Read this: 17/01/2024 Radio 4 Feedback

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts hello, this is the media show from BBC Radio 4 in the last couple of the US designated houthi Rebels in Yemen as a global terrorist organisation and in recent days the UK and the US as carried out strikes on hootie positions in Yemen we can look at the challenges of doing this military action and how the houthis are trying to use the media to make their case we'll talk about the print press the editor of The Daily Mirror Alison Phillips is going to step down and need more financial pressure on its owner reach plus gladiators reboot was a huge success on Saturday night.

We got to talk about it.

Will look at what this tells us about the staying power of linear TV but first of all as you may one of her.

They've been too important royal stories this afternoon first Kensington Palace said the Princess of Wales and had planned abdominal surgery at a private hospital in London

And then we were told by Buckingham Palace that King Charles the third is set to attend hospital next week for treatment for an enlarged prostate.

Let's speak to Chris Williams business editor at the Daily Telegraph crossword, do you make of the statement that Kensington Palace put out a story like all the family stories is a collision of the public interest because their constitutional role and what the public interest because of their status as celebrities.

You can kind of see a difference between the statement about the King and the state without pay into the level of detail that given about their health and what the problem is and BBC iPlayer in the coming days that the traditional Media the Legacy Media the institutional mean you will respect the request for privacy around the Prince of Wales Seamaster Spectre online and that something for the palace to kind of managed in the coming days and acknowledge that pressure within the statement by saying look we know you're going to be wondering why the

Wales in hospital, but then asking for privacy.

Do you think that's a realistic request and the media environment in which we all live? It's an interesting one for them for them, because they create a vacuum on social media that will be filled as I say.

I think the newspapers and television use more respect that but the social media won't this is Abbie Watson senior MI analyst at the research organisation Enders analysis Abbey do the royals do the stories continue to drive media consumption as they traditionally have seen you for the days.

Obviously news about the Royal in 10-years to generate traffic and a dedicated section.

Abby and Christmas Day Nursery on the media show we're going to talk to you about the print press in the UK more broadly a little bit later in the programme.

Thank you very much indeed to both of you, but before then we can talk about Yemen because recent days the UK and us have carried out airstrikes against houthi rebel positions in Yemen and we go back across the last few weeks houthi Rebels have carried out a number of a tax on shipping in the sea and we want to understand both the media environment within Yemen but also how we cover this military action where it's just about impossible for foreign journalists to get inside Yemen talking to his arm who's in Yemen conflict analyst and former journalist his life of this from Washington DC and Hannah Porter is an independent researcher whose with me show studio Hannah if I could start with you.

How would you categorise the the media environment in Yemen the environment and highly polarised so in the North

Is under houthi control the houthis have almost entire control over the media sphere and they shut down most independent news stations or opposition stations as soon as they took over 14 in the rest of the country which is government held and also held by the southern satisfaction.

There are numerous news organizations, but they're also very polarised so it is hard to find the Independent journalism outlets in the m intermediate outlets however, there are many very talented young man journalist throughout the country, but it is just very difficult for them to report object or to receive the funds necessary to to do their work and one of the most common forms of Media that people consume.

Well it depends on and the party that is producing that media for the houthis.

They prefer television news as well as poetry and poetry is one of yeah.

It's one of their most well-known forms of propaganda and need.

Quite successful actually and those times would be recorded would be filmed or they would be distributed in text form well both, so you can find them across social media in text form in MP3 form.has music videos so the houthis publicise their propaganda through these poems and actually hire poets to to write for them and they're very effective so I actually I was in Yemen back in October but in government hold areas and even some of the programme Roman soldiers who are ostensibly the houthis enemies listening to houthi poetry because it is that catchy and that enjoyable is a very effective form of propaganda and even seen on on xand on Instagram and on tiktok the some people in in London in the west at sharing these music videos and so it's very far in this has been a huge propaganda PR success for the houthis and since since.

47 attacks and ready to replace bring it home to talk with this Hisham you were based in in Yemen but you were detained in 2018 and 5 months in detention tell us about that experience and also your experience of trying to be an activist and journalist within the control areas.

Thank you for helping me.

It's very important the media landscape any event when I was back and you're only allowed to quickly criticise on.a.bus been doing in German you're allowed to criticise a few these are very few independent voices don't left inside salon to control areas and I try to highlight.

What was happening in controlling the narrative papers in Sara and in control and manage to sort out all the other remaining journalists.

Country and because of that because of going against the type basically then pick me up and about what time is referring to examine is basically war songs Morrisons are quite common in and use we also used verses from the Quran we also used and history of language and distinct language to Yemen to tell stories in the past things from Eden thousand years ago and we've use this as it's quite popular Union it's moved to now social media, but people when they go to catch news on the socialised wondering I can't a wonder in a family gathering such a very popular mechanisms and metaphor position.

Can I ask you talk about how these?

The songs might refer to events or stories from hundreds of years ago, but would new poems and new songs be created to pass on particular perspectives on current situation, so what's happening in the Red Sea or such as what's happened with the u.s.

And UK airstrikes.

They basically say we were the vanguards of the Muslim nation or 1000 years we left the campaigns alongside the Prophet Muhammad and because of that we are Warriors and we will not be the third and we can create new victories.

They listen to the narrative and try to Bolster mentioning inciting their history and how that basically will sort out their future, so that is part of the year experience within houthi controlled areas of Yemen let's bring in NIC Robertson CNN international diplomatic editor whose life of this from Israel Nick you spoke with us a few weeks ago about.

Changes of covering what's happening in Gaza thank you for coming back on again.

I'd like to ask you a similar question.

How do you at CNN go about covering the ramifications of this Western military in Yemen given that you can't be there for a couple of options reproaching front channels within the internationally recognised government for that wouldn't give you access to he controlled areas and when we when we use that sort of access before even when you get there.

It's not easy travel isn't easy security isn't easy you know you'll end up being in the potentially vulnerable situation otherwise colleagues have come perhaps even more potentially treacherous ways l Nadal across the Red Sea from Africa and then coming to Aiden that way again.

I give your break and and that has.

Security implications with it.

You know medical care in Yemen is not particularly good, so if you're a journalist and you get hurt and injured dead and then that's a very serious scenario the other thing that's what's on at the moment that we've explored and I'm sure colleagues in other news organizations will explode which is going along with some of the time security operations that are operating for the civilian vessels for the commercial vessels in the Red Sea and the News organisation in that way of courses u l Jodeci for for over a week and you may or may not get a report out of it at the end of the day and and these days.

You know news organisations to don't have huge numbers of people to let one of them go for you know for a week or so when a time so it's very very difficult to get access and obviously getting a visa Through The Who

Getting access through the hoof is present challenges not impossible, but typically has a very very challenge difficult lengthy process same question to you really Hannah how do you try and gauge what the houthis are doing in the media? What stories that the west of telling about their action are reaching M&S or whether that's not happening at so the thing is are very willing to advertise a lot of their actions.

So if we see for example the targeting of vessels in the Red Sea the houthis themselves will report on that are very happy to boast about these attacks.

So when we see that within the framework of justifying within the framework of justifying them absolutely so the real problem or I would say the primary problem is not simply disinformation or misinformation but propaganda, so we see the houthis report accurately on specific events but nav.

Biased way, so it's easy to monitor in away their actions, but it's always going to be through their lessons.

It's a form of propaganda.

That can't necessarily be trusted when it's something that unclear whether or not it's actually to for example.

There was in a strike in a dollar governor a few days ago somewhere saying it was an airstrike by the US others were saying it was a houthi attack.

This is something that is very to verify verify from afar and often times we have to rely on open-source intelligence experts to look at the missile.

That was used to look at any and Dad and that regard to your describing the information the houthis of putting into the public domain where the memory consumption of the consumption elsewhere in the regional in the world, but I wonder about direct interaction with the houthis.

Do they have media representatives, so you can contact and ask for a statement was it possible to have some type of working relationship either when you were there.

Activist and journalist in Yemen or now trying to cover gammon from a far they do have not actually I'm place and organised I have a whole ministry of each ring has its own spokesperson.

You have official spokesperson that you have the supreme council and he has his own office and that was just on the BBC just last week and you have a person as well and you also have this sample of fixers Instagram if you being monitored by the houthis the whole time and I will dictate mechanic questions you can ask and what a responses you received the also take in charge of.

People you get to route 11 always reporting things when operations a successful operations are being carried out by the hoodies that they will not be Mum just about that and this is part of confusion.

Will you go on there? Just like to bring in it from CNN because I'm interested in your describing these officials who joined this can interact with who represent different sections of the houthis Nick would deal directly with houthi Rebels and try to get a response in trying to get access to territory or to understand the motivation of their actions or would you just not have anything to do with them? They were the instances just a couple of days ago that we referring to here where there were reports of USS strikes and usually the Pentagon USA

Pretty quick about stating what they've done and in those cases, they haven't stated that they done anything we approach the British mod need to find out if they had been response for the strikes that would be claimed by the hutus and we also reached out to the houthis as well to try to get clarification there, so we will try to reach out to the Taxman and as we discussed here.

They're spokesman, when they have a success or something.

I specifically want to communicate really put out that video very quickly the master came the day after those strikes was a very big example that perhaps 100000 people hard to count them from a distance then off to be by satellite imagery as well.

Have a huge Rally and the centre of the capital so they communicate effectively but it but to challenge you know this is this is the frustration and difficulty.

You never return list you really want to be there on the ground to be able to see it and asks questions face-to-face and just have a better sense of the texture of the answer and the credibility of what you what you're saying and what's been told you that that that that is anybody tough.

Thanks very much indeed to you.

Thanks to Hannah him.

I jumped in do you want to make a very quick point before we move onto next door.

Just one quick point currently there are basically as a West against the odds of the Muslims and there's a very dangerous when Alex resonating well with the local population so decorating a very right environment for extremist basically get more followers and that's just try and we don't intervene soon.

Inshallah.

We will have a problem with the reason I may see Hannah Porter and Nick Roberts

Very much to all three of you won't stay with me on the media show Abbie Watson from and analysis and Chris Williams business editor of The Daily Telegraph and there were two things I'm hoping to discuss with the with the two of you Chris all the announcement that Alison Phillips is going to be standing down as editor of The Daily Mirror shortly tell us that story and big tabloid of course a big job within you came into broader Dynamics doesn't it? Yeah, I mean absolutely the mirror 1 x 2 most powerful newspaper in Britain that's no longer the case and reach the company that owns that is going through some pretty tough times falling revenue across its portfolio, which includes dozens of regional titles as well and it is cutting hundreds of jobs as year and Alison Phillips has taken the decision to take voluntary redundancy would just break strawberry decision newspaper editor, but it appears you decided but the undercut so deep that she can't carry on and I'm looking at some of all staff email sent by The Reach chief.

Executive Jim Mullen which

By the press Gazette and he said there's no plans for further cuts does he said the 700 job cuts of the last year leave the business and it's like quote structured for our digitally LED future, what does that mean in practical terms the famous newspapers which reach owns not just the Daily Mirror but there are others to none of this is any disrespect me and works there.

They work very hard, but the reality of reaches the fireworks at home.

They turn out 10s door is a day which are repeated across our titles has very reporters on the ground these days.

They are the other dimension is he said we're going page impressions what we need value online and that's what they are pursuing a very aggressively because that's how the model works or doesn't work and it's pretty tough but but I suppose the question here is Abby weather all of those page impressions can be turned into an adequate income to keep a business of this size turning.

Is that your renting audience from the forms and what happened this year and is a Facebook deprioritized news when you get when you get them from the model for newspapers explain what you play rented from the platforms.

What does that mean in practical terms that means that you've got people coming through to your website Facebook Instagram LinkedIn whatever and what Facebook have done if you're going to see if you have these stories on your newsfeed and I was reading the report by the reuters Institute for the study of journalism a few days ago saying that the number of referrals and social media to new site says has gone down quite significantly which plays in to the point that you're making.

What's happening at reach? We must also talked about the Daily Telegraph not just the Daily Telegraph all of the publications within the Telegraph group in the middle of this cos you're covering it and you're also looking at the organisation.

How is that when the story is also your employer and it's unusual experience.

I'll say that the same time someone covered my long time.

It's a fascinating story and four people you haven't followed every twist and turn just explain the background to they send appointment with the reaching at this moment so I'll previous owners with the Barclay family they hits and find the trouble the bank stepped in and to control the newspaper in the meantime the Barclay family found a new lender to lender money that lender is based in the UAE have left the money repay the bank and the lender would like to take control of the Telegraph and why lol that's playing out.

We're waiting for Ofcom to take a position on whether the

Proposed purchases ok to go ahead there might be some people listening thing.

I didn't know Ofcom got involved in in what print and digital and normal it normally doesn't we don't day today.

We're not regulated by but there are special laws around the ownership of newspapers in this country that protect the public interest in free expression and the accurate presentation of news so what I'm doing is looking at whether this transaction this new owner would have represent any kind of threats of those things it's looking at what protection can be put in place but ultimate decision to approve this deal is in the hands of the Abbey's you're watching this player.

Are you surprised? How much money the the Telegraph is potentially going to be bought for the fact that these Legacy brands and Legacy organisations command huge sums the price tag that we thought that red button is more than we probably expected.

Figure music for hands around 600 million and billion in the early 2000s what happened as they been able to handle a question and just finally Chris when is this get resolved is it possible to even answer that question so I'll come with you to report by the end of this month.

I don't think you'll get a instant then Lucy Friday as long as she wants to consider what they say.

They possibly referrals and competition markets authority after that.

So it could be several months till ask you did you watch gladiators on Saturday no Abbey no to knows I did know was one of quite a few people who did and we can't finish.

Play without talking a little bit about that famous programme coming back this time on the BBC now.

So far is significant and sizable nostalgia hit for some of us watching gladiators return of course it was famous for being on ITV now.

It's back on the BBC and millions and millions of people watched it live in a David Brown TV critic at the radio Times David there a few eyebrows raise when the BBC tried to decided to do this, but so far it looks like it's working out absolutely yeah, and I think it was really can't reschedule part of the BBC put it out in early January when everyone's broke is too cold to go out.

We want to come to keep that celebratory christmassy feeling going and we want something that brings us all together.

What's the generations in Gladiators certainly seem to do that? What are the risks for a for a broadcast to turn into a format that is thought of very fondly but it's from a time.

Yeah, I mean there is a term for this which is microwave TV where they kind of reheat a pre-existing format.

I haven't heard that before I can only get you so far.

I have to look at Fraser which has beloved in its original in Coronation Street Lee lacklustre, when it came back at the end of last year, but with gladiators.

I think what was really smart was that they cast it well, so that it had a kind of pantomime feel to it.

There was always the question is who is going to be the successor to wolf the big villain from the original show and I think it really did give you two people to boo opening episode you had Legend Who describe themselves as a cross between Gandhi and David Hasselhoff and you have viper who scold so consistently throughout the whole hour.

Shiny spandex suit with a delicate like he was trying maybe a little bit too hard to take On The Wolfman full but perhaps I'm overthinking these thing is my question for you.

Though is whether we can draw broad conclusions about the health of Saturday night TV or linear TV From This Moment or perhaps.

It's just a one-off which doesn't necessarily tell us about the state of how we consume TV more broadly viewing figures and you can see that say Mr Bates vs.

The post office that got around 4 million on it overnight figures that supposed to be kind of watched it on the evening.

It was broadcast.

It's an overall audience ITV acts as well 10 million similar with the traitors.

You know you got 3 million on the night and then 6 million overall so it's kind of showing that the interest is spark.

Evening and then people kind of going to find out more about it on the catch up and then maybe coming back to terrestrial to watch it is interesting with the traitors actually is that you have to watch it on the night you can't watch it in on the iPlayer and that's the kind of you know generate this fear of missing out in a people have to be there in the moment.

What to get stayed in comment on social media and Chris from the Telegraph as you're listening to David presuming all of the big businesses involved in the TV industry.

I tried of work out these viewer habits because it informs how they spend their money.

I mean absolutely it so that's what you talk about the risk of this is also the safety and as well.

You know this is relatively low because you know that they've been tried before it work before but what work 30 years ago was 25 years ago.

The necessarily not necessarily if you're the person signing off the chat then and you know it looks like a better bet than a brand new thing so that's that's the kind of mine that was becoming more common across across film and TV use a lot.

We all sing a lot more sequels and remakes and all that kind of stuff is much more common than it used to be and that's a sign of business pressure.

I think alright just the thing that in January and February were more inclined to sit down as a family and watch television is it traditionally a good time for TV ratings for escapist? Yeah? It's no surprise that Death in Paradise often comes back in January you want to do is what you gonna TV something that's meant to snow in depressing.

We want somewhere.

That's my in escapist and yeah been looking for that emotional dopamine hit I think thank you very much indeed David Petronas David Brown from the radio times we also heard from Abbie Watson from Enders analysis Chris Williams from the Daily Telegraph Nick Robinson from CNN reporter and independent researchers specialising in Yemen and we heard from Alan Macy a Yemeni conflict analyst you can listen to this edition of the media show as ever on BBC sounds, but for me and the team for now.

Bye bye.

I'm back with season 2 of things fell apart a chauffeur BBC Radio 4 The Origin stories of the culture Wars this time around the stories of the Battlefront than golf course during lockdown stories twisted turn so each one ends with the explosion of a new far-reaching cultural you tell me and my nephew had superhuman strength if you tell me that he didn't feel any pain well.

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