Read this: Reporting the Gaza ceasefire, Bari Weiss profile, Today in Parliament

Sounds music Radio podcasts, can I just say different heights and reaction with the lowest expecting that every week now music Radio podcasts from BBC Radio 4 hello and welcome as a ceasefire comes to Gaza this week.

We'll look at how the media told the story and continues to cover it.

We're heading to the US for a big movie.

They're very wise has become editor and chief of CBS news and sold the media companies who founded for reported 150000000 and well here on Saturday can't compete with this the BBC programme today in Parliament is 80 years old and it's always had high profile fans and I'm very comfortable Isaac old is champion.

Why don't you come to bed earlier, but I've put my book down when the program that was the former Speaker of the House of Commons the late great Betty Boothroyd and we'll speak to one of the presenters of the Parliament in a few minutes time and Donald Trump coming to the Middle East well Channel 4 Krishnan guru-murthy has recently been reporting from Forster Square in Tel Aviv he got back yesterday and he's weather here in the movie show Studio thank you very much indeed.

I'm just tell us about the the level of Media presence in hostages Square four nights out of square and we also presented the program from other parts of Tel Aviv and Jerusalem as well, but it's very very big at the moment.

I'm in hospital Square I've been there over the last 2 years and it saves and closing times of the crowns and the kind of people that come there.

It was it was sought of started and kept going by a lot of people who have quite critical of Netanyahu so it's quite a turn-on establishment feel sorry for quite some time, but that obviously changed last week and you had everybody just coming there as a point because I wasn't really another focal Point so that was one of the really interesting things about how how they feeling in that Square really changed over the course of the week and you spoke to a number of relatives of

I wonder how they viewed the media in particular the foreign Media analysis of the hostages are desperate to tell their story and so they are very well of the media and the foreign media and they they have a sphere you know that their side of the story isn't being told and still isn't being told I'm still getting messages from some of them today.

They want to come on the news because of the family too haven't had their bodies back.

So so they are here.

They told their stories many many times and we are very very keen to keep telling it's because they want to keep that issue in the news and there's one important element of this story, but of course there are many important elements.

I wonder how you and your Channel 4 balance how to place the different aspects of this story both in terms of the order in the programme of the amount of time that you give them to yeah.

I mean it's an incredibly.

Storage units very very multi-layered and you got you got the complexity of the fact that you got access to all of these things as well you got access to politicians and commentators and critics and protesters and families who can all help you make the story on television that you don't have access to that in Gaza so we you know where very conscious of telling the Palestinian story as well and so we do that to a variety of means that everybody else is doing the journalist that we work with in in Gaza and the west bank or interviews that we can get out of there which off and agencies as well as Palestinian citizens in Israel and Palestinian politicians in Israel as well, so you try and tell the story in as Broadway as you possibly can it's also why you know we're not broadcast.

Square because that frames the story very much they're right from the off but you know we were a couple of the nights that we were in hospital Square the title the first thing that you see on Channel 4 News when they say it's on was actually from Gaza and then it would be and here's the scene in hostages Square so it is it's really really complicated as you know you got the job politics.for.all as well and the international side.

So you know we try and have you can't tell if someone package you can't tell morning to view it takes up a lot of time and Chris and I want to talk a bit more about framing because of course you've interview government officials you've interviewed former diplomat and what's the sense you get about the battle when it comes to one side or the other came in victory for example the victory was not the biggest thing anyone.

I think in the last few days, cos I think you just like the fact that Donald Trump told the israelis, they had one that was not what most israelis were coming and saying to us and there is a depreciation in Barcelona people that nobody is really one but the the the framing and the media aware that is really really intense on my side, but it is Wales is very sophisticated your money into it.

They have lots of hired by our people both inside the government and outside the government who are very very busy framing the story getting a story out putting on social media contacting journalist offering and sales for interviews they have various think tanks with form of generals and former military types are also putting the story out very very clearly and in that says it like covering a British to be getting off the record briefings depending on you know who your contacts.

So yes you do but but it's very

Ok, so I think it is well.

They are very very good and clear at getting their side of Story out, and so you have to be very aware of what they doing aware of time to cut through the narratives with your question are quite difficult because there's something I think about that sort of the National character.

You know where they are very good talk with them very you know they can be with me arguments to and and very forceful and so you kind of got to be aware of this the environment you're in when you're there and not be sucked into it and cut through it and sometimes that means the interviews can be quite robust and you have to say that you know you're not you're not here to make a speech you know we're not we're not doing that today answer the questions and yeah, you just have to keep that in mind and you mention Donald Trump I'm in the present.

He obviously doesn't make a lot of the headlines in the cover is more widely is rolling.

Is indisputable but he had a narrative that he was keen to describe.

How did you approach that everything that you do a Donald Trump which is this is what he said and this is the reality so when it says the nightmare, but I think it might be my good evening that bad day.

You know I said his quotes about the night.

They're doing over in the morning over.

It is not true.

The nightmare is not over for lots and lots of people not just the Dawson's but there are still hot you know hottest families in Israel film the nightmare is over and calling the war over is is very premature.

I think you'll just have to see this what you saying listen house framing it but actually there is a whole other complex side to this there lots of the countries involved.

He was undoubtedly you know the thing that made the difference but without the pressure of Turkey of Qatar and others this would not have happened because while he was able to say to Netanyahu it's over your stopping.

I had to get them to say to Hannah's pretty much the same thing question you're staying with us.

Thank you for being with us on the media show let's bringing belt route chief international correspondent at the Independent who joins us from his belly been on the program and number of times before thank you very much indeed for your time.

How is this story is unfolded in the last few days.

Have you decided to approach covering in that she moves to East Jerusalem so I'm in the occupied Palestinian territory right now but in terms of how we been covering.

I mean this it's been you have to cover all sides and it's incredibly important to be able to get the information over but the feelings over the emotion over and obviously had celebrations in Forster Square I was just a few days ago.

Are you had some celebrations happening in the occupied West bank and then again those similar kind of things in Godzilla also with a deep amount of a pain.

Trying to make sure that you're not dominating the covers with one narrative or even one and boasting like enjoy because that's not activated full is actually quite difficult you know we have a match team effectively covering all of these three things happening for simultaneously with mine credible Paterson College 7 West bank and Gaza just trying to get it again Donald Trump talking about a new dawn for the Middle East but the reality is far from that is very difficult because you know you we had a little dance parties on the corner of us.

Just wear with handing out shops in there is DJs it was a party but you know when I was talking to me, but the same time on my mobile on WhatsApp I was talking to a Palestinian who just been released from the two years of being Israeli prison without charge or trial.

He just been delivered back to guys.

Are you hopefully reunited with his family in the entire family have been killed and his home and been raised to the ground the only person.

4-year old daughter and it's really important that you get that across in the reporting in a responsible way and honestly in this particular conflict every single word counts you have to get it right even even just in grammar comes into it.

You know do you use the Active or Passive tense and a huge amounts of scrutiny for good reason so you have to really very very hard very very compassionate me very very sensitively to make sure that you don't accidentally get you swept up in one side and not the other so you can put together in a proper compassionate Vision and what's on the ground you mentioned the scrutiny that your work is under just help us understand.

What form that takes does it come on social media does it come from people? Who are the story who feel like you're getting it wrong.

What can you help us understand the experience of that scrutiny?

Write a lot of people have been very upset with the mainstream media and Legacy media and I understand that every social media in Israel they have quite a sophisticated system where they have organisations that will actually contact you in situations in the password.

We could have turned up at the offices with complaints and not letting at my work, but generally about the meaning of people in the street, because it's been so much so much at stake Liza steak with the story so you have to contend with that everything that you have to think about every single word you use because you can have the Erasure of truth in elimination of particular language example right now.

I'm in East Jerusalem it's occupied East Jerusalem if I remove the word occupied that I changed the nature of the situation on the ground.

Castle with everything I'm doing the screen is right.

I think you can get a little bit too intense and sometimes even trying to violence you can get better example but every day you just have to think really really hard.

You've got to constantly learn constantly go through all the language.

We have conversations in our office and all the time about training about language about making sure that particular facts about getting it right all the time.

It's a constant communication and still you make mistakes and so that's good news right sometimes it can be a bit too much but you just have to keep learning and keep trying my best.

Thank you very much for sparing us the time.

I know you're very busy.

I'm going to talk to both in a minute about the ban on foreign journalist going into Gaza independently ever since October 7th in terms of how you covered it so far covered Gaza who do you talk?

And when you presumably you have good contacts inside a mouse.

How do you trust what a massive saying are you able to hold them to account?

Transit cover to me first of all we have an incredible Palestinian colleague on the ground to has gone through an unimaginable last 2 years in fact.

He even had a baby born in the heaviest nice apartments in Cardiff City where he was living in a tent.

So your own rely heavily on on you know I mean I I can't even imagine half a smear campaigns based targeted killings if they come through hell.

I'm constantly in touch with people all day everyday three things like WhatsApp signal telegram even Facebook and it to me I keep in touch with people all the time.

It's Medics first responders billions in terms of talking to the armed wing that for me has been almost impossible, but they are have largely been underground in I speak to the political Bureau Who last part of them are in Doha

You ask them to their comment they will tell you what they believe to be true then you have to make that decision on your own understand all sides will be obviously putting forward their own so you know you have to have your head screwed on at all times, but you can try and hold them two accounts ultimately they will stick to whatever messaging they have and it's the same thing as I'm constantly in touch with his really side as well, whether it's sources within the governmental the military you every time something happens.

I will go for military.

So why did you do this again? They will give the train report as accurately and sensitively as possible, but it's very very hard.

You know I have covered.

I was on the ground in 2012.

I was on the Ground 2014.

I was on the ground just after the first time.

I haven't had any access to tools the ground it feels like you're trying to report blind and that's why I realised too heavily on an incredible Palestinian colleagues who are living through absolute hell.

Play campaigns Anna said talk to killing but it's hard.

It's really really hard to get access to that information and it makes newcomer slower and it makes it makes it harder because even my colleague from the access to the internet.

You know that to get food.

I've had situations.

Where are you? I'm more interested in my colleague evacuating because he needs to leave now, then then you can we have to think about that as well, you know so it just makes it so much harder to get into control military in bed absolutely I want to bring christening in as well at this point.

We've talked many times in the media show about the pressure from numerous news organisations to allow international journalists in the IDS as it too dangerous international Janice to enter the Gaza strip christening.

You were talking earlier about how Channel 4 news is covered it and you just

Janice that you trust inside Gaza what pressure are you involved in to change things now there is there a scent that it might change and Andy would you want to go absolutely and we're all so desperate to go in you know I'm not getting any indication from this way the government they going to change their position, but I just don't see how long to hold the reason for the not allowing as in when you ask was always it's too dangerous.

You know we can't guarantee your safety well.

That's all over now for the most part the exception of some individual instances in the last couple of days the bombing is over so I don't see how much longer they can carry on saying it's too dangerous for journalists.

They might say have to wait till international stabilisation for steaks over that could be quite some time in terms of pressure all we can do is keep asking for it.

You know we sign letters we get together we ask.

But the bottom line is they control the gate and unless somebody else is going to come along the said it wasn't part of the agreement none of the international leaders have been talking about this.

I'm quite surprised come up anywhere in Europe but actually OK now.

It's time to let let people in as well to see this and we just instinctively will be fairly quick but I mean who knows what's your perspective on this if you had any indication that the policy from the israelis.

Good shift, and if it did shift, would you and your colleagues at the Independent want to go there? I was in guys are into walls in the past and they are also dangerous was remember when I went in 2014 during conflicts.

I have to sign a piece of Israeli military Merseyside a piece of paper saying it was not their fault if your killed that was the way we got in the association here organise a bus to buses one.

Go out at one point everyday at the single point today you to get a bus pass out and that was organised to pressure from the front Association day at the moment.

I'm stand a trying to go to this really cool cab access but the deal was there to give up to ask this disclaimer saying you know that is responsible if we killed and we went in and since we were able to do it then.

Why is it different now and what that means that Palestinian journalist acceptable for them to be under extreme levels of danger, but it isn't prince national.

I don't buy that line.

You know I think it's probably got to do with the fact that we would all be walking around guys and now looking at extremely distressing scenes and wondering how much is absolutely destroyed that was the reason that exist anymore just help and help us and and

Is understand the discussions between someone and your position in the last few days reporting from Tel Aviv and The Newsroom back in London how does that play out in terms of how the coverage overall is shape, but also the role that you will play with in the overall coverage really changed over everything online.

I mean we still have a morning meeting on teams and we talk all day and you know we have safety advisors and the editor and you know the same conversation happened.

Wherever you are in the world these days.

It is relatively easy and when you're on the ground go off and do whatever you going to do and then you provide it.

You know there's not the London team don't really get to decide what you doing that respect cuz you do what you can do you say this you discuss it was going to go to bed.

What about you? What's the to and fro between you and your colleagues in London

Supporting the story each day as an example and I will I have conversations with the entire team whoever's running the blog for example helping man covered in London all day and so in that I will flag things that are coming up but also say you please be aware that this is a line which I believe to do you know you know about this or don't forget this is a piece of terminology Matthews you know it's a lot of the reported in London haven't had to leave this story before you will find it very constant back and for those with the Editors all day everyday to try and make sure that I covered is the most accurate and the most you know I guess responsible.

So you know this is a difficult situation.

You spell true you're with the Independent Krishnan guru-murthy is with Channel 4 News please both of you stay with us, but I want to bring and Lee Edwards

The professor of Strategic communications at the London School of Economics and political science has been analysing how the media has been framing recent events and the wider history of the conflict welcome Lee Edwards just explain first what framing you think you're seeing in the reporting of these events and thanks for having me on the show I mean I think the commentary from Balham from Crystal Peaks to the ways in which this conflict is exceptionally Complex in the way of the media reported on in the past just to be clear my school work isn't directly related to this particular conflict that I haven't done the ways in which that coverage because it has evolved over time if you look at the way that media framing is is researched in relation to Wars and conflicts Focuses on four different things that what's the problem?

What's the cause of a complex Howie tomorrow evaluate the conflicts and one of the remedies for it and those things they are always filtered through the events on the ground and so Christian and talking about this Inn Media City of what is whatever is happening.

How you then make decisions about what should be presented in the news.

How it should be narrated and how much that depends on the Xbox to John Lewis the geopolitical position of different actors and crucially their interests and how they want the media to frame the particular story and I think this is battles that was seeing was really quite obviously over the last week or so the ways in which people like Donald Trump are really keen to present this particular human in his solution in particular and as the precursor to a long lasting peace whether or not we buy into that is relatively unimportant to him really.

It's about how we are able to perceive him in the way that he wants us to by leveraging this event hence for example things that might not make sense to us like having the head of FIFA at the PCD having a big sign saying please 2025 at that some of these mechanisms that betrayed to us.

How people are trying to use the media and this occasion to present themselves and their interest in different ways, so I was just going to ask you over the two days clearly.

What's happened a ceasefire is a positive thing release of all.

This is a positive thing.

There is lots of positive in this story, but what's your view on you know after years of War which has been miserable for everybody and worse.

What's your view on how the media in your sense come too optimistic about these days.

Obviously not talking about the Independent Channel 4 News but more broadly, how did you view the way they approached it? I think the the general tone last week was this is a disk is a game-changing moment.

I'm not really quite sure why that was quite so strong communicated through the mainstream Media outlets.

I think there was caution but it was it was a colour of a subtext to the main story may be partly driven by the fact that the the the despair of the previous two years and the endless war what felt like an endless war had perhaps potentially finally comes with conclusion under no reason why the media just as everybody else would hope that would be true, but the persistence of events on the ground you know continues and the

Christmas talking about you know that the visuals and how important the visuals are and bells talking about you know who you choose how you manage the emotion all of those things have played into the coverage over the last week and so we see different things we see things that might contradicts that hopeful message for example as well, so I think the framing has been really quite shifted.

It's a lot from day to day as things for the evolved.

Let me just come in here because I'm sure Christian and would like a chance to respond to what you said I mean in terms of baby.

I wish I wasn't watching lots of other people's output as we're pretty busy making our own.

I mean I don't think we framed as peace in our time.

We framed it with great caution and pointed out all the with it, but obviously there is a moment when you know when you say it again changing moment as he is literally a game-changing moment but you mustn't over player.

Doesn't say something going to get to a Palestinian state and everyone can live happily ever after but you explore you know what the steps that might be.

What are the challenges might be to Bass and what the likelihood of happening is so I can't speak for the people.

I mean.

I I think to be honest the big question is the framing of the you know the Killing for the last 2 years and weather.

What's the coverage that it should have got particularly in the first year when and people dying everyday and it wasn't being mentioned on half news bulletins and that is a discussion.

We had on the media.

Show true.

I just wondering is there as this moment arrived in the form of the ceasefire deal.

Do you think the media provided sufficient context in terms of how the deal happened and how it fits into the broader situation in the Middle East I mean again? I can't see all media coverage of it.

I certainly think there was a lot of any different organisations that may be very clear.

an exchange of Citizens and you going fine and a partial withdrawal, where is there still control 50% almost completely destroyed enclave isn't the factors of 1 percent of 100% and 99% left to do I mean I've literally put analysis this morning saying that in possible problems that have plagued the exact part of the world for generations are the top of the agenda now in talks with don't have a deadline haven't started yet both sides basically presenting their own version of what is essentially a 20 page 20 PDF and so therefore we really nowhere close to piste other than fighting happening at the 32nd out of time unfortunately belltree chief international correspondent the Independent

It was Professor of Strategic communications at LSE thank you and kristian guru-murthy Megatron you are staying with us for a little bit and next on the media show we're going to talk about an ordinary Media story playing out in the US it concerns Barry White's you may not know her but she is a very big deal and us media and so is her new job yet.

Very wise has been at the New York Times opinion section a star columnist that then but she quit very publicly in 2020 in a resignation there so she wrote instead a new consensus has emerged in the Press but perhaps especially at this a reference to the New York time the truth isn't a process of collected Discovery but orthodoxy already known by an enlightened few whose job is to inform everyone else 5-years on she's now sold the media company she started for millions reportedly and has been given one of the top jobs in US TV news story comes in three distinct.

Chapters and we're going to go through them with the help of macaroni Media editor at semaphore and host of the mixed signals podcast Max thank you very much for coming back onto the media show if we take us three chapters is the first one would be her time at the New York Times and her resignation just tell us what happened.

Oh, yeah, thanks for having having me back very became times in a week 2010 following Trump's election she was kind of hired to be essentially a house one of the house Conservatives only been inside most of the editorial dominated by people with the left-leaning prospective essentra last period was kind of their to represent an opposing view in some ways you come over from the journals opinion page where she has represented a general perspective but had a little bit hesitant about Donald Trump and how far the Wall Street Journal page was was going.

In its support for rent in your times she wrote about the intellectual dark Web and it's growing view a man Democrats liberals that there was going in liberal consensus, you know that was popping up in academia and capture these formulae.

Very centrist can stardew institutions including the New York Times which was one of the reasons why she decided resign in 2020 following the firing of James Bennett or decision to for James minutes to no longer work for the company, then it had any her opinion section in Hyde white and published in our bed by senator Tom cotton, which was very was seen as inflammatory at the time and was criticised quite heavily from from interrupt you because we need definitely get onto chapter 2 because they're so she resigns.

She leaves she set up a sub Stack and then she quickly found an audience and

Starts this thing the Free Press what is it? What what type of content that do just briefly substack largely analysis in essays from a kind of from this perspective the data.

Just laid out a criticism of some of these institutions for the for the perception that their beliefs to foreign to the left and they weren't willing to accept views and opinions and it's quite quickly from very own personal subs back into something called common sense podcast as well and eventually into its own for publication backed by some folks from the Silicon Valley and emergent tech right eye and which can help boost it to having over 100000 a describing and then chapter 3 is very wise sells the Free Press for reported 150000000 as part of a broader deal in which he becomes editor-in-chief of CBS news and try listening.

Don't know the American media landscape.

Just explain how big a deal CBS news is it's incredible is one of the oldest.

It's one of the television broadcasters the oldest and largest national news organizations and the idea.

I just a few years ago.

Just a few months ago the idea that it would be there will be run by someone with television experience who is Brody and essentially because the new owners like this person's perspectives the day been writing about and podcasting online.

It's totally in the US beginning was really very very few examples of I guess the question.

We are all asking is why did it happen? Why was very wise picked? It's a great question it's something that we've all been kind of trying to figure out in internet getting out but I think there is a bit.

I think there's a lot we know we know that David Ellis and his.

Paramount just took over and he is a huge fan of Barry White says he was seen before the acquisition of the publication were enough Free Press around at Media events, so is it's fine this for the publication was was no secret and of course that's all happens at a moment when a serious and Andy ellisons paramount.

Have a lot of business.

They want to do in United States that requires federal approval and Barry has Close ties with the administration one of her.

Investors is the cryptos are for the trump administration.

I think this is in a lot of ways seen as as as a on the carrot for the trump administration the sign that they willing to play ball and do things do things differently.

I just want to be a Christian guru-murthy from Channel 4 News Chris what do you make the appointment at the first thing you understand American news as a business is fundamentally different to Britain you know this is.

publicly funded Public Service Broadcasting in which everyone trying to do the right thing this is a business, it's about making money, so you got a load of business leaders in American broadcasting who are terrified of Donald Trump and you can see how that played out even on the late night talk show you know decisions over the last few weeks with Barry White I mean it is not completely weird and unheard of to have a colander someone has not been working journalist if you like running a news organisation the BBC did it was James Hardie you know we knew his opinion about all sorts of things before he became the editor but when you came to the BBC you decide if that's my job and so if that is why is goes to CDs and says my job is to return CBS his reputation as one of the great networks providing impartial news then fine, but will have to judge her on her on her behaviour if she knows they would an agenda and you no access stories and

Not doing that we're not covering this and get rid of jealousy.

She find her problematic then you know that something to worry about all will be revealed in the coming weeks and months from channel for you.

Thank you very much indeed.

Thanks very much to to Max tiny from 74 you can hear Max on his podcasts which is called mix indoors now last week, but significant and British Broadcasting today in Parliament first aired on the BBC in October 1945 and is still going strong 80 years on 11:30 p.m.

Weeknights on radio Daisy don't know and it's a full survey label on BBC sounds of it remains the only programme the BBC is required to produce under its charter.

It's early morning signalling yesterday in Parliament has evolved over the Decades adapting to changing listening habits and platforms the longtime presenter of both programs season who is with us will talk to Susan at the moment, but first of all let's listen to how to say in Polish

Founded in the 1960s for the first time in modern history, they had a prime minister.

Who was a member of neither.

In the past fortnight that seem democracy at work in the conservative party.

It was nature in the raw red in tooth and Claw is not fantastic welcome to program congratulations on the anniversary.

I think I should ask how your celebrate celebrating by making some more programme.bbc Little Party perhaps you might be a few chocolates.

Will I mean just listen to that was a long before microphones were installed in the common to change but today in Parliament start and how is it changed over the years well.

It has changed you to it started back in 1945 the director-general then to William Halle want to happen if they have been a bit of resistance from Parliament itself that he sorted slightly under the radar got it going and it said it was a very straight report.

Within only 3 days he shot off some panicky memos to the editorial staff saying that he didn't want terms like pointedly or chartley to set the sound a bit like a sketch and he also a few days after that sent off another memo saying that he didn't want to hear any undistinguished wisecracks from MPs included in the report so it was very much.

I thought of it up your greens kind of broadcasting a Public Service Broadcasting and presumably undistinguished boys quotes for your allowed good ones where you just not know until I get the impression.

He thought you're all undistinguished parliamentary debate.

It's just worth listening.

I think to another one which is much more recent a clip of your colleague Sean Curran after the 2013 vote on possible air strikes on Syria

Order good evening.

This is Sean Curran at Westminster were in an extraordinary development MPs have rejected military intervention in Syria within the last hour David Cameron gave his response is clear to me that the British Parliament reflecting the views of the British people does not want to see British military action I get that and the government galactic.

I'm sitting there must be so many standout moments so many electric moments inside that train from quite a lot millions electric but you've been presented the program for many years.

What are the big ones the big events that stand out for you? We had a previous editor who once said that it's in fact the BBC's longest running soap opera because you've got of Betrayal you've got Drama there.

You've got passion in a month some of the materials to bits.

Let's face it but I think it was interested was that of course that was about a war that didn't have.

But I think it often the war debates have been some of the most posh and its prime minister's quite often say that that's the biggest decision.

They take itself from the biggest decision or the biggest debates in Parliament house, as well.

There's always a lot of passion there.

I remember Tony Blair in the Iraq war debate in extraordinary persuasive speech Hunt persuaded his own tablet Mr Robin Cook that dramatic resignation he made the night before and it's a fantastic privilege to be able to sit in the Press gallery, which I go and do and look down on and see it happening and be able to bring a bit of that atmosphere into the reports as well.

You see all sorts of things that aren't picked up on the TV cameras Susan you mentioned the press gallery.

Let us finally asked you a question lots of people wondering.

How do you make it was the process that leads up to the program being ready to broadcast well definitely not just me we've got a crack team of reporters.

Change from the early days, is that each reporter takes a debate or statement that kind of whole event and they'll listen to all of that there's masses have information hours and hours of stuff in there 200 boil that down into for 5-minutes.

So you need balance balance of parties.

You need a balance of those arguments so that you get the idea of whether they were more voices and one side of the other you were talking earlier in the programme about the Gaza to that's been a very difficult one is a fine judgement every single day that you just think but I've got banned because I've got ticked all the boxes for all the parties because sometimes these issues cut across the parties.

Do you really have to have a field but also it is a kind of so we want the best sound in there as well.

So you have to find a way of making sure that that's in there as well.

It's a good listen for the audience and involves a lot of the evenings.

I imagine it does it's not.

Is it used to be because they used to sit later they used to sit through the night very often I've had some grim nights way back and again on EU debates and that sort of the few people.

I think I've been to the commons bars.

So it is all got a bit crazier is a little bit earlier, but sometimes they can be very late night.

Very late so pretty exciting for us trying to get the programme on there.

We're just hurting to the end of our programmes has Susan him.

Thank you so much for coming on and you can hear a special edition today in Parliament this Friday evening at 11:30 text to Susan thanks to all of our guests.

Thanks to all of you for listening kitchen.

I would like next week.