Read this: Jeremy Bowen on reporting from Gaza, and the RAJARs

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts today I'm catching up with Jeremy Bowen who's in Jerusalem an overview on BBC coverage and put some of your comments about the reporting of the war will be digging into those recently released quarterly listening figures for the BBC to see what they really tell us and finally I've got some good news on the Saga of a new BBC app for overseas listeners that replaced BBC signs as the humanitarian crisis in go there is a rush of diplomatic and political efforts to reach an agreement and fears of escalation and many listeners of opinions about the breadth and tone of the coverage the issue of import and the difficulties of verification has been repeated many times Israel does not allow journalist to enter girls but that doesn't stop the Gathering of news to try.

Address these issues just to take a Pause and the Relentless cycle of news and get a broader perspective.

I'll be talking in a minute to BBC's international editor Jeremy Bowen I'm starting a positive.

My name is Ruth hill, and I live in Falmouth couldn't miss the opportunity to say thank you to Jeremy Bowen bridgewell.

Guy behave down to Gaza there are 8 tonnes on here baby melt moon Medical Supplies I'm going now there's no one I trust more to document the truth is game this trust over years of impartial reporting israelis.

Don't want us to film out of the window and the devastation inside Gaza so I've spent.

10-minutes lucky you with my own eyes.

I like to tell you that communities in the law forgot that I knew well very Viber and tens of thousands of people living hard knives but actually with the remarkable human spirit of flat battery left of them now.

If you'll be watching said my pictures you won't have any surprised but seeing it is really something that the Jeremy Bowen report is coming and now I'm going to hear impeccably research and analysis and I know it's going to be interested.

Thank you.

Well joining night from the Jeremy Bowen the BBC's international editor Jeremy on a busy NewsDay welcome.

Thank you for finding time for feedback and it's always a pleasure books about the Middle East international editorial job is to provide context and analysis and not just to report on events.

We've talked before on this programme about impartiality and balance has been a corner.

BBC journalism, but what do you say to listeners who ask should you be impartial when you see children starving? What does impartiality mean to you in the current context truth, but explaining how you got to that conclusion one thing and possibility absolutely is not this idea that well, you know she says that he says that lie somewhere in between know sometimes the truth is quite distinct but

My job is to try to dig in and find out not just what that truth is in truth is complex, but it's also to explain the steps that are taken to get to that and it's not something as well that can actually just pop out in in one piece you have to take it as a whole that something that BBC calls due impartiality where it's over a period of time.

We try and get round different viewpoints time when you brought broadcasting particularly is so limited that you have to have the focus and it's not just one piece.

I want to put a couple of listeners comments in Scotland my question to Jeremy Bowen the way in which the BBC is reporting the situation and Gaza and calling it and labelling at Israeli Gaza war which seems like.

Play misleading given that puts two sides on a natural fat fighting is Israel has a problem with a mass but the people in guys are the Palestinians are the innocent here suffering and being killed.

It doesn't deserve the description war interserve the description a genocide.

How many people out of the total number Who been killed have actually been her mask to innocent civilians not just children innocent civilians men women and children.

So if I can put you Maggie's question Jeremy why is it called a War started with a very well planned Hamas attack on Israel became in the context of a conflict that has lasted more than a century between Jews and Arabs for essentially for control of the land between the river Jordan and Mediterranean Sea the the place that you know under British rule was always called Palestine

So Hamas attacks on the 7th of October with the consequences, we'll know about Israel responded with the consequences that we all know about as for the so, I think it is legitimate to call a war warzone always to huge armies clashing on a battlefield.

They might have been in Napoleonic times, but they aren't in in in modern times genocide.

Is is a legal term as well as being a term like this more widely used to take it you know follow the the legality of it.

It's the issue people wanting to prove it have to prove intent to essentially deprive a group of population of the conditions for life and it's deliberately there is a high legal BA2 trying to prove that and so I think we will I'm very happy because it's entirely legitimate to talk about the issue.

But the legal point has not been proved now.

There are lawyers you say you don't have to prove the point you just go with the evidence but we try to do and in the reporting that I've done I've tried to reflect the the different opinions about that across the accusation of genocide roundly rejected by Israel and by the US government is not just many words that are heavily contested Jeremy as you know and there are various Media monitoring groups who dissected BBC's coverage pro Israeli advocates have complained about these outputs saying that is biased against Israel the centre for Media monitoring to set up by the Muslim council of Britain planes, that is really deaths are giving much more coverage and and they say that you no words emotive words like Massacre atrocity slaughter barbaric are used.

Disproportionately, what's your response to that by me I tried to use my words very carefully and looking and listening and watching my colleagues.

Do I wouldn't accept that characterisation know at all look human beings in 1-hour perfect and sometime people are in journalists working in what is that what you're very difficult story to cover because of lack of access to Gaza we work under pressure is not just of time and sometimes your ideal but I think generally speaking and across the massive range of output that we produce the massive Ranger journalism reporting.

I think we get that very hard to get the town right and it's it is good to hear from people Monday don't don't like it but sometimes.

I think that are critics.

Are disappointed they're not hearing what they want to hear and the whole point about in partial reporting is the you tell people think they don't want to hear and that can be and because what we aren't and would never want to be because we wouldn't be BBC News if we were that is a group of cheerleaders for one side of the other don't cheerlead it's not part of our job, but so that sometimes means that people hear some things we say might find harsh.

You know that this conflict divides listeners for like no other from Colchester and said that she's pointed to mistakes in the past that you've made and she says how can we trust that is reporting still not buyers i41 don't trust a word and I wonder where he gets information about Gaza him being isolated in Jerusalem well the first of all.

I'm sorry you think that but I would.

The one-time let's get this out there the one time when I said I did make a mistake in this was the when there was any closures near The Likely hospital in Gaza early in the war and I said.

Judging looking at pictures coming out with the hospital was on fire when they had the car park was on fire there has been a mum people who don't like the BBC there's been a great deal of Miss characterisation of an to put it mildly people accusing me of saying that the idf did it.

I never said that however it seems a cuddle people believe it and it's that it's not how do we get our information from Gaza what are the ideal way of being a journalist is actually which I love when I was a very young to unlist working as a trainee in Northern Ireland was to Narrow the distance between yourself the story now Israel stops doing that the BBC had some excellent Palestinian journalist working for a superhero on the staff working for racing cars with their families.

We help get them evacuated early on the wall.

Will they don't want to be there fair enough entirely sympathise with that we now work with.

A group of freelancers who we've got to know very well who we trust we have a Palestinian produces here in Jerusalem who deal with them on a daily basis sometimes on an hourly basis and wanting they passed on is that those jealous to find it very hard to work because of starvation affecting them as well one of them said that when he was filming in and markets from Hunger so we also get information from the United Nations different agencies from edgeos is possible to contact Palestinians directly and speak to them and people like Gaza correspondent the you know absolutely brilliant Kristy avalos Farah grew up and lived out his entire life is not there and got his family and you left with them.

He has he is.

Minute by minute contact with people who he knows and gas and diesel in credible source of information for so look we do our best that there's BBC verify the look of things satellite pictures of open-source intelligence the kind of things have come out.

There is a lot of information that comes out but what it is lacking from our perspective from my perspective as someone who is anything would I based my career on and I've been with ab on my 40 second year is a PVC journalist is eyewitness reporting this point you from David my name is David and I'm calling from Wembley all my news from the BBC I cannot help noticing that while the BBC reports that there is a lot of the Israeli government from israelis and within some Jewish groups.

There is almost no reporting of criticism Hannah's orgasms are Palestinians living in the west bank some newspapers contain.

Comment pieces in 4 minutes that they have recently been demonstration to paint Hannah's BBC keeps reminding is that is round does not allow the generous into Gaza but they are journalist and reports to them and the BBC Ofcom reports on incidents where Palestinians have been killed quoting that they have received the details from trusted sources the question is why trusted sources of the TV reports of descent by Blossoms against hammers these are extremely important events the people taking part do so at Great risk to themselves is quite right with the BBC what's on in the post their government, but it is equally write a report on the true feelings of Gardens about 5 months actually a few Google protests in Gaza against to mass on BBC website when they were happening particularly around March April May there were lots of reports about that, so we have covered it.

The difference between talking to people and Israel who don't like the way things are going with the government people in in in Gaza is we can talk to people directly in Israel we cannot go in people's houses and talk to them privately in Gaza in the way.

They normally we would and people are all sewing taliyo nervous about talking in in Gaza because the masses can be eventful organisation, but look we going to be absolutely clear about this at the moment and Gaza life is a fight for survival for people that a campaign group might come together to do a demonstration at the moment frankly as you know.

It's a luxury.

I think when the time comes.

Hopefully we'll be able to talk to people that what they think the right now.

There are the lyrics for them.

Jeremy wonder if you can explain two listeners like John in Gloucestershire why this conflict get so much airtime when there are other places where there is humanitarian suffering.

Fighting around the world thinking of Sudan the Democratic Republic of Congo and they're very good dimension in comparison to the country around are so where there is now a really acute humanitarian crisis with masturbation in one city in particular.

That's been under seat I believe for more than a year so it's impossible to get places.

I think pretty much impossible for Agencies or 42 journalists.

It is also possible to get into guys, but as I said there are still sources of information that come out of there is more than that a lot of thought to why this actually very small place does generate so many headlines and why so many cyclists have been here and down and why the world looks it in the way that it does and it is unique first well.

That's uniquely divisive.

Why is that first of all I think everybody?

Who is a background in one of the the three monotheistic religions do people feel they know something about here it also plays in the People's worldviews if you think there is a if you're one of those people who believe that there is a sort of dominant in a gender driven by American power bi finance capital by Western attitudes towards the rest of the world and and also if you have the other attitude which is the there are important issues of liberation and freedom of colonialism in play here, then.

I think the not the Middle East but specifically the israeli-palestinian conflict.

Is a becomes a microcosm of all of that and people are able to play into that a lot of the things that they really passionate about so that and sometimes people are more passionate about the wider issues that actually knowing the detail which is can be a little bit involved about what's going on here.

Jeremy Bowen international editor from Jerusalem thank you very much indeed.

Thank you know you've seen the headlines recently saying BBC Radio share of listeners as for post-pandemic low of 42.6% from 50.9% back in 2021 despite some of the flagship stations actually sing listen figure zinc Radio 4 is the UK's most listened to speech network with 9.2 million listeners to make sense of these latest quarterly audience listening figures and wouldn't they might actually have used a and b maths digging his Media consultant and host of among other things the podcast the media club that welcome back to feedback headline.

Jump site.

Maybe is the Radio 2 has the lowest figures of audience reach in the last 20 years, but it's still the biggest single radio station in the country.

That is growing competition from a gorilla.

I wonder if that's what setting Radio 2 through the huge competition compared to what it was even sort of 510 years ago and as you said that's an interesting thing is no radio big drop close in 20-years, but still the biggest that's cos it's been split 1000 Ways if you're listening think about their own listening habits.

They're not necessary stopping listening to radio stations, but they're probably added more to their to their repertoire when I talk to you a couple of years ago.

I B listening figures about the same time of year.

I think there's not a Ken Bruce has just left Radio 2 on the BBC say that his show is performing pretty well, and that would seem to be born out with the figures.

Is it too soon to see the effect of Zoe Ball leaving yes, I left at the end of last year.

We've had sort of two lots of figures and there's always a bit of a kerfuffle.

There's always a change people sampling different things and it's very hard to.

To know whether this is a snapshot like a trend of something that does going forward and we look at radio to the big change really was in 2019.

That's when the figures started to go down.

That's when Chris Evans swap sides Virgin Radio started straight away, so lots of listeners could move across and that was at the point where Greatest Hits radio really should have started to grow it took over lots of FM licences around the country and smooth radio for the first time Radio 2 had a real competition Nationwide with high-value Talent and it's never really had that before and so I don't you surprised that it's figures have dropped at Radio 2 day.

Will always be concerned about that.

Is it of a sudden downward trajectory or will it bottom out and it should have slightly too early to know that at the moment night the Telegraph which always like to knock the BBC does point out that is local radio.

That's driving the overall decline in listening figures.

It is fair to say that local radios numbers are done hugely on.

I think you're over almost a million.

I mean look radius definitely contributed to the share of listening.

That's dropped with the BBC so and it's of 20-years ago was it's pretty connect with commercial radio now.

It's only about 42% for the BBC and the rest for commercial radio local radio has changed a lot.

It's a network lot of programmed into sharing a lot programming across the presenters on each of those stations have shifted a year about a year 18 months on from those changes.

They doesn't seem to be very many green shoots around that at the moment to track a what happens next I mean they're affected as well by the growth of more competition particularly for older audiences where BBC local radio tends to do quite well.

Yeah, that's where commercial radio really piled into over the last few years, but it definitely Simpson questions to be asked about that.

They got that right mix comparisons with 10 years ago.

Comparisons with the post pandemic times already feel a little bit outdated because people differently now and I wondered these figures account for the amount of people are consuming fire podcast Sur catch up different sample radio 4S figures.

Do they include the number of people who listen to programs via signs rather platforms as podcasts know that captures people who are listening to Linear radio broadcasting so that the numbers so not for people who listen to the show was a podcast are on tomorrow more people listening life on on Radio 4 two things you can see me figures.

Are they make the amount of listening so the hours can choose and what that data shows actually is that the total amount of linear radio consumed is pretty static has been for the last 10 years, but where is changed is the types of people that listen so older audiences you go out with a new broadcasting still isn't a huge amounts of it and even some cases at listening.

Set a radio that sort of holding up the numbers at the other end of the spectrum the younger audiences.

They're not really disappearing from Radio so still 75% of 15 to 24 listen to the radio each week, but the amount the day listen to has drastically changed.

It's about 40% less than it was 10 years ago.

There's been reported recently that shows just how much young people are going to YouTube for their content and as well a lot to different places so for younger audiences.

They don't necessarily see the difference between Raquel listening platform and a viewing platform.

So they might watch a YouTube video essays of watching inverted commas.

It might be on in the background.

Just out the radius on in the background, but you could argue that that's like listening to the radio so all of that starting to two together and people's again the choice is Grown and if you think about we're not your listeners grew up the only way to get free music was to get it from the radio and anyway to hear speech bass.

When was the radio stop the case anymore so if you're a radio station you're not only compete against other radio station should get beaten for people's time and in all of these other places as well.

You think the BBC should be doing about it.

Should the BBC be going to YouTube to find these younger listeners where they are because they're already there in Spades and then if they do they try and lower them back to the mothership.

I think you've got to go where the listeners are the trouble that the BBC has the broadcasters is if there if they raped ratings now automatic Linea ratings suddenly.

There's a Ferrari but I think there's Only One Direction This is particularly going and that's it and be more difficult to come back to the mothership.

Be that pressing BBC One or tune into Radio 4 BBC iPlayer on BBC sounds that is much more competition and consumer behaviour is changing quite a lot.

And if you just think of yourself and how your own behaviours changed it's of 10x that for younger audiences.

That's what they're doing that Dee get Media consultant to add host of the podcast the media Club thank you very much for joining me on feedback.

Thank you recently on feedback the new BBC app has come in for a bit of a bashing from overseas business.

You are missing BBC signs well.

I'm really happy to tell you that I finally got some good news from any of you listening from abroad Consultants in the future of radio and editor of pod news he lives in Brisbane and he made the case that on demand listening should be restored or some listeners contacted feedback to say they appreciate it is views and his nation on why BBC signs and deliveries in the first place so much questions we oversee list.

I admit to change his bank confusing and hearing the others listening experiences with the word also, please what a ministration understanding to monetize content.

Could you please remember those address for listeners and viewers is the Sarah Jones speaking from Calgary Alberta Canada haven't heard from the feedback programme the loss of on-demand listening is due to music right ridiculous program.

Does not claim you know do any of the index news programs during the day enjoy listening to the Today programme not daily periodically because it keeps me up to date with the British way of life in ways that podcast that present the best of pay and taxable working come from away.

I've heard since the BBC sounds flora began that the changes driven by.

I'm also the feedback comments.

I've heard or from radio for the SNES is this not disingenuous.

I agree with James cridland that on the master Radio 4 without many decision well is good news Louise Lagrange from BBC Studios responsible for the BBC audio business internationally was interviewed by Rajan data on over to you.

That's our sister program on the world service the new BBC is a work in progress and that they have been listening to your concerns.

We are listening to feedback and I'm also really pleased to say that we will soon release catch functionality on.com Radio 4 and world service English in response to the feedback that we received but we are working really really hard to make as much content as possible available to international audiences within the realities of what's possible from a right standpoint and is ultimately early days for us.

This is a first iteration.

We are on a journey, and we will be rolling out more features more content and further enhancements for audiences in time.

Yes, you heard Right On Demand is going to be introduced for Radio 4 on the world service I got clarification at will include today and p.m.

Which is great news for people in different time zones the fool on demand catalogue will be searchable on site, but don't rush off just yet.

They're coming for a few weeks now.

It's great and the programme with some good news that shows how your comments and concerns that have been airing on feedback since this was first announced at the beginning of the year do a difference and can change policy next week.

It's a special intelligence themed feedback the Old very new and the reassuringly familiar.

I know that sounds quite but you just have to wait and see until then from me and the team.

Thank you so much for listening and for giving us your feedback culture can cancel someone in the blink.

Celebrities sports stars politicians influences and royalty can all find themselves in the firing line in the age of AI generated evidence you need to ask.

How are you supposed to separate the fact from fiction? That's where we coming I'm in and this is fame Under Fire from BBC sounds will miss bus do you get to the truth behind a timeline there are new episodes every week, so make sure you listen to fame Under Fire and subscribe on BBC sounds.