Read this: White House press access, Kursk documentary, Jeff Bezos's new rules for the Washington Post

I'm radio for the more you listen the more you see after all of that we're talking about your advice listened on Radio 4 on BBC sounds music Radio podcasts, this is the media show from BBC Radio 4 this week will hear from an Oscar winner on what it's like to be in the middle of the Sunday night Media frenzy in La will bring you up-to-date on what the BBC has and hasn't said about it's the documentary.

There is a story that is not yet run its course, we'll look at new rules for opinion pieces at the Washington Post set by Jeff bezos and speaking of the Amazon boss will be the focus.

Latest profile of a major Tech leader a new documentary about the sinking of Russia's kursk submarine and 2000s shoes about Media Freedom in Russia then and now he joined by the director of that film we going to start though in the US on Tuesday evening Donald Trump gave a major speech to Congress outlining what he says he's achieved and what he plans to do and as ever these moments post questions for the media about how to cover the events and Mr trump not least because in his speech is the president rutini says things that aren't true aren't available evidence or a misleading.

It's a course not a new challenge though the media had years to consider how best to report when President Trump is giving a speech sorted.

They do mixed media editor of semaphore underlay to say you're here to unpack this for us.

You were watching.

How did the different networks cover it do they broadcast the in full did they get fat checked?

Ring after it.

Just laid out for us.

Please Trump's address in for has is as normal and of course it was also available to be streamed on your Times website and streamed on YouTube broadcast by the various media companies that some different networks BBC fact Chequer after several minutes after trump speech near times was also updating on a live blog and of course some of them or right meaning that works like fox and other side run with the pack check on it didn't see it.

Thank you very much indeed stay with this because we can discuss a number of different stories relating to the US media and Donald Trump and let's look at two specific case studies about how the white house is interacting with.

The media is responding to the White House first of all let's look at an announcement from last week by the White House that it plans to determine which news outlets have access to the president taking control for the White House Correspondents Association after more than a century so the White House will the term in which outlets participate in what's called the pool that covers presidential events and shares with other media outlets must be Jim Daniels a journalist of let's go and the president of the White House Correspondents association and Eugene thank you very much for being with us.

Just first of all explain flawlessness how the pool system works with the we operation of organising the polls in and who is around him at all times and there's always a good girl is called the press pool cover every president smooth a video.

Colleagues for not up to the American people so if the president goes to Paris still with him the president go tomorrow.

I'll go there with you.

Just have the right house.

There's a pool way.

I'm from the White House says there is a problem, but they can go to to cover that so that's happened been going on for nearly a century and the White House Correspondents Association has organised the rotated every day and this is not the first white house that has one to take their over there always talk about this internally but they will hasn't even with trampoline park in the first time was that the people that are doing the covering should co-ordinate that in that the people who are being covered in that has been something that's gone on for years and and the end they decided to change that actually means I'm in the process of covering the president of making sure people get unvarnished access in 1.4 the American people information well.

What does it mean does it mean that?

Trump and his colleagues can choose precisely which journalists are within this ball means that the president is on the team who's doing operating and organising this will take whether they want to put them in that you know they are in some of the constituency groups that will be there going to be using the list in the groups that we have they are so have expanded to include other people who are pulling and who are sending that information out in the unilaterally in association have always said to write houses were all about a game of addition and subtraction right so of presidents in their team want to bring people in that's fine.

It's when you start cutting fake flower and more Portlaoise yourself with her becomes an issue, but the pool can only be so big presumably for practical reasons and wouldn't the Principal

The fact that the media is diversified in a whole range of ways in the last 1020 years and so it's appropriate to the nature of the pool adapt accordingly.

We have we used to have a magazine Seaton that no longer exists we serve something that was called the new media see but now everybody is doing new meteorite.

Everyone's doing podcast and never want to do in organizations from the left and the right into our organisation in a part of the rotation of our hosts and that's been going on for that the White House Correspondents Association has been keeping out every single news organisation has come up in this new that's not the truth that I work right now is a new organisation compared to the 100 + years of the White House Correspondents association and we have been an active member of the poor for a very long time so you're saying the pool is adapting but this.

Vision by the White House on the police alongside other decisions relating to mediate access to the White House into the president we know there's been an issue for the white house over the associated press one of the world's biggest news agencies over the naming of the Gulf of America is Donald Trump has renamed the Gulf of Mexico with some other people call it.

How do you feel when the White House forgets individual news organisations such as the AP as a group of journalists operating in the White House really have feelings about it in there an active litigation over this the White House in the associated Press I don't want to get it out of that people.

I would imagine that you and your colleagues do have feelings that the white house is taking a quite different approach to media which is covering Mr Trump's activities.

What would the White House in more importantly represent the needs of our members in so what I would say is that you know we provide statements the second that the associated Press and started being blocked from different events.

I'm in what we said then if that no white house no government officials should be telling news organizations, but they can and can't say that is has been true for since the very beginning of America right that the Freedom of the press that person now to make their own editorial decisions in more importantly.

They shouldn't be blocked because of those editorial decisions.

Thank you very much indeed for joining us Eugene is with politico.

He's also the president of the White House Correspondents Association or let's now look as case study if you like in terms of how the media is interacting in this new world.

I'm going to look at one of the best-known news organisations the Washington Post because just before the election last year it decided not to endorse a candidate a decision that cause flooring.

Remember that it's been expected to endorse Kamala Harris it didn't and now it's owner Jeff bezos has changed.

It's policy on opinion articles to in an email to staff he said you're going to be writing every day and support and defence of two Pillars personal liberties and free-market will cover other topics to of course but viewpoints opposing those Pillars we left to be published by others went on there was a time when I newspaper especially one that was a local Monopoly might have seen it as a service to bring to the readers doorstep every morning a broad-based opinion section assault to cover all views today the internet does that job and then he made one more point he said I also believe these viewpoints are underserved in the current market of ideas and news opinion and excited for us together to fill that void well.

It's reasonable to say not everyone shared Mr businesses excitement, let's the Washington Post opinion editor resigns.

Cameron bar, Washington Post managing editor from 2015 to 2023 and also someone who remain as an associate and senior associate editor since then also chase and his work with the postman Cameron bars with us on the media show now, thank you very much for your time.

Why did you take this decision from there was a kind of the last straw you mentioned the king of the endorsement letter also some things that Jeff has done publicly that I was uncomfortable with one was says if you save tweet of congratulations to the re elected Donald Trump and other was a parent so probably at the inauguration and those action struck me as as demonstrating a lack of independence from power lack of restraint.

I think is in the today for an owner of an institution like the Washington Post which is set up to hold power to account to hold the president to account so I decided that was enough for me was a very person.

Is a difficult decision but it was it was time for me to say I no longer wish to be associated with the post even in the in the role of a senior associate at her which is as you know that as part-time arrangement of followed my my career there.

Would you go as far as Marty band form editor of the Washington Post man? I'm sure you know very well Marty Baron said don't think the best Us Wants an editorial page.

That's regularly going after Donald Trump do you think that's true? I want to give you a of some credit in my years of the Post he was arguing exemplary owner he gave The Newsroom the distance and needed to do its job and he stood up too many attacks from the president that I think were triggered by the post ham and so I think it's reasonable to assume that the Jeff bezos has decided.

He's had enough of all that he doesn't need to a bear the Brunt of the kind of pressure and attack.

That were forced upon him in the earlier trump presidency is Katie razzall here sitting aside was Atkins in the media studio here in London I just hold on we're going to be talking about you more later and tell his backstory is one of the profiles that we do every week, but you said that he didn't it wasn't like this before you work with him for years as managing director.

Just tell us how involved he was in The Newsroom through that period for example not very that part of the point is that you know I think you should admirable restraint and distance in those years he supported the post.

He made Investments he hated us greatly in our capacity to keep her body up to date and to serve our readers appropriately technologically but he let it was then the editor he let Morty run the newsroom in the way that Maltese off it.

That was to his credit, so I think I am I was told there was a Row 3 knows just explain about was my encapsulation of a way of describing just independent so he had never been shown a story before publication.

He never criticise the story after publication and he never told us to do a story about anything so I was a candy to succeed Maria interview does Jeff bezos for that raw.

I asked him to recommit to the three nose and he did and that gratifying to me, but I see names current actions and especially with regard to his treated the opinion section of the post the editorial page.

I see a lack of any kind of interference that frankly he promised as he would never engage in when he bought the the place from the Graham family in 2013 and you were saying just a little bit early.

Systematic change at giving us some insight as to why but could you lose the date on that at all? Why do you think now? He's changed his position a brilliant question I wish I could answer it.

I can't be inside his head.

I can only inferred that looking at the first trump administration looking at this one that wants to conduct himself differently he may be interested in safeguarding the interests of Amazon he may be interested in safeguarding the interest for further into the intracellular space company blue origin.

It's really hard to say hasn't said my she hasn't answered that question publicly, so I don't know the answer to your question.

I do know there's been a shift in his conduct and clearly for you.

This isn't working you've written about the time is coming to sell the Washington Post to someone who will allow its Missionaries to do their jobs.

Is that your definitive position then someone is work very closely with him for a number of

Very quickly moving to you should sell up.

I would just cut out.

I wouldn't say work very closely just kept his distance from The Newsroom and so that didn't give up a great amount of contact with him.

Just speak Sandra play about the importance of mission in organizations.

Especially true in journalism.

This is why journalism do the work is because believe in it and you have to control to limit to curtail to abridge the advert say of the editorial page dampens mission and kind of car is the spirit of the place and I do want to say that the spirit of the place is alive and well the news report is fantastic.

Some of the most rigorous reporting on the beginning of this trump administration has come from The Newsroom and its editorial opinion writers or hard at it, so I want to express my admiration for my phone work colleagues.

I also wanted to draw line for myself beyond which I did not feel comfortable go.

Cameron former managing editor of the Washington Post please stay with us, but I'd like to bring my money from semaphore back in Max we were talking now with Cameron about this shift in terms of how opinion will pivot in the Washington Post UK audiences that can you explain to ask the way us newspapers do approach the positioning of opinion because it's very different from what we do here in the UK of course you know in the US traditionally newspapers news organisation tell a very clear several sets of very clear lines, won between editorial business size of companies in Kent within editorial those between The Newsroom and your opinion writers so folks such as myself.

I'm in I'm in Edinburgh open The Newsroom III it's it's expected that even if I have my own personal use about something that it's I'm not I'm not I'm going to leave those aside from the actual coverage and leave you now.

Boxing Union section which obviously is the different in the UK in which some of those the ideologies political ideologies or baked Into The Newsroom said that the lines are less clear a part of the reason obviously we're looking at this now.

Wouldn't says only us on the media show who are interested is this sense that this what's happening is part of a broader trend of new organizations who are adjusting to a new president and a new world.

Can you just brought it out for us and tell us more about that.

Yeah absolutely to most notable examples of course the post in which she is very probably tried to the opinion section you're not it's not quite clear.

What exactly these new guardrails our dinner and then of course the other times on on the west coast.

Where are the papers owner Patrick soon-shiong has been kind of doing a very interesting having doing.

what's going on and you know has attempted to balance the editorial side is introduced on this thing called voices essentially in which he's tried to bring in different flavours of commentators and interestingly included in a a summary presenting the opposite view of what's going on in the news that it was just rolled out week, but crucially Patrick Stewart on also first decided not to not to endorse of course the paper had endorsed democratic presidents going back several decades and you decided last minute before actually just announced in the post that it wasn't I decided not to have endorsement of of Harris

Had decided to rain in his editorial board members of the editorial board.

He's definitely making changes to to the editorial board trying to bring on the voices on so in some ways.

Yes, it's for the course but having a I respond in the actual article to the to the writer itself.

That's that is a new innovation is bringing camera bar on that idea.

What do you think camera of the idea of AI being used to either summarise a counter argument with an opinion ask even in some way grade the type of political slant an opinion article might have to give a good idea.

There's been lots of fun really cool of what's been happening at the la times and it's too and predictable.

It's not responsible it doesn't I don't think it addresses the the point that Patrick soon-shiong another think it address is I didn't want it back up.

We bet and say it does make sense in the United States for some big news organisations to try to produce a nonpartisan a fact-based report every day when there is a difference between the US in the Britain and Britain and that's cool, but frankly one of the reasons is you yourselves write the BBC offers that kind function net worth of baseline reporting and has huge resources with which to do that and that provides a bed of facts that can help the society function Americans don't have that the nearest equivalent NPR doesn't even come close in that's why it's important for big organisations like the New York Times like the Washington Post likes on others to try them produce a non ideological account every day of what's going on in to do the importantly to do the investigation and the accountable.

Power that matters and they can help voters to understand, what is happening in their Society and with her government well.

Thank you very much on that note camera and our former senior editor of the Washington Post and Max tiny from 74.

Thank you very much for coming on the media show this year marks the 25th anniversary of the kursk submarine disaster in Russia in 2000 the nuclear submarine sank in the barents sea after a torpedo onboard exploded all 118 men on board would die Russia's leader then as now was a Putin and the world waiting to see if the crew could be saved he delayed a rescue mission and initially declined foreign assistance and Katie actually cover this the time.

Yes, I did I was working with an amazing Channel 4 News foreign correspondent Gaby Rado who sadly at later died and I was born producer and we spent a week perhaps even more first-in-man scan then in Moscow as it unfolding watching.

Is dramatic scenes and really awfully tragic scenes and seeing the families and the trauma that they went through and it became an enormous global Media story at the time which flour gluten and everyone else involved in trying to reach that submarine would have been well aware of absolutely in this was being reported around the globe.

Obviously not just on Channel 4 News but the cross across the world.

He was a very significant story at a time where but yes it will talk about it, but there was a lot more access to Russia and coverage of Russia perhaps.

There is now well the reason we're talking about this is a new Tupac documentary the impact of this disaster.

It's called kursk 10 days that shaped Putin and it raises important questions about Putin's approach to the media and many other issues to is a clip from a Bill Clinton who was US President at the time but it was a mistake from the Prague

People manifesta Prague in different ways maybe a psychological maybe it's cold so maybe it's both I don't think it makes you weaker you accept up from people well.

Becky Reid is director of cursed 10 days that shaped Putin it's produced by hiddenlight the production company founded by Hillary Clinton and Chelsea Clinton nursery heard Bill Clinton is featured.

That's the first time you've spoken about this and Becky we welcome to the media show because of the involvement of the Clintons both behind the production company and Wilkinson's decision to take part should we on some level see this as a political piece of work out set the founders of the production company headlight didn't have any control of their project remember sky and Hersey commissioned it didn't see the film.

King and spinach and delivered and made up of independent filmmakers drawn to you know all different types of stories for different reasons and for me I guess you know it was really that this was a kind of Incredible political thriller a human story that speaks so much about where we are today.

So you know I think the main concerns remain impartial and make sure that from the outset we could tell a Russian story without it feeling too western-centric.

So you know that was the maze of things that was the beginning of the film to make sure that we can include a breadth of contributors from every nation involved in the end of the film.

I think we have 6 Americans 5 Russians and you know I really kind of Representatives of their personal stories all the people in the film actually.

Argue, doesn't it that this disaster shaped to some degree Putin's view of the media in the documentaries we see the extraordinary press conference where Mothers of people trapped on the marina shouting at him.

What was your thesis in terms of the impact the whole experience had on him and how he approached the media in Russia this is the films are involved with this Story 2 examined through the lens of this disaster and happy to manage this disaster.

What can we learn about the leader he was going to be and I think what actions at different moments in anime that this was something that you know that Shakespeare man goes on to shake the next 50-years with independent Media you know really was a form of events.

I think his first few months of power.

It was the Monday is the

Asian Capital on Saturday and the Monday after that 100 days in Powys you know really early in a new President presidency and I think there's a film shows in episode 2 we play out exactly how to react to What you learnt how he turns around this event come and very negative instead of starch for him and go back onto reshaping independent press that as you mentioned was pretty vibrant at the time in Russia Becky do just stay with us, but I want to bring in the scar his Russian Media expert with BBC monitoring Frances welcome again.

We was delighted to have you on the media show just talking about how the immediate at the beginning of Putin's presidency independent independent were they let out for us welcome in Russian today.

They were independent.

They were however not independent in the way that you might imagine to be.

Western country they were very powerful private business interests lollipops that we controlling the main TV channels and I think Putin one of the reasons why he clampdown on the channels after was that he saw the TV channels as vehicles for the interests of these oligarchies powerful men and he decided that if his TV channels were going to be criticising him.

They would be a benefit in the interest of businessman, who wanted to see his eventual downfall and so of course there was a pluralism which we don't see in Russia at all today.

Where are all of the main inside the country are controlled by the state and a line with the kremlin's do on the world but at the same time there was there was a number of years which nowadays he wouldn't hear remember one of many people might remember the very famous footage across the world as we're saying about it one of them others being in a needle coming out and having injector that she has she's complaining.

Press conference and then she should have taken out of the room and the fainted eventually also Comatose that kind of image did go everywhere.

Did you see the Becky's films thesis that the caf was a Turning Point do you agree with that thesis? Was it about the fact that these images went well done the DPF damaging I think so, I mean even if you look at the the rescue operation to find the same as not all of them died in the initial explosion around I think 23 of them later.

The founder die of suffocation after making it to a specific compartment on the submarine Putin didn't want the UK and the Norwegian rescue efforts to be accepted because he's afraid that they would find out about what the the nature of the the the military exercise that was going on and so at the same time.

He didn't want the media to be uncovering things and to be criticising him and to be home.

Him and military leadership to account and it wasn't just you know there were two major Russian TV channels which were hamstrung effectively in 2001 of them where an anchor came out with the scathing criticism of Putin saying that the the main conclusion to be drawn from the whole incident is that the government is lying to us and doesn't respect us and another channel which had a satirical puppet show where Putin was portrayed in various guises unflattering Lee and the TV channel was told effectively to remove boot in as one of the characters and when they refused their the channel was taken away from the ownership of one of these oligarchs and brought under Kremlin control.

Thank you for the moment Becky Reid director of this new Tupac documentary on the the cursed disaster, let's bring you back in you've already told us that you spoke to many families in Russia who were affected by there's how did you approach that give?

Current Media environment which people are living within in Russia people decision to include relatives and Leicester is very seriously wanted to hear the stories.

I will say that many people have left Russia and all the all over the world so my two fabulous producers are able to track down this from all over the place and we managed this conversation bro.

Carefully everyone we spoke to his really was informed by clearly early on about the production company being at Weston you know Western production company founded where we didn't ask political questions about the situation today.

We start break clearly to personal memories and opinions of those people have written about this publicly already and I think you know Sophie will the next week which are well known and you know very well at the time.

This year of both Putin's first inauguration itself, so it felt like a tiny moment you know to remember this Mariners I think really was the driving Force the people taking part at the top of this Becky it's the first time that Bill Clinton has spoken about this and it's in your documentary.

He says the Buddha Meran Italy rejected help because he exposed Russian national Security secrets.

Did you ask Bill Clinton or any other contributors about whether the US would have accepted help given.

You know for positions have been reversed.

We did ask.

We did ask that question and I think you know the response that you hope to give in the moment during interview.

We would you know you want to try and save any lives is the one that you'd hopefully I think it was on the other foot today.

They would you know I hope you don't have to have a test that I genuinely don't know whether.

Let's Russian military down, but I don't know really have that would pay out today and I'm just one question.

I know you were saying earlier about hiddenlight and how the film company wasn't involved editorially they helped you get Bill Clinton to do an interview his first interview on it.

Didn't say before I got involved so I never been having conversations for you.

I'm around the time of commission.

I think it's certainly helps having some of the access when we're approaching some other people who work on it behind the scenes.

You know they want to know but they are going to be speaking with you.

No other people from there from that time so I think you know certainly it's useful to have some really solid.

Documentary and those conversations were crucial for me and understanding what happened that weekend we knew that the classical exploded on the Saturday and nothing is released the present on Monday so you know day and a half more than that of time were the Russians me, what happened and I wanted to find storyteller secret tell us what was going on on those two days and the Americans new because this Subaru engine question to me that we try to answer it.

What do you do with the information? You know I certainly we can say that the Americans need to send it.

What do you do about that becomes interesting diplomatic not wanting to blindside a new President embarrassing with this news not unintelligent so that for me was a really interesting and important part of the story to tell my memory of arriving was very much in the early very early stages definitely going to get

Get any information about about what has happened out of the Russians Becky read you have created a very compelling and Powerful documentary.

Thank you very much for coming on and talk about it is Tupac documentary able to watch on all sky history on Sky History Channel catch-up services and Francis Just while you're here.

Just quickly I've got everyone listening will have seen the set to between Donna JD Vance and Rodney is Alexi last Friday how is the Russian Media presenter Mr sanddancer get after that well as you can imagine the absolutely laptop for quite some presented in a very very derogatory negative lights 11th presenter on on Russian TV said that she has turned up looking like a removal and they had been thrown out by the scruff of the neck out of the white house and then now portraying trump as a kind of positive actor in this whole story Jubilee School Story Who

Can do business we seeing the Russian foreign minister referring to the Americans as partners for the first time in quite a while while at the same time the Russian Media is saying that the ukrainians are no longer partners to the Americans that said I think you know beyond this this whole spat there is a certain amount of caution that was singing the Russian Media that they know that Trump is a ball and does not have the same kind of consistency when it comes to his policies as previous US presidents do so they are weary that things could well change depending on events develop as ever.

Thank you very much indeed for your help me about Gaza you want to see this is a film broadcast on BBC 2/2 weeks ago.

It's narrator is a teenage boy whose father is a Hamas official but that fact only and

After the programme broadcast within days the BBC had pulled the documentary from iPlayer then on Thursday last week The Corporation put out of statement in the moment the knowledge base floors and said it had no plans to broadcast the program again in its current form or return it to iPlayer it also said it would ask the production company about potential connections the boy may have had with the BBC said since transmission they have acknowledged that they knew that the boys father was the deputy agriculture minister in the Hamas government they also acknowledge.

They said that they never told the BBC this fact.

What are the BBC also in this update said it was commissioning independent investigation also at this point in having given a single interview about the film or the Fallout from the film and questions remained Ben this week on Tuesday BBC chat send me a shark and the BBC director-general Tim Davie both appeared before MPs here is some of what the chair said.

We're looking very precisely on this particular phone and the decisions were taken at what point they were taken and when and how the process of compliance to place the people did not follow the compliance rules to the letter.

That's the BBC chair than here is the director-general Tim Davie talking about which questions were asked broadcast in my view if you're asked a number of times and that question was not answered and from our side and we have the keys by the way and I said anything under the pressure thereunder you know you got understand all these situations, but the level of curiosity you ask, is there any more I know that is basics and at the end of play as editor-in-chief I have to be secured not only editorial weather films at the making of that film that point quickly I lost trust in that film.

Davey emphasise the issue of whether sufficient curiosity was shown we also had a restatement of the BBC's commitment to transparency though by this point over 2 weeks after the programme had been it still had agreed to be interviewed about the documentary and the Fallout from it by a journalist well this morning the chair of the culture media and sport committee this committee that they were talking to Caroline Dinenage and she gave Radio 4 Today programme her reaction to what she heard from them.

What struck me most is the number of things that we don't know the story that's been well.

Covered over the last couple of weeks, but there seem to be so many unanswered questions we had games new information from that BBC statement last week and from the two general and the chair speaking on Tuesday but questions still remain.

Yes, I mean key is what exactly was the BBC told in advance about the boy and indeed.

Hamas the BBC said it off the production company and number of times before broadcast for any potential links to the group prescribed a terrorist by the UK the US and other countries but what specific they tell them it is surely inconceivable that the BBC put out a program having completed all the compliance processes with question still outstanding about who the boy was another question who inside the BBC signed of the programme The director-general said it's exactly the kind of program the BBC should be making to hear the voices of girls with children is really important, but it was never ever going to be straight-forward to who was involved how senior did it go and kg as well as those questions there are two more questions that specifically relate to the boy who narrates the film.

Yes, I mean we know that the production company withhold paid a limited some to the boys family in animation fee standard in it normal time.

MPs indeed the culture secretary have sought assurances that that money didn't reach Hamas and Tim Davie said yesterday that the production company had told the BBC I haven't but the sea is investigating but I don't also do think there are wider questions around duty of care particularly to this 14 hour 14-year old boy but the other children as well, but his face for the last however long is the face of the story is on the front of every story that's reported about it.

He is a 14-year old boy living in a conflict zone and the BBC does and we all have duty of care to him.

I would say what next we wait to see the BBC's report on this we also know Ofcom the media regulator is also monitoring the situation and it's worth saying we also heard from the production company Heuer films at the Independent company that made the documentary and they say the cooperating fully with the BBC to help understand where mistakes have been made, but they pulled it out.

You know that this remains an

Story to tell and they say that they're contributors who have they put it have no say in the war should have their voices heard Lisa Nandy should have written statement the House of Commons you said the BBC has provided me with further information on their approach to enhance compliance procedures, but I have not yet received the full range of insurances.

I need I have requested further details and assurances and expect to be provided these by the BBC leadership urgently well, we did invite the BBC to take part today.

We also asked why no one from the BBC has been made available for interview the broadcast of the documentary no one was available to join us, but while we been on here the BBC is notified us of its response to the secretary of state written statement to the house of commons and this BBC Radio we take these issues incredibly seriously which is why we've commissioned Peter Johnston to lead a full fact finding review that work has commenced.

It's vital that this work moves quickly, but it must

Thorough and get to the answers the we are seeking I don't think it's going to be the last time we talked about that story but we are now going to turn to our regular weekly profile that because we've been is every week profiling some of the Tech Bros currently shaping power in the United States haven't talked about the Washington Post diarrhoea.

It feels like a good week to take a closer look at its owner Amazon founder basil when it comes to the lives of ordinary consumers potentially the most influential of them all you may even be listening to us on one of his devices will Greg Williams deputy medical director of wired and he is here to help us out.

Hi Greg good afternoon.

We want to get to know a bit more about Jeff positive if you had to sum up his outlook in three words for Opposite by think he's only use a hyphen his customer-focused and I think he's relentless and I think.

Really, what is he quite extraordinary if you think about the big pile of tech companies that really are shaping the world around us so you think about the way that say Google has really changed that we think about information the way that Facebook has really changed the way we we communicate Microsoft has changed the way that we work Amazon has completely changed the way that we buy sell things and incredibly fast.

I'm also interesting is that the three other businesses that are named are all software companies, so it's very easy to scale software.

It is very low incremental cost when you use scale that kind of business he started in the physical world which is really something these.

Are you no good to have been transported all over the world you can order something today in the UK and it will be transferred from China and you'll have it in 24-48 hours.

He's changed our expectations and what that means is that everyone in retail now is judged by the standards of Amazon

But I do want to talk more about Amazon but but just in terms of his formative influences before I had a hedge fund what what floated his boat back then well, I think drawing he was interested in science fiction where he did the switches high school.

He talked about to the flight this excitement.

He had about people that human beings leaving Earth and going into space and colonising other planets sounds familiar with other two Elon but he's a classic soul Princeton did electrical engineering and computer science he really need to be taken William Shatner in space of are not quite sure but it kind of worked out the way you really intended because I think that I'm slightly traumatised by the idea of just like nothing existing beyond earth, but you know he's he came from finance.

He saw the opportunity of the internet he went out raise the capital it was not easy he talks about those very early so of meetings where you was trying to read seed round asking me to later to $50,000 told them that is highly likely.

They would lose their money but interrupt you because we have got a clip of him talking exactly my point about why he decided to set up Amazon and 94 came across the fact that web usage was growing at 2300 per cent per year and never seen or heard of anything the crew that fast an idea of building an online book with names of titles something that exist in the physical world was very exciting to me.

I was working at a French or firm in York City and had a brilliant boss.

How much admired I went to boss told him.

I was going to start a company selling books on the internet.

It took me on a long walk in Central Park listen.

Carefully to me and finally said that sounds like a really good idea.

Even better idea for someone who didn't already have a good job.

I didn't take a note of that advice on the rest is history.

Just help us understand the degree to which Amazon once it was becoming very successful disrupted the Publishing and entertainment Industries sure I mean if you just look at the way that Amazon to dominate something like the eBook in it really still is although you know it's hard on Sunday when it first released the Kindle I think one of the fastest devices ever sold, it still has a real sort of like massive impact on the publishing industry.

I don't remember the numbers exactly but it's still the dominant way the people purchase books.

I think in terms of the entertainment industry more more more generally what's interesting is the degree of the Amazon Prime video the entertainment streaming services that is a business that doesn't mind of it's not stand alone revenue stream in the sense.

That is part of a broader content and membership.

Play system that really is encouraging people to have like to to get these prime subscriptions in order to Amazon widely and apart from trying to grow his big is to be a successful as it can be in as many different areas as it can be is there an ideological underpinnings is there an ambition beyond commercial success look I think he is really driven to make Amazon this leading company still talk to this day about the fact that you want Amazon to survive him.

He wanted this business to be a formidable business.

That is like a multijet business.

So yeah, hehe I think he really is driven by the idea of building something that you know as you was his delights customers and really you know is is the leading business in its field and if we talked about his Media influencer outside of Amazon shopping.

What's your understanding of why he bought the Washington Post

Like to have influence in the world and you know how to do it, but I feel funny that I mean you know he bought it in 2012 years ago wasn't it and what's interesting to me? Is it hasn't really you look at a lot of the other competitors like in the uplighter Wall Street Journal they really innovated exactly that period and I've not really seen that the washing post although it had he has a very good and from tiktok account but I think that he really sees it as a way of you know initially certain if you read the former editor-in-chief with the same post if you listen to his retelling of the story he did it is a come to be a good steward.

You know I did make sure that there was an independent media and that was what we were talking about that.

He was saying he was a very good stewards for many years and we are all asking why he thinks he's changed his approach recently.

What do you think is behind is changing approaches a proprietor?

I think it's purely pragmatic.

I don't think they was necessary has any sort of like entrenched beliefs if he has any kind of political beliefs imagine there probably sort of fairly libertarian.

You know sort of probably stuff like fairest of Progressive intensive social views and slightly more conservative when it comes to his economic views, but I think really this is about seeing a transactional government coming to place in the United States and clearly is operate on one level which is what can you do for us and if you do something for us, then we'll do something for you.

I think there's Aussies is an opportunity in order to prevent sort of some bad things that could happen to him.

He still is company is still under investigation by the SECC Lena Connor judge has ruled that they will probably have to go to court or basal skin to settle out of court.

So this is just you know a very wealthy individual at trying to sort of make his way in the world of trump great.

Thank you very much and that's Greg Williams deputy global editorial director at wired.

Now this is very exciting we are going to speak to a winner from Sunday night or supposed to get Molly O'Brien is the director of the only girl in the orchestra it won the Oscar for best short documentary and liver the same New York mother congratulations.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me not at all.

Thank you for joining as soon as such a special week and this film for people who haven't seen it and I strongly recommend you haven't that you do is all about your mother your aunt or in O'brien.

She was the first woman to play full time with the New York Philharmonic Orchestra here's a clip from the film.

I have Mr on anything except except that my students are right children to me and your double basis bases are different don't like pets.

You've been going to the process of carrying out a new homes, but I'm not well, but she does talk about it you persuade.

The make the film and will ask you about that in a minute, but I must start with just how is the last few days been it's been a dream and stuff loading.

I'm still floating.

I'd love to do in the clouds as long as possible and that come come down for a while.

It's so difficult down here as you have been talking about for the past hour and the media attention that comes with this I assume starts to some degree the moment you get the nomination.

Yes, yes, so the only girl in the orchestra is on Netflix and they have incredible Awards team and PR and marketing team at Netflix that really treated us very well and sort of we all felt like being rock Farmers Arms is it does it almost become a job in itself? Yes, yes, it is it is a full-time job for a for a brief amount of time remember.

This is a documentary short so I'm not on the sea.

Months circuit that the feature films are on it's more that it's like a 6-week in your and you're right.

It's really since the short listing in the nomination so like December to March it's so it next week sprints and then of course you arrive in Los Angeles from the moment you arrive.

Are you also thinking in terms of media as well as of course what your outfits going to be and where your seat is going to be in the Auditorium and all the other yes, there is a series of events.

I landed in Los Angeles about 9 Days Before the Academy Awards and every night that week.

There is some kind of a nominees dinner which was thrilling at the Academy museum.

There's the women in film honour event honouring all the female nominees and 65 women that were nominated for an Academy Award which was quite extraordinary only 23 categories that are giving awards and etc etc.

It sounds like a lot and then you win my goodness what a moment when you walk off stage after you've given your speech what happens then in terms of the media.

Do they want to speak to the second you step off and how quickly do you get to go to the Vanity Fair party? I when you when you first wake up the stage they squirt you and they make sure that you're not going to fall over because it is quite a head experience in your little bit dizzy and there's there's a wonderful thing that the Academy as a thank you can because of course you were cut off and we're unable to finish or thank you for orchestra playing the music over you look strange the camera and and thank everybody that we didn't have a chance to to thank then they ask for you to another pressroom wear.

Somali the world does in the Roman remotely you can ask you questions including my colleagues and BBC who would that be a covering and absolutely that we are able to go out to the bar outside the return as a barn every floor forever for every speeding selection and meet the entire team and raise a glass there's a glass of champagne honest.

It's quite lovely and did you get a lot of media coverage cos obviously the media concentrates on the big winners that should have best actors and best films and all of that but in terms of you and your win.

Have you been ever appeared in the media a lot of the dog and why seeing the New York Times cover that which was extraordinary and I actually think the fat in your profile on Warren the star of the only girl in the orchestra.

Independent filmmakers need a special shorts in a which command the same audience and how much she made of you making this film well as you can tell when you watch watch the film she was a reluctant protagonist your journalist you I'm sure you'll be with me.

That's the best protagonist of subjective of a story is a reluctant one if you're if you're after someone who will let you know agrees immediately and just want to be on camera often not getting an authentic human being and the camera attention, so he was very reluctant at first she's also very pleased because I think I kept my promise to her whether I got her to agree with the film.

Is it promised her that I would elevate the double bass elevate music and talk about her as a teacher as much as anything else and I did that and you know she's getting 100 and

Emails and exaggerating from all over the world from ex students in from fans, and I think people with a double bass is now.

It's no longer this underdog of the orchestra.

It's it's it's it's it's centre of the Foundation of the orchestra is she describes in the film? When did you first speak to her after you want from the the bar at the venue? How much was very noisy and we sort of screamed.

I love you at each other and congratulate next week.

Will you be taking your trophy or Oscar yes? I'll be taking a car going to keep it going to keep your trophy well.

I'm having an argument with my family would actually with the best part of being at the awards was having them there with me.

They want me to keep it on the mantle in the living room and I kind of wanna on the bookshop in the bedroom.

Will continue the only girl in the orchestra is directed by Molly O'Brien who we've just been speaking to you.

So one of you and you can watch it on Netflix thank you Marley thank you very much and Molly's our last guest on today's edition Media show as ever you can listen back on BBC sounds but from both of us, bye bye bye.