work.

Yes, I'm going to ask you about that, but let's have a listen first to a clip of you reporting this one from non tear early and the evening of Tuesday the 27th of June which was the day now killed when you put in front of a police van and you're talking about the violence that has started to tell me a bit about what happened when you first tried to report from that seen because I understand what you said earlier.

It was difficult for journalist the same people were telling you that you should leave yes tell us that they are the only way to be here in the population is to is to burn everything police station.

Play Dead by police may recognise them and that we don't tell the trust and that we protect support his wishes every is real people answers as to leave this place is very problematic to work in another in working introduce your master used to protest in Paris in the same situation as since but it does it mean.

What does it mean you do in terms of you know staying safe.

Do you take a security guard and what's the situation for you? We have to go and security with don't make our job is a camera.

IPhone just like this equipment so you're much that's obvious in the population.

We can't use a dangerous for the generous to work in this situation and do you think I mean? Is it about mistrust of the media also have hatred of journalists, or is it actually because the kids is expensive and people might think it's worth robbing it.

I wonder what you think.

I think of the Press in France today in prayers people say is near to Emmanuel independence.

Just make our work and since yellow jackets in Paris reporting on the story for the BBC what precautions have you had to take and what reaction have you had from people on the ground so the BBC when you are known to be to go out of this kind of situation the BBC get Riot training and also worked in the Middle East for many years and warzones you get a training course training which is renewed every 3 years and those sort of things are insurance to course going to be with you, but it's also to equip us with realising key things for example daytime to the housing estate where they lived and then died can look quite calm during the day.

The writing was at night, but it can change you get one look one person the whole group of people appear in your present that did happen to us already on the on the first day that we were there as well, but things happen very fast what happens if you get pregnant several times with threatens and icam-1 were threatened.

We will chat with the mobile phone but just by raising a mobile phone and filming also you know where were you before 9? Why is it that the press and the authorities only look when something awful happens big question also many people that we spoke to in the suburbs.

Not actually from nice family as well saying the reason that Niall's case is getting so much attention now from the press with the media with the authorities in France responding.

It's because on people's mobile phones from several different angles, which means that the policeman who shot now initially he said he thought that his life and the life of another please was engaged.

That was shown from people's personal phone footage to be absolutely not the case but then in in the subsoil say to you there are many knives but but they're so they injuries the publication of discrimination racial profiling that they say they face every single day is not recorded and we the present not there and that leads to a lot of research.

Also clearly from what we look like.

We leave very different life to the ones that they experienced in the suburbs and they object to being portrayed as I'm into big police in France put out a press release calling the average horse the pests and so what they fear is that the press is there to portray them as such and so there is a deep distrust that also I have to say we face when we're going out to demonstrations of the far right in France as well there you also have a deep distrust of as you know is called main.

And we are not welcome and that can also lead to us being pushed around or cameras being taken or damaged ok and in terms of your approach to this story.

You know if your face with unrest across the country or was it started in the outskirts of Paris how do you decide I don't mean what angle inside of a how do you decide how you're going to cover it with the BBC's very lucky in that we have lots of talented reporters across Europe and so with a story like that.

So big you know you have such huge riot across countries shocking the country and Francis alloys abroad recent report of different parts of France because it's important to show it is not just Paris and so we we are able to do that.

It's important to get different voices on clearly, so where is of course the the people who live in the Borneo in the suburbs of the ones attracting attention and we made an effort to go and talk to.

A police Union as well to get their perspective I went to Francis ministry of foreign affairs to talk to get a government perspective and also how it feels being from the outside so I think for credibility you really do always have to get the different perspectives and the different voice as well as the young right as what about their mums and dads so mean it was so striking.

I thought he had to leave the biggest emergency that but you're busy looking at right now which is France invasion of Ukraine he was an easy to somebody had to leave but the press conference that was appealing to the mama and papa.

He was talking to the mums and dads.

I'm over the young Writers keep them at home.

Keep them off social media with their messages asking them together on the streets and protest, but it's also an indication of fact that he had to ask Mum's and Dad's but he is aware that French authorities.

Just do not have a foothold or any Trust

Community David reach felt really believably an appeal for come in from afp, and we're talking earlier about the precautions.

Jenner's have to take and presumably wenax SC story becomes an issue when Janice are being attacked potentially I'm assuming that a news agency like yours becomes even more useful to newspapers and TV channels.

You know you can provide the material that perhaps they may be less able to get I don't know what I would say for example.

Is you know we have a full-time work every day when the crisis someone so therefore has contacts in the community and those people that you can call on when you need to go in there and what time you can build trust and also we have a network of France which means we can mobilise in different areas of unrest Breakout

React as things evolved for clients such as BBC one of the world and the levels of precaution and catch you and Boris it was talking little in terms of you know filming on iPhone security guards whatever it might be is that also the kind of things that they have the word implement probably the universe which Boris mention we've seen that we'll anger towards Media on the street in particular TV I would say I saw the text and have been able to work reasonably easily on demonstrations in the last 560 years huge sensitively about TV and if you sensitive about live TV is really raised the stakes what I would say over the last week is it's really going up and it was really you know that my child with a couple of injured.

Maybe it was the younger demographic.

I think was also linked to criminality going on there for the Zafira images.

Would then be used by police also on later you know to criminal cases that broke boys was saying that and also saying about mistress Emma Pearce and editor of the local France if I bought you and hear you know has mistrust in the medium brown ever been this bad and I was looking at the latest reuters reuters in France is one of the lowest scoring European countries for public trust in the news to 30% trust it most of the time.

I saw this a lot since since the pandemic.

This time was this absolute of disinformation on social media about about the riots in France they were crazy crazy stories going round that seem to be sing to me to defined by english-language Media accounts particularly the far right in the UK and us a really amplifying these are the stories sharing video clips not years ago worry.

Just like stills from movie or something I saw him to need a British far-right party with sharing a clip from one of The Fast and the Furious movies and was claiming the people pushing car multi-storey car parks in France that didn't happen so it seems to me that this information has really picked up a notch this time and present has been claiming social media monks.

I'm thinking video games fighting it all.

He seems to be saying perhaps in future the cut-off social media.

What do you how do you think that will go down Emma and then catch I think maybe that might be slightly.

MTG Lord Mayor's yesterday and it is getting reported what I said about what he said in a meeting so it second-hand and they have been like we carefully rolling back on or not today.

It's not quite as extreme as it sounds.

I think they're looking to bring in some provisions for a social media bill is already going through Parliament so I guess we'll see you just as we come towards the end.

What would be your suggest it will be your thoughts on the strategy that president macron has employed over the last few days weather is working and any sense but he's tried to tread quite a tightrope in a very security of country.

I think where the far-right is breathing down his neck in public opinion polls to exit security forces on but at the same time try to not inflamed passion, so he did not call for a state of emergency which is what we saw the last time.

They were such huge riots in France that was back in 2000.

A different than is that that it was injustice other two didn't spread into mainstream France you like and that has been put down to social media.

That's why he's so worried about it right.

Well.

We could but we can't because we've run out of time as usual too much to say on the media show not enough time.

Thank you all so much for being on and thank you to everybody for listening.

Goodbye.