Read this: How to cover a general election

When The Inbetweeners came out people being so nasty about my weight what is it really like to be famous the Minute podcast I'll hear about the highs and lows of things from Guess like Emily atack Frances and Daisy May Cooper and I just thought I've got no idea what I'm doing here.

How to be in the spotlight with me right then the job.

It is so fun and it listens on BBC sounds BBC sounds music Radio podcasts, this is the media show from BBC Radio 4 to arrive at the scene of the missile strike on a hospital in Kiev and stop reporting and started helping we've got to talk about the election our guests will unpack how the media covered the campaign and election night itself.

Get details and where the party spent their money and then Media campaigns and hear how lobby journalists are refreshing their contacts as a new set of MPs comes to Westminster and we're not just live UK politics in France marine depends national rally had a disappointing night in the second round of the parliamentary elections while left wing parties made major gains will discuss what language should be using to describe parties towards each end of the political spectrum.

We going to hear from Ukraine oz katerji is a freelance reporter for Good Morning Britain and monsters.

He's been working there since Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022 this week.

He was one of the first reporters on the scene after a children's hospital in Kiev was head after Russia launch.

The missile strikes against cities across the country and Oz Jones's now.

Thank you very much for your time Oz tell us about when you arrived at the scene of this attack.

Yeah, I'm sorry I've heard I could hear this strike from my apartment, but I had an appointment that I had to keep so I didn't go immediately there.

It's only when I guess what it's been hit that I cancelled where was doing a night went immediately down to children's hospital because I'd known the hospital because I've reported at the beginning of the war I was there with John Sweeney former BBC my former colleagues and being interviewed the hospital so it was you know it was immediately I knew exactly where that was I went down there and get I was absolutely stunned shot by when I saw it was almost seemed inconceivable of the place that I've been before looks like this now it was but they're already a lot of people there and had made it Darren you know the first responders already in full.

Call Chloe at that point so you know you know it was absolutely clear in my mind that it was a deliberate attack on a hospital the one saving grace would have been that they were not responded immediately to the action so that hopefully might have you know that helped to rescue people that might not have made it otherwise in those first moments after you arrived as were you able to get very close to the hospital building doing the the police and the local military had until to setup Corden's to help the first responders at that point it was just telling everyone was there still the doctors were you know still in a state of total shark bait begun the process of trying to dig people out.

You know before the firefighters and someone to come and see that.

Time I drive firefighters already arrived, so but you know again it was everyone was pitching in all of the you know some of the doctor's had blood all over themselves as they are helping to move some of the Rubble away, you say everyone was pitching in you arrived at that seen as a reporter as you have arrived at many scenes during this conflict at what point did you decide the actually the reporting needed to be secondary that you needed to help well there were so many people on the same, but there's no internet connection so I had to go away further away to get the internet connection so I can send the file back to TVP world and Polish TV Channel Islands before you like to do that had to go away so I went away and I came back.

I did the live broadcast by then there were you know I don't know it's difficult to count the crowd but they were probably around 2000 or more.

On the scene and it was like people chain linking supplies in and rubble away and you know there was already you know photographers videographers everywhere iPad file my broadcast another than you know walking around and taking photos and putting on social media.

I just thought it seems redundant when there are so many people here.

You know pitching in I don't want to give the impression that I was anyway to do with the first responders who are professionals who were trying to pull people out of rubble but there was lots of work to be done.

You know sleeping the glass bring the big bags of rubble on to dump trucks, so there loads of people pitching in and I just thought maybe it's better just to do that then then take a few photos for social media the stories already out there and you know really to see more important at the time when you were taking the decision to to join in with those helping.

Did you just take that decision in the moment?

Stop and think ok.

I'm doing something that is unusual for a journalist who is reporting on an event.

I don't know it at that moment.

It's kind of redundant reporting at Fylde Ltd for the for the afternoon, so I just thought I could get stuck in and you know how people say they were you know what's the mask been offered to anyone who wanted to let you know as I said they would like the people that really felt like period was responding to this in the way that you know if he wasn't around with the Blitz happen, but you've had a lot about the Blitz spirit and the kind of you know the kind of that thing United the nation in Defiance against the Nazi and this kind of felt like you were witnessing you know something from another another century almost it.

Was it was you know a remarkable thing to do.

Report on and then you know to be able to do a Small Part helping me some of the bags of rubble when you had finished helping move those bags of rubble and doing whatever else you would do.

Did you then revert to reporting revert to capturing details from the seen that you wanted to pass on the media outlets you work for yeah.

I mean I had to go back back to do doing later on in the evening so I went home and I washed went back out and carried on you know it's the second time.

I've done that because the first time was in Greece is reporting on the arrivals the migrant arrivals from boats coming from Turkey and you know you film people coming off both but you can only get so much footage of people.

Do you like that people that need help here so you you put your camera down and you go and help people and I don't I don't think that's unusual in journalism really I think we're all human to the end of the day.

Make a sound like I did anything the most of you would have doing that same situation because we all just want to help each other.

I think I'm sure there are many people listening to you very much empathy with the decisions that you took and I saw on social media people reacting to some of the post that you put on x very much support of the decision that you took has anyone raised any concerns with you saying no this isn't for a journalist to turn both report on a story and help people caught up in a story.

I'm sure I'm sure people could argue about for much longer than 10-minutes on this on this show you know I'll leave it at that.

I try my best to do objective reporting but I don't I don't make any for caring about the people that I report on at all and finally Oz when you were reporting from that seen were you able to get information from the Ukrainian authorities.

All they so focused on health.

Caught up in this the briefing the press on on their actions their recovery actions and their ability to help those caught up in this they not with able to breathe you so look at it must be said that the kind of Media operations the government has his really you know open almost open-source.

Everyone has their own telegram channel immediately immediately by the wires the process between that station and being released in it being out there for journalists is instantaneous, so really are at the government has learnt through the course of the war how to do this and it's you know it's never a problem hearing directly from the official themselves.

Thank you very much indeed for talking to her.

So she say that Russia denies targeting the hospital saying it has been hit by Fragments of the Ukrainian Air Defence missile Ukraine said found remnants of a Russian cruise missile.

And Timothy writer military expert and analysts old.bbc verify that the missile speed involved in the the the hospital was consistent and I quote with an air breathing land attack cruise missile.

We are now going to turn though to the general election and take a closer.

Look at how the media covered the campaign Janice are some commentators have argued spend too little time on proper policy analysis and far too much time obsessing over poles and political drama as Roger Mosey former senior BBC executive the kind of trivia the alienates voters Roger Mosey is here as you're welcome to the media show I wonder first just what you mean by trivia.

What did India spend too long on in your view people work very hard because all channels to do engaging content during the election, but I think when you look back on it the question is did it do enough.

Really big themes were going to be facing this Parliament which things like climate change prison reform pensions education.

We had a lot about D-Day we have lost the betting scandal perfectly reportable stories.

They are important stories, but it's a balance about how much you do about personalities and poles and if you look at the end, there was always through in the media about some will the reform party overtake the Tories will the Liberal Democrats become official opposition which happened but acres of are Simon newspaper.

We spent on that as against the things we really will affect us about our schools our homes our education.

You wanted more of the more Thorney policy areas and you mention poles and do you think did Poland become a distraction? Do you think was it wrong to go so hard on those poles thornden narrative.

Pulsa formed in narrative in many election campaigns and probably most premature sleep in 2015 when the whole Focus was on a hung Parliament again.

It's so which was a Tory majority and I made brexit referendum soap the polls have framed election campaigns unhelpfully and even in 2016 with the brexit referendum campaign probably the prison through that was that remained were going to win and leave was never taken seriously and turn this did not asking enough questions about what we would look like so suddenly we wake up the morning after Anna partitions.

Don't know what's going to happen, but the media haven't really ask them about it.

I think it's only seen it now labour have probably properly and potentially radical prisons minister Mr Tim son, but do you know he's going to do that anybody really ask questions about penal reform Justice reform the court system is oh, it's a kind of blank check for the politicians.

So you're holding holding the journalist feet to the fire I guess my question as well as how much responsibility the political parties playing this mean.

I know through the campaign.

Ifs was saying that both parties for example where in a conspiracy of Silence on the economic realities facing the countries that was one example where politicians didn't want to talk about it and how did the journalist change that can it cause choose what they talk about but equally the media can decipher it's going to be climate change day on the BBC and I'm going to ask questions about that and Channel 4 famous in 2019 and did empty chair up.

Did they have some sort of melting blockade so you can do it and you know sometimes you hear this the top of the news the Tories couldn't get away from the betting scandal today worse because Lisa talking and asking you about the betting scandal and in save shouting at them.

Ring about the betting scandal Prime Minister they could see what about food banks Prime Minister or some other question it's not asking to go soft.

It's just saying in a campaign you need a variety of topics and ideally before election and during the campaign you need a sense of what a future government is actually going to do as opposed to what the polls say might happen, please stay with us, but I do want to bring in Harriet line.

The deputy political editor of The Daily Mail Harriet just just I'm interested in your take on Rogers criticism that the media focused too much on trivia.

Not enough on those policy areas in terms of what ended up being at seen by the public but behind the scenes absolutely were asking those questions.

I've been asking questions about prisons migration of the health system and the answers came with that one.

Isn't he didn't want to talk about it bluntly and secondly.

It's probably because this was really fun horse race.

And that meant but neither party with released during each other on there, so it wasn't really really coming clean and what they were going to do and then we went bit of a stalemate and that's it.

Sorry.

I just wanted to ask when it came to you.

So you're saying that you wanted to write a story about Prison policy but apart from that was in the manifesto.

You won't get any more details that what you mean.

Yeah exactly and I think if you have any interviews during the election campaign and that's true.

Love them as well and apartments.

So there wasn't the access to some of those people and while you my number with the switch off camera just for prints reporters.

They're answered word kind of sound like that.

We already knew and very unwell.

Text you when you get one question is kind of newspaper huddles each one question very hard to actually get into detail about policy and I think that's a problem when you took the TV debate so quick that actually you can't really get into detail and get your no sound Bites and that's just incredibly frustrating as a journalist.

Let's talk about something else is another way to look at this which is it something that you have Roger's mentioning.

We will mention the best thing scandal.

I suppose there are stories like that, but actually people could argue that the story that speak to character to values it has because they the D-Day story did the same man and that is that an argument for why they were actually important to journalism and Journal this campaign and that was the right decision.

I think so, I think both of those are incredibly important stories.

I think you can perhaps.

It's just a little bit in the media, but it really cut through to the public and it's an eye of the weather weather be explained by the public my friends talking about talking about public could grass them and yes people made the like this that it was it was quite telling of the character and character in both of those instances and to give space in an emotional things which you know campaign missteps with the betting on obviously nothing about it, but they are telling me you don't want to be controlled by the narrative reporting on probiotics things like that would happen which are out of our control actually make for a better story.

What's your reaction to what you've heard from Harriet however the BBC is supposed to be better than everybody else in the sense.

It's supposed to do the stories which the rest of the market doesn't do and for me.

I love you too.

Low point was when we had both Mel stride and Liz Kendall being interviewed great lengths about the ethics of betting when they are the pensions spokespeople their parties and you do and I think this light shine Facebook announcement Today programme did reflected the fact that actually know what pensions are going to matter in this polymer coming up much more than the betting scandal so scandal day one and even day to buy day 5.

I think it's over done.

I'm just going to say the BBC told us rather than merely deciding what we think they ought to know.

At the BBC ask people what matters in their lives and over the past 5 weeks nearly 13000 people contact the BBC by your voice your vote telling me about issues.

They'd like explored touch their lives and that initiative cover housing crisis social care climate change and the NHS a month many other things and it is definitely worth saying that rolls was involved in making reports as part of that your voice your vote initiatives that bring into a conversation someone we've been speaking to regularly during the election campaign most recently when I was in Nottingham ahead of a head-to-head that debate between Rishi Sunak and secure Dominic ring is professor of political communication at Loughborough University and author of weekly reports on media coverage that are issued throughout election period is a project that's been run during every St 1992 back on the media.

Show thank you very much indeed for your time.

I wonder what your conclusions are with reference to policy and how much time the media.

Policy versus other aspects of the election campaign discussion with Harry and Roger or I would say that in this campaign there was a noticeable check-in process coverage from the low 30s in 2017 to 2019 to 37% this time which is a significant increase however, it's also worth noting because we have been doing the project project.

Oh now going back to 2010 and 2015 process was about 40 so actually quite a lot then going on at this.

I want a meaning by process is yeah substantive policy issues on policy issues meaning Spain meaning the interest around party selections in particular in this campaign which is the biggest shoe and also the post got a lot of attention as they do in elections although it must be said after some of the difficulties encountered in 2015 and 2017 and in the brexit referendum the journey.

Away, but they've noticeably rain brace that kind of aspects of your horse race coverage in this particular campaign and I know that you called this campaign the tax campaign Dominic tell us why use that yeah, well tax was the current issue to brexit in 2017 and 2019 it was the issue that got the most got the most attention and I'm thinking about you know you came up in the first head to head to bed between the two leaders when they're on their own and Rishi Sunak my day allegation.

You should follow it up obviously in the Press about the £2,000 tax hike that labour would mean for you and your families and then in response level came back with quite an effective line.

It wasn't just labour party as well said this person is facing the tax burden highest in 70 years and that was interesting report having that also cut through as well, but it may be issue really quite the dominant.

The key substantive policy debate in this campaign and you found this to be the most anti-tory Media campaign or aunty Dora media and any election you covered since what's a long time? Yeah, well another issue that came up directly related to this was a course standards.

We had sleazy 1997.

We have the expenses scandal of the follow-up to the expansion of the DJ tobacco and it's not quite as it was certainly a few aurora and then more especially gambling is already referred to and also the racism surrounding some of the reform candidates and that makes stand it's quite a specific issue, and what that's heading to interesting.

It was criticism of the Conservatives just started in the second week were tracking the first wait for prison labour.

This is the present talking about and then that was maintained and they carried on particular is the gambling scandal is Rodger said went on for 5 days and in the

It was really quite emergency never can issue, and it was very gentle the Conservatives and the coverage did the covers that individual part is an individual translate to vote share on the night.

Can you directly try that no, I mean we need to talk to her colleagues in the British election study and look at you know what I would say is that Nigel Farage succeeded in gaining and maintaining for a place throughout this campaign that's after Mr Sunak miss the storm that's quite an interesting thing giving it wasn't a leader when I see the election was announced and he maintained that momentum.

I mean it was the sort of levels not seen since Nick Clegg in 2010 which famously you know it was quite Mania so you can perhaps campaign onion rolls that attention that take me to the end was favourable but he did succeed in getting their message across and gaining a lot of her time and indeed print quotes as well.

How much roughly University how the media looked on tick on this campaign next on the media show let's look at how the party is the political parties used Media during their effort to convince voters to support them Sam Jeffers is executive director of who targets me it's organisation that works to improve transparency in online political advertising Sam welcome the media show as you look across the parties help us understand the different ways.

They use social media.

Obviously the way the we are most interested in is the way they use paid online ads on Google to to reach audiences.

You know we saw a significant uptick in spending this campaign even with the Tories have less money than you might have expected for it for an election campaign where to set the timetable labour spent 6 million on housing in the 22nd of May overall the party spent about 11 million on digital.

Really big part of what they do these days and where are they spending that money so they spend it across Facebook Instagram Google in terms of search advertising.

What's the money on YouTube sick leave for the labour party places like Spotify on election day, so if you listen to Spotify playlists you know just in the office that day a little voice over from labour would have popped up and an hour telling you to go out and vote for the labour party.

We went into the campaign on tiktok in particular.

Have you been able to assess how the parties use that you know the reform was most popular on tiktok they had a pre-existing presents their content seem to to travel pretty well on their labour labour for you know how much quicker growth of their channel than the Tories and I'm still not persuaded that this translated directly to many votes are not to reach is that many voters who are persuadable in the right places.

All sorts of things but I think it's because it has a different style and tone to other forms of campaigning online also quite reasonable questions at the beginning of the campaign about the roles that play in the deepfakes could play in favour or against the political parties did that feel relevant vs.

The paid digital content that you've been monitoring and I think you know I think personally with confident and wouldn't it? Didn't seem like something that campaigns themselves would ever ever jump onto it didn't feel like an election.

I think it's like an election where there is a lot of benefit to outside influence trying to trying to do anything quite difficult to use the platform.

Don't really want you to use them having a really good is why I didn't make a match with appearance in in the selection and yeah, it was it was much more predictable expensive type of campaigning you you would normally get from political parties and candidates.

Roger Mosey former senior BBC News executive Roger every time we go into an election campaign vs.

The one before there's an expectation that digital content paid for or not paid for his going to be more influential not just on photos but on how the media goes about covering the campaign.

What was your assessment of the influence of digital media this time it was strong, but this is where mainstream Media still has a row because a lot of things have played very big on social media were actually things originating from debates or interviews that were done on the BBC TV Sky and actually it wasn't one where he did say.

I'm not next but since the digital media to me did not seem to set a difference agenda for two genders really much more together and Sam finally from you your mission at who targets me is for transparency in how the political parties are spending their money on digital content is it transparent?

Easy to find out where the money is going and it's better than it was obviously the elections of 2016 trump and brexit.

I think it's the platforms to do a lot more in terms of its far from perfect a very inconsistent of the way they do it.

There's not much opportunity to check how they're doing it today pop up everything and I mention Spotify Spotify doesn't actually polish my data about political advertising and so on so you know we're convinced that needs to be some sort of standard set in law around campaigning to come update or election rules to to make this work OK everybody but I want to focus on Bristol and look in detail at 1 cities Media experience of the election.

We're going to look at how the national Media covered it full disclosure I was reporting from the Bristol count on the night we also examined in the local media coverage and also parties approach.

Debt Priyanka is a reporter with the Bristol cable.

Priyanka thanks so much for coming on the programme you were at the Bristol election count I think we crossed.

Give us a sense from your perspective and what the atmosphere was like there.

Yeah, I do remember seeing you Katie you had a very snazzy green blazer on a farm Ember yeah.

I think Bristol central wolves quite electric.

I don't know if you if you feel that as well.

It was definitely the one that was most attended by press and I think because of how neck and it has been whether it would go labour or green.

It was definitely one that the everyone have their ion Bristol was obviously one of four seats that the Green Party had set their sights on in the end it all of those for seats but yeah, Bristol central was certainly the key target because Bristol central just explain two people.

They're sitting at labour MP thing and debonair who was to get her seat get a seat in the cabinet as culture secretary she was all stood by the Cult leader of the Green Party Carla Denyer IT support for me to say thanks for saying my suit my jacket was snazzy it was green but not in.

That the greens were going to take it and they did with a very strong showing but but did how did it feel when you were reporting on the ground at Bristol Bristol central is a new constituency we used to have for now.

We have five so the demographics of it.

We're not something that studies necessarily with sitting quite comfortably on like a 9-year stretch as MP I think she was popular among certain courses definitely unpopular amongst others but she did have anything 30000 the George is that looked in losing it went against the general trend of the Nile definitely have lost it by not just the

Small amount by 10000 different so I think was really surprising actually my colleague Matthew Edwards did the the constituency profile in Bristol central and I honestly think most of the way through the campaign pools and what we could do on the ground it seemed really neck and neck like I couldn't I don't think I could call it either way and I spoke to canvas both parties who were saying that the reaction was remixed on the doorstep, so the only moment that I felt like it would go in the green favour was actually on the night itself and that was purely just because I sent a kind of quiet confidence in the greens in Bristol for everyone at the country are rats, which was Bristol central Bristol South so quite a lot of the Green Party members from Bristol were there and they just seem to be a slightly more jubilant atmosphere and we'll talk a bit more about the account, but I'm interested in terms of how you covered it in the run-up in the campaign.

What you observed about you know the green party's campaign their local campaign strategy compared with labels, did you did you notice any differences a huge difference actually I mean it is well.

Where is it is well documented that they call a Denier spent more on Facebook as the most any other MP in the country.

So I think I'm online there campaign was very present but also in the campaign was very present talking about the way that the table went about coverage that we went to a lot of Hastings in the city and we focused on a lot of issues as a way into talking about the different policy platforms for the standing on the Deathly approve.

That's good.

I'm going to do with those policies.

The perfect constituencies in Bristol as well and we also looked at it through the lens of various issues, so there was a deaf and disabled hustings that we went to and we covered and the week of what bmp4 saying there was speaking to a point about the difference in the campaign.

I think the scent I got was at the Manpower behind the Green Party bigger their team of canvases their general presents in the city and crucially and I think this really did make an impact locally is at the Green Party were always very willing to us at the cable and similar from other local Media in the city very present very proactive and accommodating and request except journalists request so in attending hustings.

Where is throughout this whole campaign I and a lot of the other local Media were barely able to get to thing and Eminem forever reason.

I think she's

Save this out maybe for nationals only but they were often instances in the city where labour candidates with cancel on Hastings on the day often with two of spurious reasons and a lot more hostile, and a lot more expensive to press right now and I'm sure they would say that they put up a good fight and absolutely intended and and and did try to do right by the constituents of Bristol central, but all really interesting.

Thank you so much and it was nice to see you on the night even just across the room and say thank you in Bristol I was in Norfolk and King's Lynn to be precise in the leisure centre where the counts for North West Norfolk and south West Norfolk we're going on just want to how I was struck that I could stand very close to where the boats were being counted as we're on the series of badminton courts and they said the Joneses can't go across this line which I think was part of a badminton Road basketball court.

A couple of m back from the counting agents you on behalf of the parties standing right next to the tables and jot down the counts the votes as they're being there be encountered with you able to get as close.

Yes, and no not with cameras and not without a shower and I have covered loads of elections and done loads of counts as staying up all night and it's really exciting but this was the first one.

I've ever covered where we will not allowed film in the place where Bristol central was counting for usually as you said it's counted in a big sports all they might be lots of different constituencies are counting in the same place, but you get access this was in a school and Academy in Bristol where to of the counts were going on a long corridor and we were allowed access to that.

We're honest walkway up a Barbican film down but the key one that we cared about was a close one between the green army Wonderland in the returning officer said absolutely not with cameras.

You can come in if it's sorted by the Press Office which I've never had happened before and obviously I was going to outrage at the time but we don't get access.

Get to see what was happening and what was it outside their representatives of the parties were able to come and find us and talk to us about it.

We did of course get a sense pretty early and what was going on because sometimes people ask but during the night in after as well when you're going on there and saying we feel like it's going in this Direction how do you know when the answer is almost always that you've spoken to some of the counting agents and you can't quote them directly but they'll give indication of what they're tallying up on their clipboard.

Which of course is not 100% accurate and they don't claim it is but it does give you a direction of travel that is worth paying attention to these people making his standing looking at the counters and then making notes of every vote and the things evening if we could see in South West Norfolk was that reform was getting a lot of those don't know how significant that would be we didn't know it would mean reform would win but it was clear that that was going to be a factor in whether Liz truss was going to be able to hold onto a seat and of course that because you did really you you were one of the

The night when you buy the came along quite late, but yeah, Liz truss Last by not very many votes over 600 votes and we didn't find that out too well into the morning well after 6, but even close to when it was announced.

We didn't know which way it was going to go when I was moving between the leisure centre the hallway the count was going on and outside to see if Liz truss has arrived and it just after 6 and to one side with the monster raving loony party candidate having a cigarette.

Just a few weeks and then they was Terry Jeremy who was the Labour Party candidate and he was looking a bit of paper and thinking is he practising a speech because we had no confirmation of the result it turned out he was practising a speech but we didn't know at the time that you're both be staying in an empty car park with a couple of the candidates and a couple of other officials thinking this is all quite low key at the moment, but of course in the middle of this massive political moment and when did you find?

About the results you broke what you thought with capping on these and so we have been given indications.

It was tight by a number of the parties all through the night but we didn't know which was going and then one of the election official not from a party one of the official spoke to a colleague of hours Chris Gibson who I was working with and said no she's definitely lost and Chris said well.

You know can we go on air and say that and he showed Chris and message that is why I said turn on the TV the story of the night is about to happen.

Well.

We wouldn't go and see this trusted definitely lost the one on here and said there's a strong indication that Liz truss head really pretty clear, but they do that with all the towns and label the brief me about but you got the interview with her and then followed her which people might have seen on the news or online or ever between the hall and outside and was outside.

Trust arrived and I asked a couple of questions and she declined to answer them so I said would it be possible to speak to you after the decoration and she said yes absolutely happy to do that and I was walking just behind her and she went into the whole she walked up onto the stage took a place alongside the candidates the result was announced.

There was a speech from the the labour candidate who won and then there's Trust came off the off the stair said to me.

I need to go and speak to a couple of people quickly and then go to a word came back and and spoke to me and and answer questions for a minute or so and I really wanted to know whether she had a message to photos of the Tory party or to the country and so as she departed the hall.

I walked alongside her asking variations on that on that question but she declined to answer that one definitely made for good television and that was a very exciting night elections for the likes of you and me are very excited and hopefully many more people out there but clearly.

Key question now is what happens next and that's what we want to discuss Harriet line.

You're still here deputy political editor at the Daily Mail because I guess what we want to talk about is in our lobby is responds to a new government and a new cohort of MPs in the House of Commons do you have to make a lot of I guess you have to make a lot of new introductions of how are you going about doing that? I had the Works ages ago because you have a sense that label was going to win the last year.

I certainly been increasing number of Labour MPs it was pretty clear that we were going to end up at some point this year and therefore it's coming because they are a job be able to pick up the phone.

And so you need contacts across all the parties and but yes certainly I do fixing on labour and there are so many new faces to learn you actually interesting names that you can try and work out.

Who's who in the comments and asking questions and that sort of companion with pictures of do they still have that where you can go to a huge book at home and look through that I'm assuming.

It's a bit more digital now.

I think I'm just asking the questions as well as around the estate and have you got a sense of the Labour Party and then I get individual labour MPs

Is to the mail in terms of how much they want you need you clearly on both sides, it's got a transactional relationship.

Isn't they need you you need them, but what the what are you picking up in Westminster tribal than it looks from the outside you know each other and but this way with MPs and MPs get that they realise that even if your newspaper might not be on your side.

It makes sense to you.

Have a good heart and you're wrong with you.

So you know I think I'm being left tribal is the smart way to get to get the things that they care about.

Good coverage and so hopefully they will be in the election campaign ultimately ask people conservative also in this number of Labour MPs elected in and there will be no you said across that side and what we saw at the end of the conservative government was a sort of leaking culture that got lot better and better for journalist is how I would certainly worse and worse for the Conservatives and I just wondered now what your observing in terms of the leaking culture when it comes I suppose comparing the shadow cabinet and what came out of that, what can you babe not concerned compared with the current cabinet and what's being l emanating from there is anything.

No, it's a lot.

He is United around I'm sure that the disciplinary policy.

You will come down at some point but yes they are entitled operation, but you wouldn't like that changed a bit of luck for you absolutely outlines.

Everybody glad to have the Daily Mail thanks so much for going on so we spent a good section of the programme talk about UK politics for the next few minutes.

Let's talk about French politics and the issue that a shock election result raises for the French media as you may have seen the far-right national rally based a surprise David in the second round of parliamentary elections the weekend after one the first round it was actually a left-wing Alliance that rhyme with a manual McDonald's on Sunday Alliance coming second the national rally, but actually third let's begin with Victor gorilla.

News reporter for politico, thank you very much for joining us not many people saw this result coming.

Why do you think the media failed to predict it but I think it's a lot of different actors of the first one is that this result was completely in contradiction with the polling we have received during the week between the first and second round which means that if the projections that were be made every day from you know the Sunday of the first round of the Sunday as they were showing at the National rally was maybe losing a little bit of ground, but they were still clear addition to you are at least be first in the national assembly is not hold an absolute majority.

So obviously that was probably the first sword of Factor which light has just the fact that little bit off the second thing is that obviously the national rally has been I'm a trend upward momentum.

Few years and it sort of felt like this was maybe a bit of accommodating point are there was a lot of confusion about wire makrama decided to call a snap election Stephen with his own rank because there was widespread expectation normally Media even in French Society even within the political class that I thought I was going to happen in some form of the other was it going to be a complete trying for the majority and a stable government would have been more about me and then maybe some of them to beat about if other lawmakers should be working with the national rally that was that was the question, but it's definitely next vacation and they will win and you have heard of discussing the different Media strategies of UK political parties.

I wonder how you would explain to us the different approach is the media that the different parties in France take.

Absolutely it all depends.

I'm also what media you're talking about the media landscaping in France is quite fragmented.

You know me here tomorrow and non-partisan approach.

So we obviously have talks discussions attempt to better understand these strategies of all three major political for the summer and be for right we have all of our father Media landscape which is more clearly in line with one side with the other so that impact how each can decide to interact with the different Media guys agents but overall the weather has been kind of outstanding for a few years now that the national rally car has try us us being more credible more professional you're ready to go instead of chasing the Old emerge as a hateful party and unprofessional party and that has also included a strategy to.

You know if you're more professional in their Media Appearances you know things including like just bring since being very clearly spoken pudding for really only if you just to avoid having any sort of communication mess up so it definitely has been very important to them to try and focus their m chatterjee and I wonder Victor we've tired about changing the political strategies between the first round of the second round.

Could you see a shift and how French Media approaching this as the possibility of a far-right victory came interview question the first time that the four actually made the runoff was in 2021 years ago.

I was Merino pants for the controversial comedian.

Had a policy which was to you never invite any representative of the devil you know.

Presenter Mr Forest with the for making games and essentially forming a group of Parliament becoming sort of a force to reckon wedding in terms of material reality and the fact that they have not only an important influence on the population of the party which has received the most votes in elections, but even and by making process and the fact that the controller in local administration so Media kind of hard to adaptor that reality into certain extent treat them as well.

Just one of the three big Block that we have in the current French political landscape of the ottomans take into account that we have a part of the process which has been taken over by you know people who have a conservative or are you know hard raid?

Is a brilliant introduction but we have another guess that would like to bring into our discussion in the University of London and I am also study the media strategies of populist politicians.

Just let's get some definitions.

What does the term populous mean to you? I'm so glad you're asking because this is has been such a half term for many years now that everybody's using it meaning very different things so we keep talking over each other about very different political creatures basically and actually over the years eve in Sherwood populism should mean and what's the rate of Venetian some approached it as Currys magic politicians politicians considered populist, are they thought about people who have just simplistic or lettering economic policy, but actually over the past few years political scientist called cashmere made this definition that has become quite a consensus.

Really means so it's very simple.

It's about politicians parties are movements that look at society and divide Society into two groups and two groups only so we are not a collection and mix collection of individuals and communities who have different interests and and once but there are two groups one is the real people people and the other is the enemies of the people and they are labelled as correctly who are undermining.

They are anti Patriots they are traitors all that these are the two options of the people doing something that Rings true hero in Britain resident of the past but in terms of how those populist parties approach the medium styles of them.

How do they use the media end up being in the second group more often than not and the language for it might be different the content might be different base.

The context in which the populist party operate so you have a term like at the Liberal Media the familiar with which is used in the US and sometimes hear you have prestige switches the term that is being used in India and the Philippines you have the line price in Germany but basically the idea is the saying the structure of the argument is the same and the elites chain based on whether they support or criticise the populist so how does the press how can the press then report for example this information without amplifier unit for journalist covering someone who calls you your colleagues your profession your workplace enemies of the people and not only that but also in many cases in partially is extremely difficult and when are you due to cover it and amplify the actual auntie Media campaign is a big question cos many people you talk to actually hear the worst.

They've heard about journalists in the media when you cover it if you cover it critically, are you actually proving the point? Are you actually that? You are the Enemy of the population by criticising these politicians and what I found in my research.

Which is concerning a thing is that many journalist who are whether to the TV and impartiality in artistic taking journalistic.

Norms seriously and applying all sorts of strategies when they are under populist attack trying to prove them wrong trying to show that if I am accused of being a Lefty traitor.

I'll do whatever I can to show that I'm not electric traitor know how do you do that? That's a great question itself and then people not inviting certain interviewees.

Maybe not covering certain topics may be expressing different kind of criticisms and so this is and you've already used this.

Analysis that relies on phrases you've been talking about populism and giving his definitions, but there are other phrases used in the analysis of how the media intersects with certain parts of the political spectrum, let's bring Roger Mosey back in for senior executive BBC News and Roger how helpful or unhelpful.

Do you think it is to have particular phrases like populist off alright or radical left and there are others 24th you to use to help describe the different political parties.

They may be covering just heard very clearly.

It's difficult and in this program with us far-right rally in France we haven't used for left, but new popular front because actually there and moderates in that but equally there a common is some people who is definitely on the far left, so I think you need to try to be and I also if you work in a British context you have to somehow describe the BNP you I would say are extreme far-right reform who are probably populist.

Right people in the Conservative Party Like brother man who are writer of a populist right so I think the best thing you can do is be very careful about labelling and try to identify policies and what they arguing Thorpe rather than just a label on which can sometimes be a barrier to understanding and those challenges that Rodger is describing doc2pdf ski, do you think it would be helpful of the media could agree on phrases that it is going to use you think that's even realistic.

Is that a naive suggestion that we talk about Content Store not using labels as just ways to to discredit someone but actually to refer to the Essence or not called populist parties that you don't like but actually look at what it means to make sure we have content in these words.

Otherwise it is pretty useless what I think is that if you look at the bigger picture.

We have cytomx changes in the media.

In the UK and elsewhere some of which is driven by the populace campaign against the media and how he changes the whole infrastructure for news and incentives and different news outlet different responses to these attacks and what we see with populist politicians and parties especially when they are in power, but often times it starts even before that is that they divided the Divide Society into these loyalist Media outlets that are with us and they are the real people they they are the they are democracy and everyone else who criticises the pocket and they are not part of the people.

I'm not your messages last question the last dying seconds is it always right? Do you think to speak to popular politicians as the media we've got about 15 seconds make question well famously when Nick Griffin and which National Party had seats in the European Parliament they paid on Question Time and that leads the unravelling of the BMP so by being put in a spot.

The policies were challenged with others and we got rid of them.

Thank goodness.

Oh, yeah, I think it's worth so much for coming on the program as well, Dr panienski and Dominic ring.

Thank you so much to all of you for coming on the programme.

Yes, we also heard from Victor gorilla for a politics reporter at politico Europe 2 oz cat from filmmaker speaking from Ukraine anti-tank TV reporter with the Bristol cable from Harriet line from the Daily Mail and Sam Jeffers the founder of who targets me but sadly that is all.

We've got time for now quick reminder if you want to listen back to this edition of the media show or indeed any other every single one of them is available on BBC sounds but for now from both of us.

Bye bye bye in Ireland when you're a big part of it is isolation this preparation to get ready for battle at to be victorious.

Presenter of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4 and I'm here to tell you about the very special Castaway the world heavyweight boxing champion Anthony Joshua showing affection you think that's amazing.

I've loved you want to know the cuddle tonight this time to eat.

I love to hunt that's just in my nature Anthony Joshua listen.