Read this: The Mail on Sunday s Basic Instinct A Twitter Takeover

celebrate summer with Mamma Mia take it's funny that all around the world on stage in London that timer songs as ABBA

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Hello and welcome to starring it up with andi, and miquita Oliver back to the original dinner party.

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Hello welcome to the media podcast Iron Man sleeping on the sound on their Angela Rayner Basic Instinct story widespread condemnation is edited David delete cry for free speech red herring the BBC launch is an experiment to prove its value.

Will they convince get to pay the licence fee to speak to investigative journalist James Ball about Elon Musk Twitter takeover we find out which companies are making waves in the audio industry podcast in this.

Week's news talk to you with Piers Morgan's debut outperforming and Neil GB news launch last year by 20% between the team dorisa said she may intervene over newsquest takeover of rival auctions the merger receive the 2 largest local news.

East Anglia come under single ownership and finally ministers of formerly starting the process of privatising Channel 4 the announcement was made as part of a slew of new media policies to keep the you is public service broadcasters distinctively British Now onto the show I'm here with two Media experts are ready to help us superstories shaking up the media this week first up midi editor for the Guardian gym welcome.

I see that you've been keeping a close eye as we all have of course on the launch of Talk TV this week Piers Morgan joining in with the give me a bit of a retweet as well break into read your your writing.

What do you make it a launch it benefits on the comparison with GB news given that it didn't fall off.

Are it look relatively slick and everything pretty much went to plan it's flattered by the comparison.

I mean I'm not the sort of person it seemed out so I'm not really going to be watching an awful.

Lot of it who is aimed at you think well.

I think it's not entirely non-existent and not

Completely mad idea that there are people who just don't like the existing news channels.

They were the two flat or they feel they are too.

It's a horrible term woke and I think it's interesting TVs gone out of its way to avoid being cold and right-wing news channel and is instead going down the hole.

It's not about politics.

It's about common Sense and cancel culture.

That's the problem and we can see that there a has got 300000 on his first night 200000 on a second and by the time this comes out.

We might have an idea of where it's levelling off at but it's not an enormous audience given her much advertising they put behind that you can't go round anywhere in England at the moment without seeing a bus with Piers Morgan's face on the side of it's late, but a lot of money into this and at the moment.

They're being beaten by dates on BBC4 structured and it's less exciting than maybe.

I thought it would be so they got a bit of trouble with Sharon Osbourne and her numbers people are getting not engaged with that.

Old bill to try and get that up to 20 decent even 2 GB news levels Piers Morgan on GMB the sort of cantankerous guy in the corner with the foil season 3 going to come on pears and he would get written up everywhere everything he said every morning would be one click that went viral and as the sort of NewsDay develop all the celebrity in Focus websites with write-up Piers Morgan has just said this you won't believe it.

It will be viral catnip and with this show I wonder whether he'll suffer from just not really having rivals wanting to help much on the topic of the day and whether his rants and maybe a little bit too Palmas to political and not about the news of the day if Talk TV is here at the moment.

It's possible that it will level offered 200000 for peers and quite a lot lower for the other shows.

Order Sky News had a program that GMTV so what do you make of talk TVs launch personally, so I haven't watched it and they had amazing for tea, and it's a big funfair and it sounds like a great coup but in the end.

It's not really special as he hasn't really said you wouldn't think it was going to say so I don't know if it's going to be very interesting I think on this very podcast some time ago.

I said that I thought the talk radios TV presentation with Julia hartley-brewer in the morning which a friend of mine is addicted to you really smart compared to say GB news and I think that somebody must have been listening to me and decide to do the top well.

Wondering I would like to say about the ratings you really need a PhD to understand TV ratings very complicated when I was running UK living I was addicted to the ratings.

I was hanging off the printer in the morning.

I could tell you when all of you and Maureen went to the caravan.

Just been looking at the racing and to say that TV is doing better than sky news on BBC News is comparing different things are prime show is at 8 when there's no other news outlet doing a private show so you can't really say it's doing that particular show on that particular day it had more audience but you really got to look at the whole context of ratings and related stories next Radio 1 DJ current capital Xtra DJ Tim Westwood has been accused of sexual misconduct by multiple women of colour on Wednesday Westwood step down from his show on capital Xtra

Stirred a lot of discuss the right continuing sexism and misogyny in the media.

What's your reaction? Is it still too difficult for women to come forward when they're their victims of inappropriate conduct if you want to know how it is for women in media.

Have a look at the expert women's site that we do from City University it's very difficult for women it's difficult whilst we live in a society which still Associates authority with men and you can see that with for example the pandemic coverage and to some extent the Ukraine walk original absolutely wonderful female reporters but biologics a male-dominated story and there is always this feeling in the crisis that men have got the authority and it's the male voice that is just a truism and so it's difficult for women to figures anyway, and then when they do their subject to a great deal more unpleasant this generally.

What's the society and also you can do things that Simon the face of it to make a long long time for it to become established in between the DNA be upfront in positions of authority giving their opinion being on show in away when they're not being there as a result of male action.

It is quite difficult for a lot of people to take and it's not the whale on people have been brought up.

So it's stuff and that is just a truth gym the Guardian break this story alongside the BBC but it's coming allegations over 20-years.

How is the how is it folded and why is it taking so long? It's very hard to get these stories published and the takes a lot of care and it takes a lot of bravery on the individuals who are willing to come forward and speak and my colleague Lexy topping work.

People at the BBC has spent a lot of time working on this and the story is not easy to publish legally and you need to have a bit of a backbone to do them.

I remember looking at some locations on a letter level a couple of years ago and talking to Global at the time about it and they did not respond in the same way, but we did not have the same testimony at the time that is basically it comes down to have the individuals making allegations got the bravery to come forward.

I think there's a lot of questions for Global on this and how they handle it because so global capital Xtra where he broadcasts at the moment right and he joined them with almost a decade ago after leaving Radio One global had allegations put them in 2020 and at the time essentially I think felt that there wasn't substantive claims to investigate and clearly he stayed on there any chat that was internal we don't know about but now the day.

The publication of the Guardian BBC investigation he was off air within 24-hours.

It is an industry that has unequal power structures and there are many issues around Talent is able to do and whether managers know or are able to exert any control over that there are a lot of questions and I don't think we've had the end of this one is and I don't know the situation capital Xtra yeah.

He's there probably through 4 hours a week during his weekly show has been there local staff complaints for it.

Obviously there are rumours and then ask this a bring it to the for a hard position to make a proactive statement or challenge him before these things come to the for you.

Is it difficult to be able to do that yes, management is hard and I add someone reports in the media industry.

All we can do is try and look into claims and then put them to the representatives for the p.

When looking at there is a long-running theme now that we seen over many years of how power works in the media and any organisation isn't aware of her and not considering that probably in a bad place you end up with a lot of scrutiny of the BBC which is an enormously flood institution Tim Davie director-general said he wants to emphasise whistleblowing and make it easier for people to come for it, but it is still takes out where essentially favours and career progression often depend on winning the approval of Eva Talent or senior managers to take a risk with your career of making complain about someone in a more senior position to you especially if you're a very young person trying to get into the industry often backlash.

We due to the expert women project we can become quite difficult to the results show that it is trying to get women on the shelf for 20-minutes time to spare to come on my children talk about bloody Museum and she said no because women quite enjoyed being ass but in the end.

It's really difficult to make the commitment to do it.

This is all very subtle and difficult I think it's attitudinal and I don't know where the attitudinal change.

It's good that we've got more legislation.

It's good that we've got more awareness sometimes that can cause a backlash sometimes I can be counterproductive you have to lock with that but maybe it won't talk about that kind of power relationship the other story but been at the four is around the Mail on Sunday David Dillon who's there has refused to meet The Commons speaker Lindsay Hoyle to explain his papers coverage of Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner this is the source of the Basic Instinct story that they ran.

Obviously everyone's being sectors in inappropriate and it's been over 5 and half 13 plates to ipso the regulator I saw that the refusal to meet is that I just kind of CPR of them just wanting to stem this story and play the game a little bit more when I see you my inbox the reports from around the world on Trust friedan on journalist taking some facing down governments on being persecuted for doing their jobs, and I essentially realise that the press freedom battle in the UK that has made the front pages is the right to soil herself in public over publishing a sex story really quite quite low rent.

I think it's a very Daily Mail attitude a slightly Millwall 1 pizzas and we don't care that Newsroom has and has always had but I used to be a political correspondent.

I worked in the lobby and Ava

Institution has changed a bit in recent years with more women going in it remains a very blokey very my clothes shop environment.

I think when people under how we get a lot of the political journalism that we do understanding the way that the Westminster lobby system which is the group of political journalist who have passes to access Parliament works reveals an awful.

Lot about why we get the news that we do in this country the person who made that comment to the journalist knows that they won't be out of the genus between politicians and the people who cover politicians in this country is way closer than people even realise you just need to go around the bars of parliament and evening and I've seen it talk about being filmed about it being a big push for trying to take it away from the champions that you reference there should they said week in the lobby system? Would that be better put on television put the prime minister's spokesman Hotel

I think putting lobby briefings on television being fantastic both for transparency of government and for transparency of journalism and showing the questions the approach and how you get those quotes coming out.

I just think the accountability would have been brilliant and he would be an absolutely terrible for the existing world of political journalism and the government that's why it's not happening because it would have exploded both of them you would have seen the lack of diversity in the lobby and the level of questioning that went on and you divorce OCD floundering and week's answers that are often provided by the Downing Street spokesperson.

I've sat I'm not even sure if I'm allowed to tell you this but the lobby briefings at the moment, so it's Garrett at the top of a tower in the House OF Parliament in for several years.

You know you trips up there for certain time and the journalist would sit down and then a couple of Downing Street officials would walk in.

Finder of notes you play whack-a-mole you go does the Prime Minister have a comment on this and the spokesperson for flixborough page in the binder and then read out a pre-prepared Answer lyrics on tin of harming another country or or benefits policy or something controversial that happened in the football last night.

They have a pre-prepared answer it if you hit it then you get a quote if you don't hit it just get we'd like to get back to you on that it's a bad way of making the news and yes, it's survive because it is a sort of mutual dependency in it because there's so many people compete in the collection use it is ends up feeding on on gossip favours and then there's that undoubted element of the political allegiance of the outlet this doing the reporting what response would you like to see from the mail and Parliament

To come and see him if you actually look at the role of the speaker relation to the media.

It's very nuanced the basically the world the speakers to make sure that the House of Commons is treated with respect and presents itself respectively.

That's the job and the Mail on Sunday article which is it really does make the House of Commons look disgusting so I can see that you would think what can I do about that you went wrong if I might be so Bold as to say to ask David Dylan's come and see because he's got a perfectly good head of the lobby in Jason Grove who is in fun at Daily Mail political reporter and that would be the right who is the head of the press gallery because Caroline nokes who's the chair of the women and equalities committee who is an extremely formidable character and said that then.

Trespass should be revoked has got to do something and not sure who's the person that can give up press buttons and somebody is certainly the person who is responsible for the image of the House of Commons and so he did what he thought was the right thing to do which was to have a meeting gagging anyone at that point you was going to have a meeting about the way that this particular article appeared and the Motives behind it and it wasn't the best way to treat blah blah.

I don't think that you can't help laughing at the marvellous opportunity.

This is rubbish.

I think what are the expert women project which service number of women who are featured in the news.

How's things looking in terms of gender representation a lot of work on this.

Unlock more women were interviewed as a result we know that we made the difference because it is actually said so and it was really quite funny Everton player Channel 4 figures in the pandemic.

It wasn't the first time I actually tried to grave the experts and you found the big beast experts for men and the care home manager more my ex but still people talking about women and we can't forget this campaign has to go on the reality of it is that women are still not in the same platform not giving this is not giving the same respect and the Angela Rayner story really does that up.

Keep up with what you can do.

The expert women Project website if you want to know what it's really like for women getting involved in media the members of the public being interviewed on that's got everything you need to know and it really does the difficulty that this week.

You might have heard the news that Twitter had a new owner willing 6-months Twitter employees journalists and users are all in one exactly Elon musk's by out with me in for the social Media platform.

I spoke to journalist James Ball to unpack my change and why did Dill is staring a discussion about free speech.

I think there's anxiety Twitter it is fast smaller than even networks.

We don't really talk about anymore.

You know Snapchat is much bigger than Twitter tiktok about 4 times its size, but Twitter is the news social network it is the most current it is the most informative and even if you're not sort of someone.

Right, stop Twitter beef orders online culture, it is a genuinely useful these Gathering thing.

You know I think a lot of us have it up instead of having news wires the anxiety of losing.

What's become for a lot of report is a source of useful default daily tool now for both of the decade that sense of place.

Just going to turn into a lovely day for chub on a larger scale and people say that to happen.

My favourite is millionaires and billionaires about media since forever social media sites used to be how you got your billions.

They've now joined old Media in what you buy with them once you've got them.

There are lots of big ones as one that wants to be big which is truthsocial potentially Donald Trump's through social I mean all of the right wing social network pop-ups and get hurt.

Looks like that.

We haven't done that well, because there's no one to jump on for the kind of the right wing voter you've been sentenced their houses everybody on it which makes it more interesting you need people to disagree with what we want when we go on Twitter if it is sometimes to go who's the main character today? What's funny out there you want interaction with strangers and as you say if you like being edgy in being trolley shunt so winding people up.

It's no fun at all.

There's no one to wind up.

Just everybody agreeing with you.

Really quickly gets dull and so one of the things that's quite interesting about to socialist Trump's not posted it launched which when you're supposed to be the big draw is a bit of a problem you clearly it's not enough time for him because it's not a big enough so the stage.

A big sense Twitter might allow trump and some of the alt-right figures back.

Why would you sort of want to invest in or put a lot of money in a right wing social networking till see how this works out but people are probably thinking well must could just ignore all of the regulators and all of the law I can't because lending to it and it's going to struggle to service its debt each year you know it's going to be data revenue starts getting hundreds of millions in time is the year as well that needs to be found and that would need to be tackled you know there's only so far must can push it I think what he'll do is focus on symbolic stuff sits on a few day for a red meat his followers.

I don't think the practise of the cycle changed that much.

What are regulation existing and probably arriving soon and it's going to make it difficult I mean sometimes you hear him speak and it's like if you wanted super free speech just buy for chatting be much cheaper than spending 44000000000 on on Twitter I actually exactly that earlier this week.

You know does seem to be that that's what he wants but that actually only 200000 people a day with the online safety Bill and also means that Twitter would be liable for stopping all-seeing harmful, but legal speech.

I mean it's the most snowflake you could possibly imagine and yeah, it's been passed by a cultural Govan

Once it comes to the internet turns off some Minister's brains and they stop seeing any inconsistencies in their ideology but can you imagine Elon Musk being told that duty of care? Are you have to define harmful speech, but then have Ofcom agree.

It's and then keep it off there.

You know him but I would love to see you pop up a dcms select committee and all the MPs explaining his rules and how are you in forces? But that would definitely box office lastly.

Do you think Elon Musk is going to make it through these 6-months and have his paws on Twitter at the end of the year.

So I'd like this magic phase where ostensibly Twitter share price should be exactly what mosque is paying for it.

This is a science donedeal ostensibly at 54.

Share at the moment Twitter try to get about 4978 which I think means people think there's a pretty significant level of doubt.

I think people record.

It's probably likely than not but nowhere near 100-percent so I'll go with the market and say I reckon it's about a 70% chance it happens.

That's a good guess.

I'm more of a chat and we went into a lot of detail and lots of different Twitter related things if you are a subscriber to our patreon if you're not it's really easy to do just go to patreon.com Leopold patron.com / mediapad you get the Deep dives every week and all of the archives if you sign up now and have loads of listening.

Celebrate summer with Mamma Mia take a trip down the aisle with this lovely funny feel-good all around the world and that is on stage in London that sells sunniest musical Mamma Mia at the Novello Theatre you already know you get a love it going to take it back to the original dinner party is going to be warm.

It's going to be welcome in we're gonna go deep.

We're gonna cry.

Are you gonna meet people really where they live in their heart and August to bring someone in the daylight whatever you get your podcasts.

ACAS is a home of podcasting including such shows as grown up stories and right now.

Two of the media podcast Lisa disappeared but don't worry gyms here to talk more stories and in other news about things people are interested in or not interested in the BBC have done experiment depriving 80 homes of all BBC news for 9 Days they found the sceptical viewers were more willing to pay the charges result of the experience 70% of those who initially said they'd rather do without the BBC changed their minds good thing for the BBC to do to try and show consumers what there be missing the BBC's not there the real thing with the BBC licence fee is everyone thinks as a television licence fee and as television declines is very very hard to convince people that they should pay it.

I don't watch any live television other than the orbit of news channel and sometimes a bit of sport and I know it.

Please for the BBC website I know it pays for me to listen to Radio York commentaries of York city, which god knows no commercial provider would bother with I still sort of slightly feel that well telly licence and that's what shows up in this research.

Does the people feel that well, I don't really see match on BBC One this day sure I watch iPlayer but it's different.

I always think we're moving away from the licence plate be quite a good thing for the BBC and they shouldn't Bray sit and talk about the other options because the outdated idea that it's just about the TV you can't read all the infographics you want about you get this for £13, but people just don't feel like that.

They feel well.

I'm paying all this for TV and then the rest of the stuff is provided from the ether mysteriously, I don't really know but I don't really think about it it online it's free.

It Feels To Me Not a crazy sort of anti BBC position to take to say that the licence fee is clearly an outdated.

We're doing it because most the rest of the world is thinking the same as I heard it's quite a good one though.

Difficult is actually putting it out on council tax because council tax is partly driven by the size of your house and therefore you would pay a different amount based on nationally how rich you are the government would hate to reconnect something that way you write BBC DG talking this week.

There are more cuts coming to the BBC signal where they're coming from it sounds to me as I Tim Davies planning to do a load of cuts but also trying to avoid people like me writing headlines about closing channels and then he waits do that is not close the channel.

Just sort of quietly remove lots of the context.

So you know rather than have the disastrous battle to close 6 Music which he oversaw and failed with which had the unintended effect of its listenership 10 years ago when this is for people don't remember when Davy ran radio in about 2010 at the order came down.

We need to make cuts closed 6 Music every single graphic designer in bright.

Got together and started a petition and successfully saved the station.

It's audience figures doubled and now it's sort of a resounding success and he couldn't dare to cut he knows how difficult it is to take things away, so where it sounds like this is a subtle thing to do is to kill by stealth and then try and reallocate what remains elsewhere to sort of salami slicing again aren't women that we've done last time there's no there's no more salami left this life without each other way home sausages, but has difficult to do isn't it when you're really faced with it.

I think the horribly send you a metaphor we might be getting rid of the sausage, but leaving the sausage skin dangling to convince people that hasn't happens you might still have the thing that is broadcasting on and linear TV or radio but it just might not have an awful lot on it and it's nothing you said about funding the BBC through council tax because of course thumbs of radio history will know that the only BBC stations are often collaborations with local councils the public good.

I think it was Teesside or Cleveland at the time worked on the early radio Tees up there and there was a lot of collaboration as that there was a public good to bring information you people and not completely crazy to go back down that route.

Ok.

I think we've just got enough time for you to try and win this on your own disappointing if you lost the quiz when you're the only player today.

We're going to be playing making waves.

I'm going to give you 3 audio stories and you could have with a true or false true false true or false.

That's it so question number one after the Joe Rogan scandal spotify's latest subscriber numbers have dropped you off.

I think it's false really should know this it is false despite delete Spotify #trending in January in the last cause.

It's monthly averages of 8 groups of 412 million people at a 90% increase and premium.

Neighbours are up by 15% 282 million.

I'm just going to mention one senior Media executive who told me proudly about how they boycotted Spotify after that and then we could you sent me a link on Spotify so I have to pick that up also.

I think I was on something and he said that he had something like 2 million subscribers Cazorla Ferrari just loads of the bedroom light the idea of of tuning in a minute.

No such thing as bad publicity absolutely is closing true or false.

No because that would feel like a big thing that I should definitely know about what they are closing there.

Is there app they had their own podcast listening app for 8 years, but they decided to turn that off and concentrate on other things which made me Sally had the right thing to do is running your own app.

It's a big old bit of hassle then there's better ones out there absolutely battle that place like the BBC have to try and make people use them.

You can have it for a data and keep things within their own wall garden.

It just drives consumers nuts because they just want to get it through the Apple podcast app or whatever they use a person that I use up Spotify for all my podcast.

I'm sort of Daniel extreme of the one person you'll actually does that you've moved across and finally number 3 BBC Radio 4.

Extra is launching the show will be scripted B is that true or false that sounds like the sort of cost-cutting measures Tim Davie one.

So yes, that's true.

That is partly true.

They going to be partly scripted by listeners.

This is DMS are open NE6 Park comedy series that will feature and pictures of sketches one-liners and voice notes written by listeners into that I can feel most comedy panel shows the basic lifted from Twitter anyway.

Given.

Have you watched the end of the week? They seem to have all the jokes that people like I follow when making on the Monday and Tuesday anyway so maybe just cut out the Middleman list the content directly it sounds.

Fisherman pay a comedian to read it out a few of these over the years.

This is the latest one.

I know that Jon Holmes the skewer takes suggestions.

They pay for like suggested actually open access and you can get your material on.

It's not entire Walled Garden I like the idea of it being one of those you know you've been framed the send your typing for £250 50 quid from Jeremy Beadle yeah exactly 250 quid.

Are you probably be lucky to get that from the BBC for a comedy show you no send your taper and then we'll £2.50 in a thank you from Tim Davie yes, which means you are the winner of the quiz 303.

How can people keep track of your work? What's the best way? They can subscribe to the wonderful Guardian app which has some excellent content and also the Old Media story from me and I'm on Twitter at Jim Waterson brilliant.

Thanks.

Jim thank you very much.

And if you are enjoying the show why not consider becoming a patron of it just signed up for patreon.com / Media pod it means your help us continue to cover the media news each week and next to groin archive of bonus content for recording podcasts and video interviews change the code Media pod when you're at riverside.fm out of course if you haven't already subscribed or follow the show in your podcast app of choice beautiful podcast Spotify Google podcast then do do that and then you get the latest episode every Friday it straight away in the producer was Phoebe Adler Ryan with support from Knaphill it was a rethink audio production and we'll see you next.

Celebrate summer with Mamma Mia take a trip with this funny feeling it's all around the world and then on stage in London featuring the timer songs as ABBA it's the world's funniest musical Mamma Mia at the Novello Theatre you already know you love it.

Great day and she likes subway nice song please with a thin layer of tomatoes.

No overlap up to the sandwich artist if you can't talk to noticed you can you trust I'm going to order the Tex-Mex enough the series menu that's Trust create your own or choose a new series menu to Subway which way you I never like the analogy of being this goes down never liked it.

I will come home and I will see all my people my people live here.

I'm over to New York and when I love the world when I came home my people were still here.

My family is here.

So we can talk about a city like it's disappeared.

My name is Jessica Karen Moore this is in a section of the trait resilience and herself in the heart of the Father show on Apple podcasts Spotify or wherever you find great stories.