Read this: YouTube media coverage of Epping migrant hotel protests, Catholic influencers, Claims journalists in Gaza face starvatio

Social media investigations correspondent in my podcast I've been investigating what happened to the daughter of a conspiracy theorist who died projected chemotherapy the new series of Mariana in conspiracy land listen on BBC sounds music Radio podcasts on the razzle hello, this is the media show from BBC Radio 4 hello and welcome on this week's program broadcasting regulator Ofcom and why it says likes of BBC and ITV at risk of becoming an endangered species of Vatican is hosting a gathering of influences, we're going to hear that will work and international news age.

Afp will join us after it and its reporters in Gaza are at risk of starvation going to start though with the protest outside the Bell Hotel in Epping in Essex if you've not seen the story the hotel is used to house migrants and demonstrators gathered their following the alleged sexual assault of a schoolgirl by an asylum seeker staying at the hotel.

He denied the charges.

We want to look at how this has been covered traditional news organisations were there the Telegraph sky BBC and others but they were also lots of individuals either broadcast online or posting updates on social media in some cases reaching very large audiences and one of them is Wesley winter a YouTuber who calls himself a guy with a camera from England documenting the reality of life here's a clip of his coverage of the protests.

And I should be there should be living in Wesley's how long you got more than 750000 views.

I'm delighted to say that you're here with me and just explain first.

What was going on there? What were you seeing in recording for having me but when I was there started off as a peaceful protest concerned locals in the area coming out.

Obviously what happened in the local area.

Obviously the police are doing with it, but the main message was that they wanted a hotel close down with it took a turn for the worst about half an hour in when a counter protesters arrived.

They didn't appreciate that.

They were there obviously because of the banners and the message behind it they for

Sympathising with the attacker to the local go in the area, so they went to happy and I think first and foremost want them to be together or not.

So I didn't want to be together to keep them separate is what they then what you were recording.

There was a protest.

I think getting on top of a police van as the does that damage does demonstrations developed and against the police because the police have brought them to the protest many locals thought that in protecting them although encouraging them to come and against the police as you sorted the footage.

I want to get to know you a bit better and lots of people listening my well know all about your videos lots of people listening won't some of your saying like on the riots in Middlesbrough last summer has gained more than 4 million views on YouTube so very popular as roughly the same number of people that tune into the 6:00 news live on the BBC

You have to say the figures accounted in very different ways, but how do you decide which stories to cover and are you? Are you thinking about collect at all or that is that not first and foremost in your mind and foremost thing that I do care about is the things I suppose he care about so issues that are affecting the nation obviously at the time it is in line with the Southport incident and it was just a topic that you cared about me personally having covered a few protest before the Middlesbrough event and heard from concerned British citizens about how they feeling and it came true for 5 days later when we had the Southport incident so after that I can have went down the Rabbit Hole to find out how British people are feeling in general and how are you getting information about wear something happened plugged into various groups and also just online as well, so I will Mix and so you covered, Southport

The Epping Forest protest and obviously you're not supported or back biological organisation like the BBC I know when I've been sent to protest.

Yeah.

There's a lot of conversations that are you might take security? How do you make sure that you stay safe you you just go on your own.

Are you obviously because of security around it.

Is that you do have the police so that's if I was actually by myself and there was no please that would be a complete different story I have imagine and so thanks for the police.

Are there if anything happens as seen in the videos.

They're not always there to to win things do get heated sample I went to Paris not too long ago and another thing is getting toned but unaware helmet and stuff like that EG where's that time as a one-off.

I know it's going to be more heated sometimes.

You can't really prepare for that but and it's interesting watching it because you do obviously go for very low key care to just got a little backpack in the one I saw.

Tiny fluffy mic that you're going to holding out you carrying a GoPro camera filming yourself like a GoPro camera and just like a small Mike I think that's why the videos work because it's not that basis.

So you know it's not like you have a massive camera and have 100 feels a bit under pressure to speak to you because of how professional it looks so mine's a bit more like natural so I think that's why there's a bit speaking to the general public and do you think that you that that that that that appeal as you said for the general public do you think that that is an appeal that a journalist from people now term Legacy Media or mainstream Media that they wouldn't have that appeal if they're carrying a large camera or if they say hello.

I'm from the Telegraph all the times all of stickman idea about mainstream.

Media Legacy Media in general.

Maybe there's a lack of trust wise but I'm coming in.

I'm just an ordinary guy so I think there's more open that.

Things won't get in a baby manipulated.

I won't be just like a a 10-second clip in there no from the content and have watched.

It will be very in-depth.

Yes, cos that's something I face in the in the past these sorts of issues for Newsnight is that there's a sense of people they say but you're going to do an interview with me and then you're running a run 10 or 20 seconds of it that might not be true, but that's the perception.

Where is you're able to run running a video you might run.

Would you rather all of what people say would you edit them of course? I tried to keep it as fair and true to what happened as possible.

Obviously as much as in a opening an hour.

I mean if I had the full foot is it might be 2-hours right and then that might be too long.

So I think there's less red tape around what I do in comparison to Legacy Media think both have pros and cons and I think to buy each kilometre complement one another and just paint a picture of me if you will on why you think people are suspicious of mainstream, Media

As you said the same thing is that is that the main reason or what what your sense of it from people they don't believe the headlines.

I think I think look like you said maybe is a 20-second fit maybe just a minute but I think that time constraint possibly could lead to white people don't always believe what they see they Won't Like A more in-depth.

Review point is not so much that the medial I just want more clarity to what they're the hearing aid do they want more their view they wanted to be more partisan.

I don't care what they want to hear me as a journalist as you guys know you have to say it how it is not stem away from the truth.

I think that's what they want this one if maybe a deeper dive.

That's why it is sometimes when you see reporters are working for the news that have like a funny voice and then speakers that way they might wear certain clothes and that might just put people off in general and so do you think

You just said it.

Do you see yourself as a journalist because we've been speaking to other journalist who would turn what you do activism is that fair.

I don't have a political stance whenever I do my video so when someone with just jealous.

I didn't go to make a journalism school.

I didn't do a course.

It's more just lots and lots of citizen journalism, but I wasn't really aware of that now to me.

I don't really put too much for label on it and people want to call it that that's perfectly fine and the issue is whether you think you have an agenda out your video from Epping it's called Epping erupt.

Why this migrant hotel is ruining Essex so from that.

You know people might say it looks like you are getting a position.

There's no you know quote marks around running Essex or any particular gender.

Obviously you know with YouTube and content people will I hear that sometimes sometimes it is clickbait.

Same with a newspaper headline.

You need people to look at it, but then when you watch it.

Does it match the title.

It is really important.

It's not so much yet.

Haven't we are absolutely delighted.

You're here right now.

I want to say we approach many of the country's biggest news organisations to ask them how they were covering the story to come on this program with you live with your life is your hair all of them.

They're coming.

Do you get recognised because your videos have been so popular in the last year or so is that also is beneficial because that makes people more open to speak to me.

Why some people might know that is going to go online to the doughnut or so kind of works both ways, but yeah, I'm starting to you.

Do you think they're being on their side? That's why they speak to you or they more speak to you because they see you as a fair operate.

I think as a ferret operator set time and time again.

I don't have a piss.

And I don't really put it in my videos regardless because I think the Video speak for themselves sometimes it could be more left-leaning just because the people that would have one more left it somehow they might be more right but at the same time.

I'm just a picture of who was there and what happened and help us understand the process.

Are you at the protest them in the video earlier and you're there for a good while I don't know that you must have been there for hours at the end of that you just instantly go right.

I've got to get editing as soon as I can wherever I can do it.

How long will it take you to turn everything that you've collected into something that's on YouTube yes, that's the thing with what I do.

I'm a man band.

I feel I had it so what happened with that video I was up for at least 20 hours and get it out as soon as possible because as much as it is just a YouTube video is also topical in the news so I had to get it out pretty quick so I think I've got it out.

Just over a day later or day or two later.

Yeah, he was alluding to the have been some reports of course you'll be aware of them.

There was hostility.

Some people who are at those protest who are from the mainstream press for example.

This is there was a video footage that was circulated widely footage filmed by the BBC of a photojournalist who was claiming he's working for the Telegraph and he was driven out by protesters escorted away by police the Telegraph say he wasn't working for them.

This is some of that video.

I think they're saying and what do you make that does that surprise you the crowd would like that on someone associated with the mainstream press first and foremost.

They shouldn't I think people want to talk? They can talk where they trust what's going to put out is on them, but I think in general people should be respectful.

That's happened to me as well.

Just told me to get out and I'm trying to film and speak to people so yeah, it's not good to see that happen, but in general.

I think the idea is that people?

Want to make sure the truth is put out and they don't be labelled as a certain words.

They just want the main message to get put out which was and still is to protect the children in the area and loaded several times of the fact that one of the things that you think makes your videos popular and most people respect you is that your own man? You're a one-man band use your phrase your you doing this reporting on your only not the big organisation.

Do you think that if you were part of the big organisation which would open up more resources to you, but do you think that would undercut the the reason that people like watching thought about this myself.

Obviously I haven't been offered to do that yeah, but I just thought I'd maybe jumping the queue other journalist, who might be working in those organisations.

I wouldn't want to do that kind of like jumping on the way back to the lack of trust potentially but if I was like a freelancer might be different who knows and finally we often talk about business models on the

Show and try and explore how different people are making money from the media.

They make do you make money from adverts payroll adverts on YouTube and similars and as a newspaper would get revenue from the avenues does advocating a video and so those ads and revenue but I came here for free so we appreciate you being with us.

Are you going back to Epping I've heard there's a meeting on Thursday with the local councils have be interesting to cover that and see what is said.

Hopefully it doesn't get as chaotic as last time because you know wants to see the violence that I could thank you very much indeed coming in and those listening if you'd like to see Wesley's video I was going to call a reporter but I think a video is either either accurate.

It's on YouTube if you put was his name Epping into the search you'll find it very easily.

Thanks for your time.

Thanks.

Thanks.

Landscape and in the middle of all that are the public service broadcasters the BBC iTV Channel 4 Channel 5 this morning but these Public Service Broadcasting at risk of becoming endangered species the morning came from the broadcasting regulator Ofcom it also out loud to plan for what to do about it.

Let's talk about this with Christina Nicola Squires Ofcom broadcasting and Media Group director Christina welcome back onto the media show before we talk about what you been saying about Public Service Broadcasting I wonder what you make it we heard from Wednesday as someone who worked in news for for many many years after 35 years did was shorthand didn't get sorted by journalist and I just think it's a really fascinating example how the world has changed isn't it? I would take slight exception to something you said.

Can you search Ofcom bears this out the trust people having news the news on the television whether it's BBC iTV or Sky or other broadcasters, they trusted much more highly than uses social media so I think your point about trusting mainstream Media Harding to measure isn't it? But the research we done it off come shows that the public service broadcast secret very high levels of trust in you although perhaps Wesley the the point is there are sections of our society who do not trust those sources of news going back to the social media creates.

I think maybe able to speak in more like tiktok clips where it is 7 seconds personally.

I wouldn't even trust myself, but what I do.

It's more in-depth and as it's done.

It was more than like an owl X 2 is more in-depth, but those clips you see what it's like 5/7 seconds.

It doesn't have any prospective so tomorrow.

I would argue that mainstream Media is more trustworthy and those situations.

Look at the success that Wesley and others are having do you think that people at the top of big news organisations need to be looking at it and thinking their lessons here we could learn or they just took white offerings offerings.

I think that I'm just kind of slightly blown away, then.

I went to a process probably like the sound recordings the cameraman myself and the reporter and you're going there on your own or they crazily actually means being delivered to get lots of video journey to go and do things on their own but I think there's a look I think it's great that people got the barriers to do and if you like it gone.

It's much is much simpler easier to go and do what you've been doing and I think there's I do think they both I think that you know kind of with discussing you can underlines the importance of our report that there are you know there are sort of outlets of journalism that are regulated to a certain level of stand.

And bananas bananas the rest and people going to make of it what they will and is it the rest that is one of the reasons that public service broadcasters are to use ofcom's phrase in danger.

Risk of being endangered.

What are the reasons for you to say something that strong? I think it's actually slightly broader than that.

We've seen this of business models change hugely.

I mean you know when I started off at Thames news.

I'm not old.

It was a l licence to print money working on ITV ITV companies famously described as if you look at business model now.

It's all on advertising revenue we seen advertising revenue now go across all sorts different platforms, so the old business model of ad funded is really risk with also seen audiences splinter when I started in Uno producing News at Ten that he wants to know when completing then but you'd hear it come out everyone.

The numbers to get a really different and so I think audiences of fragmented the business models have changed and all its babes an audience has got is great for audit is a choice than ever and that this is partly because we have a range of not just broadcasted, but a range of platforms we discussed that many many times on the media show what is ofcom's position advice for public service broadcasters about how to use those platforms we example heard about Channel 4 with this new strategy relatively recently than going for a little while putting more and more content on YouTube do you think that that's a good thing? I think you've got to make sure that the great content that we make it goes to wear audiences are and if all the answers are on YouTube or if you want to talk then.

Why would you not take it there? And I think we have seen we actually because the platforms controlled by large tech company not based in the UK

That maybe one side of it and that's why I wanted things we talking about his can we have some kind of problems for Public Service Broadcasting so that people can find it more easily but also the other thing is is that is it when you like it or not audiences are watching their TV in a different way now and all it is on YouTube dwarfing what we're doing a mainstream media television platforms and if we going to carry on making kind of you impartial Julie accurate news we're going to do wide range of programs and it's really important.

I think the for the broadcaster work with the platforms to make sure that they could really good really good meeting about 3-4 weeks ago the BBC were there as well, although the public service broadcasters and Sky and as word tiktok YouTube

Play it goes both ways.

It's good for the broadcaster to get their content website for young audiences are and it's not bad for the video sharing platforms to have great content on there.

That is regulated by calcium more broadly then we know that on from this Friday the online safety act has been in force you about the football in it in a little bit the Euro yesterday and England success there been lots of reports know about the abuse that the Lioness just Carters getting online the culture secretary Lisa Nandy has called for Ofcom use its powers under the online safety act to get tough with services like Instagram and eggs if they're too slow to act in taking abusive down, so are you going to be getting tough on that one should have to put up that horrible kind of abuse and it's been going on for years hasn't it? And it's just you must be really horrible the new online safety laws do mean that tech firms have got.

Action when their nose on his broken the law on their platforms a very very put up a legal concept that's got to come down when they are also fully enforces larger social media sites also have to give users more power to fill to stuff out.

So that they should be able to have settings to sort of filter out misogynistic.

So that's how they didn't women what does that mean? I come will be getting involved and will it be actually yeah well, we will help companies to account when investigating that one, but there's also just before your involvement is also law enforcement.

You know if illegal contents gone up the police investigations.

We had but what does holding to account look like how are you going to hold Elon Musk annexe to account we have the ability to find company and an actually very serious cases, we can actually book the content.

I'm not the expert on the media on the online safety team because that's a different department for mine, but we are dead.

Thurman to make some big strides here and and as I said the those new laws me that the company should take action if they know someone's broken the law with their content and procedures on another point something I've been reporting a lost on recently the BBC but the corporation as you know it recently pulled the documentary after failing to disclose that the child narrator was related to Hamas at the BBC did their own independent but their own investigation Peter Johnston did that and then that reported and now off and then once had reported Ofcom and it was now investigating was your assessment then and what went wrong and why Ofcom is now investigating it.

I'm not going to go into that has projects reports.

It's it's outline the things that they went wrong.

We have a system of regulation with the BBC that they will become BBC first the BBC investigates complaints first and then of context second look at it that investigation is taking place and will.

Is where's we always do and that's how long I hope ok Christine and Nicholas II Squires thank you very much for joining us well.

We've been talking about the football and if you're watching last night.

You know what a bit nerve-wracking for a while, but it worked out in the end and covering the story was BBC Sport editor Dan Rowan he's with us from Zurich I don't have you on the media show and things what going on while you're on there on the on the news at 10, but I haven't finished as you say because it has gone to extra time but of course 10:00 news on is normal as you know so it's the great challenges of covering live sports often is happening in the evenings of course UK time and right up to the wire often these fixtures specially football Week finishing just before the 10 or evening on occasions during it when it is when it gets really hairy last night.

We meet the challenges that we don't really know where exactly we're going to be broadcasting from because were the game to have finished before 10.

Pitchside and used a position there but as it became apparent that it was going to go into added time in extra time we don't have to relocate outside because we can't go live while mate.

Still playing on to the development of of nerves and tense my desk to the task, but you know we've unfortunately.

I'm very experienced team in Birmingham salah producer and it was worth a cameraman.

It was with us last night and yeah, we got the report colleague has he gone under the mat report that obviously wasn't completely because the game is ongoing but yeah, it's just one of those things you have to try navigate.

It's best you can just a practical question down you say the side ok.

We need to be outside the stadium for the game gone and a 4 time.

How are you broadcasted on my Bieber singing on the TV what technology are you using in that moment to be live with using a bit of a quick the live you which enables you to broadcast pictures live on location is very lightweight actually like a small rucksack.

So there's no need for a large satellite trackers in the park.

Obviously restricts you somewhat in terms of being able to move around at late notice so small piece of equipment that your lights obviously microphone is a 3-person team, but it wasn't until around I guess 9:50.

We made the decision to to hotfoot it outside the ground in Geneva and and getting position there, but well, what is what is what is challenging as you don't quite know what the stories going to be to have different sort of outcomes in your mind depending on what what transpires Katie here.

I have to say apologise.

I wasn't watching you live on News at Ten sorry about that, but I was aware that earlier this week you spoke to England manager and she told you in response to the racist abuse against this car that we Christina from Ofcom from she said taking the knee.

That's not enough.

We've done that for a while.

Do you think this could be a Turning Point I think there's a case like this?

Yeah, it becomes something of a challenge for the legislation which has been brought him.

What you've been discussing and indeed the regulators role in implementing that in forcing as well, but I think that there's no doubt the pressure is because of high-profile cases such as just Carter's.

I think it was in England chose.

Not to take them that was a sign of their frustration.

It doesn't seem to be much improvement.

I guess the big question could there be some kind of Boycott if things don't improve it was seeing us in the past with high-profile athletes and teams and indeed leads coming together and collaborating and coming off of social and some of the employers what we know we know that stepped away, but others moved off of social media in I think of sign is there disparity in desperation and forward it to be a morsel of organised actors that kind and that money where this is heading.

We'll have to see what transpires laughing esarn positions my understand what they want to 16 tournaments over after the weekend, Leeds

The game wide conversation about what has more can be done when I was hearing about your situation on the news at 10 last night when they were big drawers and you won't necessarily quite sure what was happening.

It was take me back to 2018 when I was live on the TV on the BBC news channel during an England men's shootout and I also had no idea.

I could hear this.

Cheers going on those thinking is it good? Is it bad when I guess he is probably what do you do when your on there and you know something's happened, but you don't know what it is structured by the time that we have before we have to hand back and so while the incident is sometimes.

You just try and find out what's happened you you're aware that you probably shouldn't do that when you're trying to honour very strict timing on news at 10.

So I think my approach these situations don't guess if you can keep an eye on her on a fees on an iPad nearby but often as a delay on that so I think it's it's brought with potential pitfalls that even if you try and maybe.

Be clever, I think the best thing is to sometimes you say that was clearly some dramas going on behind me we'll have to see what transfer as I was aware that there are still a few minutes before the penalties for England they came up that late with general good advice for journalist.

Don't get seems like a good place to start Dan thank you very much indeed Accord dance going to be part of the BBC News team who are covering the final when it and in a few days time and there's more coverage of the issues that we were discussing their with reference to Jest karta both on the BBC News website and the BBC Sport website now.

We're going to turn to a state that the international news agency afp is put out in the last 48 hours because it's issued an urgent warning about the conditions faced by its freelancers in Gaza and it says it's working to evacuate them and their families one un world food programme official says the hunger crisis in Gaza is reaching new and astonishing levels of desperation.

What is global news director of fp&a join us hello Phil hi? Thank you for coming on the media show it's a very important subject afp.

Evacu8 staff journalist and their families from Gaza in 2024 so I guess a question for us here on the media.

Show is who are you currently working with in the Gaza strip at the moment is about 10 strong and it's a mix of trusted people that we worked with before so people be working for FP before we evaluated our staff and also the journalist that we know that our team has known so we had to kind of reconstitute and you team once we we took her stuff out earlier this year.

What are you hearing from them and about them about the conditions in Gaza

Well, obviously we been in touch with our team nonstop by the last month at the situation has deteriorated.

We are aware of the the daily struggles and the difficulty in finding food doing their job and it just seems that something crack to this week with some of our staff where literally they came to us and said we are so weak.

We're so tired when dealing with a kind of non-stop DJ non-stop headache the complexity of trying to find food not only for ourselves, but also for our extended family and so they sort of picture of desperation pain from several members that really sounded a wider alarm for us.

How do you how are you as afp reacting to that? How can you react to that just to confirm that the staff for freelancers? I know it doesn't make any difference in terms of the conditions there in but these are all freelancers who work for us, but obviously we take care.

We take more responsibility you know.

State what if we can you not trying to get the more money which helps them to literally by extremely expensive Foods on the black market wish she holds them to leave from day today little we can do we need governments to pressure and stepping and be to create that movement in Gaza we can send journalists in foreign journalist Johnson outside Gaza and those who been there for your months and months away is 7 years now on in covering this story can also get out and can you get access to the basics and food and whatever they need Phil it's Ross here afp.

Will have channels of communication with which will be using all of the time as you go about your reporting of this conflict.

Do you need separate channels of communication to make your case to try and get these people out?

And do you have those channels of communication? What happened in the past us when news organisations such as such as the BBC and someone managed to get out of Kaza you really need an estate support from outside.

Obviously we were talking non-stop to the israelis to try to present list of the people would like to take out but it was important to have a state-sponsored from outside and coming from outside the Qatari government was very helpful with a lot of news organisations last year the French government also has been it's been helping so we need those two things together.

Why you you love me about the Israeli government and have some kind of states onto outside and to what degree Phil have the journalist that you work within been able to do their journalism in recent months.

It's become extremely hard Ross I mean I think one thing we have to remember with these journalists in Gaza is.

Foreign Correspondents where you go into a city and you can dedicate your work everyday 24-hours a day to the job in hand these people have families somebody's people have families of 10:15 strong.

They may be the only breadwinner their spending a lot of time.

You know trying to source food for their family for their children.

They also trying to sort perhaps medication for elderly parents or false negatives of the amount of time.

They can focus just on on trying to news Gathering is also limited by the amount of time.

They have to spend in literally trying to stay alive trying to sort basics for their family, so it's holding those two things together trying to do your work at the same time also trying to to manage your family situation which is so hard and a parcel that were clearly must be to be able to report on Hamas we receive every few interviews with Hamas themselves, how is it been for your journalist trying to get those interviews on?

Able to get them.

It's really hard and especially as the situation has changed over time.

It's one thing being able to get interviews with people in whatever called broadly Bahamas controlled administration.

So that would be people working inside the health ministry, which is under the control of us and it's another trying to actually get your interviews with a mass leaders or or or senior people with a hammer switches which is hard that has mainly been through through Direct statements or through direct messages and someone but it is hard to have that dial Direct contact and it's were saying we have approached Israel's government for a response there, please comment but we haven't heard back.

Thank you so much Phil Chapman for coming on the programme that now to Rome and Vatican wear a conference for Catholic influences priests nuns and lay content creators is about to start the papacy has a history.

Leaning into new technology to get the message out.

This is a recording of Pope Leo from 1903 a little crackly, but there is a landmark moment is Leah the 13th became the first pope to be captured on audio broadcast by Baskin radio with begin in 1931 and we can talk to Dr Justin tackett the philosopher and North Carolina State University and to marry either on the founder of Carlo acutis, Ireland and organisation will learn about in a moment and also somebody we could call a Catholic influencer.

Thank you very much indeed for joining us festival help us understand this organisation that you founded and what kind of media content you produce absolutely.

Thank you so much for having me I suppose Carlo acutis would be.

Digital digital influence the Catholic saint of the internet and I suppose were very much inspired by his story and how to achieve and very organised through their original selves and people full of joy and I suppose because of his link with the digital and internet sites.

We thought it was very fitting to try and catch up and have a digital presence online so I supposed to be trying and Compass as much as we can his missus is a 4 carat of being a young person full of joy and being his original self and we try to you know bring that to people through positive and uplifting free social media passwords, and I described using influencer is that is that a description that you would accept absolutely off.

It's not something really we had it.

Both myself and my brother when we meet me you know you're very much captivated with his his story and we wanted to just get out there as much as possible and strategies manage different people and social media wasn't really something we initially bottle but you know we're going to go down this path more and more we decided it would be a great way to get out there and and just tell me about because I'm sure you understand of young person sometimes when you look at your phone.

You know there's so much negative news that there could read and sometimes all you need is just a little bit of positivity a little bit of Hulk and something different to get you think it's already been noted because I know you're going to rain for this gathering of Catholic influences say whether st.

Mary if I do want to bring in Dr Justin take it from North Carolina State University taggert.

Just just give us some context here this this later celebrate.

Embracing influences as part of the church is media ecosystem.

Is that a genuine shift? Is it a rebranding of older strategies like the recording? We just heard yes, thank you.

Fascinating to be here and isn't that recording just spectacular that we have something like like that.

So I think it's a both and situation perhaps a rebranding in the sense that it's an updating.

Let's say of the lexicon.

So we might think of saints themselves that Mary for has brought up as the original influenceurs in the Catholic church and in fact in the programme for the Jubilee that's about to take place the church itself refers to Mary as gods in some way, it's it's a an updating of what's always been happening, but it also marks a shift.

I think in the sense that ever since at least.

I can two in the 1960s the church has been interested in humanism that is talking to other denominations as well as other Faith's including Judaism and Islam to do that it is embracing a full range of Media technology and that Marks and a circle shift and decentralised content creation.

Are they trying to sort of thing that with a need for theological consistency if you like has been attention since the beginning.

It's a 2000 year-old institution of the church of course is known for being highly centralised in folks like the Pope the College of Cardinals the Vatican etc, but it also wants to be a truly that is one universal Catholic Church has always been had a control that narrative and one of the ways that the Vatican has recently done that.

Official documents so there was one issued and social media the use of social media in 2023 and just in January there was a document called antique which is the older new which is the churches most consulate document on a I so it is absolutely trying to think through the theology as we go along.

Thank you very much indeed Justin and just before you wrap up the program Mary if you're going to be going to Rome I'm curious.

Have you ever been to a gathering of Catholic influences before I have not really excited I suppose by big is for unity Yvonne Catholic influences.

I said because you know sometimes you fall into the social media and trying to get it normally unity isn't a word that we associate with the social media experience you don't think you're being a stick there are usually in blood of you know competition 1908.

Your fellow like followers and you're trying to get his money like you know but I suppose as Christians are big you getting out there and community and you know connecting with one another hearing what he is doing and a boat trying kids to support one another because if you don't have that as a foundation, you know the whole mess well very good luck with that with that Mary either on good luck with the unity and thank you to you for coming on the program and also thank you to Dr Justin tacket to be interested in whether she on like almost everyone else will find Unity in the online experience ok.

That's it for this edition of the media show thanks for love.

I guess thanks to all of you for listening at will be back with you soon.

Bye.

Bye.

Hi, I'm Marianna spring and social media investigations correspondence this time on Marianna in conspiracy onto the BBC Radio 4.

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