Read this: Taming the Tech Giants How To Win Awards

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I walk into the media podcast I'm magic on the show today the latest first of the online safety bill been revealed will discuss Nadine dorries update and means for press freedom and the British podcast Awards will find out which Media favourites was saying a fond farewell.

That's all coming up in this edition of the media podcast in this week's news Russia state TVs crumbling from within with a plethora of staff resignations, but one woman in particular.

Turn off she can take over captured the hearts of you as with extraordinary anti-war protest and a handmade sign someone else were access to reset Chris cuomo is seeking 125 $1000000 from CNN over alleged wrongful termination after helping his brother former New York mayor Andrew cuomo respond to sexual harassment allegations at Pinewood Studios on the Richard Attenborough stage this week during the filming of the new Snow White film The luckily everyone was safe and sound is filming haven't started yet.

Need to talk to some of the week's Media head of R&D 7 trick to eat a poison apple.

It's x radio presenter person who is currently on a stand up tour and times columnist Matt Chorley hi Matt the hi mate.

How you doing? I'm good I'm good that you haven't ever eaten a poison apple that is correct right.

No, I'm not going to comment on my living arrangements excellent a huge moment this week with nazanin, zaghari-ratcliffe.

And then you finally return to the UK brother-in-law on your program.

Just as kind of the story broke this taken ages to sort out isn't it? It's one of those stories as well.

It should have taken 6 years and the last at the very end it all happened.

So quickly we just just just after 10 the new starter coming through the perhaps.

They were on the way to the airport and the basic during the course of the show the sort of tiny granules that is the perfect of breaking news and information on coming through tulip Siddiq Natalie's local MP what sort of tweeting updates we were speaking to members of the family.

Yeah and actually is a classic example of always save your number because last in November in which was on hunger strike.

I don't have spoke to him, but I've got chatting to Lymm who like you said was his his sister's husband and got his number so I just say

And so is soon as the news broke the first thing I did was called called limb during her a news breaking just said can you come on and yeah, so it's a good always save every number when you're going to need it is the marvellous professor Liz how old is a new murder mystery book this week.

I love the fact that the protagonist to be a podcast producer and hopefully it all yet.

What was the book about the series of murder mysteries that I started writing about 10 years ago and cosy mysteries, which is quite funny really but people like murder mysteries because in the end right prevails and normality is there again so that's what they like about the wizard these things turn up to the protagonist.

She's called Suzi Spencer and she started out as a reality TV producer.

My own career but now she's going in for podcast in her localities in the next one.

They're going to find a body in a wheelie bin what she's doing the podcast.

I just want to ask is this the life you always is the lead well onto the story shaking up the industry this week the EU commissions opened a formal investigations.

Look at where the Google a meta have competition rules with their online advertising services in their sites what in trouble now.

I think I think essentially politicians have been on a very long journey.

There was a time when politicians were very frightened about saying anything about tech companies less.

They look like.

Play with dad dancing with the the guys in skinny jeans and Space Hoppers and all that and the number of flopped to Silicon Valley hoping that a bit of that all Californian Stardust with rub off on them and the internet of these guys were going to solve all of our problems.

I think we've been on a very long journey now to the point where there is a recognition actually they need to be like every other Industries that need to be checks and balances and needs to be control on them regulation of one sort or another I do think that is a Potterton coming to this issue now the tickly around advertising and the the ability of publishers to make a living it is quite late in the day for the time in various publishers of local papers and a national parks have really struggling various times because all of the so much of the advertising revenue was going.

To Google and Facebook so I mean, it's a good thing that they're looking at it now.

I just sort of good possibly rather.

They done it a few years ago Facebook Facebook the preferential ad rates for a green not to compete with Google and build like their own arrival system use a publishers a kind of scrap around 4 pennies as well although scooping up the pounds and mean for them at the top to go and even with all of that.

Let's do it.

Let's do a side deal.

I mean that's pretty is pretty harsh.

Isn't it? And I think it's also slightly points of the culture of they still think in many ways that the Plucky upstarts standing up to the big old boys and that's not the case anymore.

You know they are some of the biggest not just players in the media, but just biggest businesses on the planet, but they still have this slight idea that the rules don't apply to them and they

Can you know they need to cut corners and do deals because they need to stand up to the other you know while actually that the that the people that think they're in competition with the struggling to survive that was a metal was fine 90 million dollars this week for thanks prevent data breaches on Facebook back in 2018 with all this investigation cases that they lose pretty regularly around data breaches something that's effective at keeping the Tech Giants in line in the same room posting of yes, I'm not sure I'm tired with my don't know exactly what it's getting up and I don't think it's that they think that I think they just crazy about the amount of power that they can accumulate I hate but they just go on and on Gathering more power more money in this within controlled way.

It's just something to US Enterprise and entrepreneurial Society and absolutely has been in the past ever standing up to them because he wouldn't look cool.

Did you look at the stories that we're looking at today all of them are about publishing in almost all about content provision and the power that comes with content revision and we are we have got to face the fact that these people have got on presidential power and that needs to be checked and it's very tough on government and you get what looks like almost Petty irritation or or it as of a small War by the EU taking on the text but I really do believe someone's got to do it and this is the beginning of its you look at this.

It's called Jedi blue and even the terminology.

They're using always so we're so cool parking back to the image conscious at the

Time is it gonna rain all this money calculation of Power which I find deeply disturbing culture secretary in Nadine dorries who revealed the latest version of the online safety bill which I was looking up and it says it's designed to protect children tackle illegal activity and uphold their stated terms and conditions important to get the T's and C's in there seems to be a bit of a capsule for any worries about the internet has gone like completely the other direction and Liddington up at Microsoft this week asking when it would get rid of its algorithms which I'm not entirely sure is what you want to hear from from your culture taxis in charge of technology.

I got to stop you know there.

Is this let's get Nadine dorries use thick attitude about their own dinner.

She's quite a shock.

She's a scouse woman that writes novel so I'm bound to like around the service anyway, but I do think that's making fun of it isn't really very helpful.

I have looked into this billy to some extent of her lots of things to make fun of her and she doesn't always seem particularly her brief.

I'm not sure you should come and see my stand-up show in that case.

It's just part of the problem is maybe she hasn't been in the job hugely long and this is an enormous piece of work and actually I think.

Matt you're right this to come up but you know in Westminster today Christmas tree, bill where anyone can come along and hang their bauble on it and it's you know what to do about this thing on.

It's all about that thing some of it's a bit contradictory creating still loopholes have doubts about whether some of it is I think everyone almost universally supports the Broad intention of trying to improve safety and the online but how do you do that when you've got some sit down one in black and white the lord that's good.

That's a big question whether or not enough work has been done that to make it make it do the thing that Madine and the rest of them wanted to know when your own newspaper in the times of the really good reading article yesterday about this nip it is going in the right direction and it is doing the right thing it may well have to be revised the law is not ever complete time on you can revise the law and you can work from something like this bill.

It is great that they're getting first far.

It's really important in terms of things have happened to young people who self-harm.

Suicide the coroner's court being delayed forever because they can't get the material out of metal and so on and so we've got to start with this.

We got to start somewhere.

Just Nadine dorries in a crazy person on the Christmas tree baubles role-play to the sort of marking your own homework singer of The Giant tech people that Baby Come the senses and that's also terrified, but you've got to start somewhere and this is the place to start I think you and I think actually but that's somewhere that they start this is the most significant thing about the bill is it's a major piece of legislation regulating tech firms and that crosses the river couldn't and

What comes next if there is a loophole or you know it because text basically develops faster than legislation does there will be other things that come along with this doesn't cover but they've crossed the line now.

They're that the willingness of Westminster politicians to do this is probably the most significant part of the other than it has in the past as it's going to touch it on things legal but harmful to the content such as exposure to self-harm harassment eating disorders those sorts of things but there is a concern as it could result in some legit censorship of the press as well.

Whether it gets caught up in in tech companies removing things match of the press be worried or are they just having a moan if difficult because it has the word could in your question is doing a lot of heavy lifting and you know in the bill will have to go through Parliament and it may be tweaked and amended.

And to some extent it will be tested probably in court.

That's the the big question is that is is there something which is in the bill designed to stop people sharing self-harm videos on Instagram could somehow that we used to stop magazine or website publishing.

That's the what is a line that the supposed to start in talk about causing harm intending harm.

The risk of they are in the eye of the beholder is made difficult thing to sort of nail down in in law as well.

Yeah, I mean there's a question that if some if a newspaper published a story about self-harm it could get the and then put Twitter that link and that story could be removed from social media because it hits the the rules about about promoting self harm.

An educators destination of deposition which it does seem very credible this bill.

I'm just again reading disabilities exempt from regulation online content from recognised Media can be said you're already say a public service broadcaster, or you have an Ofcom licence and the online companies then repeat material that you said then you are protected from this Bill because you're already an established media company so freedom of the press it actually I'm trying to court cases in the things that come up but there is no attempt in this bill to muffle the

Not like the police bill.

Everyone was terrified that you wouldn't be able to go out for a test to get outside your kids school.

It's not like that.

I think it's a much more sensible bill is not with a beauty popular traditional mainstream Media TV radio newspapers websites are incredibly responsible these days particularly with things like walking on suicide often including details of the Samaritans and I think you know that's not probably not always been the case you never go back in the past and put it into the tabloid end, but these days which US reporting and so on for change the attitude.

Happened so we'll see what baubles finally stay on the Christmas tree in the coming weeks and this week.

Are you a budding podcast about the British podcast Awards is currently open for entries I spoke to season judge.

The Illusionist creator Helen zaltzman and previous of water in a rake and ramen to talk about what it takes to put together an award-winning.

I want to hear some personality because I think no matter what a podcast about the listeners are gravitating towards it because they like the people on it or because they want to be in the mood for some shows don't have like a regular host or something but people are going for a particular emotional state so want to feel that and I want to know what the purposes of the show show doesn't have to be my boo fundamental importance if the purposes to be like in funny.

I need to know what that is like.

It important to me as a judge.

Not to be like is this show for me because most shouldn't be for me.

I'm one person, but I'm just looking to see if it fulfils what it's purporting to be and whether it's making good the listeners time and last year event which was the big winner that came off on one of my passwords, and it really stood out to me because the presenter on that episode was so interesting to listen to it was doing interviews interviews brilliant and the purpose of the show and the specific episode of been clearly explained so I thought this is a really good show that is also doing something and it's really fulfilling its own purpose well, but I think like sound designed to me of secondary importance to what the content is because lots of shows don't necessarily need design and I think sound design that is great with block content is not going to be a winner for me.

Where is something that has a background design is not ideal but if the contents interest.

Calendar talk about can I come 10 and striking cereal you were the British with brown girls do it too when you got a blank piece of paper.

Where do when you think one of the things that you do have to do when putting together your entry is almost think about what your podcast is about and why you're podcast is important in why you're doing your podcast you should know what the USP of your podcast is so, what are you doing that other people are necessarily doing you have to highlight that in your entry with Bangles do it to it was quite easy I think because there are many podcast of brown Asian women talking about their sex lives to the extent that those girls in the podcast ear popping Ribena Andrea so that was the USP and I made sure that was in there in my entry in the

So when I was constructing the podcast and made sure that you knew that they were brown girls doing this podcast without actually saying we are brown people that was their content and so when it came to putting together the entry.

I knew that existed somewhere in the intro to my podcasts.

I you know that that was handy.

I could come out and put it in there so deliver your USP in the entry if you can the other thing is when you're making a podcast saving podcast falling to genres, so when you're making your podcasts.

You should be delivering on the genre expectations of that podcast so try and include some of those things in your clips.

So if you're meant to be a funny podcast then you know make sure you've got funny bits in your podcast but the most important thing I felt when I was putting together.

My entries was delivering on emotion and that's when you're making your podcast you should be delivering emotions or sorry evoking emotion and so for the brand audit to podcast funny was important to so definitely have a funny clip in there, but also there were moments of sadness and put in a clip that you know was sad there was moments of regret that the girls talked about so I put the that in there were happy moments as well, so try and deliver on emotion cos I think Helen talked about how she wants to see or hear people in the entry.

I think perhaps that's the way you do it by kind of people's emotions and that entry also make sure in each clip.

You're doing a different thing so if you've done the funny beer then you don't necessarily have to do.

Another funny bit go with a different emotion or try and show something else in your other clips so in the entries that I put together regret was in there.

There was a bit of implementing.

There is one of the clips did certain jobs, how much about I'm going to find a clip but does that and how much was have gone to clips actually these clips do this job which way did I went through and I found all the bits that I thought were great first.

I think I can pass about 15 good bits which were each other about 506 minutes long and then it's a job of telling them down to are they will doing different things and you know I do that within 3 minutes or so or to 1/2 minutes per clip something like that.

I don't remember exactly so you've got a whistle down the size of that as well and then it's really important.

I want to listen to it because often after you've edited it.

It doesn't necessarily say the same thing that you thought it did at the start so does it still contain that element that made you pick it up in the first place, but if you have somebody please prepare to listen to it, then that's great.

If you don't do it yourself does it still say the same thing I wanted to to at the start and do that with your podcast generally.

Are you saying the things that you wanted to say is it as great as it is in your ears as it was in your head when you first in visited it.

They're all good tips on Twitter when people take the same if you do a show weekend weekend.

So you got to go to the episodes to try and listen to they asked the listeners.

What struck them good bits in their heads off remembers and then you'll see the tweets come back that could be quite a good way of doing it to what did you just tell someone so I had this thing on podcast.

thank you, Helen and Brian if you want to listen to all of our top tips and my answers to commonly asked about the award you can hear it on our extended version at for our patreon subscribers, so one at become one of those just go to patreon.com / mediapad wake listen to that and all previous longer form interviews celebrate summer with Mum take a trip down the aisle with this lovely funny feel-good all around the world began featuring the timer songs of ABBA

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I've still got a map with me to cover this week's news in brief now last week Amazon and he was going to launch a new app called a that will give you a to be a DJ of your own live radio shows now man.

You've been given your own radio show to be a DJ not much music having to play on on times radio.

Do you need everyone should be a DJ do you think this is good news.

You'll be surprised.

How much music I managed to play on the show if I'm almost every feature has some sort of music called attachment, but I've got a very interesting ask about this and email all about radio.

I can't remember who writes it, but it was very interesting that what you wrote about the launch of of

What the main thing I took away from it? Was you mentioned Clubhouse which I completely forgot about that.

We did a whole feature on the radio last time we set up a boom we got some MPs and we talked about the way that this could change Politics of course it hasn't changed, but it it's just sort of disappears at the Twitter spaces.

Things does seem to be from what I can see if some problem.

I've got other publishers seem to be using it quite smart way and getting 700 people talking about the bank interest rate rise and that's what they but I think the key think they are expert people you know it's all the difference between a successful podcast unsuccessful on a load of people sit around talking nonsense struggle to find a an audience unless those people are you put your needs? You need contents and I know for me to feel 3 hours everyday content is really hot and new and original and interesting and innovative content Israel

So, I'm not just thought that someone talking nonsense between there their favourite songs will let me do it and I thought we'd interesting is just the reason radio is great because it's everywhere it's in your car is in your kitchen.

You just click it on and the idea of jumping around between platforms and apps and what do I want to listen to I think it's just becomes really cos it does it doesn't feel like what radio is supposed to be and if I get if I'm going on an app.

Why would my open a podcast app and listen to a poppy produced? You know piece of content rather than someone about laziness a big question about and democratisation of the media sometimes and there are still kind of Gatekeepers to get on.

I mean this doesn't have anybody with the new amp app to create a show I was a bit tough on it in the newsletter.

I wrote this week as that was referring to but do you think do you think it is important to find ways that the people can access.

Or is it just using those people to try and try and get downloads Radio Nan's birthday songs to me a favourite radio station for your family? Why not? He doesn't have to be outside facing getting a big audience type of radio you can house radio really nice.

I'm very very very difficult to say any form of explosion.

That's why local radio is such an amazing thing and then I work for Sky which whatever anybody says really did open up the media again then.

That I do you know because my books selling really well on it because it's really really good take books that were written by the cousin's friend from Oxbridge that's gone and I really do like the side of it and there's nothing to lose really doesn't work.

You know cut side out of a cardboard box in the cinemas on telly and record things on cassettes and maybe this is just a 21st century version of that is a way of trying out stuff.

I have is particularly in radio if you listen to this you might know that I have a radio background is that there's always an assumption that radiates need to do and procedures protect companies in loads of the samples over the years of people called launching things which will replace radio and radio that complicated understanding you listen about making something pretty decent for them to focus on the listener and no one in the Tech industry ever asked anybody in the radio Centre and who is an expert to help them.

They could deliver pretty good pretty good product, but I think a lot of it comes from being a listener you heard.

What's the radio in your life, then you think you know how to run a radio station I mean that when you when you started your your time radio show broadcasting before is it harder or easier than you thought it would.

I would say harder but more fun those two things together you see what I done before was put the red box podcast to do with the time that is that what they want to be on on the station.

I haven't done any live hosting at all presenting and actually spent a lot of time before we learnt that do it before you just talking about about talking to other people in radio weather is the only one I can find who I knew who would tell me about it turned out that you'll have completely different ways of working and at the end.

You have to start your own way and all that but yeah, I think the the the how you put a show together the structure of you know it takes a while to find my voice and data turned up my voice is just exactly the same as it is often because it's quite difficult to have a keeper persona 3 hours a day but also the content is key.

As Charming in fascinating as I might be I can't keep that up for 3 hours.

You need interesting people to talk to you didn't receive stuff to talk about you need to build up.

That's reality know that and I think you could put you right that the Tech firms that focus on the platform not the content.

It's like it is like a newspaper going on about how they changed the paper.

It's printed that's fine, but it is the stuff.

I've read it any good and I think that's been the the keys, but I don't have loved loved being on the radio and actually being somewhere new where nobody says don't know we don't do it like that.

So like one of the things to do on a Wednesday pmq, APM to use unpacked and we pause it live as we go along to explain just in case summary question but it's not really answered that as well actually what he was referring to is it to try and you know and actually I think my hunch is he tried to do that don't do that.

Just play it out and then we analysed after.

Are you having that freedom decide what I'm going to do this with you.

No have been has been that's been the most fun part, but yeah definitely harder than I thought it was lying in bed as a teenager listening to Chris Moyles turns out.

It's quite difficult over your time.

I think was television presenters.

There is a sort of characteristic that they have which is inability to somehow distance himself from the fear of the camera and relate to the camera is it to person and I think the presenters of would be present has failed overreacting the camera and thinking you really got to work at this and it's that's slightly late back.

Slightly just like me quiet personalities of camera and they're not the great.

And very very successful ones that I have no delightful very quiet off camera in a way that more extrovert people who would twinkle off camera couldn't just looked with radio.

I think there is a single man on radio.

You know why so many men on radio because the sound of your voice I think that's a bit to get a lot of men on radio and some of them crash and burn the ones that succeeded the 122 well-informed.

I mean James and Brian and extremely form.

They can always come back at the listener was really information and said there's a proper dialogue.

I don't like this sort of making fun of the taxi driver that.

When you get an intelligent dialogue between the centre and the public kids that's really beautiful very good well.

Let's see how much stuff you both know as we turn to this week, so needy quiz which is entitled fond farewells.

I'll provide three headlines were there's been rumours that name goodbye to a shower products you just tell me it's your fault.

It's very this week.

We're looking for true or false three rounds buzzing with your name if you know the answer so Matt will say Matt and Google say let's play funfair Wells ok Twitter saying goodbye to its timeline algorithm.

Is that true or false true is it true that case why are you being wrong to say it's true because

The social Media platform and still be introducing a new timeline algorithm to push users to view the greatest weeks before the latest Tweets however due to use it out.

It's been rolled back.

So they won't be saying about it's timeline algorithm.

Which do you prefer greatest hits the latest Tweets latest always latest because if they're that good they'll turn up in latest because of the people by retweeting.

I don't need it actually it's weird, so that particular time on here and I'm looking I don't want to be seeing something that new actually something from 14 hours ago because someone I know liked it back then so yeah, that's the whole point of Twitter it's it's a news ticker service in one of the way to get people into earlier to say the simple thing about news is that it's new true and interesting everyone wants something new so I think it was quite Madness to turn it round into the greatest not the later.

Ok customer to Kermode and mayo's BBC Radio 5 Live film show is coming to an end true or false true this one from Liz flowers for the first after 21 years and it's not a bad run for a radio idea.

Is it a film review of 21 years they've done a pretty good job of that if I can stay on the radio for 21 years do the same thing you very happy somewhere else will pop up on her on another channel match.

Where do you think we'll see the lads appear to be all over and Greatest Hits so I mean.

Is not hit Mark Kermode is also doing so not scared as well, so I mean you wouldn't be surprised if that's where they ultimately ended up, but I think they are it's a radio show which is bigger the podcast people I know who listen to it.

It is a hugely successful pop up and actually I suspect they knowing some other people who work on some of the BBC's most successful podcast but feeling unloved because you know the long-standing.

They got a massive audience at but they don't get promoted on the 10:00 news and I don't get you know all the that's all made out of Gemma Collins Whatever by Beethoven is a great niece.

It's got you know a shelf life.

It's so yeah.

I've got my I would be amazed that they don't turn up at our sample question here we go play true or false at the BuzzFeed news app is going away true.

It is true.

Yes the award-winning news that was going to be shut down, but you're still be able to.

Currys in their main app and also in the daily newsletter.

This is a switch from kind of like being sort of non-stop news to maybe having a bit of thinking more newsletter type focus.

That's right for them.

I don't know about it saying how fantastic news feed was and then say it was scrapping it and I don't get why is it a cost thing is it at the fact that news coverage is very expensive and doing it well they do it well.

It seems to be on the in-depth coverage of something like the week.

You need to make up for the lack of the news feed a big fan of newsletters with red box around forever, but all they are they still the future.

I think BuzzFeed I've just never quite worked out and I know it's been to various iterations and ownership never quite worked out what they are because I remember it was all about you know which friends character.

Are you you quizzes? That's a viral content and all that you're 10 amazing faces from Legally Blonde or whatever might be and then they said have moved into staffing they working in in the lobby in Westminster doing really interesting journalism, it is there a quite sure how 3000 word profile on George Freeman alongside which friends character.

Are you and then they had some sort of Incredible investigations unit as well and then realised and I think the problem is I remember I worked at MailOnline Madeline and sometimes pitch an idea or store your treatment so that we don't do that.

We don't do list of things or whatever and is a very clear setting you can say what you like mad online.

Successful products body across all types of Media I very clear about what they're about and I think when BuzzFeed try to get serious and do news the people who liked it for the fun and then they won't get in a news audience because they were known for the fun and I just and I think this feels like another iteration of we're not quite sure what what we're about innowave other successful both of heritage traditional brands like the X or you know you and media startups.

You need a clear sense of what you're all about and I think that I don't think what that is what we don't you here for the phone, but I don't like crowds Liz just about the winner.

Don't mind if I go and review the scores to make up absolutely sure that's ok with that is too much really and Liz health.

And it times stop radio as well as the Times red box podcast as well.

I'm still touring the country on the stand up to see your photos on Match.com and Liz where did people discover the Adventures of your podcast producer sleep matters still standing up in my new book is called the judge at st.

James and it's the fourth in the you get it on Amazon for £99.

I tell you what it's really but I would say that thank you and Liz and if you stay with us right through to that we see you lots to show so why not become a patron of it.

Just go and sign up at patreon.com Media pod that picture on the media pod if you've just dropped on this episode.

Are you haven't subscribed yet? You can subscribe follow This podcast in all those great podcast apps of choice at Apple podcasts Spotify

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See you next week.

Something's just had some play to your day in the Toast is it pops out of the toaster dancing down the street to your favourite playlist sparkly boots to the shop and best of all fitting new pink scratchcard a pink, please.

Thank you add some scratch cards from the National Lottery dream big play small celebrate summer with me take a trip with family funny that all around the world began featuring the timer songs of ABBA

You already know you get a love it.

I never like the analogy of being this comes down and never liked it because when I was the AMA people my people live here I moved to New York and I went all over the world when I came home.

My people were still here.

My family is here.

So how do you talk about a city maggots disappear? My name is Jessica caramoor Detroit resilience and herself in the heart of the Day by the show on podcast Spotify or wherever you find great stories.