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hello welcome to the media podcast think of us as your very own Media club on today show it's summer of Sport but behind the big numbers is linear still on the programme what's going on at strictly and more on that skydance paramount deal people really read beyond the headlines a reasonable case suggest we should give readers more and in the media quiz we would back on a busy week for Lisa Nandy weeks to kiss Thomas I don't know plans to change the way the BBC funded during the next Parliament with many of the broadcaster saying there's going to be some more for between now and 2027 but we commit the BBC and we're committed to a licencing arrangements the circulating another investor signing up the Telegraph Media Group that CVC Capital Partners who currently in the Six Nations tournament and English

Ship rugby I could the private equity firm at the broadsheet and Spectator magazine to its portfolio presented her last show for the Today programme on Thursday her 6-years on Radio 4 flagship showroom marked by touching to be by Kirsty Wark who was selfish just left BBC2 Newsnight well, we're not going anywhere although we are back to pause for the summer and more on that later, but with me in London escape to the villa in Marseille on show me by PJ master hello hello before you get away Ireland getting away, but yeah lots of lots of reports and things coming out been writing a bit about AI and I even last week spoke on BBC Breakfast the election actually about the bridgerton effect ok about the election so obviously important things.

Bridgerton according to Netflix has contributed or is about to contribute 275 million to the UK economy and so the topic being discussed was like how brands are aligning themselves to culture so you know Primark I've just bought a range of bridgerton clothes and tea pots and people are going out more for afternoon apparently, so we were talking about that and also makeup makeup on bridgerton is a big thing and there are lots of makeup trends, which people are following their droves and so brush your sales up 20% that was my start of The Day from hi.

How are you all good? Thanks.

How has have all the TV networks been covering the trump drama The Assassination attempt or we just moved on?

Old news in Waterworld coverage, I mean this whole assassination attempt has taken over the news coverage each party is trying to blame the other nobody understand why this guy did it he was a registered Republican but of course you give him my democratic fundraiser is so who knows what he was up to it's also because of the Republican convention is right on right now and no walkie and trump appeared within our band Aid over here Stephen Colbert and you know Jimmy Kimmel these are kind of the show people get their news from in America this is a late night.

Talk shows and they've been rather.

I would say genteel when they're in there coverage of the assassination attempt to everyone for saying vials of this kind shouldn't shouldn't be tolerated.

You know that kind of thing shouldn't be tall really buying the course so it shouldn't be tolerated.

Testing coverage was John Stuart again is a late night.

Talk show host he had his get a Bill O'Reilly who you may not know it's a big Fox News there was a big Fox News hannity and tucker Carlson he's very right wing and they are spotted about it at the bigger picture of violence in the US and has the world's gone crazy and thumbs up the fact it on the discourse in America right now.

It's very violent in so I received were going to give violence and it's a little scary was going on right now and the state of the discovery is where to buy in my step down having between Jon Stewart Bill O'Reilly that sort of gold charms aren't they and I know it's a bit of a bit of grief from sort of the more progressive side of America because he's not necessarily super fighting their side and we saw.

When with wizard he said with a Biden carries on where you've got people like the the pod Rose I saw there was some MBC about the American guys.

I mean I'm not in a knot in a great place and even when this comes out with her some some more bad news.

Can you know you're in deep water episode and not something you would see on on the right side when they are you behind there man.

You know he is all the years older.

He's got his own.

He's never been a great speaker ok? This is not news.

He's always had a stair mirrors.

You know he's never been good at

He's a good leader in the sense of he's he's somebody who tries to make people carburettors and get stuff done and that is not I wouldn't call President Trump a compromise person so it's going to be very interesting a finchdean fight back here the summer of TV support as well and truly began with dementia euros final bringing people the answer of 20.2 million across the BBC and ITV split between the BBC and ITV and when there are these moments and jumps on the numbers.

What are the split was I can't remember the precise numbers but I think the final of the finals viewing was about the quarter of it was too ITV and the rest was BBC2 a recollection 1.3 million watch the euros final on BBC1 and 3.9 million on ITV just always the case.

These are the things which but it's a big moment people turn to.

BBC you know obviously there's the kind of do you want adverts or not and then there's the do you like Gary Lineker or not those of the questions that I think people ask themselves also you know but there are big advertising slots obviously available on ITV and some you know quite quite interesting big brands.

You know advertising using you know footballers and all about I think that however you know these big side of tentpole TV moments we got the Olympics coming up obviously do disguise in a way.

You know what's going on at the linear broadcasters.

Obviously broadcast a video on demand is increasing its doing fairly well.

That's doing well with advertising but that kind of doesn't disguise the fact that they have been job cuts at Channel 4 you know profits are down ITV but I think the biggest story is be more interesting stories about what's going to happen with a broadcaster video on demand.

All content is being put there and if you look at the Olympics I was trying to figure out you know the schedule of what was on where on the BBC a lot of that will be online and on iPlayer but there are the rights or the rights holder to Discovery allowed to have one extra channel way he gets of everything online in case with discovering dominating Olympics in Europe huge amounts of rides.

It just change the way that the people are able to consume these big events.

It does change the way people consume these big events because that's the way people want to consume Isabel I mean I agree Jane we've got this is not a circle called problem.

This is a structure change you know the way people are actually consuming quote TV and quotes to look at say for example channel four's decision they going to stream all the Paralympics coverage on their YouTube channel for the

Right, so you know there's a pivot to figuring out how to do streaming and is Jane said you know how the broadcasters get it to a broadcast avadavat as we get another new afternoon.

We have told her ears around how they're all going to move in to be voted how fast is really important in what kind of contents are going to put on there.

Are they going to Premier stuff on their beaver platform before there any your broadcast channel and quote yes for the most part and they could be experimenting with it.

I would say that all of the broadcasters now.

I'm putting my TV which is a very slow a doctor.

I'll be bothered have now realised this is the future they have to figure out how to make this work because this is where the viewership is going in so that's where the money is going to have to go because they advertised as they want to bring the advertisers the audience.

So they have to figure out how to make that experienced as a PIP delivered.

And me and over the internet over your phone when ever experienced that good for the view are where the advertisers are not gonna like that and obviously the BBC from their perspective take that and make sure they're in your eyes.

It's so it snow this whole.

How do you make the beaver universe work what content works? How are you going to get the rights to contact you need in the window? You need to make it is a huge questions for the broadcasters.

I'm going to talk about something like this amazing hits but at the same time lot of people about what you on tomorrow that brings people together for or reality shows and Puma of signed up as per the main sponsor on Discovery in Big Brother advertises.

They love the moment big brand advertising the moment if you look at Super Bowl in the US if you look at Christmas in the UK is an important moment but primarily.

You know it's a big reach moment for your your Brand and if you can't achieve big reach.

You know you're going to go and look at other platforms and ways to do that of b v a commercial bodies you know the cost is more person reached and you have the benefits of premium environments newer contents partially that partially that but also targeting so the targeting technology is a superior because you know the platform knows who you are and knows a bit about you.

So there is a premium.

That's paid for that, but it's you know it's a fast-changing environment and you know in a way you have to look at TV as a whole and then the subset of that is linear or by God but you know big moments are very few and far between I think although the that you know the height up, but it's something that Netflix for example does really well coming back to Britain for example.

They make that they market that is.

Non-linear exactly TV news all down in June for colour total viewing during an election period do you think rolling uses finally Road well? It's just election for Teague many people will turn to television when is a big event is James said and the election is a bigger in the UK it so much computer compartmentalize a shorter period of intense the thing about election coverage in the US that it goes on and on and on and on the run-up to the election is years not weeks in the US just had 6 weeks to verify with the Democrats

If we can you put that back, I take it with her and terms of the the whole discourse bit but I think yes I mean in a rolling news is a difficult I mean if you look at the we rolling vs.

Developed the shriller you are whatever side of the fence you're on liberal or conservative.

That's better if you in a minute because you're going to get you going to be speaking to the cry.

Just a little bit like when you get into the Echo Chambers so a lot of the rolling news channels have become you no more extreme in there in there whenever whichever part of the spectrum there on in order to catch you just fight with everything else really news channels do better when there is a big news event be a war and fascination attempt you know something so yes, it is again another one of those difficult areas have had it goes up because down where the advertisers Want To Be They Want To Be A Rollin whose child if they want to be on the internet or something.

Make easier better to a different more targeted audience so that that sort of those of the economics the company to play it into the all the rolling news channels as well.

I mean some things that us channels have done in the UK now for Sky News of really pushed into having personality lead hours GB news the stunning quite well for their audience having a personal personality hours people turn to be channels.

When is a big moment but those do yeah, and I also think there is evidence that people turn to their own kind of Rolling use weather on other platforms like you know where you you get version of Rolling use from people you follow from people you don't follow crazy conspiracy.

Theorist who are making up their own stuff and you think that for many is actually a replacement for parts more trustworthy environments.

I have a normal consumer obviously a present but I've got a list of.

Twitter next to the trump 70 people that big posters and when something happens.

I haven't got like polluting my my feet all the time but I can drive in a super serve some trump in the ultimate success, but it does face another major scandal Big Show's become targets of dancers of now.

I left the line this year was allegations made about the conduct was training less celebrities.

What happened to well.

It's super interesting this story cos actually Richard Coles yes, they referred to in the times as you know the The Dark Heart of strictly and you know it is a very competitive environment so obviously a bit of pushing will go on but who knows what happened behind closed doors.

So now what happened is the BBC introducing I guess I kind of chaperone for both the celebrities taking part and that the professional dancer.

They calling them welfare produce is ultimately they just keeping an eye on what's going on.

I guess maybe it's slightly surprising.

They haven't done that before I get someone at some point when 12 full-time staff members yeah, but this isn't an unusual kind of story if you look at what happened on Big Brother and love Island they've had to you know accommodate psychologists in people's I said I support the welfare of the people who take part because of lots of you know bad things that have happened.

You wouldn't necessarily think it would happen on Strictly but I guess there's another thing about strictly which is slightly kind of has it.

Day you know it's a format which has existed for many many years and it's kind of tried and tested tested and a bit corny if if your wife yeah absolutely but you know that there is this kind of dark underbelly is is is super interesting and it's about it.

You know there's lots of locks and yeah, you know subsidise alcohol probably so I'm sure that's the case, but we've got to hear about this affect the BBC's reputation.

You know the right thing by stepping in younger people are demanding a different environment.

I know that my own career.

You know a lot of things happened that we know I think it's to happen now these people would have been trimmed out of the organization, but I should have just went with it.

Yeah, that was that was the culture.

You know that was the culture in the 70s in the 80s in a in a male-dominated Newsroom forever sex so I do think there's a different standard now.

I think that one dancer who who is you know said there was abusive and physically whenever people you know they want to win.

They have any on dancing is a physical pursuit.

I mean you have to do it straight up your back.

You know move your tuition and you know to put your shoulders out get that arm straight is a lot of physicality involved in that so how people interpret different behaviours if you're trying to make something work.

I think is also part of it now.

I'm not trying to be in apologies for somebody who is you know bordering on bullying bullying or whatever but on the other hand it is you have to have context so I think that the

Ex is always important of these kind of whatever you want to call the chaperones or whatever just watch the store because inversely wherever different period or maybe it's fortunately wearing a very different period I mean it's a good thing but it's going to take time to for particularly people who grow up in a different generation 2 can't get their arms around this in my opinion it also gives gives rise to a whole load of new the job description doesn't it's a celebrity welfare producer.

We've seen intimacy coordinators in movies where there are sex scenes where they have to be kind of hand but all of these all of these jobs are kind of basically people who was of watching and guiding you know.

To what the right thing to do is and I'm not sure quite who decides what the right thing is always the line is drawn and produces channels have to know that if you want these thoughts of shows that we could spend the cash exactly and give jobs to you know Patmore junior people runners in the in the industry.

Who want you no mounts takeover continues with caramel now given a month to consider other offers this and the Telegraph I feel like we talk about each week is the ongoing discussion.

Are you gonna take out of looks like sky dancer pretty much done it.

As you say this is quite I mean it you think this is about top property.

I mean paramount right think of my god.

You've got the studio.

You've had all those this is this is not some little company that nobody's ever heard of and yet if you look back over the past 405 years they've lost a huge amount of market.

Cap I mean they understood pressure as they try to pivot to streaming which we were talking about before you know.

How do you actually make it and streaming world when you're coming up against everyone from Netflix to Amazon to YouTube to whoever apple big tech company so I think this is going to happen now.

I think Skylanders is probably the right buyer will see with David Allison does and about David else in the course.

He's he's the son of Larry Ellison who founded the company called Oracle

Billionaire son is there somebody who's and is a turkey guy? I mean it is a guy with likes you no messing around with programming code and stuff, so I think that was interesting about this deal if it does go through it looks like it.

Well.

Is that you know? What will you do next? What is the what is going to be the play and you could look at it then say worried.

I have an outcome like we do with time 1-hour well, which was a complete explosion and didn't work right.

We had a tech company the time ago was desert attack company taking over a timewarner which is considered an old line media company and just messing it up or it's going to be or it's going to be a wind.

It'll be more like her.

Let's say I guess you know you have a tech person running a bunch of Old Lion Legacy broadcast just trying to figure out how to get into streaming in the US which is Rahul was so my bed.

Hopefully, I'll see will have enough advisors to figure out how to what's a mess the two kinds of approaches because the Tech approach that is business.

Please sort of Legacy Media pressure the business which talks about Talent and content in story and all that kind of stuff are very different and so it's in every company that has these kind of you have this picture of face-off between these two different kinds of but say cultures and so will be very soon to see what happens going for will they be one of the big players that that's really hope so they got their got a lot of content but we'll see content makers grow their streaming service more content back on what they do with someone else does a lot of things that could happen.

I would suggest that like all the other global Street

Paramount will cut back on international acquisitions.

They're going to cut back on local programming.

They're going into programs that have a more global appeal because of course that's how you're going to make your money if you're a global platform now inside of that there's no one's be certain platforms have have better local connections than others so for example if you look at Warner Brothers Discovery the max which now they're calling my streaming streaming service in most markets, are there still saying that they want to do local acquisition studies will help local producers producers local local shows that then hopefully we'll have some kind of future.

Let's say unworkable platform.

Phone numbers on this idea of producing local content just for local markets is not going to be a big winner because they got global platforms and they're obviously tried to make money.

So what is a Dude commissioning well if you're a local player your again back to your usual suspects in the UK will be the BBC iTV Channel 4 and it was all those guys are competing with the global platforms an interesting moment in terms of you know how producers let's say navigate this landscape where they have to define the platinum or platforms in some cases cause a lot more couple of days going on between broadcasters and platforms to make the show that they want and how they can also take the show that they weren't having the voice of they want given the economics of will show that Very British or very French make it.

On the international stage now, we've had examples where they have right.

So it's not always the case.

We're always really local show it will never make it a level work outside the Country but sometimes it really does work so so again.

This is it for a producer? It's a slice it again as always very complicated figure had a pitch.

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For some more immediate news Dale Vince has lost his libel case against the Daily Mail where is image was used against and how do you separate story about another labour donor accused of sexual harassment the headline and it was June last year actually was labourer pays £100,000 to sex harassment donner are right.

They were talking about an entirely separate labour donor call David Sarah with the picture of Dale Dale Vince understandably took out a case against associated newspapers for defamation and you know the case was actually quite interesting and it has been thrown out because it's so so did newspapers made made the case that they were arguing.

Pathetical reader should have read the whole peace and quiet is that readers who read only part of an article and not reasonable readers now my argument is that none of us will flick through Twitter / x at the speed of light you look at comments on news articles on clear nobody's read them because they make the most idiotic that comment and you know it might be in the days of you know sitting down in your comfy armchair and reading a paper newspaper.

You might have come through everything and everyone have time, but we don't anymore we fleet through things we scan read them and I think in this case the law is wrong and clearly the latest using it for clickbait a terrible completely.

Read everything through from beginning to end because that's not true.

It's sort of the letter of the law is not what other people may think I'm here to figure that out.

You know if you're if you're on that side of the case you're going woo hoo you know great.

Thank you very much for renal or capitalise a bit outdated this Gene is a very succinctly who just your many people just read headlines now.

I think he's Facebook somebody actually asked this now before you repost.

Are you sure you want to be posted to have you read it yet? You've got to have a court case because of freedom of speech and all of that quite different here in the UK we just been great British about this is the US version much.

No, I don't think it's well.

I don't think it's much better.

Is it is better than my two different you can say a lot more.

Let's a negative saying is about people before you get into the of libel action another one of the reasons why people want to have their reliable cases done in Britain is because they think they're going to have a stronger be able to defend themselves better.

So I you know this is a very different system, but this but I do think you're not a reasonable reader give me retard I think in the age of the internet.

We just we just moved on quickly yeah and by the way down Vince is going to appeal a judge's decision obviously because it's crazy crazy talk.

Maybe I could be one of those segments in-market segment consumers may be reasonable.

I want to be a reasonable reader it's been a busy week for the new culture secretary.

Can you guess where she's been from the following clues buzzing with your names if you know the answer so Kate your say Kate James is she was taking seriously the BBC's plans to include advertising on third-party podcast apps.

Jane Jane was it the rest of politics and reducing interference in how media companies are run by broadcasters pretty well Kate's licence fee on slightly steadier ground.

Oh, I think I think so much some champagne was toasted blue me yes, you know the fact that she's actually said we're committed to I think it's 2027 she said yeah and and you know she said like we're not were very positive all about the BBC start having open mind she should have said we shouldn't be telling the BBC what had a report.

We should just be no face by regulating the amount of things like that.

Is like a new wind is blowing into government after a lot of chillwind have been blowing over the BBC so I think the BBC is so much more that was interesting about her view as she says ok.

I want us to be responsive to the public and he ok.

Does that mean? What does that mean exactly is it ever going to have more you know and little pawz sort of going to put a pole and find out what people like to be busy or not my view on this is always you don't know how much you use the BBC in till suddenly.

You don't have that sort of the way.

I think about it and having grown up in America and London the Britain for over 35 years.

You know I've seen both and believed to protect the BBC you want something there that is you know producing when it's a balance news is producing a high-quality programs.

It's produce.

Local audiences all this kind of stuff you want that you definitely want that because if you if you make it completely you know market-driven be no no no subsidy with your car tax whatever you want to call it.

You're an end up with a very different me landscape which is what we've got the US which doesn't have that strong centre of the BBC information for training of everything so I'm a group on the BBC in so I'm very happy to hear that.

She was this week as well.

Obviously knows about the BBC in the first week for everyone's complaining about them to you when they're giving you a kicking over some things that you thought I thought was a licence fee changes no she spoken about the the one of the options being that it's neutralised or potentially meet you guys.

I run a bit like John Lewis for the Co-op

Owned by a larger group of people who knows where they will all be members at some point you know to me 2027 that she doesn't seem that far away and of course we are also looking at you know the headline of 2030 when theoretically you know Tim Davie has spoken about broadcast TV might see you know all delivered by IP so you know there are a lot of changes ahead and actually you know it's only a couple of years away if you think about it.

It is right over to where did she say that she will move the BBC to Wigan change my dog was so funny comedy.

South appealing to children and adults and it's very good on comic timing a fellow Wigan she's from Wigan and you know she showed as you say easy in week 1, but you know a good sense of humour, but also that she's on top of the brief some amazing public affairs wrangling for the poor people who was here Lisa Nandy say the government will be more Southgate and less Gove change a Telegraph

Can you play the end of the culture Wars which is nice that's over that's that's good congratulations the dog to move the media podcast to Wigan love to do that.

Thank you very much.

Yes, we've just released a reporter can't are called The Brand inclusion index.

Which is a survey we did in 23000 people in 18 countries all about that attitudes to how brands are diverse and inclusive and one of the things that we know is that you know.

Important to a lot of people whatever be the chatter is elsewhere about three quarters of people say that brands diversity inclusion reputation influences their purchase decisions are over this is exactly exactly so but we also produced an index, so we did a kind of ranking of the world's most inclusive brands.

We did it by country, but the top ones are Google Amazon Nike dove and McDonald's.

I doubt it will be very familiar to you because of decades they've been you know proposals of inclusive beauty standards and you know actually that was the top 1 among women you know women really like that because it means you can be beautiful whoever you are an offer investment or size of company or brand just very big for that if there were those other for company exactly exactly and you know it shows that you know.

The discussion about brand purposes and where the purpose is a bit dull and we should all move towards humour or whatever actually having your underline kind of foundations in place and thinking representing your consumers or progressive stereotyped if that's appropriate for your brand is generally a good thing for business some people having some negative connotations about that sort of impact on the board why you think they did so so well.

Well.

I think is in a number of areas of to this is consumer perceptions of what they think there's brands of doing a lot of that will be about how they communicate who they choose to portray in their advertising but it's also you know people's knowledge about the kind of people that these brands hire the kind of events.

They do or how they target their advertising for example and I think you know them all that brands are seem to be doing the right thing obviously it's a debate that what the right thing exactly is.

It does benefit them, so there's no reason my brand shouldn't you know appropriately diverse and inclusive filter to have across your thoughts types of audience all that sort of content that you execute it supports in your overarching.

This is where the date is really important right because you know a lot of what has happened over the last 3040 years people have been talking and making decisions based on what they think Instinct but you know the world moves on you have to know what people are thinking you have to be in tune with them and you know corny phrase, but you have to also move at the speed of Culture so you have to understand why you're consumers are going impacts in some cases leave them, so these brands are I think using data in incredibly intelligent ways to drive?

Consumers predisposition towards buying the next time so I can't aw.com.

I hope you have a great half will keep up with what you're doing.

You can look at me as I'm broadcast I'm now commentator on Broadcast magazine and I also post on LinkedIn so that's best place to find myself.

Yeah, I'm also on LinkedIn and just check out kantar.com any thought leadership research that we've done a break will see you in a couple of months time you thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So go to the London podcast studio stop.com 25% off the code Media pod to the show you come through which Evans make sure you hit follow on your choice.

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What is success is it a healthy bank balance or a healthy work-life balance? Is it a corner office or an office around the corner at Regis we believe success is a well located Workspace that also works for your wellness is why all Regus Workspace is a designed with your work life balance in mind and why we have so many great places in so many great locations looking for a healthy work-life balance the scales in your favour visit regus.com today passport check business presentation check.

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