Read this: Broadcasting Gaza: Doctors Under Attack, Tim Franks, F1’s media strategy

Music Radio podcasts and Katie hello my Ros Atkins this is the media show from BBC Radio 4 this week on the media show the BBC is in the spotlight on Saturday the BBC stream Bob Dylan Glastonbury in which the crowd as lead in chance of death to the idf the Israel defense forces and this remains possible to view on iPlayer 4 hours the BBC says.

Will look at what happened to channel 4 documentary about medics in Gaza after the BBC decline to and we'll speak to BBC journalist in Franks his new explores being a Jewish journalist covering the Middle East for the British Grand Prix Formula 1 Media strategy, but we're going to start with the BBC later on Channel 4 broadcast the documentary Gaza doctors under attack that's after the BBC decided it wouldn't broadcast the program despite having spent more than a year working on it with the production company films CBBC has said we have come to the conclusion that broadcasting this material risk creating a perception of partiality that would not meet the highest standards at the public right we expect BBC no Katie we should be clear all broadcasters have to adhere to a code enforced by the media regulator Ofcom that applies to BBC but also to Channel 4 salute leasowe.

Broadcasting code on top of that every channel also has its own codes if you like, but it has to adhere to sort the BBC they called the editorial guidelines that deal with things including accuracy impartiality fairness and much more on Channel 4 also has something similar and it has obviously taking the decision that this documentary fulfils all those in the BBC doesn't think it does is broadcast on Channel 4 approaches has the BBC shared any more detail on the reasons why it shows not to go forward no not really it said it's waiting on a report on another country.

That's a documentary people will remember which has caused controversy when it emerged after transmission that the child narrator was the son of Hamas official that report still hasn't arrived now.

I've been told by people close to the film that The Documentary that is now being broadcast on Channel 4 that they were initially told the delay didn't relate to that report then there were left at all that did relate.

They also told me the BBC had decided to months ago.

It wouldn't run the film that was the only made that announced within the last 2-weeks when it says he wouldn't be running it at all.

Well.

We ask the BBC to take part in this edition of the media show declined we are they going to hear a number of perspectives on this first from Dorothy Byrne former head of news and current affairs at Channel 4 who I asked why she thinks the Channel 4 is broadcast programme did the BBC chose not to must be the case that channel 4 believes that this film complies with the outcome regulators regulations requiring that it is fair accurate and Julie impartial and those regulations are exactly the same regulations that the BBC has to comply with but it's quite possible isn't it for two broadcaster to assess a program and to draw different conclusions as to whether they are.

Ready to proceed and broadcast will the regulations are the regulations and a program either is compliant or is not complying if a program is fair accurate and Julie impartial it can be broadcast and it should be broadcast England still be controversial to broadcast the program but the issue is does it mean with the regulatory requirements.

I've never known a case.

I cannot think of one where one public service broadcaster commissions and paid for a film and decided it wouldn't put it out and then another broadcaster said it was fine to put out, but I've got the state of the BBC put out about his decision not to broadcast and it says we have come to the conclusion the broadcast in this material risk creating a perception of partiality.

Would not meet the high standards that the public right the expect of the BBC and a good the BBC has its own editorial guidelines.

Do you accept that something that may work and be acceptable Channel 4 can also reasonably not work for the BBC and its editorial guidelines.

I feel very suspicious about this term the perception of reality.

I think that is Julie impartial under regulation or racism we can't start saying will beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we know that there has been around about people being scared to see things in universities because other people might perhaps be up.

We don't want that to creep into broadcasting.

What about comments made by those involved in making the program their production companies found a Ben de pear.

In appearance at the Sheffield documentary festival at the BBC Italy failed we know the ramita navai went on the BBC Today programme and cold Israel a rogue state and there's also speculation about what individuals may have posted on social media and whether that was part of the BBC's calculations if they were passed the BBC's calculations.

Is it reason to take people's personal statements as part of the wider context around whether you broadcast something or not? I don't like the idea that broadcasters should judge a program on anything other than for the program itself is Julie impartial all this thing that's going on at the moment of people trawling through years of people's tweets to find some controversial.

Opinion, I think it's very dangerous in the democracy.

It's the sort of thing that happens in police States more broadly the BBC has said several times that one of the initial reasons for not broadcasting This documentary was that it was conducting a review into a different documentary on Gaza title Gaza how to survive warzone.

It said it wanted to hear the conclusions of that Review before then considering broadcasting the documentary that we're focused on in this discussion.

Do you think that delay was reasonable the previous programme when two months ago and it's only one programme why I cannot understand.

Why they are still a review or an investigation into it is absolutely ridiculous.

They need to conclude that investigation and they need to publish that invoice.

Station but you cannot say regarding what is probably the most important international story in the world today you cannot broadcast any major film about it because you're carrying out a review into another film that you made months ago that that does not make sense and it isn't right the British people have the right to see films about Israel and Gaza the conversation we are having at the moment is focused on This documentary which Channel 4 is broadcasting but of course as you'll be well aware there have been a series of stories all of which and different ways to the conflict in the Middle East that have involved the BBC do you think that day in their totality add up to 2 and institutional?

The first thing is overwhelmingly the BBC news coverage is outstanding.

It's a huge story.

It's a story that changes very quickly mistakes will be made Monday or mate.

They should be connected but overwhelmingly think that the journalist work for the BBC are doing a very good job, but they have had three instances this film The Glastonbury filming and the film about children and Gazza where they have made mistakes that you're aware.

I'm sure the Secretary Lisa Nandy has said that put all of these things together and you start looking at issue of leadership.

Do you think that's fair? Yes, I think there is a miss you of l.

Because 3 mistakes have been made about Gaza but the BBC seems to make basic mistakes about other things when something goes wrong like to read words or Jimmy Savile listen to me very basic mistakes.

Not apologise quickly enough karaoke investigation sometimes and we often never hear what happened, but we shouldn't confuse those mistakes with the other world fat lots of incredibly good journalist work for the BBC at Dorothy Byrne former head of news and current affairs at Channel 4 Channel 4 current head of news and current affairs published and explanation ahead of the broadcast of This documentary she writes after rigorous fact-checking in assessing the film against our own editorial criteria.

As well as against all regulatory requirements we decided that it was both compliant with the Ofcom broadcasting code but also that it was important journalism in the public interest and we should invite Channel 4 to take part day and it declined there are of course any number of issues to work through here and I'm delighted to say we've got Rosamund Urwin Media editor at the Sunday Times with us and also has an independent Media consultant and former head of standards and Ofcom both of you are regulars on the media show so welcome to you both Rosamund if we just start with you your reacts faster channel four's decision to go ahead.

Obviously they said that it's been friends actually said it and obviously have a lot more attention now, but it might have done if it was just another documentary on Gaza their right.

That's it feels.

We haven't covered enough of the but I would argue that we don't cover the conflict in Sudan anywhere near the degree that we could do it.

That's not you need I can understand it made a decision, but I can understand completely had the BBC has made a different decision and I think people have obviously been very critical including the BBC in a lot of BBC journalists are incredibly unhappy and Tim Davies saw that the sort of town hall.

He held where he got sort of Progressive question BBC journalist and about why they haven't run This documentary, but it is difficult and well.

I think Dorothy makes many Fifa points I don't quite agree on the social media issue in that by Janis or how to an incredibly high standard with what I put on social media and obviously so I've got into trouble on that and I think it is a complex thing when you have on such an issue that causes so much.

And I'm going and Scrooge and his so scrutinised to have social media accounts that are so appear to be showing what the person's views before the documentary has been the year of working with the BBC before this appears to if it's true because I have become a problem.

Yeah.

I feel a hyper aware does investigation at took for years and in that time.

I was incredibly careful what I said about that individual social media this isn't about an individual is about a broader issue, and I can understand that they want to share good journalism as they sit on their social media.

Ok need to be incredibly careful about that.

Is you and I do understand and I said.

Don't but I understand it's come to this decision ok.

Let me just here and you can help us Chris I think there's something that people listening might be asking that question that Dorothy Byrne is it possible that something is ok for Channel 4 to broadcast but not for the BBC even though both are subject to the Ofcom broadcasting code for the daughter use what's the word due impartiality two people come to two different decisions.

I think just step back a bit.

I think the main problem here is that yet again we know the BBC's reasons for saying that this programme cannot be transmitted.

They talked about the perception of partiality.

What does that actually mean and the problem here? Is there may be valid but not transmitting this program.

May be reasons.

I don't want to give out a publicly but there is a vacuum about the reasons and base of Conspiracy and speculation films that guy.

But you asked whether or not there are different standards will different interpretations join the 2017 charter renewal.

I did analysis and report for the what was the BBC trust and there is no doubt that the ECU the editorial complaints unit the BBC found many more breaches of its own content in a party out in accuracy and Ofcom ever did what does that mean that means the BBC more cautious is possible that people would say that have either have a higher standard or I would have a different stand it is only standard.

That's within the Ofcom code, but clearly if the BBC's finding impartiality which is an accuracy reaches and its own content and I think in terms of impartiality for public service broadcasters for Ofcom their relatively rare there something different that I'm not going to argue whether it's higher lower or but there is something different but Rosamund there is potentially a risk if we pick up on my Christmas saying there the attention to do.

Charity tips over into something which stifles the BBC's journalism and the others are both made by independent production companies obviously has broadcast its own content about Gaza sandwich, then critically acclaimed I would argue.

It's really difficult for the BBC and to use independent companies pause.

Its own jealous as you both know I have been Creda be careful and meeting incredibly high standard on this issue, and so now in the context of something that is so you know igniting of opinion and and people are so I'm passionate about their challenges using independent company is that I think that's quite that's because that is where the issue is it's not that it's that actually there's a problem when they're using external companies make on tenderizer, and yes, I do think that is an issue for them all those external companies the two that you talk about.

Different don't understand because one is a filmmaker a good film maker but a very small town in the Independent production company in the other is somebody run by somebody who ran Channel 4 news for a very long time and has a great experience ASDA's the team you are you Persuaded by the BBC's argument that he needs to wait for this report into the Other Guys adopt me to come out when they already taken several months well to be fair to the BBC is actually only 4 months and Channel 4 News had its own problem with the Westminster attacker and I seem to remember that investigation took around all the time at the BBC in that occasion was very quick within days explaining what was the problem with the the original Gaza and how to survive a war zone depends on what the issues are if they believe the issues are very similar to those of the previous cars and then they should wait if I'm completely different issues and there's no reason and of course we the public or commentators.

We don't actually.

What is you is but isn't the thing here Chris the when you have a story is urgent as the situation in the Middle East and you have an institution that the BBC which was produced long-form journalism on that story to say well.

We can't put documentaries out on this subject and tell a report which is taking several months comes out potentially stools too much work.

Yes, I told you I think the lesson to be learnt for that previous documentary everybody knows and I think to hold it back simply for that is not good enough reason is something very similar so I think the BBC does need to make decisions in this area quicker and for me a lot clearer and give it to reasons and what about the BBC's efforts to explain itself every institution has its own communications strategy in this case the BBC has someone up for interview either to are sore or elsewhere on this particular issue.

What do you think about this week? What do you think about that?

Grateful that we get that haven't ordered because they haven't been you know released in the state of the BBC so there's upside there, but it turns to the broader point absolutely I think they should be much more clarinets communications and I think there is a problem.

We've had this on repeated issues, where they feel like this has gone down and they should have put more out into the world.

Yes absolutely as I think they need to be much more open and it is worth saying I'm putting the perspective of the BBC even though they haven't come and I'll program to present we will put a bit of it which is The Corporation said that contrary to some what's the documentary had not undergone the BBC's vinyl.pre broadcast sign off processes, so any film that forecast anywhere will not be a BBC film now.

We also husband a pair from basement films onto the program.

He wasn't able to take part, but just to let you know we're getting ready to come on.

Are we saw the bender pair of posted a link to post on LinkedIn let me read you some of it.

Crescent Rosamund will get you to react and a pair says it's already passed through so many other compliance hope this is a reference to the film The Channel 4 steamer a cut Above the best and they're purely about the 2 pillars of broadcast journalism balance and accuracy the BBC currently have a third politics and they comply from that first and foremost and it is ruining them so very very strong words from Ben de pear I can't look into the BBC's Whitstable I don't know whether it Politics of not, but the bottom line.

Is this would I find that you cannot judge the impact of this program until you've watched it.

I've not watched it a lot of people coming about this.

So I don't know the reasons why the BBC made a decision.

I think that's problematic.

I do but I haven't watched it and I can't say with this Julian Marshall you can get on tonight.

No, I have not have you seen it.

I requested it from Channel 4 but they won't scream.

Yes, so now I did try another comment I wanted to bring into the

Is Roger Mosey former senior executive at the BBC now holding a senior role at Cambridge University he told the Guardian it is clearly a problem the BBC is not been able to deliver satisfac long form TV documentaries on conditions in Gaza the editorial complexities are real but equally it's a subject that must be reported in current affairs films was made you think that's fair.

Yes, and I think they're going to get the position of the only be can make those kind of films is BBC themselves to meet there Saturday would be just once the real problem here is not allowed into Gaza and can't be forgotten it.

It's very difficult to make these films and that's what I partly we've got into sort the problems that we have until you allow journalist Independent Jewellers two guys that you're going to continue having problems.

No this isn't the only involving the BBC because of what happened at Glastonbury at the weekend K2 you and I were both at the festival was DJing so there in a personal capacity.

You are covering the festival the BBC news and on Sat

A story rapidly developed the end of the program used to the story because this was about a set that happened on the west Holts stage one of the stages at Glastonbury the BBC already decided it wouldn't stream of performance on Saturday afternoon by the Belfast rap trio kneecap, but I heard of that performance.

It was live streaming a punk duo called Bob Dylan I was there they were comments made on stage including chanting about death to the idea of the Israeli Defence Force the statement that sometimes violence was necessary it is necessary to get your message across another comma have been deemed anti-semitic now the BBC did put up a warning about discriminatory language, but it didn't pull the live stream and then the full stream of that stage which continued contain lots of facts that had before about the day did they up for several hours in these types of situations what precautions are available to broadcasters to avoid this happening.

Well, I mean in the first thing as they did with kneecap.

They should have had a risk assessment which they clearly didn't for Bob Dylan also did it was an adequate then we need to put inside of mitigation situation and possibly delay or record one thing they must do with things like Glastonbury and we've had this time and time again at these live pop events is have someone listening and what the output now.

I find it very difficult to believe that somebody listened or watch that and didn't say we have to pull it and we have to pull it now and if I wasn't somebody listening then that is a problem itself and please let me saying cos I've been doing this for several days.

We don't know because we haven't been told by the BBC but the fact that they did put up that warning which wasn't already up.

They put up that warning about discriminatory languages suggest somebody was watching is my sense of it.

I don't know what you think is that it will somebody who didn't have the power or didn't think they had the power to pull it and by the time they referred it up and it was talked about.

That was already lol we also says that you should have a sommelier senior executive in place to be able to make those very quick decisions.

I also think using a disclaimer discriminatory language Stop Me That Happened is just not adequate and it doesn't really describe what you can't you can't stop that from happening.

So I think you know the again.

You'll take on your public same as we need to look at your editorial guidelines to see whether adequate.

I'm sorry they're absolutely I've got there's not a problem there at all.

This is clearly human error and I don't I don't quite understand why somebody wasn't urgent appear to be watching or listening and how serious an area, is this it's a very serious.

I mean that it's a live broadcast there's no doubt about it things like this will happen the problem is that currently carried on for 20 minutes and also the life he was available for 5 hours off with some people go backwards and forwards, where does the regulator fit into this then you have worked off.com wear.

What would it do in the days weeks following something like this? It's not quite as straightforward as people think of them her sort of launched sort of Investigation almost immediately however.

This is not broadcast material.

This is not what they call odps on demand program service a video on Demand service like Netflix and iPlayer this is a live-streamed can't actually currently doesn't fall under ofcom's regulatory and they have oversight of online material like your website and text and video so they can over see if they can make an informal a decision, but I've got no regulated power.

They can't find and I can't force them to go on and on our apology and interesting me under this regime Ofcom the BBC has to consider the matter first before Ofcom does the BBC will co-operate with any questions that often have in it and it's just making clear we have asked these questions of the BBC will not be.

Once you have the culture media and sport committee centre lots of questions to the BBC but we asked in my god what we were just talking about there was someone monitoring the live feed was it referred up in the moment when the chanting began when live stream removed and we haven't had answers to those questions now.

I think we will have to have those answers relatively quickly, so I do think there is a slight problem with government and then he's getting involved in what is the engine oil processes and decision-making of the BBC in such a minute detail while speaking about the government let's consider.

What culture sector Lisa Nandy has said rossmann from the Sunday Times I'm sure you saw this at least he said when there's one editorial failure.

It's something that must be gripped when there are several it becomes a problem of leadership.

What did you make that now having want to be Tim Davie this week, and yes, she's obviously haven't you know I have heard from government sources and from BBC sources that.

Not necessarily fans of each other network of the other BBC maths today and I completely understand why and the concepts of this it it feels a catastrophic error and obviously you know it is it's a very difficult is going to be very difficult thing for David event this mask was very struck by that it was the first time.

I know behind the scenes.

We've had various things about as media editors both of those things about Lisa Nandy and Tim Dave in there, but I was quite struck by what she said yeah, it's much more powerful than you think and it's a usually still take more gentle approach.

Don't they and actually yeah? I mean you've had great fun and everything to her, but yes, thank you very much indeed for coming onto the program.

That's Rosamund win Media editor.

A time thanks to Chris Bennett polyp independent Media consultant and former head of standards out of now, how generous and in particular BBC cover the Israel Gaza war is a highly charged up with views across the spectrum.

What was it like to do your job when people assume you're biased because of your personal identity Tim Franks is the presenter of BBC News hour and 4 Middle East for the BBC he's also Jewish and he has a new book the lines.

We draw the journalist.

Did you and an argument about identity and which he confronts the assumptions that people make about his journalism as well as waiting on his own Jewish identity hello Tim before we talk about all that.

What is your take on what you've been hearing over the last World nearly half an hour this program before this half an hour began because just on my was just rushing into the studio and I'm an old friend outside nbhd broadcasting house and we embraced and he's a multi-award-winning is far more.

I could possibly ever be and he said, where are you rushing and I said I'm going on the media show and he said talk about what sort of work and I said yes, but I'll be coming off items on and on the Medics documentary.

He said don't do it out.

So I'm here so I said that I would come on and but I think that goes to underline.

I'm not saying on her right, but it goes to underline.

This is just so Neurotic I mean the point is look it innocence and I know that you wouldn't think that I defend the BBC I'm not here to defend the BBC but it and it's not about me as well despite the fact that people do make all sorts of assumptions about what I'm going to do but I think it goes to underlay mean as if we didn't know this that this story it's all I mean this conflict is always been one of the most difficult sensitive.

Charge stories we have to cover and the last 20 months nearly 21 months now my goodness me I mean that that's just been turbocharged and the other thing that tells is equally obvious is that what the BBC does really matters? I mean it masses in this country obviously because public broadcaster, but especially since 2013.

I've been broadcasting the world service I do understand having been a foreign correspondent for 7 years.

I do understand the buy this historical accident what we do and say and broadcast choices.

We make really really resonate around the world, so when we get things wrong and we have got things wrong.

Yeah it matters we are here.

You are here of course to talk about your book.

I'm interested as you as I thought about this interview over it made me remember when we had received and I leave the BBC gossip.

And he was talking to us very about how he was accused of lacking impartiality by certain people and also by Gardens that he knew who he said to him criticise the BBC to him for its coverage.

You're coming it from her in a way as similar a similar perspective.

What was the reaction when you were appointed as Middle East correspondent and how do you navigate these? Well? I mean completely predictably and it does seem incredibly solid cystic and self-referential to talk about these things.

Hope it's a source of useful way into just thinking about the issues about how we think about identity how we think about the business of journalism, but you no listen before I was appointed people were saying over he's only been appointed because you know as I mean literally the Israeli Prime Minister strong arm of the director-general or

Appointed because thank goodness the BBC is finally acknowledged the fact that they are hope2sleep anti-israel in their in their bias, and I mean I the particles to that I responded to it by deflecting actually to be honest initially and that's the stolen the revelation that is coming out of this book which is the to me actually a lot of War fuels my Jewish I can see fuels by journalism and vice versa but you know I took that nostrum that we all hold dear that when we walk through the swing doors at new broadcasting house.

We leave our personal qualities at the door.

You know we come we come through just sort of dialysis and and and and denuded now particularly now say really is that possible is it realistic that a journalist personal identity never impact on their and that and that is.

Is the people wear assuming the because I am Jewish I'm either going to tell the balance for good or for real ordered simply physically impossible without some sort of amazing bit of quantum next to me to occupy simultaneous states of jewishness and and journalists they decided what sort of job.

I was going to do and in deemed you know in the year since when I when people have written name and criticise what I've done and they may well.

Have you know and making good points but what they do is say you're only doing this because it's clear that you're a self hating Jew rules clearly or an Islamic oval or whatever it is.

I guess my point my point is in the always made two people is the 88 my job unbelievably seriously I'm totally adley Fundamentalist about the fact that.

We have a we have an important job to do to try and clear through the thickets and you know it for us in any way to to to try and think that somehow we're gonna sort of bring our own brilliant slant in order to correct some overweening bias that we've decided exist.

I mean it.

It's it's simply dishonest to believe in that way the time you'll be aware and we've had any number of guests over the years on the media show from people who come on and say impartiality is a we understand the goal and aspiration, but it's hopelessly naive that it just simply isn't possible to do what the BBC and other organisations who have codes of impartiality trying to do and not only is it not possible is bad.

Not even helpful for individuals to leave their identity behind as they walking through the door you but what do you do if I was there? I'd

I mean, it's you know this idea that because I'm because I'm Jewish that I must think in a certain way about the conflict must think in a certain way about the BBC to me that is an atom actually I mean maybe I'm being hooker sleep.

I leave after 35 years of being received, but I just impossible to use is utterly at the in what we do and it's you know that I mean simile.

It's not to say that we will you know if we get it in the neck from both sides and we'll probably getting it.

Just about right.

That's obviously and it's also true that there will be some things which we are getting hopelessly wrong now which maybe will any come to realise that in the years to come to the point is that we strive for it and we question as the whole time.

They're very much indeed for coming to speak to us.

I'm glad you did come despite the advice that you were given by your

Tim's new book is the lines we draw the journalist the Jew and an argument about identity to Frank's.

Thank you very much, Now Formula One is having a moment the Brad Pitt movie is out survivors bought millions and you found into the sport and this weekend the British Grand Prix marks 75 years of the Formula 1 World Championship but the first 30 years of that history are not as well as you might think 1950 to 1980 are missing from official archives now Steve Rider support for the BBC and ITV for many years include ITV's Formula One coverage his leading a project to uncover and restore that footage and will hear from Steve at the moment.

I'm Formula 1 journalist Rebecca Clancy they're both here to look at the current Media strategy welcome to you both.

Thank you very much and thank you.

Thanks for that weekend is British Grand Prix this weekend for audience that aren't huge fans of the sport.

Can you set the scene how big is Formula 1 right now? What does the Grand Prix represent in terms of global stability for the sport Formula One is as big as it has ever been and you cannot overstate the importance of the British Grand Prix within the nail 24 calendar is probably one of the most important on the calendar purely because the British Grand Prix at Silverstone was where the modern-day Formula One as We Know It Now founded in 1950 the first ever race neighbours country is a paid on the calendar every single year for the last 75 years.

It is one of the best attended and of the season.

They're expecting me half a million fans through the this weekend in fact.

It's so important Stefano domenicali the Formula 1 chief executive he's currently at Downing Street's with the prime minister at talking about the importance of Formula One to the British economy.

Estimated worth about 12 billion, so it's incredibly incredibly important for the support you've got Cadillac an American brand coming in next season, but they will have a huge base here in the UK which means nine of the 11 teams will be based or have a major operation of Base in the UK it is just an enormous enormous weekend and before we speak to Steve about his project and recover all this lost material.

How would you describe formula one's Media strategy right now we can see the Prime Minister as part of that but more widely.

How would you characterise it? It's been it's been a Rollercoaster let's say since Liberty media as the name suggests and media company they took over the sport at the start of 2017 Formula 1 certainly develop the sport into as we know it now.

He wasn't a big fan of social media.

Let's say he didn't exactly embrace it all.

We had were the app.

Great like Steve Rider telling us what was going on at the track.

I certainly grew up watching you Steve and that was any information you could really get you weren't allowed to film within the circuits the paddock you can track action already got was shown on the TV but Liberty Media came in and almost instantly said to the teams in the driver's you can do it like on social media and we have seen development and the growth and the Followers that they have been able to Groves in that has happened.

They can film whatever they like I have to save for the more traditional broadcast at more traditional jealous like myself and we can't actually still feel anything because you have the Lights of Skye who have the right here in the UK they pay north of 100 million a year so I should probably imagine.

They want to protect what they showing in the exclusive footage.

I'm just going to jump in there.

Just on his apologies.

Just a little short on time, but the sky is Gathering all that material.

I'm sure it has plans to distort.

It'll be a reference it as it continues to cover.

What you're focused on is the fact that the surprise of some people the footage from the early years of Formula One has not been looked after quite a thoroughly as you might expect.

What is been looked after if it's just not been access the situation that we had when Bernie Ecclestone took over in 1981 key rule the television side of the operation with an absolute.

I am frightened off a lot of people like the BBC and ITV and the major broadcasters in saltwell.

He must we assume own everything from 1950 onwards that wasn't the case as a result a lot of the material was not accessed the broadcaster didn't have the confidence to find Bernie if there was any rights issues involved and as a result 30 material wonderful material documentary making from the main BBC strands and manufacturers like brm.

And Castrol and chill activates the

They had so what we have tried to do is get as much of that material into one place as possible clear the ownerships clear the rights and make it available to documentary makers Fastrac have your approaches been welcomed within the within the sport.

Yes within Formula One management.

I think we're regarding with little bit of a huge body of material is now almost complete and the great news from the BBC and other rights holders is the estimation of the value of that material.

Is is in the region of 25 to 13 would be great to bring that that's content back into the support worker would be alright for example with the original Formula 1 team 86032 feel that they shut down the years is now being digitized very exciting project and I think it's the next part of The Jigsaw after drive to survive and everything else ok Steve thank you very much indeed Rebecca just under 30.

We've got you think Television or social media matters more to Formula 1 zonas.

I think TV makes a lot more money, but I think they can see the audience that sounds target the younger audiences on social media very very interesting.

Thank you very much indeed to both of you.

That's Rebecca Clancy Formula 1 journalist, she's at Silverstone as indeed are a huge amount of people from the media and how many people are there in the thousands and thanks also to Steve Rider sports broadcaster, and we won't know we won't know that you don't need to talk that is all we have time for this week sadly, but thank you all so much for your company into all I guess thank you goodbye by hello.

It's Lucy Worsley here at the back with a brand new series of ladies swindlers following in the footsteps of some all new criminals.

The other end of Baker Street please, thank you.

This is a story of working-class women trying to get viruses survival lady swindlers season 2 with Lucy Worsley from BBC Radio 4 listen now BBC sounds.