Read this: Manager of YouTube's Sidemen Jordan Schwarzenberger, BBC crisis latest, Ed Sheeran Netflix producer Ben Winston

Sounds music Radio podcasts hello, I'm Emma Barnett I've always wondered if we had more time does the story go for that what you do right now? This is it this defines Your Life by how little the medical Communities ever bothered with this is my new listen.

Hi, I'm Katie razzall and this is the media show from BBC Radio 4 hello and welcome.

No, do you remember this sooner England is rubbish?

Play on YouTube that was of course Adele with James Corden carpool karaoke 267 million use on YouTube and counting the man behind it is going to tell us about his latest venture a documentary with Ed Sheeran all shot in one take we'll talk about that and the company bent sound producers of the Gavin and Stacey Christmas Special the Late Late Show with James Corden the Kardashians and even the forthcoming 2028 Olympic opening ceremony, but first we are going and the crisis facing the BBC it is apologise to President Trump for an edit of his speech on January 6th 2021 the trump says he still plans to Sue The Corporation for between 1 and 5 million dollars to BBC says there is no basis for a defamation case this is all fall out from a lead internal memo that raise not just the Edit of that speech but also claimed.

Systemic BBC bias, it's a crisis that has claimed the director-general Tim Davie and the CEO of news Deborah Turness and it's not over yet because it's raising profound questions about the BBC's governance and the BBC's future and the first person we're going to talk to you today about it is Rosamund Urwin Media editor the Sunday Times hello wasn't let's not first with that possible lawsuit.

How do you assess the BBC's response and also whether there is agreement inside the BBC that this is the best approach when any news organisation is Sudan they think they're all about to be so time in the course trump hasn't actually farthest yet.

They need to push back hard.

I mean that that's the classic response to your lawyers will be very and so will executive working out the best way to respond now.

They're going to have a very strong response.

I think because no one in the US watch this.

He's Trump is suing in Florida

If you would actually be outside the one you claim for libel in the UK so it wouldn't be able to claim over here.

He won't it didn't damage his reputation already associated him.

Very heavily with January is 6 and he became president anyway, which exactly and they will say it wasn't him Alice and they also make it that America has incredibly strong free speech laws, so I think I think it's quite obvious even before it was really got what's going to be the response.

I mean I will speak to a point of view lawyers weekend when we had about publication and the consensus was he did not have a very strong case however.

He is Donald Trump he's very good at making life difficult for news organisations and we have seen number of the news organisation ABC CBS and internet on Facebook settle with Donald Trump is there a commercial dimension here then because obviously the BBC's made no secret of its.

In the US yes, clearly I mean that we know that America has been a big area of Focus expanding their you know there is a receptive audience.

I'm actually having very high steamy bastard as a big audience potentially there to grow and have caused Trump is good at potentially damaging people who want you know that media who wants to reach out.

I think it's going to see how how he plays it's because of course he can be effectively petit the Wall Street Journal was banned from being on Airforce One there a little ways.

He can he come back and you if the course isn't successful you can actually thinking do business either.

Don't give me any ideas, but there are things you can do to make my half the BBC in the US and so far we haven't seen any evidence of that but more broadly is a battle playing out over the reasons why the BBC is currently in this situation with my talking about that bit more later, but what is your reading of how this is being viewed in the media and in Westminster

Express is now I was very interesting as I was thinking about 2 past battles of the BBC's had and I usually with the government of the day but cos that's the opposite is the case the government to come around defending and he said he's not had a brilliant relationship with him dearly even on the day.

You know she's obviously I'm on the day that Tim Davie Angela resigning in the afternoon and she was defending with him that morning so I think it's interesting because it doesn't have that usual to mention where the fight is between the government of the day and the BBC what is he is a course.

There's a sort of split in the media where 1 half the media says this is an example of a sort of right-wing Who at the BBC where right-wing members of the board have been dominating things and they come out and got rid of effectively a director general and head of news by complaining about fire says you're a bias and then you've got the other side.

They will hang on a minute.

This is actually raising sister.

Issues and anything you need to fly and this isn't about a right-wing cool.

That's not the right way to look at this dude.

We're going to bring in Baroness tall now though to install is a former chair of the House of Lords communications and digital select committee former head of corporate affairs at the BBC and a conservative.

Thank you very much for joining us on the media.

Show me know thank you for coming on now you wrote an article in the Telegraph under the headline that BBC must change before it's too late and in that you details some of the ways that you think the BBC is going wrong you say it has an institutional blindspot and go on it's not that.

I don't think they are institutionally biased.

I think the situation is far worse than that tell us why describe it is an institutional blind spot.

This is probably because of one of the reasons that is just pointed to when people talk about bias.

I think it's quite.

Easy for that to get interpreted as a left right type problem and where is what I'm saying is that it? This is more seriously this is this is about the BBC not being able to see how is the stomach problem is is pushing some audience groups away in for some people it may be specific issues where they have felt very disappointed at being disrespected all their perspective being disrespected or not being sufficiently represented and did princess on the transsexual war on Gaza but I think more widely that the public who are also moving away from mainstream politics.

This is a much more and white bread fundamental problem and 4th.

Desi that the BBC isn't really anymore representing people like them and that's what the BBC can't see so he's very different ways.

It's not seeing it's feelings which I do think are you no more than just occasional mistakes that the Jam is willing to acknowledge that fundamental failure is pushing people away and what is happening with the BBC's unwillingness to acknowledge this problem.

It's losing at its moral authority.

I think it would have a great tomorrow authority if it and I think it was also put it in a much stronger position to be the solution to a divided society that it wants to be cleaned it easy at the moment.

It's not understanding.

It's part of the problem, but you describe a much broader shift in society.

Where some people see the political class as a whole is not representing them where some people see mainstream Media not.

You appear to be laying all of the consequences of that at the BBC's door perhaps the BBC may be doing the right things but it's called up in a broader shift in society and I don't think the BBC is alone in the way in which and some people feel frustrated with the media will disappear with political class and it's not it's not just the BBC that is at the root of all this problem for the BBC News 24 one is fat and the universal service at the National broadcaster.

We are all required to pay for it by the licence fee and it's it to exist it has got to have that our authority in the confidence of listen to you.

I'm thinking of any number of Public statements that Tim Davie the outgoing director-general has given where he talks about the Vital

Morton's of the BBC services being universal ways talked about the vital importance of hearing a range of perspectives of hearing content that caters for the whole country, where was evidence of why you think the BBC is not managing to do that in some quarters well if topics specifically the BBC is not sufficiently looking at a matter through a different lens, when we when we debated and examine the question of impartiality is changing a party political left right type and a context.

Where is now what I think what people said I feel increasingly.

There's just not the bigger picture being reflected.

So if you take as an example the most recent United Kingdom demonstration that occurred in London a few weeks ago.

Was a massive massive event thousands and thousands of people turned up and the BBC reports and other broadcast Focus initially on the Violet fog that were there and Tommy Robinson and others on the stage.

No, I'm not suggesting for one moment that part of that event should be ignored but then much bigger picture that was going on that day with the thousands and thousands of ordinary people who were not all there for Tommy Robinson but there to express themselves and what was refreshing with the following day on Sky News Trevor Phillips actually gave his perspective which was a refreshing because it was not what everybody else to say which was which was calendars when missing the main point of this which is that you lots of other people that you were just seeing the queue at the local.

That sort of what sort of thing you don't see in the hole here enough well.

I'm sure it BBC News would point to a range of coverage of that particular March and what event with the bloody but we should say we've asked BBC news or BBC more broadly to take part in today's program and they haven't however last week.

I did ask the BBC champions a shower about whether there was an ongoing problem with systemic bias inside the BBC its individual errors and their case and their issues with pt24 underlying problem.

That's the way out of characterising the notion of systemic bias, or excuse advise said something deeper and something for fun and I've worked in BBC News I know that the BBC News do culture is to be impartial is to provide the best news.

We can the most trustworthy news Rosa know if you just pick up some of the things that I was saying.

Rohan from the Sunday Times do her comments highlight the political challenge facing the BBC in a really difficult position a lot of these issues and it is an issue for the broader media.

I mean I think there was a lot of cross-media and you mentioned Transit she's having a good example where you know we didn't have a diversity of opinion immediate for a long time and he was at the height that they can match my sent to cover it for the paper and it is really challenging.

I should have I don't quite hard difficult covering a massive process is a as a journalist is actually one more challenging things we do because it's going on in front of you and it's at this very very difficult to get the right feel for it because you can beat her number of people Telegraph you wrote impartiality is not what it used to be so I just want to find me with you if you can outline how you think the BBC should approach being impartial.

Simple way, I can make the appointment make my point is that I think I have to constantly looking at one issue using looking at it through a different lens.

Not just from a different angle, and I think that with some issues likes other things with the sex and transgender think they have to acknowledge that the the problem with that was the position from which they started and that therefore makes it and they bring to everything that follows that kind of that kind of you.

I should say that on the 10th of November so I said on the review of sex and gender identity the editorial standards committee noted much of the coverage met the BBC standards of impartiality and accuracy of the categorisation of the BBC's approach to the issue that you use is not one that shared by the BBC we're going to leave their banner style.

Thank you very much indeed for joining us and I should just reiterate we are.

BBC to take part in today's program it declined and to put this in Context the BBC is an institution that amongst many other things 6 to hold people to account for their actions by interview hundreds of people degrees be interviewed by the BBC every day, but this crisis is over 2 weeks old and so far the BBC is granted a total of 1 interview on what's happening that was the one which case inducted with the chairs to me a shout 9 days ago beyond that no interviews on this story at all, but Katie the questions.

I'm going away not least for the chair absolutely he has lost to top executives on his watch.

Yeah, I do believe that in the end and baby.

Just felt that the pressure was too much on him person he decided to go but still not great for the chairman of the board to have ever seen that there was also the issue of how long it take for the BBC to react once the Telegraph study publishing it's stories about Panorama and a course without.

The white house then began to attack the BBC and there are concerns remaining more broadly about how the board is functioning and there are a lot of questions coming on Monday because I'm going to get there chance to speak to some of the main players in this story, so yes, this is what were waiting for.

I'm sure as mum will be glued as much as I will be at the culture media and sport committee will be hearing from the two former independent advisor to the BBC to the editorial standards and governance committee the standards committee and those include Michael Prescott who wrote The leaked memo that kept all this off so that in itself could be box office then return of chairman Samir Shah with board members so I'll be giving Caroline Thompson all the focus at the top of the BBC is going on preparing for that committee hearing and I think the quest the Champions ability to remain in his job is at the heart of all this of course he has a supporters, but the tone of the conversation inside the BBC I think has been shifting and there is certainly a that what time.

Lead to the departure of the director general as well as the CEO of news for the scrutiny is very much on him to that is coming on Monday and the media show we focused on the BBC's current crisis and how it works.

It's way out of it inevitably though a moment like this brings a range of questions about the BBC's future, what should the BBC aim to be in 5 or 10-years time? What kind of you see is actually possible and I'm delighted is a joining us here in the studio studio are Phil Riley is co-founder of boom radio and Jordan schwarzenberger is co-founder of arcade media and mass of the sidemens both have strong views on what the BBC's needs to do so fill that start with you.

You have said that the BBC is in denial and needs a period of quiet reflection if it were to do that seriously, what do you think should be top of the list well? I think the pickup at one point that the previous conversation the

He is under serving D&D audiences associated with DNA and I'll come and pick the BBC up on that and last year when do Radiohead it's running with the BBC about the new radio commercial radio lobbying against the radio stations the justification for them was this they were going to serve the de audience better and they're actually was no justification for that and the BBC service that does served in the audience is the best BBC local radio is being defunded all the time and I think that's just one more example of where the BBC's priority is not match those that they really need to have in order to serve all the audience is it that is trying to add a more general level what struck me about this process is had that been a commercial organisation where the board had seen this memo before it was lead.

It was obvious.

It was going to be late.

The board would surely have prepare.

Dramatic PR response two-headed off of the past and the fact that has been nothing apart from the one interview that you've done just says that they said must be a massive dysfunction the very top of the BBC because any normal organisation would have taken taken that memo crafted response graph that with the best PR expert read that as a breakdown between the board and the new side of things if you like the executive or how do you repot but I don't know but at the end of the day the book does stop with the chairman of the DJ at the Odeon we talked before we came on added me about how what a job the director generals who would want a job the job from Hell also the chairman of very very well the chairman job isn't quite so well paid at this is probably more difficult but they're just seems to be something at the very heart of the board that seems to be a miss because any will.

Well-functioning board would have tackle that head on and at the BBC has not talking to head on and what sort of governance.

What sort of leadership structures you think would give the BBC the credibility and he's right now.

Well.

I don't know somebody Shahi strikes me as a very very nice person.

I'm not sure whether being a very nice person is a quality that you need is the chairman of the BBC I need somebody is compared to a bit more Street smarts a bit more political smart about it.

So I think there is that there's a need for some change and strength at the top and there are some interesting people being talked about the director-general.

I think there's a there's a need for a I think a fresh start with three or four of the top jobs and you're a man who knows a lot about radio lots of love you very much.

Speak to radio and you have warned that BBC Radio can become an orphan asset in a stripped-down BBC what is your vision of how BBC Radio could survive and thrive in a future funding.

You know that your chance of a new list kicking off properly at the end of the year.

I think it's because of the seems to be a head of Steam to move to a to Division BBC Weather Corby see this funded by maybe a reduced licence fee and then a subscription division of the BBC that the picks up the the rest of what the BBC does and I thinking that model.

I'm not sure if costs outside of suspect Radio 3 Radio 4 with go in a core BBC model but I think the rest of the BBC Radio networks with find it difficult to be part of the core BBC and certainly welcome inside of subscription division because they don't bring any subscription money with them and I think they end up as openness and the answer that people that right columns in the Daily Mail and the Telegraph is well.

Let me tell you there.

Just isn't the advertising there to support them it I think it's a really critical moment for BBC Radio Jordan schwarzenberger ring you in hi there you are also.

Shy about sharing your thoughts on where the BBC is going right and going wrong.

What do you think should be its priorities if it's to reach not just some of the country but all of the country for I did an interview with the Guardian on the Wednesday all kicked off on a Sunday was on my phone cos I'm just gonna say it wasn't me, but I think this is a really big opportunity.

I'm looking at this is a quite exciting like commercially actually because I look at this as an entity that has a mass in meant audience but at the same time has this incredibly difficult if not impossible job of serving a broad Church I was very fortunate to have to be invited to do a keynote speech at the other content leaders day and I said to them.

It's going to be increasingly hard as gen Z becomes lost and I think the tax from what was once a unifying British identity right which the BBC used to represent as that sort of strips away.

I think it's placed to effectively microcultures and people who might relate with you know people across the world in different subcultures rather than that sense of British unity I think it's very hard with the car models of needs.

You know looking at the audio.

Big and the immense amount of content in the expertise that the team have how can I think look towards the next 10 years which isn't in my view a formal commercial model.

I don't and I know this is my last me and he's in his walls.

Don't think that the licence fee is sustainable for this changing culture because we've lost the centre.

I think that's what it's all points.

Do if you look at the voices in and you know that the talk around this whole issue.

It's on all sides.

Everyone's going from either one way or the other because the centre I think in this country has broken down as reflected literally and make sure that the BBC to survive in its current and some people might point to celebrity train to certain sporting events recently and other natural events which are evidence that it's certain points vast numbers across the country across Generations will still gravitate towards the BBC I mean that there's a saying which is the exception proves are alright.

I mean I will say with the traitors example amazing brilliant moment but you know you do about 10-years that was just standard like you had those moments all the time because we had this Monica which we had this.

Everyone gravitate to you had those water cooler moment sense of British unifying Entertainment and it's nice to have those flickering of the past with that but it's not the norm anymore, so help us understand then what you're suggesting a more centralised model for the BBC more commercial model but in practical terms.

What does that mean making content for lots of different platforms and putting subscription or advertising or sponsorship against being very unrealistic around linear the way that's going.

I think it's been more aggressive on on YouTube which is becoming the new pipe.

Whether we like it or not for Gen Z see as you know 33% of all streaming in the US if the biggest for being Netflix in the other so any more into that and also looking at iPlayer this immense acid which has you know actually won the biggest cohorts of younger audiences on there.

How can that became so it might be a subscription business cause a problem with all of this in my mind is a lack of accountability to the consumer because it's very difficult to service everybody if you're trying to please a Broadchurch racism or commercial direct model that I think modernised.

Listen to Morfa play which I think actually it has the chance to do at scale globally and represent Britain on the globalstep stages a result with a much healthier than ever think between the provider and the customer the Sunday Times bring you back in you're going to be covering charged for renewal of the next 202.

What do you think that? What do you think about the government thinking do you think they'll be listening to Jordan's do you think he is thoughts would be something that is being considered or but I think they're scared to do anything on it because and I said one day.

You'll have to remember is not just model for 2027.

We're talking about 12037 and completely different and decade I am scared of doing anything to change things brought.

I mean very briefly you know funding accidentally read it out.

So that's out we know that but they're saying they're open to all the different ideas.

I should say that other European countries have looked.

Model and decided to move away from it and recent years so Germany at move towards a household tax so they probably are afraid of having the word but there are other options beyond advertise a licence fee does outdated and as we discuss this when we think about all of the different types of content that BBC creates Phil do you think that it is realistic continue to bundle it because of course at the moment the BBC office everything in one go to everyone but do you think in time maybe radio needs to be treated as one entity or off platform digital content needs to be another I think you'll never going to get as much money in one pot as you currently get from the universal licence for any move away from that parcel subscription at funding all of those things are going to mean less money coming in which means to be received going to have to do less so I think that's that's the key.

Tim Montgomerie last week when you show said what I thought was the correct answer to this.

I'm afraid which is just don't do anything in terms of the licence fee for another round licence for another round sort out the management the leadership of the BBC to the most sensible at words that I heard last week on the what do you think the risks are if the BBC doesn't take the root your suggesting 1-year injections well, I mean 20378 a long time.

I think you look how far Media is gone it in my view it and I know you know radio is a good example of this changes par for the course is only going on way in terms of the way that you know Lily is going it really is going in it might be able to healthier correction because it brings it more in line with the future because you're holding entirely to subscriptions in and direct payments on in London with the licence fee.

Is it becomes a very negative conversations?

People from going rather than have to be really grow it and I think to grow in a increasingly fragmented country becomes untenable and I can't tell you how within 10 years of can survive that 21 understand.

There is here the BBC the things that you're suggesting puts an emphasis on technology pushes more content of platform to versifiers the the range of content offers, what would make it the BBC as opposed to simply a successful Media operation.

I think being the flag bearer for British creatures British entertainers for British news for you know what it's become Ronaldo around the world and look at go anywhere the BBC brand is so respected and I think it might be you have to charge a British culture as much as they can externally and internally but with healthy model.

Thank you very much indeed one last question for you Rosamund we're all having this conversation but in the more formal process of settling the BBC's how do politicians and the BBC get all of the different perspectives wear hearing what the process we have a white paper and then a green paper the right way round.

Yeah, so you have green paper at the word expect actually quite imminently really I mean they sorted with the end of the year and then possibly January and then but it will get quite solidified ac127 much faster than that this will be warned about this and previous in previous renewals.

They actually the process is much faster than resetting stone from late night yet or through thank you very much and do that lodgement media editor of the Sunday Times feel really co-founder of being radio and Jordan schwarzenberger co-founder of Arcadia media and manager of the sidemen now before we end we're going to turn to a man whose company is behind some of the biggest hits on TV on both sides of the Atlantic think the Kardashians Top Boy the late show with James Corden and who can forget the Gavin and Stacey Christmas Special + major live televised events including the grammys and it's recently been announced for 2028.

Opening and closing ceremonies in Los Angeles is an executive producer and one of the founding partners of Fulwell entertainment and their latest project is a Netflix documentary once with Ed Sheeran that is of course Ed Sheeran when he won't be joining us today, but we do I'm delighted to say have Ben Winston from Los Angeles hello Ben hello guys.

How are you? What pleasure to be here that you are here? We're thrilled.

Let's just talk about that documentary first.

Cos I know you've teamed up with the Adolescents director Philip barantini for the documentary is filmed in one continuous shot.

Just like adolescence was was it your team or hear that suggested colouring Ed Sheeran around New York in that way and why use that device here for a while love Ed and obviously have a new album out.

Call Ed to discuss things actually have a phone so you have to email him and then hope he facetimes you back at some point which is what happened and I said you would you be open to some ideas.

He was like sure have a think Andy Murray James sat together and there he suggested this one shot.

I did I want to be done in adolescence if we done a student in movies never seen them done in the Unscripted format so we should have put him straight back and said listened bed.

We got this idea and then I was that you'll be grateful to find a director somebody like the guy who did adolescence and managed to find Phil's number within half an hour pitched inside he was on board and so good contacts, but then I have to say it he had his number so I texted I do so I managed to get hold of him and we develop this idea and it's out this Friday website about it and one of the logistics of filming it in that way.

Yeah, I mean I literally we could take a whole podcast.

It's it's it's one of the most ambitious things we've ever done.

It's entirely truthful.

It really is in one take he starts in an empty Theatre doing a soundcheck he goes out the back and then he can tick on a journey around New York he is the subway taxes are open top bus at all real things with real people he surprises a birthday party.

He helps a man supposed his girlfriend he singing 16/17 of hits as he goes along we have lots of cranes and go to the top of the hotel and we go with him in the left and then we sort of attach it to a detached the camera drone and it meets him down the other side.

It was hugely ambitious thing each location had its own production team that we would handead to and me and you in the back of a balloon selling van that you can see quite a lot sadly in the back of shot with our headphones on and monitors being incredibly nervous that this was gonna go wrong.

Full well, yeah, I know you work with Ed Sheeran on the documentary before also so many of the big names Usain Bolt Sam Smith One Direction you bought the cast of Friends back together for friends reunion, you have been described as the go-to production house for a list Talent how do you get access to them is it card only be through James Corden's contacts that are they are friends is building up Trust how we do it? I think we work really hard and we come up with really good ideas and we don't worry about what we like.

I think that the relationship's we had the years.

We've never been a company that is in 1 genera and I think the majority of companies are either documentaries or they live or their scripted and I think all the live entertainment whatever it might be and we've always like doing multiple genres and see what that means is a talent can come to us and we could picture documentary here.

We could do a live music special there.

We could do a scripted show with them here and I think that.

Stop defining a genre Fulwell has been incredibly helpful and then I think we we we really try and understand the person that we working with and try and sort of work out.

What would be the best way for them to be reflected and I hope they all feel safe and trusted with us which is why we've very lucky to work with the people that we do and one of the things that we talked about quite a bit on the media over the years is the growthink and a self-produced documentaries or co-production with famous people in recent years.

I wonder when it comes to you and the people you work with what level of editorial independence you have in your document to do you ever give guarantees two contributors, but they what's the name of the site of is there anything like that? Yeah, it's entirely depends on the show that we're making we're in a long-term deal with the Kardashians with work with the family since they moved to Disney I'm going to put anything in the show that they really hate that we're just not that great Partners in that they know what we want and will often have discussions.

I will fight for seems and to be fair to them that.

Win and now you're right that I don't love it, but it does make good TV and you can take it and then another time they say I just really don't feel comfortable with that and we're not in the got your business.

I'm not making use documentaries.

I'm not making Mama I'm making I love the fact that we at 4 well make big broad entertainment shows whether it be the opening ceremony of the Olympics or Ed Sheeran this week the families can watch together.

We just a wicked special the sky last weekend.

I love the idea that people can watch with their kids and it's big broad viewing so if that means that Ariana and Cynthia look at the wicked special and they go I didn't love it when I said that line.

I'm going to go cool.

Take it out and I think that's a trust that you develop over the years with Talent well, if you do push for something they will often back down because they trust you to make the best as well.

I came to you but also yeah like I don't need to score any points by putting a scene in The War damage relationships for the future, because that's not the one we are in the Studio with Katie and you are you mentioned James Corden already got

You about producing the Late Late Show with James Corden around from 2015 to 2023 I wanted to take us back into the room where you got the commission and you're approaching the launch of the of the show with James how do you approach Snapchat in particular as he wasn't that well known in the states that time yeah, I know you really wasn't and I think interestingly what at the time.

I remember.

We thought the biggest problem would be he's not well known because if you think about late night in America either people come from The Daily Show Samantha by John Oliver John Stewart Trevor Noah they started the day shall come from the Lorne Michaels SNL the the the fallons in the Seth Meyers SNL being Saturday Night Live Saturday Night Live screen soup and so James was a total unknown out there and I actually think that ended up being a secret sauce in a way because people expected him to be this beginner.

No, he's I don't know him.

You know we'll get to know him over the years would have caused actually had has 10000 hours over the years and turned up and was outstanding from day one that was a huge it but of course you had this breakout hit from within it carpool karaoke did you realise from the off that it could become as important as popular as it did you never realised something is going to be watched by 300-400 million people when you're making something like that's not what you that's not the way it works, but I would say we put it in show to so is in the set we could probably 2000 plate shows our first ever carpool was in episode 2 and ironically the only reason we thought of it was cos we couldn't book anybody to come on our Show with a brand new show and no one would come on so the way we conquered that was he said what about if we come to you? You don't even need to leave with you.

Need to go to a junk.

It will come to your house will pick you up will take you a spin for 15-minutes and then we'll drop you back home and Mariah Carey God bless.

I don't think she knew what was happening but her publicist when sure go pick Maria up.

We need to promote them and she got in the car and you can see if you watch that first one back when James turns on the radio are not singing today honey.

No no and actually there.

She is she starts singing within a day at about 15 million hits her album rock to the top of the charts and we had a hit on our hand and that is the digital age that we living in and that's the age that will continue to try make hits with him and better the backstories your company so fantastic because you know you co-founded it with various friends and then James Corden came in later some years you've been so big in Hollywood but the company does also have offices in the UK and your behind your big new studio pans in Sunderland I know the government has put money into a major investor that isn't it? Just can you tell us the latest on that because it you know everyone has been very excited about the idea of you know big investment into the Sunderland area yeah, and we still we still incredibly hopeful of that happening.

Forward with the project.

I don't have a huge amount to say right now on that project but over time we will but I think the UK's always been our home.

You know I head office Islington we have offices in Sunderland and yes, I'm based in Los Angeles but the UK has always been the centre of our of our business and will continue to be and and and we love making shows there so so will continue to do so confused links to the UK not least through Arsenal I know you were recently announced the joining the board of Arsenal obviously the Premier League is one of Britain's best global brands.

You could say I was in when I saw your point asking you ok? How's it going to be? What are you going to be bringing in terms of his perspective to the club? Do you have an entertainment strategy planned for Arsenal is it going to be behind the scenes documentary or have you got bigger plans? Well, of course? I have got entertainment background for sure but I'd say the more important background on my appointment Arsenal is I've been at sea.

Since I was 8 years old during my teams.

I think there wasn't a year there was about 10 years.

I didn't miss a European away game.

I've been obsessed with Arsenal my entire life.

I'm sat here right now with my arsenal.mug and listen.

I went when The Krankies asked me to sit on the board.

It was one of the most incredible thing.

I've ever been asked to do but I think the wool comes from understanding Football Club understanding of fanbase having grown up around the club and care passionately about the club having managed to find The Krankies phone number 7 years ago and been bombarding and will call you when I've got something to say for an occasionally they take the cooling occasionally they wouldn't but that was at least they gave me a voice and very surprisingly out the blue.

They asked me to join the board recently but I don't think it's necessary just about the me a side of things.

I think it's about having somebody who was born and raised around this Football Club who cares passionately and deeply about everything from the catering in the stadium 20-22.

To the players on the pitch and so I'm excited to have a fan on the board and representing the fan base and I think that's why I'm there and if I can bring some entertainment elements to it.

Then great.

We have a minute and a half left then.

I've got to ask you about the Olympics I know you're involved in the production of the turnover from Paris to LA but you're also involved in the production of the opening and closing ceremonies.

How does the pressure of being involved on that kind of scale compared with other work that you've done.

Yeah, I feel pressure on that one.

I don't know what to say other than yes.

I feel blessed yesterday.

I spent the day going to the stadiums where the opening and closing will be an out of The Voice nature of it in trying to imagine with just over 1000 days to go how we going to make a spectacular ceremony, but I feel really honoured that they've asked for Welwyn me to do it.

And as long as a 5 carats in feel like that's what I would love in 6 years time and then I could just think about it and just be the guy he's going to do it rather than actually have to do the work now is the work starting because you actually with these ceremonies you build such big things that need months and months to build it.

So so busy working on it and if you got any ideas.

I'll send them over but I'm open to anything over soon Ben Winston thank you so much Sally with the time.

Thank you very much for coming on the programme to burn one shot with Ed Sheeran is out on the 21st of November on Netflix and that is it for this edition of the media show thanks for listening.

Bye.

Bye.

I'm writing O'Connor from BBC Radio 4 and The History podcast this is the Magnificent O'Connor's.

In war-torn, London a man is murdered the police arrest 23 year old Jimmy O'Connor he sentenced to death but Jimmy is my for 80 years my family is for to prove his innocence and now we're making one final attempt to uncover the truth, but are we ready for what we'll find the Magnificent O'Connors listen first on BBC sounds.