Read this: Newsroom Ethics and Tim Davie’s Wish List

Movie event of the year in cinemas July 18th is what have you say sound effects can use it in this is why switch to shopify iPad 3 other Pokémons pressure and I remember my breaking point was when I was trying to make wonderful change in my entire site with go down to find it really easy for me to shift everything over and hit the ground running I was able to information.

I want to the media crap.

I'm your house to Max Deegan do we need a Hippocratic oath for journalism has been in UK Newsroom to deduce whether there's an ethical line beyond don't get sued also on the show at the BBC sets out.

It's still for charter renewal PR Supremo will would it take a through Tim Davies Wishlist copyright another setback and there's more cuts at Disney and Business Insider network quiz we look familiar.

X That's what happened in this edition of the media Club thank you for joining us first time on the sofa your membership card giveaway you in the post, but who else would you like to add to the Gang Ben Lowry who's the editor of The Belfast newsletter which is the oldest continuously published newsletter.

And they just put three nearly 300 years worth of their back catalogue onto online were in collaboration with the British Library and I just think it's very positive local news story about about heritage of local newspapers strange used for paper because it was originally Republican newspaper and that's been a long time, but you don't pay for that was being published before we adopted and calendar for the Titanic which claimed to have a scoop on the American Declaration of Independence now turns out that the London newspapers scooped it first, but it is just really fascinating and I think it's really kind of amazing to have 300 years of continuous newspaper publishing online and accessible people for free library card basic training resource for anybody writing anything about the history of the area of the country as a whole go back and look and see that the papers.

They look quite different but actually are quite similar they still along but you know gossip and crying stories in if it bleeds it leads.

It's all there so I just thought that was that was brilliant story about a newspaper that still going as well welcome back.

Thanks for having me who have you got to make this week, so I'm saying and I have so there is a disclaimer this because I do hope it's going to block you if he's listening and I hope you but I am nominating Rupert majendie.

Who is a producer who works a baby cow but I would say beyond that he has just produced The Ballad of Wallis Ireland which was released last week and we spend a lot of time looking at where new comedy Talent is coming from and what that pipeline looks like John Petrie was talking to head and firm company for BBC you was talking recently at the comedy festival about you know the needs and nurturing and feel confident in comedy that is uniquely.

And I think Rupa is very humble.

I will never Shout himself, but he runs comedy Nights the most successful of which is not too bad.

He is owe money into short films and so forth and he's really ill though.

He previously did Brian and Charles which was a short film that he put money into that went on eventually to become a feature film nominated for BAFTA so was it slightly awkward nominating someone that you do know I think he does deserve a shout out at this time when we need comedy more than ever to excellent additions to our club rolls BBC Boscombe Davis SR his store for charter renewal adult Enders analysis event on Monday he told the BBC's venture capital for the UK what does it always look that way to the public.

Do you think I say no one has ever previously for the BBC's venture capital corporation and you know it?

Budget to realise that but I do think there is something in that and I think he was particularly talking to the regionalisation of the BBC and the fact that unlike you know most of the Opera as they can do a reason rollout in areas that they're investing that trying to kick start in a media landscape on the ground and media ecosystem, but but I do think we have to start thinking of it like that.

You know it.

It feels counterintuitive to think of the BBC as a company because it's you know it's taxpayer-funded and so forth but if that is sort of language.

That is going to get government and people to take it seriously realised that we do have an asset that no other country on Earth has that really punches above it's way that is under growing financial strain and not without it's faults.

I mean they're so if it was a venture capitalist operation things would have happened there sooner than they sometime.

But I do think we have to start seeing the value that the BBC brings and we're going into you know fever conversations about charter renewals and the role BBC plays and in a better place than I am to comment on this but in the sense that we are surrounded by Media that is set out to take the BBC down at any opportunity and I think you know Tim Davie does articulate things in very understandable terms for the people that are the decision makers corporate Media organisations outlets a lot of individuals with power as well.

Is it to think of yourself slightly differently they get a lot of grief from the other media is as well.

We're saying is being an investor for good better than being over broadcaster for good this part of me that cringes at the thought of thinking about it like that, but I can see how.

What makes sense as a tactical use of language? I often think of the media Correspondents a lot of the other newspapers is not really almost left me the corresponding to more auntie BBC Christmas is a sense of like if you can get a story where you can have the BBC the BBC will then cover it themselves over the top after that thing about we all know what was it more useful one.

I think if you start if you frame as a company too much then you get into that thing of I was looking back to when ordering fractions leaving the BBC and he was almost even have Radio 1 Radio 1 if you if you from as a business too much, then then your competitors and haven't same l business be a business like the rest of us not to worry.

I think when it suits him baby.

Speak to the sum of the curse of the BBC director-general is there's always a selection of fires that are probably nothing really to do with you that you are there to put out.

Talk about do you think he does a good job of putting a spin on whether the disaster of the days does a good job of being really attractive and you know I can't really comment on what he's doing and I can a very granular level but he never seems to shy away or duct issues and I think you accept if you the head of the BBC every week probably everyday someone sticking the Boot Inn or or something.

That's gone wrong like any large organisation you sometimes read about things in the someone that is passionately fever fever and Lee a support the BBC you think why are you kicking yourself in this way by not dealing with that thing earlier whatever it is, but I think he yeah.

I mean you know not signed up to the Tim Davie phone clone work with him.

I have no vested interest in praising him, but I think at a time that you do have to be on the front foot and I think it makes a really good point that all of that said you know.

Sometimes get people to understand the value at the BBC brings and I guess that that would be my point on the company element in the think sometimes people just imagine that we all fun day and it just does what it likes and the you know there's no analysis afterwards as to what value that brings but I think but he quit yes, you could be really careful because there are people waiting to Bass you certainly sector and say why you doing that that's out of the things you said they make you think sometimes BBC News takes a little much maybe too much.

Glee in sort of BBC favourites.

Yeah, I think so I mean like you know it's a few years back now, aw on a pretty much had it and I'll definitely have to wait and see if there's a BBC scandal story, they will go and very heavy I guess the trouble.

Is it that you know things like like rabbits are in a very different wake Gary Lineker if they didn't go full in on it, then.

It's a case of all you ignoring this year on the plane.

Thank you.

Have a kind of coat of self flagellation which I think and go too far and I think people within their feel that to a massive opportunity for the BBC at the moment because one of the big things that he was talking about was UK IP and we're at the time.

You know to use obvious examples like baby reindeer and Adolescents that there are distinctly UK stories although talking to universal themes, and so it feels like there's no other things to talk about on the British orientated stuff.

Yeah fool me once being a prime example.

It looks like it's really it's ready made for ITV but you know so I think there's case studies as there's evidence there to show why that is actually the direction travel and it's also on a level Direction travel when budgets are getting tighter and the money is not flowing in from the US and people having to cut their cloth accordingly and I would say comedy is.

And knows how to operate in those really tight, but it's the way that sometime scripted drama doesn't so maybe from the bad will come good of new original comedy is little start seeing the train AI pairs of said know what's going to happen next it if it keeps paint on the back and forth I mean the government could use apartment 46 through but there is no point where the bill could fall with that has happened before I think happening in the early though the late 90s early 2000s around the European elections bill, but it's some it is for them to go nuclear over.

I think they're doing the right thing and I think the government's obsession with gross and they're feeling that well.

We must support AA whatever is is a mistake because I think that have to be rewarded for creating things and making things at ai generative ai is a thief and it just gets it vomit out of things it already knows it's you know I have I'm married to a professor and you know she has a similar feeling about it.

I feel we should be fighting against AI being used to create things in arguments.

Let's have a I doing things like identifying cancers.

That's great.

I shouldn't be making creative things because it can't do it very well and it's too bad that boat sale if you want if you follow the public relations arguments of the big tech companies, but I did but I don't think it makes it doesn't.

Economically look at the valuer creative sector has to the UK vastly vastly bigger than a lot of other sex is it we have been in the news couple weeks back a big thing around fishing and are we going over the Fisherman's but it's like fishing is Tiny compared to create sector in yet, the government seems happy to sort of say I will just give this way.

I am that's that's a bad way to be sorry.

I was just going to read the so there was a line over the last decade the crater in the she's has increase their output more than 1 1/2 times the rest of the economy you and major UK employer you do a growth at home and you project the UK overseas and it was Lisa Nandy that said that and it's quite bewildering that it seems like inches that you know that the government has not actually consulted the in and also because these riders at copyrighted.

You know even if you don't care about what you might see is bleeding Heart create azure artist to whatever what about

What about the you know the things that I meant to protect ideas that if you just try to steamroller something through and you scare mongering Tactics so if you don't vote for this we can't do that over there.

You get into really dangerous place.

I think he's trying to say suggesting sort of opt out for a copyright holders rather than optimal approach something Google does does themselves but if you if you say to Google one opt out there will cost Optima bold of all Google things just because big tech there aren't enough big tech providers in the powers holding the hands of the few and they can drive this forward.

Yes partly that is partly that they've done a really good.

They've done a really good job on the height, but they've done a really good job and telling us that this will be this will be the future.

I think the problem around anything when you get told this will be the future's is this sense of being told things were inevitable I just

Fully don't believe it's inevitable.

It's the same thing with not just with with entertainment but with journalism and saying Actually no.

I think we need to argue and say organic is better food.

We should look at eyes being like ultra processed food like a output is is not good for us and it will not be good for creativity in all aspects and we should fight against and it's inevitable and it's new and nuanced as well in the sense that yes as Mick says there's parts of AI that will enormously help journalism is already been used by a lot of journalist, but doesn't have to be all-encompassing in the same way that you can use AI amazingly well within the creative Industries with that doesn't mean when you've got copyrighted work that you should feel pain with government telling you It's inevitable all that it's ok.

You'll be protected when it's work.

That is increasingly hard to monetize anyway you work.

Is AI on the agenda of the talk about it affecting the what day do or hasn't quite got her that I think massively.

I think think it's probably among the chief concerns of people that I think certainly in TV and film.

I think I think people working caps in comedy where it's you know.

There's a lot more direct interaction with the audience so it's baps to a lesser extent until I I can physically stand up on a stage to make an audience laugh, maybe it had enough and we should be more concerned about but but yeah, I think it is a bit concerned but I do think it's a bit concerned because of the lack of understanding and it feels like large.

What has happened with this particular bill is that there has been a lack of Clans people asking questions and they're not getting reassured them, but I will also say you know in the interests of pudding.

Sort of positive spin on things were very quick to criticise government you know we've had a decade or more of Sting has been steamrolled through whatever we think let's praise Lisa Nandy and Co for listening to the large group of people saying you can't do this and hope that there is ongoing engagement because I do believe you you know she think she actually cares about the industry and her role as culture sex so let's hope that they get rid of their say yes, that is the where's my own need redirecting very soon.

Yeah, OK finally just for the break another job cuts at Disney this time focus on marketing as well as production and Business Insider press that reports half the size.

It was 3 years ago.

How you make a Business Insider sudden transitioning to a paywall offer used to be very sort of Google traffic driven operation is the

Natural Pains of the whole model changing underneath them.

I think that the change in their model is a bit of a distraction when you come through and the job titles and amount of time people spend at the company looks like they're going these people have higher salaries.

We're going to cut them out and we're going to work on the junior employees and that's that's what's actually happening there.

That's that's what it looks like to me and then again.

They saying we want a hundred percent of people using a I work here so that's not the fact.

I'm not in business and that's just me surmising by I think it's always interesting use it's all like people long long time served and and job titles and it's just let's call them and and Force junior staff to work if that is the case.

They would probably say it wasn't if it is the case.

It's like we've got her.

Our model does not work.

We cannot afford the scale of that staff and if we don't make these changes with we done that experience though and I want to write things we want to produce things that are you know in depth and quality experience and contacts what breaks stories and not bringing that start I eat to me.

It looks like a classic case of executives.

Are we going to be no let's let's get things cheaper.

Let's get the head count down.

Let's get the costs down and Force people to produce more for less and it never ends up with better quality stuff.

It just doesn't just not going to happen and we seen it happen with loads of these kind of bastion's of the 2010s media News of the World the things that are doing very well signing up to here for.

Is USA made a really high quality experienced journalist something the sort of clickbait e stuff isn't even being highlighted anymore.

I mean do you think there may be several dancers and possibly make an incredible people to Moreton really fascinating substack as well it to your point.

It does feel like we're the time.

I think the looking at the Business Insider there traffic is as you know half door.

What was the figure in 5-years? So there are those challenges, but also the CEO saying we're going to go all in on a I suggested.

It's you know.

It's still a bit of a race of the bottom.

So yeah that possibly but it but I do think there is something and I think this applies to other businesses where you can see what's happening sometime you know the industry.

And Industries evolve that quickly and sometimes you find that the infrastructure is just far too large to sustain the business model that you that you have a reality you know I'm not endorsing cuts by the way, but the reality is looking certainly in the areas.

I know TV film where people of its been about growth and hiring sweeping up and then at some point that levels off and he will go actually now we need to lose some some of the headcount.

I think there's a bit on keeping keeping up with the trends and then suddenly realised that the world is changed and the company's for the pups doing slightly better of changed the mood of consumers and the way things are working what what does what is Business Insider what does it mean to read it? I think that it's one of those brands.

It's been a bit because it has changed over the time quite a lot of time when it was.

Insider and then went back to business as I'm not sure that there's a it's a brand that has a reader loyalty to it and then that's why it was so subject to the terms of algorithmic changes because what is it therefore? What is it purpose? What does it mean you I thought that a long time ago.

I worked in music magazines and when we started to find the film magazine as well and then all culture and we'll just trying to be everything and that's still a problem now.

I think I don't know what is inside was meant to be I think they're going to continue to struggle cause.

What's it for reading wants to go there specifically this Business Insider I think audience is getting why you some of the clickbait tax it to use as well which I do think is why particular individuals credible turn this running substacks people that are doing deeper dive investigative journalism, although further and further between than ever now.

It seems to be increasingly popular.

I mean I signed up to.

Manchester Evening News news News alerts or whatever because I used to live there and every 5-minutes you getting a breaking news major drama kicking off and you just think I think audience hopefully so that form of what I would say as you know low-end journalism Manchester Mill to come in and provide down on the ground and do what local journalism yesterday have salute hello Media club listeners, Patrick hear from podcast Discovery podcast marketing company are not just avoid on an advert project manager is whether or not you need to social and video ERP stand or anything else to find out more about the team or anything else to do with podcast marketing.

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It's only predictable the sun appears and sodium friends, but I'm curious.

Do you make delectable with Hendrick's Gin lightbulb refreshingly with Hendrick's Gin back until I guess his only been talking about the media club this week last week David Drennan tyres Channel 4 studio division be good for the industry, but not quite house Sony's Wayne garvie.

Tuesday the starting the production of from scratch with no ip to speak off with preposterous ridiculous of potentially disastrous for the broadcaster, dontholdback way meanwhile weekly newspaper The New York

Is changed it's name to the new world that found him at Kelly told readers on Thursday I've been looking for a way to reach new readers who feel exactly the same way about these new times as we all did in 2018 after the brexit referendum new hires include Sonia sodha from the Observer and adolescence Netflix second biggest English language series with 141 million news putting Stranger things into third place any guess what's in first place anybody it's Wednesday the Addams Family spin-off.

I'm annoyed at myself did know the most popular thing and everywhere sensible thing for them to do it I think so because I think that when you look at what been inside of paper for quite a long time they've been they have been expanding and being more.

Global Vision globalist then and totally different create a sense of I mean like I think they do a similar thing it's like create this This Club Around the around that the paper and then get people involved nothing but welcome back 35000 subscribers play all the things he should be doing where are the products can only manage to cancel the new World by using I think so.

Yeah.

I mean I think I would a dare say both type was a fairly boring and safe.

I think you know replacing one for another.

Absolute fine, but I think there's always interesting things to let you know what you guys were just saying in terms of why you doing that what what has shifted outside of Europe and we need to spend too long thinking about that but but yeah, I mean it's always a challenge and it's always a risk in people get very nervous about change and replacing you know titles are perfectly honest.

I think most people now.

It's that we we all have such short-term thinking that newer companies particularly Media can take the risk and you know the reward is that to make watches people do if they get to newsagents about the new World Order still with me hold up breaking how the media works when it doesn't and why it matters is all good.

Worksop Santander bonds to people who know a lot about the media, so it is it's a guide for people who you know frustrated by the way, that's what they see in the media and to give them a sense of how to separate the good from the bad how to understand why bad Media hat and the both the structural reasons for it, but also the interpersonal reasons that the historical reasons all of that kind of thing so it goes it goes revelling from and how do people become journalist so little bit of Memoir at the start for me but also looking at the Tree of journalism education in the UK and more widely looks ownership prices political journalism interviewing what happens when you become the centre of a story.

Essex you know.

Why do we still feel comfortable is huge Media packs descending on small towns and communities when something tragic happened.

It's pretty.

It's pretty broad covers a lot of areas and I guess I guess if you're if you're someone who worked in the media by it to see if if I've mentioned to invite people to look at the morality of The Newsroom what did you find when you started to do that? There are some things that we say that we will search.

We've always done that Oldfield the best example is the death knock I think the death notice to treat treated as a kind of rite of passage for news journalist, but that's why it when someone dies people on the families daughter interview prompted the example of not doing that.

Couldn't fastening movie when they were shootings in in Plymouth and Plymouth Lytham and said we not going to do that if you want to come to us with if you want to speak to us about your experience but we're not going to go round and knock on doors not going to do that because people in unusual been affected we know how to effect the community.

I think that was really interesting because the national present I think that there are one person to be ok, but then you look at it.

It's in 01520 30100 and the experience for an individual on the trauma for the individual is huge and I think there are better and

More responsible ways are going about that now, and I think there is a case and it's problem in any industry really of within the within an organisation that we've always done it this way and that then Close Junior stuff on the joining Colchester change unless people start saying we could do this differently long time.

We had some a lot of yous going into writing the book surprise your changed your mind as you were searching it on talking to more individuals.

I guess they established a broadcaster for one of the channels.

Do I get on really well with he said I really like your works Media critic for what I find his what worries me is people already don't have trust in the media and you write.

The highly critical stuff around the media is that not just helping you know the world of the situation and and it and it did make me think about it and I was and I did try to inject a little bit more positivity now when I'm talking about stuff, but I think that if you go back 1520 years there was a lot more Media criticism within the media like with a newspaper.

I don't know what you think that I mean you look back in the Guardian had such a strong Media section and wrote about that and they were Media critics another papers the Independent to quite a lot of good Media criticism and I feel so post Leveson it's almost like this feel well.

We got through that let's not look at ourselves to carefully I mean the national press.

There is always been a source of not talking about each other and occasionally things through well, obviously Guardian about their coverage happy about it, but there is a sort of unwritten rule is that the families leave eachother alone? Yeah, definitely.

I've been told and told by a decent sources well that there's been a sense in the Guardian since they lost change them that they've become a little bit more like we shouldn't really like the rest of the newspaper so much because we're all in the shits lift each other up.

I don't think we've been in that situation for awhile as well willing to go each other of course is a nonaggression pact between the Romans and the murder on the first part of the show me a I can give her very professional Sheen to unprofessional contents is there a big Media literacy issue for the Punch understand? What is truthful? What is honest? What is professional in America the whole idea of professionalism? It's bad your experts.

Don't know anything.

I think there's a huge problem that I think there's been a problem that for a long time.

I think it goes back to the demonisation of media studies and the sense you know tickling up the governor of the constant attacks on media studies is the thing that say Mickey Mouse and Mickey Mouse subject we don't need it and that's done as a lot of damage now should an adult and we need people in school being taught really early on to be critical of sources and look more carefully at what's being produced.

Yeah.

I would with the growth of a I only going to get harder and so we need we need better Media literacy, and I think we need to treat those subject a little bit more seriously such a good point you know and I'm guilty of it.

Cos you know I got I do probably what I do now because in High School in Leeds really enjoyed media studies then went to university and studied it and almost wet.

Not that it comes up that often.

University whatever what horse was it it was called jam and screen studies because their closest thing I could get to media studies without you.

Just said you from Norwich the other place was going to go with East Anglia which are amazing university too far for me to move back to Leeds but but I'm guilty of it because you know when people ask about University I say, I just did media studies.

So you know I had all the time in the world.

I was watching films whenever actually you know when I'm talking to relatives in their quoting things that they've read in the Daily Mail or you're talking to niece and nephews about where they information you know it's so important that people have this understanding of how the media works what the vested interests are and I do think actually the last 4 years both politically and things that covid everybody has got more of an understanding of how the media works, but not always entirely correctly.

They should have know that there's maybe slightly more Shades of Grey but they go in the right to.

Yeah, yeah absolutely but it's really important in this world of you know so much more fake news and actually a lot of the credible place is giving good information or reliable in fact based reporting under attack.

Yeah.

I think we do have to Almost stop I have to stop and anyone else doing it as well has to stop the belittling of media studies resources of the understanding that we need it.

I'm a proud of Media Arts graduate myself as well about courses like this again.

If there's a mix of of studies for food on the grass and post grad, what should a journalism school be teaching nowadays, what's the important for the next 10 years looking at what cities saying they wanted to do the helping people be better at managing Communities and and and and and

Online to the way you work with online Communities is only the important.

I think that the ethics of New Zealand is talk in life think it could be better.

I think you I think any time that they have practitioners coming in I think it would be really useful to have more opportunities to speak to people have been subject of the song.

I don't think that happens enough there on the subject of literacy Runner news as well as we just saying about sometimes people that isn't so but I think it's really important thing to be taught in German courses in education.

Generally is also the interaction between cops and conspiracy on that because I think one of the things that people mistake is that they think that newsrooms are so well organised and structured that it's important to sort of hearing.

BBC no sense of the BBC such a bigger than real the operation to think that there's it possible to control the shadowy figure far too much credit if the work if they were more actual conspiracies and Jordan journalist given enough free canapes and loads and loads and I think that is being very humble about what is probably a fascinating book in will be fascinated people at me that work in the middle media and starting Nick Davis is such a seminal reform is particularly someone doesn't reload but it was fascinating and depressing but also you know as a company we work and lots of factual including recently things like the Nicola bully documentary that Rogan made in which was part Uno retelling this horrific story but also looking at the role of Media which encourage.

Amateur sleuths even colder than that turning up and essentially making what was an awful situation of the family even worse that's a really good idea about the situation quite a bit in the book because the signal got me with was Kay Burley and skies north of England correspond walking through through Village doing at doing a life interview and they just stop a guy don't tell him he's live on Sky News and start asking about that and that whole thing was so clearly wrong and then you quite early on what actually happened if they did no quite early on but as he say that the amateur sleuthing the true Crime thing.

I think something that is going is it that is a sort of slow burning scan on the bridge nearest the way that look at the Daily Mail particularly their creating is true Crime podcast networks and network.

They will do podcast on the stuff.

That's so exploited the Lucy let me when they did the mail this was honestly one of the most grotesque things I've ever had the misfortune to have to consume work purposes nothing that kind of stuff.

Is is a problem.

I will back to commercialisation immediate mean.

She's a popular podcast number one the public Desire is the public complicit partly in this to the interaction between what is the public interested in it and what is in the public interest and we know the two things are separate and the public does have to take some some responsibility for it the Daily Mail online sidebar of shame is so effective because we keep reading it and I'm near to who in a who is this style that I don't know I'm going to read about it anyway, breaking works when it doesn't and why it matters out next.

Will you been pretty busy recently is always back to season 2 rewards to deal with my personal unfortunately I still wait at work waiting for the call up for leading actor.

Not come yet.

Yeah afterwards have the season pass rewards TV awards and we also do games and TV craft.tv craft qualified by the fact that it's incredibly still difficult.

I don't want to always come on here and talk about the difficulties of the industry, but they exist and there are ongoing I think people were saying survive until 25 have no idea what you're saying for 26 but in 20-minutes to 26/3 in the mix of something but but yeah it was it was but I think you know with the TV awards what why people might not always think Awards are necessary who's watching them the TV ratings remain incredibly strong.

The they give work that might not initially get recognise the chance to find an audience and also read know what does brilliantly year round.

They're not just about rewards, but you can Direct interventions where there are issues in the industry, so recently looking at the lack of opportunities for women directors and so photo that was always busy, but you know if you're if you're a potential client out there were always will love to hear from you.

So please keep coming back.

Ok.

Just enough time for the audio like Media quiz.

Let's see how much attention to the media news this week.

I guess I've been paying a right this.

Week's is called Media fax stiri mediafax.

Those tiktok tutorials simple don't they a Bitesize life hack that makes chose a little easier, so he is three imagined light packs based on media news stories from the week.

Will you tell me what the

Once again Alex audio network is taking incredibly 10 years from producer Man come out with him tyre sweet of music to score today's game is the best of 3 to bother with your name if you know the answer, so will you will say will and make you will say let's play media hacks to mediafax.ro fluent say impression ready for you stop bro.

You promise not to use NBA the silencer employees make thank God you say anything about what what is what is giving it a few dates Channel 4 once again being at right size for using and EH22 silence members of staff that had bereavement against.

The company and it's the fact that they sort of saying what's Normandy it doesn't have any other end of the top prize in I know that's what it's all the person who sang in the sense that these kind of being used but they're just calling them differently forthcoming free speech the settlements and you know it never looks good for news organisations as well this sort of chat and you know I would say it is not to fall on the lock the criticism of things we've been talking about earlier, but it's the standard thing you know people leave if they raise grievances that might be dealt with but that it will come with a very strict term that you can't then go and you know it says on the settlements of confidentiality clauses in them, but they've always been cleared.

They should never pretend individuals from Raising issues of serious wrongdoing can those two things together it often does?

Because I think people are these little Dreamers quite frightening the best in the world.

I don't think that they are that is just my opinion, but I there's a wider issue with Andy as in in in in the news industry in the broadcast news industry that needs to come out.

What can an investigation last year about it.

It's the other difficulty with dealing with these things is that the legal powers of the broadcast they come down very hard when you try and investigate the well said he's quite it comes back to you earlier as well with individuals vs.

Organisations to do investigations into this kind of stuff.

It's a lot better if you've got a after.

Bring them into my call and when 100k in euros.

It's um it's his Gerry Adams who has won a legal victory in the High Court over BBC documentary that essentially accused him of being involved in in someone's murder in regards to the case is always kind of worried about the chilling effects from the sorts of rulings that mean anything different like a Northern Irish medium.

I think about these things in a different way.

I think it's it's very difficult world over there and married to an unmarried woman and I have no nose family.

It takes me back to appearance by John Adams on a late night.

Talk show bye-bye call Vincent Browne back when he was standing to be president of Ireland and denies that he was ever a member of the IRA and during the interview Vincent Browne

Getting every time you asking whether he been a member of the IRA you got another book out that claimed the Gerry Adams a member of the Rain by the end of the interviews are very big staff, so it's been a long running thing this think that the BBC documentary here is falling foul of some difficulty in Worthing ended up coming out on the wrong side for them.

I think I'm slightly surprised if I'm ok mediahack number 3 short of celeb interviews for European magazine and why not try this well.

She Wii hack yassify it so probably know or something.

Will is this something about Clint Eastwood is about someone pretending that they had interviewed him, but then he came out quite strong instead of have nothing to do with this statement after Austrian Manchuria interview that was never given by the Hollywood legend.

Call features as I'm not usually involved in the personal anymore, but I don't think I'm aware that is happened, but I'd like to think I'd know about it, but it will happen all things get completely out all the other thing that happens often is it's one quote that is then blasted into one big huge interview on the front page of the most shocking.

How old is Clint Eastwood 9595? Why are we doing this to a 95 year old isn't he entitled to a peaceful existence now interview.

That's the question aggregated to places like deadline who who are then the outlet that reported.

From saying I didn't say this stuff.

I think they would have gone under the radar if it hadn't have been you know picked up and not checked by a lot of bigger outlet my deadline should know better relations make a first-time like they're bringing the quiz and Mick Wright and of course the Alex audio network for this week.

Sweet of music are they can do this for your next project as well? Just had to go website audionetwork.com keep up with your good work with Wi-Fi on your firm find our social media accounts a look on multitude media.co.uk and you can find out all the things that are team working on including things like the forthcoming season of Gladiators make Lee be watching yes, that is my step daughters.

Documentary made by Rogan and Netflix about grenfell, which will be an important watch so they haven't announced who's in it yet, but watch this space Mick give me a quote for what you up to as well as a substitute for conquest of the useless you can you can find it if you search that it's the second under the book by Werner Herzog where I stole the title is broken bottle boy that substack.com every week from us about the show in the producer is Matt Hill it was a rethink audio production video support from podcast Discovery and I'll see you next week.

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