Read this: BBC’s Commercial Impact Under Scrutiny

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Have you heard how marketing experts total emailed it? How did the campaigns get invited into people's homes their brands getting to their customers hands and how did they build trusted relationships male has helped me Topsy and achieved tough marking targets and in total emailed it a series of interviews with successful marketers.

They tell us their stories.

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How you can get your customers attention over your competitors? They detail their experience of building Trust through Mail in a world of fake news and scams also ymail gets kept for weeks on my emails in people's undivided attention and how you can use it to your advantage so if you've ever wondered how nishma Patel Rob David digital change personality or what Martin Guru Rory Sutherland secret vs.

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It will reveal are you ready to Total email your marketing targets find out how top market is do it at market reach.co.uk ÷ total email the magic of male filbrandt to tortoise already done a James ball of the new European is here to provide an update on the programme BBC Studios and the work for hire dilemma.

Will take a to Berkeley unpicks of thorny problem for the BBC's commercial strategy all that plus the BBC pushes on with Radio 2 extra.

We speak to rival boom radio still Riley about the impact of AI and whether startup could save Genesis That's All happening in this edition of the media club locate welcome to the club today.

You've swapped your Lemsip for some Media club water.

It's great to have you here who you recommending to join the club this week.

Well Kathleen Kennedy just this week.

She is if you don't know the city 000000000 of lucasfilm long time.

He'll make her you know ET Steven Spielberg has a partner I see more of course is running Lucas which means all the Star Wars spin-off franchises Mandalorian at el, she was in town to accept.

The inaugural Richard Attenborough lecture for British green forum and what was funny about it was Sir David pakman, did the interview my love? I think they was great and so they were obviously doing a lot of reminiscing in such as I've known each other for a long time, but what I liked about what she said were two things one.

She said was you this whole thing about streaming people say what about streaming was thinking to do the business, but they do the film where we going because you know I don't really understand the business model streaming.

This is getting so it's we're making lots of content but has anybody ever going to watch all the stuff that you so much out there.

She says don't worry there will be a balance in the force for that reason alone.

We should not be welcome in anytime and James who would you like to add to the club this week, so I think I'm going to dominate Adam B end card editor.

Bylines network so quite an independent Media figure, you know they're very position does an alternative to a lot of this stuff, but he's sorted become the Moses of the exodus from Exeter to blue sky and so quite a few of us.

Have a lot of reasons to be quite grateful to because if you're moving over to blue sky they've got things called starter pack so instead of going I know who Drive possibly follow.

So this is really boring you can just clicked something and it follows everyone in the pack and so he did a sort of starter pack of unless.

They are already over there or when a good gets you a few doesn't the Followers but his was the one that got picked up by Carol Vorderman decided to move over and she put it out to her.

Just stop the rebellion Twitter followers and so I went from not having really use bluesky and having for 5000 followers to waking up with 30000 and suddenly.

Buzzard network where there isn't much of an algorithm.

It doesn't suppress links so this this amazing thing that we used to do on Twitter and put it or articles there and some people read them and they don't know call you you know in my case of AG or whatever it is quite normal people read your stuff again.

So I think you know quite a few of us in the media have that nice booster.

Thanks Jeremiah thank you.

No thank you.

I didn't that's good.

Pleased that club.

Yes, I think there is a mini club profile on blue sky see you can find us there actually and confirming it now and also so if you're not on there, I will add you on there.

It sounds like you're doing alright already.

I always want my old journalism and journalists a stop at the Guardian and observer have voted to strike for 48 h in early December in protest over efforts to sell the Sunday title to the podcasting.

Fit tortoise Media what's what's what's a strike has an impact the Guardian Guardians got a very strong has done for a long time, but it actually come close to strike action for decades.

So this is really unusual that's a real breakdown in relations of the sign of anger.

It was overwhelmingly supported as well.

I think the God you will find it very difficult to put out papers for 48 hours you can stop now you can use wires you can sort of get around it, but I think they will find a lot of discomfort at a paper like the guard even more senior managers to get it out and what I do wonder is how much they will try and use their teams out in guardian Guardian Australia which are very autonomous a lot of them.

Don't know anyone in London they are Australian jealous.

They are American journalists.

You know how much will they be trying to keep?

The website up keep that out.

I think management will have to try and put the paper out you can't sort of let it stand but the anger is real the sort of build-up is real.

It's as early as they could possibly do it so the Union is signalling in every possible way that it's not messing about these signals.

They intend to do help.

We obviously the observers on its knees for having sex something has to happen well really gonna lose job.

So they're going to get a quiet except.

They won't because it's the Guardian and this is the difficulty the Guardian works in a different economic reality every other newspaper exist to make profits for its owner the Guardians owner exists to sustain the Guardian crucially they won't and the Union knows they won't ok.

Well tortoise stable response which was pretty punchy.

They said that we want to save the Observer everyone can see it.

A path to irrelevance and probably sooner rather than later closure which is pretty pretty tough for a potential acquirer.

I mean Kate is it the life? I actually observing needs of the staff are trying to kill this offers a deal.

Will it? Will it come off the newspaper.

I mean the problem is yes, I understand the cats cats dressed as a different kind of like that and that's always been one of the strong points of the Guardian and observer, but the Observer is a shadow of its former self already everyone knows that you know they're not even didn't have it on particle covering where they used stuff from from the Guardian so it's already a shadow of its former self something has to give so they offered voluntary redundancies this summer.

I think some people took them not enough obviously to clear the man knows if there's a problem.

How do we fix this you know we can cut so that we just keep cutting until finally we end up with nothing more than we sell it to somebody who has it.

Is a tomato is going to put it behind a paywall and obviously will be a different will be a different business.

You won't be that sort of synacor.

You know you work forever and you know you ever going to get fired because you work for the Scots maybe you'll have a job.

Yes very true so BBC Studios have been told to create more IP as a result of a new report from the national Audit Office revealed that 10 of the most BBC Studios Productions of the last financial year of those 10 anyone was original i p k any guesses what that might be the one you are very very true what I think the point here is my brother point which is should BBC Studios be focusing on making money should be focusing on making IP that will make money longer term is it a short-term or long-term PCV do what we call work for hire in the television business production business.

You're basically if you're working for Netflix you work for Amazon any of these streamers you going to be basically getting a fee plus.

Maybe it's 10% is 30% looks like it's more like 15% right now.

It's not really a bar orders going to build your production company.

That's the problem about work for her.

Yeah.

I mean you're gonna get the money on you, but you're not in any IP constructors stream.

Going to give you a Netflix what's alright globally in perpetuity and if you're not showing the the show it sits on a Shelf with Gary Hadi remember that series wonderful series.

I thought didn't do so well on Netflix is sitting on the shelf.

Is it on any other strimmer anywhere know and it's a great series so so the point anyway seem like we get your trying to make money we get it was a difficult you know couple of years, but you need to be focusing on making IP then and you can then sell.

In different colours indication models different distribution models and that will be more sustainable business model for the BBC because they do like cash.

They like showing their making cash to say that be great for BBC licence by long-term IPS to the Future for them.

I mean yesterday.

It's one of those though.

It's one of those if I was the producer at BBC Studios it so well.

I never thought that I would simply just create some IP it's a great good idea really helpful cash that the rest of the Beacon use it the BBC should be taking the risks and creating a long-term iop that's where the creativity should be that's where the gamble should be that's the point of being dates broadcaster, and it's actually I think the rest of the BBC that's playing to safe and not doing that well.

That's not replace the studio should be able to just focus on profit.

Focus on picking it up to pick up the public service it believe me thinking with a good lovely idea be serious with definitely want to make it then I can let some other production company make it so that I mean that's kind of a false argument because yes, I agree with you.

They need to be making more in this is not the BBC is BBC Studios that's their production or but I think the distinction matters because the nao can only way in because it is the commercial bit and actually we doing a classic thing of trying to tell something where you got to be profitable and do this and so we do the book a room problem loads of everything on 21 organisation tell the public service do i.

P, let's Studios run like a profitable studio in stop telling me what to do if they the Promise the three letters.

BBC call it causes that independent production company obviously a lot of hassle this benefit from being associated with it, but they can't quite be competitors company because they're definitely pissing against other production companies to do things that's why they had so much for the money.

I mean thing is interesting about the report is even though the N O I was gonna slamming insane warranty leaning into more owned IP they were still delivering the about the same amount of money.

They been delivering back to BBC was your mind if they should be delivering money back to the Public Service Broadcasting yes, so it's not as if that's falling off a cliff it just hasn't gone by high in across the BBC Studios guy with fossil would argue.

I'm doing the best.

I can give him the market team does feel like it's been quite hard that like.

Flattered flattered this market is actually really quite good at a lot of commercial Studios would go yeah.

I'd have been very happy with their return at the moment like try and get an eclipse isn't the BBC itself to take a gamble on you I pee at the moment like the nao maybe should stay in its Lane a Gary Lineker has been top from the BBC's highest-paid calendar list as he is leaving Match of the Day thoughts turn to the first number two so you bought this week and she's to leave the Radio 2 Breakfast Show after 6 years on it James he did a good job.

She don't want to do it anymore and then drop Scott Mills into their does ready to appear in your radio listening at all.

It's I feel like I have to disclose no relation.

I'm when she would be competing with the person who used to be in it later.

I think Radio 2 hours are quite a debt of gratitude, but I also I don't feel like radio to do much to appeal to even ageing lesbians like me I mean and I don't think got bills really moved it to it late.

It feels a bit stuck in the doldrums of if you're on the 50 or not going to listen to you and orderly I think Radio Forth Valley GB better with my age group then Radio 2 is so Scott Mills respect the broadcaster.

Clearly has the talent to do the not and remotely inspires choice see they're very sore save solid procedural choice Star Trek site anyone, but they probably don't quite you know fine tick move on.

Make Radio 2 boring again, which was sort of connected to a Chris Evans previously and a little bit more than that Scott Mills probably unlikely to be at the same amount so maybe that's one of the reasons why the Chosen I mean you have more of you on this than me then because I think you cover radio more than I did.

What do you think? Yeah? I think I think it's a good choice.

It's your mum tattoo he can potentially deliver 20-years.

I mean I think it's this sort of dream job.

He's got a good produce ahead of him as well knows what it is and any external BBC style effects.

I think you can probably do quite a good job on it ain't the money is interesting and we'll see what that shakes Outlook later on hardly the fourth biggest person on the playlist is Greg James Radio 1 Breakfast Show hosts number 3 with two heads.

So yeah, so where we land on the money and it's nicer for the BBC to not have too many people towards the the million-pound and more or less than Greg James do you think Greg James win that show has about 50% more listeners? I think he deserves it you probably deserves it and questions for Grade has been a really want quite a long time how much longer have we got for him? It's always that rotating thing breakfast radio hugely competitive both of them could probably get far more money than a commercial network.

Do you think there was opportunity to move Greg straight from 122 maybe always hard to to jump from Radio 1 2 Radio 2 you need a bit of stuff with a bit of that.

We took over from Steve Wright and sort of written for the last 80 months or say so it's it's not as easy Greggs interesting in that you're probably be at Radio 1 for as long as you like but would you already 5-year the show on Radio 4?

Cricket podcast so he's got a lot of options and having any commercial broadcaster who would be having a question why not a woman and a man on already seen as we can have more male obviously Sara Cox drivetime and there's lots of discussion about whether she would have gone to do it.

You don't want him probably swap to Big Show at the same time and it had to sort a wobble a bit with Scott moving to the mornings.

It's great.

There's a kind of person of colour on the daytime schedule now with Trevor Nelson taking over Scott's what so bit a bit of diversity and you got Jo Whiley should have been in the early evening for your own life isn't oh yes absolutely no you've got to be really committed to go to be from that breakfast of practice at 7:01 straight out the door your way home.

We have got as well, so don't want that.

So stay with BBC in Sainsburys Radio 2 BBC been trying to launch Radio 2 extra, this is alongside some other radio launches Radio 1 anthems and BBC Radio unwind trouble though push back to the radio 2 extra initial findings in an Ofcom the BBC to go back and have another look at the people pushing backwards play me the chief executive of boom radio station for over 65s this 60% is a bit of smoke and mirrors this the way I've read it and I could be wrong.

They may come back and say no no, it's going to be here for the radio for the way are ready what it meant was 60% of the hours will be somebody who will talk in them.

I 40% of the time.

It will be nonstop music and 6.

Somebody will occasionally say something I do not think for a moment that they are proposing to have 60% of their output being yabba yabba.

They need proposals.

I think they've said the change of the major change will be the fact that we will do news bulletins.

Which are going to be simulcast from an existing source i.e.

The existing Radio 2 news bulletins that they have headline themselves as their major change that I do not believe this speech.

I think they put two bits of speech lines together and people are adding the together and getting seven or eight because they put a line about 6% of the hours will be speech and then they said will include documentaries which will be 55% music 45% speed and people are adding those two things together and thinking that this is something and it's not it will still be radio station playing the same music that boom radio please but without Commercials and with all the backing of the BBC it will not be offering any public service that that is not already in the market document.

They would obviously disagree with you.

They took a lot about that the changes in consumption and opportunities to give licence to be a better value.

Set for the money.

I thought was interesting and talking a lot about about the spin offs radio anthems and ready for your wine have launched this big discussions about the those stations and this one go on DAB next year were you surprised that they said one with the head with it at all because I've come basically said please go back in and have a look they could have gone ok with fine with Radio 1 anthems Radio 3 on wine we surprised that the two extra on the agenda.

I wasn't surprised I was disappointed.

I think we thought there's a moderate chance that they will properly think again and not do it at but we may be wanting for 1-in 5 chance they would have I think they are really going to struggle here because

Ofcom's initial view based on their proposal just to go online was that it was going to take 5% off our audience now from what I can see of the numbers are not you not you need to sit down with a wet towel around the head really and do a lot of work on it, but it off the BBC seem to think that the whole proposal will only take 10 radians that seems inordinately lowers a number to be given the similarity between boom and this Radio 2 proposal our own numbers which went into your are worth 39% ofcom's 5% for online-only would equate to 35% for the whole thing if you had dinner x 1 number, but they won't do them off comes initial number was very close to our initial number a long way away from there's an even on their number.

They say to quote them.

This proposal will significantly hamper the financial performance of boom radio even the BBC who are putting a panglossian dressing over all of this say it's going to see me hampers.

What do you think the reality is the reality is a lot worse than they might be saying in a public document but the BBC shouldn't be frozen last week.

Should it shouldn't have the ability to cater for licence be paired with your services.

You done well, but they've got a big opportunity to reach more more licence, but first of all the BBC supposedly said it's strategy was going to be visual first.

It was going to be podcast online on-demand stuff.

It will go to Lords anymore services that they had a change of heart on and seem to be going back on a on a vision that day.

Not not if all day all they're going to do is to propose services which simply out what the commercial sector is already doing free of charge to the to the licence fee payer there no no pay for what we do know is having to pay for what global or power do but they do have to pay for the BBC and the BBC is strapped for cash and shouldn't be spending it on doing stuff.

That is already being done by the commercial sector you know cos you talked about it on the shelf the massive cuts that are taking place across the board at the BBC particularly with regard to local radio and other services at a time when that's going on for them to be frittering money on on this is really quite out right before we go.

What's the next stages of this to me to this Ofcom can anyone reply? I'm sure you'll be replied to the new proposals.

There's a short window for people to say whether or not we should do.

Text or a smallest test but everybody but I think expect to do the big test but then just got to go through this about six weeks when they asked for I thought and they're not come will do a full formal review which will take most of the first half of next year which is a delightful extra 6 months of my life and David Lloyd's like spending arguing with the BBC show joy and we're back with more from James and Kate after this hello Media club, this is Patrick hear from podcast Discovery by podcast marketing company, but this week been thinking about advertising on podcasts for a spot out like this one or get the Host reading out for you.

How much are these things cost of all else? Do they really work even I taking the time to record this you might be able to get an answer to that one.

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Have you ever wondered how marketing experts total emailed it? How did the campaigns get invited into people's homes their brands get into their customers hands go today build trusted relationships male has helped many Topsy and achieved tough marketing targets and in total emailed it a series of interviews with successful marketers, they tell us their stories by the secret behind driving results with mails physicality and how you can get your customers attention over your competitors.

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This is a 17 page scroll through instead is time crossed the new series only on prime video his name.

Alex Cross where he lives in his darkest secret and when I'm done them know the truth based on characters created by James Patterson Alex Cross new series watch now only on prime video work and his what everyone's been talking about in the media club this week at the audio production Awards last night production company almost tangible began audiobooks walked away with the big prize Toria my wife of a deal between two production companies with announcement imminent mean in Australia that Kyle and Jackie O show has been dubs a failure and it's Newmarket of Melbourne dropping down to 8 ratings and losing audience compared to it's predecessors and maybe they still mileage in local radio after all my mouse parent companies invested in a new AI startup called prorate.

Write program, which aims to share revenue with publishers each time their content is used to answer a query so with me and James is this the solution needs I tend to find that the one that the journalist want to work is really the one that the public want to work.

So it might make it back yes, it's just you might do better do a good deal with where the public are now the way you want them to go this sort of snacks of trying to setup your own stream on everyone's using one already and there are places that have been signing with open AI 34% market share anthropic 24% You know this is a nice idea.

Do they have any do they have the Tech is it going to be there or is this going to be a distraction when they should be looking at the big players because copyright isn't on the industry side here.

They are going to have to.

Eden new rules or friendlier terms of Engagement with the big players and so I worry this is a distraction even if the model sounds nice.

You know I'd like this to work the sceptic in me thinks that it's really hard that even someone the size of dmgt.

It's hard for me to compete in this in this world invite.

They want me involved with the provider provider have you said is because they're going to get me part-owner as well the alarm for 3 min then cos it's a step in the sense that I mean.

It's got a good found around like it.

When was name now, but it never found his yes, he's not opening hours of the world, but the idea that they actually get a share you know pro-rata as the feeling.

You know who's who is Dylan air-con this NS is it Google is it Facebook you know who's taking their can't you know who's training blah blah? Blah? I think that immediate feeling is exclusive they just use other ones as well.

I don't see that.

This is an exclusive.

I mean your risk is just that the other do it for free behind your back because it's you.

You can't copyright facts and that's that's the killer in in this sort of deal answer to sell it all as a big is a big UK group.

Well.

It's not what's happened in America and you still see the Atlantic of signed a deal with open AI and in very American fashion at headless came out so we hate the Steele it's still went through the Atlantic like the publish those takes it was fine, but I think they'll try and plp.

Off and essentially you know I can see the logic of if you think that the AI companies will win because they are allowed to take facts ultimate if you think that win then you might take the money on offer if you think you've got enough lobbying power to actually get the government to shift on change the rules then maybe you hold out.

There are some very good public affairs people in the UK media you know this is that the ftx that they're all having conversations with each other and testing the waters with msad set but UK government will be looking and go can we get more tech investment the media investment and that will way in a bit higher higher rate in European do you think about what you're writing about? It's being snuggled up by all these people I got quite annoyed when when I sort of got this notification that open a I had scan.

You have my books and it yesterday and then I just have the classic ego figure Betty Wright ago, but at least the computer so I have that pathetic leedd, but ultimately there is a bit of me.

I worry about what it means for the industry and we want people to come to our contact we want them to read pieces in Context what we do is build that context in Buildbase connections.

That's got value and just sort of taking the deal so people don't come is bad ultimately it is what we do we take fat from all over the place and said to size tube into it and so I do worry a bit that will end up condemning what we've done for centuries and so I think we have to hit some kind of deal, but my understanding of the law is that the AI companies will win the fight that we're having now so we need to fight smarter this is this is social media companies.

How they get a coat Harry going to cope with this.

Compete giving licence.

There's no easy solution for this problem on the market for your now as we've got two what relevance does whatever we want to call the mainstream Media have in the snow world.

I mean years a good example this whole thing with this fight Tyson in one of the pork and Mike Tyson's fantastic, but he's what is e58 mean this part of this Jake Paul's like 2027, but it was a big favour on Netflix ok enough.

I think it's like 60 million current strange.

They have some title is used by the way, so they're going to have to work on that but it's

One thing is going to do for Netflix you know it building a brand of the reason.

I'm bringing it up if it goes like this became such a big story and is a YouTuber this is somebody who do you know who cares as well.

I'll people care with this guy is what are the thing is that at this event? I was at this week Jane Featherstone who you know what the splitting something else coming out for black dogs.

I think it's a new one and she was saying you know we've really got out watch out of what's going on here because you know the gen Z people are very interested in YouTube channel.

I mean these are the new tastemakers.

It's not us in the TV business were thinking about ideas these guys.

We have to figure out.

What how we do that.

She said I don't know I don't know the answer will be thinking about this the same with mainstream Media you know what is mainstream Media worth.

How do we make ourselves relevant? How we get on the right platform so people read it and as you say you don't maybe it's ok.

Because at least somebody's reading is there going to spit it out in some way shape or form, but how do we get paid for it you have you gonna get paid eventually if you don't have the new European or something like that paying you I mean it's a huge deliver.

It's not like it's going to go away where I can solve it today, but it's something that all these executives of the big Media publishing companies are struggling with three years in various patient say I think he's put it on steroids vs.

Commentary of a lot of the European came off the back of brexit and it's a sort of see a bit of a change from it being a pro rejoin to being a sort of auntie populist paper.

Is that right? Yeah? That's pretty much how we would brand it's if you look at these look at these people offering easy answers if you look at these people trying to turn you against each other we want to go we are shouting and calling this out early and you know brexit was.

Cause of that for us and we are still very proud Europeans we want to rejoin the single market that if that's a cover this week shocker reshape their care.

I mean I think we should because when pubs around it's the only other economic show in town but and you have a PC thinks that but actually it's something of a populist way even trying to go hey we're not trying to go everything mainstream is good Keir starmer is Bay love this way to go these guys had nasty and we're going to throw some elbows if you are angry about this stuff if you are an amazing about this stuff.

We are trying to call this out and you know there's not many others we are shouting out if you subscribe to us it goes on journalism that cause it as it's easier and throws elbows and right now if you're worried about populism.

There's a lot to worry about in Europe

And weirdly not many British political publications say anything about Europe no, I had a double page spread it this week's issue, or the beast and just talking about Germany and its economic collapse and it's sort of far-right politics.

You don't get to do that in the British Media very often it's so the anti populist messages there, but I'm going to be the battle for the for the next four years and longer absolutely and you look at what happened with the Washington Post and you look like with a Morning Joe and they went to see trump and their ratings dropped off the next day.

I'm in the pub about who owns who owns the media.

I think they do is far as they can figure it out.

I mean.

Can we sort of art in our little tent in a lot of people don't really care.

I think I saw certainly with the whole trump thing which is kind of America's brexit on steroids affect the rest of the world is it? You know it's people just they weren't listening to what camera was saying in terms of her policy or her.

You're very clearly articulate in careful in civil and always they want a big sloppy messy goes to the Bad Guys and I'm going to fix it then you know mass deportations and tariffs to make a murderer just didn't mean anything but resonated with if you want to call them populous.

I guess populous Atwell letter just basically one upstairs was speaking sloppy and messy.

Just got time for the media quiz which this week is entitled look-alikes.

The story best of 3 button with your names if you know the answer so James he will say James in case you'll say let's play lookalikes right question number one who sent a look to a BBC interview which are this week's James what's the other one, so obviously you're with socket.

Where was it on YouTube agree to a sit-down interview, but he didn't show up.

He sent a look alike as well.

I went but I think they cut a dog yeah.

Yeah, they're excuses at left ok question number 2 who's soundalike business resulted in the winding-up of the original this week.

Sound like business the original yes is a podcast comfortable at goldhanger, so what's that well going because I mean if you think about the kind of started is a TV involved with it, but I think a lot of the head riding a warm when you were making more money in podcast guys.

You know it's definitely I think of the right decision for them.

Ok Chris number 3, why is LeBron James suddenly a lot like James Corden

Oh ok, so far is James Corden's company involved in that.

I think help producers who is in the Maytals t-shirt has now decided that they're going to merge with another company which I think it's called spring Hills my memory in Springhill is a big company and they do lots of different things including you to influence of time television shows really good anyway, but the ideas that they want to go with scale.

They want scale.

They want to see us market and they feel that this murderer is going to help them that she both will see you at 3 for you you in the quiz that we can merge with a massive by the way, she really come back with that.

With your jealous and I am at the UK on Twitter I am James ball on blue sky and I am at the new European wherever you find that you're welcome subscribe.

I'm only right for broadcast.

I'm also 1XR they used to be to be honest.

I'm finding the times.

I can have some blue sky, thank you.

Thank you.

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What is charity events? Are we taking off on this week's run of the day in history on Monday the 14th unlikely craze on the anniversary of gold on Wednesday take your seats for the Opera that bro Beethoven on Thursday we take you on a spin through the surprising history.

Closing restaurants and on Friday Star Trek visits the Final Frontier interracial romance we discuss this and more on today in history with the retrospective 10 minutes each weekday, podcast.