Read this: Edinburgh International TV Festival 2023

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Play Welcome to the media podcast Spotify podcast Discovery IMAX discuss the state of the British TV industry in 2023.

It's been a hard year for many and that was before that us writing and acting strike started to fight with many skills freelancers out of work for much of it what the trains that can give you the Edge and what did Louis Theroux's keynote bring to the Occasion on the programme one of the report is behind the 10 wooden scandal Tom reaction tells us what the reaction has been within the press all their place in the media quiz.

We will be a what is coming to your screen soon.

That's all coming out in this edition at the Minute podcast in the news this week the New York Times has blocked open a eyes webcrawler which stops chat GPT from using the time to content as a data source the my tea is also considering illegal act.

The past copyright misdemeanours NPR reported last week and producer Emma Gannon said she won't write for free anymore after the successful launch of has substack.

I mean to do a press Gazette set the substrate was waking so much the podcast the done and it doesn't serratus and now making six figures on more on substack in the UK that's according to the newsletter platform and the first photos from the new Frasier production around showing Nicholas Lyndhurst yes Rodney from Only Fools and Horses drinking a pint with Kelsey Grammer the series is due to are in October on paramount plus today's broadcast magazines Rebecca Cooney deadlines Jake Hunter and byline times is Tom latchem welcome to the show the first quite a spicy tube8, didn't it? Did it did so who holds the power in TV is an hour before honest, but it was a really good conversation.

It was originally conceived to Stephanie but it seemed like it was very much about kind of issues of representation issues of relationships all that sort of thing and then of course we can say that about how absolutely screw freelancers are in the wake of few things by commission so there's just left work around and people are kind of trying to work out.

How they got that kind of you know is a situation where people feel very power that so you can't have these really meaty subjects and get I think thank you to my skirt.

Just came out of it.

Just absolutely saying that you know there is massive golf between people at the top of the industry and and the average workers that they were all these entry schemes that she used to get in that don't exist anymore and just that the industry is going to keep in touch unless it does something about it.

So yeah.

There was a lot of power is a recurring theme in the manager that debate head to Jake is there more tension in the other normal or you just joking it.

We set up a panel to baby and that was that was right from the start.

I agree answering that question earlier on my part, but it was it was it was fine.

I think we try to get into some of these issues.

I think we were trying to cover a lot of ground with a lot of parallel to the short amount of time but we're trying to get to some somebody's issues in terms of problems which has been dominant rightly so yo people are out of work struggling to pay the bills and I think the industry needs to solve this riddle.

There is a real boom and bust about the way freelancer treated and it needs to be much more to say but I don't think the people on our panel yesterday have the right answers to that question was about this.

What percent is which we may discuss a bit later we should be really fun saying to him or on and it just feels like that's a really dominant theme this year just in the media.

We are saying a lot of presenters being accused of not treating their colleagues appropriately and we try to get to the number that as well your first interview since you started or your storage write down waiting for the byline times.

Have you just about come up for her? Yeah? It's been nice to come up here actually because I've been here for past years is not in my role as a TV journalists and now I came up to the handout newspapers with the damn button should say I'm not really the only Media outlet that had the junction and frankly bullocks to do.

What was quite a scary story but a story that was staring the entire mirror in the face.

They all knew about it and yet.

No one did anything about and I was looking at me and Dan Evans my colleague.

We were looking at it and paid for three years very litigious Man Down rotten.

What cells does a sort of a hobby really by 3 years did you out there because I I knew the truth so boyfriend tweeted that Discovery around the batteries using pseudonyms to Catfish people and then blackmailed them and it was only for 8 hours not many people spotted it.

I spotted it and I went and made Alex a very very good from from the next one of very few people who had the ability the contacts and Frankie the time being a freelance journalist and PR and whatever I've been with my various hands over the years to get justice for the victims and that was important.

How accurate and that really careful and eventually he then decided in the light of the jedwards staff and Phillip Schofield stuff which town was incredibly hypocritical about Phillip Schofield bizarrely, so give him what we exposed about him.

He tweeted it is I woke up to this.

Week's 17 million x Sudan use all the time and we went to war and and actually we've

It's been a real success and an actually have a knotted on it those victims alleged victim was there tormentor there is there there's his own he was a powerful man in his role supported by a powerful organisation supported by powerful organisations.

They say they've got money behind them power the man is on TV every night as being a political left wing for Dartford I'm not a political Force I'm an independent.

Are we with an attack by the far right? I had it on my windscreen of my car.

We were hacked constantly.

We are still being hacked constantly being spoofed calls it's sinister and whether it's

From Crazy Right wingers, does it come from her a plan I've got absolutely no idea but he definitely Kicked the Hornets Nest of the right of the far-right and so yes play Imagine someone that was that but you know that it all happen when we broke the story what someone doesn't want to come out and there's more to come and people really don't want this to come out.

It's not really just being him and they're being other things connected to connected many things he's been up to other people that were involved.

I guess we believe so I don't believe you have the time to listen and he was writing the paper doing going to Awards ceremonies, etc.

Etc.

I find it difficult to believe that he was able to also be one of the UK's most catfishes in his spare time is this phone hacking party, then? I don't believe that News UK the Sun new the levels of behaviour that he was doing but what they did.

Was he was bullying people who is sexually harassing people and in the run-up to the phone hacking trial which is in January and February this is going to be a very very difficult problem for them and I do understand.

I'm speaking to people they work in there that situation whereby their former staff will attempt to seek legal recourse against them they'll be celebrities that want to do so as well who been touched by Dan waiting for his role there in in doing in the sort of means and they might have to get that again.

I know they have well.

They're not afraid of spending some money to the phone and stuff is bad for them.

They've always denied it that it happened on their watch but we know it now seems that isn't the case and they've got that 12 coming up is going to be giving evidence there and this could not have come at a worse time for them and and that's the truth.

I got a lot of friends work there this isn't a campaign against them all.

I'm doing is reporting fairly.

What down what did on their payroll and maybe with?

And what happens from there on and I can't control Jake the interesting one has had a massive pickup has it from other media they touched on the work Tom's done not be front and centre as well.

Sheffield was that I feel like changing a bit.

I certainly getting more visibility now.

Obviously not as big as for the household the story itself more damning and bonkers than either Phillip Schofield love you Edwards anything like you Edwards but the story itself is mad and also it's got elements to it.

Yes, yes, that's true absolutely I wonder I wonder who turned down and the other question I wanted to ask you is has Dan zone past been a barrier to pick up.

Do you think of course in a lot of these places?

4 people are convicted incestuous and people move Elsewhere and so there is also ok, what would you work for the other company that he hasn't worked but you know I used to work with them and there is a complete there.

I think there's also I've got to say I think that this is a boy damning indictment on the British Media unpaid snacks.to to go and and and and picnic's and do it and and and it also still hasn't comedy gig last night right and really good is name was Paddy young.

Just nominated for the best newcomer and he's fantastic old man wearing a pair of Air Max right so anyway, he goes out.

What do you do then?

Set on a journalist and what do you do? What sort of journalism and investigative journalist and it's alright? What are you investigate? I said Dan Watson everybody round of applause for this man for doing that and I got a round of applause from from An Audience so people know who to the TV festival has been a malignant force on the British Media for an awful long time the way you treat people not just about the cat fishing stuff, but just the way he treated you know the way that he threw it out people if they didn't do that.

Sort of stuff right and also what I will say is everyone here listening to this now will probably go down tonight.

And I would make an appeal right now anyone has had a dealing with Dan Wilson make their brains and think about whether they might have had a negative interaction with him potentially catfishing people using pseudonyms, but more than that the way in which we treat people if you've got a story about Dan Wootton and about how he went outside of ethically correct and write as a journalist in your dealings with him a little and mine.

Are you think it is I would appeal for you to get in touch with us because this isn't just about the catfishing is about Hoedown what number has a journalist.

What is the leading showbiz entertainment over the coming weeks and months so we have got plenty of Us leave.

Take a little break it become quite overwhelming both for us and I think probably for the public and

Taking a little break City season anyway.

Love you all know that but we working on some things that we believe really will take this into the mainstream and I mean of course that's that's it is not arrested first well.

We'll see thank you Tom you're welcome.

Thank you very much.

Love you.

Thank you is well Rebecca tiktok.

It's always been on everyone's lips last few years still again this year and a session about it, but always been a partnership announced with the BBC hasn't yeah, so, this is the BBC a concerted effort yet to reach out to these kind of these influences and then short form content particularly tiktok, so they're taking around 100 tiktok stars other inviting them to come and sort the train to commissioners.

This is how we can turn you and and

I saw this part of me thought people give a shit.

I mean they've got like they got big autism selves like a model ties directly they can turn around content play is this the BBC and others broadcasters on her own stuff what you can do when having your parents like it's going to last if I've kind of you know from 20-year old is making a career of this what's next and I don't think that's why I think I should think I'll take it up as probably.

Cos of the BBC got a chance I mean, they must have done a bit of research and discovered that there's some appetite for this otherwise.

They wouldn't have launched it.

I do think there's a bit of snow here.

I don't know maybe that's not the right word, but I think it's still there still a slight feeling and tell you that it's a higher power than then platforms like tiktok and that's just not true.

I don't think and I think actually would the BBC be better served by doing a boot camp his own presenters to be on maybe I'm quite a high bar to get onto the scheme you got to have like either 30000 followers or have had videos have done like two videos that done like to become part of the ski.

Influences from tiktok and other social media platforms and engage them in the BBC and they come out of this game thinking about the BBC's alright and then they talk about the BBC their audiences.

That's that's the BBC so it works on different levels, so I'm not I'm trying not to be to see my pond her and Coco Chanel but you do well on on tiktok Italian don't work so we do see it as I was chatting to Joe Sugg yesterday success on YouTube strictly company in the format space was how complicated is to make television compared to a lot of the stuff that he has done previously understand the differences in all of that side, but we'll sort of a little bit behind do you think TVs moving fast enough on on these changes or is it?

The same old things and doing the same quality status like Joe Sugg almost generation ahead of the tiktok is I mean I guess one slight bribe.

I have about it is at the BBC's partnering with tiktok at the same time as telling it starts to delete tiktok from its phone which is really mixed messaging so that that might be a riddle That the BBC has to solve in the future if there are increased security concerns about tiktok and the BBC is actively working with them that might become reasonably controversial in the future.

I don't know I will be back with Rebecca and Jake and someone else so we can grab from the mighty Thor on here at the Edinburgh TV festival after this.

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Tell you about your surroundings whatever the weather try the petrol plug-in hybrid or fully electric at your local retailer and see which one speak to you standard on Vauxhall Astra ultimate search offers navigate to this year's festival the mactaggart lecture was delivered by Louis Theroux famous we talked about the risk of not taking risks is the man himself the urge to switch off all the negativity to turn one detention elsewhere to not feed the trolls understand the need to consider people's well-being.

The things all the possible prejudices that may be contained in programs the impact of jokes and unconscious bias and the multiple ways in which a TV show can do harm, but it's also true that big difference between platforming and doing challenging journalism about controversial subjects.

There's a strange new world out there that's going Stranger by the day.

It's our job as TV makers, do you understand it, but people like me that means going out and making programs about it.

Is offal McTaggart and Ellie can't say she's the senior reporter at broadcast Ellie post McTaggart what do you think about me? How to say I love how to say I think if I was a person producing or conditioning TV right now.

I feel like I had a bit of pick up the butt to be taking Morris a bit more bold and brave and yeah.

I thought he was usual self-effacing funny self.

It was a nice mixed as a journalist.

I don't know if I bring him about doing a platform.

He said yes should be not be scared about giving people platforms and sometimes decisions are about whether we're afraid of what will happen if you platform somebody rather than making the decision actually you're not the right person to speak to you.

Scary places that we don't always know about and they always want to face up to wear that comes on you know mainstream TV or not another question.

I would be I want to be seen at the festival so far and it's come back again this year and Osman of gold Wala made for Nectar points about smaller and he's being pushed out of big companies getting back and what he had to say he said I've had a bit of face off with Kate Phillips at the BBC points for made.

It was great creative director of love Productions I mean it was it was a good selection having Louis casino.

He's a producer and he's someone who has you know as he has he said tonight.

You know his way up from the top of thought it was.

Is extremely intelligent extremely thought it was sort of poetic you know and I felt that the central message.

You know it's something that the really admirable creative people in our industry and have been banging on about for years and never changes take risks to something that's never been done before keep saying the unsayable and it made me proud to be working television so I said a lot of what he had a lot of sentence.

He just funny.

You know what it was funny funny and thoughtful not to be that Focus to take risks becoming increasingly harder.

Obviously you know I mean he made fun of the whole passion and the power thing that you do have to be passionate and I think he's in his own way you know we're all I mean I think you do if your passing the work and television and we all have our own style and why is it doing that but yeah you do.

I think you've got a bit of fearlessness.

Success and failure of the lower success and your place particularly with the piano what's coming next week that we really fortunately been commissioned to do two more seasons and to do Christmas specials and you know we're just excited to be making the show again.

It's been a you know it's definitely something with very passionate about and yeah, we really really looking for Bake Off coming out this year Uno Bacup has been filmed so we got the series in the can want to be to over because at the end of the day.

I'll be the audience you decide that you know Alison is a fantastic.

You know addition to the Bake Off family and so you know I think we're quite excited about that.

That's your land and you know and things up.

You know certainly brought an energy to the tent which has been really exciting to see.

It's always nice to see you as well.

I suppose Stewart's about the bakers.

She likes people and she likes to connect with people and I think that sense.

That's you know.

It's a really positive thing with me.

I'm also been joined by France and hello mate.

How you doing? I'm good.

I thought you had quite a tough gig yesterday on the reboots and it was horrible to be the voice of against you have to be Media doom profile, so we did I get a session on Henry boots and whether or not there a good thing and I know I very much look I run a smaller in the emerging as I'd like to.

Keep reminding it was probably small it makes me feel inferior I'm emerging right.

I'm going to be picking eventually because we are emerging we don't have like a massive back catalogue of things that we can reboot and you know entertainment in particular is a really high bar to break into but it can absolutely if you get a gig away.

You know it's the right company but we as a company you need to think about anything about the job.

You surely think about you know loads of stuff before we even get in the door and now he has additional things to contend with which is actually the company that meeting at the years near going round the merry-go-round and can do it again and existing you know telly is now is there some game right we are in a world where the frozen Channel 4 of you know had to Battle privatisation and I've had to kind of Titan the bells because he had ever Newmarket ITV

So we have to be realistic but after every reboot that gets made on telly.

It means they've left money to spend Elsewhere and that less money frankly comes down to People Like Us but like I'm scrapping for every pound.

Can you can get hold off? So it is a real challenge when you hear that these massive shows a massive budget say run by massive companies are getting the rich rewards of a big Saturday night Prime Time show quite Walton because it was on the panel with me.

She wants you nobody else scripted.

She keep yourself up for that panel to talk about it.

It isn't just the BBC you're doing this right.

It's ITV channel 4 Channel 4 Indian cats kind of started this conversation last McTaggart but you know they have looked at reboots and done things you can argue that married at first sight is a reboot of the original format.

You know something that is exclusive to just the BBC and I think they're all of those channels are public service british channels Rebecca if you think about the BBC Gladiator

ITV a survivor coming for my TV as well.

They're using all licence fee payers money to do that on the panel.

She said well.

We've got to give value and if you're spending millions of pounds on these new shows maybe you got to be sure there going to be a hit.

This is whether it's going to reinvigorate Linear or just keep it for a bit longer actually something like a show that I remember from my childhood, but I went to watch gladiators be recorded when I was about 6 likes on finger and everything I think I would as that was going out to watch it so I can see where they're coming from but I do have a lot of sympathy was not far saying about it being a zero-sum game, but there is there is limited money is happening at the moment and I think a lot of India sort of going about are cool original ideas.

What about we keep hearing about taking risks one.

I take a risk of something new to the special position.

Commercial broadcasters you need to make a buckle to the TV 1% of her 3000 hours and didn't talk about the money and the percentage of money represents.

I bet it'll be more than 1% and I thought price is too modest to say this but basically pitch an idea that you've been talking about a couple of years on stage and did it brilliantly and said basically sure you can commission shows with big produces, but some of the smaller producers or emerging producers producers should be brought some of those deals and Dale experience and exposure by co-producing some of those you could do it yourself.

Exactly like that.

I might my view is it this morning and myself as an emerging indie? We always said we got a big idea go and speak to the company.

I do understand that had the other way around we are also constantly being told region production Theory important diversified production.

Important is going to big international conglomerate.

They have bigger balance sheets in Channel 4 Channel 5 ITV and BBC themselves, so we need to ask a real strong public service questions about what we're doing to nurture the UK emerging market always been the best in the world and I can TV and I think of the simple case of going on public money or you want public service you know space 220 show and not sure Gran I wish you are probably very well with a distribution that probably wear these big indeed play.

It's not on the 30th if you need to team up with a smaller indeed because we believe that what they bring to the table is really interesting important and

One step further because you know we had your know who was front or back saying fine.

That's really lovely and autistic but that's an effective balance sheet again.

I don't believe that's true.

These companies are in the in the market for acquiring indeed as I go ahead and it's just a way to deal with that.

Let's try them out.

Let's see if they were they see if they fit with the company culture without having taking the risk of Ashley buying into the Jake just my idea what city is there's a tender out the mean for Destination X right and that tender specifically said you have to have turnover particular an hour which is very very high you need to make certain out of hours to do that etc, and that's it true.

We can't make destination to small I get it like don't get me wrong.

This is this is the thing on the bus.

Give me the new big thing after putting a lot of a lot of money behind it a really confident about it they for the format and then I'll put it up for me to tender.

There's absolutely key place where you could have gone we expect you to come with a smaller indeed that you have identified that you want to work with and show how you're going to do this in an innovative way to support that we can get these Indies involved in getting them with the experience and it's coming across the entire and I've heard this conversation about freelancers as well Crossing time.

You like you can't do it because you haven't got the experience and you can't get it until you get that seems to run from all the way up and I think the BBC has the power to make that change perhaps uniquely.

Cheap cut-offs of a Channel 5 they worked in the market for reboots, did you see Ben session anybody so I worry that commissioning a Channel 5 is very free to put a cult talisman from here Edinburgh controllers spotlight sessions have been pretty dry.

I think actually and he tried to bring us a different play baby got bull brand to do the interview and that's a good choice and he also revealed that he himself postcode.

He thinks he had a breakdown.

And then had the white thing off the shoulders my name.

He was leaving that made you feel much better and then resigned and he still there.

Yes, I think it's all quite carefully stage managers.

I think they were a little while before he made it to Sydney particularly among senior executives perspective that you cannot show weakness and a flash of weakness what position is strength, but I think it's good that he's talking about these issues and hopefully others will do the same he didn't take any time off though.

It's not like I'm going to take a break he was more than the release of that resignation which helped him recover that was that was the way he described it.

Something about if you say oh last year I really suffered with my mental health.

I had a breakdown in a terrible space.

I'm thinking of things people will go well done your sobre for coming forward actually in the moment of crisis if you come for us like that and you guys to stop doing this and I need to take a step back and I may not be available for things people are left comfortable with it.

So there is something about from a position of power as being people can stay open late.

I'm struggling at the moment back.

Just clearly absolute crazy Maverick and he has done some exceptional work is very briefly on the reboot saying he did and I'm forever Yuri being Big Brother kind of back in the day has been rebooted 15 time now on ITV2 so you know you've always got everything that bends.

Have a bit of a pinch of salt.

I think it was very brave him.

To as somebody in his position and to be honest as we all say it's like known as a character and you know you don't expect him to have conversations when he does they are more powerful as a result and like I absolutely command it to get on the Edinburgh stage and say that he was struggling and Mrs bean and he makes a difficult decision to get through and not only that but he's putting things in place with fishing team to allow them have some breathing space and I genuinely believe that does create and Foster more creativity brilliant thing around only thing I would say is it it feels like dicks rest of this Edinburgh has been with stress and pressure on the freelance market and I sometimes think the channels don't recognise that they have staff job but allow them said he's very long resignations and no there is a release valve for them that you simply doesn't exist there are times when I'm running a small company if we don't get a commission emerging company, sorry.

Company I'll get it right eventually we have we don't get a commission that hasn't one-to-one impact on my own bank balance on my mortgage payments on and 3 the same as they don't get any work.

You know they don't have this opportunity to go you'll be ok.

He will look after you.

You can take a few months or if you can come back when you're ready except.

That's not an option is available to people that are worried right now Rebecca wearing a freelance industry TV as a freelance driven industry.

No one's gonna wear white Jack everyone's like even people have got commissioned like it's it's not going well.

It is bad.

It is bad for freelancers.

Yeah, I'm hearing all stories from kind of just saying I haven't worked in here and watching 3-months.

I don't know how can I pay my mortgage is St on my mental health and there is also the sphere of like ok? There's a slow down at the moment when things pick up again.

Talking about the industry, but people are leaving the industry, so what happens when can I pick it up again? Who who who is going to make your shows then and I think that is a real concern that the only solution to this or is everyone just stuck there are Solutions I certainly haven't heard that is talking about this is an issue, but not coming out with me on so that's a problem and it feels like there needs to be some leadership on this issue rather than just checking some money in a hardship hot and hoping that freelancers get through this everything turned out alright in the end.

There are structural issues that need addressing highly who works at the BBC One story bill talked about having a review of some sort of independent review operates and how freelancers can have a more safe and sustainable place within that I don't think that's a terrible idea.

I think I don't know who would do that Ofcom another.

Everybody baby skills body, but it needs have cloud and people need to be compelled to give evidence and it needs to come up with solutions at the whole industry can buy into some new titles and work for people to find out whether you been paying attention in the media quiz.

I'm gonna tell you the title of the new show and tell me if it's a new commission allowance on made up by the producer everything you know if they're real or fake ajq.

Say Rebecca you'll say number one how to get to heaven from Belfast what what is it from a crater at least it's a

comedy thriller, I looks really really excited and it's 330 meeting up until you've had a life's gone differently the mystery of a death of an old classmate number to your name alligator alley Jake property together together 9 members of England's 2003 Rugby World Cup winning team to go behind bars and train inmates against Australia

Is it OK well that is very very TV series about Mike Williams the vanishing hunting trip the authorities presume you eaten by alligators, but one woman begins to suspect the Trooper it is closer to home and that'll be a TV reboot at some point at 5, there's the door.

That is a great day through and through it is true, but I want it to be true.

What is fake it's in the 4:10 at your dad's 11214 that Show by the end of the festival would be there's the door feels like it's it's a Joinery show where like I'm gonna have to make special doors that can be the new 10 Downing Street door breakup format.

We had dating format.

What about break up for that great.

I do not know more sugar cake like I think it might be a genius or I might hate it.

I can't decide finally another server wipe Your Side

That's not true 1Xtra Anderson podcast Geordie Shore Nathan Henry and rose Frimpong from the tee podcast put their love lives in the hands of Ronaldo astrologist celestial tree you all winners and join my new development team for formats well done.

Thanks, Rebecca Cooney and Jake Hunter today if you're new to the show welcome here every week coming TV radio on social media following your podcast out right now and get more episodes with me reboot ourselves in September for we go at how can we keep up with what you're doing Jake

Go to deadline or I'm on Jake underscore cancer on.

X I mean I can't I feel dirty even saying I am increasingly withdrawing from that rail broadcast now.co.uk in broadcast magazine and at Rebecca me on Twitter and at any name Becky on spreads.

Go everywhere and I'm phasmin on on don't look up for us on Instagram it's like you've got more followers on me and leave better life for me.

Thank you very very cross.

Please.

Don't do that and also if you listening Channel 4 ITV channel 5 and you like the idea that they can I check that but please call me it is a conversation to BBC that's my big pitch.

Give me a call on email or whatever it is.

My details are all of that in the show dates.

Thank you.

It was a audio production.

I'll see you back with weekly episodes from September 7th.

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