Read this: Prince Harry settles, Gaza ceasefire coverage, Children’s TV

did Tracy's back and so is that mysterious cloaked figure with the familiar fringe companion podcast Legends and murdered and Spanish players for Tracy's unclosed watch on iPlayer listen to more on BBC sounds music Radio podcasts from BBC Radio 4 as you've just been hearing in the news headlines Prince Harry has this morning settled his long-awaited against the Murdoch family news group newspapers in a moment will hear all about what that means and what might happen next Prince Harry and his wife Meghan have also just been the subject of an

Word cover story in Vanity Fair which revealed some fascinating details about their life and California 5 years since they quit the royal family is author Vanity Fair contributing editor and is with me alongside Jake kanter who's investigations editor at deadline welcome to you both and before we begin to talk about that.

Let's talk about the other major the story of the week Donald Trump's inauguration and I wonder will Jake first.

Did you watch it? Yes, I managed to watch some of it some of it through the prism of BBC news in which has more than interviews including one with Kid Rock You proceeded to flirt with one of the news readers, which I don't know if that's a full bearing message for what's 2, and what about you? I said the sauna.

I stop do the last one so Nottingham parcel journalist there wouldn't be able to say that if you're BBC journalist.

I mean you can't can you and a bit of a voided viral moments anyway, you know the heart the air kiss Hillary Clinton's laugh at the prospect of the Gulf of America no of course not does definitely permeated the culture, but I'm very glad to be covering Harry and Meghan and not Donald Trump ok, and we will come onto that with you both, but I'm going to come back to from shortly.

Please do stay with us because we're going to get to the big story of the day in a dramatic settlement this morning the murder of families news group newspapers the owner of the sun have offered a full unequivocal apology to Prince Harry 4 Series intrusion into his private life from 1996 to 2011 and then agreed to pay him substantial damages it settled a long-running battle between The Prince and the newspaper group would have been due to start yesterday and I called them was delayed for last minute negotiation between lawyers for newsgroup for Prince Harry and for the former labour MP

Tom Watson who is also a claimant it is the first time ngn has admitted wrongdoing against the Royal or indeed anybody involving unlawful activities by the sun Newspapers also apologise for serious intrusion into the Private Life of Harry's late mother Princess Diana this is David Sherborne barrister Prince Harry and lord, what's an outside the court in a monumental victory Today News UK have admitted that the sun the flagship title for Rupert Murdoch's UK media Empire engaged in illegal practises this represents a vindication for the hundreds of other claimants who was strong-armed into settling without being able to get the truth of what was done to them after endless resistance denials and legal battles by news group newspapers.

Including spending more than a billion pounds in payouts and in legal costs as well as paying off those in the know in order to prevent the full picture from coming out News UK is finally held to account for it illegal actions and it's blatant disregard for the law to just explain to your mind the evidence of what just happened well.

I mean look if you're a TV writer you would be pending this is the kind of final season of phone hacking the Scandal it's absolutely delivered from hydrometer a last-gasp court settlement today and I think going into this no one expected Prince Harry to.settle.in BBC News is Dominic casciani joke that it was more likely that he would sign up to write a column for the sun say that.

The reason it was unlikely was going to settle or at least that was the thought is that this is a moral crusade for Prince Harry he sees.

It is a battle between goods which he positioned himself as you know pursuing truth and justice and evil which is how he characterises Rupert Murdoch himself and his Media Empire for using alleged illegal tactic route out private information about him and his loved ones and you'll see from a David Sherborne statement that they are claiming victory to secure an apology from the sun and news group newspapers is an effective redrawing at the lines at news news group newspapers.

It is never conceded to activity on the sun.

So that is a what is a big deal.

Just want to bring in but just sorry to interrupt you, but we thought Joshua rozenberg solicitors legal aid.

Janice former colleague at the BBC just for people who have missed it all those been gone a long time outline the case as it was being brought.

What the Duke of Sussex to lead the journalist on private investigators working for news group newspapers used and lawful techniques to cry on his private life and executives covered it up at says that more than 200 articles published by newsgroup between 1996 and 2011 contained information gathered by illegal means and it was intended if this child gonna have it would look at around 30 stories in detail scored with the allegations being made there about a sitting MP at the time with oversight of the dcms committee.

Navigating the Murdoch newspapers at the height of the Scandal interesting if you want to get into the detail of it because in this apology today.

That was read out in court the gin offer full and unequivocal apology to Lord Watson for the unwarranted intrusion carried out in his private life during his time in government by the News of the World not the sun during the period 2009 to 2011 but in a statement from news group newspapers.

They deny that his phone was ever hacked between 2009 and 2011 and they said he's going to try out.

They would have demonstrated that hacking after 2007 was impossible because of the security updates to phone well.

It is interesting isn't it that not everything accepted? Not everything is proved there are aspects of this case with simply haven't been established as result of this settlement and in that sense that you can say the news group has achieved some.

Buy this this as a payment of substantial damages which it might not have achieved if it is going to call on the other hand Prince Harry and his team and lord, what's in a fully entitled to say they were Victoria's to been saying before we get into work both sides of saying that is the first time that engine has admitted wrongdoing against Prince Harry specifically involving unlawful activities as the sun has Jake was saying they made later this was by private investigators working for the sun not journalist, but it is still a huge win for the prince because I mean who instruct private investigators somebody signed off the payments to they were told what to do.

They would paid for information at the information appeared in the sun.

So you may say it's a little bit excuse to say we didn't do it.

We got somebody else to do it for us, but nevertheless the sun is saying that it's journalist, didn't do this it was.

Freelancer investigators from indication for both Prince Harry and Tom Watson what I mean.

It's only claiming that I mean as just outside unfortunately of the skates some of the truth here in and we may never get to the bottom of exactly what happened.

I think for that.

I mean that I think that's a big.

That's a big win on the Side Of News group newspapers.

Yeah, they have avoided the situation which they were going to be dragged into a 10 week trial they probably would have faced in Embarrassing revelations and a drawn-out allegations of a cover up the fact that they been able to pin it on private investigators commissioned by the sun give them some sort of put it arm's-length and also it potentially means that Rebekah Brooks who was the editor of The Sun at the time of these allegations.

Won't face scrutiny it won't take the stand and it wasn't clear whether she would but I know I think that's a distinct possibility is probably important to say that she's been for criminal charges in the pass in 2014 including conspired hack phones when she was editor of the news of the world, but she is now at the boss of News UK which is the empire that houses the sun and I wouldn't be surprised if your faces faces faces further scrutiny and questions over the coming days and weeks away with murder up but I can change yeah.

She's absolutely a key Ally every man has been for decades now.

Yeah, she is a bit of a figure actually she really appears in public, but is still a major Media power player here in the UK and internationally yeah, I'm sure she's regular courting.

She's even spent time with the BBC director-general in recent years is she about to be thrust into the spotlight again? We'll have to wait and see what I'd like to bring in Chris hughton to her former cabinet minister in the conservative Lib Dem coalition your reaction first to the settlement because you have been in this position yourself, is it worth position for anybody making a claim against newsgroup which is that you could go to court you could win a settlement from newsgroup but if that was lower than they had already offered you you would be liable all the Rupert Murdoch's legal fees which could be 10 million pounds and damages awarded against you then if you had previously been offered a settlement that was higher than that you would be liable for support and you can win damages in your favour.

News group and if that happens and those damages a less than you already been offered then you are liable for all of Luke Rupert Murdoch's legal fees which could swap the amount of Damages am cause your bankruptcy that why you settled was that your position labels and we all would have liked to see this ventilated properly in open court because frankly there is an awful lot of detail in the evidence which the Murdoch companies do not want to see how which is extremely embarrassing for them about the cover up about everything else that they were up to most importantly on the media show rather than the Politics show is that Tom Watson allegations my allegations out of Vince Cable of Norman lamb and others are really crucial because this.

Not ordered by journalists this was ordered by executives for executive power because they were worried about the investigation that Tom Watson was involved on the select committee or because they wanted to get approval for their bed for Sky television and this has nothing to do with journalism.

This was the use of hacking and other means of intrusion to people's Private Lives of politicians in order to pursue corporate objectives that was corporate espionage and they would have settled without any admission of liability when it came this way settle without any admission of liability and the interesting thing in this case is that they have had to admit Harry has extracted like drawing teeth use extracted and wrongdoing of criminal activity of unlawful activity.

I would say that criminal activity.

This is Tom Watson criminal Enterprise in what the way in.

David's marketing politicians who got in their way and the reality is that is now over to the police to complete this investigation if some of the Metropolitan Police decide but they should go ahead with a full investigation then the full monkey Business can come to light in another trial, but sadly the full monkey business has not come to light as a result of this settle and you were staying at the top that all of you.

Was you or Hugh Grant or Sienna Miller said this as well the actress you would have liked to a ventilated this in court your own but you couldn't because of this this business with the damage is in the settlement in the cost, but they're do you think would you have preferred Harry Prince Harry and the what's not to settle this case, did you want to I think you were you giving a witness statement.

You know you want to do.

I'm all I am disappointed.

I would very much like to see this properly ventilated all of the facts that I know as part of the disclosure that was given me as part of my case of a disclosure that was given to other people and is part of the generic case none of that is going to come as an open court and therefore be able to be sorted on the privilege by news organisations and that is a very regrettable situation.

I have written to some really the metropolitan police commissioner to offer full co-operate with any police enquiry below entirely back from Watson's view and the view of the former prime minister Gordon Brown at there now needs to be a police investigation by Joshua rozenberg.

Just to bring you back in newsgroup in its statement appears to be claiming that Harry settled because he saw the details of their defense including the Witnesses they would call.

At what do you think about what they would say that wouldn't they and he would say the opposite.

I think Chris huen is right about the Financial imperative no doubt newsgroup made a lot of meaning play Dave offered money by paying into court does the phrase goes and is Chris says if he had secured lower damages than the presumably large some they were offering he would have nothing in D&D Will had to pay their cost and that's how it works now.

Is that fair Chris says he wants this information brought out it won't be well.

You could say it's very unfortunate from the claimants from the courts point of view.

It takes the view that it's there to provide compensation for a loss damages if you have been damaged and if the defendant is willing to pay you are willing to accept that money well.

That's the end of it and that's why the case doesn't come to court to bring you back in now because it hasn't been.

Case do you think that has been reputational damage to.ngn as a result of this because I was eating that you know what they're with they've won in the sense that they don't have to have a drip drip drip of allegations made over the next few weeks.

I think missing liability here.

It is without that reputation damage.

I don't think it's hard to argue.

Otherwise.

I think drive from back of the day when they had to stop the news of the world and the sun is situation in which group is admitting to using illegal Tactics in which to obtain information.

I think that is that reflects very poorly on UK brochure on journalism as a profession unfortunately even though the majority the vast majority of journalists work responsibly and ethically it does not it does not Bode

trust in journalism delicate time for trusting journalism listen to what Tom Watson said some of his statement from outside Court unlawful practises were isolated incidents.

They were industrial in scale and Central to the modus operandi of new group newspapers as a whole.

I want said that the big Beasts of the tabloid jungle have no Predators I was wrong.

They have Prince Harry his bravery and courage have brought accountability to a part of the media world that thought it was untouchable Joshua Rosenbaum we've been talking haven't me about Prince Harry and Tom Watson wanting this to now be investigated by the police.

They said they preparing a Dacia for the Metropolitan Police could legal proceedings for low Vision service say that there is enough evidence.

Well, then it could be Jake Hunter we're in a different Media age if you like to look at the Tech Bros surrounding you know people to realise that but when did it change when did the culture of paying for stories hiring Private Investigations hacking phones enquiry?

The news of the world that was the watershed and they did you know how much is it still go on obviously not phone hacking because assistant work for a differently now.

It is difficult to pinpoint an exact time but I do think the phone hacking scandal and the Leveson Enquiry were really important in changing Professional Standards within some of the top of newspapers.

I think there's been a significant weakening of tabloid newspapers and that has changed the way that they report as well.

You know most of us get our NewsNow through social media and other platforms so newspapers.

Don't we'll the power that they want stared and a not resourced in the same way as they want to wear and therefore these Tactics a slightly more the results of that makes sense.

Do you think that people still care about accountability when it comes to tabloids? Is this a watershed moment as the conversation moved on.

Well, I said at the start.

This is like the final season of a phone hacking scandal and I'm sure news group newspapers.

Would would like that to be the case but Prince Harry still has another case outstanding against associated newspapers other claimants in that case include Elton John and Liz Hurley and Baroness Lawrence as part of that particular claim so more is the come on this I'm going to read some Avenged and statement this was issued subsequent to their apology that was read out in court in the 1990s and early 2000s there was widespread use by the broadcast and news media of private investigators in most cases.

They use was for public interest journalism and to obtain information necessary for the purposes of journalism today or apology to the Duke of Sussex includes an apology for incidents of unlawful activities carried out by private investigators working for the sun not by journalist.

In the period 1996 to 2011 there are strong controls and processes in place at all our titles today to ensure that this cannot happen now.

There was no spell interception on the sun that say what engine had to say today.

Thank you to Christine and Joshua rozenberg for being on the programme ana.pl as I said at the top contributing editor Vanity Fair is here.

It's 5 years since Prince Harry and Meghan markle's royal, Exeter and you wouldn't along and extensively researched piece for Vanity Fair all about their life and Business Ventures which came out last Friday but I won the first before we talk about that just how you have you no listen and reacted to the discussion.

We've just had and the and the events today area of expertise, but certainly attracts with Prince Harry has said is his mission and the kind of work that he seems to want to do to make the world a better place.

Only have reported his court cases is very court case against newspapers for some time now in my day job.

We always said he was going to be the last man standing on this principle.

I wonder what you are his finances from your investigation into it.

Is it is it like being the end that actually just like everybody else he couldn't afford the risk.

You know that actually the finances are always stretched even if you are wants a member of the Royal I don't know his personal finances.

I reported on their business dealings, so I don't know exactly how much money is in Terry's bank account fair enough and the Media deals in the past few years.

Do you think that an injection of cash were talking about perhaps 7 or 8 figure sum I think a Seven Figure sum do you think there's enough cash machines? They think differently they'll think differently about their business projects as far as you're aware of the business projects.

I mean the size of the projects that they've been doing and the amount.

I don't know how whether this is a life-changing sum of money for these people fair enough in your eyes go you're fascinating article you talk about a lot.

You are seen by their neighbours in the exclusive California neighbourhood want to see to you.

Talk about troubles behind the scenes in a Business Ventures there's conversations rumours about the propose marriage claims that somebody with Megan ended up needing therapy at the Duke and Duchess of Sussex according to sources close to the couple are understood to have describe the claims as distressing.

I'm interested from your perspective has clearly invested heavily in the story.

What Drew you to it.

Why did you want to write this piece has been covering the royal family and members of the royal family member of the royal family for years and it's something that I've been interested in and I was very turned into Reading spare watching Harry and Meghan following their journey listen to that.

Well before I started before mystery fair enough and present region has always been a key part of their story.

What were you thinking about that when you worked out how to how to watch Harry and Meghan public figures there the subject of intense public interest in fascination.

They continue to make the public including the Vanity Fair cover story about Megan participated in and they continue to have public projects they declined to participate in the story Republic people and how did you approach them sourcing your peace giving obviously the ongoing sensitivity and media scrutiny of people from many areas of their life including people who live in the community people who have worked closely with people who have interacted with them in various capacities to make sure that I understood the breadth of

Had with them many of which were positive and many of those people love them and find them to be very well-meaning people who are as I said trying to make the roller better place not surprising it is quite a mixed picture in terms of what's on for people say about them.

You've got one source describing Megan is undermining another calls her a lovely genuine person.

It's been given a huge a coverage many UK newspapers focus on the negative aspects of your story and I wonder how you read that.

What did you think the coverage of your peace was there and I think it's fair for people to be interested in whether interested in either of course would have loved our perspectives to have been represented understand that can be comprehensive and I do wish that there have been more attention paid to the people who have had wonderful experiences with them and the good things that they do seem to be trying to do.

I think that people are interested in them because they will power and I think it's fair for people to say how effectively are the welding power and as we say that you know they were conflicting accounts sources close to the sussexes told the times for example that some of the claims made in the article for example what they're like is in a hama bead locally that it's been disputed by former employees and neighbours Sharon Stone a friend of theirs told hello magazine last week.

They are part of our community then become and giving caring participating part of our community.

They're not here to be like would you like to kiss my butt? How did you manage conflicting accounts like that and in the end? Where do you get to if you feel that you know you have one person running another person say the opposite everybody has different experiences with people my experience with you could be different from your neighbours experience with you, so

The book idea dimension I heard from several sources Megan's team several years ago had a publisher to discuss whether they were theoretically be interested in an idea for a book that will take place following a post Harry divorced now.

I spoke with a stores very rock to verify the details I spoke with another source who did not dispute that there is a meeting but said that if it happened Megan would have been the one who was approached and not the other way around so then I know ok.

No one staying at the wasn't a meeting time in the clear to report that but I think it's fair that people have differences in opinion people think you know what I remember there and everything about a help with my sister's you brought it up now.

You brought it up, so I think that's fair enough with both perspectives.

Yeah, I did it make a difference.

I mean how much of a difference does it make that they?

Not to be interviewed for Vanity Fair this time.

I'm thinking back to 2017 when Vanity Fair had that major exclusive with a cover story where Meghan announce to the world you was in love with Harry and interview with his girlfriend, but that was their choice they declined to take part and so that means of this vs.

Who did take part or the ones you hear from you would have liked them today partner expecting them to you.

I suppose my question how many bombs did you have or was it just the flat? No, they didn't take part and that's how it round up coming out but of course.

I would have loved to have and how do you think what effect larger trends in celebrity branding and content creation? I think celebrities and content creators wanna have as much control.

How they seem as possible so I think this represents that and I think that you know influencers and celebrities have to have a unique selling point to kind of breakthrough and certainly having a lead title from the British Monarchy in America is a unique selling point as a celebrity but you seem to be suggesting.

I mean in the peace that celebrities know why they're celebrity is in what what is that people are interested in which is there celebrity? Are you in the pieces suggesting all people suggest that the from the royals have Harry and meghan's side.

It is more conflicted than that well.

What they think about that doesn't always need to be what people think about them of course.

We are control our see you in peace in the way would like to be seen her the way we see ourselves.

I think it's

Oakworth don't see Harry as and Harry and Meghan as I think babe but themselves out as but I think a lot of people do see them that way I think both things to meet you at the same time but obviously not everybody who is watching them as an outsider in a viewing them as celebrities and not people who they know are going to and how much control do you think they have in the end of their median age and media strategies, how much of their Public Image is shaped by their own efforts against the medias portrayal of them.

Will they get it choose what they put out their right? They get to do Harry and Meghan and they get to let you know other people put them in their own version out there in spare.

Harry obviously kind of confounds a review of him and retails his childhood story but then of course.

People going to my fill in the blanks are we seeing and I think that some of the things that have continued to come up you know such as the things that you know haven't been answered for but can you come up and Darius reporting allegations of bullying Meghan in the workplace? I think when those things continue to come up and they're not answered for I think then that means the question open and some people need to ask Prince Harry's make sure he believes that the way that he and his wife portrayed in the media is directly related to the cases and the claim that he's been making the British Media at 4 sometime, but you you're not just met Harry and Meghan Focus but we're not surprised to hear that you've got another project your next thing you're writing a book about love Island

Can you tell Ryan and how's it going and I won't I'm fine of love Island I think it's fascinating how they create real feelings out of this totally fake environment.

I've been to the villa, which was obviously at all.

I got to meet Maya Jama and reporting is going well.

I am learning everything that goes online the scenes and how they create this show and what it does to the people who take part as I do.

They want to return to Donald Trump you might say he's busy week the day.

I think is this and I met with owners of tic Tac the big is worthless if it doesn't go to prevent.

It's not go you can take the US the whole thing is worthless with a permanence worth like a billion dollars, so what I'm thinking about saying to somebody is by it and

After the United States of America have that will give you the permanent that was President Trump answering questions about tiktok while meeting with oracle founder Larry Ellison and other tech buses in the Oval Office on Tuesday we'll see the huge pictures through the week of his inauguration and and actions since Jake and just bringing you back in from deadline.

Have big tag and the US government's on merge do you think well we're seeing something that we just didn't witness in 2016.

I mean just to take tiktok as an example mean trump previously lead efforts to ban tiktok.

I'll give you that posted a threat to US national security and he is a tiktok saviour and I think I choose a couple of things for him.

Play ayo being painted as a Savers is the saviour is no bad thing for an incoming president and yeah.

I'm sure will win him many fans on TiK ToK slow.

I think it's 170 million American uses the other thing which I think is probably gets your question a bit more which is yo it.

It wins it give him space efforts and give him power is efforts to bring the tap Titans 2 he'll he now has the power to sort of extract concessions from tiktok and maybe even encourage from eating its algorithm.

Turn the trump dial-up a little bit I mean like that speculation on my part, but we are seeing tech companies take massive steps in his Direction you've only got a message at the owner of Facebook and Instagram which is now dropping fact-checking across ITS services and there's a pointed trump allies to some very senior positions.

Yeah, we're a totally different climate.

Previously when trump was in office and he was talking about breaking these companies up non-stop an appeal.

We know you're the text Boss is look like they're in favour Donald Trump attack the media mainstream Media Legacy me he's called it worse words endlessly on the campaign.

How do you as a journalist in the States feel about the next four years understanding that there are such things as objective truth and that we have for Thursday no matter who's in charge and no matter who has power and what about his relationship with Hollywood his name Sylvester Stallone Mel Gibson and John Boy a special and back to what he labelled a troubled entertainment industry, what did you make that? I think that Donald Trump has always had a very special relationship with Hollywood is mine and I think it's interesting that he's bringing those particular men into the government in this very special way.

Thank you and a friend.

Find her feature on the sussexes on their website but we are going to turn to the Israel Hamas ceasefire now and again on Sunday after 15 months of War following the 7th of tax in 2023 as part of the deal 3 Israeli hostages were handed over biomass to the Red Cross in Gaza and then to the Israeli military TV coverage so chaotic in Gaza City Square as crowds master around the vehicle carrying the hostages.

There was a brief glimpse of the three women as they were taken from the van and the surgeon crowds those images of being released were being around the world.

No gitana Polski is with us from Jerusalem she's a freelance journalist covering the region.

She's been watching and he's going to help us analyse the coverage.

Thanks for coming back on the media show where did most israelis get their coverage of this hostage handover got the coverage.

Israeli channels, I think almost exclusively, there are three main channels there.

You know there's a right-wing sort of right wing more political channels, but that's where is really sore really riveted to the images shown by their own TV which in this case actually did me to certain extent images being shown around the world as well.

I'm asking where the actual footage came from because there were multiple pieces of content for trying it here from everyone from the Israeli government to her mast aljazira and apparently some from Palestinian civilians.

Yes in particular highlight Gardens Villiers because the first pictures we saw we saw sorry, would you describing we really I think very tasty?

Pictures of these three on women dressed in kind of fuchsia pink been paraded through what looks like a brain Mob of masked heavily armed men and diesel very very well engineered by Hamas to show how powerful force transporting these women images were by and large transmitted around just here.

They are see them.

They're walking and turned out it didn't take very long for Gaza using their own cameras in their own individual Gardens to put up pictures and videos on Twitter and on tiktok and Instagram the actually showed that the crowds were very small that it might have been 100-250 men that they were really it was created like almost a movie scene around these tracks in which they were transported.

This was unbelievably important context because much of the world left on these images to show in away nogasm.

So innocent right angles has been going around right-wing Media a lot in recent months unfortunately and they wanted to show you see hundreds thousands of Gardens and in fact.

It wasn't supposed was starting it.

Did look sorry to interrupt like a great PR moment for Hamas if you like when we first saw those that photo this was a terrorist organisation going to be the day we going to wipe out and what we saw was something different.

Yes, it was a very bad moment for is really kind of you trying to argue that in almost white out from US military which has but I want to say about that is journalist.

It was a bad moment for us.

I understand what happened.

These women having seen the Light of Day in 50 months.

We haven't seen them everyone watching was dying to know are they alright? Can you live so engineered transfer you can before the images for example houses in systems on not letting Israel know if the hostages it's releasing or alive or dead ahead of time.

They have succeeded in creating a situation which were all hanging on there every word of the every image, but I really think that we is journalist have to save up before the next round which is coming as early Saturday because we did a terrible the service.

I think your profession by basically translating pure propaganda.

Are you just saying propaganda on homicidal? What did you think of what involvement of the Israeli government as well?

Because israelis were told and were worn, but these women wearing a very fragile state that there would be no access to them before they close hospital.

They wouldn't even be able to see their families.

There was all kind of caution put out there and at the end Israeli government press office cameras which is good and press office is a branch of this really prime minister's office.

They were waiting for these women literally behind the hospital doors.

I found this to be pregnant and Virgin on the obscene.

So these women these young women were asked for permission were in no position to give it so imagine the situation be Stanley's the tension the you know like of Cardinals nutrition.

I don't know I have no evidence to suggest that the data did not give permission permission they were in a situation of coercion the hell.

Do you think the view is it wrong to show this footage? Would you say the only one in the state of Israel who feels this way to be honest? I have asked wanted to call you my personal agreed with me is a colleague and is really abroad despite my situation extreme minority I do feel strongly about it and I wouldn't be surprised if we hear from one of these women see how she felt cameras.

You know every whimper every every expression in the most intimate and and foldable situation in their lives.

I don't think this had to be transmitted necessarily to the public and as we've been reporting many times on the media show international journalists have been banned from.

By the Israeli and Egyptian government now a ceasefire has begun are there any signs that those done this will be allowed into Gaza Association here news railway of petition the Supreme Court 2-hours the court by lot has just without common accepted.

The army's arguments that due to security reasons during the last supreme court hearings just yesterday the the army received another possible moment there seems to be a man finish off parties in his role very very very little awareness if you ask me about the importance of having independent professional media coverage in Gaza and I would even argue if I could speak to these people directly but the state of Israel itself hasn't been very ill served by the policy of not allowing anyone into Gaza

Basically the narrative that is taking over the world and specifically very much the Arab World is hummus narrative and I think it should ask it questions about this burger tarnopolsky.

Thank you so much for your time.

Thanks for coming on the media show now have a listen to this.

I'm so in love with you today.

It's going to be so much fun.

Can you do this rhyme with me and who is in the zoo playing that is a voice that potentially many parents listening might recognise Ms Rachel she's one of the most popular children's content creators on the more than 13 million subscribers on her channel last week.

She struck a deal with Netflix with episodes streaming on the platform later this month they've been many other examples of popular.

Starting life on YouTube from cocomelon to blippi children's Media habits are changing according to Ofcom only 55% of children between the ages of 4 and 15.

What's traditional TV so that is liable catch up programming on a TV set at home that each week 55% of children last year that was me videos of forms like YouTube and tiktok account for 40% of their total in home video time will what does this say about the evolution of the children's Media landscape and what is the role of public service broadcasters in this new world to discuss that I'm joined by Patricia Hidalgo the BBC's director of children and education welcome to the media show Patricia you're very welcome.

Thanks for coming on.

It.

May sound like children's TV is booming from the news is there but you've written that the broader children's Media landscape in the UK is in decline 904l Avenger

Been talking about this just explain why well if you think about you know how children learn and and how they make sense of the world Media plays an important part in that and one of the things that we have seen in the past 10-years more pronounced than ever is that the rights of you to come sunshine together with streamers has meant that children are a the consumption of of children's content is no longer balanced in this country in any other because we are inundated by the se American English programs and the reason for that of course it's because you've got on one hand you have the YouTube that is not that hasn't been regulated in the same way as channels traditionally were so if you think about children's channels, which have been in.

A long time they have specific regulations that asked him to do an amount of investment insurance content that was culturally relevant and local to the services are provided an amount of prominence of that content in those channels.

That's not happening on on YouTube and you think of the streamers equally that that's that's not happening there head of children's programme on BBC what do you see the BBC's roll to be in in trying to reverse this trend? Will we see at the moment and forever has always been at the forefront of commissioning the best children's content of the tissue that we are facing and this is not just for children's Media but it's a across all of you now TV media is that it is getting harder and harder.

To put together the deposit to be able to deliver that fantastic content that we have been making for so long and and one of the things that Easter is not helping a stew that is the fact that there is less and less investment from all the other operators in the service industry, so without children seem to see that it is really vibrant and Francie and creative is it is it's getting harder and harder to to be able to to get that create content that we all want.

So you know the BBC's doing about that when we are continuing to support all those independent producers and always creatives and Talents are across the UK and we are doing it.

Hi, you know making our budgets stretch further but also going out there to do more and more protections with colleagues across in.

Sing your own Canada we're doing that stay with us to bring Jake kanter back in Jake I'm going to show my age now, but you know I remember those great BBC programmes with some of it still exist but you know Blue Peter was the Jewel crown.

I was preferred swap shop to Tiswas but that was unfortunate was all the cool kids loved it was but it turns your take on how the BBC is approaching children's programming now or the BBC's in a bit of a tough spot and I do really worry about the BBC is has already lost this battle to be honest no position where it's been you served by US Netflix and tiktok viewers Age 4 to 15 years old.

I mean I just would have been absolutely Unthinkable a decade ago and it is doing that in a context in which it is with additional funding cuts and existential questions about the licence fee.

It is not a good time for the BBC to be waiting this war and a war that I think you could say.

Is lost as I say what I would say Patricia I would ask her if she is the the children that are watching player engaging with throws like a doggy and Louis they are the future generations of licence repairs.

They are future BBC audiences.

What we have seen in the last couple of years is that BBC children's is not immune from wider cuts of the BBC and I wonder should the BBC be thinking about ring-fencing children's budgets because stop this existential crisis, you might be in favour of that ring fencing children's budgets as you're in charge of his budget was in favour of more money Frankie do you know I think it was important.

How do we actually which they to disagree with you, then? We haven't lost the battle at all.

I have to say that in the past in the past 4 years.

We have actually increased the

The hours that we're actually having children watch from iPlayer by 40% to 1.3 billion.

What just in the last year so that's have lost the Battlefront Lee and we also have increased our present across all the different platforms and the way that the BBC's actually approaching this certain important or if you think about the name of our department we are children and education and actually that gives us.

I really differentiation to the rest competitors because we're not just about making video content we're here to inform entertain and educate and inform with Newsround we are actually watched by 3.5 million kids everything will work in schools.

We educate with Bitesize is about 2.2 million kids every week that turned to Bitesize you know to help them.

The homework to learn about the world and about different things and we're also you know entertaining them with with with iPlayer and iPlayer it's actually as I said before sowing and growing the interesting thing you might not know David is this year we have actually been able to stop that loss of all the answers because what we can see the crucified players now of setting their loss of Alina channels global youth research and digital agency and his boss at done.

It is also on the board of the children's Media Foundation David welcome to the media show with the rise of YouTube international just paid a picture for us.

How dominant is YouTube in this children space incredibly across the world I mean we're looking at.

The UK is probably double the other platforms if you look at our study probably double the receive roughly 70 per cent to have watched in the last week on YouTube where is it good sounding to the 40% for the BBC iPlayer and such that the appeal for children over the appeal is quite easy YouTube it is kid Google they would rather learn from a video than them from print.

They can find anything it is that they want they can do whatever you're passing your interest whatever you want to dig into you're going to find it on on YouTube but I think that's the challenge the BBC is an entity do everything for everyone but it provides public service that is better that is created with with children in mind where as most of what's on YouTube is not vetted you've had conversations to read the hour on the

The royal news in the role of of media and bringing truth to people you don't know when you're watching YouTube it what you are saying has been vetted by anyone to understand understand the topic.

Where is the BBC does such an exceptional job? I just in the last 20 seconds or so Patricia it would have been talking at David about the importance of children watching content the feels local to them I wonder in 10 seconds to show the family actually care about that doesn't do they care about that.

I was asking David he thinks that family is family care about British content in a couple of different countries and what we found is the people are very proud when they find out the content is Made in their country, but they don't necessarily see that's interesting.

I wish we had more time, but we don't thank you so much David Lehman and before that Patricia is algo the BBC director children and education as well.

Thank you to deadlines Jake kanter.

What's causing the Prince Harry Court settlement on the BBC News website and after the end of this program on p.m.

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