Read this: Should The BBC Pay Trump? (And 101 Other Questions)

Hello 12 the media club on your oyster Matt Deegan in the club today at it was one scandal too many for Tim Davie but where does his departure leave the BBC this crucial time and which town to the exact with their take on the role for the chief creative officer for BBC TV Patrick young and the Telegraph James Warrington newspaper broke the DJ a story joined us in the studio on the show ITV is up for sale well at least the broadcasting on is our panel discuss whether Sky is ready to snap it up between YouTube Disney as frustrating us football fans and then the audio Network Media we consume all the news that's fit to TiK ToK that's all happening in this edition of the media club come on him to see both Patrick welcome and for the first time in person which is good to see James the first time here at welcome you when you got a membership card.

Who do you like to bring is your

One today, I think there's only one real choice for me this week and that's my colleague Gordon Rayner who has broken the series of stories about the BBC that have been in the media.

Not just the media news about the general news for last week and a half they both sides of the Atlantic and regardless of your views on the BBC or how is the issue which I'm sure will cover I mean it's a real old fashioned scoop.and fallouts anybody just beginning I think so got to take your hat off to order the news and Pat's would you like to add as your plus one this week? I had a few the frontrunners that Tim Davie the ultimate faithful.

Yes that sounds like Stephen Lambert who's got another hit show with celebrity race across the world off the back of traitor people forget 18 years.

He was all stood from his production company over a BBC editing scandal at the bus.

I'll go with Theresa why CEO of RTS and now she's standing down done the credible things are especially the mini MBA but also they work she's done to through bursaries to bring more people into the media.

So Teresa was everybody in Cambridge as well as in London and the reach the regional offices as well and they are they are safe space for most people to come and convenient just but the Works you've done a specialist engineers reach to people that maybe not don't see that carry on television is them and also helping those with mid-career and rescale I think we will stand the test of time and both very welcome in the club this week at the moment.

It's BBC crisis again.

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Komedia club, so what can BBC do to mollified trump and defend its wider trust in journalism at Patrick you said this week at the BBC should apologise for the Edit which they should have done in the last but not one else yet should they do anything else? Or is that it wouldn't do anything else other than apologise, but I shouldn't pay that man a dime and there are some in the BBC Who think they're very clever clever and that they'll dress it up perso charity payment or will pay some fees.

No they shouldn't legalese not entitled to anything and also think Marley and editorial is not inclined he's not entitled to anything and just because he's been able to shake down and number of Us networks in the BBC were to bend the knee on this one.

I would lose all of their trust and credibility at home and Abroad and they would lose their staff pretty good at taking down Media organisations in the US we seen payments from ABC and CBS they decided to be on the right side of him BBC it's true.

I mean there's quite a long history of legal action that mean I'm not a crunch the numbers proportionately on how many been successful but only recently has you say ABC CBS just the head of the Paramount take over it's well-known that you deleted just man Donald Trump I think in a lot of circumstances in and sent me in this case with the BBC there's a lot of grandstanding to it there a blaster is it a serious legal threat I mean I don't think so in this case and then you could say the ABC one wasn't pretty much everything everybody said was very easily dependable.

I think they're a different situation.

What US broadcasters do I don't think it's a good idea for us broadcasters to be to be couch.

To be paying legal settlements with the president, but that is the US market where there are far more vulnerable to regulation through the FCC which is there by Brendan Carr who is in trump Acolyte the BBC is not regulated in the US a minute has operations there is trying to expand there every month very interesting point but fundamentally it's a British broadcaster is regulated by off and I green Pat that I think that's not something that they should be getting into I think an apology is definitely required but you go down and quite a slippery slope if you start making pay whatever size 22 anyone who has an issue with your preparation.

I don't think I should do that the party if you're a BBC journalist in America those Whitehouse hard passes may not last very long time is to use a bit of a baby in a bit of a bully and if you can't see them he could do anything from taking away White House passes to declare enemies of the state and taken away there.

Who's putting 10% tariff on British goods? I mean the man could do anything but that's another reason why you don't appease him because he let me come back for more play.

The everyone's been talking about in the media this weekend wider across across the country and world the BBC director-general and had news resigning.

What was Tim Wright to go was indeed job was he pushed start with it? I mean I think I think from from what we're starting to hear it sounds as if there's his own decision-making involved it sounds as if you know you had met her he lost the backing of the board but ultimately he decided that it it just wasn't position for hemorrhoid he had enough and let's be honest.

It's just asking BBC director-general really difficult you're managing this massive organisation across news and entertainment.

Incredibly fragmented world you probably all things to all people in Britain mean why you having to justify the value of a licence fee to British taxpayers so either no no that's all so well.

I mean relative to other organisations to me.

He's not been badly director-general of you badly, but you could easily have a much quieter much more lucrative lying now elsewhere, but no I think I think that's probably a combination of Factors in terms of him leaving.

I think when you have a new story like the one or a new Cycle like with scene where everyday there is a new story of new Revelation and it feels mediaspace.

It's really difficult to come.

I think there's also questions which maybe we'll get on to read about BBC's response or lack of response so no overall.

I think it was probably the right probably the right decision.

And there is probably a little bit of jumping into a discussion.

We say no they didn't need to go.

Why did you go then? Why did you choose now's not the time reading through the washing machine already with all of those sorts of things I do believe it would have been his own decision and eating well enough to know that if he says it's his decision.

You should you should take that at face value.

I do feel fat and I still can't understand if the news borders ready to make an apology 7 Days earlier.

Why that apology didn't happen who stopped it and why so this is this is the news division apologise nutrition board say that we should apologise apology but for some reason the board of the BBC have let them make it why I didn't let them make it and who was involved in stopping them from my idea that a significant and well running rated head of news.

Can't make an apology after division and

Is bizarre she then least position and it's not granted and it is only not granted but then there's this week long vacuum and yeah, if there was playback governance and management and the BBC to be easier to understand, but there isn't so I don't know why she was blocked from making that apology and that's something out the selectmen.

You will get to the bottom of put them once I didn't make the apology they all said while we're waiting for the comprehensive response to the committee.

I saw the response and the response is pretty comprehensive and it does address actually had on the point within the so-called secret.co.

It wasn't a dirty.

I wasn't at secret but why did that take 7-days to pull together you know I share our University and in Cardiff and we have to do everything by then, but it doesn't look like to do that's why I do not understand why it took 7 Days to wish you the comprehensive response and so they left a vacuum into work.

Please have a actors stepped and I think probably at the end of the day if they were demanding Deborah's cos I think they probably would demanding Deborah's had an apology isn't enough there needs to be a head and double was imagine disinclined to offer her head and Tim may have said if it if she goes I go and so that letter a week of how do we get through this and that might be that my guess it is a guess.

It is a sort of thing he would do it.

Just at the only just found out for his exactly back to me back to you but for an edit in a film that had no complaints at the time was only discovered through the BBC's and editorial checks to lose your DG and head of news is bizarre that we just panic or something else that the real question then I can people try and get to the bottom of now there are issues that I think in the in the governance.

BBC we discussed about the construction of the board and how easy it is to make decisions that level I think it was it was a fundamental issue, and I think it's say whether you know happy come out on on the first day and said something then apologise then whether it would have gone away.

I think probably not giving them anymore.

Sorry to come out, but they could have got in front of it and they would have been able to control a little bit better in terms of what's going on at has been report about a sort of boardroom Saga a rebellion.

I find it quite difficult to believe so this many senses around the role of Robbie Gibb BBC board member he then went to of Theresa May's government has a pretty strong for you to be happy to talk about bought the Jewish Chronicle I think as well.

So if you had a GB news.

Boris Johnson to The Beautiful You definitely right wing flavours that would be around the fact that he individually would be able to control the direction of the BBC bored as one person on that bored of 10 to 12 people a very see me competent champion information who you would have thought would be able to exert his influence their for the push back that would be suspicious new Robbie done pretty well in getting into the new sub-committee, which had some staff members and advises that were seemingly milk and he appointed or involvement with so he was managing to potentially BBC support to say he's price of narrative in that BBC News committee.

Constantly basically have the strong be to drive a view with cheese talked about publicly about you challenging the BBC's in Portugal to that is a lot of these situations and I don't use the same argument to argue against the idea that there's institutional bias in the BBC I think with a lot of these situations are the idea of some overarching conspiracy tends to be a little bit far-fetched in the real world doesn't work like that.

It's a lot messier and people don't sit there steam coming out with ground plans, but I mean another thing I'd say to that is we are now left in a situation where the entire structure of BBC's governments including its board is under quite intense scrutiny.

Where is the recorder inside the BBC for Robin Gibb to to be removed from his position? You know if that were to happen if this had been his scheme whole time then.

I think you could say it backfired someone.

So that's that's why I'm sceptical about that.

I mean having not been in the room myself.

I could not tell you what those discussions.

What was going on in discussions, but I don't believe it could be Gibb days are ok.

See you Tim Davie was the ultimate faithful is Robbie give the personality.

Just don't believe one man on his own in Estonia board a board like that will always look if it can to achieve consensus, but an issue of this important to there was just one board member digging in order mind ahead on the plate aardema.

I demand the having a plate that are a competent chair would deal with that with that closed it down now, so I don't believe it could be wrong, but I don't understand have I got to the situation that they ended up with I think it's very striking that Tim use the word weaponize in his Farewell

What's the temperature in the market you pick his words very carefully that could have been his invitation to us to look at what's really going on at that level because if there is a constant drum beat of editorial challenge.

From a particular perspective which the incredible thing about some ears response was that everything I mean where the Telegraph of very clever was dropping issue every day here today.

It's the Arabic service the think that the BBC response which was comprehensive and they did see the whole of the so-called dossier responded to all of those points and then you can get into it was the response but it was all there and if that had come out on day 1 or Day 2 it would have taken the wind along with an apology about the trump edit.

It would take in the Wind totally out of the cells and the Telegraph was then going to do but that didn't happen and that is a fundamental failure of governance and so that's it's a door.

And my concern is that this board which is clearly ribbon is not going to select the temporary DJ and blue DJ so we can't deal with the dysfunction before that happens.

Does every possibility is going to happen again or

Have they got agenda as well your colleagues in it? So it's arrived centre paper true.

I think there has been missed in instinctive response that you know this was politically motivated.

I think they're always going to be people who won't have to go to BBC whatever reason I think with this story.

I think where it's coming from.

Is is the important thing this was a anyone what we going to call it a document drawn up by an advisor to their standards committee and that is exactly the kind of person or one of the people that the BBC newsreader needs to be listening to you now.

This is not people shouting from the sidelines simply trying to do the BBC down that this is people on the inside with genuine concerns and I think on that basis.

You know it's absolutely not just a story but a very important story and then I just a little bit cos he isn't on the inside he was an advisor you actually APR

Rhonda PR4 man has done 15 years.

There's a very very good piece by David aaronovitch, which I think may have been in the Observer and is now his substat out looking at the actual dossier cause lots of people because one of things like this world.

We live in is it's behind a paywall so David actually, when is it the letter to the dcms David that she did a dissection of the Dacia you know The Impossible dossier first of all some news reveal today actually edited the bits of speech that it complain the BBC edited so it said the BBC went from here to hear when it should when the very next line was the following and actually the very next wasn't the following the very next line was for lying to trump talking about the lead to fight and not having a country again.

So he talked about the use of the Express

Reproductive rights in the BBC's American coverage as liberal leaning you know he promotes a group called history reclaimed who are right.

I wear in the culture Wars territory of this too much discussion not enough prayers for the Empire and too much discussion about slavery, so he's not a neutral figure and he was a neutral figure and he didn't write a little report but he was appointed by them to advise if we get into that sort of discussion and then who can we trust no no no, I have no problem the BBC said we need to be challenged.

Maybe they should be changed from the left as well as from the right but we need to have people in to look at output and challenging fair enough, but they shouldn't then pretend that they don't have their own biases and that the idea put them in the Telegraph didn't look at the report and say actually if you look at the report the use of the word love affair with that.

Definitely a trump talking point which the author is used as it's just lingua Franca so the Telegraph today mate when you look at the postcode for there are some things in here which I'm not have to look it at source and they didn't make it to the Guardian night, then take it to the Telegraph so I take it for what it is and yeah.

There's little to be going from arguing about semantics of the reporter house other than to say that this guy was not a neutral arbiter of truth and we haven't heard from him yet, but I think we're going to him and a select committee soon and of course.

He's always welcome to come and meet you.

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Hi, this is Jake from the enter in today's digital Road compliance regulations are changing concert in Ireland customer tries is never mattered more than that helps companies get compliant fast and stay secure the most advanced AI automation and continuous monitoring out there, so we're here started going for your first tattoo or ISO 27001 were growing Enterprise managing vendor rest Theatre make quick easy and scalable and not just saying that because I work here get started at 4, so you totally about the the border pointing the DJ on acting TG who who would want to take this job and who should take this job well.

I think they're probably a couple of coming at the internal candidate might by think and 10 likes on technically true, but Charlotte more recently the left-hand pictures.

Very well respected figure in time me that there will be a lot of support for her.

I think you could look to other figures in the end of the likes of Jane Turton and all three Media producer of the traitors.

She was until recently linked with the Channel 4 chief executive role and now is no longer which is interesting in itself there a handful of other figures and then you could look at it was previously although she's now gone into another job superstruct sexy broadcast job it pays well, but it was awesome maybe some people that surprise move for her.

Yeah, I think so on I think for all the reasons.

We've already discussed you have a song with a really passionate love for Public Service Broadcasting it is a difficult job and is a thankless job and you really need that.

I think the other way of looking at this is true.

Love.

Sager and saying well done needs to be more to the news chops at the BBC because news ultimate ears is what's brought down.

I mean most of the time.

So does it need more of an elevated position there which means I have to throw a Philips is a name has been he's been raised and James Harding obviously now talk to bring a little bit of a pitch for the job.

That's an interesting perspective and then I suppose before I let other people in there as well does actually the role need to be split.

Wish I can get the interesting discussion because with one director-general.

You are over saying everything is enormous business tax fairpoint taxpayer-funded business, but also commercial business while also dealing with negotiation FM

Everything so should there be another role B carved out that oversees editorial that's that's an interesting question.

I think we'll be raised you lots of buses in your time there who would be good at this time Thompson with DJ and they have Mark Byford as deputy and my food.

I think my background much more than Mark Thompson themselves as a background.

I want to be interesting things about how TV is involved.

Is that if you got all the way back to John birt.

These are people who started in news and then moved across to television and then moved into seem quite the same Mark Thompson the same NOW TV and news almost two parallel tracks, so it's very rare that you get a candidate who's got experience of both anything if one person that has his Jay Hunt name of been mentioned Channel 4 and Channel 5 people forget band.

Now a big job at Apple in in Europe has Kevin Backhurst former head one of the heads within BBC News Ofcom for a number of the Now DJ RTE I think the number of the other I mean I do think you need to have a deputy director-general and that person is probably either the editor-in-chief news reports into colourful money reasons was that was all the rest of it, but I think you there is there's been a cost it because the DJ job is enormous.

You know you're under the 6 billion dollar entity so and if you can create a structure of a deputy director-general is also head the editor-in-chief the allows you to have a director general who can have a much broader range of skills and experiences.

I'm probably that's what the BBC will need going into this next era.

Would you recommend someone take the job but someone's gotta do it? So what are recommended myself and like-minded people will support them because I think those jobs are very lonely actually and I think they need to know that people have good well, and that isn't it? That's on left and right everything a lot of people see the value of the BBC will support them before all of this you been working on the British Broadcasting challenge as a way to sort of ratio questions for the government as part of licence fee renewal, use this is all happened.

Is it the best time to learn something of the word document about renewing the BBC in a tartan for the next period we lost her back to you two weeks ago and get people to notice to make this current and and and then this happened.

In some ways, I wish it wasn't the document itself wasn't so current but fundamentally we're at a very particular moment as we look at this charter renewal the richest man in the world own pretty much all of the platforms that we used to find share discover content Elon Musk and xrp Twitter Larry Ellison and CBS and will be on the board of tiktok Q&A and I'll call me it's data partner Mark Zuckerberg angel controls Facebook Instagram and WhatsApp Jeff bezos and Amazon Amazon Prime Amazon web services which the BBC iPlayer sits on and the Washington Post then you've got Sergey Brin and Larry page in between them on YouTube owner control YouTube and Google so all of the big platform through which content is disseminated shared discovered around.

what's American individuals some of whom are Magor some of whom Zuckerberg when trump was elected got rid of all moderation for example content moderation and bezos reportedly paid 30 million dollars to do a documentary on melania trump so

the BBC's the only bought that we have that stands against all of that because they're also consolidating into more traditional media has bought CB is natural by CNN one of us, so there's a consolidation happening on the other side of the pond which is going to force remake news content How It's Made how it's shared who can access it BBC stand apart from that as a publicly-owned public service broadcast at scale and be at scale is also important because all the survey showed that even today only 80% of people engage with the BBC least once a week still the most trusted news provider in the UK second class, please provide you in the USA after the Weather Channel so we need a strong BBC in this charter is a chance to do that our proposals were make the BBC

The BBC forever charter the idea every 10 years even a discussion about should the BBC continue or not is is really mad we don't do that with the NHS and other public near national institutions get the BBC forever charter and instead spend time on a 10-year licencing agreement about what the BBC will do what services will provide and what audience is it will speak make fully independent the appointment process to for people to the board of the BBC so have an independent appointments process just that we do with public service announcements the parliamentary approval they prove by the people to come through dcms select committee.

Not the executive insulate the BBC from the exact at the moment.

It's too close to the executive Lisa Nandy of a prime minister put people on the board of the BBC One That Got to stop if you want to protect the BBC for the long term.

We believe you should be founded the score with an intellectual £5 to work out what the funding mechanism should be but it needs to retain the universal principle in needs to be universal broadcaster it also to take on an obligation for dealing with missing disinformation, so that was a potpourri of things at the BBC need to do go forward and we were sitting anything.

I'm going to tell me about this happened and memory issues.

We talked about this mess that we have now.

I think any government would give it to independence always a difficult why isn't it and we see you and me different Media organisations in and trying to kind of split up ownership from editorial control and Andy sort of firewalls.

They get put in place, but you know I can be got around and it's things can we get on paperback but hard and practise.

Oh yeah, it would be interesting to see kind of how how that works.

How would work in in practice.

I agree with the principal absolutely and I keep

BBC away from from political interference, I think can only be a good thing I thinking in terms of service guarantee that the long-term future BBC which I agree is very poor thing.

I think there's a risk that it falls in becomes something of a sort of charity case almost and the defenders of the BBC themselves into this situation, where where it is constantly sort of this defensive mindset of Bunker mentality of kind of like all know what this is why the BBC is good and I think the BBC Three hour to prove to people to show two people at wired is good and why it is worth paying for and I think Trust is basically at the heart of that you know I think BBC does great things sometimes.

It's news coverage, but if it loses public.

What is that party because in a modern Media environment digital media environment the people who think it's dreadful that are unreachable here.

They said the system which even with the BBC's sort of firepower and evidence of the impartiality of the pretty much as possible or programming.

They can't communicate that I think that's definitely of atomisation that we've seen that makes things so much more difficult and it is actually a major driving force of why the BBC is struggling financially as well at the moment, but I don't have the answers on onto the how you fix it for BBC if I did I be going for that might help myself, but I think I need to be the young man but now I I just I just think that it needs to be a I should have positive proactive campaign that proves the worth of the BBC and and does not.

Inadvertently perhaps you're putting this position that it stinks while you know we need to prop up this organisation because it can't watch it in face and that situation.

I don't think you want to go down that I think the challenge of the 10-year charter is it forces people into the first we got to keep it and then we can talk about what we're going to do with it if we knew we were going we could all talk about how it can be better, but it start with her.

I mean I think one of these pictures of they said will the BBC survive to the next charter and you know I mean by David that even a question and it wasn't actually thought that but no I mean we don't want the BBC also be until special motors TV on the BBC doing the stuff that nobody else wants to do we also don't want the BBC to be like PBS in America when I worked in America running a cable network I Remember the First Time

Eyesore on PBS wasn't to raise money for children in need it was always money for TVs and this is what public broad daylight black so we have something really special here.

Yeah.

Ok mate cocked up and sometimes it popped up really badly and it needs to get better at identifying the mistakes apologising for them and what does apologise and making good and sharing that they learnt but we lose a lot if the BBC is diminished because none of those techpros give her Monkeys what's going on in Elon Musk to be overthrown the next election said there's going to be a civil war in his pen Tommy Robinson's legal fees any probably has the most active widely distributed Media platform in the world if that's what you want to come to then we're all going to be given.

Ok, I just for the break in any normal week this will be the top story as Sky is eyeing up buying a TV broadcast arm.

That's the channels ITV X basically add funded part of the business.

I changed on Monday ITV said that they expected ad revenue this Christmas to be down at the next day this news break.

So why does Sky want it well that's an interesting question to take a step back.

I mean the break up of all potential breakup of ITV has been on the cards for a while now and ITV Studios its production division has been seen this sort of you know the Brides that's what people want to look at the seaside and basically all of the value can be attributed to the studio space and the broadcast this is almost I mean I think that that's only true that the growth area is ITV Studios I mean broadcasting in traditional advertising does Delta off quite a lot of cash, but it's a it's a decline in business in.

Streaming is not yet offsetting it so the question for the last 18 months to years is being well.

We know people interested in ITV Studios but who's going to want the rest of it sky and I think the the idea of there is to create a sort of UK streaming champions is how I heard it described so bring in i t y axis not insignificant user base into Sky you gain scale which in this Media environment is so important when you're playing against these major US companies and their you think she used ITV is what industry is going to the shop window.

So you can put Sky programming onto ITV onto the free to a bit and then hopefully Drive have people into the page description part of a Skies business and people die TV Becomes of skylight in in a way I suppose in and they are keen to point out that you know that.

Mean but they're going to put I'm a Celebrity behind a paywall there anything that be yet.

It's sort of it's the way of your own people in I suppose and sport is one area that point to I mean if your nose Sky Sport is the sky but ITV have the euros Six Nations rugby so I think people see that as a potential area of overlap, so I found a lot of the people on their content for a while for them out the years in the movies in teleological launching streaming services themselves to things like HBO Max coming to the coming to the UK that was all on Sky is this part of them trying to think how do we develop our business? I think so I mean that there was a period in which sky were really positioning themselves as this aggregator where the idea was that you know you have your subscription to Netflix you have your Amazon Prime Disney whatever it was but sky would be the home and you go through the app.

Accessories different things and I mean no I wouldn't I wouldn't sit here and say that failed, but I think it hasn't hasn't quite worked hours is the business sustainable business model so I think they're now yeah looking at new ways to kind of Reach retain audiences and I think you have the idea of other major UK commercial streaming players is one that's quite cleaning company owned by us company, when will I thought about this you the Murdoch own sky taking over a TV and that was an option of years ago when I saw the Virgin Media took over that the cable networks industry cost a lot of the commentary.

I saw that this was trying to this is perhaps.

Where ITV should live should ITV be a part of Sky then we do Karen and Jason interest ITV Studios an exact until euro.

I've had no inside information and other stuff going on the what I will say is that ITV the ITV broadcast I'm not tv.

Plc led by Carolyn McCall there's a very well run company.

They know what business are in they do it very well and it looks like being driven if the number in the papers is a number that the negotiations around it looks like they've given the TV in a very productive conversation.

I think we were maybe do better to talk about this is Chromecast rather than sky and where it fits in the comcast ecosystem to comcast NBC in America go to the son of ITV business subscale streaming platform, but you start to pull together sky peacock react to start to get some scale as a streaming product.

It's true free-to-air audiences are diminishing but ITV still has the biggest freeze where all the and see if they probably delivered over 90 at the 100 audience events last year if you're launching a product still and it's day-date time-sensitive.

ITV is Sword of the place that you go to an app that you can cross from out from your other platforms to ITV when we get to iptv and everything is delivered through the web then what sky can do there in terms of interfaces.

Prominence for ITV they'll have to give prominence to everybody but these at which ITV and sky we were even though you're moving between them may be at times so I can see what I would want to do it would make sense globally those big entities and buying free-to-air networks that I can see why TV would would be interested in using it as a mechanism to get to scout and other concerns advertising it would be probably 60 70% of the TV advertising market, but I'm sure they would argue that that is very broad now.

Also news provisioners interesting David commitment to Sky News for certain number of years which two or three years left on by the night and what happened to ITN ITV book day of the driving by also Channel 4 news channel 5 news ITV news and Skylander Fair Lady

Why do they good competitive scale provided for the and see if they would be the only question would be will there be enough diversity of voice within emerged news on for an iTV very different in town and take and five do they lose in a totally different way as well.

So these are these are things that people go to work through the other thing from a producer of one of you there if your buyers in the marketplace and I think producers are worried independent producers worried that they'll just be fewer people that you can sell to James do you think the government would waves through a deal think on media plurality? I'm not sure that would fall.

I think they would have to be to have commitments and there's that closely regulated market.

I think the big issue with the competition markets authority around as we said TV advertising and what they say right.

We're going to redefine it and so we're not going to get TV and we're going to look at you as a competitor.

Google is Matalan in that situation you are the minnows to by Frank the government be making the right noises.

It's already said that it's that it's open to to relaxing those rules of the summer.

So I think there would be you know optimism and confidence that that would get through on a competition grounds.

I think that's not Siri wouldn't be some backlash of in Channel 4 would be the big sticking point if you look at it for men for an ad sales perspective ITV have the biggest ad sales house in the UK that followed by Skype so together.

He said he'll be 69% of the market Channel 4 in 4th and 3rd place and that would leave them at High and Dry are so would they push for concessions sky giving up some business to Sky doesn't just said as soon as it's your dad's for the likes of Warner Brothers and paramount would have to give up.

I think that's that's a question.

Is that a big enough barrier to stop?

Probably not I'll probably want to support Channel 4 The broadcaster, they also Loggerheads see you and hear from podcast Discovery podcast marketing company where this week we're thinking about the future.

I'm coming to you from the Savoy where we've spent the day cooking up exciting new ideas for podcast promotion to find out what they are.

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They just opened up for brand-new studios in Shoreditch one has its own distinct look and feel weird.

Library this week if you haven't seen it go on YouTube and have a look and I can just seen those library shelves 17 volumes of how to fix the BBC broadcast quality video recording check it out at pork chop online.co.uk where they're offering 25% off your first booking for Media club viewers and listeners, so I have the website for shop online and use the code Media club for 25% What makes a great work culture turns out.

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Getting a spirit with Greene King pubs to find your nearest search Greene King London pubs, what about some stories we've been talking and club this week would have 11 million people watching I'm a Celebrity traitors final live on Thursday was never stable than the BBC would ring you the show which is what they build on Monday this week, but not the only one was paying that much attention of rumours that are so Robbie Gibb will be lined up have so far been on confirm Netflix is looking to commission original the apocalypse to support why did with Spotify at Bloomberg reports of the stream has been reaching out of Talent agencies are exclusive deals at once again.

Will shut out YouTube and speaking of YouTube at the platforms TV app has stripped of Disney brands since the end of October as the company's argue over carriage fees for ESPN and ABC around football fans have already miss to be games that since the dispute began.

Hold out the longest remember you can get all of the details of those stories on AO3 sub stack head to the media club.com to sign up to get our free newsletter on a Monday morning which reviews all of the topics that all of the other media podcast apparently.

There are some that have been talking about in the past week as well.

I go sign up for free at the media club.com quick one on YouTube you obviously we're in America and cable deals and getting carriage deals fastest-growing one Disney have got their own Hulu plus tv.

I think it's about a similar thing.

They always say this carries disputes.

This is a big change and they always do they going to do a deal.

I don't know I mean I mean I've been in there carriage just when I was at Discovery they're not pleasant on either side because as a network you see your money you hadn't.

Do you know why and you and people start trying other things so when you come back is suddenly you lost your audience.

I mean reading the statements from Disney they put out a statement all of their staff.

They basically said that YouTuber off terms which should be like the current deal and be like that and below the market and that YouTuber trying to push it all in the way of their model YouTube respond and say that basically Disney living in the past and the world is changing this time for them to catch up and change with it there dubbing ABC is pushing people to ESPN plus which please streaming product and also FUBU I think that required to support product to the platforms that they own and at the moment no one seems to be blinking you get a lot of ecosystem you I think this is a particularly interesting one because of what it says about the power Dino

YouTube coming in and saying well, you know where a player now then 10 million over take some of the average players.

I think there may be trying to set down The Gauntlet lilburn and say hello to change again until now they start paying see what happens.

Just not time for the audio networks dropping.

Let's see how much attention.

I guess I've been paying to the other media news this week and the game is called tiktok news SO3 Media stories connected by One theme and then shoehorned into the format of an existing Media property at this time.

We're looking at 3 developments concern tiktok, but I will convey the stories using the median of tiktok itself.

You just translate into something that 35 + is 1 stand who listens to get Alex audio network.

Producer Matt and create a playlist of tiktok inspired music to score today's game it is a best of 3 so buzzing with your names if you know the story so Pat you.

Pat that James will say let's play TiK ToK news.

I'm looking at split screen in the bottom half I can see some Minecraft gameplay in the top.

It's an apartment laughing then deck another on a British Airways flight for some reason this deal between you and this is a partnership at will see ads run alongside official ITV clips on tiktok and I guess you know by the cell to Brands is that this is a safe environment in the platform and for ITV it's it's a good way to monetize the audience is there which is obviously quite youtube-dl.

It sounds like you need number two bedroom a teenager is performing a cover.

Song I should know it had like 50 billion views or something tiktok music.

Yes put back down with heart by heart yesterday's to combine heart sort of radio platform with a number tiktok creators to create some sort of is it 25 and this is a parallel systems where the countries around the world.

That writes it someone doing a makeup.

I'm literally getting ready with them told but she's also talking about a murder as a mirror on the desk, but it's not a normal desk.

It's a true desk.

Yes, so this is I think the Daily Mail talking about putting true Crime at the front of bed to audio output.

I can I convert to now.

They rename a tiktok account and they also paying it to the front and center for podcasts which crime desk the male victims of crime and have always been a crime in newspapers, but more recently I mean the Daily Mail Today Lucy letby.

Siri is really popular.

They're trying to drive more people to let subscription services and make sense of true Crime James calculations first time like obviously you run the quiz.

Surprised you get to create an independent body the looks of the media club to decide whether it's virtually impossible to come back with report on that and also I thank you to an Alexa audio network for scoring today's quiz remember Alex my network can do that for you.

Just had to audionetwork.com work.

How can I find out about the British Broadcasting Tower broadcasting challenge.com I also do some stuff for the British Broadcasting challenge on my own substack which is Pat Young on the subject platform and will be involved at the moment in creating letters four members of the public to send to MPs to raise the concerned about the future of the babysitter.

Keep an eye on the website people find it work.

I can go into the pages of the main place.

If not I am still on Twitter / x so you can send me their excellent.

Thank you for listening and watching to mines digging the Producers Matt Hill it was a rethink audio production with the dears.

Broadcast Discovery I'll see you next week.

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