Read this: Christiane Amanpour, Dead Internet Theory, Food journalism

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It's the podcast the lives and livelihoods some of the world's richest people but this time there's a twist and we are looking back on the lives of some Titans of Us industry by the first ever billionaire John D Rockefeller the founder of the Ford Motor Company Henry Ford and the first lady of Wall Street and Simon I asking you if they were good bad or just another billionaire.

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts, this is the media show from BBC Radio 4 hello and welcome now ok, she's not with us for this edition, so it's me and I guess with you for the next 45 minutes this week on the programme we going to learn about dead internet theory and the is it raises about the age of AI CNN christiane amanpour will join us to discuss her career and the food and cooking editor of The New York Times is going to explain why recipes and restaurant critics so important to some news organisations and before we get going I should mention we recorded this program a little in advance.

So we're not live now as you will know the internet has revolutionised how we live and part of that has been a radical change in how media content is created and distributed and

AI is bringing another Revolution which again will change how we live and how media content is created and distributed this brings with it any number of fundamental including what kind of information world we will soon be living in might be soon be overwhelmed with ai-generated low-grade inflammation or slop as it's often refer to these questions connect to something called the Dead internet theory and I'm going to get some help explaining that with annexe AI writer at The Economist thanks, but let's start at the beginning.

What is the Dead internet Theory Theory was actually my idea before It's Time although we now I think of it in this context it dates back 400 years ago to a period when social media was over a really buy a eyeballs but by people behaving like AI this was the peak.

Twitter algorithmic timeline error Instagram moved away from friends and what people noticed is that the viral post that were bubbling up in the air were all the same you get sometimes literally the same relatable content being retweeted 100000 x teams on Monday and then rephrase posted by different account again by single these slim vacuous got bits of information would be interested again and again and again and is his dad.

It's just you and a timeline that is populated by artificial Creations bots that just exists to post the same 45 concept over again, which sounds a little bit like a conspiracy theory and at the time.

It was it was sort of depending on how you spoke to write.

How seriously they took it either a bonafide a conspiracy theory or

Way of referring to the ability of algorithmic timelines to encourage people to act like machines to post off at the album rewards and repeat that do not think of themselves as real people with real opinions, but just doing whatever the algorithm rewards and that's become more and more relevant presumably because now AI is generated content appearing on our timelines and elsewhere exactly what happened is at the time dead internet Theory was joking.

Obviously the internet was not actually populated by boxes populated by people who is on the left true social networks and cut out the Middleman right rather than an algorithm rewarding you for posting content that the other of them think should be spread to the masses Britain create the content of the post today and humans don't need to be in the loop anymore, but they are in the loop because millions and millions of people are generating content and are putting it online so how can we measure?

What proportion of the information all around us is generated automatically in some way Vs something that you me or anyone else might put online different ways the different parts of the internet AI content is having a fact that some of them.

It's very obvious right so on Facebook meta allows you to generate content using metasone generation dolls images and text are badgers it that way you can go on Facebook or Instagram and you can see the content that was generated by metal tools labelled the content that was generated by other sites that have a labelling process that let's them hide in the metadata of an image of a door that is created to stamp saying this was made by AI that gets flagged as well and you can turn it up and you can see that tells me large for of content that goes viral.

That is generated Maybe by humans, but using our tools and there's this word or phrase slot that comes up a lot to describe low-grade inflammation.

Some people might say what is it automatically the case the information generated by AI is low grade and information generated by humans is better.

I think right now even I someone who sees someone was cutting Edge AI tools out there on a daily basis.

I be hard-pressed to defend the claim that ai-generated content is as good as human generated content the systems are not there yet.

What a generator content can be is compelling right particularly for visual platform, so Instagram and tiktok.

It's very possible to generate AI imagery is on a very got level compelling to watch because it is impossible.

It is a phrase taken from biology hyper normal stimulus.

It does sexy people are sexier than he can be the disgusting content is more disgusting than the real world can generate it looks weird and it captures your eyes and attention in a way that Amir film version of a world find it quite hard.

And we ask you to come in and talk about this because we had noticed a number of people referencing dead internet theory and the fact that it is cropping up more and more it's been more.

What does that tell us about anxieties that are out there about the future of the online world.

I think it tells us something.

I've been worried about since the very first day when I started Harrington deepfake.

Do the rounds right which is that a a generation of of content is only half the problem the other half the problem is once people are aware that content can be generated by AI they see it everywhere you make typo or an error of fact in a written article and people will instantly assume that it's entirely ai-generated.

There is any item is a human could meet our entire relationship with information exactly grades the trust it degrades relationship with information and it leads to actually the same sort of conspiratorial toy.

That let the college dead internet Theory in the first place right a belief that there's not actually humans posting this stuff anymore that newsrooms are empty and filled with just machines turning out.

Copy that there's no offers on the ground in war zones.

It's just people typing prompting generating fake imagery from The Economist stay with us.

Let's talk about one aspect of this AI Revolution that we done before on the media show it's that more and more news is going to be written by AI rather than by journalists and that raises big questions about the information that AI is using to generate news content the news guard is a company that tracks miss information and it's found a Russian network called Prada is creating news websites to influence the answers of AI chatbots one of the authors of the report that looks at this is he said blanches who's with us now.

Is it? Thank you for your time? Let's start with the price of the network.

Just help us understand.

Is absolutely is so the problem network is a network of many sites with many domains there about 150 that we know of February 2024 and it's links to Russian actors is owned by an IT company which is based in premier, but it doesn't really reveal who owns the old and Howard emerged all excited kind of look the same and basically what it's doing is that it's repurposing Russian propaganda Russian false narratives that have a telegram or Russian state media and publishing them too many many articles on many of these domains and it's completely it still trading data of Lords mobile tomorrow's so at the end ah appeso repeating all these Russian false claims that have been filtered out improper sites, but there might be some people listening.

Doesn't the a I have the ability to judge the merits of One news website vs.

Another what you would assume, so but not all the time and the problem is that then if you know all the AI companies were to filter out all these product means because now they know they're not credible and it seems like that has certainly happening because we actually didn't update over report me and let's chat boxes are actually saying provident however products are not the origin of the false claims there.

Just wondering that so even if a chat back out problems elsewhere online so it's hard to find the credibility the source and there's new sides and new pornatar Tactics popping up everyday keep track and if I were to go to one of these sites.

What would I see you would see a new site however you.

It's not very reader friendly.

There's not always a search bar.

There's a lot of contents there spelling mistakes and you would see that there are a lot a lot are turning out articles every few minutes and actually American sunlight project which is a non-profit that also works on these topics to estimate the number of provident network was 20 out and it's it was 3.6 million articles in 2024 and they saying we agree that it's surely an underestimate the scale of is huge.

I know there's a phrase that comes up when considering what's being done here which is LM grooming for people who have not heard this phrase and I'm imagining it's most people listening heard it for the first time Aaliyah just explain what that is so basically is manipulating the training data of large tomatoes.

Manipulating with aniline and ends with a perspective viewpoint and in a case relieving out here false information that is targeted to specific countries specific populations in our case with the provident network.

It's a lot of 13 Western actors that are supporting Ukraine in the context of the Russian and so really yes trying to push forward one singular perspective and documenting the fact that this is happened or is happening easiest what are usage could be done about this to help everyone listening now and everyone else you might be trying to access information through chatbot.

Who are getting information that is being pushed through them by these types of websites.

Can we spot that's happening.

I think it's always a question of verifying the information and The Source I think chatbots can misrepresent what a source is saying.

Send my not understand if it's source is credible, so there is a two-way verification process and it's about cross-checking the information on different news sites and always always been sceptical and critical what you see in a response.

Is it badges from use god? Thank you very much indeed an extra.

The Economist was listening to that does that surprise you when you hear out the scale of being generated in those ways.

I mean honestly 3.6 million articles here is mind-boggling large, but it makes sense the thing about large language models is they as an input the entire internet and so if you want to have your viewpoint drown out correct was the only real way of doing it is to win on scale to write more tokens write more text communicate your viewpoint than there is in the rest of the training data to giving everything that you sis and Alex have told us one question follows do we perhaps need to preserve a copy of the internet?

AI or in the case of news coverage, do I need to capture a version of how the world has reported before a I played a role and it says that something that anyone would want to take on its undertaking it is I mean it's definitely something that someone wants to take on because even the AI companies themselves acknowledge this as a problem if you're trying to build the latest version of Chucky BT do it by take dumper been tyre internet and in non-technical terms right through a big bucket and stir it until it learns to do PhD Level Maths that only works if you've got a virgin internet, but doesn't have this content is generated with no eye for quality or accuracy and the way to do that is to find a version of the internet that existed before church apt.

That's keep exploring this with another person who's going to join my Graham is from the internet archive it's a non-profit.

That was set up in 1996 hits archive over 800 billion web pages, but I'm imagining Mark and we appreciate you joining us.

AI is changing the very nature of your work before you tell us how the people who don't know the internet archive just give us an introduction to its core purpose the internet archive is a 28-year old non-profit research library dedicated ambition of universal access to all knowledge.

We do that in a variety of ways including archiving much of the public internet in fact.

I this October we're going to be an Elsa having a archived more than 1 trillion webpages and into the web we digitise and preserve and make available material from around about the media box of CD's microfiche microfilm.

Etc is an enormous undertaking and you are behind the wayback machine with some of our listeners.

May have used access internet pages from time's gone by but let's cut to the question that we be

Within the last few minutes, how is artificial intelligence changing how you view the challenge of archiving in a variety of ways.

I think I'm in some ways the wayback machine.

Envy Archives of the web that we have the Prix de the advent of open AI GPT are available to us in a I can can help us access that passed it can help us identify and present material from the pre AI error.

You know one of the challenges here is that material from the public is is generally rights and can we have the internet archive do not make the the history of the web available today.

I colors there are PB immature whoever that at this time.

We do make available including for example material published by the US government and other governments around the world.

I wonder you mentioned chatbots.

Are you trying to archive how chatbots are responding to all of our questions well, so we work to archive as much of the material is publicly available on the internet especially of the weather's possible and certainly the interactions that people are having with these systems is something that we do want to be able to record and to preserve in the making we can't do that for the conversations that people are having but we are exploring the general challenge of what do they I say and when do they say that because if you asking a a question? What's a about it? You know something from the news or maybe one of those articles that was part of a problem network and Miss information this information is important to be able to understand you record and make available for a future what the aye-ayes.

I think what they're saying about the news of the day and this.

Information that may be propagated through the various networks Mark appreciated.

Thank you very much.

That's Mike Graham from the internet archive thanks.

Also to eat his branches from newsguard.

Alex her briefly your from The Economist remember when I first heard about the internet archive this is a few years back some people saw, it is a slightly eccentric pursued that this wasn't sorry but actually the idea that the internet will be online forever.

We will come to understand.

That's not necessarily the case absolutely I mean the terrifying thing is we even had Concepts like lyncroft exist long enough that articles.

I wrote about link as a working journalist.

No longer work because I think the link has rotted I can't find some of my earliest stories that I wrote about the internet decaying away because they took it away.

It was a problem that we could see coming and yet.

It's only through the work about looks like the internet archive a huge quantity of the weather still available.

Thank you very much for coming in that Alexa is an AI writer at The Economist now.

If you are a regular listener to the media show your know that we frequently explore the many pressures on organisations from evolving business models to artificial intelligence to cover in Conflict such as Ukraine and Gaza to the current President of America in his approach to the media and our next guest knows the news business and depressions on it as well as anyone christiane amanpour is CNN chief international anchor and host of amanpour on CNN and PBS is covered every major conflict since the first Gulf War she's going to be president prime minister's and Pope's and is one of the best-known journalist covering international news report welcome to the media show thank you.

That's very good to be here with you, but I wondered if I could start by taking you write back to the beginning of your time at CNN because I wonder what your memories are of the

Mediaworld into which you were stepping I have very very vivid memories and Memories that are just fantastic memories to be honest with you.

I call it a Golden Age maybe everybody called the Golden Age but it really wanna come for me wrong with it been Revolution the Islamic revolution in my home country.

I went to university study journalism wants to be a foreign correspondent based on what I did with the upheaval that happened there during the Revolution what I meant to me what I meant my family what I meant the country and close to the world so I did my degree in the United States and then being a foreigner with a foreign accent and not looking the part as you know I was the blonde blue-eyed midwestern looking woman girl.

I couldn't get a job easily in the traditional way and us which is the bottom they call it small market the middle market if you're lucky to big market events for the National there was this thing called CNN which has just started and today you would call.

Revolutionary guy Ted Turner at the house and deciding that there was to be this phenomenon called 24/7 television new betting that people wouldn't be interested and I would be a market for 24/7 television which was the first man United States and thank you for the world.

He then took it international and I remember starting at the very bottom and then gradually working my way up and my first big international story was the first golf ball and the invasion of Kuwait by the rocks that I was saying in 1990 and then I just started covering all the major US was involved in from there, but it was an incredibly exciting time.

It was a time when we broke boundaries when we broke barriers where we believe that there was no no tomorrow.

There was no end in sight of this Golden Age because now 40 years later we realised that actually the business model and the disruption that happened has been very very profound.

Let me pick you up.

Phrase Golden Age used it a couple of times and your answer then I wonder what phrase you would use to describe the media environment in which it working now the very difficult age was difficult very different and the biggest I was a emblem of and it's not a good thing of what we working under now is people who is saying I don't know where to find the truth well.

That's my goes to like a day to my heart because I spend my whole career like many of my colleagues BBC and elsewhere trying to tell our viewers and listeners the truth about the world and so for them to make up their minds about how to react how to live their lives decisions to make it central just playing interest in whatever stories that happening around the world and they could be sure that we were telling the truth and then we getting the truth from Legacy institutions which record which had a code of conduct a business ethics and the most important thing was to be truthful and one of the people who is accusing CNN

Not telling the truth who calls you fake news with some regularity is the President Donald Trump and I was really comments by CNN CEO Mark Thompson recently who said we shouldn't slip the idea that part of our job is to oppose political forces as such our job is to cover the political contest rather than to head into the Ring and start throwing punches ourselves.

I was what you make of those comments and how you view the challenges of covering international politics when one of the most significant players Donald Trump repeatedly attacked the organisation you work for and I should say many organisations to that attacked.

This is Donald Trump 2.0.

We went in 1.0 between 2016 and 2020 so we're pretty well.

I've familiar with this.

I would say as you know Mark Thompson used to be the director-general of the BBC so you know him very well.

And I think there is you know marriage to making us de facto warrior then I can opposition group or resistant as they said before is the first trump administration many including us believe that we really in order to tell the truth.

We had a sort of go to battle did still the case then in order to tell the truth.

We have to go we have to put on our warrior outfit.

I said to speech recently that I thought I was going to give this administration six months before I tried to make a decision or evaluate for myself and where is going? What are the policies were what the policies were in terms of foreign policy, which I cover for the policies towards the media which I'm part of them with all of us, but it didn't take that long.

You know it's very 30-day trump administration that we knew exactly where this is going so on foreign policy has been massively a disruptor there's the big issues of Ukraine where he's you know when you know if you.

Thinking Ukraine was the guilty party Russia With The Innocent party now.

It's which sort of from that is any we don't really know where things but in terms of attacking in the United States you can see that they've come up with a much more deliberate campaign against the press.

Yes, I mean he's coming so we have to keep doing and regular basis of yours Christian will know of cause that you have covered the conflict in Gaza extensively.

I wonder all of these months into that conflict what reflections you have on the challenges of covering that story but we're not loading that's the first Big appalling situation impose upon us by the government of Israel which is the only one that keeps telling me it is a terrible and unacceptable situation that we are not allowed.

It is the first time in my history of reporting the news that we've been banned from.

Buy a democracy not be able to get into North Korea it's another thing not being able to get into into Gaza and cover this walk except for on members and those are very few and you have absolutely no freedom of movement.

You just have to follow from what I gather the military are the Israeli military.

So that is number one number to the view that the Siege of Gaza will have a terrible rather result and that would be hungry.

We will write and in itself is causing a massive reaction this is important because the stories that we been telling has had an effect they are beginning to understand that this appalling coverage.

What's happening inside Gaza has caused a certain tactical posable into the Israeli government to allow for Aiden how do you compare the precious being exerted on you as a journalist and

Is an organisation during this conflict vs.

The many other complex that you've covered with base and so is the BBC faced during this conflict against fire democracy.

We have written endless letters to the prime ministers of beers to embassies to whoever we can write with gone online asking for access and you know we're very concerned about her own colleague stringers and others who are working to tell us to tell the world the stories are guys and colleagues.

Are they are also suffering from the Hunger and starvation and we cannot put a puncture but he's ready government said he is to international law and says that it's acting in self-defence.

You say that I also want to ask you about something you getting an awful lot of attention in the last few weeks your new podcast called The X-Files all about foreign affairs with James Reuben the former US diplomat former assistant Secretary of State and also your

Ex-husband, how's it going? We talk about some of these issues actually a lot of these issues from the perspective of him having been as you describe the former official in a ministration, Clinton and Biden and me the same time.

Have you been married for 20 years and we've been divorced about 7.

That's when covering a lot of the same foreign policy story from just different perspective so we talk a lot about that.

You're able to compartmentalize their professional and personal so obviously at the Beginning is never that but we become you know amicable.

We have a child child 25 years old and we you know it's this part is the most range than the iphone you no talking to each other but it's been interesting and fun what you say interesting in finally let me ask you to compare because of course pod.

Is booming lots of personalities within user heading into the podcasting arena? How do you compare how you can talk and operate as a journalist in that podcast in space versus the traditional constraints of a television studio for me it basically boils down to tell him the truth no matter where I am I think on and you'll see if you if anybody wants his my very robots to get you won't be mistaken about where you know the truth ears and that we don't pull up and she's but we are here and we are truthful and that's the importantly we told human now on the podcast we get the chance to go a little bit behind the scenes and tell maybe stories that you know you wouldn't report is a news item, but we can it's the sort of atmosphere and the behind-the-scenes work that go into telling a story or two to deciding policy and his case we can bring to the podcast well.

We appreciate you.

I was just asked you before you finish because I know a few people have wondered how come you're making it with Global a big UK media company rather than CNN very happy to be doing it with Global is in agreement with CNN global is excellent and they have been amazing through this process and it's just a very happy situation for win-win to speak it was Christianity appreciate it.

That's christiane amanpour from CNN you can also listen to Christians podcast The X-Files via global know one thing you may have noticed in recent years is the growth in food and drinks coverage both online and in print in March DFT launch.

The new online home.

It's food and drink journalism the Guardian has feast and a New York time says it's offering nyt cooking is the biggest paid recipe site in the world.

It says the site and app with this.

489 million times last year but we can talk to Emily Weinstein food and cooking editor of The New York Times and be great to have you on the media show me to have your app for people who don't have your app if they open up nyt cooking.

What is the content mix that you are offering people so we have comprehensive recipe in Cooking Experience you know our apps have more than 24000 recipes and they have cooking instructions and warm or video and I know the New York Times as huge amounts of data on the people who consume all of its content are the people who are using your app who are coming to the New York Times for recipes and cooking advice same people who consume in the news or is there not as much overlap in the audience as we might think.

News offerings which are at the heart of within your times does horse maybe they're playing games by wire cutter for recommendations to reduce a lot of people who were dead in the entire bouquet as we do have a lot of users to subscribe just for the recipes and this is all.

I must ask you a question.

I'm sure you'll get asked a lot indeed this comes up in many different interviews on the media show about artificial intelligence.

I did a quick experiment earlier because lots of people use BBC recipes the UK so I put chilli con carne into a Google search expecting the AI to generate a summary of a recipe but it didn't it just offered the link to the BBC and other recipes as well, but are you concerned that in time they I will simply generate recipes which will mean people don't need to go to the BBC site or your side or indeed anywhere else.

Play sonata be concerned about that.

I mean obviously that is that is what is on the horizon and you can get recipes for me right now there I can say I think it's good but improved and I think a great number of consumers that will be good enough.

You know we hope that there will be there for people and knowing that you know humans make somebody's real hands for making the food recipes for you and tasting them along the way I do have one last question for you because I know that you have pointed to restaurant critics relatively recently and I'm curious.

What are you looking for in a restaurant critic? I'm looking for people who are first of a fabulous writers writing about food and with the Curiosity of a reporter because every credit is going to know about every cuisine and

Nothing, so you need somebody who in Glasgow if they don't understand in and do the reporting in a research and show it on the page and somebody has to write a Bad review.

I think we will not publish Aladdin negative reviews but I don't think we would have credibility with our readers if we didn't and so when I was looking for a new restaurant predicts I wanted to be sure that we could do that and could and could be in to do it fairly and I feel pretty sure that that were going to be able to do that ok.

We'll watch out for both of them.

Thank you to explain it all to assembly appreciate your time.

That's my Weinstein food and cooking editor for the New York Times Square restaurant critics fit into the media offering from.

Different organisations with the help of Charlotte ivers restaurant critic of the Sunday Times South Charlotte interesting that perhaps American prisons are less inclined to find to write negative used publications are less likely to carry them very different cultures in the UK and the US for us.

You know you some of the great us with dress up in different disguise.

It is and they would go with a different disguise five times at 4 to the restaurant and I don't do that, but you know they have fake credit cards MI6 operation.

It's not like that in the UK it's much more of a profession that is seeing yourself as just like another member of the public know a bit more and this is what you do all day.

Is think about restaurants call L profession and not for a minute suggesting that it's not but how does one go about getting into a profession?

Can't be that many paid restaurant critics in the UK total know that aren't they mate.

I think it a national level.

It's about five or six and there are a few weeks in a few of them.

What will have backgrounds in restaurants of some source usually that's when people were younger but in a lot of case it isn't this includes me it is people who have come up through a different newspaper in my case that was politics have any kind of expanded into doing something else then something else again and then eventually had happened to me the elephant march past my desk and said you office an hour's time and I panic I could have done wrong and where is getting fired and it turned out actually he said you know you think you can take on this job.

Do you think you'll be able to learn how to do it or did you say in the moment? Did you just say yes and I would so through because I was so utterly convince I done something wrong that I was not at all.

Yeah.

Maybe I think about it and he said always see lots of people so you know.

Mind and about 3 hours later.

I thought I've made a terrible mistake and I can storming back into the office so you must you must consider me and in that moment and indeed many moments for the followed when you been eating a restaurant and obviously thinking about how you can review it.

Do you ever worry about a lack of expertise and that particular type of food just as Emily from the what time does alluding to people can't be expert in everything that is certainly true and you've got a show respect to the restaurant that you're ready in can't assorted wonder in and do it half-heartedly so it is reporting job.

You know it's the same as you you won't sit down four reasons for having a restaurant with you in your life will be research process interview people you talk to Alexa but I might sometimes actually fits unfamiliar cuisine find someone friends or an expert sure you know that you maybe you can grow up with it and that can be quite helpful as I know people listening.

I'm going to want to know the answers to so that's rattle through a few of these how do you pick the restaurants?

Is not an exact science there are so many PLF press releases trying to get my attention and I tend to not use those too much is a combination of recommendations from readers from people in the indus.

Even friends sometimes chef for the best actually recommending their friends because they know the power of you and they're not going to recommend someone who they don't know it's really up to scratch and do you pay you do pay you can expense it back.

We're not allowed to have you anything that we have been given free by the restaurant and how do you approach and negative review when you go along and you think goodness this really wasn't what I was expecting.

What are the factors that you a bearing in mind as you sit down to write something.

They probably won't be thrilled to read.

It's Tricky isn't it? It's really disappointing when you have to reduce.

My negatively.

I was never go into a tickly independent business a small business intending to ready than negatively so usually when this has happened.

It means that something has gone really badly wrong and left me the customer down.

You feel awful about it, but you are there for the primary and if the reader about to get ripped off and something about to go wrong, then they need to know that so that's sort of the define moral line at your wedding on.

It's a lot easier to do if you know that this is someone with a big name someone with lots of money.

You can get someone who doesn't really care.

This is the 20th restaurant.

I don't think they're gonna cry.

When they get the review so that that's the type of restaurant with you people tend to be a bit harder on and both you and Emily of alluded to the fact that the restaurant critic is a job is one that reaches back in the media is history but more recent history of course we have food bloggers influencers a whole range of people online who are creating content around the idea that it's excellent and exciting to go to a cafe or restaurant or whatever it might be how do you view what they are doing vs.

What you and other critics are doing in more established mediums if you like.

In food-contact, I hate the word content that is what it is and there's been an explosion in how much we think about food in this country.

Haha everyone is cooking out everyone has interesting for and cuisines that was not the case 2025 years ago even that you can go to so many brilliant restaurants in the UK you can buy predecessor a girl for example in the Sunday Times and how much the time he was writing really negative reviews because there weren't that many good restaurants in to go to a lot of bad restaurant.

So you do have this sense that a rising tide is bringing up all ships in that size loft space for all of these different food writers food content creators, and I think there are slightly different things that people are looking for I think if you want a short sharp and then obviously something like one Instagram post from someone is really helpful if you're looking to be taken on a journey be told a story that's I think my restaurant is coming I remember it's very different.

Example book review for face reviews because the vast majority of people reading this review won't go to that restaurant.

It's got to be entertaining for them primarily and finally how do you view all of the restaurant critic within the overall offering from a from a publication? There was a lot of attention, when Jay Rayner went from the Observer to the ft.

Is it a surprise to you that restaurant critics are right up there in terms of the most high-profile journalists on a newspaper or is that just have it always has been and how it should be I think so much of these papers is full of Saturday and miserable the foreign pages are all sad that domesticated all sad and then you get this little moments of sparkle and a bit of glamour and a bit of fun and a bit of July but it's also something everyone can relate to eat.

So I think there is something really delightful about being getting to be a restaurant critic and I can see why it is a lot of people's favourite part of the paper because it's just fun.

That being the case well haven't had fun for is there are very much worse jobs around, but no it is a serious privilege to get to do that end in a you do some time to look at it and take while I'm getting paid to eat my dinner and write about it and so then you think I've got it make sure I'm doing it properly then.

I've got to make sure that I'm in the effort and getting it right appreciate it.

Thank you so much.

That's restaurant critic of the Sunday Times before that was only winding food and cooking the editor of The New York time is our last guest on this edition of the media show many thanks to all of our guests this week.

Thanks of course to all of you.

Not listening if you ever want to listen back to any of the additions of the programme you can find them all through BBC sounds but for now for me Ros Atkins but when you look at what's going on around the world.

It's easy to think that we humans are in capable of living.

Silly but there are out there people who disagree.

I keep going because someone has to hold the line between Gravesend revenge side and in my sideways mini series chasing peace from BBC Radio 4 meeting people who have radical ideas about how we can stop what Feels Like An inevitable slide into conflict listen first on BBC sounds.