Read this: Google's AI Mode vs Fleet Street

It's a new day a blank slate your mind wondered if you think about your future and all its possibilities you want to find out with your potential career could be like so he had to do a t level qualification designed with employers will help you land a job at place at uni a higher technical qualification or higher apprenticeship some go on mate today your day starts with skills see how you can get started search skills for life.

Yeah, Dave right here and soon and I've still got three new highest one born 13 years hundreds of CVs to review but employment contract.

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I want the media club.

I'm your host Matt Deegan in the cup today will Google's AI most destroyed the news media and has YouTube said it on the TV industry writer and telly critics got brains here parent company alphabet still reshaping the media landscape across the world on the programme The World Service needs government fund BBC bosses.

Can they match the scale of China and Russia's operations for the head of Indian gold wallet tells us more fire get to rebrand again with sprinkling some startup.

That's want to come in this club.

Come on in.

I have selected if this is ok.

Everyone always lagna the lesbian and gay newsmedia archive because I am researching a book at the moment and I stumbled across this great place called the Bishopsgate Institute and they have the UK's first and I think only lgbtq plus archive and have literally everything but then they always have like now and what it does that is a set of people who I think back in the 1980s 70s decided to keep clippings of every single time lgbtq plus people were mentioned in the present courses at a time of severe homophobia on a daily basis and they literally have organised it meticulously in these folders that stretch from one side of the room to another so I say to them.

I really want to find out about how the press reacted to EastEnders

Who was the first gay male kiss every single one of the street and he just done by volunteers back then so I think the final point to add none of this stuff exist on the internet really so I think it's really important for a collective history and for a collective is your history even the ugly sides of it.

I will definitely all join group membership and all week this week.

I was going to Jonathan Dimbleby and I'm probably going to say for reasons that your listeners can look up themselves.

It's been actually not been the greatest week when it comes to certain controversy, shall we say and it's going to come to head with a decision that the artist took a couple of weeks ago with shoes frustrated and shall we say and good a lot of people Jonathan Dimbleby being one of them?

You kind of seeing his name to the Chorus of Disapproval about what your teeth of Dalton was quite encouraging because we need more people like that to stand up for the right thing of course you can join so first up this weekend Google what's an AI mode for search in the US and it's already causing issues for news media summarising stories without any click-through data ad revenue attached Scott why they decide to do this.

I mean essentially such because I think the way that we are consuming stuff online has changed mean AI of course has been a hot Topic but it is down to chat box in the way the we interact same question so I think Google which were having still are course and son to search like issues dominant player I think now and realise that they have to do a bit of catch up.

I think just because a lot of people are excited by chat gbt means there are other rivals.

I've got that for them on my phone.

I barely use but of course those chat.

Rely on information scattered across the internet there's been a bit of Two and I'm throwing some threatening of court cases in regards to where the information is sourced from will people have been having have been given a date for the Guardian signed a deal with open AI regards to using their data, but in that raises questions about who profits from that exactly and this is sort of Google essentially now using the information.

They have fun property says but not necessarily give me the providing any money or resources for it because understandably in a long-running battle in regards to money and whether the right people have enough money.

I think it's certainly for the time at least you know creating quite a lot of heat to opt out of Google's AI is to sort of come out of Google search.

Well.

That's brilliant for everybody.

I mean honestly.

I mean I think it's the way that this is always been is that Google makes a bold claim or big plan?

Meteorite Lee has a joint go at it, then there is going to be a bit of chewing and throwing I think for my understand I mean for my sense.

This is just the early stage and this is what Google says that that that don't want to be the news media world rightly so fight back and say absolutely not then they'll be some concessions giving whether that's you know certain amount of money or the continuing think there's always been in w to Google having this sort of information in the first place and then that will continue I just saw sense that just the battle lines of being drawn when it comes to open AI with different Media organise having some sort of different relationship.

It doesn't see the universal now.

They're going to be sort of heading back with these players.

Yeah different titles.

Do you think I've been paid by a variety of New York Times up to them? What they do with afterwards.

It's a good question that because I mean I already thinking in the weight of a night.

I would most places I get I just get a flat fee.

There's never really been some sense of long-term contributions and I think I would be no frustrated if I realised that for example when I went on was to make a film for example and I feel different if I had a book out because that is so cutting the publisher out if that makes sense had already got an opinion on that person a thing is down to the fact that as in speaking on behalf of a lot of people who have been freelancing in a rates have been stable for a very very very long time and it's a lot harder now to get the same amount of work done for the same rate that it's always been and nothing that is the real issue is the lack of availability of work in the first place for subtle for your work that can push the rates up maybe that's a good thing possibly yeah a ice a young people sort of search.

What are the top of Google is that enough of a reason for Google just to sort of roll this out with driven by consumers and large language models is natural language.

I think we're seeing a movie from having to learn how to search Google and more the Google and and all these kind of AI tools of learning how natural language works and processing that to get the information through so kind of things like a normal evolution of how search works and I think that we will see this become the norm I think on at the days where you can have to work out the codes and needs type thing to get certain results and and that hard work will be done by daylight platforms and and and that she's going to be the language that the next generation of online users to use to to navigate the web my concern.

This is what seems to be what people seem to be trying to do is keep people on their page and also you were trapped because that's how it's quite negative, but it's good it's all about the idea of.

People feeling like the traffic is not going to their website even though the information is coming from their website and I think that's that is actually quite dangerous president because obviously Google is a is a at funded model does many people on their platform as possible for as long as possible and if they are going to simply scrape other people's work and put that on their own page and then not send people to those websites which would walk that you then we do have a problem because it just means all eyeballs going to stay within the within Google or Siri whatever it might be similar controversies open it I have started to when you search on a contract CBT it will start putting where the sources are and you can then go and link out to the sources if you want to but the reality is that what to get your answer you kind of done and I think we do need to connoisseur figuring out a planet how we can make sure that the weather is sustainable because the reality is that yes, they're doing it algorithmically and yes, they doing it via using.

But the actual new original work is sitting on this website in Google don't make the original work and open a I make an original work, so if you want to continue seeing the great world of us and the work me and my colleagues to out there.

We need to make sure we can't even encourage people to write the original material and it feels like it may not be doing that the long-term everyone sort of all the big Tesco's super 6s water companies have they give it to either AI products that I was really actually just today at John Gruber who wrote To Love That apple and his blog daring fireball app pineapple intelligent which they sorted pull back of an announcement say all the things we said we're coming and going to come a lot later and he's only quite an apple fanboy, and he should have said there is a lot of April Play-Doh stuff.

There's never really gonna appear to keep delivering I know but I think it comes down to also around not just efexor also just whether it works.

I had a look at my phone that because just

You were talking to go to tell my phone completely off.

So you know is that classic of case of like 3 or 4 years ago.

Everyone was make a big fuss about how home speakers for they're going to be the future of all communication that you'll be able to use and turn your lights on and off and then it just sort of quickly came and went to them onto the next day.

I had a huge role and at times telephone role to play in shaping our creative future but there's also a lot of hype and I think I really wanna about how will it actually change what practical things would it actually influence our lives sister company YouTubers with quietly brilliant streaming based on TV with the introduction of podcast leaving so much longer form content on the new upfront focused on their top creators.

What's the spotter showcase so I mean it essentially is attracting qu.

Bear big creators such as Mr beast of course as done work with Amazon Prime video in the most expensive TV show of all time in my vehicle to arguably one of the worst money doesn't solve all your problems really don't know and it's it's about having a creative match with different programs for maths and ideas because it seems to be particularly with young people Venus massive growth of YouTube which is 20 years old and I've got a piece coming out on Broadcast to feature later on this month and what is remarkable is how YouTube is now the go-to place for young people not just in terms of watching short form content but also long form content and now broadcasters and now starting to put a lot of their shows on the platform.

So if you go onto channel 4 you will now see episodes of Gogglebox and all of the police custody shows ITV now puts on.

Put on Celebrity Big Brother and love Island on there and interestingly they say that does not handle eyes their own streaming services could cause they think that the people who are on that plants compared to their own a fundamentally different audiences, so I think it's this sort of idea particularly that in the US mobile viewing has been replaced by home and viewing I'm in detention because of connection is a lot better and have you as a sticking around for a lot longer but of course that raises a lot of questions for being on the BBC public service broadcasters thinking of the now they rely much more on a third party google, who have an algorithm and also will obviously take a cut for future business and I think it's that kind of ecosystem the exist where in a people will go to their own place people will go to YouTube and third parties but in a day now got another big player in the room in this player happens to a real big influence.

Do you think Netflix and Disney should be worried about them out of YouTube people watching on the TV show that the push to the big screen shall we say for YouTube is the interesting one and I think it does make sense for the business what I'm quite curious about that.

Is is the it's going to work for Aldi and I think one of the reasons why YouTuber doing this is because actually quite a lot blockers on on the big screen on your TV I don't know anybody that TV where is I think actually there's been particularly for younger people is on their ponder browsers and and Google is cracking down on it via their chromium mention and and the Chrome browser and making it harder for outdoor cats be installed, but we have still got a lot of people who do watch YouTube without seeing the hours because I've managed to to use the system where they couldn't get the odds of using them using a plug it.

Would you can't do on TV what I think about that is we've also got.

Is like Netflix and Disney plus and Amazon who are leading more into an at base model and they are kind offering subscription services where it they are subsidised by as and actually think that it is advantageous platforms to move away from being being funded by subscribers has been funded by a revenue because it seems to be more lucrative for the bottom line, what that means I think and if they need looking for optimism in the British market becomes a lot more attractive as a completely ad-free service and I do wonder if you'll start seeing a swing back to iPlayer where people do we get sick of looking up 3 minutes pre rolls and they gave you know what if I don't wanna play on a press play.

I will see my content straight away and we may actually serious wingbacks.

You can and more traditional Media viewing for that very reason because at the moment.

I don't think it's me to experience that is a lot of young people that comes on YouTube but they're not going anywhere near iPlayer and they're not even aware of what's there and when they

TV on Channel 4 popular shows on YouTube then maybe we will assume that shouldn't have the BBC do something similar that we miss understand the Howard's interrupted viewing experience and and also miss understand.

How actually younger people or people that a bit more tech-savvy have found ways to skip and I don't think you can do it as easily on your TV so we are moving towards that big screen model.

There is a risk that will kind of expose the reality of what the other YouTube platform is in the fact that is Fleetwood as if that is the case.

Why are people that are really excited about the content that been watching on their computers and through their trousers are there going to be a Constable moving to a platform that they don't have as much control over that level of identity in when it was the stats for This podcast on YouTube on Sunday podcasts that we work with people who watch.

The amount average minutes consumes of episodes on the TV people consume for more than later on mobile or on time desktop breakdown the successful barriers that at the ITV News of the World of created and actually content creators can go direct to the audience and then YouTube does enable this now.

I mean I think YouTube is always been used for the creative community and I think what's in diesel found as well.

Is that they get to go and buy possible cases use a lot of the existing IP to have make a lot of sort of content maybe stop montages that they can go in Showcase and one thing that I've been having conversations with Indies who say look we get so much more data than what we would normally convention to get with forecast is so the berries.

This is certainly an opportunity from all forms of storytelling in that you're not so constrained against the whole hour but there are challenges to in around with them.

You know you are at the best or maybe.

Having people who are relying Upon A system that is essentially queue waiting hoping that you pump a pop up on the top of your feed.

I think the Ferrers me some good points about the BBC the BBC and not really getting involved in this world at all in regards to YouTube apart from putting on clips and stuff.

They are very much relying upon their own system and I think that's working well for them and I think in regards to people staying on maybe back to TV or maybe back to BBC if there was some recent report.

I think maybe Enders analysis they said that the decline the forecast TV is actually slowed down quite a bit so we had some dramatic false fairly recently it seems to be seizing up a little bit so maybe there's a bit more optimism make a fine.

I am not sure whether I pay for YouTube premium and I found it is interesting that you supreme 1299 a month, so it's the UK you don't do it.

Netflix is interesting but no essentially YouTube's proposition for paying 1299 is just don't watch what you're doing a music you can listen to any content without leaving the app going to a cheaper version which is just no ads.

No yes if you were right just for the break the Guardian reports of the BBC's agitating for a change at the world service return to taxpayer funding for this is ridiculous, so when the coalition government were in a kind of it that we're back of the paper mats back of back of a paper napkin renegotiation of the licence fee 1 things that they were told to do is that the government will no longer going to pay for the world service on the BBC and licence fee payer we're going to have to pay for inserting instead, which I was personal thoughts ridiculous in Ayr licence fee payers.

Paying for service that they can't access themselves, so it's clear that they are looking to roll that back again.

So it will be a government will be safe funded, and it will be part of soft power of the Foreign Office where they will pay for the service and enough service will be broadcast to various territories around the world as part of a independent impartial service as I say it kind of makes sense to me.

I don't really understand.

Why did the licences top slide to to pay for the to the world service and I think that's that was the Conservatives not a big fan of giving giving any money for babysitting like I said what happened very very quickly and probably wasn't very well thought through so we do need to look at it with a bit more detail and it's good to see that is what's happening particularly with what seems to be a slightly more sympathy.

Towards the BBC and you know in in the world that we look up now with the level of misinformation.

It's out there and and with the challenges that that certain foreign policy in different countries are taking place.

I think the people beginning to wake up to the fact that the world service is incredibly important thing for both the identity of the UK around the world and and how is perceived and but also for those local consuming that concerned because they did really really great work and I think it will be a real shame if it continues to see cuts simply because rightly so the licensee of prioritised for viewers in the UK and what we need to see the service is completely independent of that so it can also be properly funded the influence of Russia and China and how much those countries and on their own channels abroad 6 billion or something from the BBC budget of the BBC in town.

About 6 million massively and then there was there was a report out that said that essentially when the BBC pulled out of one country pretty much directly into Russia could have had the same wavelength pretty much immediately so I think it highlights that I think they like it is still going to be a challenge for the BBC because even know yes, they have got a friend with the government in who are much more.

Keen to fund it is about where whether they were imputed the fat in a Rachel Reeves they made it clear that are not going to be raising taxes wondering how this money is going to come up particularly if we are having cuts which has been reported widely in in the last week of all Ranger public services to then say I'm actually we're going to be ring-fencing the BBC for BBC One TV licence who won't going to be consumed within the UK I think we'll be a bit of a Hard task the wider question is what on earth is going on.

Regards to the future and fever licence go at charter and yours are both side together serve toss out things that should be covered or shouldn't be covered by the small fry compared to when you have to look at my expense as you about future of the licence fee.

I mean essentially you had over the course of the last year the government saying are we know the licence fee is going to be over sort of continuing on the Conservatives line.

They're not really coming up with what they're going to be replacing it with I mean is going to have to be consultations about it, but it's pretty much everyone it was pretty much agreed so far their licence fee is still the best way to find the BBC Story released the least worst worst option, but it's be in a no real clear grand plan for men from anyone really about what the future of the BBC is and the time against the clock and you wouldn't want there to be a rushed process.

A critical time for the media industry for the next 2 or 10-years done on the poo poo experiencing the consequences of that right to this day and if it doesn't do it properly then the whole ecosystem is in a mess up because of it in addition to the cuts in public services.

We've seen a massive cuts and the foreign aid budget as well.

So you know you could argue that is a good thing or a bad thing this I can let you know it's just a way to kind of dance that everything will go for by the wayside as we can increase of Defence budget and and and look away from from foreign aid and which which of these two things does this kind of oil service fall into I mean I think I think a map in Dorset council tax Levy and and I've kind of talks about there being a broadband Levi I think that should a bigger problem now is it's no longer of the amount of money that.

Is as in what is the cost of the licence fee to the individual licence holder him now will see a real problem with non-payment and I think that is gaining momentum without lots of people thinking that they don't want to pay the licence to watch live TV don't watch the BBC will that's what they are going to themselves and said if you stop paying the licence fee returned to you a lot over the next hour long time how the tragic death of a producer is challenging broadcasters to improve working conditions hello Media club listings Patrick hear from podcast Discovery podcast marketing company thinking about the Six Nations why because England rugby star spend Young's and Dan Cole settlement in the podcast Discovery virtual studio recording their chart-topping show for the love of rugby insightful analysis decades of experience and they look great to speak.

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It's a new day a blank slate your mind wondered if you think about your future and all its possibilities you want to find out with your potential career could be like so you decide to do a t level qualification designed with employers.

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What about kids all we've been talking about in the media club this week at those very optimistic radiator Europcar last weekend.

This is a temple event that other people across the concert to talk about how those big breakfast shows don't mean 629 anymore with anything from 6 a.m.

To midday p.m.

The broadcast it's deadline reports that before female BBC news presenters are just days away from a Showdown with the corporation over the way the presenters were hired for the New Look news.

But it still may be avoided J cancer revealed on Tuesday there's been talks over potential settlement something in makeover to become a 5.9.

You may think they were call 5BB wrong that was the word 5 and not the number 5 which is what it is now to a Channel 5 and 5 and Channel 5 and 5 got it yet my TV it was idv the night everyone than ITV1 ITV1 everything on the one hand over then when you search for it is all able to be found quite but I still think it's but I just worry with a view is actually notice or care because if you look at some rebrands, I mean like gold that was UK gold then UKTV gold then g0ld which differ go on laugh daily then that then.

Came you and gold because you was a streaming service and it's just a bit like a get it I get it to do the viewers get it.

I'm not so sure I bet they do some research into into the the Channel 5 name the and I was fascinating what what came back and what people called it.

Did they call the Channel 5 they call it 5 is it just going with what channel is Jane on a cruise the boy band five and five IV actually that was the name of the album.

So they say we now have a British boy band called fried and the British TV channel called this is launched by the Spice Girls

It was terrified, so they should have been at the same time as find this should have got it is yeah ok of TV and memorable moments Award was announced this week you put in 5 and collecting the short.

How did you manage to get that job? Anyway? He's on it.

I mean it was at a joy to be in the room where you were the dating for traitors for 2-hours, but I mean it's it's the only award at the TV baftas, which voted for by the public and it looks at the 2024 year so that's why it's not Linda with her bad acting which I think will be amazing if she is voted that category take me to her bad acting could win a BAFTA with this year for the traitors.

It is a pool could be my son but Ross's you've also got.

The bridgerton scene with Nicola Coughlan and Luke Newton you've also got McCausland is on the three out of six here we go timer since 2016 Swan records began with 120 million viewers of course that's on there and two others Dolan and the post office that's the moment where Joe Hamilton realises that the money that she owes doubles in front of her eyes and there's a 61 and it is from a strimmer and I said really know there's anything I think really highlights why I have a great benefits on this panel.

I can't wait for us.

Can you can you name the sexy thing? I don't think I've watched witches.

Images Jilly Cooper saying that because I won't be able to 100% is a clear.

You know will be voted for in a big way, and it will be and the winner is we cannot show you should have been on the list which which wasn't at the moment.

I like I think that if rivals makes it onto the moment this year does that mean that we're going to see certain other full frontal nudity shop next year does electricity.

Arguing for the sick so I'm not allowed to say that in the case that the people who made that show then realises that they could be no need to be with you, but I think I know the website for you can go and vote tell us what is after the last moments bafta.org moment it was like I knew them all on my head all of yesterday is all it was talk about it today gone gone last week.

We discussed along working hours of Crewe in the media and this week.

We saw the end of an independent report into the factual producer at John Paulson ticketone life just after finishing on the Channel 4 series in the footsteps of Killers produced by Alaska TV Scott was sweetheart know exactly what happened.

What do we know about the situation? I mean we know from the Independent report in regards to the work-related stress this person had been experiencing and it's

In regards to the amount of work related stress involved and I think in the freelance industry of course specifically on Productions long hours.

I think what is interesting from Channel 4S perspective.

No, they said that they have taken on a lot of the recommendations in regards to the reports that was independently put on after his death saying that essentially production company shouldn't circulation mental health resources that they should encourage dialogue of transparency in regards to help Mental Health Matters a in the possibility of introducing a flexible working policy and also additional monitoring and oversight of freelancing working hours and it's in the something that channel 4 say that they are committed to I think in the you have to take it back in to look in the most general sense about the pressures that the freelancer industry within the TV industry have been experiencing and there was another after coughing by Michael Savage

In the garden on Saturday talking about the amount of real answer to a currently working in shops because they are in a day are still being affected by this long-running downturn in the industry and the lack of available work and I think a lot of people if you are lucky enough to get those work to get that work who want talking about what they are experiencing is working hours because of the availability in work if they said they want to be employed again.

It's sort of suffering silence you and Incredibly incredibly tragic case and I think it's important kind of say that I can't begin to imagine the family and how they had to deal with this.

It's interesting that has come back from the report is it? I think the phrase that they discharge their respective duties duties of care.

They are also taking the recommendations which means to me for an oxymoron right either you have done what you need to do or you need to make improvements.

I don't really understand what you saying that it was worse then and now going to prove it or I'll be saying that she was fine, but then but we're still going prove it and it doesn't fit I can't understand how that come about channel for implementing these things for you guys gets added to your budget is something that you think more about.

I think we are constantly Halsey also chasing up for work ourselves which is a stressful situation and when you are free answer and you also looking for work.

We we can empathize I should say but what is your part of this conversation is is Harold we've mature the the TV industry in this country which he has been and now be pushing the Independent sector and on the freelance market without really any thoughts.

About what the consequences are and this is obviously the Most Extreme example of it.

We've also got problems of training and how do we make sure that young people in a new entrants to the market can get trained up so that they made a mistake and be protected by A system that you were doing any other industry and how can you make sure that people got to say about pensions and sustainable workplaces and we'll have the safety is considered when when they are all just working for themselves and as we do moved to an online model and a creator model all of those people are not just working for themselves are creating things themselves.

There is no safety net at all and we have lots of stories about YouTubers in the fact that they need to blind loosely keep uploading more material and there is no reception.

What's the weather? There is nobody there is no trade body that can look after people.

There is no chance to take responsibility.

It is literally every person for themselves and so it is it is an issue with the industry.

I think everyone need to start reflecting it started with this crisis around the freelancer market and and we are.

Stories around that and and shine the lights on them, but the truth is that this is becoming increasingly difficult space for individuals to work in and we all need to be much more sympathetic to that and make it would make that we continue to make programs in a really safe and on its way to be sprinkling Stardust over the media quiz.

It's a new day a blank slate your mind wondered if you think about your future and all its possibilities you want to find out with your potential career could be like so you decide to do a t level qualification designed with employers will help you land a job at place at uni a higher technical qualification or higher apprenticeship some go on mate today your day starts with skills see how you can get started search skills for life.

Yeah, Dave right here and soon and I've still got three new highest one board 13 years tax.

Hundreds of CVs to review for employment contract I should have sent yesterday and now this annual payroll summary what a good thing does employment hero everything employment employment to see what else we can do for you.

Ok mate.

Just some time to do the quiz this week entitled Stardust let's see how much tension I get attention to the media this week now.

There's magic in the Air 3 media stories this week can testify to that.

Oh, I see that you're not a reason to fight the Stardust that's what I have to stay to best of 3 with your name for the answer so Scott you will say they play.

Ok question 1, which royal Star got recommission this week Meghan Markle she filmed the series anyway.

Thank you very much for the show is called a love Megan and as we have argued about returning to Netflix have you watched? I have kids I mean like this.

I think there's been so much fuss about this show and in the people who don't like I said it's the worst thing that's ever happens and people who love her.

I said that this is a great show them in my phone was bouncing across the room for day when it was on would every single.

Am I like you normally contact me know what you're thinking.

I'm going to be real rolled up about to say often like it is pretty much like every other lifestyle programme on the food network on my soul shows and there's a lot of criticism saying is all aspirational.

Have you watched TV does aspiration? All it is like you know I'm going to be preparing bath salts on my friend coming over like vs.

There are very down-to-earth in the here is how you can save some money, but I've Never Been Hurt So is massive storm in a teacup really american-style about it is lots of these shorts all shows over in the US if you know more about this but I heard a rumour that dramas on Netflix now.

I need to have a

Kitchen kind of mood board before they get commission because I'm going to have very aspirational kitchens and that's now the thing for high and dramas on on streamers.

Is it all depends on how to cook kitchen looks so I've not heard about this however have to say this claim on Apple TV Plus what a kitchen sets story very depressing some but the kitchen most intense scenes imaginable.

I was like I would serve the most wonderful platter in that kitchen.

I kitchen island drama this week for selling miracle spring water for as well, and I'm going to say is one of the religious channels.

Obviously doesn't happen, but I can't Simon I can tell you exactly what it was so I'm going to say pretty.

Channel 4 TV channel up.

I think we'll be able to see the chance.

I'm going to say the word network.

That's what your scrambling for the owners to find the channel arguing.

It's audience was predominantly us and have limited understanding of off comes concerns which is fitted to a matter of cultural or market different if you don't understand them just having my miracle water om Scott yes, Anna Foster yes, she is truly missed a programme after their long.

So search since Michelle some stunning denim.and Christmas I mean I I think is a great move.

Perfect for that role in which she has had years and years of live experience she's also I've been on the grounds that reporting she did from the Middle East that was once she had to do for the news at 6 during a major development and she did the whole half hour with live correspondence to enough throwing asking all the questions with no script all done completely on the and if you were tuned in as a casual viewer, you would not have realised I think he's incredibly capable credit determined she's back in the UK has been for a while because she's been doing for News at 1, I think I'm because we understand that came out from the BBC that has what is giving out the Today programme.

I think there's going to be Skype I'm having TV projects.

I think maybe lessons being learnt allowance the Old Talent in terms of you know you have to give them more than just the one show you have to give them opportunities across the BBC quite a bit from Salford which is the news comes from.

Yeah, it's a good choice.

I do I do wonder what you gonna do because I think she was very much connected to that role, and I think it was a surprise many people that she didn't get that job, but I think everything's got as I absolutely incredibly competent journalist and feels like it's going to be a very grey kitchen 218.

I say it was it was an absolute travesty.

They lost Michelle I think she's incredible journalist and I think that that big shoes winner of the quiz you get 17 crates of Media club water which I can't advertise anymore.

It's very sad.

Thank you both like you keep up with what you up to, so we are gold on the school on the socials.

I know that is a freelancer to keep an eye out because we are going to start advertising job soon as we got a few questions over excited about.

You can find me on LinkedIn and all the other platforms apart from one particular one, but yes that will be out later in the month half an hour.

Just at Scotter GP thank you very much for me.

It's at the media club.com when you get update about the show each week is Matt Deegan the producer is Matt Hill it was a retain audio production support from podcast Discovery I will see you next week.

Yeah, but it's Dave Wright year and soon and I've still got three new highest one board 13-year tax code 200 series 2 review for employment contract.

I should have sent yesterday and now this annual payroll summary.

What are good things as employment hero more fool in one place One system everything employment employment heroes.co.uk to see what else we can do for you.

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So retrospective what historical events are we taking off on this week's run of today in history of feminist book about witchcraft becoming likely literary Sensation on Thursday the remarkable story of showgirl turn spy Mata Hari and on Friday brought the east to the West End and more each weekday, wherever you get your podcasts.