Read this: Guardian editor-in-chief Katharine Viner

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts from his new today podcast the editor-in-chief of the Guardian Katharine viner is here also going to take a look at Rumble which has been in the news this week.

It bills itself as the free speech video platform and its where Musselburgh in streaming since YouTube demonetized him and then there's also the small matter of the news breaking at GB news this afternoon one of its staff presenters has been suspended welcome to everybody who is showing knicker.

I'll ask you about your new podcast in the moment, but what to make this stupid news development Dan Wootton has been suspended after comments were made on his show last night by Laurence fox that were beyond the pale GB news opening admit that it's been trying to test the boundaries of Ofcom allows that's part of the channels USP I just wondered what your reaction is to this breaking story.

I know you've been quite outspoken on off on route.

I never want to want to intrude in the private grief of our competitors, but on this occasion.

I can't resist GB news lost one presenter some time ago after allegations that he was a vaccine denied denied of course and I had to spend two of the airing of misogynist to rent in which one was told another that he wouldn't want to and I won't complete the sentence because we do on a family show to do it anyway to someone he described as a hyper offended fourth wave feminist.

I mean what this is reminder us if the alongside some really excellent classy news journalist centres as well as producers and others behind the Caesar GB news and there are plenty of those people it is increasingly becoming homes conspiracy theorist polluting public Debate and it means that offer is being tested as never before because GB news is a regulated news channel is remember that it looks like a news channel sounds like a new channel it chooses to present.

What is a new channel with the approval of Ofcom and yet? It is not like any news organisation or Channel that you and I've ever seen in our lifetimes and the regulators got a bit of work at out now to work out quite what is a word isn't that someone is bigger issues later.

I should say that GB news the story broke when GB news tweeted it said it had suspended Dan Wootton following comments made programme Laurence fox last night.

It said this follows our decision earlier today to formally suspend Mr Fox we are conducting a full investigation say GB news and Katharine viner you also here.

I'm here to talk about the new Europe Edition but before we come to that.

What's your take on this breaking story also what next and it was absolutely horrible to watch wasn't the RAM the sniggering the full of contempt.

I think all women would recognise it, but it was and I'm I'm glad to see this outcome because my experience of misogynist attacks is that nothing really happened and there are no consequences.

You know I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised by these two.

Obviously long time who they are but as I say, I think I'm glad I've been suspended because so many what has happened to send me women in public Life and and it's the right thing to do and as I said you had to talk about the road conditions and let's do that you've just launched.

It.

Is it a newspaper? Is it digital what is it? It's in the English language and it's because we've been thinking.

It's more internationally in recent years at the Guardian we've got a very successful American edition.

That's bigger than politics and the Atlantic and sign in America with massive and Australia where we bigger than the Australian in the morning Carol it was a natural next step we already have a very big audience in Europe there very loyal and I think there's so many big journalistic issues that are playing out across the continent whether that's climate heating air quality migration and identity politics nationalism populism oil Money flooding into sport and a Corsa Ukraine War

I think lots of these are challenges that cross national borders and we can bring a kind of transnational approach of bows and also inform European is about the rest of the world cos we have such a big for a global footprint and is it aimed at English speaking Europeans expats abroad who just people is speaking I think we've got all the experts abroad already signed any money.

You've got nearly 200000 people in Europe who give us money on a regular basis which is pretty amazing, but I think the English language penetration in your is is extremely high now.

It's got much higher the last 10 years and a visitor to Germany safe can can recognise that and I think there's a sort of need for this to be a second source.

We're not going to be a primary source for those audiences.

There's lots of good Media already in those countries, but we often something different something and what's the top story on it today is not a test question maybe you don't know maybe you do actually.

Live blogging ahead of Slovakian election on Sunday which is not something with done before so it's obviously very important election will also been looking at drones that are used by Russia and Ukraine you know it is just bought it brought on the news.

I think one of the things we've invested in this point is culture European culture is thriving sport does massive interest in sport in Europe and the environment and community affairs so we trying to sort of look at it thematically rather than as nation-states are such as it will be very fortunate to have both you and Robinson hair so both please stay with us.

I just do want to talk for a little about rumble which meant to be listening might still not of heard all but it is in the news because Russell Brand is now regularly streaming on it after YouTube to the decision stop paying him a share of the ad revenue from his videos the chair of the culture and media select committee Caroline Dinenage Den route to Rhumble asking whether it will follow suit with YouTube and demonetize him.

Used to be a controversial letter to send which will talk about the moment, but here's a taste of Russell Brand starting his show on rumble a few days ago with Russell Brand on well if you watching this on YouTube or anywhere else eventually you're going to have to click the link in the description and join us over in Rumble and if you can become a supporter is the only way that you can back our independent boys at a time where it's obviously being challenged with you today.

What is it all about? We got Libby emmons editor-in-chief of the Canadian you cite the post millennial and Sarah have you got Fordson research fellow at the town centre for digital journalism Sarah that start with you.

Just explain little bit what rumble is and it's USP so basically like you too but for conservatives in very rare figures it started in 2013.

It's been around for a bit but is point.

out by just being like silly videos of dogs and cats and kind of stuff on YouTube to but because of dairy free speech approach it ended up being distant safe Haven where people come to were being censored on other platforms, so people like Russell Brand or no Robert Kennedy feel like they can't be a mainstream classrooms anymore, they migrate to Clapham South rumble dad kind of pastas free-for-all attitude and allows our content tolerate stuff that other platforms down is we're going to refuse for people kept off YouTube essentially yes exactly and can I bring Libby emmons in editor of the Post which describes itself as one of the largest conservative news outlets in the world and you also write for the likes of The Spectator and the New York Post I want to look at this letter, but Caroline Dinenage wrote To Rumble

Well, we recognise that rumble is not the creator of the content published by Mr brand we are concerned that you may be able to profit from his content on the platform and the letter went on we would like to know where the rumble interns to join YouTubers suspending Mr G ability to earn money on the platform know you'll be have talked about the cancellation as you see it a Russell Brand and you called it an attempt to destroy the parallel economy before the cancellation but can you just tell me what you mean by the parallel economy alternative used to the mainstream Media narrative and mainstream of United States place to speak their mind and know that they're not going to be censored tyres and turn off an alternative platforms like rumble exist because you believe that the likes of YouTube on compatible with your views on politics.

Personally now, but it is essential to be platforms where people can speak their mind freely without being afraid of that.

They're going to be cancelled and ejected from the internet has happened to so many of yeah contributors.

Who do now find themselves and unequivocally and I think that's a value that is essential to American you know liberties and in reply to Caroline Dinenage is letter the rumble founder Chris potoski sent back a pretty tough letter here or email you we regarded of deeply and dangerous.

He said that the UK Parliament would attempt to control who is allowed to speak on our platform or turn a living from doing so sending out an individual and demanding his band is even more disturbing given the absence of any connect the allegations and his content on rumble we don't agree with the behaviour of any rumble created but we refuse to penalise them for actions that have nothing to do with our platform and a spokesperson for the culture media and sport committee.

That said these are decisions for each platform to taken at no point has the culture media and sport committee ask any provider to remove contact number seavaste representatives from rumble and select to come on the program but neither agreed to you, but I just wanted from your perspective you and the postman in Hill stream videos on rumble it does it does it work for you.

Do you make money out of it is magnetised on a number of different social media platforms including ramble where monetize on Twitter and Facebook and YouTube and we see you perfectly good reasons to quit our contact.

This is the digital newsstand and I we're going to take advantage of his many of those opportunities as we can and Sarah I want to pick up on what Libby calls was talking about the parallel economy, how profitable is it compared to the other economy so posting on YouTube for example Sarah I just wondered if you know the answer to that.

They say that they put creator of first and so on YouTube usually you need a certain amount of subscribers and what time in order to make money and rumble this side as soon as you get on the platform you start posting videos you get paid based on engagement, so that's how do you sell your platform? They're saying that they put creative careers First and dad's better for Debden dentist on TV on YouTube and Elon Musk reply to Russell Brand that she on x which most people used to do still cold as Twitter he said it is rather disappointing that he Russell Brand is exclusively pushing rumble when access supported free speech just as much so it does seem sorry.

There's a kind of competition going on here and I remember when Tucker Carlson when I'm scared too.

I think you'll have to pay about why he didn't stay and rumble and these are the two like big butts platforms that are supporting this.

Free speech is still feels like Twitter's we bigger than rumble and ramble at this point only does videos but then again rumble has been grown a lot in the past so maybe the competition will be a bit more bigger in a few years and Libby emmons editor-in-chief of the Post millennial.

What do you make that he's going to win rumble your master? Is it nothing competition for the British government or the American government has to say about their rights to do so the very fact that the British government is getting involved in telling platforms are any platform that is absolutely insane is anathema to our bill of rights and to the contact delivery at the British government.

It was a select committee or them.

That when it comes to politics my Sarah I saw that rumble tonight is hosting the next Republican candidate debate is the official streaming partner and yet it cos he what is he said he wants to reduce the platforms dependence on political news Cycles and elections.

Do you think it's doable I think that's their strategy depending on political content but it also means that there a ship's waiting for the year.

So last week last year when we have the elections in the US completely Pete I'm rumble and then it just went down again, and that's why they're trying.

I think you're taking more cultural consent is to keep this near ship, Weymouth

And so they are recruiting popular twitch streamers speed and that's bringing his huge and very young audience to rumble and I've been so consider the cultural sector and Libby what do you make of it and can you see rumble becoming known for all sorts of content or more content not just around politics and free speech think it's a good business model and I think it's not going to be great for the cultural space in the United States to have a lot more options available and what we see you on YouTube of cases needs to be a fight back against of people to create new where you know podcaster is twitch streamers to talk to the BBC's Nick Robinson about his new podcast which famously.

Has to be in partial, I'm interested Libby emmons what impartiality means to you that was what was going on on the journalistic Landscape and I don't know that's entirely accurate order.

It was ever after it.

I think that what makes most sense is for check it out.

Let's to say outright with their bias.

May be so that readers can make their own determination can read all of the outlets that they want to read and get a sense of what are the different perspective on current events are the publication and I do wish that some of the other outlets that claim to be impartial would actually just Express with their buy it but it is Lily Allen's serigraphie Godwinson thank you for now and Nick Robinson what do you make of that Express your bias is what Levi saying?

Is that there is actually a link between the Russell Brand controversy the fact that he is on rumble and what we're seeing a GB news bellerbys.

Just rest between the nature of the allegation and what is the link before it always slogans.

You've just Pro free speech.

Don't want to be cancelled resisting the mainstream Media doing in The Legacy Media there's no such thing as what these people generally what they crave clicks and retweets shares and likes and not always but so so often than what they called saying the unsayable not pushing the boundaries not just crossing the boundaries but smashing them to smithereens and claiming that anybody object that is in favour of some form of censorship in my taxi driver today said to me that he listen to GB news and I said what why do you watch TV shows that more people are going to die because of the vaccine.

Then because of the covid virus that everyone knows that we been told that climate change is man-made when it isn't what is being dressed up as free speech is actually all too often solution of our public conversation Did you want to come to make a much sorry and said you wanted I'll come to be taking a much tougher stance then.

I think I've got needs to be clear.

Why it regards this news.

I mean clearly there is chat.

There is told there is debate but I'll come needs to be clear what it seems his new using and what isn't you done to be fair? I'll probably got the number of enquiry going on an annual leave one of the things about impartiality is I shouldn't tell off got what they should say what they should think it's what I do.

Feel entitled to say is and to show angry about and I've been doing it for 10 years and I'll be true to book about some of this 10 years ago is if we go down the roof of the United States we will destroy something special about Britain the ability to have.

A grown-up mature public conversation about how are countries and I mean she was talking about their lives about impartiality clearly at something that you have to buy I have to live by somebody who works in news at the BBC let's talk about your podcast that I mean wouldn't it be easier this sense? We think people like opinion right it? Is it is it possible for a parcel take on the news? Would it be easier and possibly make your shows more popular if you were able to be a bit more opinionated.

I may be your new podcast for today program is an opportunity for that the BBC has a compulsory licence but you're forced to do pay it for good or a long one of the bits of good is it means everybody owns it and that means that we're not entitled to Express in partial Wikipedia about me and other presenters and what they thought 30 years ago the question is do we leave that at the door.

Do we think?

Today podcast is going to do is the colour slow down take a breather kick off our shoes if you like think a little deeper about a story think behind in a way that with a live radio news show which want to be up-to-the-minute? What's the give you what you need that? There's a news briefing can't always do to the frustration and some of its listeners.

I think that added value without having to bang on about what we think we're not centrist Dad dads Katie wood journalist Dad ok and when you come to Dad I'm going to I'm going to have to ask my question, which is you no no no not that should be me but two blokes you and a mole more middle-aged bloke discussing current affairs.

We've already got Rory Stewart and Alastair Campbell got George Osborne Ed Balls as Zoe Williams visit and Catherine's paper today in fact.

What is it with podcast and all the Bros

Is free and Jane on times radio Anne mcelvoy, got a new podcast this week and political Emily maitlis house the newsagents Laura convert.

Just gone back to newscast having found Victoria Derbyshire does Ukraine cost you want me to go on lakes in anyway.

We will continue on this vein we everyone listening you listen to the media show on BBC Radio 4.

I wanted to bring in Katharine viner here from the Guardian let's think back to when he been said when it comes to rumble and the parallel economy, what is your take on all of that? I think it's no doubt that rumble makes money from distributing misinformation and it's trading conspiracy culture and I think it's whether you care about what that does to society I do and I think they're clearly a publisher and they need their not accountable they're not.

And so they should have somebody obligations that place on musical.ly is the price of free speech though.

I mean as Nick said if that is distributing really dangerous information that disrupting Society and disrupting people's lives.

I think I think some regulation would be would be relevant and what about Libby emmons point you're looking at what Caroline Dinenage writing to rumble and other platforms what you made of that you know some people might say it felt like politicians taking a stance on free speech and who should have a media profile.

I know what you mean.

I think rumble is is is a class apart and you know we don't want the Fox invocation of news in this country British TV channels are very trusted for news and I think a real loss to disrupt that too much is important to say at this point of course Russell Brand allegations against him when it comes to the BBC do you think that?

Be given more of a platform taxi Williams podcast two people with views that are considered with distaste by the so-called mainstream Media I do remember you saying few years ago people needed to get used to the idea.

They should hear it.

They would hear opinions on the BBC I think there is some time before the conventional Wisdom so that when Margaret Thatcher gamer long form of Economics people thought she was mad when people campaign for gay Rights they were treated as if they were older people campaign for more attention paid to the environmental worries about the level of immigration off.

There's a conventional Wisdom bias within the media as a whole or B A not specifically the BBC and I think he is the job of all of us to constantly question why it is that things that are seen as beyond the current debate on actually part of it and shouldn't be welcomed into the truth is case you were just asking I don't know who are first.

Will be that but I think it is part of our job to open up ideas, so that people don't feel you have to switch networks or channels to hear things that more Accord with their views.

I think you're the Guardian what we try to do is stretch the amount of opinion the perspective that we offer but it has to be based in facts.

It has to be fair.

I think you know it has to be accountable.

I think news organisations have to be transparent refunded otherwise it can lead to a very very dangerous path convinced.

I'm not convinced.

I would be someone who is you know I would say that free speech is an absolute should there be people who are not permitted to speak in the public square who gets to decide what is really dangerous information self-appointed journalist who gets to make me to terminations and I think it's important to note that as soon as one group of people starts coming down.

On the perspectives and use of another group of people the power is going to shift back in fortnite course so anything you just out this out to people that you just agree with them going to dish out to you when a charge and I think that we have to have some really strong standards as regards freedom of speech that I don't think can be violated.

I don't think that we can just sit here and the BBC and determine what we dangerous misinformation.

We look at the past several years and we see that things have changed to the ideas that were once and salad, I end up being over and I'm gonna cause of people don't know what that is but I do would like to bring in that Robinson there.

We're not talking about any opinions were talking about making sure that what we learn is broadly true and that the people who are broadcasted believe in trying to get as close to the truth.

I know just ask this is a very simple question.

Would you rather have the nature Republic debate that Libby has in the United States with a deeply divided politics with jahangir through would you rather have our puppy to be clear what people want cancer and find that what what do you think about first of all? I think it's about responsibility for what they publish for facts for processes for complaints for processes for taking down illegal content the sort of things that news organisations do to show that there are multiple and transparent and what does better for the Guardian is it your deep dive analysis example of a news story or is it opinion and what does the market want are we getting to a stage where people do want more opinion absolutely not I think that might have been true perhaps a decade ago, but I think people have a craving for good information investigative reporting serious reporting.

That's what we find.

Support the Guardian by very long way, you've got all you were going to guess you would want to say something will I just want to say that that cost money and in the debate about the BBC vs of the guard like I said will not but this is about investing money in real German investing money in conspiracy theories or opinion or chat or arguing misogyny.

It is about saying we will invest in people to try and find out what's going on and do our best to get as close to the truth as we can.

Thank you ever wished.

You didn't have to be in I made you look across with MB at I don't know people like Andrew Mario colleague or Emily maitlis who basically now I can speak so much more freely politicians to to do that all people are great columnist.

If I had a few weeks are probably have fun doing it.

I've no doubt don't be very interesting for people.

I mean I hope what is interesting is.

30 years as a political journalist and be able to give some analysis of anecdote some insights into what I've learnt which is why this has got me doing that.

I'm always just a little bit younger than me and Paul Rodgers who is the former newspaper have all the perspectives of other people in to try guests each week to try to give you a better more rounded field.

What's going on? Where can we find it just briefly for the end of the programme on BBC sounds and Europe your position.

We can presume you find it online if you're in the UK but it's actually find me the guardian.com I think you'll enjoy it from the post millennial and Sarah Garvey got Fordson from the town centre for digital journalism.

You will be listening to the media show on BBC Radio 4 will be back next week.

You can also hear us.

Again repeated if you'd like to hear again on BBC sounds but for now.

Thank you so much for listening.