Read this: The golden age of British TV is over

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You belong here next to me about to jump into the sea on an army coasteering expedition walk away from the edge or jumping and join the team that we buy your side for Life still listening you belong here now search my job.

I wasn't the meaning club on your house tonight in the club today TV producer and Provocateur Stephen curry rice healthy industry that the golden age of UK made TV is over is there anything that can be done well we ask the man himself that also on the programme.

What did this year's Christmas ad tell us about the industry at the editor of campaign Maisie McCabe is here to give us a 2025 and primer ITV and

Producer biology reports from the Frontline of fact and in the media quiz we play our own version of the traces of the media club, how do you spell lettuce to Bradford lasses in this Saturday to be added to a club membership this week, so I'm going to go for Richard brim and Martin Beverly who were too many Adam and Eve ddb.

Which one of the most successful advertising agencies of recent times and they've been out today that they're gonna stuff away and I cannot share in business.

What does exciting for the advertising industry and just sort of commercial content and brands and hopefully they can of the content of a power that want to do while well there on the contract will find out in late spring.

Unconnect is Simone Pennant MBE who is the brains behind the TV collective and she runs the programme called The breakthrough leaders cohort and she's really just his non-stop in her work and pushing people forward and really really helping mid to senior-level people in TV industry.

Really achieve their goals so she's amazing and then my other one is I know it's been a month now, but July see because he's so good at his job and his pranks that people still think that him being a dad is it one of these elaborate prank so I think he deserves it coming up Steve Wright producer of such as the Big Breakfast ex on the beach has written an article in the times this week, which has got everybody thinking.

Even welcome to the show thanks very much.

So why do you want to write this? What what do you want to really say it's it's a story that people in the TV and turn the media world sort of noun is coming for a long time what I what motivated me was the fact that the wider mainstream audience have no clue what's happening? This is all happening in Plain Sight we all know it's happening but to the viewers they turn on the TV shows to watch they don't think anything is happening and when I started hearing is going to horror stories of people who are basically working in Tesco's are working in shops.

They're doing whatever people who won awards to make fantastic films.

They can't get any work.

They can't feed the children.

They can pay their mortgage.

They have to work and if there's something going on at the way.

We'll doesn't know I need to write about it.

So strategically I thought right forget writing this for broadcast magazine or anything like that because they already know when they don't really should have admit it.

Let's write for the time.

I've got a connection there cos I do the Times radio review every so often and then and then I even thought possibly this might be to read by people in power and it was it already kicked up a storm and the culture secretary was asked about it last night a couple of ways of television and there's two that's fine and one that's in trouble just explain how you how you are basically it's very simple terms the only things that people are interested in commissioning is high and Drama which means I will sell globally it doesn't mean expensive drama necessarily or classy shows you know I mean I don't think I'll get the Crown whatever but actually what they mean by high-end is a show that can sell globally the concern in Indonesia that can sell in California that can sell in Germany not just a show that will be good on Tuesday night on ITV and then the other thing they'll commission is.

Low budget reality so you should have married at first sight type things those kind of shows that are very so trashy.

I think tickly wrong with them but too many of them means that we're not getting the middle and the middle is what's dying at the moment in the middle is essentially all the Unscripted fact and format features lifestyle daytime gardening.

You know quiz shows even comedy those other ones that people aren't necessarily commissioning and the problem with that because you know the mantra that you constantly here is bigger fewer bigger better which sounds great great when the commission says that but it's complete because it's missing out the fact that the middle is where we live as an industry the middle is what gives birth to new ideas.

It's give birth the new new presenting stars or new on-screen Talent etc.

It's very kind of joining the dots and so the middle is dying a few drama company doing ok and a few smaller companies are doing ok with relative Foreman everybody else forget it.

Open don't work at Tesco's if there is some discussion about commissioning slow down financial problems in the sector some to come back, but generally those of you that actually like the stuff isn't coming back but there's a proper structural change and simple things people are too scared to take risks and risk taking is what made Britain a global leader in in TV terms.

We had a very diverse slightly insane culture new ideas flowing all the time we created the world of factual entertainment America didn't we did that we also created the kind of reality boom you know via Holland of course, but you know what I mean the European take as much mustard of wild let's go for it.

Do think that differently the American thing is very very Richard as in that drama's sport.

You know news whatever very good Richard scheduled.

We are now moving into that.

And the longer this goes on that the lack of commissioning of different shows the more rigid schedules or get the more boring and I think people can argue with already happened on TV their seeing the same thing again and again and again, please Mr views fault.

Yeah, they're watching streaming services there watching like the high-end stuff.

This is what they want.

They want to consume in a multi-channel will be made sense of those all the stuff in the middle of us that have ensure that it's been squeeze out not really if you don't give people the shows to watch they're not going to watch them.

It's a sort of you know this terrible mistake the BBC made a few years ago when they will BBC3 they took it off as a channel and they will I owe you know the kids.

Just watching the things on the phone with the kids didn't watch BBC Three BBC Four 25 to 44 year olds and 7-year hang on we can have lost the authority is completely if you don't give people what they what they want.

They can watch they won't watch it.

You know in the meantime people are starting to get used to that of Netflix glamour a very big.

But now even that comes to an end.

They can't afford to sustain that anymore and even the Big Show's now chaos for example a few weeks ago such a great show full of glasses American stars and voted the best you know it's number one in the in the whole world but for Netflix and then they announced they were cancelling second series which is now what's happening on the on the strimmer, so it's that's what's the word that they use that and certification you know which is an amazing thing you can start off with giving you the same add radical kind of idea then it gets a little bit worse then they stop bothering at all and then it dies and that's what the string starting to do an in the meantime the British networks all went mad try to emulate streamers without having the money cancelled a lot of the earliest that cheaper but it's the middle is cheap and compared to the other set the high-end stuff and then course you end up with a sudden you know a toxic side of stew wear nothing lives in up to the poisonous are so it can't just be idiot commissioners entirely, can it is this?

Is it I think it's quite a lot on social media for the attacking commission as one person who you know thanks for the thought my battle for me.

How else producer get to a channel that goes through commissioners commissioners are The Gatekeepers they have to take responsibility and commissioners now a very risk-averse their bosses have all been in the jobs for 10 years and not taking risks.

You know I have one external boss yesterday.

Sent me an email privately saying I could never say this publicly but all the boxes have been jobs too long.

They're not taking risks like why can't publicly mean if somebody has to say it is there something to talk about money and obviously there's tax credits for for drama and more high-end should there be credits for for the middle absolutely should I think personally there should be some sort of maybe quota system or something protected.

You know that sort of ring fenced in the way that.

Play me over the last 2 years produce have been very adeptus going to the education budget and trying to get a show me done that money because that was ring front door.

This is on the schools budget or whatever because some things are and some of that should possibly be done again.

What shouldn't be done necessarily is trying to emulate Netflix or Apples budgets when you're not when you got the money.

You know Channel 5 is a very good that is actually trying to keep that kind of varied spirit going in channel five times, but they've introduced comedies and dramas.

They've actually managed to do on at a lower budget.

You know the streamers possibly the best one is Disney plus because it also has very radical different program and choices.

You know Netflix is very same Apple ID on Apple ultimately unsatisfying did they have very few hits on Apple because for some reason it all looks good, but isn't actually substantial.

I don't know you know that's where they have another show in itself.

Disney are doing a good job.

It's basically Disney a surprising I mean just in sheer offerings.

You know when they when they commissioned the Sex Pistols series.

I think I've got people like while and then it'll be it'll be censored.

No, no they are all the time and Tommy Lee drama.

You know where the head the animatronic penis.

It was like has got a kind of of to it a spirit which we used to have in British TV Channel 4 used to be like that, but isn't any more chance was a bit like a sub BBC2 it's always turn to break this into into the mainstream.

What has been that mainstream response what we had since.

I've been I've been I've had a lot of a lot of abuse social media support, but it's a lot of people initially from the TV industry desperately thankful that someone stood up and said it the the mainstream argument had one guy by the way.

He sent me a message this morning saying thank you.

I miss my dad finally believes me when I said I couldn't get a job in TV instead of me being lazy and he went on by the way, I'm now working in an office job and so I'm quite a big time entertainment producers, but no the the biggest the first thing straight away with it.

Got straight to the government tears and in last night Andrew Marr grilled Lisa Nandy about it.

Who was a little bit bland but she didn't know it's a challenge Monday crisis.

We need to find the BBC that will the BBC needs to fund the industry you know that's what the BBC Four at this point.

You know this thing about TV producers.

We are very adept at changing on a you know on a 6-month.

We can do anything tell us to do it would do it.

It's not the TV producers fault that the market is changing its the the market stopped buying when it's still can this isn't what's the word terminal disease that if you come up with that so it could still be a major hit.

Still run for you as it could do you get the order to put the channels now won't even take the risk of talking about it.

That's the right.

Thank you very much.

We know what you think about that mean.

I completely agree with Steven I think he's brilliant what I was saying.

I'm probably I reckon I've sent my CV to him, but he this I saw this article in it popped up all Instagram reel the day when it came out this from freelancers 68% of freelancers.

They still unemployed which is crazy and I even this year.

I've had my biggest chunk of unemployment for 5 months in my 20-year + career and it's just not getting any better and you see things at the Edinburgh TV festival and you see all these things and all these you know glitzy Awards things and stuff but

It's just a mask and there is there is a real crisis and even just today one of my producers whose fantastic an amazing went for a meeting for a different kind of job because they just unsure and uncertain and they've got children and mortgages and and as well.

You know even though Stevenson so as producers.

Yes, we are adept we can change we can do anything but actually when you then do your CV and you go I can make things like I don't know have a sheep on you something funny like that happened, but how do I put that into like a normal job applications and these because now that you talking to any idea.

They're basically turn around so will need to be global hit it needs to be like squid game and that's going to go everywhere and live on a strimmer and have that big.

Around it or it is like the the kind of low-level reality TV and essentially I've been told by channels as well that and by commissioners that that's all they go that is it and even things like comedy and stuff that will be pushed into the reality bracket and that's the weather going and that's the only thing I'm looking for advertisers are aware of their impact in all of this as well or do they just sort of listen to what the the channels are saying the social impacts of the pretty well.

I mean you know I think one of the things.

This is really interesting from the other side come from or a commercial perspective but I've had this inkling over Christmas this year about particularly say ITV and Channel 4 who don't have the subscription revenues like sky have the innervated enough in the last decade in order to get to where they need to be for the future and I think this feels like it's it's almost unfortunately reinforces my hypothesis because I feel like this.

The net result of the broadcasters realising that there you know they're Evans revenue streams are compromised and also you know potentially not going to come back and you know you've got a situation of the vast majority.

I think ITV's ad Revenue about 85% of Adam you still linear 70% but still these are you know if we talking about the first Strimmer and 10 years you need to be you need to be moving very quickly and I'm just not sure the business model is there to fund premium video in the same way, I can just by other so it's I mean it's fascinating.

It's scary.

I hope there's a an answer you wanna pitch two obviously anybody is there a broadcast for assuming actually they made out of the doing? I wasn't anything like this.

And then you back by 15 people we can't you can't even get a job and you're not listed in there.

So you don't Netflix is always the Dream oh you worked on her Netflix show but when then you speak to people that are they like.

Oh gosh and then because you've got the decisions with the Americans in the UK so it sounds like they're kind of sorting out Veyron things as well and it's all just being you don't at the minute.

It's a bit of a model but hopefully should sort out who I'd like to see more things on prime.

I think the virus leave they doing very well with Clarkson's farm, which again should have been on know what you think of that the show is brilliant accessible watch it's a shame because a lot of things that are on streaming would have 100%

Been on Channel 4 before I've been on you know BBC2 the can of the home of the the energy the risk takers and stuff and now there isn't any of that and I went in for a job a couple of years ago at somewhere and I stormed in and you'll know cos you're not doing nothing new and you know it used to be edgy and risky and all this and there's nothing and now you're on series 20 of something that is funny 15 years ago.

I didn't get the job.

I was right about streamers and broadcasters and my TV screen in the news this week and it's stock is up, but due to a report from Sky News suggesting.

There are a few potential suitors looking at wiring the broadcaster is pretty helpful for ITV at the moment Maisie who are the who are the suitors.

Who's come out the woodwork.

ITV might be broken up again.

Obviously, it's sort of constituent parts were famous in rivals recently, but we looks like one of them European broadcasters might buy at the broadcasting business and then find the studios business being bought by venture capitalists, so yes, they are ready for all3media was acquired by red bird that potentially in this area.

I mean this is a very successful one.

You could see why lots of people would be after it.

So yeah, it is hugely successful in and I've read that if they do sell and they do go down this through it will actually make the one of the biggest like global production houses in the world which is quite scary to think they're just based in White City I think on one hand I cannot think it could be a great.

Obviously, it's a really good thing for the business and it saves it and and will give us big global hits around another part of me thinks what two companies have just been swallowed up at the minute.

I'll be coming this huge powerhouses but then again they just losing this like kind of independence.

I feel and no just and this is how I will just end up with same content the big future ITV was to build up studios international group when you know I think commercial I would but I think commercial telly is a important thing.

It's important thing to continue now.

There's all sorts of shows when commissioned and done by commercial TV you know different to the BBC and obviously it give some more didn't because advertisers are really premium audience in which to appear.

I mean they advertised is due care, what content they appear in there are just also lots of.

Federations in terms of in her custom fields and all the rest of it and the idea of you know.

I don't know European seem particularly well, as it could be doing much more advanced than that was for me having that balance of the studio and the broadcast business feels like it allows you.

No give them sort of a buffet.

When one is doing worse than the other you know the recent is actually the TV the ad revenue that are compensated for the studio Revenue and it's quite nice that was that way round for a change, but you know it makes me nervous and you sort of thing I know that there's obviously scale is important, but I think having that balance and having it as a British company.

I think is available thing that doesn't make me sound to know I'm sure I've got to have a look.

Spin the been so rubbish for years.

I've missed out on the bin so many ITV takeover rumours something you know last 20-years and it's yeah.

It will be interesting to see how it plays re71 it was £2.60 in 2015 and it really does show that the the world has changed.

How do you think they've kept what they needed to do my ex has been a relative successful though.

It's not a lot of growth opportunities there and they are seen as kind of the the software in the kind of back and stuff.

They've done for advertisers has been really welcome to you know obviously ITV hub was kind of way behind everyone else and so now I've actually had a lot of Media agencies.

Who do the buying and planning for the clients so that they they think I have ex is a head of wet underfloor is now in terms of what they offer I live in Tehran

Changing all of their back into try.

Keep up and it also the ITV access potential one of the things wrong with the broadcast channels that makes interesting for a little while because if you're running a broadcaster another country using all that software and hardware to a German or French network might not be a bad might be efficiencies.

Yeah and kind of learnings that that can build a can of European supposed to compute the sum of the international straighteners week to dive into the most gripping stories in the media, but being such a star-studded lineup isn't always easy especially with guests travelling from all over the country.

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I'm in the meeting up this weekend been talking about the twists and Turns in the process industry has there ever been so many papers poised for an ownership change at the Scott Trust met on Monday to decide the Fate of the Observer and where to push on with the hottest day off at the recording nothing to eat out but for how much longer and the Telegraph which is still in the process of being sold and now the ft reports the former Tory Chancellor Nadim zahari.

Providing back in to the Dover death in bed at fun fact we are now on day 373 of the Telegraph sale me what the Yorkshire Post another titles in the local World group is subject to a takeover bid Media concierge number of Irish titles and used to run the ad sales for local world before being dismissed earlier this year, so they're interested who saw that one coming but now it's head back into advertising it is of the season at Maisie we ask you to suggest a few adverts for us to to watch and talk about first Waitrose with their Tupac mystery.

What have they been trying to do so Waitrose and got a new agency last year such and such a London and eventually they views something listeners will know well.

Just murder mystery can see in order to get the message home that their food is irresistible to so you've got a very well.

Cast and directed list of actors, who do a fabulous job they really well chosen for Waitrose all audience and it's been sort of activated line and install you've got a partner 20 shirts about it and the weather as a follow up with some line of duty actors as well that did really well on social.

So what did you think I loved it? That was funny highlights Matthew Macfadyen and he's remember.

I like Joe Wilkinson as well.

He's great.

Love to who done it and it has some really well like it.

I think he got 150 million over there my over different platforms using stuff which is brilliant to love like I'm I'm a bit.

I know I didn't I can't wait 2 weeks.

I watched it all in one.

I will wait and then do it but I thought it was really really good and and

A different take as well, you know all the alarms are going heartfelt sentimental.in been a woman with a heart of Stone John Lewis Waitrose John Lewis of kicked off the sort of TV I think it must be coming to yeah.

It's comes up brand deciding what to do.

Will there be come out with a sort of you know a confidence and bravado that the fits their sort your name.

I think probably Adam and Eve ddb.

You know can have almost I say sort of United in the UK you know it became such a big thing you does the advert came out so Buster the boxer which was the jumping and dog had 28 million views on YouTube when it came the first 24-hours in 2016, so where it down a bit from that has lots of expectations, but the relationship with Adam and Eve had got to the stage where you know that.

I think and you know it's an opportunity to build a new a new part of history about the company.

You know John Lewis is a company with quite complex needs things to fix and so you don't is a sort of big hero AD at Christmas the only thing that they need from an agency probably not Disney tattoos by the way to make A Wish advert this year.

Why did you like this one? Had a baby and a is is a little bit kind of saccharin, but it's the story of a boy who gets nuts stuck on his head and is directed by Tycho brahe and 4 minutes and going down really well.

It's on Disney plus.

Obviously there is a can of show it's been up to like fourth most watched on Disney Plus

At some point since it came out and I think it's worth 4 minutes of people's time.

I suppose he's quite a bit of different representation.

Obviously like he you know he's from that kind of world and stuff and and so I like the main character isn't you know this typically stand Christmas character and I was intrigued.

I was like what does the octopus want the little Mickey hat and festive here in the Disney music and stuff that I thought was really well done and because we're talking and that's why I won't call out to other Disney and you know there's a bit of humour when they're he's outside the kind of seafood.

Client for them and it's it's a fun thing and it's a firm an agency perspective.

Obviously a lot of his like to talk about making content and it being a content that people actually actively seeking out and spending time with them this seems to have hit a nerve in and that respect from the comments is a lot of very much felt.

It was very Disney like it was very on brand the Challenge for all of these companies whatever they doing is it got so much heritage to either worry about ordeal.

I mean with a complex Media environment while of ads skipped quite hard to get the stuff to cut through that days.

Yeah and also linked it to your brand because that's the beauty of the Waitrose campaign.

It's like you're not the point of it is Central to the reason you might go to Waitrose your Christmas food at Tesco's.

That would be interesting about Tesco almost has multiple things I would say it's a call to last year where they sold made everything Christmas and things burst into Christmas decorations and things it also has a an emotional story about loss cause.

There's a grandma and it has been remember to a bit sad and then it's all a bit funky and cool as well.

So for me.

It's a little bit confused, but I love that the agency had can of ambition and they're proud of it and I actually the things that I think he's great is that they've carried it through all the different media and you're there is a lot of money on posters and press and lots of things.

It's all really recognisable.

I mean I guess I'm looking out for it does Tesco you go into like a Sainsbury's and they had front page ads on all the papers unit for Tesco which it's fun and so there's just sort of there's been a lot of playing with it and I just really admire.

With ambition even if I don't necessarily think the end of all is is match perfect which one bottle Hegerty London I'm coming from it from a different point of view.

I don't like it.

I don't like it.

I thought the it just felt to Clichy in the it is pulling on my heartstrings the emotional it's like her.

What can we do awesome? We've lost someone and again.

I did warn you that I have a heart of school but I do find it's just either break cities or is it too soft it's never perfect we have a very Rocky relationship being gingerbread, but I I don't know I just felt it was just a bit too much and just I just didn't really like it.

I liked she's become like the unofficial queen of

But I love that Christmas basically Starts Now with Mariah Carey's advert of her screeching It's Time and then it's Christmas that's the only one for me.

That's the one I've worked out well with little lizards on at the media club.com posting you think about it to get that post to leave the comments and see what people say so, what have you both? Been up to you? What's happening in your rest too busy talking last time you're on about Alison Hammond and show with him.

Is that all in the bank yet? I have been working on an actual new series of the TV and we have which have just gone very well.

I hope and now it in the end and hopefully should be going out sometime next year.

I'm just I just hope you like it.

It's basically is Alison Hammond do what she does best in.

Celebrities but not just on a sofa for 7 minutes.

She is immersing the herself in their lives going out and about really like getting to know who they are and who the person they are under the Persona we think they are but using her very alcinous.

She is really funny really friendly shall meet you parents and just say it how it is and it's really good.

It's really good so hopefully I'm like so sit in the new year still to be scheduled at the moment.

Hopefully hopefully springtime amazing things of people listen then advertising list so kind of the best Outdoors ads TV and social act when you can get them campaignlive.co.uk ok, let's see how much I've been paying attention to this week media news this week.

It's entitled the real traitors three Media stories of people defecting or alleged deception using.

What the story is best of 3 buzz in if you know the answer I say you're so your name as Buzzard so maybe you'll say Maisy and they all say let's play the real traitors number one who's leaving the BBC correct.

Yes, Michelle saying has left the BBC Today programme if you're up early get loads of grief and your salaries published.

What is an editor something like that? I think it's a good mood for a well done another sort of talk about how I like how tall is the BBC you know find a place for her which might be true because I don't have you survived.

Just have decided an amazing job.

Maybe it feels like this time of my life when she can do something else if you could from Bloomberg which Media haunt has been closed for allegedly nefarious reasons happened to Lisa said the Venue is breached its licencing conditions and have been the scene of a recent serious criminal offence.

Twitter and research and nothing there any Amazon they're all about all the hedonistic stories of their from the 90s and the late seem to be stopped by pouring out and the black cab photos and I'll probably about 21 with the dad and I thought that was a bit like the height of.

I was talking about it with a friend this week because I'm all for immersive experience.

I think they'll be brilliant and I think it's a really play-along type so but he was saying he wouldn't be at he'd have to go on his own.

He said I would know you and I would know if you're lying and I said no you wouldn't know me you wouldn't be able to tell I think we should you know you could go as I will go on my own and and then play along yeah, although interestingly light.

I once conned by now husband at mafia, and he then took me out every subsequent game with friends and things because he's even if you didn't think it was me he was so scared by my successful lying.

Quite a lot of to have negative social feedback, but they have gone really enjoyed it really well, why the height of TaskMaster me and my family were all ready to go and then when the price on my god.

I'm not paid 100 quid or whatever it was.

I think this is going to be 30 quid they've said which feels like ok good.

I'll pay that that is not too expensive let's not alienate people while channel for a lecture, but I think it will probably be a success for joining us Maisie you when you have to go and get agency to make an amazing Christmas ad for the mediapro next you and we'll see her to thank you.

Thanks to you for joining us as well at remember.

You can always follow This podcast at your favourite podcast app to get a new episode every weekend sign up to the media club at the media club is all free to do all week after is your email address and you'll get a free weekly update for my stats of the Media club.com email us if you've got some news for something that we're not talking about hello at the media.com that's why you need to send it.

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It was a rethink audio production with video support from podcast Discovery I'll see you next week.

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