Read this: Reporting on the Prince Andrew scandal, 'slow journalism' and how AI is influencing how we consume news

Sounds music Radio podcasts welcome back to the home of the oxymoron.

Enjoy it sounds hello.

I'm Rose Atkins this is the media show from BBC Radio 4 this week, the journalist is walking around the world in search of stories will join us from and where about new research on how AI is influencing how we consume use and what impact that's having on which information we trust also, how are you the internet?

Import shaped by the browser that we choose and there's a new one coming away and most productively and pleasantly use the web we're going to hear what Sam Altman and open a I have planned but we must start with Prince Andrew we listening to when it hits the fan discussing this perspective.

Let's now look at this from the medias perspective on Friday we heard that Prince Andrew wouldn't use his titles in this week junior phrase possumus Memoir has been released at details at allegations against Prince Andrew which he has always denied as well as that is renewed interesting Prince Andrew's mansion in Windsor the Royal Lodge and the last few days of revealed any number of dimensions of the relationship between the royal family and the media and we're going to work through them.

3 guests Emily Andrews is a former royal correspondent for the sun the daily mails Robert Hardman presents the podcast Queen's kings and dastardly things and here in the Studio with me is Simon Jones broadcaster former BBC news presenter and former Sky News royal correspondent Simon Robert and Emily you're all very welcome.

Look at this one step at a time first of all.

What's your analysis of how the media took on this story from Friday night Simon first.

I think the media has been reacting rather slowly two events to fact that have been presented to them and I think unusually what what's happened is since in the last few days public reaction has been overtaken pretty much everything and we now have the Bazaar picture of even politicians perhaps being ahead of the curve and realising.

Is a the story is not going to go away be there may well be more to come and see the palace has just handle this very bad in when I say the palace.

I'm just talking about the pressure suit you know that paid by the Royal family to do what the royal family wants them to do and this is at the heart of the problem, but we have I think the king who has been totally wrong footed Who at no point have the victims of this every program I hear they are the unspoken and forgotten part of this whole street.

There are a huge number of victims some of them are no longer a who are not in a position to call out the wrong has been done and what we are seeing is in Prince Andrew the tip of a horrible large iceberg, which the media has not grasped now if he is the catalyst for that, then then then he will serve a purpose but that's the only service he will give because he's a busted flash.

He's

The man who just needs to disappear and the King needs to deal with this and we're going to talk about how the media has handled the story over the years in a minute, but Emily you're a fool former royal correspondent for the sun as you store the story playing out in those first few hours on Friday and then into Saturday what do you make of how the media was handling the story there was obviously briefings happening on Friday afternoon that all options were on the table as regarding Prince Andrew Duke of York have been briefings earlier in the week.

I think in part Force Andrew to come to the negotiating table as I've been told he had to come kicking and screaming to the negotiating table to even agree to to what he did but it's late.

So you had the thought of it is the edition the BBC who are there at 6 having to go live not knowing what the same was going to be you had ITV News at 6:30 their national broadcaster and ITV

To go on live and knowing things coming but not know exactly what it's very tricky to 7 p.m.

Statement was in the words and in the name of Prince Andrew and that was interesting and what we seen over the last couple of years last year or so to you now.

This was completely confidential not be printed, but was to help reporting.

Let me rub it help reporting and it basically contain all the obvious questions you know.

What are the what is the Duchess of York new title what happened to her what happened to Princess Peach Disney in a what's how long what's the king think etc, etc, so to help journalist prepare their stories because it's a Friday a lot of the deadlines earlier on a Friday and Monday to Thursday because the Saturday papers need to be got out quickly distributed then obviously I think perhaps explains Simon's point as to why the report it was a bit limp.

My wife is not there was more analysis that came through Saturday Sunday or some more revelations in the in the Mail on Sunday another story brewing and issue a briefings building up to the statement on Friday Robert with this be done in a formal way or with the type of breed being done depend on individual journalists and they're individual contacts within the palace of multifaceted about the meeting the newspapers that they were driving exclusive Sunday weekend before we brought this to a head that was the killer email that showed that the whole Andrew defence on Newsnight 2019.

Links with Jeffrey Epstein 2010 year of the email and show that no they've been chatting with in 2011 and that was at the palace that that that that was definitely a Turning Point within the people you know we've got to do something about that the store is not going away.

What was bringing things to have a hand with the fact that the Vikings on his way to the right now to the Vatican to the start meeting with the pipe this whole thing was going to be able to stay this time to divorce themselves make as much space between him and us so that was what the media was coming to terms with Friday night, and it was it was very very big news.

I would agree.

I think you know public opinion and now.

Political opinion has gathered momentum a head of the media.

I think the palace were concerned at the time that it was a bad luck for Parliament from Govan to be having a waste precious parliamentary time to deal with the problems of one which is why they thought well if he can just get into drop the titles and not discovered that the political evidently the job isn't done but I wonder Simon McCoy a second question I had about this store is whether you think if this had happened years ago as statement of that nature would have ended the story has the medias approach to the Royal family change their we seeing evidence of that in the days that followed should have happened 5 years ago.

They should have happened straight off the Newsnight interview the palace and the Prince of Wales he was them should immediately have realised that this.

Was going to balloon and the way the Prince Prince Andrew behaved during the interview despite the fact that we know he was not entirely free with the truth, then the interview itself who desperately awful for him.

Even then we should have all realised in the media and I think the public did realise you look this is wrong them.

This has got to be sorted out.

It is amazing that he we are in 2025 and we're only now realising how how much of a wrong and he was let's bear in mind that back then of course the Queen was alive.

I think there was there was singing on the m I started as a roast the first broadcast in the sky in 1990s.

You know there was a period of difference the palace press office wheels suitable at power and Influence there was a lot of what we called my mum will recognise red carpet fever around and you know people behave in a way that while while the Queen

I think was very different I think her death and the fact that Prince Andrew's Defence of why I'm the Queen's favourite son changed a lot and I think the media should have quickly realised that that was a wrong and be needed dealing with and I think the Queen was more breathless than King Charles has been but every what about the broader point Simon's making here with 12 million to cover things up.

So I'm not sure she was that well.

We should a person that Prince Andrew denies any wrongdoing but also Emily the point I want to make it's really weather what we've seen in the last few days is evidence of a broader shift in how the media thinks it can approach stories connected to the Royal family you mean Leicester French yes, I would say that the power of the palace press office is still.

Because if you're on the royal rota for those Robert and I'm not on the royal rota, but if that's representatives of the main UK papers and made a network so BBC iTV Channel 4 and very newly GB news manager you getting precedented access and so obviously if you upset the Queen or the King's preceptory as I have done in the past you get threatened with being thrown off the rota or you get threatened.

How does how does that work for the phone call? Yes, I got it when I when I was when I Acosta during 2020.

There was a engagement in the Prince Harry was during the next it go see ations.

I have a temerity rose to ask a question myself and ITV's were like I said.

Question you you please and there was a security and I shouted housing associations.

Give your family that's all.

I asked me If Looks Could Kill I would have dropped down dead on the Green Green Grass of the Buckingham Palace and then the Queen's taxi private and then he told me both to tell me off and so you got shouted out in that Circumstance Robert do you think the shouting is still going on how does the Post Office at the palace operate these days at the absolute royal Media relations it was fast.

98000 seat capacity Stadium at the palace press office and I said this is ridiculous.

It's Olympic Stadium and very sorry pal.

I mean things when when the Queen had a golden wedding anniversary service and Westminster Abbey the only people in their relationship has been a lot worse.

I think it's his work and my kids broadly.

I'd say cordial in certainly not over friendly in the timer.

That's when you get an Andrew story you know the palace has got it's a head in his hands nose is the under press that I've been driving the Mail on Sunday in particular that picture of you know the picture.

That is still doing around on an hourly basis.

Virginia giuffre with with with with any of you haven't been for Fleet Street Franklin story would never have come to life.

Let's let's not forget the news night which I think was absolutely story that began with the benefit of the real rating system wasn't in.

Are they back then with fuel stations fuel fuel lots of things one.

It was access to the royals themselves on and the possibility however thinly veiled was it might actually get them to be with one of them one thing.

What's changed now is United Prince William at going to using Levy on Apple TV and giving interviews directly to.

Audiences bypassing system completely I think that must be ringing severe alarm bells with them back in Palace press office because of you can do that.

What is the need of the rotor system but does it Emily also that does it ring alarm bells with in newsrooms though Emily in the those newsrooms which place people on the royal rota perhaps I thinking is it? Is it worth it.

I think the royal family is still of immense interest to millions of viewers listeners readers and so the rotor is still useful in covering engagements the royals in terms of getting an actual message out.

I think it I think that yes, there's some sense of kind of kompromat in a sense of your royal correspondent.

We don't want to upset the palace too much on the other hand you do get back so it's always act Roberts right in the fact that it has been Fleet Street been driving as pressure and I did I did see some of the briefing last week to you know selected royal correspondence as putting pressure.

In the public domain on Andrew to just get as far as to the security did and I said that they wouldn't be Parliament get it is getting involved if it hadn't been for all the depress Simon also right.

I think that William has definitely made it very clear that while he tolerates the rotor to get out his message on you know whatever that may be sure which is coming on the rota will go to Brazil climate change mental health homelessness.

He wants to think his own way and I don't think I'll ever see Prince William sit down with the BBC and ITV again ideas about the future of all the temperatures you know the King is in health.

We we don't know of you know when Prince William may be called upon to replace him, but I think he has very clear out.

I think one of the things he will want to have sorted out by the time he becomes king is his uncle problem the Prince Andrew probably resolving and I think the media is now understanding that the public appetite for this to be sorted and whether that means parliamentary action then perhaps that's required, but certainly talking to the palaces has made fast is the way Prince Andrew's behave this was a voluntary decision by Prince Andrew to remove the Duke of York he's still technically of the Duke of York and I feel my needs to change the public needs to see that other people have taken seriously I'm not forgetting the victims of something Prince Andrew knows about it and help with the you know he if he wants to come clean with the media that one thing but there are others there cos of the FBI has got any of you quite like to talk to him as well.

Just just to go to help with the victims and as you describe the nature of this story all three of you and making reference of course to the Royal Court

From all of the different news organisations in the country, but I wonder as you also look at this Robert whether there is in Newton's now.

Not just royal Correspondents wanted to cover the story lots of other reporters with different specialisms and was seeing this story move across museums and Away the perhaps are the Royal stories.

Don't be multidimensional and I think back against The Separation of the prince and princess of Wales and by the way, I mean you've got other animals.

Seen to be believed that there's no point you're talking about the relationship between the media and the royal family and we've been talking about tone and and the issue of difference as well.

I feel that we shouldn't go any further in this discussion without playing a clip of Si during his time on BBC News because this when I'm very very heavily viral.

It's worth.

It's worth listening to it because I would like to ask you afterwards Simon what happened in terms of relation between you the BBC and the royal family, but let's see the clip in question.

Just got this coming from Kensington Palace to just got through their royal highnesses the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge delighted to confirm expecting a baby in April now that she was pregnant back in September and I thought she was around to 3 months pregnant.

April so playing a Diaries get the time booked off because that's what I'm doing so that got very heavily shared Simon lots of people enjoyed it.

I just wonder whether the the royal family enjoyed it.

Did you hear from them? I think the royal family enjoy the BBC the BBC the parts of them that was so define I later heard the the Prince Prince William was fine with it and when I was outside st.

Mary's Hospital in Paddington when George was born and I said that you know the news here is there is no news again with the BBC upset with me William and I spoke to him actually about it.

He was very happy.

So you know I wasn't like other broadcasters speculating on the level of dilation and other stuff so you're right.

I was actually fairly and finally Emily if I could come to you as this story keeps on folding help us understand the different points of contact between the royal family and a big Newsroom such as the one at.

And all the mail how many different lines of communication with their be and how often would those lines of communication be being used the time like this 80s.

I mean certainly one of the work tax and the genus on here now.

It's the times.

He he wasn't biggest fan.

Shall we say of the royal family but he saw the need to make contacts and he and private sectors have breakfast with various private secretaries the current editor The Sun Victorian has always loves royal news and so she has made it her job to know all the press officers the heads of press the private sector and indeed.

I remember doing a job with once in Northern Ireland with Prince William and she came along and she she she has an off the camera chat with Prince William so I think it's depend on me the editor of the paper or of the

Organisation will be more hands-on the numbers but yes answer your question members of the royal family and newspaper editors and TV shows TV using obviously do me do I contact thank you very much for all three of you very interesting to get your perspective that was Emily Andrews Robert Hardman and Simon McCoy and as mentioned at the beginning of the program if you want a PR spective on the story you can hear when it hits the fan along Edition not just a 50 minutes to get on radio for a longer edition on BBC sounds weird course you can find all editions of the media show to nap of course turn this have all sorts of different ways that they go about finding stories.

We've just been hearing about some of them back has settled on one of them and more unusual route to Gathering stories Pulitzer Prize winning war correspondent and the last 12 years.

He's walked in the region of 16000 miles.

All Around the World in search of story.

part of a project called the Out of Eden walk, which is retracing the ancient parts of human migration out of Africa and pull your join us from Alaska welcome to the media show supposed to be here do tell us more about where you are and why you're there so the project is to follow pathways of migration the first human, so basically discovered the world on foot we back and Stone Age so I can sell scientist at apologies archaeologist universes and I said if you were me and you're walking across contents of corridors, and just so the current consensus is the out of Africa Theory before kind of dispersed out of Africa back 70 to 120000 years ago some people wanting to Europe somewhere to get into Cardiff more Eurasian to Eastwood and they walked or paddle across the North Pacific or the Bering land bridge in Tralee

Ending up at Woodside to see as won the last corners the Continents were the last Horizons if you will humans maintenance the tip of South America so I'm in Glasgow have just arrived not long ago to begin.

What is the final phase of this very long a multi-year recording journey on foot now.

I'll be spending the next 3 years walking towards the Argentina Chile and you call it a reporting journey and I know that phrase because you were describing what you been doing.

I was thinking is this primarily in size in travel and Discovery which has a second react you are passing on or is the primary purpose stories?

You know it's it's a bit of both send and I must say that when I speak to you over and M contact me or I'll speak to students were they do tend to focus on kind of the adventure of the nature of the nature walk near Crossgar and it's right for the after day week at week's year after year and I get it but the premise the foundation is journalism.and call slow journalism writing defined as basically Mersey tunnel syndrome was a bit ground-truth the big stories of Our Time by basically moving through them very slowly and human-based about an hour talking to the Ordinary People Who inhabit these headlines.

So this is a great privilege.

Are you looking for particular types of stories or are you open to sing that piques your interest? It's both and there's this wonderful Yang that comes with kind of getting off airplanes my night as you mentioned as a foreign correspondent.

I was based in Africa

Newspaper for years I covered everything from migration to politics to economics I covered you know the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan where was where there's nothing wrong with that? I'm not I'm not all that in terms of the media.

I think you know we can you know I'd use the technology that gives me breaking headlines to that I started to to wonder if I was missing something right all these aeroplanes as you know living in aeroplanes going from country to country hotspot hotspot.

What was what was passing underneath the aircraft after that night saying Central Africa or Middle East how many thousands of millions of stories are being told simply because in a rush to get to the story of the day right.

So it's a comedy of the research found that kind of homework.

Then you report a word about ancient region of what the big issues are could be you know what are quality in India could be.

Biodiversity in places like near me and then a military coup that erupted along my path combining that with spontaneity and this is the strengthening of the project the great Delight is that as you know probably from your own experience some of the best stories in the fuel or accidental and when you're walking you bump into a I know you know exaggerated but it's basically everybody needs a potential story that could be a micro story that has global residence right.

That's kind of the model this project as you're describing this.

I'm thinking about some of the journalistic practicalities of of taking the conversations that you're having and the people that your meeting and turning them into it's a journalistic content people can consume my first question that is what kids are you carrying? Yeah? I mean it's basically a pneumatic 40 right and in I am limited by what I can carry.

Rucksack I tried to keep the entire weight my rucksack below about 10 or 12 kg to do that except for some expeditionary sections of the trail of really cute colour survival gear attention all that stuff the beauty of this of the Rowling if you follow the ancient people who first have it is that it is an inhabited landscape today think about it.

You know what that is really good Africa laptop.

I used to be caring a satellite phone.

It's not that necessarily more they want to become so wire notebooks recording devices.

Yeah.

It's a mobile office.

It sounds like we let you go you're in Alaska at the moment.

I wonder what one story you found there as you've walked walkthrough Alaska that you've already passed on to your audience.

Just lifting the veil is it worth of this last phase the new world see the first story has not yet appeared, but I basically I'm looking at the climate crisis to The Prisoner what's happening at the erlicheer and the last 6-weeks walking about 600 km long and isolated coastline where glaciers are melting in the end because of that the Landscape is actually lifting out of the ground changing the course of changing the ecology of salmon, runs.

It's all very complicated kind of a geography of the future.

If you will it sounds like it just for let you go where can people find your journal in the stories of the ordinary walk.

You've been on all of this stuff is collecting arises skin going to be about a million words that you can't imagine.

It's like an end of it.

That's what I'm going to do when you reach out of the day, but basically Audi walk.com all the multimedia storytelling is there thank you very much for Johnny isn't any.

Celibate speaking to us from Alaska next on the media show let's turn to one of the key issues of our time really not just within Media within politics and culture and many other things besides it we all get information from and to what degree we trust that information.

Please a questions that we definitely rest with the four on the media show not least with journalists and editors in the news in to respond well to the challenges of this situation of course the media needs to understand.

How all of our relationships with information is changing what we trust.

Why do we trust it? Why do we not trust it as the case may be in neutral is going to help us with this is UK director of more in common.

Which is a think tank welcome to the media show you this new report truth trust and tribes in a new media age.

Just first of all helps understand the parameters of what you were trying to get into this was a report that we produced alongside.

Railing median what we were trying to get under the skin off with this is not just sort of where people getting their news from which platforms they are we using but also the different levels of trust that people have in those different sources of information and actually trying to match up with the usage soapy likelihood to consult a particular source matched up, how much they trusted that particular source and actually we found was there's quite a bit of a mismatch there, so you'll be pleased to know that radio is one of the most trusted sources of information for the public as a whole but it's actually as you will know as well lots of me radio is suffering from declining listenership as well.

So very definitely a mismatch between what people say they want a people certainly said they're going to place an increasing Premium on.

The bacon Trust but they're not necessarily consuming it so in other words whether something is trustworthy is not the always the primary factor that decide what type of media content return to yeah absolutely and of course as you can imagine one of the things that we found in the report is that we are somewhat divide it in terms of which source of information.

We trust I mean for me.

I thought one of the most stock findings was that the majority of people so 56% think that there is no single truth events in the world and of course if you're a media source trying to you know convey accurate unbiased information about the public already starting from the point where they think we don't think there is one single universal truth can make that quite difficult and as you can imagine.

There's quite a star cage divide on lots of this so whilst.

Generations are more likely to say that they trust journalist working for large news organisations such as the BBC actually if you look at gen Z so the youngest generation they actually hi Annette trusted independent journalist who posted content directly on social media.

They think that is more raw and unfiltered and therefore more likely to be true.

Am I going to get some of the implications of your findings for the news industry in the moment, but of course I'll be people listening to you thinking ok? Well, if this is the case.

This is what you found.

Why is that the case? What are the driving factors that take to a point where significant number of people in this country? Don't think there is a single version of the truth of drivers have that I think the first is actually a little bit sort of chicken and egg in the sense that you know as we move not just to a multi-channel but to a multi-platform world people can to some degree.

Into their own version of the truth and want you here on a podcast about something and no like the covid pandemic might be quite different to what you hear on the BBC might be quite different to what you reading your local community Facebook group which we found was a growing area.

Where people were getting their news from and of course the sort of in the room underpinning all of this is the growth in the use of AI as a source of information and news we found that people are a almost as likely to use AI tools as they are a printed newspaper to find information about what's going on in the world, but if you look at gen Z again that younger generation is likely to use AI tools as they are to use a newspaper to find out what's going on in the world and I've got one final question for you on that then which is do they trust the

Tool and the information that it provides in the same degree that they trust news organisations, or is there a difference there is very clearly a gap interestingly again despite the fact that half of young Britons expect use AI more in the coming years when you ask people about their top priorities when it comes to media use you know the next few years actually avoided avoiding ai-generated content is a monster public stop over a third of people say that top priority will be avoiding ai-generated content again.

You've got a little bit of a mismatch people like that sort that ability to communicate can try and get information and be more discursive at the same time.

They're saying their priorities avoiding content which is AI generated a lot to consider Luke thank you very much for taking us through it that.

Trail talking through some of the findings from Maureen Commons latest report listening to Luke was need Burns senior analyst in tech and media Enders analysis is with me here in the media show Studio I'm in all of the videos incredibly relevant to the strategic decisions that are not just news organisations, but all media organisations are having to take absolutely and I think Media organisations are facing attention here.

They want to embrace AI on the one hand that means both exploring what it can do for their own operations.

How they can create maybe more innovative formats that will dry and those difficult to reach and also on the distribution side.

How can they make sure that they're news product of feeding into AI news offerings where is appropriate for that to happen.

They have a bit of control over how to treat well.

It's monetize perhaps but at the same time as we've heard readers.

Don't necessarily want lots of AI in their news, so that is always.

Have to be a very considered decision anytime they're talking about bringing AI summaries on news articles anything like that you have to think I haven't received and we have a lot of these surveys coming out on on trust in the media is used in a number.

That's come out and I think it's difficult to define Trust to work out exactly what what's been going out with some of these questions you mention the fact that news organisations have decisions to make about if they're willing to supply some of their content to AA operations potentially for money and return.

What are the available options for news organisations what forms can those type of deal take seeing a real in the market hear some of these licencing girls that we saw all right at the Beginning ru pretty crude.

There's a few different types of licencing so initially we saw just money being handed over a lot of that was.

With the original training data are so with any AI product you've got the AI model into which loads of test material was fad and there's a question on whether it should be paid for that material.

That is also kind of second stage for this and that's why I think really more of the ongoing value is Phineas publishers and that's where you got an AI product launched onto the market kind of it.

I would buy that original model but it involves ongoing access to news publisher content with loads of different forms of that.

There's something like you know Google's AI shoujo refusing those similar products from other competitors and that's script content in the same way that search engines always have but offers up that content as part of a summary up top monetisation there isn't really happening, but you see you know some of the chatbot functions, where is it own kind of AI platform where to destination that is a little bit more licencing associated with those kinds of products.

What about the idea that I've seen some.

Is pushing the day can provide technology to content creators and a news organisations when the the scraping bots arrive to look at their content play some software you can say no you're not getting this and this week's ideal that kind of Teck is really important singing loads of those Solutions arriving on the market at the moment.

We've got loads of providers cloudplayer have have a solution told that have the number of are there providers offering interventions at different stages of that process so you can you know you can block access with lot of this tech and that's the most important thing if you want to read 50 licencing my cat hear the news in she needs to be able to restrict access to its content in order to be able to demand a price for it, so that's the business models if you like to monetize content if you are willing to work with AI companies as another separate but related issue, which is the quality of the news related information that AI bot to provide.

How do you study by the BBC and the EU published today assessed? How AI assistants answer questions about news and current affairs it found that 45% of all AI answers had at least one floor and 31% of responses showed serious sourcing problems that doesn't feel like it's good enough and I think it's very important this research continues and it's very important that the news industry takes a reactive role in working out what the problems are here.

I mean it would be easy to sort of put your head in the sand and say these problems are not of our creation.

This is a tech company that is coming and is used in an inappropriate way.

I don't think that's going to be helpful in the long run.

I think the news industry.

We need to influence the Tech Industry at this stage set standards about what you no good after beating looks like what the eyebrows we need to have in place to do that not necessarily.

I mean I think there's there's pressure on his tech companies you can just on the pr side and also they'll be keen to engage in some.

Is it's not necessarily malicious is a general purpose technologies right they have a huge number of different applications.

They probably on thinking that hard about news when their lunch and his father is a problem and they ought to be one last thing I want to ask you about before the end of the program because really open AI is pushing a lot of different directions at the moment and it's just launched the new ai-powered web so which is very much parking at stanks on Google Lorna because Google runs chrome.

What do you make that announcement? It's really interesting.

I think we're seeing these companies try to create real prod set alarm people to integrate AI into what I actually doing on the web everyday some of the chapel application to sign Italy you couldn't really do all that much you can have a conversation you can maybe find some information, but it doesn't really unlock the full potential of that kind of technology to be involved in how you're making purchases or whenever I think it's really interesting move.

I think it could take off quite quickly it will be interesting to watch.

Google respond because Google already controls most of that browser market and it has a mass of date advantage.

It's almost on the back for the first time.

It's only about meant we are having to launch products in response to competitors for the first time in its history.

It will be interesting to see how quickly we started to see more of these AI features being fed into Google prizes.

Already seeing someone if someone opened up this browser and that would it look completely different to browsers that we are currently use or is this just an Evolution it's just an Evolution for now and I think some of the sort of more sophisticated agent product are pretty decent on it.

They're only being launched in a really limited capacity so I think before it's completely you know it'll be awhile for somebody game-changing for it reshapes the product and highly we appreciate that sneak Burns senior analyst at tech and media at Enders analysis and leave it off final guest on today's edition of the media show you can find all of our auditions on BBC sounds but from now from here as bye-bye.

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