Read this: White House press access; Kursk documentary; Jeff Bezos' new rules for the Washington Post

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This is the media show from BBC Radio 4 this week will hear from school winner on what it's like to be in the middle of the Sunday night Media frenzy in La you up-to-date on what the BBC has and hasn't said about it's Gazza documentary.

There is a story.

Not yet run its course, we'll look at new rules for opinion pieces at the Washington Post set by Jeff bezos and speaking to be Amazon boss will be the focus of our latest profile of a major a new documentary about the sinking of Russia's kursk submarine in 2000 was issued about Media Freedom in Russia then and now will be joined by the director of that film we're going to start there in the US on Tuesday evening Donald Trump gave a major speech to Congress outlining what he says he's achieved and what he plans to do and as ever these moments Post Quest for the media about how to cover the event and Mr trump not least because in his speech is the president rutini says things that aren't true aren't based on available evidence or I miss it of course not a new challenge though the media had years to consider how best to report when President Trump is giving a speech sorted.

They do Max tiny Media data set of 7 for under lighting.

Here to unpack this for us you were watching at how did the different networks cover it do they broadcast the in full did they get fat checked during all after it? Just just please l'absolu all the networks Trump's address in for has is as normal and of course it was also available at to be streamed on your website and streamed on YouTube broadcast by the various media companies that other was checking that some different networks, did you see that always does a fact check after several minutes after trump speech your times was also updating their Factor in on a life and of course some of them or right meaning that works like fox and others I didn't run with the pack didn't say thank you very much indeed stay with this because

Has a number of different stories relating to the US media and Donald Trump and get to specific case studies about how the white house is interacting with the media and how the media is responding to my house first of all let's look at an announcement from last week by the White House that it plans to determine which news outlets have access to the president taking control for the White House Correspondents Association after more than a century so the White House will the term in which outlets participate in what's called the pool that covers presidential events and shares material with other media outlets when I speak to you Jim Daniels a journalist politico and the president of the White House Correspondents association and Eugene thank you very much for being with us.

Just first of all explain for our listeners, how the system works.

Don't understand there's always a good girl is called the press pool cover every presidents move a video with their colleagues were not there to the American people so if the president goes to Paris there with him the president goes tomorrow the we're just at The Lighthouse theatre Poole waiting for when the White House says there is a go to the cover that so that's happened been going on for and Association has organised before rotated every day and this is not the first white house that has wanted to take that over there always talk about this internally but they rely on even with trump realised in the first time was that the people that are doing should co-ordinate that in that the people who are being covered in that has been something that's gone on for years and and then they decided to change that work and do what that actually means.

Honest access them only for the American people information well, what does it mean does it mean that President Trump and his colleagues can choose process by which journalists are within this Paul exactly what it means means that in any given day the president is under pressure steam who's doing in organising this will take whoever they want to put them in that you know they are in some of the constituency groups that we have and in the pool there kind of disease and the listing the groups that we have also have expanded to include other people who are pulling who are sending that information out in there.

Are there unilaterally we as in association have always said to wait houses were all about a game of addition and subtraction right so of presidents in their team want to bring people in that's fine.

It's when you start cutting.

Sowden yourself with them, but they can only be so big presumably for practical reasons and wouldn't the principal residence team point of the fact that the media is classified in a whole range of ways in the last 1020 years and so it's appropriate to the nature of the pool adapt accordingly.

That's right.

We have we used to have a map of something that was called the new media see but now everybody is doing the meteorite.

Everyone's doing podcast and everyone to doing our newsletters with added organizations from the left and the right into our organisation in a part of the rotation of our hosts and that's been going on for years though.

It's not that the White House Correspondents husband keeping out every single news organisation has come up and that's not the truth.

I work right now is a new organisation.

100 + years of the White House Correspondents association and we have been an active member of the poor for a very long time.

See you in the pool is adapting but this decision by the White House on the pool in longside other decisions relating to media access to the White House into the president we know there's been an issue for the white house over the associated press one of the world's biggest news agencies over the naming of the Gulf of America is Donald Trump has renamed the Gulf of Mexico as some other people call it.

How do you feel when the White House target individual news organisations such as the AP as a group of journalists operating in the White House really have feelings about it in there an active mitigation over this the white house and associated.

I want to get it out of that people would imagine that you do have feelings that the white house is taking a quite different approach to the media which is covering Mr

Activities Association it's not have feelings about things but disgusting have the back and forward with the white house in more importantly the needs of our members in so what I would say is that you know we provide statements the second that the associated press start being blocked from different events and what we said then is that no government officials should be telling news organizations, what they can and can't say that is has been through for since the very beginning of the founding of America right to freedom of the press that present now to make their own editorial decisions and more importantly.

They shouldn't be blocked because of those editorial decisions.

Thank you very much indeed for joining us Eugene with politico.

He's also the president of the White House Correspondents Association well, let's now look as case study if you like in terms of how the media is interacting in this new world.

I'm going to look at one of the best.

News organisations the Washington Post because just before the election last year it decided not to endorse a candidate a decision that cause flora.

You might remember that it has been expected Carmela Harris it didn't and now it's only Jeff bezos has changed.

It's policy on opinion articles to in an email to staff he said we are going to be writing everyday support and defence of two Pillars personal liberties and free-market will cover other topics to of course but viewpoints opposing those Pillars will be left to be published by others went on there was a time when a newspaper especially one that was a local Monopoly might have seen it as a service to bring to the readers doorstep every morning a broad-based opinion section that sought to cover all views today the internet does that job and then he made one more point he said I also believe these viewpoints are underserved in the current market of ideas and news opinion.

I'm excited for us together.

Fill that void well, it's reasonable to say not everyone shared Mr businesses excitement, let's the Washington Post opinion editor resigns immediately Cameron bar, Washington managing editor from 2015 to 2023 and also someone who remain as an associate ey senior associate editor since then also chose to end his work with the post and Cameron weather's on the media show now, thank you very much for your time.

Why did you take this decision from there was a kind of the last straw you mentioned The Killing of the endorsement of their also some things that Jeff has done publicly that I was uncomfortable with one was says if you serve tweed of congratulations to the re elected Donald Trump and the other was appearing so prominently the inauguration and those action struck me as as demonstrating a lack of independence from power lack of restraint technique is a necessity for an owner of an

Kitchen like the Washington Post which is set up to hold power to account to hold the president to account so I decided that was enough for me was a very personal decision was a difficult decision, but it was it was time for me to say I no longer wish to be associated with the post even in the in the role of a senior associate at her which is as you know that it was as part-time arrangement of followed my my career there.

Would you go as far as Marty pan and former editor of the Washington Post the man? I'm sure you know very well Marty Baron said I don't think that there's else wants and edit page that regularly going after Donald Trump do you think that's true? I want to give us some credit in my years of the Post he was in my view and exemplary owner he gave The Newsroom that distance and needed to do its job and he stood up too many attacks from the president that I think were triggered by the posts coverage of him and so

I think it's reasonable to assume that the Jeff bezos has decided he's had enough of all that he doesn't need to a bear the Brunt of the kind of pressure and attacks that were that were forced upon him in the earlier trump presidency sitting aside was Atkins in the media show studio here in London I just want we going to be a more later in terms of his backstory is one of the profiles that we do every week, but you said that he didn't know it wasn't like this before you work with him for 8 years as managing director tell us how involved he was in The Newsroom through that period for example not very that part of the point is that you know I think you should have restraining distance in those years.

He supported the post.

He made Investments he hated us greatly in our capacity to keep her technology up-to-date into server.

Probably technologically but he was then the editor he let my dear and The Newsroom in the way that Maltese off it and that was to his credit, so I was told there was a Row 3 knows just explain about encapsulation of a way of describing just independent so he had never been shown a story before publication.

He never criticise the story after publication and he never told us we had to do a story about anything so I buy was a candy to succeed Maria interview does Jeff bezos for that bro.

I asked him to recommit to the three nose and he did and that was gratifying to me seniors card actions and especially with regard to his treated the opinion section of the post the editorial page.

I see a lack of restraint and kind of inter.

He promised us he would never engage in when you bought the the place from the Graham family in 2013 and you were saying just a little bit earlier this dramatic change giving us some insight as to why but could you leave it on that at all.

Why do you think now? He's changed his position question I wish I could be inside his head.

I can only inferred that in looking at the first trump administration looking at this one that just wants to conduct himself differently he may be interested in safeguarding the interests of Amazon he may be interested in safeguarding the interest for further into the intracellular space company blue origin.

It's really hard to say hasn't said much as an answer that question publicly, so I don't know the answer to your question.

I do know there's been a shift in his conduct and clearly for you coming this isn't working you've written back.

Time is coming to sell the Washington Post to someone who will allow its Missionaries to do their jobs.

Is that your definitive position then someone who's worked very closely with him for a number of years very quickly moving to you should sell up.

Just caveat.

I wouldn't say work very closely just kept his distance from The Newsroom and so that didn't give us a great amount of contact with him.

Just speak Sandra play about the importance of mission in organisations is especially true in journalism.

This is why journalism do the work is because they believe in it and forgive to control to limit to abridge the embassy of the editorial page dampens mission and kind of crushes the spirit of the place and I do want the spirit of the place is alive and well the news report is fantastic.

Some of the most rigorous reporting on the beginning of this trump administration has come from the Post Newsroom and its editorial.

So hard at it, so I want to express my admiration for my phone work colleagues.

I also wanted to draw line for myself beyond which I did not feel comfortable going former coach of the Washington Post please stay with this but I'd like to bring my tiny from semaphore back in Max we were talking there with Cameron about this shift in terms of how opinion articles will pivot Washington Post UK audiences.

Can you explain to us the way us newspapers do approach the positioning of opinion because it's very different from what we do here in the UK a course in the US traditionally newspapers news organisations.

Have a very clear several sets of very clear lines, won between editorial and business size of company within editorial those between The Newsroom and your opinion writers so folks such as myself.

I'm you know I'm in Edinburgh over the newsroom.

It's

Expected that even if I have my own personal use about something that it's not I'm not I'm going to leave those aside from the actual coverage and leave you know the opinions to Folkestone the kind of opinions are the different in the UK and in which some of those ideologies political ideologies or baked into the The Newsroom said that the lines are less clear of the reason of Us by this.

I wouldn't said only us on the media show who are interested is this sense that this what's happening is part of a broader trend of news organisations who are just do a new president and a new world.

Can you just brought it out for us and tell us more about that? Yeah, absolutely the two most notable examples of course the post in which she took days is very probably I tried to realign the opinion section you're not it's not quite clear.

What exactly these new guardrails are anime nor tail.

Of course the la times on on the west coast, where are the papers owner Patrick soon-shiong has been kind of doing a very interesting doing a mirror of what's going on in your head has attempted to balance the editorial side is introduced on this thing called voices essentially in which he's tried to bring in different flavours of commentators and interestingly an up included in a a summary presenting the opposite view of what's going on in the news editorials was just rolled out this week, but does that feel like a response to the new President because I guess what I'm asking.

There is what's wrong with that lots of different voices putting opinions of of course well.

You know crucially Patrick's Telford decided not to not to endorse of course the paper had endorsed democratic presidents going back several decades and he decided last minute before.

Barbados announced in the postman outside he wasn't going to indoors.

I decided not to have an endorsement of of Harris and has seen kind of his authority has decided to rain in his editorial board of several members of the editorial board.

He's definitely making changes to to the editorial board try to bring on more conservative voices in some ways.

Yes, it's for the course but having an AI respond in the actual article to the to the writing itself.

That's what is the new innovation Max's bring in Cameroon bar on that idea.

What do you think camera of the idea of AI being used to either summarise a counter argument to an opinion article or even to in some way great the type of political slant an opinion article might have to give a good idea.

There's been lots of fun really cool up what's been happening at the la times and it's 21 predictor but it's not.

It doesn't I don't think it addresses the the point that Patrick soon-shiong another think it address is 10 backup just a wee bit and say it make sense in the United States for son big news organisations to try to produce a nonpartisan a fact-based news report every day.

There is a difference between the US and Britain and Britain and that's cool, but frankly one of the reasons is you yourselves write the BBC offers that kind of functions that sort of baseline and has huge resources with which to do that and that provides a bed of facts that can help the society function Americans don't have that nearest to cover an NPR doesn't even come close in that's why it's important for big organisations like the New York Times like the Washington Post like some others to try.

Produce a non ideological account every day of what's going on in to do the importantly to do the investigation and the accountability of power that matters and help voters to understand.

What is happening in their Society and with their government well.

Thank you very much for senior managing editor of the Washington Post and make money from 74.

Thank you very much for coming on the media show this year marks the 25th anniversary of the kursk submarine disaster in Russia in August 2000 the nuclear submarine sank in the barents sea after a torpedo onboard exploded all 118 men on board with dye Russia's leader then as now with radomir Putin and as the world waited to the crew could be saved he delayed a rescue mission and initially declined foreign assistance and Katie actually cover this the time.

Yes, I did I was working with an amazing reporter at Channel 4 News foreign.

Gaby Rado who sadly at later died and I was boring producer and we spent a week even more first-in-man scan then in Moscow as it unfolding watching these dramatic scenes an awfully tragic scenes and seeing the families and the trauma that they went through and it became an enormous global Media story at the time which radomir Putin and everyone else involved in trying to reach that submarine would have been well aware of absolutely this was being reported around the globe.

Obviously not just on Channel 4 News but across across the world it really was a very significant story and where well yes, it will talk about it, but there was a lot more access to Russia and coverage of Russia perhaps.

There is now well the reason we're talking about this is a new Tupac documentary looks at the impact of disaster.

It's called kursk 10 days that shaped Putin and it raises important questions about Putin's approach to the media and many other issues to here's a clip from it a Bill Clinton

Was US President at the time I got it was a mistake present to distance himself from the problem people can the furchester Prague in different ways maybe a psychological maybe it's cold so maybe it's both.

I don't think it makes you weaker or that you accept up from people what Becky breed is director of kursk 10 days that shaped Putin it's produced by hiddenlight the production company founded by Hillary Clinton and Chelsea Clinton as we heard bill is featured.

That's the first time you've spoken about this and Becky we welcome to the media show because of the involvement of the Clintons both behind the production company and Bill Clinton's decision to take part should some level see this is a political piece of work.

Company didn't have any control of their project remember sky and her sister commissioned it didn't see the film during the making and the centrelink delivered and the for making tea made up of independent filmmakers drawn to you know all different types of stories for different reasons and for me I guess you know it was really that this was a kind of political thriller a human story that speaks there's so much about where we are today.

It's so you know I think the main thing main concerns remain impartial and make sure that from the outset we could tell a Russian story without it feeling to Western centric.

So you know that was one of the main things that was just ringing to make sure that we can include a breadth of contributors from every nation involved in the end of the film.

I think we have 6 Americans 5 Russians and for European so.

A really kind of Representatives are personal stories all the people in the film actually and the documentary argues, doesn't it that this disaster shaped to some degree Putin's view of the media in the documentaries we see this extraordinary press conference where Mothers of people trapped on the Submariner shouting at him.

What was cc's in terms of the impact the whole experience had on him and how he approached the media in Russia interested in looking at this Story 2 examined through the lens of this disaster and happy to manage this disaster.

What can we learn about the leader he was going to be and I think what we learnt through the process of making me feel really interesting everyone has different takes on Putin's actions at different moments, but we unanimous that this was something that you know.

The next 50-years with independent Media you know really was a form of events.

I think his first few months of power.

It was the Monday is the explosion happened on the Saturday and the Monday after that is 100 days in power.

So you know really early in a new President presidency and I think there's a film shown in episode 2 we play out exactly how to react what you learnt how he turns around this event come and very negative instead of starts to control listen to a more positive for him and go back onto reshaping independent press that as you mentioned.

You know pretty vibrant at that time in Russia Becky do just stay with us, but I want to bring in Francis car whose Russian Media expert BBC monitoring Francis welcome again.

We was delighted to have you on the media show just talking about how the intermediate at the beginning of Putin's presidency was independent independent.

Let out for us today.

They've they were independent.

They were however not independent in the way that you might imagine to be ideal in the western country.

They were very powerful private business interests lollipops that we control in the main TV channels and I think Putin one of the reasons why he clamp down on the channels afterwards was that he saw the TV channels as vehicles for the interest to these all the galaxies powerful man and he decided that if these TV channels were going to be criticising him.

They would be a benefit in the interests of businessman, who wanted to see his eventual downfall and so of course there was a pluralism which we don't see in Russia at all today.

Where are all of the main Media inside the country are controlled by the state and are aligned with the Gremlins do on the world but at the same time there was there was a number of years which nowadays you wouldn't hear.

Globally across the world as we're saying about it one of them others being in a needle.

Can we having having injected as she has she's complaining in a big press conference and then she should have taken the room for the fainted eventually also Comatose that kind of image did go everywhere.

Did you see the Becky's films thesis that the curse was a Turning Point do you agree with that thesis? Was it about the fact that these images went across the world and would it be damaging? I think so I mean even if you look at the the rescue operation to find the same as not all of them died in the initial explosion around I think 23 of them were later found to have died of suffocation making it to a specific compartment on the submarine Putin didn't want the UK and the Norwegian rescue efforts to be accepted because he was afraid that they would find out about.

What did the nature of the military exercise that was going on and so at the same time he didn't want the media to be uncovering things and to be criticising him and to be holding him and military leadership to account and it wasn't just you know there were two major Russian TV channels which were hamstrung effectively after this in in 2001 of them where an anchor came out with the scathing criticism of Putin saying that the the main conclusion to be drawn from the whole incident is that the government is lying to us and doesn't respect us and another channel which had a satirical puppet show where Putin was portrayed in various guises unflattering Lee and the TV channel was told effectively to remove booting as one of the characters and when they were used and their the channel was taken away from the ownership of one of these oligarchs and brought under Kremlin control.

Thank you for the moment Becky Reid director of this new documentary two-part documentary on.

The first disaster let's bring you back in you've already told us that you spoke too many families in Russia who are affected by there's how did you approach that given the current Media environment which people living within in Russia people the decision to include relatives unless you wanted to hear the stories.

I will say that many people have left Russia and all over the world so my two fabulous producers are able to track down here from all over the place and we managed this conversation very carefully everyone we spoke to his really was informed very clearly early on about the production company being Western you know Western production company to the founders were we didn't ask questions about the situation today.

We start break clearly to personal memories and opinions of those people have written about this publicly already and I think you know that this wasn't supposed.

Which are well known and you know very well covered at the time off so it felt like a timely moment you know to remember this Mariners I think really was the driving force of the people taking part in the top of this Becky it's the first time that Bill Clinton has spoken about this and it's in your documentary.

He says the Buddha Marin initially rejected help because he it would have exposed Russian national Security secrets.

Did you ask Bill Clinton or any other contributors about the weather the US would have accepted help given the four positions have been reversed task we did ask if you can choose that question and I think you know the response that you hope to give in the moment during interview that we would you know we want to transfer.

Any lives is the one that you'd hopefully I think it was on the other foot today.

They would you know I hope you don't have to have a test that I genuinely don't know whether we would let Russian military down to be out today and I'm just one question.

I know you were saying earlier about headlight and how the Clinton's film company wasn't involved at all really, but surely they helps you get Bill Clinton to do in his first interview on it didn't make it around the timing commission.

I think it's certainly helps having some of the access when we purchased any other people who work on it behind the scenes in the White House you know.

I'm going to be speaking with you.

No other people from their front from that time so I think you know certainly it's useful to have some really solid you know hi prophylaxis early on in the conversations were crucial for me an understanding of what happened to me.

That was never been told today and nothing is really quiet.

You know day and a half more than that of time where the Russians me, what happened and I wanted to find storage could tell us what was going on on those two days and the Americans new because this question to me that we try to answer.

What do you do with that information? You know almost certainly we can say that the Americans knew? What do you do about that becomes interesting diplomatic not wanting to blindside any President when it's embarrassing with this news now.

That's a really interesting and important part of the story to tell my memory of arriving was very much in the early very early stages definitely find it very difficult to get any information about about what has happened out of the Russians Becky read you have created a very compelling in powerful documentary.

Thank you very much for coming on and talk about it is a two-part documentary available to watch on Sky on Sky History Channel catch up services and Francis Just while you're here.

Just quickly because everyone listening will have seen the set to between Donald Trump JD Vance and Rodney is the last Friday how is the Russian Media presenter Mr szymanski after that well as you can imagine the absolutely laptop for quite some time.

They presented in a very very negative lights 11th presenter on on Russian TV said that she has turned up looking like a removals man and then had been thrown out by the sea.

Neck out of the white house and there now for train trump as a kind of positive actor in this whole story Jubilee School Story Who with whom.

They can do business with seeing the Russian foreign minister referring to the Americans as partners for the first time in quite a while while at the same time the Russian Media is saying that the ukrainians are no longer partners did to the Americans that said I think you know beyond this this holds that there is a certain amount of caution that we sing in the Russian Media that they know the Trump is unpredictable and does not have the same kind of consistency when it comes to his policies as previous US presidents do so they are weary that things could well change depending on how events develop as ever thank you very much indeed for your help.

The film broadcast on BBC 2/2 weeks ago.

It's narrator is a teenage boy whose father is a Hamas official but that fact only emerged after the programme broadcast within days the BBC had pulled the documentary from iPlayer then on Thursday last week The Corporation put out a statement in that statement the BBC of knowledge serious floors and said it had no plans to the program again in its current form or return it to iPlayer it also said ask the production company about potential connections the boy may have had with Hamas mpcz since they have acknowledged that they knew that the boys father was a deputy agriculture minister in the Hamas government they also acknowledge.

They said that they never told the BBC this fact well the BBC all this update said it was commissioning independent investigation also at this point in having given a single interview about the film or the Fallout from the film and many questions remained then.

Week on Tuesday BBC chat send me a shot and the BBC director-general Tim Davie both appeared before MPs here is some of what the chair said we're looking very precisely on this particular phone and the decisions were taken at what point do it taken and when and how the process of compliance to play some whether people they don't follow the compliance rules to the letter.

That's the BBC chair than here is the director-general Tim Davie talking about which questions were asked a head of broadcast in my view if you were asked a number of times.

And that question was not answered and from our side.

We have fantastic keys by the way and I certainly think under the pressure thereunder you know you got understand the situation the level of curiosity.

You ask is ready more.

I know that is basics and at the end of the day as editor-in-chief.

I have to be secured not only editorial weather films at the making of film that point quickly I lost trust in that film emphasise the issue of whether sufficient curiosity was shown we also heard of the BBC's commitment to transparency though by this point over 2 weeks after the program has been broadcast.

It's still having agreed to be interviewed about the documentary and the Fallout from it by journalist well this morning the chair of the culture media and sport committee this committee that they were talking to is Caroline Dinenage and she gave Radio 4 Today programme her reaction to what she heard from them.

What struck me most is the number of things that we don't know the this is a story that's been well.

Covered over the last couple of weeks, but there seem to be so many unanswered questions we had gained new information from that BBC statement last week and from the director-general and the chair speaking on Tuesday but questions still remain a key is what exactly was the BBC told in advance about the boy and his family links to Hamas the BBC said it ask the production company and number of times before broadcast potential links to the group prescribed a terrorist by the UK the US and other countries, but what specifically did they tell them it is surely inconceivable that the BBC put out a program having all the compliance processes with question still outstanding about who the boy was another question who inside the BBC signed off the programme The director-general said it's

The kind of program the BBC should be making to hear the voices of girls with children is really important, but it was never ever going to be straightforward to who was involved how senior and Katie as well as those questions there are two more questions that specifically relate to the teenage boy who narrates the film.

Yes, I mean we know that the production company withhold paid limited some to the boys family in animation fee in normal times, but MPs indeed the culture secretary have sought assurances that that money didn't Hamas and Tim Davie said yesterday that the production company had told the BBC I haven't but the BBC is investigating but I don't also do think there are wider questions around duty of care to this 14 hour 14-year old boy but the other children as well, but his face for the last however long is the face of the story is on the front of every story that's reported about it.

He is.

14-year old boy living in a conflict zone and the BBC darts and we all have duty of care issues to him.

I would say well next we wait to see the BBC's report on this we also know off the media regulator is also monitoring the situation and it's worth saying we also heard from the production company Heuer films at the Independent company that made the documentary and they say they cooperating with the BBC to help understand where mistakes have been made, but they pointed out you know that this remains an important story to tell and they say that they're contributors.

Who was they put it have no say in the war should have their voices heard was Lisa Nandy issued a written statement to the house of commons.

She said the BBC has provided me with further information on their approach to enhance compliance procedures, but I have not yet received the full range of insurances.

I need I have requested further details and assurances and expect to be provided these by the BBC leadership urgently well we.

The BBC to take part today we also asked why no one from the BBC has been made available for interview since the broadcast of the documentary no one was available to join us, but while we been on here BBC is notified us of its response to the secretary of state written statement to the house of commons and this from the BBC read we take these issues incredibly seriously which is why we've commissioned Peter Johnston to lead a fact-finding review that work has commenced its vital that this work moves quickly, but it must also be thorough and get to the answers the we are seeking I don't think it's going to be the last time about that story but we are now going to turn to our regular weekly profile that because we've been doing it every week profiling some of the Tech Bros currently shaping power in the United States haven't talked about the Washington Post diarrhoea.

It feels like a good week to take a closer look at its owner Amazon founder Jeff bezos when it comes to the lives of ordinary consumers potentially the most influential.

Of them all you may even be listening to us on one of his devices will Greg Williams deputy global editorial director at wired and he is here to help us out.

Hi Greg good afternoon.

I want to get to know a bit more about Jeff positive if you had to sum up his outlook in three were hurts.

What was it by think you only use a hyphen his customer-focused.

Why do I feel like it and I think really what is he quite extraordinary if you think about the big pile of tech companies that really are shaping the world around us so you think about the way that say Google has really changed the way that we think about information the way that Facebook has really changed the way we we communicate Microsoft has changed the way that we work Amazon completely change the way that we buy and sell things and it's been incredibly fast I'm awesome.

Is that the three other businesses that are named are all software companies so it's very easy to scale software right.

It is very low incremental costs when you use scale that kind of business he start in the world which is really something these.

Are you no good to have been transported all over the world you can order something today in the UK and it will be transferred from China and you'll have it in 24-48 hours.

He expectations in what that means is that everyone in retail now is judged by the standards of Amazon but I do want to talk more about Amazon but but just in terms of his formative influences had a hedge fund what what floated his boat back then well, I think drawing up.

He was interested in science fiction where he did the high school he talked about to the flight this excitement.

He had about people human beings leaving Earth and going into space and colonising other planets sounds familiar with other.

When did electrical engineering and computer science he really need to be taken William Shatner into space with are not quite sure of it kind of worked out the way you really intended because I think that I'm slightly traumatised by the I'd just like nothing existing beyond earth, but you know he's he came from finance and he saw the opportunity of the internet.

He went out raise the capital it was not easy about those very early sort of meetings where you was trying to read seed round asking me to later to invest $50,000 told them that is highly likely they would lose their money, but it's up to you because we have got a clip of him talking exactly my point about why he decided to set up Amazon and 19944 came across the fact that were bussage was growing at 2300.

Year never seen or heard of anything the crew that fast an idea of building an online bookstore with millions of titles exist in the physical world was very exciting.

I was working at a friend's of firm in York City and had a brilliant boss.

How much admired I went to my boss and told him I was going to start a company selling books on the internet.

It took me on a long walk Central Park listen.

Carefully to me and finally said that sounds like a really good idea, but it would be an even better idea for someone who didn't already have a good job.

He didn't take a note of that advice and the rest is history.

Just help us understand the degree to which Amazon once it was becoming very successful disrupted the Publishing and entertainment show I mean if you just look at the way that Amazon to dominate something like the eBook industry.

It really still is although it had ups and downs when it first released the Kindle I think one of the fastest.

Ever sold it still has a real sort of like massive impact on the publishing industry by that I don't remember the numbers exactly but it's still the dominant way the people purchase books.

I think in terms of the entertainment industry more more more generally what's interesting is the the growth of the Amazon Prime video the entertainment streaming services that is a is the doesn't arrive.

It's not stand alone revenue stream in the sense.

That is part of a broader content and membership ecosystem.

That really is encouraging people to have like to to get these Prime subscription in order to Amazon widely and apart from trying to grow his business to be a successful as it can be in as many different areas as it can be is there an ideological spinning is there an ambition beyond commercial success.

I think he is really driven to make Amazon this leading company still talk to this day about the fact that you want.

To survive him he wanted this business to be a formidable business.

That is like a multi generation business, so yeah, hehe I think he really is driven by the idea of building something that is the lights customers and really you know is is the leading business in its field and if we talked about his Media influencer outside of Amazon shopping.

What's your understanding of why he bought the Washington Post people like to have influence in the world and you know how to do it myself.

I mean you know he bought it in 2012 years ago wasn't it? And what's interesting to me? Is it hasn't really you look at a lot of the other pastors like in your plight of Wall Street Journal a really innovated exactly that period and I've not really seen at the Washington Post although it.

Had he has a very good and fun tiktok account but I think that he really sees it as a way.

Initially certain if you read Marty Baron the former editor-in-chief with the Washington Post if you listen to his retelling of the story he did it is a good steward.

You know do make sure that there was an independent media and that was what we were talking earlier for many years and we are all asking why he thinks he's changed his approach recently.

What do you think is behind is changing approaches a proprietor at the Washington Post I think it's purely pragmatic.

I don't think those necessarily has anyone has any conflicts imagine there probably sort of fairy libertarian.

You know sort of like probably stuff like fairest of Progressive intensive social views and slightly more conservative when it comes to his economic view, but I think really this is about seeing a transactional government coming to place in the United States administration.

Clearly is you know operate on one level which is what can you do for us and if you do some?

Will do something for you.

I think there's Aussies is an opportunity on order to prevent sort of some of the bad things that could happen to him.

He still is company is still under investigation by the SECC Lee judges rule that will probably have to go to court or basal skin to settle out of court.

So I think this is just you know a very wealthy individual at trying to sort of make his way in the world of trump great.

Thank you very much and that's great Williams deputy global editorial director at wide now.

This is very exciting we are going to speak to a winner from Sunday night Molly O'Brien is the director of the only girl in the orchestra it won the Oscar for best short documentary and Molly is liver the same New York body congratulations.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for joining us being such a special week and this film for people who haven't seen it and I strongly recommend those of you haven't that you do is all about your mother your aunt or in O'brien.

She was the first woman to.

Full-time with the New York Philharmonic Orchestra here's a clip from the film double bases are different my pets you want to talk about but she does talk about it.

You persuade her to to make the film and will ask you about that in a minute, but I must start with just how is the last few days been so it's it's been a dream and stuff floating.

I'm still floating.

I'd love to stay up in the clouds for as long as possible and that come come down for a while.

It's so difficult as you have been talking about for the past hour and the media attention that comes with this I assume starts to some degree the moment.

Animation yes, yes, I'm so the only girl in the orchestra is on Netflix and they have incredible Awards team and PR and marketing team and Netflix that really are treated us very well and sort of we all felt like being wrapped in Farmers Arms is it does it almost become a job in itself? Yes, yes, it is a full-time job for a for a brief amount of time remember.

This is a documentary short so I'm not on the 6th month circuit that the feature films are on.

It's more that it's like a six-week in your and it's really since the short listing in the nomination so like December till march.

It's so it is a 6-week sprint and then of course you arrive in Los Angeles from the moment you arrive and you also thinking in the media as well as of course what your outfits going to be and where your seat is going to be in the Auditorium and all the other practicalities.

In Los Angeles about 9 Days Before the Academy Awards and every night that week there is an event of some kind of a nominees dinner which was thrilling at the Academy Museum there in film honour event honouring all the female nominees and 65 women that were nominated for an Academy Award which was quite extraordinary only 23 categories are giving awards and etc.

Etc.

It sounds like a lot and then you win my goodness what a moment when you walk off stage shot you giving you a speech what happens then in terms of the media.

Do they want to speak to you from the second you step off and how quickly to get to get the Vanity Fair party and everyone to go together.

I when you when you first walk up the stage they squirt you and they make sure that you're not going to fall over because it is quite a head experience.

a bit dizzy and there's there's a wonderful thing that the Academy as a thank you can because of course we were cut off and we're unable to finish or thank you for orchestra playing the music that was able to look straight to the camera and and thank everybody that we didn't have a chance to thank then they squirt you to another press room where there were reported from all over the world does in the Roman remotely you can ask you questions including the BBC who were there to see a covering and absolutely devastating selection and meet the entire team and raise a glass to glass of champagne on most every one of the stops to it's quite lovely and did you get a lot of media coverage cos obviously the

Concentrates on the big winners that should have best actors and best films and all of that in terms of you and your win.

Have you been appeared in the media a lot of the dog NYC in the New York Times cover that which was extraordinary and I actually think the fat in your times do the Q&A and her profile on Warren the star of the only girl the orchestra that I think that is what possibly lead to the sale to Netflix in independent filmmakers need a special shorts in a which command the same and I must you ask you in the minute.

So we have left about your arms or O'Brien and and and just tell us about her what she made of you making this film well as you can tell when you wash the film.

She was a reluctant protagonist your journalist you I'm sure you'll be with me that sometimes the best protagonist of subjective of a story is a reluctant one if your if your.

After someone who will let you know agrees immediately and just want to be on camera often not getting an authentic human being and the camera attention, so what she was very reluctant at first she's also very pleased because I think I kept my promise to her and the way that I got her to agree with the film.

Is it promised her that I would elevate the double bass elevator music and data is a teacher as much as anything else and I did that and you know she's getting 112 of emails and exaggerating from all over the world from ex students and from fans and I think this is now it's no longer this underdog of the orchestra.

It's it's it's it's it's the Foundation of the orchestra.

She describes in the film.

Did you speak to her after you want from the the bar venue which was very noisy and we sort of screamed.

I love you at each other and congratulate.

I've had to say I'm going to have dinner with her next week.

Will you be taking your trophy or Oscar with you? Just to show her.

Yes, I'll be taking a car and where you going to keep it as long as we're going to keep your trophy well.

I'm having an argument with my family would actually was the best part of being at the awards was having them there with me.

They were on the mantle in the living room as a centerpiece.

I kind of wanna on the bookshop in the bedroom that will continue the only girl in the orchestra is directed by Molly O'Brien who we've just been speaking to you.

So one of your watch it on Netflix thank you Marley thank you very much indeed.

Molly's our last guest on today's edition of the media shown as ever you can listen back on BBC sounds but from both of us, bye bye bye.