Read this: The New Yorker at 100

Before you listen to this BBC podcast I want to tell you why I love podcast.

Hi, my name is Tony Dixon and I'm a podcast for the BBC I'm a big fan of stories always love the good book started commuting for my first job.

I discovered podcast I was blown away by how a creative idea in the right mix with sounds taken to a whole new world full of incredible stories.

You know that make you go wow that can inspire you to give it a go myself which to cut a long story short letter BBC training scheme and a whole new career giving other people that exact same feeling so if you want to hear me some stories that make you go wow that they just a tap or click away on BBC sounds BBC sounds music Radio podcasts hello, this is the media show from BBC Radio 4 in the week the US and Russia help face-to-face talks about the war in Ukraine a former NATO spokesperson, will tell us how the media fits into global diplomacy.

The New Yorker David remnick is with us as the magazine marks its 100th anniversary in our latest tech profile will learn about Sam Altman the head of open AI and one of the most significant in shaping how we may use artificial intelligence in the future and a couple of weeks back on the media.

Show we can be in a group of big Media executive to discuss the challenges of content for Gen Z this week.

We'll talk to a couple of members of that much discussed generation about working in the media and what they think it needs to do better well as your Katie's not weather this week, so it's me you and I guess for the next hour and we going to begin with diplomacy and the media we've had the Munich security summit us-russia talks in Saudi Arabia earlier this week.

There was an emergency European summer in Paris and the military alliance NATO has been conducting a series of meetings all of this has been focused on the war in Ukraine and

Parties will be communicating with each other with the audience Around the World in a range of different ways including by the media.

Let's understand that better without defence editor at the Times David editor of The New Yorker and one of them Jessica former NATO spokesperson from 2010 to 2023 meaning she did that job longer than anyone else has done it like this.

It must be very hard to keep across all of the twists and Turns that are happening within these meetings in back channels that are occurring.

Where do you start in terms of trying to piece together the story crazy days over the last few weeks and you know normally I wake up and down stage everybody that I can think of that might have something to say whether that's a diplomatic and military chief for some officials in the government and try to sort of get a sense of what people are thinking that.

Normally needs times it after Donald Trump has said something quite outrageous the night before and everyone just trying to still work out exactly what he means and what the repercussions are and then you know during the day you will have to have lots of different briefings from various people today.

I've got one a bit later on with security but actually it's a whole host of people be commenting on on their thoughts about what's going on in Ukraine at the moment and of course I was at Munich security conference last week.

Where where I did see her today and you're messaging out to your sources, but on weeks like this.

Are you also getting a lot of people coming to you wanting to get their point of view in reporting in the times absolutely right again.

You know lots of different messages.

He knows some people this quite striking some people message me and say they might be a

The government actually asking you know.

What are you hearing because we don't often know what the Americans are sort of thinking about everything especially with this trump administration and I think it's leaving quite a lot of countries a bit baffled and a bit confused and uncertain about what they want.

They're such an approach is going forward so it might be that somebody messages to say do you know anything that is going more likely it's it's somebody wanted to push out there message because they don't want to go on record it because it's all you know potentially very in a very political but they do want to sort the criticised date for some reason and this has been a difficult week for a number of the protagonist within this story.

I wonder at times of pressure like that weather what you're here behind the scenes Off the Record is quite different to the public pronouncements that you here for the same people.

Absolutely especially when it comes to the the British government because the British government has been extremely nervous about saying anything negative about the Americans because of course the UK you know wants to maintain that relationship with trump, then nervous that anything they do say you know the UK might be slapped with tariffs.

Where some of the Europeans have been a bit more vocal a bit more critical about the US policies and so the sources that I'm speaking to you know we'll be happy to say something about you know their genuine belief about us policies Off the Record as a source but they're not willing to go on the record because of the potential repercussions of doing so this let's bring in one at than just good form a spokesperson for nz801 in your previous job if a meeting of this type of consequence were approaching or a week of this type of consequence or approaching.

How would you go about preparing for it?

Preparations would be you would be done well in advance, but of course we also had especially in the last few years periods when we had to move very fast and the courts 24th of February 2022 they start of Russian invasion of Ukraine was such a day.

It was a shock but it was not a surprise because we had actually been monitoring the deployment of the military deployments of the Russian forces on the border with Ukraine and we had used our communications to call out.

What's rush.

I was doing so for the first time ever we Declassified together with the US with a UK a large amount of intelligence to call out with Russia was doing to warn.

I'll public's and also to help create you.

In terms of Supporting Ukraine and supporting strengthening NATO defence and then in the morning the early hours of the 24th of February around 4:30 of the media monitors working in extra shifts at we're all monitoring.

What was happening and then that enabled the secretary-general to call the meeting of the North Atlantic Council the Ambassadors of all the NATO allies very early in the morning to take quick decisions because this is not just about meeting meeting site especially for NATO you know nature is not think tank or a discussion club the questions from the media will be so what you going to do NATO so it was very important that that was not just about issuing a statement but also I'll take the decision to activate NATO defence plans from the Baltic to the Black Sea and your job.

NATO team was of course to put that organisations perspective, but within that organization are many countries each of which have their own calculations with their own governments and their own domestic political situations on a week such as this let's take the European summit on Monday which President Barack are hosted and with Shakira starmer attended on behalf of the UK each of those countries where their own Media messaging strategy, so how how much effort goes into try and lie nose up or is that just impossible? I think present I can't send it to the meeting as a sign of agility of speed and of Unity it's sort of backfired not least because as Larissa was saying we were at the Munich security conference and I'm sure like her we were getting a lot of rather frantic messages and what happens signal messages about was in and who was out of the meeting.

In on the meeting if they were out which also means that the media was focusing on who was around that table rather than on her rather than focusing on wasn't around the table rather than who was which also has now leads to present mic on calling for yet another meeting goes to we're not in on the original meeting so there is in these cases these things can can backfire so it's very important that they do cause an advance sometimes.

It's not possible, but you can see it also from the from the images the visuals and visuals are quite important as we know and they're not just about sticks.

They do send political signal so if you look at the picture of the leaders including secure starmer around the table at the Elysee Palace they all look.

A bit awkward some of them look by Stern serious others are actually smiling others are hiding behind the others so that does not convey a sense of Unity so it's it's always difficult to take pictures of people you're perfect pictures of people around the Round Table but it also shows that not enough thinking was put into the logistics the media operations of this meeting with to send a strong political single so they're our debate about which countries should be present at the Summits which political leaders be there which diplomatic senior figures should be there but the rest of their loss of the calculations about which journalists are given what access at these Summits how does that work? How are you and the times go about go skating being able to report from within a Summit or a meeting such as the one we seen and read between the Russians and the Americans or the one we saw in Paris with the Europeans

Depends on the situation you know if you take the Munich security conference.

It was extremely difficult to actually get inside the hotel where all the meetings were taking place and in previous years we had the journalist to the Tudor sort of you know that the hotel.

Where is this year actually the media were sorted in this whole different building block about 10-minutes and if you wanted to actually get into the hotel you have to be escorted which was which is quite unusual unusual compared to previous years but in terms of your big press conferences often will be invited but the sort of key question for ordered who is going to be able to ask the crucial questions of whoever is going to be leading a press conference and normally it's only 23 Jordan actually get a question and so often we're all you know desperate to be the ones that get it enough.

This is worked out for the conference actually takes place, so it's not like you put your hand up.

Random the often know in advance either going to pick so, how's that worked out between you and whoever is organising the press conference well yesterday for example.

I went to one John Healy the defence secretary here in London and we're all in a WhatsApp group in the mod.

Just send us a message and said who wants to to ask a question and I was have my replied very quickly and and got to ask it usually it might be the question from a certain journalist and therefore the and one of your day been in situations where you're the one deciding.

Yes, we tried to add NATO to to have a balance obviously trying to give an opportunity to all the countries if they want in One media pool for instance to be in another one in the next meeting for instance at the Summit or a ministerial meeting.

But we always got a lot of push bike especially from the delegations of the countries because of course Media come as travelling press president of the United States or with a present a fraction and they all want their own photographer their own cameraman, and so we would have some some tough negotiation we also had tough negotiations with the Russians I mean the first Data summit that I attended a spokesperson in 2010 at Lisbon one of my top of jobs was to negotiate with the Russians to have part of the NATO Russia Dmitry medvedev was President and I had to tell them though my brother cannot breathe the media before the set of general of NATO and President Obama for pushing for them to come out first and this is how they both inside but also in terms of Media they want to have the advantage of the first mover and that desire.

Have the first move you say the Russians were doing that or try to do that at the Summit Inn Lisburn would they try and do that more broadly wherever the summit is going whatever the story is would that be a priority to them to get their perspective on whatever is happening out first absolutely and you can see that in every meeting at all levels and you could see that in reality that was very clear to me.

You're from the pooling arrangement you could see that the Russian foreign ministry the Russian Media what's the fastest in distributing those images so that even Western news agencies were using the Russian pool images because of course what is its take for them.

Is this image Russia and the US on a path sitting at the same table the big world powers carving out the world's in the Russian view because they were especially.

President Obama singing in 2014 that Russia was just a regional power so ever since they wanted to project that that image and a lot of what we hearing now is how countries individual leaders are trying to shape the world's perspective on what is happening, but I'm imagining Wonder and you'll be part of this equation to but I'm imagine one is sometimes wear your name for an individual country what you're putting in the media isn't for broader consumption is aimed at one particular leaders such as Donald Trump happened back in 2019 in January 2019 when I went with a set of general of NATO at the time in Stockton to Washington have a meeting at the White House we had meetings with other officials but we wanted to pass on the message to President Trump himself and we did that by doing a single interview during that.

Enterprise with the Fox Fox News because when you like everybody else that President Trump watches watches fox and you can see that in the current administration lots of the senior officials or actually fox or fox commentators, so that was a period back in 2019 there were lots of Media reports.

How President Trump had perhaps wanted to leave NATO previously that was a very serious discussion and the message that we had President Trump had possibly clear message on defence spending he was actually right that NATO allies were not spending enough on defence that message had been heard NATO allies were going to invest 100 billion more in defence as a result of that very clear messaging from trump and so you decide.

Deliver that message via a fox news program directly to the president you decided that was your your tactic if you like to get that message across Lewes Road wonder if you ever feel you're being a by a sauce where you feel ok.

This is not necessarily for the broader Times readership here.

This is something that designed to reach one other person verbs.

Sorry, did I just say that just soon after that interview President Trump tweeted actually saying his had resonated and NATO allies was spending more than ever and one more United than ever so sorry that message was delivered here.

The residue carry on to give us to predict the sort of key themes that they want to push in order to appeal to Donald Trump you know for the UK they want to show that you know we are setting up our defence spending and try and show that the Ukraine war has implications for the US and it's all types of China and it could you know in Boldon China to try and invade Taiwan if we if we don't win against Russia and Ukraine and so I think we are you know we are used in that way to really try and get a message across to the key players such as trump and in the same way.

Zelensky.

You know he's got a seat at the table in his most recent talks and the only way that he's able to get that message across to trump at the moment apart from obviously through some of his senior officials is by talking.

You're making it clear what ukraine's point of Us you're with your defence editor with the tires while and just goes a former NATO spokesperson listening to your boat is David remnick of the New Yorker David you very welcome on the media show we're going to talk to you at length in a minute about your magazine, but the New Yorker of coursework stay longer deadlines, then then daily news so I wonder when the briefing is going on around fast-moving stories such as the one that seeing this week.

Do they pay The New Yorker attention of they trying to shape the longer-term view of what's happening.

They do sometimes but obviously much more likely to on a minute-by-minute basis pretending to daily newspapers and websites in the rest.

It is extraordinary to listen to an excellent defence correspondent for the times and it is seasoned and Wise diplomat from from NATO and talking very calmly and rationally.

When in fact this conversation and I think both with would agree is a deeply chaotic for president United States as well as we speak Donald Trump just said zelensky better move faster.

He's not going to have a country left the label.

Zelensky dictator and Road on truthsocial.

I love you crying but he has done a terrible job this country is shattered and millions have unnecessarily died to hear this does not make me very proud of us is which is the power office in journalist opening and what's going on here? Is you have a president in the United States elected by the people who is not moving the Overton window about our understanding about what happened with Ukraine and Russia but shattering it and Burn It to the ground and obliterating all sense of true.

This is the issues about how to slide into press conference in solana, or I think she would agree or not an important but the uber subject here is the president of United States siding with Russia in the most of the way and turning American policy morality on its head.

Is there anything to all of us and that leads me to a question? I was minded to ask you as I was coming into the studio which is when weeks of this consequence happen.

We are still feeling away in terms of the detail of what is happening one of the calculations for journalists and the Editors is not just how do we get the most immediate information and pass it on but what is the land we use to describe the scale of what we're saying because in the moment it can be hard to assess what if I do get County Council timing again and we tell ourselves time.

Trying to figure this out now for the second time because the second term how to cover Donald Trump and you have this conversation all the time in the United States and I'm sure you doing Britney Spears not to grab the shiny object.

Do you feel this phrase all this time you no trouble tweak something and we shouldn't go to react to that affects policy affects history trump goes in front of the world and not improvisers, but rather has written down in an oz to the world that he would like to get a sense ethnically cleanse Gaza and to build a beautiful Riviera in Gaza and speaks of an issue.

That is so historical troubles and blood served as is the arab-israeli conflict in terms of a real estate deal in the language of a real estate deal this makes it very very difficult for all of us.

It's a diplomat NATO with great experience or were defence correspondent to discuss these things in rational terms figure out on a day-to-day basis in a weekly basis in a monthly basis, how best to inform the public and what language to use it is not an easy thing because it's not it is without precedent or at least for a very long time.

You will let's bring in one and the one the first of all from a diplomatic perspective.

How does NATO is an organisation? How do you as a spokesperson as a communications expert approach the challenge of finding the appropriate language to describe? What's happening with end with a cool head because I think with President Trump both in the first and now even more so in the second term.

We have this everything everywhere all at once flood the zone approach.

So there's a lot coming at you at night because of he works at night but also throughout the day so it's very easy to be Punch-Drunk until the actor in the way to every punch in terms of NATO NATO does not have the luxury of choosing the leaders of its 32 allies so the Secretary General of NATO have to work with every leader and because their job is to keep the transatlantic family together ultimately the fundamental remain that we are stronger together than alone at this is a dangerous world in Europe and North America are better off working together and again the way we did.

During the first time was to try to step back away from the rhetoric and to look at the key messages which were not always wrong in terms of spending in terms of Europe's dependence on Russian gas in terms of dealing with a challenge of China and then do something about it in a way that would strengthen rather than we can it so that's how you would approach it from a NATO perspective Larissa when you're writing articles first and foremost you tried to assemble the facts and place them in context but you're also looking for language to capture for your readers the scale of what is happening.

How do you judge that? How do you approach the challenge with David reading it was just what's my job to check the facts as you saying and try and get to the to the truth in all of it and when when trump comes out and says something and it's actually false and obviously want to be.

To actually you're right about the reality of the situation and and just give you an example of something extraordinary last week in Munich was trumpet announced it the US and Russian officials were meeting Munich on Friday and everybody else speaking to you with saying we don't know anything about this meeting and everyone trying to find out where was taking place and actually two different sources told me to to government official said I'm actually thinking I have just made it up and you have never had to write something like that when I've had one British government Trump's made up and another official and that just shows that were extraordinary times we we are actually in and also that you know the crucial role of journalists and all of this but the Russell Brand we appreciate your time on such a busy day and one of them.

Just go thank you very much indeed Russell Brand is the defence editor of the time one of them.

Just go is the former NATO spokesperson, how the job.

For 13 years longer than anyone else before her David remnick editor of The New York and you are staying with us because we can talk more broadly about your magazine which is celebrating its anniversary and I suppose before I go any further I should say congratulations to you and your colleagues for reaching such a milestone.

Thank you before we talk about the the magazine.

Let me ask you one further about trump as you brought the subject up and the challenges up a moment ago to what degree when something of this scale is happening in America whether you support it or a post to it is nonetheless and clearly substantial to what degree do you feel obliged to turn your magazine towards it and to look at in the Iron to what degree do you see your magazine is an opportunity to say to Americans and your other readers.

There is a broader world beyond the the political White Heat that we're witnessing at the moment.

I think we're capable of doing both in Majorca 100 years ago began.

It's a comic paper is Harold Ross of Ganda called it was it was meant to be a human magazine originally but as the years went by it and why did immensely in its purpose and its sensor boarding essays and commentary and so I don't have the same job as the editor of The New York Times every very different publication in the times of the post but on the other hand.

I just sent a background for me.

I share this with one about the I'm sure she's considerably younger, but I spent 88 99991 living in Moscow and in a world where free speech in the Press were developing in ways that are hard to describe to my younger colleagues a sense of Incredible promise and now to live in the United States were my president and vote for him, but my president describes the

What is the Enemy of the people in his share content for an institution like nadeau is destabilising to say the least and so I think the New Yorker is duty-bound write this from all kinds of angles with penetrating thinking about also with with the reporting.

So I'm not in I respect daily newspapers for 10 years of the Washington Post but I'm not here to chase the daily mouse.

That's dead that requires doing but to do things over a little bit longer deadline many people listening will know the New York as some may not know it so well.

It's become associated with its cartoons with its long reads with its wide-ranging cultural coverage with publishing fiction and without replacing New York in American Life the media organisation semaphore describes it as a brand that sits atop American intellectual culture across literary fiction and liberal politics.

Do you recognise that that's nice to hear I think we're as my brother that reminded magazine in many ways, but god knows we don't just talk to ourselves and when you're passing and deciding as the editor who you do talk to what stories you do cover considering that why dream it that I just outlined give us an insight into a day's the editor of The New Yorker what do you have to do each morning? What are you considering this job? Which country to popular belief is fishing a job like mine is not spending all day.

I'm deciding whether the proper word.

Is that or which there are grammatical rules for that but whatever that's for me.

That's for night time during the day.

I'm thinking about the pieces.

We need the riders to push the podcast episodes to broadcast planning and thinking and looking at the world in.

With our reporters and talking to people out in the field and getting a sense of what we should be doing but short term because we do have a website that post things constantly during the day or longer-term.

So this is a magazine that on the one hand it didn't break the news that there an atomic bomb have been dropped on Hiroshima the wire services did data the radio or BBC CBS whatever it might be an but it was our job to send John Hersey Hiroshima and write a 30000 word piece about what happened and that was something that causes station in real time but also it's something that people read to this day now.

We can achieve that every week.

That's that's it.

That's a pretty tall order but I want to make sure they're just play Timothy Garton Ash was writing about central and Eastern Europe in the late 80s that will be doing that kind of work and investigative reporting as well that has.

Currency in the moment but lasting value as well as Mum goes longer pieces of which the New Yorker is very much associate with help us understand the process of making them your fame for your fact-checking department your face for the number of queries that are raised as a ride to go through the process, but just help us understand how to send in the first draught, it's 10000 words for however long the pieces what happens then and then here she sits down with the Editors read at least once right away and they have discussions about work to be done on it.

They are copyrighted and something called wildly ok, so that's ok.

We should I do but it's the mission is clear not a Rob the writer of History Boys with clarity.

This is a very high premium hear any other very high premium is accuracy and fairness we have 28 factors.

Play the young people who may be encountered some of these factors over time to her inspiration VJ there's not just to make sure that you spell a complicated name correctly I get the dates right but also took all the sources and say it true that you said is it true is there more contacts that you have about xy&z because as every anybody that knows anything about the present information is not just is it 1967 and 1968 is who are we are looking for what may or may not be distorted hear.

What are the sources of information leads us to print it is also an expensive is an expensive business and it's business to go through that.

Are you concerned that?

All Americans but an increasing number of Americans don't put a premium on whether the content they consume is factually correct as a course of concerns me of course it concerns me that this image disinformation and misinformation out in the world that's accelerated by social media and all the instruments that are available to everyone now that they weren't before the notion that the net effect of social media is merely democratising is it's much more complex to recognise but at the same time.

I think people are hungry or it some people are a lot of people are hungry places where they can read things that are with the highest value was on accuracy and fairness in deep reporting that is not take on the ground with a stick on the ground.

Is a person ship banality attack distortion the use of information or misinformation as a weapon that's not a businessman.

I'm in the queen of Peace the business and if you're asking me if it's hard you damn right.

It's hard I circulation as you know was 1.2 million and 1.3 million and I hope it'll grow you can subscribe it New York reed.com and and god bless you.

If you do you've been at the publication for a good one and I'm interested to hear your reflections on how the business that you're in charge of has evolved and must just know before we go onto that just clear up exactly wouldn't ok is because they're going to be people listening on Radio 4 right now thinking maybe I need no caring my business.

Help us understand the role what precisely is an okr doing an ok is a higher version of copying everything as you know that in which in this sentence ok, as if they're good at are giving a final read that is aimed at Clarity and Direction and interaction and vague wording and things that could be that much clearer.

Is there people it's like somebody who can tune a piano without it turning for people who are really turned into language and repetition and just just the act of clarity and accuracy it's it's it's expensive and it takes time listening is inspired and appointing ok and within their business with very interested to hear from you here.

I will leave you to know I want to understand the challenges both as an editable, so someone who's part of the running.

Business as well how the New York has had to change during the quarter of a century that you have edited it because the magazine that you took over and the magazine that you are running now.

I took a different beast operating an unrecognisable Media landscape.

So if you had to pick out two or three of the main shifts you've had to insist on.

What would they be the internet and the engineer that changed everything so I took over the New Yorker in 1998 from Gina Brown from I was a writer and had a great relationship and she had done a lot to inject a life into the New Yorker make sure that it wasn't just admire red.

It's important thing print advertising has been declining slowly slowly play since the late 60s reasons that we know television all the rest but then it really you know the decline became precipitous and we had to make what I call a necessary.

We had to go to our readers and say Innocence Mark you can get this magazine for next to nothing anymore.

You have to pay for it.

You have to pay as much as a cup of coffee a week and that's me a very good deal a decent cup of coffee latte or Cortana got a bit of a cup of coffee and for that you will get a daily website is the has swiftness and I hope Wisdom and reporting and you will also get but we always provide on a weekly basis and access to podcast in an immensely Richard bring up the New Yorker the price of cup of coffee once a week and you can get all over the world you can get it when you're selling it as quickly as I get it and that was a change so we had to figure out when I started we publish 12 things a week some cartoons in a cover.

That's what we did and we were well known for their pretty good at it and now he had it all these other components and how.

Deal with that in terms of the culture of the place the activity of the riders the way we went about covering the world in and all the rest it so it took time I can imagine that it did and as you'll be well aware the subject of who made take over from you at some point is one that comes up an awful.

Lot so before reported this year the New Yorker succession latest North they went on each year each top executive at One World Trade Centre headquarters submits a shortlist of 46 people who could replace them the list remain secret but none draws more intense speculation than the one assembled by New Yorker editor David remnick, you are you are of course aware of the speculation does it increase affect how you how you leave the magazine no, I I read it with all the energy that end in that speculation is just because I had a birthday.

I had the kind of birthday when you get a cheaper riding the subway and a cheaper ticket at the movies.

Appreciate a mentally but I give all my energy to this none of us lives forever, but every other accounting estimates this list every year because you know you might get it by bus and so it's a proper thing to do.

How are you celebrating the 100? They can only imagine the New York party that is being thrown by drinks will be drinks will be happy.

Do you proud David thank you very much for making time for us.

Please come back on the media show again soon.

I really appreciate it.

Thanks for having me.

Thank you David editor of The New Yorker now.

If you're listening to Katie on last week's edition of the media show you know that we've started the series of profiles of some of silicon Valley's most influential people people who is shaping how Media is made how it and how it's consumed by to understand the businesses they lead the products they make but also what these tech leaders are hoping to achieve and this week.

Sam Altman CEO of open AI to help us here is Mike Isaac technology correspondent for the New York Times Mike thank you very much indeed for joining us take us back to when Sam Altman stepped into the first stages of his career because he was an entrepreneur at the Beginning his trajectory was very similar to a lot of the big popular mythology stories of here.

Which is moved out to California to go to Stand red.

One of the now infamous feeder schools to start a plan and after couple years dropped out in basically wanted to found into his started called Luke which now see you in history, but if you remember back years ago.

There is a cheque in app on smartphones for swear.

That was not aware of this sort of.

Second time was very existence not what it once was but I looked was very similar to that it was not a successful app required.

He made a few million dollars and made his fortune fortune Valley terms and and his way to what is called ycombinator which is the Startup incubator in Silicon Valley and I think that is really well.

He started getting connected to you know how navigate to Valley m.

Bunch of folks and invest in companies and help other startups grow with those connections then have directly led to the formation of open AA which he was involved in along with a number of people including that most importantly Elon Musk get 100-percent.

I think back in 2010 22.

He was consulting with a large different account is very famous people.

I want ycombinator is actually is actually super influential startups like an airbnb start a y combinator right.

So they grow from this tiny startup into huge things and because of that a lot of different type pandas.

Come through there.

They talk to that include the Mark Zuckerberg Danny landmass of the world in the president of ycombinator.

Got to know I'm going through there and that is when he became the Struggle for friendship with Elon Musk and him and a number of other very technical super you know I focused people ended up deciding they want to find open AI as a non-profit at the time and they did and a number of years later chat GPT was released.

Huge impact does people listening will be well aware of and increasingly.

It's assume the AI in the advanced forms that it will reach will have huge ramifications for the 80s that we live in I want to talk about that, so he is Sam Altman reflecting on these bigger issues in 2022.

I cannot make it impacts are huge and I think it's like if it if it is as divergent is I think it could be for like some people doing incredibly well and others not I think Society just want to hold it this time.

It's a figuring out when were gonna like disrupt so much of economic activity and even if it's not all disrupted by 2013.

I think it'll be here that was all going to be what like is the new social contract like how my gas is the things that won't have to figure out or how we think about really disturbing well access to a GI system.

Will be like the committee of the wrong and governance like are we collectively decide what they can do what they don't do things like that at Sam opening in 20-22 might before we go any further with the reference data Agi which is artificial general intelligence just explain to us what that concept is as opposed to say I is not spending about right now and at its core.

It is training a computer to think like a human.

What's a simple or a I right now has very strict set of rules in Old they have specific datasets that they learn by zlata limitations and where AI is today and so their ideal is Agi artificial general intelligence to train computers to have the sort of faculties that you are.

I might have in the reasoning and the time.

Which is I still think quite a ways off if we ever get there sort of like this constant target, but it's the go for a lot of people are here.

I want to understand that goes a little bit better because I know Sam Altman has invested in a pilot scheme for something called universal basic income.

We've also heard references to universal basic computer.

There's a lot of terms of acronyms.

Just help us understand it in the simplest terms you can because this is this is certainly complicated for me to follow.

What is the type of society he thinks he can help to create with his work on a I don't worry.

It's ok for me to and I was here but I think the Foundation of what he's talking.

I guess the presupposition is AI is going to be so transformative in a what people can do is it what tzatziki is going to be able to do that it will depend.

Future of work looks like what past humans are even needed to do anymore.

What people jobs are going to look like which jobs will still exist in the future NN3 short amount of time so with that in incense mind comes a bunch of appeal whether that's economical people people societal of people just like changing rapidly takes advantage of this.

I think Like You the point of the Internet it's just going to happen quickly, so this is technological, but there is something intensely personal about Sam altman's working experience in it all connect back to Elon Musk the two of them were involved in the creation of open AI and some of you listening may have seen in the last week or so Elon Musk another.

Attempted to buy open a I promise 100 billion something with Sam Altman and others not back in here is what Sam Altman has had to say in the last week.

When is the position of insecurity about XIII-2 the president and you can influence the decision-making of of the US presidency and and policies around this agenda on a I maybe I should but nothing at the moment Bloomberg and my from the New York Times to what degree does this one relationship between these two men impact on the broader development of technology that will all be using the pretty rough way for same to this salon in public, but I think that's the state of the relationship right now which is there instead of just going back and forth and trying desperately.

Control of a break after he left the company years ago when they disagreed on the direction of should go I do think this type of competition really does define how they are being created right now.

You know there's Google there's there's xai which Elan is running there's charge ebt.

There's and drop it doesn't really different companies that are buying for supremacy here in building, but only the dominant AI company but Agi and how to run it and Elon is just checking grenades trying to mess with her and left because he finds them the most compelling in most powerful, so I do think we have to pay attention to whether that's the legal gel staying or even deserve immature is allowed the time basically we appreciate your help.

Thank you very much indeed.

That's Mike Isaac technology correspondent for the New York Times we should also mention the story with cover the number of times on the media, show that the new Auto

doing open AI for copyright infringement of news content relating to AI systems open AI and Microsoft to deny these claims and of course will continue to cover that story as it develops now if you want to see a couple of weeks ago in the media show you know we talked about new research on gen Z commissioned by Channel 4 gen Z being the generation of people born between 1997 and 2012 aged between 13 and 28 and 58% of gen Z respondents said they considered social media posts from Friends to be as and sometimes more trusted than establish communism 52% said they thought the UK would be better off if a strong leader was in charge who doesn't have to bother with parliament and elections the survey also found that this generation is more like the trust influencers than older Generations what the research was commissioned by Channel 4 channel4.com Alex main joined us in the media show studio before we discuss again more reaction to the

He she is outlining them.

They're hyper-connected and they have been their whole lives are getting hundreds of alerts a day.

So they're really used to that.

They're really used to being able to search out and seek all available information however there aren't simple ways to differentiate fact from fiction and one of the impacts of that is at the concept of trust as we would know hierarchal.

Trust is collapsing definition of what truth is his quite hard for them to grapple with you in the studio are Stephanie safety Stephanie tech reporter in graduate trainee with the Financial Times and Hilary Hilary Gerry Maher chief executive officer of Sundar which is a platform helping recruit younger people into the media industry.

You're very welcome here and Stephanie and Hillary what did you make of the findings of that report? I think the they were pretty shopping especially around Democracy in having a strong leader.

I also had questions about you know the kind of questions were asked of Dessie and the kind of grouping together of gen Z is a whole as one generation.

I think probably I imagine there's a probably a divide between the kind of young people who lost their entire educational experience 16 secondary school to covid and the older half of gen Z didn't have that.

I think it kind of made me want to look deeper into what this generation even it is and what it means the overarching issue of trust is undeniable, but I think it's far more complex than maybe some of the factors mentioned in the overarching research in a lot of the analysis of that research technology was being referenced constantly.

Do you think it's fair that your Generations experiences are understood through the prism of the

The new technology which you had access to in previous generations haven't done.

I think this is important to note it, but I think it's possible to maybe put too much name on-screen.

I think we should also be looking at other economic factors that gender had experienced and should have been looking at if we concerned about gender thoughts and feelings what we can do for them to technology as part of the equation, but not necessarily all of it.

I'd say it technology some stuff and it's alright.

It's allowed as a demographic audience have access to more information and so it's yeah, is it opened up wider issues to infrastructure and not so much technology? That's the issue.

It's wider issues as I mention prayer what your experience is being from gen z and being based.

I think the Financial Times

Happy to be described as a legacy news organisation has been around for a long time of course.

What are your experiences of of working in a long-established Newsroom gen z and long-standing Newsroom is probably not that different to a new joiner form any previous generation.

I think you know companies like the Financial Times are trying to move with the keep up with gen z and that has meant but I've been in a tiktok for the ft as well as you know doing traditional writing but I think one thing that I value for the DFT provides and the new Legacy Media provides is that trust that we were talking about and I think you know like as mentioned.

You know people in the oven have a very personalised Media environment when you just see the things from the people you follow and I think I should have figure out how you can have a new shed reality instead truth is

And a very interesting experience as well because there's a recruiter you're both dealing with people wanting to come into the media, but also dealing with media businesses who are looking to recruit younger people.

Tell me about the expectations of both sides of the equation if I start from a younger from the youngest I'd like looking to enter in for them.

It's like they want to be a part of an organisation where they feel like they're adding impact and so it's in terms of the qualities from what they're looking for it in their employees.

It's it's it's company culture, but it's yet.

How how can we be a part of something that you know whether it's from a purple standpoint or sorry.

It's interesting that would be an expectation for the moment.

They arrive because you could imagine some junior staff arriving in an organisation thinking maybe I'm having back in time, but I've got to work my way up.

100-percent and that's how it should be right, but it's more about is that the infrastructure in place where you feel like you're being valued and I think that's important right and and and they are from the other side like my clients who are looking to hire there equally looking for individuals who are Supra active and ideas and going to Natalie challenge then I think that's why there's this you know and you were saying yes, that's like even like the Financial Times at the little to hide that's because they want your ideas and new perspectives.

I think that's equally important what you're describing their from both sides of the equation that sounds like Steph is Polly about culture within use all those stations within Media organise things that they are willing to to listen to younger members of staff that's definitely true.

I think you know when we talk about 10 see maybe we should be asking them more questions rather than sometimes the

Pointing and laughing yeah, that's do you know when your placing people within organisations that some have a reputation for being more open to listening to the younger members of staff than others naturally I think you know every organisation is different.

I can't speak on behalf of all, but I'd say it starts from like The Foundations like you know who who are the decision.

What does that look like and then that kind of translates from how responsive they are very very interested in talking to you.

I'm going to come back to this issue.

Many many times in the future.

That's it for this edition of the media.

So thank you very much indeed to Stephanie Stacey from the ft and to Hillary Jeremiah from Sunday thank you indeed to you for listening will be back next week.